Powder Coat or Paint Comstars?

crazypj said:
The problem isn't wheels, the problem is Comstar wheels.
They have issues even if you don't mess with them

Sorry for the hijack.. How about them PJ? I'm currently busting my nuts over spoked or commies.
Cant decide.. commies asre cheap to coat, no spokes to lace.. instant clean.
spoked wheels are expensive to refurbish with the new spokes and all..

going to the coater next week or so, please educate me :)
 
Being a fan of the Comstar wheels, the only Factory Service Bulliten I have seen was for the first year Commies on the GL1000 front wheel only, and not for any of the other models or subsiquent years that are now commonly called the "Reverse Comstar" wheel.
AMERICAN HONDA MOTOR CO. Recall ID #44401 - WHEELS
Recall DateSEP 13, 1977
ComponentWHEELS
Motorcycle AffectedGL1000
Potential Motorcycles Affected 796
[/q]Recall Date SEP 13, 1977
Motorcycle Affected1978 HONDA GL1000
Summary UPON FRONT BRAKE APPLICATION, A COMBINATION OF SPEED AND SPECIAL ROAD CONDITIONS MAY CAUSE THE ALUMINUM SPOKE BLADES TO CRACK, EVENTUALLY LEADING TO COLLAPSE OF THE WHEEL.

Consequence. Remedy THE DEALER WILL REPLACE THE FRONT WHEEL, FREE OF CHARGE, ON ALL AFFECTED VEHICLES.
Potential Motorcycles Affected796
Read more: http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/motorcycle_recalls/49/1978/honda/gl1000/44401.html#ixzz2XeQfcs3T
 
Re: Re: Powder Coat or Paint Comstars?

crazypj said:
The problem isn't wheels, the problem is Comstar wheels.
They have issues even if you don't mess with them
o1marc, have you even looked for the Honda service bulletin telling how to check Comstars or faults?

You mean rivet 'fretting'? Have heard a couple of horror stories but didn't realize it was a common problem. I'd be interested in seeing the FSB if you have it.
 
Rivets breaking? What means 'fretting'? But hey, it says the manufacturer will replace them?
 
Re: Re: Powder Coat or Paint Comstars?

Hoosier Daddy said:
Being a fan of the Comstar wheels, the only Factory Service Bulliten I have seen was for the first year Commies on the GL1000 front wheel only, and not for any of the other models or subsiquent years that are now commonly called the "Reverse Comstar" wheel.
AMERICAN HONDA MOTOR CO. Recall ID #44401 - WHEELS
Recall DateSEP 13, 1977
ComponentWHEELS
Motorcycle AffectedGL1000
Potential Motorcycles Affected 796
[/q]Recall Date SEP 13, 1977
Motorcycle Affected1978 HONDA GL1000
Summary UPON FRONT BRAKE APPLICATION, A COMBINATION OF SPEED AND SPECIAL ROAD CONDITIONS MAY CAUSE THE ALUMINUM SPOKE BLADES TO CRACK, EVENTUALLY LEADING TO COLLAPSE OF THE WHEEL.

Consequence. Remedy THE DEALER WILL REPLACE THE FRONT WHEEL, FREE OF CHARGE, ON ALL AFFECTED VEHICLES.
Potential Motorcycles Affected796
Read more: http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/motorcycle_recalls/49/1978/honda/gl1000/44401.html#ixzz2XeQfcs3T

Wonder if that was a heat treat failure or not enough Mg or something else.
 
Re: Re: Powder Coat or Paint Comstars?

Bert Jan said:
Rivets breaking? What means 'fretting'? But hey, it says the manufacturer will replace them?

If the rivets loosen (or weren't tight enough from day one) they will 'fret' against the softer Aluminium and wear larger holes in them
 
Re: Re: Powder Coat or Paint Comstars?

Rich Ard said:
If the rivets loosen (or weren't tight enough from day one) they will 'fret' against the softer Aluminium and wear larger holes in them

Ah ok, like eating their way thru the chocolate cake..
 
Hi Bert, your an engineer if I remember right?
you'll understand and correct me if I get some terminology wrong.
Originally, the front wheels on early models were the main problem, the load reversals during braking / acceleration caused the spokes to deflect as they were designed to do. (cast wheels and Comstars 'stand' the weight on bottom, spoked wheels 'hang' the weight from top)
So, 'wire wheels' are in tension but Comstars are in compression.
The rims and rivets were anodized, but, during installation the anodizing could get scratched on stainless 'spokes' or installation machinery
If (when) wheels get wet, water gets centrifuged into the 'space' between the fabricated parts if you ride bike (washing has same effect, except now you add corrosive chemicals)
Electrolytic corrosion weakens rivets, they don't fail catastrophically but they do work loose, I think the bulletin came out around 8 months after the bikes with Comstars were launched
If your living in 'frozen north' the water can freeze and stress rivets
The later all alloy wheels with 'reverse spoke' design were much better put together but you still have a long thin triangle standing on end with pressure from hub pushing towards rim trying to stretch rivets.
Honda put out all sorts of safety warnings to dealers not to modify or attempt truing/re-building of Comstars, and they dropped them in favor of fully cast wheels
Comstars are a good idea in theory, but the street use of them negated any weight/cost advantage they should have had

Stopped to get something to eat, started typing, bunch of new replies ;D
I don't remember seeing the recall but I was in Britain then, a full recall is way more serious than a service bulletin (it REALLY serious)
 
crazypj said:
Hi Bert, your an engineer if I remember right?
you'll understand and correct me if I get some terminology wrong.
Originally, the front wheels on early models were the main problem, the load reversals during braking / acceleration caused the spokes to deflect as they were designed to do. (cast wheels and Comstars 'stand' the weight on bottom, spoked wheels 'hang' the weight from top)
So, 'wire wheels' are in tension but Comstars are in compression.
The rims and rivets were anodized, but, during installation the anodizing could get scratched on stainless 'spokes' or installation machinery
If (when) wheels get wet, water gets centrifuged into the 'space' between the fabricated parts if you ride bike (washing has same effect, except now you add corrosive chemicals)
Electrolytic corrosion weakens rivets, they don't fail catastrophically but they do work loose, I think the bulletin came out around 8 months after the bikes with Comstars were launched
If your living in 'frozen north' the water can freeze and stress rivets
The later all alloy wheels with 'reverse spoke' design were much better put together but you still have a long thin triangle standing on end with pressure from hub pushing towards rim trying to stretch rivets.
Honda put out all sorts of safety warnings to dealers not to modify or attempt truing/re-building of Comstars, and they dropped them in favor of fully cast wheels
Comstars are a good idea in theory, but the street use of them negated any weight/cost advantage they should have had

I completely understood. Thanks a bunch!
 
After reading the Gold Wing recall,we had issues with CB250/400, CX500, CB750/900f
I guess Europeans are crazier than Americans? ;D (or maybe the 'Wing' was the only one that did enough miles to have a problem?)
 
crazypj said:
After reading the Gold Wing recall,we had issues with CB250/400, CX500, CB750/900f
I guess Europeans are crazier than Americans? ;D (or maybe the 'Wing' was the only one that did enough miles to have a problem?)

NO

http://youtu.be/V000u_tRg94
 
Well, at least he says he's a lazy redneck ;D
It really doesn't take a lot longer to do it properly though (on the single cylinder bikes))
 
crazypj said:
Well, at least he says he's a lazy redneck ;D
It really doesn't take a lot longer to do it properly though (on the single cylinder bikes))

If he would have bought the split-link camchain, it would be ok i guess.
I do not understand how he knows the piston is at TDC looking at the camlobes. The cam and crank were not connected with a chain the moment he checked and he could easily skipped a tooth or 2...
 
crazypj said:
The problem isn't wheels, the problem is Comstar wheels.
They have issues even if you don't mess with them
o1marc, have you even looked for the Honda service bulletin telling how to check Comstars or faults?
I don't need to read the bulletin. I am guessing that the wheels have issue from the factory and the heat make just make it pronounce a problem that already exists and probably is doing you a favor by accelerating it before they fail on their own. That's the problem, when something fails everyone is quick to blame the powder coating process instead of the inherent design flaws that caused it.

After reading the bulletin I don't see anything that gets close to being a concern from heating the wheel. The problem was as I explained, it was a POS from the get go.
I also have not advised anyone to coat a Comstar.
 
Rich Ard said:
Point of fact - there are heat treat cycles that run as low as 350F if I recall correctly.

That said - even though Al is a fantastic conductor - 10 min in an oven isn't going to bring the material up to that temperature.
It isn't 10 minutes in the oven, it's 10 minutes at PMT (part metal temp). Even the heat treat cycles at 350 are not for as short of spans as 10 minutes.
 
o1marc said:
I don't need to read the bulletin. I am guessing that the wheels have issue from the factory and the heat make just make it pronounce a problem that already exists and probably is doing you a favor by accelerating it before they fail on their own. That's the problem, when something fails everyone is quick to blame the powder coating process instead of the inherent design flaws that caused it.

Ah, so THATS the problem. I did not understand how pc could make rivets go bad. I'll blast and paint mine then. Thanks all for the info!
 
Bert Jan said:
Ah, so THATS the problem. I did not understand how pc could make rivets go bad. I'll blast and paint mine then. Thanks all for the info!
Your decision makes no sense at all. PC can't make the rivits go bad. I didn't mean that the heat will pronounce the issue, I'm thinking that is what PJ is thinking. I think it makes no difference at all.
 
o1marc said:
Your decision makes no sense at all. I didn't mean that the heat will pronounce the issue, I'm thinking that is what PJ is thinking. I think it makes no difference at all.

Huh? Goddamn language problem.. i'm lost. Powdercoat comstars YES OR NO?
 
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