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Blood Sweat Tears and Grease => Projects => Bob and Chop => Topic started by: irk miller on Oct 09, 2017, 00:18:20

Title: CB750 No Plunger Hellride
Post by: irk miller on Oct 09, 2017, 00:18:20
Thanks to the gracious delivery of this 70's era plunger frame from New Mexico to Alabama by Canyoncarver, I'm jumping into this chopper build with two feet. I've reached out to several forums, sorted through various catalogs and ads from the 70s, but have yet to identify the manufacturer with complete confidence.  I think it's definitely a production style frame, considering the neck.  It has two pressed in cups for a common neck tube.  The CB750 triple tree that came with the frame has a modified stem to account for the longer neck. 

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171009/d84898423e40c89029a3a00698dd43fe.jpg)

We're in the sketching  phase, so things can change wildly.  Ultimately, I want to avoid common cues like peanut tanks....


It took some machine work on the steering neck cups and the RM stem to make this RM front end work...

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171009/4ab747e7d5fd850cd7123595a8ad1182.jpg)

Here is sits with a 1991 RM250 front end and RM wheels front and rear.  I like the dimension of the dirt bike wheels, plus they're aluminum.   If I decide to go drum on the rear wheel, I may go 70s era XL350.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171009/9a8433f4e6ebe06b919e87ab1c3082f6.jpg)





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Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: HURCO550 on Oct 09, 2017, 09:57:34
 I'm in

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Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: Ryan Stecken on Oct 09, 2017, 10:37:52
Hell yeah man.Count me in.  8)  8)  8)
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: SONIC. on Oct 09, 2017, 16:37:42
Work slower. You make everyone else look bad.
Jackass.

Looks cool though  ;D
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: trek97 on Oct 09, 2017, 17:27:58
Those forks are AWESOME on that frame.
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: irk miller on Oct 10, 2017, 00:33:08
Grades and comments for midterms are due tomorrow, so what do I do?  Make a mount for a headlight...

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171010/302063684e1307c8666b4196eb954b37.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171010/3ae0610d264c98ef3628196d39cc0c1e.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171010/54597f1455d72c1df2775a2419208875.jpg)


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Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: trek97 on Oct 10, 2017, 00:37:00
That headlight on there is the shizzle.
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: 63SSRagtop on Oct 10, 2017, 01:40:19
Dig the frame, I've never seen one quite like this either.. can't tell if it's a weld on rear half or whole frame.. You are probably aware that the front end may be really spongy for the weight of the bike as the build goes on.. they are designed for much more travel than a street bike front end.. I've read that the fluid movevement can be restricted with a machined piece and/or stiffer springs.. worked on a cafe Suzuki that had 250 forks, they looked cool but damn it moved around way too much.. cool project though! Will keep tabs!

That frame looks to me like a Jammer frame, canít find any reference to one with a plunger rear, but someone at some point could have grafted in a Santee rear section..
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: irk miller on Oct 10, 2017, 07:47:54
Dig the frame, I've never seen one quite like this either.. can't tell if it's a weld on rear half or whole frame.. You are probably aware by that front end may be really spongy for the weight of the bike as the build goes on.. they are designed for much more travel than a street bike front end.. I've read that the fluid movevement can be restricted with a machined Peice and/or stiffer springs.. worked on a cafe Suzuki that had 250 forks, they looked cool but damn it moved around way too much.. cool project though! Will keep tabs!

That frame looks to me like a Jammer frame, canít find any reference to one with a plunger rear, but someone at some point could have grafted in a Santee rear section..

Yeah, I'm definitely considering the possibility that these forks won't work. I have tried them on a heavier dual sport contraption I built, so I think there's room to make them work here.  This is one iteration, with potentially several others. They can be valved and fluid levels adjusted to effect the dampening on these to account for weight. The rake is a big factor, as well.

I've narrowed my opinion of the frame manufacturer to either Jammer or an early Santee. Though, all the Santee plunger frames seem to have a goose neck. You may be right on about the plunger being grafted on a Jammer. The tubes which mount the springs certainly suggest that possibility...

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171010/bb8b6279331300dd0c986248e3a28538.jpg)




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Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: JustinLonghorn on Oct 10, 2017, 09:08:42
Choppers are dumb. And I love them.
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: Maritime on Oct 10, 2017, 11:21:25
Ha, I usually hate rectangle lights but it suits this bike well. Looking forward to more of course.
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: canyoncarver on Oct 10, 2017, 22:07:01
I barely pull in my driveway from the trip and you've already got a front end on it.  !    Sweet.
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: irk miller on Oct 11, 2017, 07:56:27
Had a little convo with Race Tech.  I could go as high as .52kg/mm on springs in these forks.  Stock is .36kg/mm.  We'll see how it acts with weight and go from there.  Regardless, I feel pretty good that we'll find a match with rake and trail considerations.
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: jag767 on Oct 12, 2017, 05:21:37
That front end looks like it has a ton of travel, do you have to limit it with a spacer or something or does it not matter? Btw it also looks fantastic on that frame.
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: irk miller on Oct 12, 2017, 07:49:03
That front end looks like it has a ton of travel, do you have to limit it with a spacer or something or does it not matter? Btw it also looks fantastic on that frame.
  I imagine there will be enough travel to hit the frame to floor if I were to jump it, but running on the street will just waste most of what it has available. As long as Race Tech has the right springs, these forks should work well.  I have a VZ800 front end to swap in, if this setup doesn't work. 
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: surffly on Oct 12, 2017, 09:09:25
Choppers are the best worst bikes ever!
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: irk miller on Oct 12, 2017, 09:43:35
Choppers are the best worst bikes ever!
Hell yeah they are!!!
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: irk miller on Oct 12, 2017, 09:48:37
I didn't take any glorious actions shots, but man you should've seen me getting all the Bondo off this frame.  Fuck that 70s smoothed out look.  I learned an old body shop trick with removing paint and bondo, which is to get a fan tip for a torch and go apeshit with a scraper and stiff wire brush.  It weakens the Bondo so you can scrape it off, or brush it off.  Thick areas require a few passes.  Some of it drops in flames.  Then clean up the mess on the floor with a broom.
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: advCo on Oct 12, 2017, 11:06:21
I didn't take any glorious actions shots, but man you should've seen me getting all the Bondo off this frame.  Fuck that 70s smoothed out look.  I learned an old body shop trick with removing paint and bondo, which is to get a fan tip for a torch and go apeshit with a scraper and stiff wire brush.  It weakens the Bondo so you can scrape it off, or brush it off.  Thick areas require a few passes.  Some of it drops in flames.  Then clean up the mess on the floor with a broom.

Sweet, I got a whole Ghia worth of Bondo to strip off. This will be useful.
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: Redbird on Oct 12, 2017, 12:36:46
Subscribed.
I see the bones of the Deviant Hellride in the background. Is she supplying the lump for this girl?
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: irk miller on Oct 12, 2017, 12:50:15
Subscribed.
I see the bones of the Deviant Hellride in the background. Is she supplying the lump for this girl?
That she is.  I thought about running those mags too.  We'll see how things go.  E and I are convinced that bike is cursed.  Hopefully the motor can be exercised. 
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: 3DogNate on Oct 13, 2017, 14:34:22
Watching.... plunger frames are cool
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: WhyNot on Oct 13, 2017, 14:47:44
I'm watching all the other builds, might as well jump in for the ride on this one.........

Jack

Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: irk miller on Oct 13, 2017, 15:41:03
Thanks fellas. 

Got tires mounted.  I may go 18" or 17" on the rear instead.  This is 19" with a big ol flat track tire mounted.  21" up front.  I'll be looking at this setup for a while.

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/77150-131017133915.jpeg)
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: Maritime on Oct 13, 2017, 15:50:18
The big ole flat track tire makes the rear look bigger than the front which is weird or not right looking. Now maybe with a fender on the back it might look better?
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: irk miller on Oct 13, 2017, 15:59:09
The big ole flat track tire makes the rear look bigger than the front which is weird or not right looking. Now maybe with a fender on the back it might look better?
It's 1.5" taller in the rear, which is a look not uncommon for digger style choppers.
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: canyoncarver on Oct 13, 2017, 16:42:39
The 21" looks great up front.  That rake is perfect.  I'd try the 17" rear.
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: SONIC. on Oct 13, 2017, 16:50:38
I like the big rear tire.
Reminds me of a dragster  8)
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: clem on Oct 13, 2017, 18:40:27
Bam! Throw some top fuel flare on that thing.

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Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: stroker crazy on Oct 13, 2017, 19:00:07
I like the big rear tire.

Me too!

Once the motor, tank, seat, etc. are in place it should look just right.

Crazy
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: canyoncarver on Oct 13, 2017, 19:51:43
Yes!
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: WhyNot on Oct 14, 2017, 07:00:24
Yep, like the stance.
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: jag767 on Oct 14, 2017, 07:20:19
Definitely drop to an 18 rear, front looks great!
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: irk miller on Oct 14, 2017, 12:45:58
Lump installed.  Goddamn, it's a heavy lump.

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/77150-141017104414.jpeg)
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: HURCO550 on Oct 14, 2017, 13:36:42
I can dig it

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Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: SONIC. on Oct 14, 2017, 18:01:35
I do not like choppers.
For some reason I like this.
You have my permission to proceed.
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: irk miller on Oct 14, 2017, 18:59:47
I do not like choppers.
For some reason I like this.
You have my permission to proceed.

Ha!  Thanks.  Brad and Ard are telling me to scrap the plunger and make it a hardtail.  I have that inclination but I kinda want to stick with the plunger, if only because there aren't many out there. 
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: trek97 on Oct 14, 2017, 19:34:43
Oh no, you just gotta keep it as is. 
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: Maritime on Oct 14, 2017, 19:38:19
With the lump in rear tire looks better anf I agree keep plunger frame. Anyone can have a hardtail.  Plungers are more rare and different.  And we all know you're different
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: HURCO550 on Oct 14, 2017, 20:04:45
 Yep, my vote (Not that it matters) is to keep the plunger. Plus, if you hate it, it will be easy enough to hard tail later

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Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: irk miller on Oct 14, 2017, 20:14:11
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171014/4a4905633c8c8bb6d455347ee5a8b48a.jpg)


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Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: canyoncarver on Oct 14, 2017, 21:00:43
well, that was quick.
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: SONIC. on Oct 14, 2017, 21:14:29
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171014/4a4905633c8c8bb6d455347ee5a8b48a.jpg)
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Didn't anyone ever tell you not to give in to peer pressure?
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: HURCO550 on Oct 14, 2017, 22:24:06
Ha

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Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: trek97 on Oct 15, 2017, 00:39:13
They look so sad.

Can I have them?
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: irk miller on Oct 15, 2017, 02:15:27
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171015/6d7143af75863e69a53b5544695f7785.jpg)


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Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: irk miller on Oct 15, 2017, 02:24:07
Ever since the deal with Kelly to get the frame, lots of research has happened. If it were a legit Amen or original plunger, I would've kept it a plunger no matter what. The more I dug, the more I realized someone added a plunger kit in the 70s.

As the research goes, there is only one suspension worse then a hardtail and that's a plunger. Awful ride and awful handling. Plus they destroy your drivetrain because the  suspension acts independently since there's no swing arm. Talking to some old school chopper guys, the only way to fix them is to add a torsion bar. I decided to make it a hardtail instead.




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Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: SONIC. on Oct 15, 2017, 02:29:00
Time to change the name  8)
Title: Re: 70s Era CB750 Plunger Hellride
Post by: stroker crazy on Oct 15, 2017, 05:29:53
there is only one suspension worse then a hardtail and that's a plunger.

True!

Even with a swing arm they're pretty dubious.

Crazy
Title: Re: CB750 No Plunger Hellride
Post by: trek97 on Oct 15, 2017, 07:19:50
I see your point now.
I thought it would be similar to the older BMW models.  But, after looking closer, I now realize the BMWs do have a fully active swing arm.  Along w utilizing the drive shaft tube.  Just kinda hard to see exactly whats happening there as most are painted black and that suspension is hardly noticeable.

Learn something everyday...check.

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/11494-151017051541.png)
Title: Re: CB750 No Plunger Hellride
Post by: clem on Oct 15, 2017, 10:49:11
Sell those things to a plumber and use the money to buy more radness for this bike.

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Title: Re: CB750 No Plunger Hellride
Post by: irk miller on Oct 15, 2017, 12:12:37
Sell those things to a plumber and use the money to buy more radness for this bike.

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Ha!  I can't keep my washing machine drain from clogging.  Maybe I can throw those fuckers down there. 
Title: Re: CB750 No Plunger Hellride
Post by: Redbird on Oct 15, 2017, 12:58:35
I have that inclination but I kinda want to stick with the plunger, if only because there aren't many out there. 
As the research goes, there is only one suspension worse then a hardtail and that's a plunger.
If that's the case, I think I would've welded up the Plunger in a fixed position and ran that instead. That way it would ride like a hardtail, but look like a plunger.
Sadly (for me), the frame has lost it's "hook", and now looks like a cookie cutter hardtail.
Title: Re: CB750 No Plunger Hellride
Post by: irk miller on Oct 15, 2017, 13:56:53
If that's the case, I think I would've welded up the Plunger in a fixed position and ran that instead. That way it would ride like a hardtail, but look like a plunger.
Sadly (for me), the frame has lost it's "hook", and now looks like a cookie cutter hardtail.
Sorry to disappoint.  It was a hard decision that I went back and forth on for months.  Thanks for making it easier.  It's not a cookie cutter kit to turn it into a hard tail and it's not cookie cutter axle plates.  That's all done by me in my own design.  I figured I'd lose some fans of this build with the decision, but I gained a few inches in length to sit (which it needed) and I won't wobble and die at high speeds (which is common with plungers).  Not sure how welding up the plunger to make it into a fake plunger is better than turning it into a hardtail.  I'm not into faking things.  I might not always do it right, but I do it honestly.  Considering I've just been told that it's a waste of these USD forks on a hardtail, I'm definitely building a roster of vocal critics.  I'm sure this build will attract way more vocal critics than I have now. 
Title: Re: CB750 No Plunger Hellride
Post by: irk miller on Oct 15, 2017, 14:58:01
I recycled the plunger axle plates and boxed them out. Put in torsion bars to stiffen up the frame.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171015/535b4d370b08e8e39ec61c29dd5b0a43.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171015/b59f0e5659377eae32bb0c061020feaf.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171015/f6d897b6481a37a8769b87c3c1078549.jpg)


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Title: Re: CB750 No Plunger Hellride
Post by: Redbird on Oct 15, 2017, 15:41:33
I wasn't trying to bash or suggest you should do anything differently. Nor am I disappointed. I'm of the opinion that "it's your bike, do whatever makes you happy".
I'm no Bob/Chop suspension (or anything else) expert, but it seemed to me the "unusualness" of the plunger rear was the draw. Now it no longer has that.
And all I was "pondering" with making a fake plunger was to keep the unusualness of it while improving the function. Fundamentally the same premise as using a vintage headlight and/or taillight shell, but installing LED fixtures/bulbs to improve visibility/safety.

But you do you dude. Don't let me interrupt. I'll keep my uneducated musings to myself, as not to be lumped in with the rabble rousers ;) :P
Title: Re: CB750 No Plunger Hellride
Post by: Cookie on Oct 15, 2017, 16:21:47
"The Hellride Formerly Known as Plunger"?

Lol

True it loses some uniqueness without the plunger  rear end, but as you said Irk, it wasn't born that way, and the plunger that were cobbled from hardtails were even more unsafe than the handrails they started out as. Kind of like those guys who make a "hardtail" by bolting some steel rod in where the rear shocks used to be.

It may not have the same character, but it's still pretty sexy looking! My only gripe is that you seem to be able to turn out projects faster than I can read your posts about them!

And I for one like the forks. Wasteful or not, they give it character that a cookie cutter hardtail will otherwise lack.
Title: Re: CB750 No Plunger Hellride
Post by: trek97 on Oct 15, 2017, 17:32:16
Captain America's got what you need.  LOL
(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/11494-151017153116.jpeg)

Maybe a little more this...
(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/11494-151017153418.png)

You definitely gotta do the king/queen w sissy bar.
Title: Re: CB750 No Plunger Hellride
Post by: irk miller on Oct 15, 2017, 20:39:50
Captain America's got what you need.  LOL
(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/11494-151017153116.jpeg)

Maybe a little more this...
(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/11494-151017153418.png)

You definitely gotta do the king/queen w sissy bar.


Ha! I doubt I'll do that seat. You saw that Schwinn girder front I got from Levi, right? That goes on the bike I got from you.


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Title: Re: CB750 No Plunger Hellride
Post by: canyoncarver on Oct 15, 2017, 22:14:40
I like the new length and the bracing.  Do you think you'll have to run a mid-chain tensioner ?
Title: Re: CB750 No Plunger Hellride
Post by: irk miller on Oct 15, 2017, 22:20:20
I like the new length and the bracing.  Do you think you'll have to run a mid-chain tensioner ?
Not sure.  The length really doesn't seem bad.  I'm waiting on the screws to mount the rear sprocket then I'll measure it up.  The local dealer didn't have a long 520 chain in stock, so I have to order.  I have a tensioner here just in case. 
Title: CB750 No Plunger Hellride
Post by: irk miller on Oct 16, 2017, 17:15:09
Nothing like getting a couple of days off for Fall Break and literally spending all day on a bracket to mount your coils #noglory

 (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171016/2ad29a2206eb6faa4c1efc2d538aba3c.jpg)


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Title: Re: CB750 No Plunger Hellride
Post by: Maritime on Oct 16, 2017, 23:12:47
Thats a clean and tight mount. I like it and with the hardtail the rear tire looks better to me too.
Title: Re: CB750 No Plunger Hellride
Post by: irk miller on Oct 17, 2017, 01:02:32
Thanks, Mike.

A couple quick little updates...

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171017/93f001ea962010fa5497dc2326e77e08.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171017/c8bc2076103bfa936285c4d65aafb418.jpg)

Brakes: I have to figure out a tab for the rear stay. Something I can try to machine tomorrow.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171017/a3d9f27c5c82cb5503e18260dd779c90.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171017/bda6dc556e81d001a2602243ffd25c26.jpg)

Sprockets: I'm running a 38 tooth rear and a 14 tooth counter. The counter sprocket is an XL250 sprocket, with a machined spacer.  Honda ran a common counter shaft tooth for several bikes, which is really convenient when you want to convert a CB750 to 520 chain.


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Title: Re: CB750 No Plunger Hellride
Post by: canyoncarver on Oct 17, 2017, 01:16:24
Way better pics.  I dig how you did the axle plate now I can see it.    Cool.
Title: CB750 No Plunger Hellride
Post by: irk miller on Oct 17, 2017, 11:31:18
Machined a brake stay and got it mounted...

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171017/4c4ca1bd4d2182eb7148f1301887dcef.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171017/0535c302e1f12ea90d8db1330c977716.jpg)


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Title: Re: CB750 No Plunger Hellride
Post by: irk miller on Oct 17, 2017, 20:35:31
More brake stuff (lines will eventually be SS AN )...

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171017/80313a456cababbcd34460e3d559ac4f.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171017/da49e5ee2ff4a32aa58530f094851437.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171017/78e5a62a5b653d4616539e56c7bed366.jpg)


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Title: Re: CB750 No Plunger Hellride
Post by: HURCO550 on Oct 17, 2017, 21:13:28
yep. I agree with sonic. You need to slow down. your making us all look bad.

In 2 days you have gotten more done than I do in months on my projects lol

Lookin good bro
Title: Re: CB750 No Plunger Hellride
Post by: irk miller on Oct 18, 2017, 00:00:56
Started making a seat pan. I really just want to be able to sit down on it...

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171018/65253d8a587fb611022b8ea7b95b24a1.jpg)


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