Nixon, 1972 Honda CL450 Scrambler Refurb

Re: Nixon, A 1972 Honda CL450 Scrambler

Since the carbs changed between 71 and 72 I think a lot of people got incorrect carb rebuild kits and we are seeing the results. Although, I can't understand why you would rebuild one carb and not the other. I guess some people are pretty cheap.

Back to the engine dismantling....

I took the cylinders off. You can still see most of the cross-hatching from when I had the cylinders honed a few thousand miles ago. Nice!

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However, I think I might have found my problem. The right piston (in the left in the pic) clearly has more carbon buildup on it. It also has a broken ring! No bueno. I will get the cylinders measured and inspected to see if I need to go up a size or just get new rings.

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I also took the stator cover and starter off.

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And I took the clutch cover off.

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Re: Nixon, A 1972 Honda CL450 Scrambler

Mmmm...engine rebuild time. Tasty.

I believe that a Dyna S ignition meant for a GL1000 can be modified to work for a CB450. If that's so I would highly recommend it. I've got one on my GL. I had one die last year, I contacted Dyna and told them I thought it was bad, they had me send it in and tested it. The contacted me and said that it had failed but that it was thirty years old. They sold me a replacement at cost, about half of retail. Very solid unit and a company that stands behind their product.
 
Re: Nixon, A 1972 Honda CL450 Scrambler

I will look into the dyna ignition. I saw that Dime City sells it. Can you adjust the two pickups seperately? I was considering getting the one from Charlies Place ( http://www.charlies-place.com/shop/electronic-ignition-fits-65-74-cbcl450-and-75-76-cb500-twins/ ). No modification needed but it is more expensive.


The mail man brought some things!

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The carbs had a spa day, spent some time in the ultrasonic cleaner, a seafoam rub down to restore the finish and two rebuild kits to freshen up the brass bits.

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Hopefully having the same parts in both carbs will fix some of the problems. I have a good variety of jets now so I will be able to tune them once it is running again. I am going to start with the stock 145s.
 
I will be following your rebuild closely. Probably i'll be doing the same thing this winter.

Keep us posted so we can learn how to do it.
 
In!


Good to see Nixon is getting a refresh. Can't wait to see it done.


What are the tires you are running?
 
ahh so this is the bike that E was telling me about that flipped down a cliff on the way to meltdown.. good to see it coming back together again, and glad you recovered =)
 
hurco550 said:
ahh so this is the bike that E was telling me about that flipped down a cliff on the way to meltdown.. good to see it coming back together again, and glad you recovered =)

This is the one! I don't know how many lives it had before me so I don't know how close it is getting to the limit of 9.
 
The pickups on the Dyna can be adjusted separately. One pickup is considered fixed, you move the whole plate to adjust it, but there is a way to even move it separately if needed. For some reason the pictures you posted didn't load for me and that link doesn't work.
 
To keep things moving along, I rebuilt the starter. It didn't really need it, but I don't want to have to mess with it again.

I bought a rebuild kit that had a surprising number of new parts with it. The only parts I didn't replace with the kit were the planetary gear bushings. The original ones seemed to have a slightly tighter fit than the new ones and they were in near perfect condition.

arrowhead_starter_motor_rebuild_kit_repair_set_honda_cb450_cl450_cb500t_SMU9136_46_3809__38359.1430350201.750.750.jpg



Who knew these things had so many parts!

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I had to repaint the casing due to some scratches so I had to bake the enamel again, 200 degs for 60 minutes.

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Back together and looking fresh.

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The rotor puller I ordered came in so I was able to get the generator rotor and starter clutch off. All looks good there so it will just get a cleaning before going back on.

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Took the clutch apart and the friction discs were on the low side. Steel discs were fine. Clutch springs were at the bottom of the service limit. New friction discs and clutch springs will go back in.

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All looked good with the clutch basket as well. Minimal wear.
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The oil filter nut refused to come off even after I bent all the lock washer tabs back. I had to borrow my dad's impact wrench to get it loose. Once that was off I was able to get the oil pump and clutch basket off. The oil pump has a little bit of wear from the piston pin but I am probably going to replace it with a rebuilt one. Most of the updgrades I will be doing to the engine will be oiling related and it all starts with a good oil pump.

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The shifting lever is cracked in two places just below the shift drum. I will either find a good used one or get this one repaired.

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Then, I took out all of the case bolts. I whacked the cases with a rubber mallet a bunch of times until the case sealant split. The cases came apart and I was finally able to see into the deep dark reaches of the engine. What I found was good and bad.

The bottom case had a good buildup of sludge and other bits. The large chunks of stuff in there are from the old cam damper rubber rings that disintegrated. I replaced those the last time I rebuilt the top end. Now I can clean all of those bits out.

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I took some time to sit down and study the transmission so that I understood how it all worked. Seeing it in motion made things much clearer. Now that I know exactly how it works, I know where to look for damage and wear, and it will be easier to put it back together.

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All of the gear teeth looked fine and there was minimal wear on the dogs.

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I took the gears out and inspected the shift forks and drum. There was very little play and the shift fork thicknesses were within spec.

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As I was inspecting the shift drum, I found the reason it was popping out of second gear. The "star gear" on the shift drum that works in concert with the large detent wheel is very worn. This is what hold the shift drum in the correct position for each gear. In addition to the detents in the drum being worn, the detent wheel itself is worn. Or rather the "axle" pin that holds it is worn and allows the wheel to move like it has an elongated hole. These two things combined made it so that the shift forks did not hold the gears in the proper position to fully engage second gear. Replacement parts will be found or the parts will be repaired.

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How does one do engine work in their living without destroying the place? Add in my situation with the two devices of pure chaos I call my daughters, and I can't see how there wouldn't be oil from floor to ceiling and a gear jammed into the cd tray.
 
Those wheels are easy to fix, the rivet is generally what wears out and almost every one I have seen over the last 4 years has been worn out. Just drill it out and make one out of a bolt, if you have a hand file and hand drill you can make one.

Star wheels are fixable, I've seen may a guy have them welded up and ground back to where they need to be.

Good thing the forks aren't bent, usually end up bending the one that does 2nd once it starts the popping.
 
frogman said:
Those wheels are easy to fix, the rivet is generally what wears out and almost every one I have seen over the last 4 years has been worn out. Just drill it out and make one out of a bolt, if you have a hand file and hand drill you can make one.

Star wheels are fixable, I've seen may a guy have them welded up and ground back to where they need to be.

Good thing the forks aren't bent, usually end up bending the one that does 2nd once it starts the popping.

Yes, I might get lucky and find a wheel that isn't worn out, but I doubt it. Unfortunately I don't have a drill or a file, but I do have a few friends with lathes. I am actually considering redesigning the wheel so it doesn't wear out so fast. I am an engineer so I always like making things better.

I have found a few shift drums on ebay with little to no wear so I am just going to buy one of them. I can't weld so it would probably cost me more to have mine fixed.
 
I found some transmission bits in good shape on ebay. I ended up getting a shift drum star gear and detent roller from a CB500T. They are different part numbers from the CB/CL450 parts for some reason. I'm not really sure what they changed. When the new detent roller came in, I compared it to the old one. It seems to be made out of a different material and the wheel is a bit thicker. The pin it spins on also seems to be a different material or is just pressed differently. Perhaps Honda knew about these parts wearing and redesigned them.

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The "new" start gear has almost no wear.

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I also got lucky and found some cam followers in really good condition. Xulf13 pointed me to a guy parting out one of his motors on HondaTwins.net. I needed these because I did something really dumb the last time I rebuilt the top end.

So I had my local vintage bike mechanic recut the valve seats for me with a nice 3 angle cut and cleaned up the valves too. Everything looked great until I got the motor back together. I could no longer adjust the valve clearance on the exhaust valves properly. I couldn't get enough clearance. When the valve seats were recut, that removed enough material to actually move the valve upward enough to loose all of my clearance. Due to the torsion bar valve spring configuration of this motor, the geometry of the valve train does not allow much variance. The proper thing to do is to shorten the valve stem to compensate for the seat movement. I didn't really know this at the time and I already had the engine back together. So I did the dumb thing and ground the tips of the cam followers down instead. I didn't polish or harden them or anything. I just attacked them with a grinding wheel and put them back in. At least they lasted a few thousand miles until I could do it the right way.

In the picture below you can see the two mutilated followers on the left with impressions from the valves, compared to the good one on the right.

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The cylinder head is off to the machine shop to get the valve seats cleaned up again with new valve guides and valve seals going in. The valves will also be shortened to the appropriate length.

Next up is to get the cases cleaned and blasted so the bottom end can go back together.
 
And then, when you are getting a new hot water heater put in, one of the installers accidentally breaks a pipe and water pours all over your workbench and disassembled engine for 5 minutes while they run around and try to find the shutoff valve for the house. :mad:

Luckily most of it was sealed in bags.

Drying in the sun.

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