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Author Topic: Nixon, 1972 Honda CL450 Scrambler Refurb  (Read 8655 times)

Offline Flugtechnik

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    • Nixon and Me
Re: Nixon, 1972 Honda CL450 Scrambler Refurb
« Reply #30 on: Sep 06, 2016, 18:28:10 »
The rotor puller I ordered came in so I was able to get the generator rotor and starter clutch off.  All looks good there so it will just get a cleaning before going back on.




Took the clutch apart and the friction discs were on the low side.  Steel discs were fine.  Clutch springs were at the bottom of the service limit.  New friction discs and clutch springs will go back in.




All looked good with the clutch basket as well.  Minimal wear.



The oil filter nut refused to come off even after I bent all the lock washer tabs back.  I had to borrow my dad's impact wrench to get it loose.  Once that was off I was able to get the oil pump and clutch basket off.  The oil pump has a little bit of wear from the piston pin but I am probably going to replace it with a rebuilt one.  Most of the updgrades I will be doing to the engine will be oiling related and it all starts with a good oil pump.




The shifting lever is cracked in two places just below the shift drum.  I will either find a good used one or get this one repaired.


Offline Flugtechnik

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Re: Nixon, 1972 Honda CL450 Scrambler Refurb
« Reply #31 on: Sep 06, 2016, 18:49:47 »
Then, I took out all of the case bolts.  I whacked the cases with a rubber mallet a bunch of times until the case sealant split.  The cases came apart and I was finally able to see into the deep dark reaches of the engine.  What I found was good and bad.

The bottom case had a good buildup of sludge and other bits.  The large chunks of stuff in there are from the old cam damper rubber rings that disintegrated.  I replaced those the last time I rebuilt the top end.  Now I can clean all of those bits out.




I took some time to sit down and study the transmission so that I understood how it all worked.  Seeing it in motion made things much clearer.  Now that I know exactly how it works, I know where to look for damage and wear, and it will be easier to put it back together.




All of the gear teeth looked fine and there was minimal wear on the dogs.




I took the gears out and inspected the shift forks and drum.  There was very little play and the shift fork thicknesses were within spec.




As I was inspecting the shift drum, I found the reason it was popping out of second gear.  The "star gear" on the shift drum that works in concert with the large detent wheel is very worn.  This is what hold the shift drum in the correct position for each gear.  In addition to the detents in the drum being worn, the detent wheel itself is worn.  Or rather the "axle" pin that holds it is worn and allows the wheel to move like it has an elongated hole.  These two things combined made it so that the shift forks did not hold the gears in the proper position to fully engage second gear.  Replacement parts will be found or the parts will be repaired.






Offline john83

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Re: Nixon, 1972 Honda CL450 Scrambler Refurb
« Reply #32 on: Sep 07, 2016, 00:05:21 »
Mmmmm....Engine bits.

Offline Kanticoy

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Re: Nixon, 1972 Honda CL450 Scrambler Refurb
« Reply #33 on: Sep 07, 2016, 00:41:34 »
I'm excited for Nixon. You're doing this right!


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Offline irk miller

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Re: Nixon, 1972 Honda CL450 Scrambler Refurb
« Reply #34 on: Sep 07, 2016, 00:57:53 »
How does one do engine work in their living without destroying the place?  Add in my situation with the two devices of pure chaos I call my daughters, and I can't see how there wouldn't be oil from floor to ceiling and a gear jammed into the cd tray. 

Offline frogman

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Re: Nixon, 1972 Honda CL450 Scrambler Refurb
« Reply #35 on: Sep 07, 2016, 09:58:30 »
Those wheels are easy to fix, the rivet is generally what wears out and almost every one I have seen over the last 4 years has been worn out.  Just drill it out and make one out of a bolt, if you have a hand file and hand drill you can make one. 

Star wheels are fixable, I've seen may a guy have them welded up and ground back to where they need to be.

Good thing the forks aren't bent, usually end up bending the one that does 2nd once it starts the popping.

Offline Flugtechnik

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Re: Nixon, 1972 Honda CL450 Scrambler Refurb
« Reply #36 on: Sep 07, 2016, 12:57:56 »
Those wheels are easy to fix, the rivet is generally what wears out and almost every one I have seen over the last 4 years has been worn out.  Just drill it out and make one out of a bolt, if you have a hand file and hand drill you can make one. 

Star wheels are fixable, I've seen may a guy have them welded up and ground back to where they need to be.

Good thing the forks aren't bent, usually end up bending the one that does 2nd once it starts the popping.

Yes, I might get lucky and find a wheel that isn't worn out, but I doubt it.  Unfortunately I don't have a drill or a file, but I do have a few friends with lathes.  I am actually considering redesigning the wheel so it doesn't wear out so fast.  I am an engineer so I always like making things better.

I have found a few shift drums on ebay with little to no wear so I am just going to buy one of them.  I can't weld so it would probably cost me more to have mine fixed.
« Last Edit: Sep 07, 2016, 13:00:14 by Flugtechnik »

Offline Flugtechnik

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Re: Nixon, 1972 Honda CL450 Scrambler Refurb
« Reply #37 on: Sep 26, 2016, 18:19:18 »
I found some transmission bits in good shape on ebay.  I ended up getting a shift drum star gear and detent roller from a CB500T.  They are different part numbers from the CB/CL450 parts for some reason.  I'm not really sure what they changed.  When the new detent roller came in, I compared it to the old one.  It seems to be made out of a different material and the wheel is a bit thicker.  The pin it spins on also seems to be a different material or is just pressed differently.  Perhaps Honda knew about these parts wearing and redesigned them.




The "new" start gear has almost no wear.




I also got lucky and found some cam followers in really good condition.  Xulf13 pointed me to a guy parting out one of his motors on HondaTwins.net.  I needed these because I did something really dumb the last time I rebuilt the top end.

So I had my local vintage bike mechanic recut the valve seats for me with a nice 3 angle cut and cleaned up the valves too.  Everything looked great until I got the motor back together.  I could no longer adjust the valve clearance on the exhaust valves properly.  I couldn't get enough clearance.  When the valve seats were recut, that removed enough material to actually move the valve upward enough to loose all of my clearance.  Due to the torsion bar valve spring configuration of this motor, the geometry of the valve train does not allow much variance.  The proper thing to do is to shorten the valve stem to compensate for the seat movement.  I didn't really know this at the time and I already had the engine back together.  So I did the dumb thing and ground the tips of the cam followers down instead.  I didn't polish or harden them or anything.  I just attacked them with a grinding wheel and put them back in.  At least they lasted a few thousand miles until I could do it the right way.

In the picture below you can see the two mutilated followers on the left with impressions from the valves, compared to the good one on the right.




The cylinder head is off to the machine shop to get the valve seats cleaned up again with new valve guides and valve seals going in.  The valves will also be shortened to the appropriate length.

Next up is to get the cases cleaned and blasted so the bottom end can go back together.

Offline Flugtechnik

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    • Nixon and Me
Re: Nixon, 1972 Honda CL450 Scrambler Refurb
« Reply #38 on: Sep 27, 2016, 21:49:55 »
And then, when you are getting a new hot water heater put in, one of the installers accidentally breaks a pipe and water pours all over your workbench and disassembled engine for 5 minutes while they run around and try to find the shutoff valve for the house.   >:(

Luckily most of it was sealed in bags.

Drying in the sun.


Offline xulf13

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Re: Nixon, 1972 Honda CL450 Scrambler Refurb
« Reply #39 on: Sep 27, 2016, 21:52:10 »
Good progress ! Sorry about your mini flood!


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