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Author Topic: So lost...CB360  (Read 1689 times)

Offline Cursh

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So lost...CB360
« on: Sep 25, 2017, 21:29:24 »
Pardon my posting this before I have enough information. I'm partially posting it because I'm wrenching in a vacuum and need a sanity check. I'm also posting this because the progress I'm seeing on this (ancient frustrating decade-long) build is measurable, but the failure point seems to be fairly stoic.

At this point, I've already fucked up everything on the bike. It's not worth wondering if I've been in there to mess it up. I have. I haven't cracked the cases. That's the final frontier.

Last weekend I came to the destructive realization that my regulator/rectifier wasn't cutting the mustard. A shiny new electronic ignition from pamco Pete (thanks, Pete). bit the dust and the bike stopped running promptly somewhere down the street within a reasonable distance to push the paperweight home. Having overstayed what I believed to be a reasonable amount of user caused electronic ignition failures and warranty claims, I moved on to something that I was hoping would be easier to poke at and see if it was working.

I order a Charlie's Place ignition and regulator/rectifier to install on my bike: comes in, I wire it in (using vintage connectors latching connectors and 16 ga wiring and the bad-ass crimper tool, and fancy sleeving and all that jazz.)

The bike fires right up. I tepidly ride it around the neighborhood and with growing confidence ride it further and further from the house in concentrically large loops of blocks. The bike pulls all the way to redline (for the first time in years.) and the exhaust note is that of a singer sewing machine (in textiles we trust.) I bring it back to the house and park it on the street, proud to display my triumph.

Next morning, I hop on to head to the post office (5 miles round trip, which is nothing in Phoenix, but maybe too far for my second trip?) The thing rides just as well as the day before. Nice acceleration. Smooth sounding engine. No hesitation or stumbling. Get to the post office and it dies while waiting to take a left turn across traffic. I push it into the lot, drop off my packages, and poke around.

I forgot my tools so I head home. I'm hoping I flooded the engine or something and that when I head back it will run.
<embarrasing bus ride home with helmet>
I head back around 3pm (it was 10am when the bike died) and I've brought my tools. I poke around. There is power to the ignition system and the coils (CHECK) there is fuel in the carburetors (CHECK) and there is some sort of 9V signal going to where the points connect to the coils (I didn't bring my test light, so I had trouble seeing if they light up and dim appropriately through the kickstart cycle). 12.8 V from the battery (should be plenty to get her going. 12.6 starter her this morning).

No idea what is going on. My first plan is to see if I fried the electronic ignition (when I get back with a test light.)

Here is the list of things that I have personally done in the past 25 miles of this thing moving down the road (and in the last 6 months of real time. I also get that "personally" is probably the problem here.)

Carburetor boot replacement & carburetor sonic cleaning (purple green and distilled water.)
new wiring harness (custom, but gets the power to the place that matters)
New rectifier Regulator.
Valves Set
Timing Set (very well, if the running of the thing can be used as a metric)
Cam Chain Tensioner Replaced
New Coils
New Spark Plugs (Pulled them and they are the right color.)
New Ignition Switch (can't be the problem. Coils are getting power)
Carburetor Synch

Any thoughts? I know this is a game of "what is the easiest to check vs the most likely to be wrong" but I'm at my wits end. Carburetor blockage? It died so anemically and won't fire on either side. That feels like an ignition issue.

If I've fried another electronic ignition with the new regulator/rectifier (matched by the manufacturing company) how in the bloody hell did I do it and how do I keep from doing it again in the future?

Any help is appreciated.

Photo as a thanks for reading the tome:
« Last Edit: Sep 25, 2017, 21:46:22 by Cursh »
If you see me f**cking up it's because I have no idea what I'm doing. You can either tell me I'm fucking up or watch me find out on my own. Both are appreciated.

75 CB360 project.
73 MGB
Bicycle enthusiast.
2009 MBC Street Fixie
2016 Retrospec Folding Speck
www.instagram.com/cursh

Offline irk miller

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Re: So lost...CB360
« Reply #1 on: Sep 25, 2017, 21:40:39 »
I say start simple: 

Did you check all of your fuses?  When you kick it over (do it with your foot, not the switch), does it spark?  Pull the plugs and check.  If it does, then your coils and fancy new ignition is probably fine.  Re-install the plugs and pull their wires.  Try starting it up a few times.  You can keep trying to start it with your foot so you don't use up too much battery power or overheat the wires to your starter solenoid.  Are the coils wet?  If so, than your fueling may not be an issue.  Check timing and valve clearances. 

Offline trek97

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Re: So lost...CB360
« Reply #2 on: Sep 25, 2017, 23:58:41 »
I say start simple: 

  Are the coils wet?

I think Irk meant to say "are the plugs wet?"

I read you checked gas in the bowls.  But enough gas?  Check to make sure you got good flow through the tap.  Not clogged.
« Last Edit: Sep 26, 2017, 00:03:03 by trek97 »

Offline XS750AU

  • Posts: 329
Re: So lost...CB360
« Reply #3 on: Sep 26, 2017, 01:27:16 »
Quote
I say start simple
+1 on that. First establish is there spark at the plug? If =no then that is where to look further.
 If there is spark, then start looking at fuel. Start from the line into the carbi and progress on from there.
Sorry if it is instructing on egg sucking!!!
“Engineering is the art of being approximately right rather than exactly wrong.”

Yamaha XS750-2D
Yamaha XS896
Husaberg FE550
Yamaha TT250
Yamaha IT200N

Offline teazer

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Re: So lost...CB360
« Reply #4 on: Sep 26, 2017, 10:46:55 »
As was already mentioned, pull the plugs and check for sparks.  If it has sparks, see if they are close to right time - ie check that the ignition rotor didn't move out of place or come loose. 

It's also possible that the carbs sucked in some dirt that is now blocking a jet, so if sparks are all OK, clean the carbs, fuel tap and filler cap (it may have a blocked breather hole). 

Offline Cursh

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Re: So lost...CB360
« Reply #5 on: Sep 26, 2017, 11:22:45 »
Awesome. Thanks for the pointers. I've read that ungrounded plugs can cause a problem for electronic ignition. That's the only reason I didn't check for spark that way yet. Anyone have the over-under on when that becomes a problem? Is that just a "monster in the closet" sort of situation?

Wet coils threw me for a loop. I thought "this is a new trick I've never heard of"

Will post results here for anyone interested. I'm heading out of town and would love to have parts waiting for me when I get back (assuming I can identify the failure and order the correct parts.)

If you see me f**cking up it's because I have no idea what I'm doing. You can either tell me I'm fucking up or watch me find out on my own. Both are appreciated.

75 CB360 project.
73 MGB
Bicycle enthusiast.
2009 MBC Street Fixie
2016 Retrospec Folding Speck
www.instagram.com/cursh

Offline Ryan Stecken

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Re: So lost...CB360
« Reply #6 on: Sep 26, 2017, 11:34:24 »
Let us know if you got spark.good luck!

Offline irk miller

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Re: So lost...CB360
« Reply #7 on: Sep 26, 2017, 12:03:49 »
I've read that ungrounded plugs can cause a problem for electronic ignition. That's the only reason I didn't check for spark that way yet. Anyone have the over-under on when that becomes a problem? Is that just a "monster in the closet" sort of situation?

Wet coils threw me for a loop. I thought "this is a new trick I've never heard of"


Ha!  Yeah, sorry about the wet coils.  If I was smarter, I would've come up with a witty follow up.  As far as testing the plugs, you can find somewhere on the motor to lay them (or clip them) to get grounded and see spark.  Essentially, the spark is going to be looking for a ground. 

Offline Cursh

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Re: So lost...CB360
« Reply #8 on: Sep 26, 2017, 14:41:33 »
Spark on the right. Not on the left. Had to run to the airport before I could dig more. Next steps:
1.double check no spark on left.
2.swap coil blue/yellow wires and recheck both sides for spark. (Tests connections and coils)
3.look for wet plugs (Note dampness of coils)

If you see me f**cking up it's because I have no idea what I'm doing. You can either tell me I'm fucking up or watch me find out on my own. Both are appreciated.

75 CB360 project.
73 MGB
Bicycle enthusiast.
2009 MBC Street Fixie
2016 Retrospec Folding Speck
www.instagram.com/cursh

Offline XS750AU

  • Posts: 329
Re: So lost...CB360
« Reply #9 on: Sep 26, 2017, 19:08:45 »
Quote
I've read that ungrounded plugs can cause a problem for electronic ignition.
If the plugs are not earthed then they will not spark. To earth, simply hold then against one of the cooling fins, or any other bare metal part of the engine. I prefer a shaded location so it is easier to see the spark.
“Engineering is the art of being approximately right rather than exactly wrong.”

Yamaha XS750-2D
Yamaha XS896
Husaberg FE550
Yamaha TT250
Yamaha IT200N