"La Pastinaca" CB450 498cc Big Bore Engine Built By DWMS Racing!

Re: "La Pastinaca" CB450 New photos! Cases back togethor

Man! I am away from the computer for one day and miss all of the action! Hahahaha!

I do not see where any one person caused anything and as I mentioned earlier as much as I love them this is why I normally try to stay away from getting into overtechnical discussions as sometimes differing opinions end in hurt feelings and I would never want that for anyone here. I do however thoroughly enjoy a good technical discussion as well as reading everyones thoughts, experiences, and opinions.

Brother Rip-It-Up do not leave, you have commented and complimented my work on several threads here and I would like to thank you for that. Brother Teazer has a rich wealth of knowledge to share and helps a lot of members here. When I first joined dotheton he and I used to debate quite often...to the point that I used to jokingly call him my heckler! Hahahaha! but he knows I did not mean anything by it and I think that if you take the time to get to know him as I have you will come to view him, as well as Brothers Swagger, Revheadgl, Habanero52, Vonyinzer, and the rest of the crew whom has posted here and many other members who have not, with the same great admiration and respect that I do.

I tested the waters on a lot of different forums for quite a while and trust me when I say you will not find a better group of Brothers that are willing to share knowledge and support one another than you will find right here on dotheton so stay with us and share your knowledge and experiences with us and help those that you can. We are all here because we share the love affair with the motorcycle and there truly are a lot of overwhelmingly talented people here!

As far as what has been said about me I would like to thank you all for your kind comments, I could never put into words how much they mean to me or how honored and blessed I am to know and have you, as well as so many others here, as friends and Brothers!
 
Re: "La Pastinaca" CB450 New photos! Cases back togethor

Swagger said:
I like motorcycles!

Hahahaha! Me too!

The machine work on the cylinders for the 498cc big bore conversion is complete! This photo shows the 74mm Henning racing pistons in the cylinders and the copper head gasket that we will be using. Now that the machine work is complete we are going to clean and paint the cylinders satin black to match the engine cases.

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Re: "La Pastinaca" CB450 New photos! 74mm 498cc big bore!

Booyah! hey by chance did you weigh the Henning pistons vs. the OE slugs?
 
Re: "La Pastinaca" CB450 New photos! 74mm 498cc big bore!

Brother Swagger the pistons are similar in weight, without the rings and wristpins a single stock standard sized Honda piston weighs roughly 7 3/4 ounces or 219.7 grams and a single Henning 74mm piston weighs 7 1/2 ounces or 212.6 grams by my scale however Henning advertising says that their pistons weigh 218 grams. I also checked the wristpins for comparison and they are of equal weight.

Here are a couple of photos for comparison with a stock Honda piston on the left and the Henning piston on the right.

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Re: "La Pastinaca" CB450 New photos! 74mm 498cc big bore!

After discussing the cosmetic appearance of the engine some more with Brother Habanero52 we decided to make a change and run the inner stator, sprocket, and clutch cover with a blasted natural aluminum finish and polish the outer stator and oil filter covers as well as the cam bearing and points covers.

I really think that adding the natural aluminum finish as a cosmetic feature will compliment and look very nice with the satin black, polishing, and chrome/stainless bolts as well as giving the engine a nice balance of classic and hot rod styling.

I have been sanding and filing the covers since the engine arrived to smooth the casting lines, scratches, and imperfections and decided to dedicate the time necessary to get the natural finished covers completed this weekend. I completed all of the smoothing and spent a lot of time blasting them today to get a nice uniform finish and color.

Here are a few photos of the covers after I completed the blasting and washed them. I just finished applying a coat of sealer to protect them from oxidation so when it cures I will take a couple photos of them on the engine.

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Re: "La Pastinaca" CB450 New photos! 74mm 498cc big bore!

Joey, thanks for the info/pics....that's pretty useful. Looks like Henning et al compensated for the weight of the extra dome height by cutting back on skirt length. Do they give a spec for cylinder clearance or just go by OE?

Also, gotta commend you on your drilling pattern for the sprocket cover...too many look bad due to misaligned holes. That's a nicely uniform grid. Well done. Good choice on the sandblasted as well, I've been planning the same treatment on some of the smaller parts for Sakura's engine. What did you use for a sealer? I was planning on clear epoxy after a bath in muratic....
 
Re: "La Pastinaca" CB450 New photos! 74mm 498cc big bore!

Swagger said:
Joey, thanks for the info/pics....that's pretty useful. Looks like Henning et al compensated for the weight of the extra dome height by cutting back on skirt length. Do they give a spec for cylinder clearance or just go by OE?

Also, gotta commend you on your drilling pattern for the sprocket cover...too many look bad due to misaligned holes. That's a nicely uniform grid. Well done. Good choice on the sandblasted as well, I've been planning the same treatment on some of the smaller parts for Sakura's engine. What did you use for a sealer? I was planning on clear epoxy after a bath in muratic....

You are very welcome Brother, I am always more than happy to share information. To look at the Henning pistons, even with the shorter skirt length, I would have thought that they may have been heavier than stock due to them having so much extra material in the dome as well as the wristpin bosses but they really did a good job keeping the weight down. The piston box says to clear .0020 but after speaking with Buff Harsh he recommended .0025 so that is the clearance that I went with.

I would love to take credit for the drilling on the sprocket cover but to be honest it was already drilled when I received the engine from Brother Habanero52, the drilling looked fresh so he may have done it or had it done...I have been meaning to ask him about that!

I am happy that you like the blasted look and again to be honest as many exotic paint jobs and polished parts that I do flat black and natural cast are actually two of my favorite cosmetic choices! Here at the shop not many folks will let me do their engines that way though as most everyone wants custom paint and mirror polish!

For the sealing of the covers Brother Habanero52 wanted to test the Shark Hide and as I have been considering testing it myself as well I happily agreed so he purchased a can for us to try. I did a lot of research on it and everyone that I have been able to find that has used it seems to have been very satisfied with it. I used it today to seal the blasted covers...it has the consistancy of water and you simply wipe it on with a cloth, it evaporates almost instantly and leaves a film that protects the aluminum which is transparent. The instructions call for a 24 hour cure time before applying a second coat however I just checked them and they are dry to the touch and the covers have a satin look to them. When I applied the Shark Hide it did darken the color of the aluminum a little, similar to as if it was wet. The inner stator cover and sprocket cover look nice however the clutch cover looks a little splotchy or almost has a stained look similar to wood so I am going to have to let it cure and see if that goes away, it has a nice patina look to it but it does not look as clean as after I blasted it.

revheadgl said:
Joe, That looks really good, funnily enough I was planning on a brushed finish on the covers on the 400. I was thinking of clear anodizing but will wait to see how you clear finish looks first.

Thank you Brother, I am happy that you like it! Man I love what you are doing with the Lime Spider, it is (I almost said she right there...Hahahaha!) looking good! A brushed finish would look really nice!

Cast and brushed finishes from all of us...? Great men do think alike!
 
Re: "La Pastinaca" CB450 New photos! 74mm 498cc big bore!

Brother I am not sure what this 1 quart can cost as Brother Habanero52 purchased it. One can would do a lot of parts as it is thin like water and you just wipe a couple of thin coats on. If it tests well on the polished parts I am going to get some for the shop and can send you some if you like but it is flammable as it has xylene and toulene in it which are paint thinners so it would probably be expensive to ship to your part of the world.
 
Re: "La Pastinaca" CB450 New photos! 74mm 498cc big bore!

Of note, unless there's a new process I haven't heard of (which could be possible) you won't be able to anodize your engine cases Rev. To make aluminum flow nicely during casting it's often alloyed with one of several 'pot' metals like zinc or tin. Unfortunately these act as inclusions and during the acid bath portion of the anodize process, rather that opening surface scale the inclusions burn away destroying the entire piece. Also, in the case of porous 30 year old Japanese engine pieces, they'll be contaminated by motor oil and carbon.

There is one anodizing process for cast aluminum in truth but it yields a yucky brownish coating for anti corrosion purposes.
 
Re: "La Pastinaca" CB450 New photos! 74mm 498cc big bore!

Thank you all for the comments!!!!
The drill pattern was an easy task. I layed the pattern out on a piece of graph paper: photocopied it onto a matt finish clear adhesive sheet; cut the pattern to fit the area; adhered to the cover and then just went to town drilling. That was all! ;D
As for the SharkHide I purchased it from a marine supply store on line. The cost was around $50.00. This type of product can not be shipped via airfreight due to it's volatility.
As for anodizing cast aluminum, I could not find a process that would give me the results that I was looking for, thus choice of SharkHide.
I think that this engine will be a master piece based on the amount dedication that Joey has put into it! ;D :)
 
Re: "La Pastinaca" CB450 New photos! 74mm 498cc big bore!

Habanero52 said:
The drill pattern was an easy task. I layed the pattern out on a piece of graph paper: photocopied it onto a matt finish clear adhesive sheet; cut the pattern to fit the area; adhered to the cover and then just went to town drilling. That was all! ;D

I have to agree with Brother Swagger and say that you did a beautiful job!
 
Re: "La Pastinaca" CB450 New photos! 74mm 498cc big bore!

Thanks!! It means a to to me that you guys liked the pattern. :-[ :) ;D
 
Re: "La Pastinaca" CB450 New photos! 74mm 498cc big bore!

Awesome build so far. A little OT, but do any of you cats know if they make a 'big bore' kit for the cb500t? If they can bump a 450, I'm ASSuming they could do the same for a 500.

muchas gracias!
 
Re: "La Pastinaca" CB450 New photos! 74mm 498cc big bore!

Useful Idiot said:
Awesome build so far. A little OT, but do any of you cats know if they make a 'big bore' kit for the cb500t? If they can bump a 450, I'm ASSuming they could do the same for a 500.

muchas gracias!


I believe the 500t and the 450 are the same bore. The difference is in the stroke. So the 450 pistons should work in your 500t but I would be concerned with clearance issues.
 
Re: "La Pastinaca" CB450 New photos! 74mm 498cc big bore!

I think that the piston set that is listed is for a four cylinder.
 
Re: "La Pastinaca" CB450 New photos! 74mm 498cc big bore!

Hey Useful,
The link given was actually for the CB500/550 4cylinder. To overbore a 500T, simply nab yourself a set of overbore pistons for the 450. You'll need to have the skirts machined back to clear the crank due to the 500T having a longer stroke thus the extra ccs. Depending on the pistons you may need to relieve material around squish band, usually done by turning the piston on a lathe. You may also be able to account for it with a thicker base gasket but whatever you do you'll want to assure clearance and remember that the rods stretch a bit at higher rpms.

74mm pistons will yield ~550cc and a solid boost in compression. If you're using OE overbore pistons I believe (don't have my notes in front of me) the static compression will fall somewhere right around 10-1 (due to the difference in wrist pin to ring land height) so as long as your carbs are tuned decently you can run pump gas just fine. A mild cam regrind and some port cleanup make for a nice boost in performance.
 
Re: "La Pastinaca" CB450 New photos! 74mm 498cc big bore!

I apologize for the error. My bad!
 
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