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Blood Sweat Tears and Grease => Projects => Cafe Racers => Topic started by: rentedshoes on Aug 15, 2017, 11:10:59

Title: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: rentedshoes on Aug 15, 2017, 11:10:59
I'm the proud owner of the worst Ducati in Dallas. Despite many signs that I should have passed on the deal my excitement for what the bike could be got the better of me. I should have bailed when the seller mentioned an out of state title. We'll see how that works out in the long run. I should have bailed when he told me it didn't have a plate. I should have bailed when the seat wouldn't stay on.
However, my excitement for this new project and a need to get home found some cash changing hands and me riding away on a 1997 Ducati 748 Superbike. The worst Ducati in Dallas. I made it about half way home before the rear wheel locked up and me and the bike slid down the ramp on to the highway. Fast forward about two hours and I had a the cheapest Ducati in Dallas in my garage, a chunk of cash back in my pocket and a little road rash to show for it. I was wearing gear and it saved me a trip to the hospital. I ruined a carbon helmet, a jacket and a pair of gloves. And to tell the truth, I was happy to do so.

Things could have been a LOT worse. The seller was a fairly stand-up guy, I was not injured, the bike is easily repairable and I learned a valuable lesson the hard way. When you brain says "walk away" or more importantly, "don't ride that piece if shit home" it's time to listen up. I've got tens on tens of thousands of miles on motorcycles. This was not down to in experience. It was down to rider error. The error I made before I even turned the key.

The end result is that I have what appears to be a solid chassis and motor. Which is really all I needed in the first place. the body work went out to the curb this morning. My plan is to build a heavily cafe-inspired custom.

Picture below is from the CL ad. I don't have any post-crash pictures as I went straight to work the next day tearing it down for the build. Tons of updates to come.

(http://i.imgur.com/docwcys.png)


Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: canyoncarver on Aug 15, 2017, 15:26:51
Good story.  Looking forward to the updates.
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: Cookie on Aug 15, 2017, 15:32:24
Too bad about your crash. Glad to hear you're alright!
Nice looking bike and good on the seller for looking out for your misfortune with his f-ed up machine.

Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Aug 16, 2017, 00:16:17
I'll be watching your progress, very cool!
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: johnu on Aug 16, 2017, 19:33:01
Sweet, I would love a 748 to do a custom build on!  I hope you got the deal of a life time on it?
What are your plans for it?  Hopefully you will get a 5 spoke front wheel to tie in with the rear.  If it was mine I wouldn't be considering "cafe racer" style though.  Look forward to following your build :)
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: rentedshoes on Aug 17, 2017, 08:04:48
I'm glad there is some interest. This build is going to be fairly high-end. My goal is for some coverage or perhaps the opportunity to show at the handbuilt show in Austin. I've got a long update for you fellas.

When I started to tear into the bike I discovered that the previous owner's ratchet only seemed to torn bolts counter-clockwise. Nothing on the body was remotely tight. The result is that the gas tank came off in the crash. I would think that bolting down a steel tank full of combustible liquid that sits directly in front of your nuts would be a priority. However, the PO didn't feel the same way.
The is in fairly rough shape. But that's not really a concern as it is going to be replaced by a carbon unit that is being built right now. The big problem is that Ducati fits plastic quick releases in the fuel lines. Which broke off. And not just in a way that could be easily removed. Thy sheared flush with the fuel pump housing. The result was that I had to remove the fuel pump to extract the remaining plastic. I ordered a salvage fuel pump just in case I damaged the threads on the housing.

I ordered some really nice metal fittings to replace the plastic ones. Replacement OEM plastic fittings were going to be almost as expensive.

(http://i.imgur.com/Xb7vR5F.jpg)

With new fittings installed it was time to shove the fuel pump back in and start up the bike. I discovered that I had damaged the fuel pump seal when gas started to pour onto the garage floor as quickly as I was pouring it into the tank. Crap. Aside from the headache of not having another seal on hand. I had to then deal with a gallon and a half of fuel still pouring from the tank and what seemed like 5 gallons of gas on the garage floor slowly creeping towards the fridge and more importantly, the other bikes.

After an hour or so of cleaning up the spill I decided to see if I could find a replacement seal locally. It turns out that a local shop across town had one. So, off I went.
Now, I'm not cheap by any stretch. And it IS a Ducati. So, I expect to pay a premium for parts. But I was a bit surprised to see a $15 price tag for this:
(http://i.imgur.com/7oUul3R.jpg)

With no other option, internet prices were $20 plus shipping, I paid the lady and moved on. After all, its not what it is but what it does that is important. I suppose that $15 to not burn down your motorcycle and the surrounding property is a sound investment.
Little did I know at the time I would have the pleasure of making that same purchase two more times as I promptly destroyed the first replacement seal on arrival home. The saving grace is that with the shop no closed for two days I was able to consult both the work shop manual and youtube for tips on proper installation. Turns out it's a whole thing where you have to create your own press using long bolts, some nuts and washers to press the thing in perfectly, and I mean perfectly, square. This new found knowledge helped me to get the pump gasoline-tight again.

The first thing any member of the Ducatista does with a bike equipped with a dry clutch is ditch the clutch cover. The PO was no exception. This resulted in the clutch being torn from the bike in the crash. I had snagged the spring retainer from the side of the road. And while researching fuel pump installation over a beer, I decided to use it to decorate one of my tap handles.
(http://i.imgur.com/IZ7pVp7.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/M4IjXP3.jpg)

Having to replace the clutch proved to be nothing more than inconvenient as Ducati spec'd the same clutch on a number of models for a long time. Also, because this is a trade mark feature of the brand, there are tons of parts available. I ordered up this little guy and a VERY minimal clutch cover. C'mon, I can go against the Ducatista.

(http://i.imgur.com/XgOjVAU.jpg)

Apart from having to run out to find a torque wrench to tighten the springs to the proper torque, the clutch instal was very easy and straight-forward.

With the tank holding gas and the clutch installed I was ready to fire it up for the first time since the crash. I wanted to asses the motor before I got too far into the build. The seller told me that it had been bored out to 850cc. With the host of aftermarket parts the bike had, I was inclined to believe him. This marking on the cam cover lends credibility to this claim.

(http://i.imgur.com/fkWYE2N.jpg)

With most of the plastics headed to the Lewisville dump, I didn't really have a good place to put the battery that normally lives just behind the radiator on the right side. So I rolled out my handy shop stool to lend a hand. Battery reconnected, clutch installed, gas in the tank it was time to fire it up. In slo-mo you can see exactly where in the rotation the power stroke is. Pretty neat.

<iframe src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/229984224" width="640" height="640" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe>
<p>IMG_4765 (https://vimeo.com/229984224) from matt mueller (https://vimeo.com/user37500516) on Vimeo (https://vimeo.com).</p>

After running it for a minute or two, I began to notice a little bit of smoke radiating off the bike. Not surprising. I'm sure it was residue from the engine degreasing I had given it. Then I panicked. There was a trickle of gas creating a small pool under the bike. Perfect. I had visions of this bike burning down in my driveway. The bike was shut off and tank removed with a serious quickness. After a few minutes the bike had cooled and enough of the gas had evaporated for a quick inspection. Turns out the fuel lines between the throttle bodies were not only cracked but labeled "not for fuel injection". Now, I'm not a motorcycle scientist or anything but something tells me it is time to replace ALL the fuel lines with fuel injection approved lines. So, I'mm off to get some fuel lines. More to come soon!
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: rentedshoes on Aug 17, 2017, 08:31:14
Sweet, I would love a 748 to do a custom build on!  I hope you got the deal of a life time on it?
What are your plans for it?  Hopefully you will get a 5 spoke front wheel to tie in with the rear.  If it was mine I wouldn't be considering "cafe racer" style though.  Look forward to following your build :)

Johnu, thanks for your interest. You've got a keen eye to catch the mismatched wheels. They are not staying. I'll probably sell them at some point to further recoup some cash. I've got my eye on a set of Marchesini's.

I'm doing this one cafe style because I love the minimalist, engine focused look. Ducati's are essentially a bunch of stuff bolted to an engine. I plan to for the engine to be the focal point and all the rest as functional accents. The details will be revealed as they come to fruition. No sense laying out an entire build only for some body to "borrow" all your ideas before you get a chance to execute them. Also, these projects tend to evolve as they go. Who knows, maybe I'll get some knobbies and riser bars and make it a tracker like my last Ducati ;)
(http://i.imgur.com/UE1fiFq.jpg)


Below is a picture from the initial tear down. You can start to see the lines. Admittedly, it looks like a street-fighter in this picture. The reality is that street-fighters began as sport bikes that had been crashed and body work removed.
(http://i.imgur.com/EJoVmKt.jpg)

More to come soon. I got a box from UPS yesterday afternoon that I haven't opened up yet. I hope you fellas like carbon.
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 17, 2017, 09:11:28
I hope you fellas like carbon.

Ha!

Crazy
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: coyote13 on Aug 17, 2017, 12:03:29
Might be the worst Ducati in Dallas but that's easily the best tap handle I've seen in all of DFW!  I'm in it to win it, love a good Duc project
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: johnu on Aug 17, 2017, 19:43:24
Biggest hurdle I see is that you are starting off with one of the all time best looking motorcycles ever designed :)  If you build something that is worthy of that handbuilt show you mentioned (I looked it up) though we are in for a treat  8) 
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: rentedshoes on Aug 17, 2017, 20:49:39
So, don't get in the habit of three significant updates a day but I got another one for you fellas.

@Johnu the goal here is ridiculous, badass perfection. Which leads me to my next update.

Remember that box I mentioned?
(http://i.imgur.com/ejDxGSq.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Gy01KTo.jpg)
Well that presents a bit of a tale. You see, Ducati, in pursuit of a quickly removable gas tank made the air box part of the gas tank mount. Which is plastic. It's the rubber grommet just behind the ignition barrel.
(http://i.imgur.com/63r2WCi.jpg)
Note the little wiener that goes into the hole. It's a cute lil nubbin. ;)
(http://i.imgur.com/57iJocW.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/h1P2COu.jpg)
Now, there are tons of options for neat looking filters and intake trumpets but why bother if they are hidden within the airbox? If you ask the Ducatista, the motor runs much better with the air box in tact. There's some ram air bullshit that on the factory bike came in under the headlights. As I'm ditching the ram air setup, because it looks dumb without the factory body work, I began to question the need for the air box. I could easily fab a tubular steel gas tank mount behind the head-tube. I agree that this would be really clean and reasonably trick. Especially if I ditch the ignition barrel that lives just behind the head-tube. However, I can't get past the thought that a couple of pieces of steel is the "cheap way out". I'm not made of money and I certainly don't want to waste it. So the air box stays in some form.
(http://i.imgur.com/4mmq4Ue.png)

Well, David Mills, it ain't Gweneth Paltrow's severed head.

(http://i.imgur.com/NXQuZTy.jpg)
That, my friends, is a genuine, bonafied carbonfiber air box. Somewhere, David Mills is relieved.
(http://i.imgur.com/GEQSn9N.jpg)
Mounting hardware hasn't arrived yet. Yes, that was missing when I bought the bike. Oh yea, I replaced the fuel lines this evening. Look at that little guy poking out.
(http://i.imgur.com/Aewls8F.jpg)
And with the intake trumpets. I can't help but think that there is some work to be done with the airbox. I decided to test with the factory airbox first.
Before:
(http://i.imgur.com/dvgOo9d.jpg)
After:
(http://i.imgur.com/5p3zYFE.jpg)
Yes, some other things have been moved around between the pictures. Turns out the headlight assembly is crucial to the bike running. So it will stay until I can remove the key pieces. Right now, I need to keep the bike functional before I really go bananas. Also, you can now see the line on which the seat/tail-section will be created.
Also, there is a visual lightening that happens when you can see through the airbox.
(http://i.imgur.com/ElgzyWA.jpg)
Does that serve the same function as the original airbox? Probably not. But it is an opportunity to create some detail. Perhaps some mesh over the ram air ports. Perhaps not. We'll just have to watch this ugly duc become a swan.
 



Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: rentedshoes on Aug 21, 2017, 11:59:08
While Iím waiting on parts Iíve been plotting how exactly to handle the seat and requisite frame/subframe mods. As Ducati intended only for itís horrible ďmonopostoĒ rear section fitting anything else is going to take some effort.

Below is the inspiration for my project. Yes, itís two generations newer but with the older bike I escape all the clunky electronics and wonky anti-theft features.  The bummer with this bike is that I feel that they missed the lines of the saddle. The green paint on the seat pan is below the green line on the tank. Also, much of the trellis frame is obscured by stuff.
(http://i.imgur.com/9epyQKy.jpg)

Now, I will say that I hope my bike turns out as nice as this one. It truly is beautiful. However, as with anybody elseís project there are things I would have done differently.

(http://i.imgur.com/GJTQiE1.jpg)

The red lines are the trellis main frame. The yellow is the subframe that they fabricated for the cafť tail. The blue line is the line from the bottom of the tank that transitions to the top of the seat. The issue is that none of these different color lines are parallel or perpendicular. This makes my OCD crazy. Iím sure there are reasons this bike was constructed this way but I really want to avoid these design compromises on my build.

Below is one way of creating a new subframe for the bike that will accommodate a cafť-inspired tail section. This does involve adding a new tube under the gas tank and running it straight back to the end of the bike. Also, the lower subframe brace would then be parallel to one of the other frame braces.

(http://i.imgur.com/xRRxz3d.jpg)

The upside is that this creates beautiful lines and is a bit of a nod to a featherbed frame. The downside is that this requires two fairly large and complicated tubes to be fabricated and added to the frame. And while this may add a negligible amount to rigidity to the frame, it does have the potential to add some weight.

A similar effect can be achieved in what may be a more simple solution.
(http://i.imgur.com/IL2a37U.jpg)
By just adding a subframe to the back of the existing mainframe, you are able to forgo fabricating a fairly complicated piece of steel. You are able to achieve lines that will match those that already exist. Also, you leave more of the engine in view. And since having the engine as the centerpiece of the project is the goal, this may be the way to fly. A cool side effect is that the body is able to levitate above the frame. A lot of BMW customs use this effect and it lightens the bike visually.

Option three would be to do something like this 748 by Radical Ducati.
(http://i.imgur.com/wAXeoVA.jpg)
They did basically the same thing I am proposing but perhaps done a little better. As they did not use a stock-shaped tank, they lost that long straight line it generates. They opted to use the line from the frame brace that angles up as it goes back. This brings the tail up in a more modern fashion.  This is a slippery slope because there are some bikes out there that this generates a ďVĒ at the tank/seat junction and can take a laborious project and make it look half-assed.  Also, the angle can be too severe and stick the back end waaaay up in the air.

And finally, perhaps the best way to fly is to utilize both the lines of the tank and frame. After all, many people believe that the 996/748 was the most beautiful Ducati ever made. I disagree; I think the 1098 is the best. Which leads me here.\

(http://i.imgur.com/EdX6mkh.jpg)

Using the factory lines for the body creates lines that are consistent. Using the existing lines of the frame to create a new subframe keeps things simple and avoids adding any new angles into the mix.

Iíd love to hear some opinions on which way to go, as I am clearly uncertain.
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: Popeye SXM on Aug 21, 2017, 14:10:56
I lov'in your project. I don't like the Radical duc, I prefer your tank especially if you want a "cafe racer". I would go for option number 2, (as drawn over your bike). I like the green bike (not the color) I agree they didn't get the seat/ tank right
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: johnu on Aug 21, 2017, 16:28:07
Personally I think the radical Ducatis are the best custom Ducs I've seen!  Imho I would not be trying to create that typical cafe straight line seat/tank alignment that you seem to be looking for.  I am interested to see which way you go.  All I would say is don't choose one option over the other because it is easier to accomplish :)
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: RR100 on Aug 21, 2017, 17:57:59
Personally I think the radical Ducatis are the best custom Ducs I've seen!  Imho I would not be trying to create that typical cafe straight line seat/tank alignment that you seem to be looking for.  I am interested to see which way you go. 

Agreed. Pepo's Duc's are beautiful. The Straight lines tank-to-seat one frequently sees, to my eye, seem more a limitation of fabrication skills than optimum aesthetics. In any event, watching with interest.
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: Alex jb on Aug 24, 2017, 18:11:14
Great to see consideration going on not just hack and hope :)


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Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: johnu on Aug 24, 2017, 20:51:31
Great to see consideration going on not just hack and hope :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Probably not too many people just hacking Ducatis ;D
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: johnu on Aug 24, 2017, 23:48:03
Not to hijack you thread or anything but this is my fav radical Duc aside from the 3 spoke wheels of course :D  You are very lucky to be building a custom Duc and I look forward to more updates on the build whichever direction you go with it :)
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: teazer on Aug 25, 2017, 13:02:25
I am a big fan of carbon fiber, but not a fan of tiny headlamp shell bubble butt seats.  To me, they look out of proportion and don't match the frame style or the tank.

Style is a personal thing and what looks right to one of us may look like crap to someone else, so these are just my thoughts.

The frame is OK as is and it may even be possible to keep the subframe if you kept the underseat pipes, but with a different shaped seat hump. If you go with low pipes, the back end of the subframe might be hanging out there behind thr seat hump.  The subframe has a nice curve which could be incorporated into the seat shape or hidden if you go with a more vertical seat back.

With a bread box tank the seat probably needs to have some "squareness" to it so I'm thinking an updated version of the old 750SS Imola seat - restyled to work better with the tank.  Or perhaps an MHR (original) inspired seat shape. The tank sets the tone for the overall shape/style and the rest has to work with it. Square or round, long or short, fairing or not, low pipes or underseat or high level

That's a thought.  High level pipes like an SS - something like this one in principle. http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Classic%20Racers/Ducati%20750%20SS%20Corsa%2075.jpg


With the frame, I would not alter the main frame.  And the subframe doesn't have to have the table top/Featherbed look in steel.  It can be implied by matching the seat and tank lines without cutting metal. I'd probably change the frame color to black with any color bodywork or red with silver just because it reminds me of the best looking Norton 650Ss cafe racer I remember from the sixties.
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: esmoojee on Aug 25, 2017, 14:20:19
Just out of curiosity, what caused your back wheel to lock? 
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: dakine_surf on Aug 26, 2017, 06:55:12
Just out of curiosity, what caused your back wheel to lock?
By how he described it, sounds like condensation in the brake lines.  I had the same thing happen on the front brake on a supermoto I had that sat for 8 months.  Honestly I didn't remember the last time it had had a brake service either, probably a year before that.

Brake fluid is hygroscopic meaning it can absorb moisture from the air... in some cases when the brake is hot, this water will travel down to the caliper.  When that water hits the hot caliper it flash boils and evaporates quickly creating pressure which can lock up the brakes.  Not fun on the front for sure.  The lesson here is to service your brakes regularly.  This happens more to smaller calipers that are working hard to shave off heat.  Modern dual disk, with multiple pistons and heat sinks handle it better than say my stock front dirtbike caliper on a bigger rotor, or the OPs smaller rear brake.

Not sure this is what happened to the OP, but that was my experience... caused me 2 days in the hospital and 8 weeks recovery from a broken collar bone from my helmet crushing into it when I hit the ground.  A few broken ribs, 2 fingers and a rowdy concussion.  Luckily I was wearing full get or I might not be here today.  I completely cracked an Arai helmet from smacking the pavement.  It was a rough crash, I actually took almost 3/4 of a year off of riding because of all the physical therapy and my shoulder not being strong enough to comfortably control a bike.


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Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: brad black on Aug 26, 2017, 23:22:06
looks like the rear hub eccentric has been rotated to the top, lowering the rear.  seems low at the back.

generally rear wheels lock due to not enough freeplay in the rear brake pedal.
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: johnu on Aug 27, 2017, 20:08:12
I am a big fan of carbon fiber, but not a fan of tiny headlamp shell bubble butt seats.  To me, they look out of proportion and don't match the frame style or the tank.

Style is a personal thing and what looks right to one of us may look like crap to someone else, so these are just my thoughts.

The frame is OK as is and it may even be possible to keep the subframe if you kept the underseat pipes, but with a different shaped seat hump. If you go with low pipes, the back end of the subframe might be hanging out there behind thr seat hump.  The subframe has a nice curve which could be incorporated into the seat shape or hidden if you go with a more vertical seat back.

With a bread box tank the seat probably needs to have some "squareness" to it so I'm thinking an updated version of the old 750SS Imola seat - restyled to work better with the tank.  Or perhaps an MHR (original) inspired seat shape. The tank sets the tone for the overall shape/style and the rest has to work with it. Square or round, long or short, fairing or not, low pipes or underseat or high level

That's a thought.  High level pipes like an SS - something like this one in principle. http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Classic%20Racers/Ducati%20750%20SS%20Corsa%2075.jpg


With the frame, I would not alter the main frame.  And the subframe doesn't have to have the table top/Featherbed look in steel.  It can be implied by matching the seat and tank lines without cutting metal. I'd probably change the frame color to black with any color bodywork or red with silver just because it reminds me of the best looking Norton 650Ss cafe racer I remember from the sixties.

Hey Richard do you mean a tail more like this one?  Another Radical Ducati btw!  You are so right about what looks awesome to one person looks like crap to another!  That's why you build the bike that you like not what other people think it should be.  That's what I love about custom building, you get exactly what YOU want 8)
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: Popeye SXM on Aug 27, 2017, 20:19:24
Change the headlights and WOW, that is more like it  8)
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: teazer on Aug 28, 2017, 13:46:02
John, that is a very sexy bike for sure.  I like the color, fairing and tank and the way the seat is incorporated into the style.  That tail piece is a copy of a TD3/ twin shock TZ and IMHO is still too small and strangely a little too razor edged.

I was initially thinking of this https://img.newatlas.com/1972-ducati-750ss-200-miles-imola-racer.jpg?auto=format%2Ccompress&fit=max&h=670&q=60&w=1000&s=0a90cbcf0310c42262a5f8d2af6bd23c  but squared up a bit to make it less round. 

But that makes me think of other Yamahas.  Check out the shape on a M1 racer.  I am sure that the hump shape could be adapted and shrunk a little to make a killer seat hump for a Duc if it were integrated much as the one you posted.

Seat shapes take me a while to work out.  The Phat Trakka was version 6 or 7.  On the Dunstall, I tried a few different shapes to try to make it work with the stock tank and went with the Dunstall for a classic look.  On another GT750 I keep going between the R7 seat in the avatar and an Aprilia RS250 rounded style.  Both have their advantages and disadvantages and I'm not a naturally gifted stylist.  It's hard work.

Each to their own.
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: rentedshoes on Aug 29, 2017, 11:51:59
Good morning fellas.

Sorry for the gap in updates. Iíll catch up on a few things that are being discussed.

The rear Brake:
First, Iím reasonably certain that the rear brake locked due to water in the brake fluid. The bike looked to have sat for some time before I got it. And due to the location of the rear master, Iím sure nobody bled it unless it was absolutely necessary.

The Body:
There are tons of great ideas going up on this thread. I love that most of them are XTR Pepo or Radical Ducati. For me, those bikes strike a fantastic mix of function and form. I plan to lean a little in the opposite direction with slightly more emphasis on form than function. Donít get me wrong, this thing is going to go, stop and turn with the best of them. But aesthetics will take the front seat.
All that said, I think I have the seat/tail sorted out. There will be some exciting updates in the next month or so.

Performance:
Actual physical progress has been slow. I have spent a ton of time scouring the internet for ideas, parts and processes to achieve the build I imagine. While Iím waiting on parts from what feels like all corners of the globe, I decided to knock out a small upgrade.
Turns out the PO had installed this:
(http://i.imgur.com/3SpR9BE.jpg)
The research I did told me it was a ďStage 1Ē chip from Fast by Ferracci. A friend of mine in the racing world told me that they are pretty much the name in Ducati performance parts for that era of bike.
I emailed them and described the mods that the bike currently had and where I was headed with it. They recommended a ďStage 2Ē chip.
So, out with the old:
(http://i.imgur.com/ZibX1x9.jpg)
In with the new:
(http://i.imgur.com/jXkBW6k.jpg)
Before anybody says it, I contacted Ferracci and the chip IS installed correctly. The label was simply applied upside down. They further informed me that the dial circled in red is to lean/richen the mixture. I probably wonít be messing with that until dyno time.

Thatís all I got this morning fellas. I promise, much, much more to come. Thanks for all your interest and ideas. This is shaping up to be a fun thread.
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: rentedshoes on Sep 05, 2017, 07:45:47
A friend of mine made it clear that to move forward with this build I needed to take it apart. So I did.
I labeled and pulled out all the wiring. I plan to simplify the harness during reassembly. Iím not sure exactly how much Iíll be able to remove but a rework will be necessary. Much of the fuel system, ignition and sensors will remain. There are a number of ďmystery connectorsĒ that I will have to research.

Next, I removed the clip-ons and controls as they were damaged in the crash. The brakes, and clutch slave followed. Iím debating on whether or not they will be reused. Iíve got a little bit of an itch for a set of 848 fork legs. They are available with Ohlinsí internals and they support radial mount calipers. Aaaaand according to much of the internet, they will slide with into the existing clamps. The speed-o cable becomes the only real concern. Iíve toyed with the idea of a GPS speed-o but I havenít found one that fits the project yet.

At the end of the afternoon the bike looked like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/1bAf3Pi.jpg)

And the workbench looked like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/rbgeVIQ.jpg)

Oh yea, these guys showed up earlier this week.
(https://i.imgur.com/zJ9SuIN.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/94pY7ws.jpg)
Thatís right, new clip-ons from Woodcraft. Iím probably a little too excited about them. But if your project doesnít excite you at every turn, youíre doing it wrong.

Pulling the engine to send off to my mechanic is the next step. So, weíll see how that goes.

Thanks for reading. More updates to come.
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: rentedshoes on Sep 09, 2017, 16:17:23
As the Duc came further and further apart I started contemplating exactly how I was going to support the bike as the project continued. I have plenty of motorcycle stands but the only one I have that is compatible at all with the Duc is the Pit-Bull SSSA stand. There is no hole in the bottom of the lower triple. So, my head stand is out. Neither of my other stands will (securely) lift a bike by the fork. I read online about using ratchet straps in eyehooks in the ceiling but that didnít really sit well with me. My garage is pretty stinkiní pristine and I intend to keep it that way. I had planned on sending the engine away to summer camp at ďThe Metric GarageĒ. Which is my friendís moto repair shop. You see, the problem with Ducatiís (as if there is only one) is that the bottom of the motor isnít flat enough to support the engine without tipping over. Tipping is for cows, not Ducs. Also, I wanted to be able to have the motor painted and perfect to go back into the frame when it comes time. A trip to the Internet eventually yielded this:
(https://i.imgur.com/yH9tgak.jpg)

I figured that this wouldnít be my last Duc. Furthermore, Ducati did a wonderful job of making small refinements that results in all kinds of cross-compatibility across itís range for many years. Thatís basically the story of the Monster and the current Ducati Super Sport. Both parts bin bikes. A little research revealed that this engine stand would fit a huge number of Ducati engines. So I clicked ďcheck outĒ and then it was up to UPS.

The engine stand arrived Friday. Over a glass of Bourbon I hatched a plan to remove the engine early Saturday morning. One would assume that I was not the first garage monkey to attempt to pull a motor from a 748 with zero idea how to do it. The next morning, coffee in-hand, I went to the garage and thought. Surely the stand would be tall enough to get the engine close to installation height. It only stands to reason. Wouldnít you know that wasnít exactly the case. With the bike on the SSSA stand, the bolts for the engine stand damn near lined up but not quite. I tried lifting up on the front end but then I couldnít install the stand bolts. I decided to live dangerously and use the stand I had been using for the CB175 to lift the front of the bike so the engine stand could be bolted up tight. A few VERY nervous moments later the stand was installed and supporting the front end of the bike. The front end stand was quickly taken out of action.

Remember three pages ago when I said that I had bought the worst Ducati in Dallas? I found further proof when I started to remove the bolts that hold the engine to the trellis frame. You see, Ducati engines are what is known as a ďStressed MemberĒ. Which means that they are integral to the bikes structure and rigidity. Imagine my surprise to discover that the two main bolts were loose as well as the swingarm bolt. Yep, the engine was little more than finger tight in the frame. Itís a miracle that this thing got as far as it did before the rear wheel locked up. This bike was truly a mess. Itís a shame because most, and I mean MOST, people donít take a torque wrench when the go to buy a bike. In the future, I will.

Fast forward about an hour and two cups of coffee and I had this:
(https://i.imgur.com/pIlsqev.jpg)

I actually picked up the frame, front end still installed because I donít have the stupid f*cking tool to remove the yokes, and lifted it over the engine. Job done.

Around 30 minutes later I had the rolling chassis back on the ground. The problem is that the kickstand is bolted directly to the engine case. So the bike will need to remain on the SSSA stand until further notice. I reinstalled the factory clip-ons for ease of maneuverability. After all, I donít want to scratch up pretty new parts.
(https://i.imgur.com/by69RcP.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0pGHQqp.jpg)

Stay tuned for the next update. There is literally smoke rolling off of my credit card but there are new goodies on the way. Also, I hope to detab this motherf*cker tomorrow. See everybody soon!
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: Rat_ranger on Sep 09, 2017, 17:56:54
You are lucky.  I had a 748 that decided to drop a valve at 9k rpm.  The engine was terrible to get out, I spent 2 days with a saws-all and I don't know how many blades cutting the swingarm bolt.  It was so seized to the bushings I had to cut the swingarm completely out of the frame, and use a 20t press to get the pieces out.  Ended up doing an 853 big bore as it cost the same as rebuilding it stock, luckily I had a spare set of heads for valve adjustments.
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: rentedshoes on Sep 19, 2017, 11:17:24
PARTS!!!

Yep, an Ohlins front end from a 1098 complete with Brembo monoblock calipers! Everything I read says this is a direct swap. Win.

(https://i.imgur.com/3NxcBWB.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/WpRLGlK.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/r3BA2Ud.jpg)
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: 1fasgsxr on Sep 19, 2017, 13:14:41
Nice !!
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Sep 20, 2017, 21:39:02
Superb!
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: rentedshoes on Oct 04, 2017, 10:51:03
Turns out that the internet was right. These forks bolted straight up. Before anybody asks, the forks were just slapped in. I donít plan on running them that high in the yokes. Iím going to set it as close as possible to factory rake/trail settings for that bike.
Wheels will be a little bit of a thing as the axle is much larger in diameter.  Iíve got my eye on a set meant for the 848 that should do the trick.

The speedo drive will be the other issue. I believe the 848 gets speed information from the trans. But Ohlins and radial mount monoblock calipers are a win.


(https://i.imgur.com/Fa2478M.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/AUZ63Zd.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/xEQ5HX1.jpg)

Iíve got two big pieces that should be arriving in the next couple of weeks. Then the fun really starts.

Completely related, anybody want a Ducati front end?  ;)
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: brad black on Oct 06, 2017, 21:07:05
axle diameter should still be 25mm, but the rh end of the 848 axle is much larger, and the 848 axle nut goes into the fork leg, so it too is larger.  i'd almost say with an 848 axle the 748 wheels and speedo drive (no tang to lock it tho) would go straight in.  but the disc offset is possibly wrong, altho that might be crap.
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: rentedshoes on Oct 09, 2017, 20:20:34
axle diameter should still be 25mm, but the rh end of the 848 axle is much larger, and the 848 axle nut goes into the fork leg, so it too is larger.  i'd almost say with an 848 axle the 748 wheels and speedo drive (no tang to lock it tho) would go straight in.  but the disc offset is possibly wrong, altho that might be crap.

Yea, I think you are right. Since I am planning on ditching the stock instruments I'll probably just buy a front wheel for an 848. The research I have done says I'll need offset rotors. Since I have to buy a wheel, axle and rotors, I'll just buy the right stuff for the front end and probably use a magnet-type speedo. I mean, speed is relative any way.
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: rentedshoes on Nov 22, 2017, 22:18:46
Well, itís true. The waiting is in fact the hardest part. But the wait is over. At least for my tank.

(https://i.imgur.com/21k02AO.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/g7DcR7o.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/CWV3QHz.jpg)
Yea, the weaves are different but Iím likely going to trim the airbox down so that the 1k weave is only visible inside. Also, there will be paint.

Now I am just waiting on the seat/tail section before moving any further forward.

(https://i.imgur.com/ARy7kTl.jpg)

Here she sits, waiting for more parts.
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: Popeye SXM on Nov 23, 2017, 09:41:23
Very nice. I wish my shop was as clean as yours. Is the tank lined?, I though petrol and cf were a bad mix long term. Please keep the updates coming, I am enjoying seeing this Ducati transform
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: rentedshoes on Nov 23, 2017, 13:30:22
Very nice. I wish my shop was as clean as yours. Is the tank lined?, I though petrol and cf were a bad mix long term. Please keep the updates coming, I am enjoying seeing this Ducati transform

Thanks for the compliment on the shop. I built my last bike in relative squalor and disorganization. So, when I built out the garage at this house, I was very particular. A place for everything and what not.

As for the tank, I'm not entirely sure if it needs any treatment before introducing fuel. The manufacturer made no mention of this. And if I recall, ethanol is the component of fuel that doesn't play right with the resins. However, I'm sure somebody on here knows better than me.

Finally, I have a question for you fellas. I'm planning on altering the exhaust to a single muffler. I despise under-tail exhausts. As such, I am going to have to fab a chunk of the exhaust. Is there a formula to calculate the "one" pipe diameter of a two-into-one exhaust? I suppose I could measure the Arrow headers where they come from the head, there us a two-into-one collector just after the head and come up with a ratio of diameters. Or do I simply need to keep the same internal "area" of the pipes after they merge?
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: doc_rot on Nov 23, 2017, 17:28:16
Man that gas tank looks amazing! I would definitely check with the manufacturer before putting in pump gas. Usually carbon fiber/fiberglass tanks are used for racing where racing fuel is used so there is no ethanol to eat the resin. If you're using pump gas I'm almost positive you need to seal it with a deferent type of epoxy unless the manufacturer already did that of course.

The collector should be only 2 or 3 sizes bigger than the primary. Common size on a 2>1 with 1.5" primaries is 1.75-1.875" collector
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: stroker crazy on Nov 23, 2017, 18:25:39
Caswell have a good epoxy sealer.

Crazy
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: rentedshoes on Dec 04, 2017, 22:08:21
Time for another update.
(https://i.imgur.com/zSh598q.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/gkBfFKH.jpg?1)

Those wit a keen eye will recognize this as the Radical Ducati seat from previous posts. I managed to track down Yann in France and had him make this up. I plan to remake this from carbon fiber using this one to make a mold. Of course there was a bit of a language barrier to overcome. He asked if I wanted the additional "mount" (thanks google translate) and of course, I did. I really thought that a proper mount for this was too good to be true but if he had it why not? Turns out that he meant seat pan for upholstering. Since there is zero chance of this fitting the stock subframe, I am going to be crafting that as well. In a perfect world, I'd make a one piece seat/subframe. We're just gonna have to see how things turn out.
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: rentedshoes on Dec 10, 2017, 22:09:06
I think the days for quick progress are behind me. Now is the time of year to wear my fingerprints down so that my phone doesn't recognize me.

The big question is how does the seat fit?
(https://i.imgur.com/OkzG60B.jpg)
I'll go with reasonably well. There will need to be some tweaks here and there but ultimately it is the aesthetic I was after. I spent much of the day prototyping a subframe. The lines I want look as if they will work but time will tell. The overall arc works as prescribed. And with any luck, the lines for the subframe will land parallel to an existing line.


While I was waiting for the subframe prototype to cure, I took to polishing some parts. I put a shine on the rear sprocket carrier and the intake trumpets. These will either be further polished and/or anodized.
(https://i.imgur.com/dxtTBQP.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/kSooUws.jpg)
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: rentedshoes on Dec 13, 2017, 21:03:57
Ok, in this update I'm gonna ask for a little help. I'd like to think that I have a better than average understanding of composite materials but I'm moving into uncharted waters here. I do not question one bit that I can make some composite parts that are absolutely beautiful and will look great on a show floor. However, showing is only job 1 for this bike. I fully intend to ride the wheels off it. So, it has to be strong. Nobody wants to hit their ass on a rear tire at speed.

So, I am asking for help and suggestions about the subframe design I m working on. At this point I plan to remanufacture the Radical Ducati seat from Carbon Fiber. During this process, I have the option to combine the subframe with the seat making a monocoque design. Besides rider weight, the structure will need to support the ECU and an Antigravity battery. To say this is an important piece is the understatement of the year. I mean, I've crashed this bike once...Let't hope that was the one and only.

K. Here's where I'm headed. Please no jokes, PVC pipe was the nearest analog to the carbon tubes I plan to use.
(https://i.imgur.com/A3Myeuv.jpg)

This picture shows the lines of the fame that I intend to continue. The subframe tubes will be notched to but together perfectly before being bonded and wrapped with reinforcing fibers creating a (what I hope) is a solid junction.

(https://i.imgur.com/ukKsq5y.jpg)
This next picture shows another angle of the proposed layout. I am wondering if I need to add supports at the points in which the subframe mounts to the frame and if a gusset will necessary at the angled junction at the back of the subframe.

I'll reiterate that I plan to bond the seat to the subframe and create a monocoque structure if I can figure how to fit all the necessary parts inside.

So, any input from the group? Also, if there is anybody local with good knowledge of carbon/composite manufacturing in the DFW area that is willing to come help, I've got Dallas Blonde on tap.
 
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: teazer on Dec 13, 2017, 22:12:37
Check out the Aprilia RS125R and the 250 twins for ideas on a seat /subframe made from C/F.  125 was skinny at the front - maybe 60mm wide plus two side bolts. RSV250R was like the cup bikes except that there was no aluminum subframe hiding inside it. Check with Micah at AF1 in Austin, he may have some pictures on file somewhere.

Basically the 250 seat was attached at two points on each side like the subframe and I think it included honeycomb to add three dimensionality.  You need torsional rigidity.   
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: DesmoDog on Dec 15, 2017, 01:16:15
IMHO if you are going to use composite materials, design the piece to take advantage of the material. Don't just copy round tubes. Take teazer's advice and look at how other companies are doing it.
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: rentedshoes on Dec 16, 2017, 13:01:16
Thanks for the feedback Teazer and DesmoDog. I have taken it to heart. After staring at the bike and researching carbon sub-frames and monocoque tail sections, I agree that I was headed down the wrong path. I think I can do better. The trick is the make the thing strong enough and keep the aesthetic.


(https://i.imgur.com/TJWaQGt.jpg)

At this point, this is the look I want. I still think the tubular support of the tail is key to the look of the bike. Also, I really like the idea of using all four of the stock mounting points. However, the more I think on this, the more I question it.

(https://i.imgur.com/eQwkzoZ.jpg)

I suppose that I could use all four stock mounts and ditch the tubular supports using a mounting design like the one pictured above. Iím just not sure this bike will look correct with a floating tail. I think that you guys are right that with the correct layup the tail should be plenty strong and not need a more traditional skeleton.


I guess all thatís left now is to try a couple of things and see what works.
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: brad black on Dec 17, 2017, 07:16:51
the sb6 had a carbon rear section, and it was basically an inverted u section.  typically of any material flanged edges and curves should help it strength wise.
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: rentedshoes on Dec 27, 2017, 20:04:13
I've been playing with some designs and prototyping a little over the holiday. I decided to play with some ABS plastic to get some shapes that I can eventually build a mold from. I figured an ABS laminate would more mimic what is possible with composites than plastic tubes. While these are very crude, I think they will pave the way for the final design. I think if I correctly integrate a "U" shape as suggested by Brad I can get the desired structure. Admittedly, this is simply the first step in the monocoque development. Dare I ask for feedback?

(https://i.imgur.com/eI8n6ma.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/OMZp2wx.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ty4BUD0.jpg)

Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: teazer on Dec 27, 2017, 20:19:34
You have the right idea.  Maybe even slicker if you could drape the shape outside of those lugs with mounts dimpled in and alloy spacers inside the lugs for a more streamlined look or leave them where they are for a more bare bones look.
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: rentedshoes on Dec 28, 2017, 19:42:04
You have the right idea.  Maybe even slicker if you could drape the shape outside of those lugs with mounts dimpled in and alloy spacers inside the lugs for a more streamlined look or leave them where they are for a more bare bones look.

I'm not exactly sure what you are saying here.  :(
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: themotoworks on Dec 28, 2017, 20:27:55
It's do-able...
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: teazer on Dec 28, 2017, 21:16:10
I'm not exactly sure what you are saying here.  :(

http://raresportbikesforsale.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/20150516-1999-aprilia-rs250-cup-left-730x488.jpg

http://tyga-performance.com/images/thumbs/1800_1200/apseat3-209f972e.jpg

http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=167375&stc=1&d=1311687275

http://i.imgur.com/Ik1oDXz.jpg

http://www.iane.co.uk/store/images/source/Speedfiber/RSW250_007_ON_/17428_RSW_250_07_ON_SEAT_1.JPG

https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/2017-aprilia-rsv4-fw-gp-250-horsepower-1.jpg

http://www.sportbikerider.us/Pics38/1999-Aprilia-RSW250-203859.jpg

What I was trying to say was that the seat has to have sufficient dimensionality in all three planes to be stiff enough. One way is to have the seat "sides" go around the outside of those lugs.  Then indent the mounting bolt holes so that the hardware is below, or level with, the surface.  None of those examples are exactly what I had in mind but all have elements of the design.
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: pmalik on May 17, 2018, 21:57:34
Actually made an account on this forum to follow this build. I've got about half of another superbike in parts left over after rebuilding a 916, so I'm loving this for inspiration.

(Garage floor twinsies!)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nensdya65bm67mi/2017-02-06%2013.10.16-1.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/nensdya65bm67mi/2017-02-06%2013.10.16-1.jpg?dl=0)


The FALL RISK wristband is hilarious.

Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: rentedshoes on May 20, 2018, 16:52:09
So, a lack of updates does not mean there hasnít been progress. There has been the normal polishing and surfacing and collecting of parts. However, the tail section is what has been preventing any real forward progress.  As you may recall, this is about where we left off. That picture makes the tail look very visually heavy. It's really not.
(https://i.imgur.com/03uebWw.jpg)

I figured there were enough pictures and videos of people making molds and generally tinkering with fiberglass. I figured Iíd spare you that process. The cliff notes are that you need to use tons of mold release and that youíll never get back complex curves that are messed up in a mold. Mold #1 went to the landfill and mold #2 was a reasonable success. It isnít much to look at but there was an absolute mountain of hours that went into making that stupid thing.
(https://i.imgur.com/KMDaJ9d.jpg)

Yesterday I finally got the courage and materials to attempt MK1 home made carbon seat outer skin. It went reasonably well. The end product parted easily from the mold but left me disappointed. There were far more voids than I would have liked. However, without a vacuum bag or bladder I think it turned out OK. Iíve got some ideas for MK2 that should circumvent all the issues that this product has.
(https://i.imgur.com/GDr0UBV.jpg)
VOID!
(https://i.imgur.com/VR1KaMt.jpg)

On the shopping list is potentially a vacuum bag or bladder in addition to a roller, a fabric cutter and some wider carbon cloth. 12Ē wide made for some compromises in layup pattern.

Stay tuned. More as it happens!
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: rentedshoes on May 21, 2018, 15:22:17
Does anybody have a source for vacuum bagging materials? Specifically the plastic bags.
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: doc_rot on May 21, 2018, 15:49:03
I use Fiberlay for my stuff, they have the bagging material, and anything else you might need. They have a material called "Strechalon" for bagging that is great for getting in tight compound curves as it will flex unlike the regular plastic bags. They were local to me at one time. They are extremely knowledgeable and have been very helpful to me in my projects in the past so I have continued to use them.
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: rentedshoes on Jun 04, 2018, 18:41:19
While I waiting on more composite making stuff to arrive, I decided to turn my focus to the headlight. I knew I wanted to have a round led headlight but I didnít really want to use a traditional bucket. I donít think the look suits this build and Iíd want to make it from carbon fiber.

I had originally ordered a unit from Trucklite but it didnít have the mounting options I wanted. So, it went back and I ordered a different led unit meant for a Jeep.
(https://i.imgur.com/tHzctRd.jpg)

Once it arrived, I drilled and tapped some holes and started taking measurements for a bracket. I wasnít sure what the final construction would be when I started but I am thinking about 3D printing it from carbon reinforced plastic.

Thank goodness there is so much good freeware out there. Itís truly amazing that A knucklehead like myself can design functional parts in CAD.  I wanted an end product that was very clean and basic and could easily go unnoticed until someone really begins to look at the details of the bike. After many, many failed prototypes I settled on this design. Itís simple, easy to produce and will be strong.

(https://i.imgur.com/SS7kvQm.jpg)

Thank you Cura for free slicing software!
(https://i.imgur.com/Ksvbqz9.jpg)

And a couple hours later I had these:
(https://i.imgur.com/AdokAMT.jpg)
Yes, there is still some of the support material to be removed. This final prototype is basic PLA and not quite strong enough for me to be confident in actually using the part.

(https://i.imgur.com/widTiSZ.jpg)
I decided to use the factory mount on the head-tube. Add in some titanium bolds and you have a headlight mount.

(https://i.imgur.com/GgxnJNo.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/xfp7Xnh.jpg)

Iím pretty sure thatís all I have for today.
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: The Jimbonaut on Jun 04, 2018, 18:49:11
Man, I'm inspired.  I want to muck about with a Ducati next.  I'm really enjoying watching your progress mate and your bike is shaping up great.

(Off to Craigslist to look for Ducatis)
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: The Jimbonaut on Jun 04, 2018, 19:10:07
Back from Craigslist.  That was humbling.  Maybe a trip to Vegas and a night on the craps table?  Daddy needs a new pair of shoes!
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: johnu on Jun 04, 2018, 21:18:41
Man, I'm inspired.  I want to muck about with a Ducati next.  I'm really enjoying watching your progress mate and your bike is shaping up great.

(Off to Craigslist to look for Ducatis)
I hope you have plenty of dough:)
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: rentedshoes on Jun 04, 2018, 22:54:27
Back from Craigslist.  That was humbling.  Maybe a trip to Vegas and a night on the craps table?  Daddy needs a new pair of shoes!

You just have to be patient. I have less than $3k in the original bike. However, I've already more than doubled that spend with parts and materials. There are a number of things I haven't shown you guys yet. If it's got tits or tires it's gonna be expensive.
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: der_nanno on Jun 06, 2018, 10:30:07
Why only go with bags and not look for a big steam boiling pot and a cheap waterline-driven vacuum-pump?
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: rentedshoes on Jul 04, 2018, 12:27:50
Hey fellas, time for another update. Progress has been slow as a new puppy has taken up a bunch of free time and the garage isnít currently a safe place for a puppy.

(https://i.imgur.com/9z6SpPc.jpg)

Oh, and I snuck in a trackday too.

(https://i.imgur.com/UnlnpTc.jpg)

After completing the PLA prototypes I had some time to research. Apparently, carbon reinforced plastic is junk and difficult to work with.  The consensus seems to be that ABS is the better material for making parts. On this project ABS parts simply wonít do. So, it was back to the drawing board.

(https://i.imgur.com/rvQ0TmM.jpg)

I took the file for the mounts and created an inverse image to create a mold.  While the prototype took 3 hours to print both sides, the mold took significantly longer. I had four or five failed prints before I got the settings dialed in. Each side of the mold took over 15 hours to print. This 3D printing stuff is no joke. I think the end product turned out pretty nice. Itís kind of a shame that these molds are sacrificial and will have to be destroyed to extract the part. The mold release wax is too clumpy to get into and then out of the small nooks in the molds.

(https://i.imgur.com/thrj0qv.jpg)

I have seen a number of products constructed using what amounts to injection-molded carbon fiber. This uses small shreds of fibers mixed with resins and put into a mold. As the part I am making is too small to make using continuous strands a practical approach I figure Iíll give it a try. However, Iíll be using a clam-shell mold rather than injecting the material. Largely, because I havenít determined if the material I am able to produce can actually be injected. I guess Iíll be spending my 4th of July afternoon with some carbon scraps and a sharp pair of shears.

The tail section turned out much better than the first but still not perfect. The current plan is to body work it and skin it to get the pattern right. A little trimming and creativity should perfect the fit on the bike. Here it is mocked up.

(https://i.imgur.com/OyeaTGs.jpg)

Like you guys, I spend waaay too much time looking at custom bikes that are professionally built and have craftsmanship that is the cream of the crop. Since I had an airbox that was a copy of the original and a seat that was patterned after a ďone size fits someĒ essentially universal part, the gaps where the pieces meet was going to incredibly hard to get perfect. Anything short of a perfect gap was going to stand out in a big way. This realization made me decide to sidestep the whole issue.
Whatís cooler than a perfect panel gap? A one-piece airbox and seat.

(https://i.imgur.com/yjmdvSi.jpg)

Yup, I bonded them together. Thatís the beauty of composites. Once I get the junction of the parts the way I want, Iíll skin them with a single sheet of carbon to get the weaves to match and make it a single piece.

More to come!
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: rentedshoes on Jul 08, 2018, 20:41:23
(https://i.imgur.com/vnkVxGg.jpg)

Whaddya think?
Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: rentedshoes on Sep 02, 2018, 18:37:00
Hey Fellas. Time for an update. the quick and dirty is that not really anything that I posted last time worked out.

The molded carbon failed due to either too little hardener in the resin or some kind of chemical reaction with the mold material. Regardless I ended up with junk.

The integration of the seat and air box wasn't without problems. It turns out I got a couple of angles wrong. I had to cut it apart and try again. the 2nd attempt worked out nicely. From there it has been a lot of bondo and sanding. I'm hoping to have it finished next weekend.

I've been keeping an eye on the internet for a set of wheels. I would love to have some spoked wheels from a Multistrada but those don't come up often. Also, I think that Kineo wheels look dumb. Instead, I scored some wheels from a hypermotard. They even came with tires and rotors. Tires will eventually be replaced with something super sticky.

(https://i.imgur.com/Me03049.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/POwdCuw.jpg)

The final problem turns out to be the headlight ears. I looked into a couple of online CNC machining places. They wanted $1,400 to machine the ears. 3D metal printing was better but just at $700. Is there anybody out there with a CNC machine that is up for a challenge? dropbox link to the file below.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u400svd2mfz89z5/Ears.scad?dl=0




Title: Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
Post by: rentedshoes on Sep 05, 2018, 19:37:16
I was busy this weekend with the sand paper and carbon fiber. I really want the option to leave any part of the carbon body work unpainted. So, after getting the tail body worked, I added a skin layer. I then put on a few extra coats of resin to get a smooth finish with plenty of depth. It still needs a bit of sanding and eventually some kind of clear coat with UV protection.
(https://i.imgur.com/jaK1Pod.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/8ffHmSw.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/fNKLEK7.jpg)
Next, I created a seat pan from the MK1 of the tail. I have no idea if I'm going to use it. My plan to this point had been to simply use race foam but the way the seating surface is shaping up, I may just leave the carbon exposed. The inspiration for the seat pan was this:
(https://i.imgur.com/d8oobz5.jpg)
If you look close, you can see a nude carbon panel on top of the silver. I could just as easily leave the carbon exposed. We'll juts have to see what happens.


The plan since day 1 was to put the battery and electrics in the tail. I can't believe the number of Ducati "customs" that leave the battery in the stock location. Yes, it keeps the CG lower but c'mon. I think it's just lazy. I plan to use a super-lightweight battery and GP style exhaust which should result in a CG lower than stock. But who knows?

I 3D printed models a few of the batteries I was considering. I can't see buying a battery for the bike at this stage when I can use that money for current tasks. I then crafted a battery box and ECU mount from carbon that I intend to bond into the tail. The ECU will hold the battery in place and both will remain out of sight and tucked away.
(https://i.imgur.com/rNpopsD.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/I077kvL.jpg)

As I have planned for this to be a high-end build from the start, nothing but the best will do. The mail man delivered this today.
(https://i.imgur.com/zWmpPIx.jpg)
That's right boys and girls. Motogadget M-unit blue. If I am to get all the wiring for this ugly duc inside the tail, I was going to need to slim down the wiring loom significantly.

The end result of all these parts should come out something like this:
(https://i.imgur.com/gaUMIuD.jpg)

That's what I got for you fellas tonight. I'm off to solve as many problems as I create!