Nixon - '72 CL450 - Updates and Upgrades
- Thread starter Flugtechnik
- Start date
milwaukeephil
Active Member
Re: Nixon - '72 CL450
Yes. And don't use your gas grill or your wife's oven. Ask me how I know.
Tim said:
Yes. And don't use your gas grill or your wife's oven. Ask me how I know.
Flugtechnik
My bike is not transportation, it is a respite
Re: Nixon - '72 CL450
Would sitting in my garage in Georgia in the middle of summer count?
Tim said:
Would sitting in my garage in Georgia in the middle of summer count?
Re: Nixon - '72 CL450
Paint versus Powder, Paint versus Powder, Paint versus Powder. I know powder is great but the frames were painted originally, and honestly, they held up pretty well. So no harm painting again, right? AND we tend to take better care of these old bikes now so the paint should last really well. especially on a frame.
Hey what about the ceramic caliper paints? anybody ever tried that? I know nothing about them just throwing it out there. Do they tend to chip easily? I have heard the appliance paints are good for frames.
Paint versus Powder, Paint versus Powder, Paint versus Powder. I know powder is great but the frames were painted originally, and honestly, they held up pretty well. So no harm painting again, right? AND we tend to take better care of these old bikes now so the paint should last really well. especially on a frame.
Hey what about the ceramic caliper paints? anybody ever tried that? I know nothing about them just throwing it out there. Do they tend to chip easily? I have heard the appliance paints are good for frames.
Re: Nixon - '72 CL450
Tip: get VHT/Duplicolor at PepBoys or Advance Auto Parts. Its something like $6 a can and they can order what they dont have in stock.
The powdercoating will sometimes go on too thick in spots and cause fitment issues. Some things are better off not being powder coated. I've used the VHT caliper paint with great results. However I believe you could get some of the same results from the high temp engine enamel w/ceramic. VHT / Duplicolor have some great products. I use them on a regular basis and have not had a problem yet.diesel450 said:
Tip: get VHT/Duplicolor at PepBoys or Advance Auto Parts. Its something like $6 a can and they can order what they dont have in stock.
Flugtechnik
My bike is not transportation, it is a respite
Re: Nixon - '72 CL450
Looks like Hancock beat me to the punch with the color scheme. Looks great!
Looks like Hancock beat me to the punch with the color scheme. Looks great!
Hancock said:
Flugtechnik
My bike is not transportation, it is a respite
Re: Nixon - '72 CL450
Made some progress taking the engine apart last night. My cam chain breaker came in (props to SportingForLess for super fast shipping) and I was able to get the cam chain apart so I could get the head off. BTW, when they tell you to tie the chain off with wire so it doesn't fall in the engine, don't use electrical wire. Mine broke, but luckily I hadn't pushed the link pin out all the way and it got caught on something before falling down into the deep dark engine case. I grabbed some wire hangers and they worked great.
Got the head off and the pistons and cylinders look OK. I had low compression so I think some new rings and a good honing will do the trick. I'll have to get them measure though to make sure. However, I am considering getting the big bore kit. I'm going to get a price on the cylinder boring and decide then. What's a typical price for that?
The valves look like they have a lot of weird brown colored crud on them. Not carbon, lighter. They are going to need a good cleaning. I could see the one that I bent was not closing all the way. Definitely going to need to be replaced. Next step is to get it out and check the valve guide.
I did find another problem though. I noticed the pin for the cam chain roller that is visible seemed loose. I could actually take it out very easily. Seemed like it wasn't going all the way through the bracket on the other side. After looking up the part online, I realized that the pin shouldn't be removable and that end is supposed to be deformed like a rivet. It looks like that deformed part has popped off. Guess I'm in the market for a new roller. : [edit] Bought.....Ebay to the rescue [/edit] [edit]Damn! Bought the wrong one. [/edit]
How did this thing not explode when I took it up to redline?
Made some progress taking the engine apart last night. My cam chain breaker came in (props to SportingForLess for super fast shipping) and I was able to get the cam chain apart so I could get the head off. BTW, when they tell you to tie the chain off with wire so it doesn't fall in the engine, don't use electrical wire. Mine broke, but luckily I hadn't pushed the link pin out all the way and it got caught on something before falling down into the deep dark engine case. I grabbed some wire hangers and they worked great.
Got the head off and the pistons and cylinders look OK. I had low compression so I think some new rings and a good honing will do the trick. I'll have to get them measure though to make sure. However, I am considering getting the big bore kit. I'm going to get a price on the cylinder boring and decide then. What's a typical price for that?
The valves look like they have a lot of weird brown colored crud on them. Not carbon, lighter. They are going to need a good cleaning. I could see the one that I bent was not closing all the way. Definitely going to need to be replaced. Next step is to get it out and check the valve guide.
I did find another problem though. I noticed the pin for the cam chain roller that is visible seemed loose. I could actually take it out very easily. Seemed like it wasn't going all the way through the bracket on the other side. After looking up the part online, I realized that the pin shouldn't be removable and that end is supposed to be deformed like a rivet. It looks like that deformed part has popped off. Guess I'm in the market for a new roller. :
[edit] Bought.....Ebay to the rescue [/edit] [edit]Damn! Bought the wrong one. [/edit]How did this thing not explode when I took it up to redline?
Herm21
Been Around the Block
Re: Nixon - '72 CL450
Holy crap! Youre right! How in the world did that hold up and not cause catastrophic damage to your motor!!! There must not be enough room in that channel in the head to allow the pin to move out all the way! Unreal!
If youre going to replace one valve, you should prob just do all 4. And dont pay more than $50 per cylinder to have it honed or bored. If you cant get anyone to do it for that price try a marine shop. Those guys do alot of boat motors and will usually charge lots less than a bike or speed shop.
Holy crap! Youre right! How in the world did that hold up and not cause catastrophic damage to your motor!!! There must not be enough room in that channel in the head to allow the pin to move out all the way! Unreal!
If youre going to replace one valve, you should prob just do all 4. And dont pay more than $50 per cylinder to have it honed or bored. If you cant get anyone to do it for that price try a marine shop. Those guys do alot of boat motors and will usually charge lots less than a bike or speed shop.
Yeah you can, but it's very time consuming! Before painting I sanded and polished all the fins. I then taped them all off with painters tape. Then came the time consumption part! I used an exacto knife and very carefully, and sloooowly cut the tape off between each fin, leaving only the polished fin edges taped. Then paint, and later peeled the tape, also very time consuming. Then just quickly go over each fin edge with 800grit to smooth the paint edges a bit. It came out really looking great! This would work well for the brushed finish too, but as I said, its very time consuming!Flugtechnik said:
Flugtechnik
My bike is not transportation, it is a respite
Re: Nixon - '72 CL450
Some more progress. Get the exhaust cam, springs and valves out. I took some channel locks and bent the bent valve back as straight as I could and after about 20 minutes, it finally slid out. I'm glad I didn't have to cut it. I'm going to replace the valve guide while I'm at just to be safe. I don't know if it would fit the new valve anyway. Anybody have any idea where I can find one. They are no longer available from Honda. I saw a set were sold on ebay, but there are none currently for sale. I saw that M3Racing had some bronze ones for sale for $12. I may just get one of those, or four. I think the other valves will be fine once I clean them up. I will get all of the seats redone though.
I also got the cylinders off as well as the pistons and rings. I haven't taken any measurements yet so I don't know what needs to be done. This is starting to get expensive so hopefully it is just new rings and a cylinder hone. I did find a few pieces of black plastic rings in the engine. I'm guessing they are from the cam chain rollers, so I have some digging to do to see what is wrong there.
The bent valve
Some more progress. Get the exhaust cam, springs and valves out. I took some channel locks and bent the bent valve back as straight as I could and after about 20 minutes, it finally slid out. I'm glad I didn't have to cut it. I'm going to replace the valve guide while I'm at just to be safe. I don't know if it would fit the new valve anyway. Anybody have any idea where I can find one. They are no longer available from Honda. I saw a set were sold on ebay, but there are none currently for sale. I saw that M3Racing had some bronze ones for sale for $12. I may just get one of those, or four. I think the other valves will be fine once I clean them up. I will get all of the seats redone though.
I also got the cylinders off as well as the pistons and rings. I haven't taken any measurements yet so I don't know what needs to be done. This is starting to get expensive so hopefully it is just new rings and a cylinder hone. I did find a few pieces of black plastic rings in the engine. I'm guessing they are from the cam chain rollers, so I have some digging to do to see what is wrong there.
The bent valve
CCRider
Coast to Coast
Re: Nixon - '72 CL450
I found little pieces of rubber rings with a square cross section in my oil when I drained it. Mine turned out to be pieces of the O-rings that fit around the cam sprockets (#3 on the camshaft parts fiche pic). Not sure if that's what you mean by the cam chain rollers. I've heard they're notorious for coming apart on 450's.
CC
Flugtechnik said:
I found little pieces of rubber rings with a square cross section in my oil when I drained it. Mine turned out to be pieces of the O-rings that fit around the cam sprockets (#3 on the camshaft parts fiche pic). Not sure if that's what you mean by the cam chain rollers. I've heard they're notorious for coming apart on 450's.
CC
Flugtechnik
My bike is not transportation, it is a respite
Re: Nixon - '72 CL450
Yes, square cross-section. Seemed to be thicker than the cam chain dampers though. The ones on the exhaust cam appeared to be intact. I'll have to check the other side.
Yes, square cross-section. Seemed to be thicker than the cam chain dampers though. The ones on the exhaust cam appeared to be intact. I'll have to check the other side.
Flugtechnik
My bike is not transportation, it is a respite
Re: Nixon - '72 CL450
Took the intake cam and valves out today and yes, the pieces were from one of the cam chain dampers from the intake cam. Guess I have another part to order. I will probably just replace all of them. Anybody know if they come in the gasket kits sold online? I'm guessing not.
Took the intake cam and valves out today and yes, the pieces were from one of the cam chain dampers from the intake cam. Guess I have another part to order. I will probably just replace all of them. Anybody know if they come in the gasket kits sold online? I'm guessing not.
Flugtechnik
My bike is not transportation, it is a respite
Re: Nixon - '72 CL450
I got the rest of the head disassembled and all of the parts bagged and tagged. I bought a used cam chain roller and a new valve off of ebay to replace the broken/bent ones. I spent last weekend cleaning off all of the mating surfaces that will be getting new gaskets. There was some old gasket glue on them and I wanted them to be clean, smooth. I also cleaned off all of the buildup in the combustion chambers and in the valve ports. When I cleaned out the exhaust ports, 35 years worth of carbon dust came billowing out. Good thing I did that outside. I also noticed that the exhaust valve seats were pretty cruddy. I think they were not seating right which might have led to some of my low compression and poor engine performance. Although it is hard to see in the picture below, there was a whole lot of crud baked on there.
I also painted some of the other parts I had previously cleaned and given the brushed metal finish to. The brushed metal parts are painted with a clear high heat engine enamel and the satin black parts are painted with a black high heat engine enamel. I didn't want to stick my parts in my oven so I hung them in front of a small space heater I had for about 20 minutes each. The second picture is the tachometer being "baked". They got too hot to touch and hopefully that is enough to cure the enamel. I still have some more parts to do as well as the carburetors.
I got the rest of the head disassembled and all of the parts bagged and tagged. I bought a used cam chain roller and a new valve off of ebay to replace the broken/bent ones. I spent last weekend cleaning off all of the mating surfaces that will be getting new gaskets. There was some old gasket glue on them and I wanted them to be clean, smooth. I also cleaned off all of the buildup in the combustion chambers and in the valve ports. When I cleaned out the exhaust ports, 35 years worth of carbon dust came billowing out. Good thing I did that outside. I also noticed that the exhaust valve seats were pretty cruddy. I think they were not seating right which might have led to some of my low compression and poor engine performance. Although it is hard to see in the picture below, there was a whole lot of crud baked on there.
I also painted some of the other parts I had previously cleaned and given the brushed metal finish to. The brushed metal parts are painted with a clear high heat engine enamel and the satin black parts are painted with a black high heat engine enamel. I didn't want to stick my parts in my oven so I hung them in front of a small space heater I had for about 20 minutes each. The second picture is the tachometer being "baked". They got too hot to touch and hopefully that is enough to cure the enamel. I still have some more parts to do as well as the carburetors.
Flugtechnik
My bike is not transportation, it is a respite
Re: Nixon - '72 CL450
Slowly making progress.
Guages - done
carbs - done
Still cleaning stuff on the engine and lots of other parts. I am currently focused on the swingarm. It will have the brushed metal finish so I am cleaning all the paint off and trying to remove all the rust. I also got some bronze bushings for it. I had to get a mechanic to get the old bushings out, because they wouldn't budge with the tools I had.
I also got the cylinder head back from the mechanic with the new valve guide installed and reamed and all the valve seats cleaned up. He told me one of my cam followers was bad so now I need to find a new one. Once I get a gasket kit, I can start reassembling the head. Well, I guess I should paint it first.
Slowly making progress.
Guages - done
carbs - done
Still cleaning stuff on the engine and lots of other parts. I am currently focused on the swingarm. It will have the brushed metal finish so I am cleaning all the paint off and trying to remove all the rust. I also got some bronze bushings for it. I had to get a mechanic to get the old bushings out, because they wouldn't budge with the tools I had.
I also got the cylinder head back from the mechanic with the new valve guide installed and reamed and all the valve seats cleaned up. He told me one of my cam followers was bad so now I need to find a new one. Once I get a gasket kit, I can start reassembling the head. Well, I guess I should paint it first.
Flugtechnik
My bike is not transportation, it is a respite
Re: Nixon - '72 CL450
Putting the clear on the brushed parts. The brushed finish is turning out even better than I had hoped. I'll take some good quality shots when I get the head assembled. Who knows when that will be.
Putting the clear on the brushed parts. The brushed finish is turning out even better than I had hoped. I'll take some good quality shots when I get the head assembled. Who knows when that will be.
Flugtechnik
My bike is not transportation, it is a respite
Re: Nixon - '72 CL450
So I have been spending lots of late nights cuddled up in front of the TV with Nixon, massaging her with my Dremel tool.
Here's a taste of what's to come. I'll post a lot more pics when I get the engine back together sometime next month. I hope the hotel I'll be staying at doesn't mind me working on an engine in my room. It's hard to find temporary housing with a garage.
So I have been spending lots of late nights cuddled up in front of the TV with Nixon, massaging her with my Dremel tool.
Here's a taste of what's to come. I'll post a lot more pics when I get the engine back together sometime next month. I hope the hotel I'll be staying at doesn't mind me working on an engine in my room. It's hard to find temporary housing with a garage.
tWistedWheelz
BUILT NOT BOUGHT!
Re: Nixon - '72 CL450
Nice touch Flug, the glass of wine by her bits on the floor. You may be spoiling her already!
Nice touch Flug, the glass of wine by her bits on the floor. You may be spoiling her already!
Flugtechnik
My bike is not transportation, it is a respite
Re: Nixon - '72 CL450
I don't drink wine unless I have to. That's a dirty martini! Notice the olives. I didn't have a martini glass and that was as closest thing I could find.
I don't drink wine unless I have to. That's a dirty martini! Notice the olives. I didn't have a martini glass and that was as closest thing I could find.
tWistedWheelz
BUILT NOT BOUGHT!
Re: Nixon - '72 CL450
I got you; sorry I did not pay very close attention to that! I thought you posed the pic as if that were Nixon's glass of wine!
I got you; sorry I did not pay very close attention to that! I thought you posed the pic as if that were Nixon's glass of wine!
Flugtechnik
My bike is not transportation, it is a respite
Re: Nixon - '72 CL450
No, that's just my late night motorcycle building fuel. I've been working 12 hr days so I don't get home until around 10 at night. The vodka is kind of a self timer. When I can't focus on the parts anymore, it's time to go to bed.
No, that's just my late night motorcycle building fuel. I've been working 12 hr days so I don't get home until around 10 at night. The vodka is kind of a self timer. When I can't focus on the parts anymore, it's time to go to bed.
