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Author Topic: The Worst Ducati in Dallas  (Read 3732 times)

Offline rentedshoes

  • Posts: 201
Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
« Reply #10 on: Aug 17, 2017, 20:49:39 »
So, don't get in the habit of three significant updates a day but I got another one for you fellas.

@Johnu the goal here is ridiculous, badass perfection. Which leads me to my next update.

Remember that box I mentioned?


Well that presents a bit of a tale. You see, Ducati, in pursuit of a quickly removable gas tank made the air box part of the gas tank mount. Which is plastic. It's the rubber grommet just behind the ignition barrel.

Note the little wiener that goes into the hole. It's a cute lil nubbin. ;)


Now, there are tons of options for neat looking filters and intake trumpets but why bother if they are hidden within the airbox? If you ask the Ducatista, the motor runs much better with the air box in tact. There's some ram air bullshit that on the factory bike came in under the headlights. As I'm ditching the ram air setup, because it looks dumb without the factory body work, I began to question the need for the air box. I could easily fab a tubular steel gas tank mount behind the head-tube. I agree that this would be really clean and reasonably trick. Especially if I ditch the ignition barrel that lives just behind the head-tube. However, I can't get past the thought that a couple of pieces of steel is the "cheap way out". I'm not made of money and I certainly don't want to waste it. So the air box stays in some form.


Well, David Mills, it ain't Gweneth Paltrow's severed head.


That, my friends, is a genuine, bonafied carbonfiber air box. Somewhere, David Mills is relieved.

Mounting hardware hasn't arrived yet. Yes, that was missing when I bought the bike. Oh yea, I replaced the fuel lines this evening. Look at that little guy poking out.

And with the intake trumpets. I can't help but think that there is some work to be done with the airbox. I decided to test with the factory airbox first.
Before:

After:

Yes, some other things have been moved around between the pictures. Turns out the headlight assembly is crucial to the bike running. So it will stay until I can remove the key pieces. Right now, I need to keep the bike functional before I really go bananas. Also, you can now see the line on which the seat/tail-section will be created.
Also, there is a visual lightening that happens when you can see through the airbox.

Does that serve the same function as the original airbox? Probably not. But it is an opportunity to create some detail. Perhaps some mesh over the ram air ports. Perhaps not. We'll just have to watch this ugly duc become a swan.
 



1997 Ducati 748 Superbike
2015 Aprilia RSV4 Factory
2006 BMW R1200 GS
2009 Triumph Daytona (SOLD
2006 Monster 695 (SOLD)
1972 CB175 (SOLD)

Offline rentedshoes

  • Posts: 201
Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
« Reply #11 on: Aug 21, 2017, 11:59:08 »
While I’m waiting on parts I’ve been plotting how exactly to handle the seat and requisite frame/subframe mods. As Ducati intended only for it’s horrible “monoposto” rear section fitting anything else is going to take some effort.

Below is the inspiration for my project. Yes, it’s two generations newer but with the older bike I escape all the clunky electronics and wonky anti-theft features.  The bummer with this bike is that I feel that they missed the lines of the saddle. The green paint on the seat pan is below the green line on the tank. Also, much of the trellis frame is obscured by stuff.


Now, I will say that I hope my bike turns out as nice as this one. It truly is beautiful. However, as with anybody else’s project there are things I would have done differently.



The red lines are the trellis main frame. The yellow is the subframe that they fabricated for the café tail. The blue line is the line from the bottom of the tank that transitions to the top of the seat. The issue is that none of these different color lines are parallel or perpendicular. This makes my OCD crazy. I’m sure there are reasons this bike was constructed this way but I really want to avoid these design compromises on my build.

Below is one way of creating a new subframe for the bike that will accommodate a café-inspired tail section. This does involve adding a new tube under the gas tank and running it straight back to the end of the bike. Also, the lower subframe brace would then be parallel to one of the other frame braces.



The upside is that this creates beautiful lines and is a bit of a nod to a featherbed frame. The downside is that this requires two fairly large and complicated tubes to be fabricated and added to the frame. And while this may add a negligible amount to rigidity to the frame, it does have the potential to add some weight.

A similar effect can be achieved in what may be a more simple solution.

By just adding a subframe to the back of the existing mainframe, you are able to forgo fabricating a fairly complicated piece of steel. You are able to achieve lines that will match those that already exist. Also, you leave more of the engine in view. And since having the engine as the centerpiece of the project is the goal, this may be the way to fly. A cool side effect is that the body is able to levitate above the frame. A lot of BMW customs use this effect and it lightens the bike visually.

Option three would be to do something like this 748 by Radical Ducati.

They did basically the same thing I am proposing but perhaps done a little better. As they did not use a stock-shaped tank, they lost that long straight line it generates. They opted to use the line from the frame brace that angles up as it goes back. This brings the tail up in a more modern fashion.  This is a slippery slope because there are some bikes out there that this generates a “V” at the tank/seat junction and can take a laborious project and make it look half-assed.  Also, the angle can be too severe and stick the back end waaaay up in the air.

And finally, perhaps the best way to fly is to utilize both the lines of the tank and frame. After all, many people believe that the 996/748 was the most beautiful Ducati ever made. I disagree; I think the 1098 is the best. Which leads me here.\



Using the factory lines for the body creates lines that are consistent. Using the existing lines of the frame to create a new subframe keeps things simple and avoids adding any new angles into the mix.

I’d love to hear some opinions on which way to go, as I am clearly uncertain.
1997 Ducati 748 Superbike
2015 Aprilia RSV4 Factory
2006 BMW R1200 GS
2009 Triumph Daytona (SOLD
2006 Monster 695 (SOLD)
1972 CB175 (SOLD)

Offline Popeye SXM

  • Posts: 58
  • Also used for MX
Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
« Reply #12 on: Aug 21, 2017, 14:10:56 »
I lov'in your project. I don't like the Radical duc, I prefer your tank especially if you want a "cafe racer". I would go for option number 2, (as drawn over your bike). I like the green bike (not the color) I agree they didn't get the seat/ tank right

Offline johnu

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Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
« Reply #13 on: Aug 21, 2017, 16:28:07 »
Personally I think the radical Ducatis are the best custom Ducs I've seen!  Imho I would not be trying to create that typical cafe straight line seat/tank alignment that you seem to be looking for.  I am interested to see which way you go.  All I would say is don't choose one option over the other because it is easier to accomplish :)

Offline RR100

  • Posts: 56
Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
« Reply #14 on: Aug 21, 2017, 17:57:59 »
Personally I think the radical Ducatis are the best custom Ducs I've seen!  Imho I would not be trying to create that typical cafe straight line seat/tank alignment that you seem to be looking for.  I am interested to see which way you go. 

Agreed. Pepo's Duc's are beautiful. The Straight lines tank-to-seat one frequently sees, to my eye, seem more a limitation of fabrication skills than optimum aesthetics. In any event, watching with interest.

Offline Alex jb

  • Posts: 280
Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
« Reply #15 on: Aug 24, 2017, 18:11:14 »
Great to see consideration going on not just hack and hope :)


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Offline johnu

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Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
« Reply #16 on: Aug 24, 2017, 20:51:31 »
Great to see consideration going on not just hack and hope :)


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Probably not too many people just hacking Ducatis ;D

Offline johnu

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Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
« Reply #17 on: Aug 24, 2017, 23:48:03 »
Not to hijack you thread or anything but this is my fav radical Duc aside from the 3 spoke wheels of course :D  You are very lucky to be building a custom Duc and I look forward to more updates on the build whichever direction you go with it :)

Offline teazer

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Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
« Reply #18 on: Aug 25, 2017, 13:02:25 »
I am a big fan of carbon fiber, but not a fan of tiny headlamp shell bubble butt seats.  To me, they look out of proportion and don't match the frame style or the tank.

Style is a personal thing and what looks right to one of us may look like crap to someone else, so these are just my thoughts.

The frame is OK as is and it may even be possible to keep the subframe if you kept the underseat pipes, but with a different shaped seat hump. If you go with low pipes, the back end of the subframe might be hanging out there behind thr seat hump.  The subframe has a nice curve which could be incorporated into the seat shape or hidden if you go with a more vertical seat back.

With a bread box tank the seat probably needs to have some "squareness" to it so I'm thinking an updated version of the old 750SS Imola seat - restyled to work better with the tank.  Or perhaps an MHR (original) inspired seat shape. The tank sets the tone for the overall shape/style and the rest has to work with it. Square or round, long or short, fairing or not, low pipes or underseat or high level

That's a thought.  High level pipes like an SS - something like this one in principle. http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Classic%20Racers/Ducati%20750%20SS%20Corsa%2075.jpg


With the frame, I would not alter the main frame.  And the subframe doesn't have to have the table top/Featherbed look in steel.  It can be implied by matching the seat and tank lines without cutting metal. I'd probably change the frame color to black with any color bodywork or red with silver just because it reminds me of the best looking Norton 650Ss cafe racer I remember from the sixties.

Offline esmoojee

  • Posts: 166
Re: The Worst Ducati in Dallas
« Reply #19 on: Aug 25, 2017, 14:20:19 »
Just out of curiosity, what caused your back wheel to lock?