Rebuilt CB360 Motor... Shifting Issues.

Hey all!

I just finished putting my CB360 motor back together and it runs great. The shifting on the other hand is kind of off. I can shift through all of the gears but I would say about half of the time it essentially floats between gears until I kick the lever again, generally going into 3rd and 4th. When that happens, about half that time shifting back down, the shift lever doesn't want to return back to its neutral position (not neutral in respect to gears but the travel of the shift lever). I had a hell of a time getting the clutch release mechanism to work correctly too. Right now, it is working, but I have no freeplay in the lever like I should. When I pull the adjuster nut on the side of the case and adjust it per the manual, when the lever is pulled in, right at the end of the pull, there is a pop sound like something came out of place and the lever goes limp. If I loosen the adjuster more, it seems to pop back into place.

I installed the clutch release mechanism per the manual and it seems to fit and function correctly until you pull the lever pulley and it seems to pop out of place. I do have the ball bearing installed also between the rod and the mechanism.

Does anyone have any ideas on what I did wrong before I tear back into the clutch side or back into the release mechanism?

Thanks!

I have a similar issue with my CT90 as far as float, etc. but an automatic clutch. Interested to see what suggestions you get

I'm guessing you installed something wrong in the clutch mechanism, so youre not fully disengaging the clutch when you pull the lever causing the false neutrals.

I tried all kind of adjustments on the clutch release mechanism... I have everything installed in the order pictured in the manual. Coming from the motor side of course is the rod, then the ball bearing, then the clutch lever, the three caged ball bearings, the clutch adjuster cam, to the adjuster screw, through the cover with the washer and nut.

Now, I did notice that the parts diagram shows the ball bearing between the clutch lever and the caged bearing and NOT between the rod and clutch lever... I looked a possibly installing it this way but I didn't see how it could sit there correctly. The adjuster screw looks like it would press against it but I don't see a way that the ball bearing would sit still and not come off of the end of the adjuster screw...

Thanks so far for the input!

If I remember right, the only thing holding the ball bearing in there until it's installed against the rod is the grease.

Alright... I messed with the clutch release some more and it seems that the new Motion Pro cable that I bought it somehow slightly shorter. The steel cable itself and not the casing. I removed one of the two nuts on the engine side and that seemed to solve the clutch release. It seems that since it was so tight it was putting a preload on the clutch lever inside the cover so the pop sound I was hearing was when the caged ball bearing was falling into the dimples on either the cam or the clutch lever assembly. So that is now better. But I am still getting a bit of float between some of the gears... normally 3rd and 4th. And to make it even more weird, when it 'floats' going into third, when I kick up (with or without pulling the clutch lever) it seems to skip 3rd all together and goes into 4th. It does this each time it floats, when I kick up it skips the gear I was originally changing into. When I do not get the float, it goes 1-6 no problem and it rides great. But it seems about half the time it was to float and skip a gear, and most of the time it does it twice in a row while shifting up. Did I possibly put something in wrong in the other side with the shift spindle where the claw actually rotates the shift drum?? I followed the manual as closely as possible, but to be honest, the 1974 Honda manual is a bit lacking...

Motion pro cable issue is pretty common, usual fix is what you did.

Have you inspected the stopper for the shift drum? It's outside the crankcase on the right hand side on top of the cases. Its a large cap, under should be a spring and a ball. If that is missing, gumed up or worn it can cause shifting problems.

I had removed and cleaned out the stopper when I rebuilt the motor. I can't imagine I didn't get the order correct when replacing it in the motor. But I will pull it to check considering it is less intrusive than pulling the clutch cover back off.

Any other ideas??

So, I looked at the stopper (spring and ball bearing on top of the motor) and when I had the stopper out with the engine off I tried to shift the transmission by hand and noticed that the shift drum is moving side to side. It does not move side to side very much, possibly 1/8th of an inch or so, but I wouldn't expect it to move side to side a noticable amount at all. I was looking at the parts fiche and I could not find a shim of any kind to keep it from moving from side to side. Am I missing something here?

I haven't looked at the guts of one of these in a long time, as far as I remember there was some play in the drum side to side. The ball and spring maintain some of that and the shift drum stopper wheel helps as well. I'm thinking I'm getting my engines crossed as I know a 450 has a c shaped clamp and two screws that hold the shift drum in but I'm not seeing that in the manual for a 360. As long as its not moving side to side that much with everything together than you should be fine.

Floating gears is usually a wear in a few areas, the forks that control the gears that float will have wear on the grooves on the shift drum, the fork ends themselves, or the forks are bent. usually the grooves are so worn they can't get the gears pushed over far enough every time. I doubt you can get the forks messed up and in the wrong place but I've seen and heard a lot of things. The Stopper wheel can be worn so that the spindle the wheel rides on wears out and allows less pressure on the shift drum. That can allow the shift lever to push past where it should. The drum should FEEL like it clicked into place with a sold thunk. I know its a bitch to get the spring for that wheel back in right and get the wheel in the right direction, that can cause goofiness. If you got the spring for the shift shaft on incorrectly it will tend to want to rest PAST where it should and attempt to push through gears every time.

Might PM CrazyPJ see what he has to say about it, he knows more about these things than anyone else.

Your problem may be with one or both of the springs (#10 & #17) in the attached pic.

The #17 spring sits around the #18 stud and is what causes the shifter to return. Part #8 holds the drum in place after a shift and relies on the rension of spring #10.

1/8" is way too much movement.
It can move about that far before you put the ends on shift drum but once assembled it should be 0.030~0.040" max.
Probably have the detent plate fitted wrong or screw has loosened off?

I don't think there are issues with wear on the forks or the grooves in the drum. It has been a while so I do not recall what the measurements were if I was smart enough to take them but everything looked surprisingly clean with no notable grooves or burns on any parts. The bike also shifted without issue before I rebuilt it so I am 99% sure I messed something up on reassembly. I think there is a good chance that there will be an issue with the shift drum stopper (wheel) and the spring. I do recall having a hard time getting it installed so there is a good chance that I installed it incorrectly. The manual is lacking on how to properly install this part, since it just says to assemble in reverse order with no real attention to the shift drum stopper. Can anyone elaborate on the proper installation??

Thanks everyone for the input! I would hope to have the bike running and shifting for the cafe moto meet/show in Orlando this weekend!

Thanks everyone for the input. I looked further into the shift drum stopper with the side cover off shifting through the gears by hand and noticed the shift drum stopper wasn't moving. So as it turns out, I just had the bolt holding the shift drum stopper on too tight... I loosened it slightly and I am back in business. I guess I was just afraid it would back out on its own and fall into the case that I over tightened it (also since I didn't see a torque spec in the manual).

Now to move on to iron out other glitches! ha.

for future reference shifting through the gears has absolutely zero to do with how the clutch works
the clutch is not connected to the shifting mechanism in any way that would effect shifting
if you have shifting problems looking at the clutch is a total waste of time

You were spinning shafts while trying to shift through gears?
A stationary engine will never shift properly
That stopper bolt needs to be tight, it will back out if not tight enough.
You either don't have something lined up right or fitted an extra washer where it doesn't belong
Part #11 could be in backwards?