Yamaha RD Startup
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my bikes up for BOTM 
yiiihaaa!
today i checked the oil pump again,made a little video of that-
oozes out nicely on both sides.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YarUTqFqP7s
and another one how she sounded
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKnMbaRlcoM
yiiihaaa!today i checked the oil pump again,made a little video of that-
oozes out nicely on both sides.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YarUTqFqP7s
and another one how she sounded
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKnMbaRlcoM
So i spooled a lot of kilometres the last weeks and started adjusting my carbs.
Firstly i raised the needle (dropping the clip from 2nd to 3rd from top position) in order to let it run a bit richer,cuz it surged a little at decelatering.
Now i have the problem that it trough this adjustement when i approach a traffic light and brake the motor sometimes just dies.
My guess is that running rich,turning the air screw out a bit would help with the problem.
I turned both it about 1/4 out,helped a bit,but this issue is still there mostly when the motor is hot.
Should i turn the air screw more out cuz i still lack air in the mixture?
Firstly i raised the needle (dropping the clip from 2nd to 3rd from top position) in order to let it run a bit richer,cuz it surged a little at decelatering.
Now i have the problem that it trough this adjustement when i approach a traffic light and brake the motor sometimes just dies.
My guess is that running rich,turning the air screw out a bit would help with the problem.
I turned both it about 1/4 out,helped a bit,but this issue is still there mostly when the motor is hot.
Should i turn the air screw more out cuz i still lack air in the mixture?
Attachments
Haha thank you xb!it is the last of the aircooled RD's,it has CDI ignition,so you can rule that one out.
Come to austria then you can have a ride
Come to austria then you can have a ride
crazypj
Split personality, I fake being smart
Just because it's CDI, don't assume it's correct.
I forget exactly how it's adjusted (haven't done one since 1980~) but it can be set 'perfect' to get a little more performance/reliability
Also, that isn't how you check oil pump, it shows pump is working though.
You have set cable adjusters to correct positions so pump 'pyramid' lines up with cam bar at 3/4 throttle plus checked stroke of pump? (many were/are wrong)
I forget exactly how it's adjusted (haven't done one since 1980~) but it can be set 'perfect' to get a little more performance/reliability
Also, that isn't how you check oil pump, it shows pump is working though.
You have set cable adjusters to correct positions so pump 'pyramid' lines up with cam bar at 3/4 throttle plus checked stroke of pump? (many were/are wrong)
crazypj said:
Theres only one way to CDI on this bike.The crank has a keyed end where the slotted spinning wheel is mounted.there is a mark on the spinning wheel and on the side case showing F which was aligned perfectly.
oil pump is also checked and aligned.there is a mark on the excentric disk which should align when at full throttle,it does.
yesterday i took it again for a ride and found out:
when the bike gets hot the problem arises.when i come to a traffic light and brake and pull the clutch the motor goes down to 1K revolutions and then slowly goes up the 1.5K...sometimes it dies.
when i switched off the headlight,then problem was solved....
Pretty interesting. The points/condenser fired Rd's here in the US often do this if either the mechanical voltage regulator is not perfectly adjusted or a larger than stock headlight is used (or anything else is done that uses even a little bit more power than normal). Seems like once really hot, and waiting at a long traffic light there is just not quite enough juice to keep it idling. Turn off the headlight and never a problem. The stock 3 phase alternator is pretty weak at idle, and evidently the electrical consumption weakens the battery just enough that combined with the hot coils and engine there is just not enough to keep sparks going once all the conditions are right. I realize that your newer euro spec bike has a permanent magnet rotor and CDI, but sounds like similar behavior. My own 350 that is my daily driver has this behavior, but I have not taken the time to really investigate it. I have noticed that if I charge the battery in the shop - it's an AGM,- I can ride a full day plus without this happening, but eventually the issue returns. So I have adjusted to turning off the headlight if I have to wait for a long light, or just keep the revs up a bit manually. Interestingly, I have built a couple of RD's with Yamaha CDI ignitions from Banshee four wheelers which look exactly like your stock system. They have NO battery at all, and the "charging system is more or less independent of the ignition, but will keep the engine idling indefinitely. One of these projects was a bike of my own, so I have a lot of riding experience with it, and despite 34mm carbs which are not exactly good for idle, it never stalls or fouls plugs. So it is surprising to see similar symptoms to a points fired version in a CDI version which has performed so excellently for me. I have a customer (with the other CDI 'd RD) that will start his bike and let it sit there hot and idling while he drinks a beer, and it NEVER dies! Perhaps the battery included version on your bike is more unlike the off-road unit I am using than I suppose.
I have had ignition coils on all manner of engines misbehave when hot, but usually they simply quit altogether until cooled off when they seem to work normally again. Very hard to troubleshoot, and my luck has provided these failures mostly on boats - no doubt to provide the maximum inconvenience!
My driver is totally stock aside from the headlight, the battery, and the cylinder heads. Based on behavior, the higher power headlight is the issue, but I have not checked the charging system since I am too lazy as the bike works fine with a little help monitoring the headlight!
I have had ignition coils on all manner of engines misbehave when hot, but usually they simply quit altogether until cooled off when they seem to work normally again. Very hard to troubleshoot, and my luck has provided these failures mostly on boats - no doubt to provide the maximum inconvenience!
My driver is totally stock aside from the headlight, the battery, and the cylinder heads. Based on behavior, the higher power headlight is the issue, but I have not checked the charging system since I am too lazy as the bike works fine with a little help monitoring the headlight!
I'm with crazypj on the accuracy of the non-adjustable ignition - you have to check it to know for sure. That said, in the main, RD's idle and start quite well with ignition timing that is surprisingly way off, so that would not be the first thing I would think about. It is however as a matter of course, worth determining where the timing actually is. This is not too dreadfully hard, but you do have to put your own marks on the rotor (assuming it is like a Banshee) and use a strobe light to check the timing and advance dynamically. Also, the ones I have personally looked at were very close to correct (though my sample is small and not your bike). Regardless, I think your timing in not the issue keeping in mind the preceding statements.
Regarding the oil pump, I have never attempted to document the oil delivery in any repeatable way. I look at it like this: Assuming the viscosity of the oil is close to what the Yamaha engineers wanted, (which I believe to be a reasonable expectation- there is an SAE spec), The pump, being a positive displacement device synced with engine speed pretty much has to meter oil at a reliable rate assuming there are no obvious restrictions. The only adjustment is the amount of throw the piston has, which is determined by the shims, and cam rotation provided by the throttle, which are either fixed (shim) or unlikely to come very far out of adjustment (unless the cable breaks). So the most important test is in fact to physically look to see if oil is pumping out of the injector lines at their termination where they connect to the intake air stream. If oil is pumping out there like you expect, and the cam and shims are what they should be, than you can be pretty sure all is well. Your oil volume looks good in the video, but it pays to check both lines; your bike would have seized by now if the other oil pump line was restricted, so surely all is well. If you want more oil volume over all, you can reduce the shim thickness. If you want to change the volume as compared to throttle opening, you can adjust the cable. If your ignition is very strong, fouling plugs should not be an issue - I run a LOT more oil than the manual specs and never foul plugs - even with points. Point is, the oil volume is almost certainly not related to your stalling issue.
Regarding the oil pump, I have never attempted to document the oil delivery in any repeatable way. I look at it like this: Assuming the viscosity of the oil is close to what the Yamaha engineers wanted, (which I believe to be a reasonable expectation- there is an SAE spec), The pump, being a positive displacement device synced with engine speed pretty much has to meter oil at a reliable rate assuming there are no obvious restrictions. The only adjustment is the amount of throw the piston has, which is determined by the shims, and cam rotation provided by the throttle, which are either fixed (shim) or unlikely to come very far out of adjustment (unless the cable breaks). So the most important test is in fact to physically look to see if oil is pumping out of the injector lines at their termination where they connect to the intake air stream. If oil is pumping out there like you expect, and the cam and shims are what they should be, than you can be pretty sure all is well. Your oil volume looks good in the video, but it pays to check both lines; your bike would have seized by now if the other oil pump line was restricted, so surely all is well. If you want more oil volume over all, you can reduce the shim thickness. If you want to change the volume as compared to throttle opening, you can adjust the cable. If your ignition is very strong, fouling plugs should not be an issue - I run a LOT more oil than the manual specs and never foul plugs - even with points. Point is, the oil volume is almost certainly not related to your stalling issue.
crazypj
Split personality, I fake being smart
CDI is always 'close' but when racing RD's timing needs to be spot on at max rpm
If you've never re-built and shimmed an oil pump for correct stroke, it actually isn't too difficult
You will get more power when everthing is set up 'by the book' (although timing isn't ;D )
I forget exact amount BTDC, use a Suzuki DTI set down plug hole 8) (I still have one somewhere, buzz box got broken years ago though )
If you've never re-built and shimmed an oil pump for correct stroke, it actually isn't too difficult
You will get more power when everthing is set up 'by the book' (although timing isn't ;D )
I forget exact amount BTDC, use a Suzuki DTI set down plug hole 8) (I still have one somewhere, buzz box got broken years ago though
)
Thanks guys for the insight.
When i made the video to check the oil pump i checked both lines,there were both oozing out the same on both sides.
I nearly rode now 200 km with the fresh engine,the last 60 km i rode it in pretty hard without any noticeable performance or riding difficulties.
I will have a friend come by next week,he is a formula 3000 engineer and he will check my ignition.
I checked again on the headlight stalling issue and it proved to be right.
Driving to traffic lights,pulling the clutch and braking,the motor goes down to 1K revs and needs about 5 seconds to get back up to idling 1,5K.
I m really astonished about the power this thing puts out around 5-7 K,pulls like a diesel truck
Interestingly the bike is super easy to start when cold,now at the warm temps even without the choke.
When the engine gets hot and i stop and start it it needs a little throttle (just a blimp) while i start,it needs air (running rich) i guess.
When i made the video to check the oil pump i checked both lines,there were both oozing out the same on both sides.
I nearly rode now 200 km with the fresh engine,the last 60 km i rode it in pretty hard without any noticeable performance or riding difficulties.
I will have a friend come by next week,he is a formula 3000 engineer and he will check my ignition.
I checked again on the headlight stalling issue and it proved to be right.
Driving to traffic lights,pulling the clutch and braking,the motor goes down to 1K revs and needs about 5 seconds to get back up to idling 1,5K.
I m really astonished about the power this thing puts out around 5-7 K,pulls like a diesel truck
Interestingly the bike is super easy to start when cold,now at the warm temps even without the choke.
When the engine gets hot and i stop and start it it needs a little throttle (just a blimp) while i start,it needs air (running rich) i guess.
crazypj
Split personality, I fake being smart
Hi, response to your questions on the selling section about VM30's
Those particular carbs are designed for piston ported two stroke motors.
With reed valve motor it would be better to use the emulsion tunes you have in the 26mm carbs. (they do fit and work properly)
You can also modify the primary choke 'hoods' to change fueling characteristics
Only problem I found with RD400, expansion chamers and 32~34mm carbs, steering is way too light, it's real difficult to steer with front wheel 18"in the air (18" is about 450mm, just in case you don't do 'Imperial measurements' )
30mm should be slightly tamer, that size carb will support around 40+bhp per cylinder, with the 'right' exhaust and some porting, 75~80bhp is pretty easy to get
Motor doesn't last as long though, needs frequent piston ring and piston changing, pistons every second set of rings (about 350~500km)
Modified stock reed blocks work better than just about any aftermarket set, it just takes a bunch of time to get everything flowing properly and can only be done by hand with files and emery paper 8) (I've tried die grinders, carbide burrs, etc, not much use)
I'm not sure just how much you can do, I've heard the TUV inspection is really strict on non standard parts?
Those particular carbs are designed for piston ported two stroke motors.
With reed valve motor it would be better to use the emulsion tunes you have in the 26mm carbs. (they do fit and work properly)
You can also modify the primary choke 'hoods' to change fueling characteristics
Only problem I found with RD400, expansion chamers and 32~34mm carbs, steering is way too light, it's real difficult to steer with front wheel 18"in the air (18" is about 450mm, just in case you don't do 'Imperial measurements'
)30mm should be slightly tamer, that size carb will support around 40+bhp per cylinder, with the 'right' exhaust and some porting, 75~80bhp is pretty easy to get
Motor doesn't last as long though, needs frequent piston ring and piston changing, pistons every second set of rings (about 350~500km)
Modified stock reed blocks work better than just about any aftermarket set, it just takes a bunch of time to get everything flowing properly and can only be done by hand with files and emery paper 8) (I've tried die grinders, carbide burrs, etc, not much use)
I'm not sure just how much you can do, I've heard the TUV inspection is really strict on non standard parts?
Those carbs will work as PJ suggested, but they offer no advantage on your bike. My RZmakes around 60HP with chambers and stock 26mm carbs. RD400 used 28mm carbs and I think that's what's on yours too. They will support all the power a stock motor can make and bigger crabs do not help.
Your electrical problem is interesting. It sounds like the battery is not charging well enough at low revs and is not holding a charge well enough. I was sure that the ignition system was independent of the charging circuits but it sounds like some part of it relies on battery power. If the battery is new and stock size, I'd be tempted to fit a new regulator/rectifier. LED tail light bulb may make a small difference too. What wattage is the headlamp bulb? It may be an idea to change that to HID or LED.
Your electrical problem is interesting. It sounds like the battery is not charging well enough at low revs and is not holding a charge well enough. I was sure that the ignition system was independent of the charging circuits but it sounds like some part of it relies on battery power. If the battery is new and stock size, I'd be tempted to fit a new regulator/rectifier. LED tail light bulb may make a small difference too. What wattage is the headlamp bulb? It may be an idea to change that to HID or LED.
Just adding to the chorus here regarding the carbs. I have 34mm carbs on one of my own bikes which is very heavily altered. It runs great, but doubt it makes any more power than with the 30's, which ought to indicate the value of the 30's on a stock engine. If memory serves, those 30's are much bigger than the 28's on your bike (30's, 32's and 34's I think share the same basic body?) and although not especially complicated are a bit of a pain to install (custom cables, chokes and idle stop screws on the same side, not fitting the intake manifolds, etc). Drilling a couple of holes and pressing in some oil injector nozzles is of course easy enough. In order to get any value out of the bigger carbs, you will have to make substantial alterations to the engine, part of which will be widening the ports which has a rather disastrous effect on ring life expectancy.
There is a lot of additional power to be had from your RD, but past a point the reliability, or maybe life expectancy is a better term, will suffer. Keep the port widths stock and keep the factory red line rpm. Crankshaft work and lots of top ends are the cost of exceeding these parameters. You can do quite a bit of mild porting work to the reed cages and cylinders for a bit more power without impacting longevity, but past that, more power can be had, but in the main you will be taking lower rpm power and moving it to high rpms making the bike faster but much less user friendly. Red line will be increased and crank life will suffer. Port widths will increase and ring life will suffer. Ultimately you will reach the thermal limits of your air cooled motor at which time it will be very unfriendly indeed on the street.
The good news is that you can tremendously increase the output without excessively reducing the lifespan. Good pipes, along with reshaped combustion chambers and squish bands and o-rings in the cylinder heads along with some tuning to your existing 28mm carbs and a big air filter will make a dramatic power increase while keeping your bike reliable. These are pretty much "bolt on" parts and you get a lot of result without too much trouble. One last point - there is another "cost" that comes with the increased output: It may still be reliable, but it will also be more sensitive to being properly tuned and maintained and the consequences of laziness in this area can be high compared to the stock bike - that's one of the parameters the manufacturers use to arrive at the "tune" they sell their bikes with - which is a state of tune that "lazy" customers can live with.
There is a lot of additional power to be had from your RD, but past a point the reliability, or maybe life expectancy is a better term, will suffer. Keep the port widths stock and keep the factory red line rpm. Crankshaft work and lots of top ends are the cost of exceeding these parameters. You can do quite a bit of mild porting work to the reed cages and cylinders for a bit more power without impacting longevity, but past that, more power can be had, but in the main you will be taking lower rpm power and moving it to high rpms making the bike faster but much less user friendly. Red line will be increased and crank life will suffer. Port widths will increase and ring life will suffer. Ultimately you will reach the thermal limits of your air cooled motor at which time it will be very unfriendly indeed on the street.
The good news is that you can tremendously increase the output without excessively reducing the lifespan. Good pipes, along with reshaped combustion chambers and squish bands and o-rings in the cylinder heads along with some tuning to your existing 28mm carbs and a big air filter will make a dramatic power increase while keeping your bike reliable. These are pretty much "bolt on" parts and you get a lot of result without too much trouble. One last point - there is another "cost" that comes with the increased output: It may still be reliable, but it will also be more sensitive to being properly tuned and maintained and the consequences of laziness in this area can be high compared to the stock bike - that's one of the parameters the manufacturers use to arrive at the "tune" they sell their bikes with - which is a state of tune that "lazy" customers can live with.
and the rd350 runs dang good stock i had one in my senior year of high school in 1975 ...many times as i arrived at school in the morning i would perform a shifter wheelie in front of the school 2nd-through 4th gear just to impress the throngs(hahaha my senior class had 59 students) that was the good old days a whole nother planet when the cops caught us out drinking and drving they just poured the beer out, wagged a finger and said "go home"
i had one in my senior year of high school in 1975 ...many times as i arrived at school in the morning i would perform a shifter wheelie in front of the school 2nd-through 4th gear just to impress the throngs(hahaha my senior class had 59 students) that was the good old days a whole nother planet when the cops caught us out drinking and drving they just poured the beer out, wagged a finger and said "go home"
Hey guys thanks for jumping in on the carb question!
Its great to have so many people with a lot more experience teaching me stuff!
I will open up a new thread which i will post the next days about my next adventures with my RD.
The bike runs strong atm and i really want to learn how it works before i tear into it and tune it.
However some months ago i bought 350 cylinders and heads that fit my bottom case so this will be the first mod in winter.
I will collect the other parts like the new clutch trans,primary stuff etc. the next months to get that thing a little more power
The bike puts out a tremendous portion of torque already,cant wait to see what she does when shes 350.
Maybe it feels faster and stronger,but i enjoy feeling the powerband!!!
Its great to have so many people with a lot more experience teaching me stuff!
I will open up a new thread which i will post the next days about my next adventures with my RD.
The bike runs strong atm and i really want to learn how it works before i tear into it and tune it.
However
some months ago i bought 350 cylinders and heads that fit my bottom case so this will be the first mod in winter.I will collect the other parts like the new clutch trans,primary stuff etc. the next months to get that thing a little more power
The bike puts out a tremendous portion of torque already,cant wait to see what she does when shes 350
.Maybe it feels faster and stronger,but i enjoy feeling the powerband!!!
hey guys!i opened a new thread on how i will continue on with my RD.hope you join!
http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=66452.new#new
http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=66452.new#new
