finally a new 400cc middleweight, and it's a triple!

Aw let him be.....

I am not choosing sides, all I am saying is swagger has extended countless amounts of knowledge on the pages of DTT, and I respect every letter he has typed!

I don't get it. Why would shaving a minute amount of metal off the valve head cause the valve timing to go off? Wouldn't the cam chain tensioner just take up the slack? Even if that did happen, couldn't you just fill the gap with a thicker custom cut copper head gasket?

With regard to shaving the head for raising compression, it does change the cam height with relation to the crank axis, and if left as is the cam timing will shift a couple degrees. However, tweak the tensioner/add shims to the roller base/adjustable cam gears will allow it to be reset.

One very important but often overlooked piece of kit ANY engine builder should have in his arsenal is a degree wheel. Using that and the above methodology and you can dial in exactly what you need for cam timing.

it's a non issue really

I am not really sure what you mean by getting it “perfect”, I mean, what is “perfect”. If it is running smooth and making more horsepower, I call that perfect! I know that gear heads all over the states have been “shaving” heads to increase compression for decades! Hell, most chevy 350 motors that have been worked in any way have a “shaved head”! I am not sure if you just mean motorcycle motors, but I would have to presume that a motor is a motor and if you can do it to one it would only stand that it can be done, in some way, to another!

You *do* hit it on the head though, perfect is what works for your engine. If what you're doing works...keep doing it and thrumb your nose at those who whine because it doesn't fit with what their autoshop teacher or whomever decides to spout.

The ubiquitous pushrod V8 or any pushrod engine is not going to be effected the same, as the cam lives in the block so that important 'cam axis to crank axis' relationship doesn't change when material is milled off the heads. However cammers have been shaved for just as long with fine results.

Just buy that degree wheel and get to wrenchin!

noahdog said:

Nice to see something in the smaller mid-sized range bikes again. Seems like with all the new bikes you have your choice of a 250cc or 900 & up. I love the light weight and handling of my old KZ400. Never have understood why everyone went away from the mid range sized bikes.

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600 Supersports aren't considered middle weights??? Given the choice, between that thing and say, a CBR600RR? 600RR in a heaRRtbeat!

Swagger said:

You *do* hit it on the head though, perfect is what works for your engine. If what you're doing works...keep doing it and thrumb your nose at those who whine because it doesn't fit with what their autoshop teacher or whomever decides to spout.

The ubiquitous pushrod V8 or any pushrod engine is not going to be effected the same, as the cam lives in the block so that important 'cam axis to crank axis' relationship doesn't change when material is milled off the heads. However cammers have been shaved for just as long with fine results.

Just buy that degree wheel and get to wrenchin!

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man brings up a great point.....pushrod engine arent effected by shaving heads because you can make up for in the rockers......OHC engines are a different story.....it lowers teh cam shaft and brings it closer to the head, in actuallity all you are doing is making the same power you were but your making the power higher up in the revs....IDK if anyone follows but its the truth. the only way to raise the compression in a 4 stroke OHC engine and do it with any noticable gains is to put dome top pistons in it. and for all those that dont know......in a 4 cylinder engine every point you raise the compression it only adds 10 horsepower.....your not gonna get that much more compression by shaving the head.....do it right and use pistons and only machine your head if its warped.

Again, it's called a degree wheel. Where's that reading material you so galantly offered to enlighten me with?

I'm done arguing though, it's like betting on the Special Olympics.
Nobody wins.

i told you its gonna take a little while to compile some good reading material with cold hard evidence.....i dont have the time during the week to find it.

and your right, opinions are like assholes everyone has one and everyone elses stinks.....the fact of the matter is that its not the best way to raise compression in a 4 stroke engine.

biker_reject said:

600 Supersports aren't considered middle weights??? Given the choice, between that thing and say, a CBR600RR? 600RR in a heaRRtbeat!

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Well, I believe if you see this little puppy in the states, it will sell for a price that you could buy two of them and tag and title them for less that the sticker of a CBR600RR! I am not saying I would not take the CBR600RR (which is my favorite new bike) I am just saying with the economy the way it is, I might just go get this little puppy for some fun on the porch, until I am sure I can afford to run with the big dogs!

biker_reject said:

600 Supersports aren't considered middle weights??? Given the choice, between that thing and say, a CBR600RR? 600RR in a heaRRtbeat!

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I should have clarified. Try to find any kind of cruiser in a 650 range anymore. Sure you can still find plastic covered crotch rockets in the mid range.