EGLI frame, TR1 engine, build from scratch

Loek, that looks great...I hate you! hahaha (joking mate!)

I'm not doing a conversion at the moment but I've done some before using the Megasquirt controller in a couple of cars. As for differences in power delivery, oh my it's a completely different experience.

Before even adjusting the maps (both fuel and ignition) simply the default basic maps I noted that the car started very crisply and the idle was stone steady. Again, before adjusting the maps, the throttle response was notably improved over the previous carburetor system. After a long afternoon on the dyno playing with the mapping we ended up with around 30ft-lb over stock output from a more or less stock 2.4l Toyota 22r.

The Neon on the other hand netted something more like 60ftlb from a 2l with loads of work. It's ported, has a pretty crazy cam, high compression pistons and a very good ignition. I changed from a 49mm throttle body to a 70mm in a fabricated plenum and a merged header with 1.5"x36" primaries.

Basically the more work you do to the engine the more you'll get out of the EFI. In addition to simply better running and more output the 'nature' of the engine changed. I raised the rev limiter to 9000rpm, added traction control in the first 3 gears; 2000lb front wheel drive cars with 200ftlb spin the tires a lot haha. It also allowed me to totally cut fuel on decel which actually netted me a couple mpg improvement too! Other things you can do with the myriad of outputs; multi-stage shift lights, window switching for things like NO2, boost control for turbos and superchargers.

The 'MicroSquirt' unit is more suited to bikes, and like the Mega is totally open source meaning you can tweek the unit to do almost anything you need on a bike. Very cool! I think it's just got less outputs and a few less features due to smaller packaging.

This is the plan for my 920 engine (at the moment)
-Crank, rods, cylinders and heads from a V-star 1100: Lighter than the 920 crank by 6lbs, before any lightening work! The rods have been verified to be stronger than our earlier pieces. The combustion chambers are slightly updated though I'm tempted to weld them up and remachine for a more bathtub shape, the ports are updated and are a great starting point for my port work and the cooling fins are much larger on the V-star parts too.

-11 to 1 compression JE pistons with slip coating on the skirts and ceramic domes. If i can get the combustion chambers and ports clean enough I'll have them ceramic coated too.

-I'm looking at several cam options but haven't settled yet on the grind. Ultimately I'll rework the initial static compression of the pistons (by machining the domes) to suit the cams.

-Since I'll have control of the ignition mapping, the actual ignition driver can simply be a simple powerful system. I'll likely use coil on plug system with the appropriate voltage drivers triggered by the EFI controller.

-50mm throttle bodies from a Buell something or other, though I've also got a set from a TL1000r and a Honda 996.

-2 into 1 exhaust with 45mm x~32" primaries and a 60mm collector. My routing choices all require pipe wrap which I'm fine with as I'll be able to laugh at the plods who will gripe. haha.

So...more than you asked for but I hope it helps...

In short, EFI is really hard to beat.
 
Loekm -

Wonderful, thank you very much for the bearing information, my mind is at ease!

I'm not familiar with the TR1 engine, but it looks remarkably similar to the Virago (xv750) save for the chain drive. What was your motivation for using the engine aside from the low end torque of a v-twin?

Looks great, keep it up!
 
Maybe you can't port but I can.

I will run whatever throttle bodies suit the end result of my particular engine development, to the point of machining my own if need dictate.
 
Swivel, the size and makeup of the head doesn't matter. There are gains to be had with EFI due to it's superior mixing ability. It gives real time adjustments to the air fuel ratio based on situations happening inside the engine and atmospheric inconsistencies. Carbys are set and run.
Anything else you throw into the argument is invalid. Put simply, for efficiency of air fuel mix ratios accross all temperature and atmospheric variables, carbys just cannot compete with EFI.
And for the record, nowhere did Swagger say to use "massive" throttle bodies. I read from what he said that they should be balanced to whatever engine modifications are performed... or maybe that's just me....
 
[list type=decimal]
[*]I do hope you give better attention do detail with your bikes than you do replying to a thread as it was I, not Swagger who you were quoting.
[*]I am not going to continue to hijack this good man's thread over a debate about something as trivial as whether blue cheese or gouda is better. This is especially not going to happen if you choose to cherrypick quotes you don't like without looking at them contextually.
[/list]

Good day, sir.

/hijack
 
Good evening gentlemen,

Hhmmmm... There is a lot to be discussed about the EFI stuff, that's for sure. My opinion is that it's worth a special thread on this forum 8). But thanks for the info all of you! I'll try and read myself into it and start the thread when ready to go!

Back to buisiness!

@Swagger:
Your plan sounds wicked! I'm not going that far for sure, I'll leave the engine stock and get the EFI running first, maybe XV750 heads (more compression) later on. I'm planning a 40mm exhaust system on this engine, so carbs need some tweeks for sure. But carbs are all black magic to me so gonna trust the motorcycle shop in this one (the guy runs a classic racing team, and has a dyno ;)). The EFI system is going on the spare engine that I'm using now to build the frame. If the EFI bumps the horses a bit I'm totally happy, a bit better gasresponse is what I'm aiming for.

@Coopersmithingco:
Nice! happy to answer your question. The sheet I posted is from the SKF website, when you register there, you can download all this info and all the bearings directly in CAD. It helped me a lot for sure.

About the TR1 engine. It is the same thing as the XV750 you mentioned. Only chain drive instead of shaft and 981cc instead of 750. I choose thisone becaus I like the character of a twin. I looked into a lot of engine options, and thisone came out on top. It,s quite cheap (spare engine with blown head gasket €35), has reasonable power, chain drive, air cooled and I like the looks. Only disadvantage.... IT WEIGHS A MILLION POUNDS :eek:

@Swivel:
Thanks for watching this close! The angle of the picture is a bit strange when i look at it again. But the wheelbase is right (+/- 30mm). Good remark about the ride height, the wheels are in this position when the suspension is totally stretched... when the bike is on it's wheels it will be lower en when I'm on even lower. But because i'm quite tall (1,92m) a bit of ride height is OK :)

About the engine position... I planned it this way (but i'ts a bit of a gamble) because the engine weighs roughly the same as I do. So I hope weight distribution will be OK when finished. I'll keep you informed :)

@Staffy:
I'm planning throttle boddies of a BMW GS-something. that kind of engine has sort of the same character. Big displacement, relative low power output, MASSIVE torque. And the goods are for sale everywhere.

Phew... that's it for now, thanks again for all the comments.

Best regards,

Loek
 
Loekm,

Do you know the weight of that engine? I'm looking for a powerplant to go with a superlight spine frame I've been designing for some time now. It has a few similar elements to the Egli in that it gets a majority of the strength from the backbone. Here's a cross-section of the tubing I'm using: http://www.coopersmithingco.com/quick/tubingstraight.jpg

I'm looking at the total weight of the frame to be 18lbs (8.16kg) or less, but I won't know for sure until the prototype is finished (I don't have CAD). By the way, what size of tubing are you using for the backbone and what wall thickness?

Thanks again!
 
Loek - still in awe of your skills and facilities 8) - however................

I've seen ref: to the fitting of 750 heads several times now - the quoted reason "to raise compression".

That I can understand, but why trade off for the significantly smaller valves in the 750 heads ? Especially if you are going to use larger bore pipes. Surely simply skimming the heads 10 thou or so will give you the desired raise in CR whilst retaining larger valves ? The Bob Works bike quoted a CR of 10:1 with a 10thou skim. Convince me !! ;)

I'm afraid I'm a complete Luddite when it comes to anything modern - PC's, mobile phones, ...........fuel injection. And even though I have seen for myself the advantages FI can bring, I don't have the will to set about learning a whole new skill.

You guys who have the ability to simply "plug in a lap top" and play any tune you want is way beyond me.
 
Hey Gentlemen!

Back from vacation.... so time for the bike again :) Started construction on the swing arm. Made some measurements for dimensions. Grounded the fabricated parts to right dimensions and tacked it all together. Then made som drawings for the sheetmetal reinforcements of the swing arm and send them away to be lasercut. Finally made some new excenter aluminum pieces for ajustment to the swing arm angle, the ones made earlier were a bit to much "off center" wich was bad for bearing construction.... Next thing, finish the swingarm, then front end.

That means making a new steering pin for the triple clamps and aluminium pieces that hold the bearings in place in the steel steering head.

Hopefully the bike is on its wheels within a few weeks ;D

Pictures:

Swing arm in place for tacking the welds:
IMG_0103.jpg


And again:
IMG_0104.jpg


And check the wheel for the sheetmetal reinforcement:
IMG_0106.jpg


That's it for now, next construction day this weekend :)

Best regards,

Loek
 
Very nice work Loek! I'm not sure how I missed it but I'm hear to watch and maybe learn something.
 
Probably my favorite build on here right now, excellent work. Envious of the equipment you have available!
 
Missed this before, but I'm following now for sure. Can't wait to see how it all shakes out.
 
loekm, I keep asking Egli questions my ignorance of the marque is showing. Your swinger is looking every bit as precision built as the rest, my question, is that the same style of design as the Egli chassis uses or your original? Top drawer alright.
Cheers, 50gary
 
Such nice looking work! I have yet to track down a decent local source for oval tubing.....
 
Gentlemen,

Thanks for the compliments... Very cool you guys keep watching the build and comment!

@50Gary: I watched a few other build around the internet very close the last 2 years... and what i'm building now is somehow a combination off the different builds. So I don't know if the flat oval tubing is EGLI original or not. I just like the looks of it... good combination between rectangular and round.... 8)

@Swagger: I think sourcing parts is sometimes quite difficult. I find myself in the absolute luxury that i'm allowed to use the workshop at work and given that, I can source all the materials with the big "industrial" suppliers.... and I can tell you, it makes a hell of a difference. All my luxury situation brings more respect for the builds people finish in their sheds or garage!!

The weekend will be construction time again ;D so updates will be coming sunday.

Best regards,

Loek
 
Gentlemen,

Just a speedy picture update.... because it's worktime ;D

Swing arm with paper reinforcements:
IMG_0113.JPG


First steering head insert:
IMG_0118.JPG


Milling the other side of steering head level to top:
IMG_0119.JPG


Swing arm now with lasercut steel reinforcements ;D:
DSC_3803.JPG


Finished steering head with fork:
DSC_3801.JPG


Frame with front side and back side "complete":
DSC_3806.JPG


Explanation will soon follow, because not everything went perfectly smooth...

Best regards,

Loek
 
Very nice indeed. It will be interesting to hear your explanation, looks good from here?
Cheers, 50gary
 
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