DO THE TON

Blood Sweat Tears and Grease => Projects => Cafe Racers => Topic started by: johnu on Nov 22, 2010, 23:05:51

Title: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Nov 22, 2010, 23:05:51
Well I see a lot of T500 activity just recently so I guess I might as well present my T500 project!
I just picked up a 71 T500 with a 76 motor in it and it looks like the forks are from a GT500.  It's a bit of a mess but it does run just fine, paid $600 for it, not sure if thats a good or bad deal.  This will be my first bike build project and I will be doing it with my 16yr old son.
Here is the plan so far:
Frame mods to suit mono shock rear, possible geometry change to rake angle, frame bracing.
Use modified FZR swingarm and shock/linkage
Kawi 636 front forks
Run 17" spoked wheels from my KTM supermoto
Fabricate new gas tank, seat pan and tail section
Oil tank under seat hump
Build my own expansion chambers
Totally rebuild the motor and port it while its a part. 
I am sure there will be changes along the way but that's the plan as it stands.  This is a long term project as I have very limited time avialable so updates will likely be few and far between.
 

Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Wingspan on Nov 22, 2010, 23:19:04
Sounds like it'll be one hell of a ride! Can't wait to see it all unfold. :)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Big Rich on Nov 23, 2010, 00:48:41
$600?! I'd say it's a steal. For some odd reason, any old Suzuki's cost an arm and a leg around me. Good luck, I'll be watching this one too.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: perattzi on Nov 23, 2010, 19:37:04
(http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/rockout.gif)

2 stroke militia
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: BicycleBobe on Nov 23, 2010, 23:12:17
Sounds like it's going to be a good build I'm in the processes of gathering an array of parts for the t500 I just bought. So I will be watching to see what ideas I can barrow lol.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 24, 2010, 00:07:52
I honestly didn't realise that there would be much of a following  for two strokes these days.  Glad to see all you guys on here with smokers.

Started sizing up the FZR arm this morning and it will need quite a bit surgery to get it to fit.  I also have to cut off the original swingarm pivot brackets from the frame and fab up some new ones then weld them to the outside of the frame tubes instead of the original inside location.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Cafe-XV750 on Nov 24, 2010, 17:47:18
I'll be watchin ... smoke em if ya got em!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: famousseajay on Nov 24, 2010, 17:55:59
Ive got two of the little brother GT250's.  Would love a 500, or even the 750.  Two smokers rule!  I still even ride a two smoker off road.  ;D  Cant wait to see the progress on this build.  Sounds really cool.  Good luck!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 24, 2010, 22:08:41
Ive got two of the little brother GT250's.  Would love a 500, or even the 750.  Two smokers rule!  I still even ride a two smoker off road.  ;D  Cant wait to see the progress on this build.  Sounds really cool.  Good luck!

Are those the ram air jobs, I remember them well.  I made the switch to 4 stroke offroad bikes but not without a fight ;D
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: famousseajay on Nov 25, 2010, 09:38:22
Are those the ram air jobs, I remember them well.  I made the switch to 4 stroke offroad bikes but not without a fight ;D

Ya the earlier 250's had "ram air" but they found out it actually made the bikes run hotter so they eventually switched back with the later models.  My 74' has the ram air, and the 76' doesnt.  Not to highjack your thread but you can check them out on my build thread (http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=20309.0).
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Titan performance on Nov 27, 2010, 13:08:46
Hello from the UK johnu....allways keen to see what's going on in the T500 cafe section.

We specialise in converting these bikes into cafe racers, but we are clearly not in your league !! This sounds like a real ambitious build....particularly altering the angle of rake....though there is no doubt it needs doing !

It's a great shame there is not the level of enthusiasm in the UK that you guys have.....

Take a look at our T500 thread....."Titan 500 reborn".

Good luck with it, we will be keeping an interested eye on your progress.

Titan Performance.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 27, 2010, 23:42:57
Hello from the UK johnu....allways keen to see what's going on in the T500 cafe section.

We specialise in converting these bikes into cafe racers, but we are clearly not in your league !! This sounds like a real ambitious build....particularly altering the angle of rake....though there is no doubt it needs doing !

It's a great shame there is not the level of enthusiasm in the UK that you guys have.....

Take a look at our T500 thread....."Titan 500 reborn".

Good luck with it, we will be keeping an interested eye on your progress.

Titan Performance.


I  was actually born and lived in the Uk until 1991 when I came to Socal and met my wife here, been here ever since.  I will be basing my tank on a pic I saw on your web photo page...hope you don't mind.  I like your products but I like to build my own stuff as much as possible, biggest downside to this approach is that it will take so long to complete.  I like the satisfaction of looking at things that I have built myself though and I want to hopefully pass on some of my skills to my son who is helping me with the project.
I plan to change the rake angle from 29degrees to around 26.
Thanks for the encouragement.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: teazer on Nov 28, 2010, 01:17:49
Great to see another Smoker here. T/GT500 are great bikes and make enough power to keep you smiling. A few years ago I had the good luck to have a low mileage RZ350 and and equally pristine low miles VFR750 Interceptor. When it came  time to let one go, it was the VFR that went to a new home.  The RZ I still have.  

2 strokes are addictive.  

Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Titan performance on Nov 28, 2010, 08:04:55
Hi johnu......we have no problem with you using an idea from our website....that's what it's there for !

Which tank is it that has taken your eye? I may be able to give you some more info on it.....

regards Titan.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 28, 2010, 20:22:28
Hi johnu......we have no problem with you using an idea from our website....that's what it's there for !

Which tank is it that has taken your eye? I may be able to give you some more info on it.....

regards Titan.

This is the tank I may model mine on.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Titan performance on Nov 29, 2010, 05:03:30
Right....that is a fibre glass TR500 tank which we bought in from a guy over here, who specialises in fibre glass race parts. We actually boughy 2 from him, as, although we intend to make our own alli tanks in the very near future....we are not ready yet, so had to buy these. I realise it's a replica...but it's a shade too long and narrow for my personal taste. However, if you would like some more pictures, let me know.

All the best

Paul.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 29, 2010, 10:52:51
I also thought it was to long but I like the width.  I f you have a pic looking down on the top of the tank that would be great.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: TR500 on Nov 29, 2010, 10:54:37
This is the tank I may model mine on.

Hi Johnu the tank pictured you like is made from a mould taken off of my tank pictured here on one of my TR500 replicas if you need any detail pics of the original or the glass one, drop me a mail at TR500.SUZUKI@btinternet.com, if you change your mind about making I can supply with either a well in the base as per TR or flat for a unmodified road frame.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 30, 2010, 21:05:57
Ok guys, a little bit of progress but not too much.  At least I have some pics though, there are some of the swingarm before surgery and some during (removing 30mm from the width) take no notice of the sharpie lines that was an earlier thought.  Also a couple of the bike semi naked.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Dec 06, 2010, 14:10:22
Well I finally got the swingarm welded back together.  It's now 30mm narrower.  Time to start on the frame mods.  Waiting for Kawi 636 forks to arrive which I  bought on ebay.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: perattzi on Dec 06, 2010, 14:52:40
looks good, did you use some sort of jig to hold it all in place while welding?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Dec 06, 2010, 16:25:34
Yes, it was all clamped down to a 1" thick plate.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Dec 16, 2010, 17:29:55
Finally some progress!  I got the frame bracing in at last.  Next up, cut out the old swingarm pivot mounts and fab and install new for the FZR arm.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Dec 17, 2010, 20:49:20
Well I'm moving along now, I have prepared the frame for the new swingarm pivot/engine mount brackets.  I'll be glad to get the back end done so that I can remove the engine and get that stripped and rebuilt.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: zooke581 on Dec 17, 2010, 21:10:34
That is looking good.  Look forward to how you are going to go about your mounts.  What kind of porting are you going to do to the motor, if any?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Dec 17, 2010, 21:21:44
Thanks.  I would like to get the motor up around 60hp.  I was going to have a go at porting it myself but I doubt if I'll have the time.  I really haven't looked into whats available or what's possible from these motors yet.  I guess it depends on what you're willing to pay!  I don't really intend to spend a fortune on the motor.  I do plan on building my own pipes though.  I really don't like the 70's style (three or four cones with a chunk of 3 1/2" tube in the middle) expansion chambers that much.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: zooke581 on Dec 17, 2010, 23:17:24
If you decide to send it out for porting let me know.  I do that type of work.  But tractability is a must for street riding.  You don't really want a peaky motor for the street with the stock gearbox.  With a peaky motor first gear is so short it becomes pretty much worthless.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Dec 17, 2010, 23:20:20
If you decide to send it out for porting let me know.  I do that type of work.  But tractability is a must for street riding.  You don't really want a peaky motor for the street with the stock gearbox.  With a peaky motor first gear is so short it becomes pretty much worthless.

It will maybe see 500 street miles a year... at most.  Trackdays are what it will be used for mostly.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: teazer on Dec 18, 2010, 01:38:18
Johnu, I'd send the barrels and heads to Zookie. he's stateside and really knows those motors.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: TR500 on Dec 18, 2010, 11:03:14
Hey Johnu, I second what richard said (teazer) eric really is a good engine man, and it would cost you far too much to send to me in the uk.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Dec 18, 2010, 11:20:37
Thanks guys, I guess i've found my tuner then!  TR, you are right about the shipping cost to the UK it has gotten to be very expensive.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Dec 18, 2010, 13:20:55
Johnu, excellent ideas and work.  I also used the FZR mono-shock S/A for an XS650 project back in 02/03 they're great and cheap and easy to find.  I set the front rake at 24 Degrees which is the same as the doner forks (Yamaha R6)  You mentioned 29 down to 26 degrees how did you arrive at that number?
 The modern 636 triple clamps have a great deal less offset than the old T500 this along with the de-raking will also shorten the front end of the wheelbase.
The 17" wheels, how wide are your wheels and what tire sizes will you use?
 I've always been more interested in the chassis than engines.   This is a great project.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Dec 18, 2010, 15:48:29
Gary,  I'll be honest with you I was going to use 24degrees of rake which I think is the same as the 636 that the doner forks are from, however I got a little concerned as I thought that maybe it would be a little drastic and thought I would go to 26.  I am still up in the air with the exact specs but I am thinking I will go back to my original plan and use 24*.  The problem is that with using the 17" wheels and the slightly shorter forks it will mean that I will end up with about 8.5* on the swingarm and wanted to use 6* thats even with a slightly lower swingarm pivot point (in line with countershaft center).

To some extent these figures are seat of the pants ideas but I am trying to mimick modern sport bike specs to some degree.  I wish I had a cad drawing of a T500 frame so I could lay everything out on paper first.  I too am more into the frame building rather than the engines.

For my 17" wheels I am going to use my KTM supermoto wheels which are 3.5 x 17f and 5 x 17r, I will have to change the rear to a 4.25" though because of the chain position.  I am looking at moving the counter sprocket out a little though. 

I am not planing to use the linkage shock that came wtih the arm but go linless instead.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Dec 18, 2010, 17:34:16
Sounds like a good plan to me.  I did much the same on my XS650 project.  My idea was to simply transfer the front geometry from the R6 to my project that way the trail would be the same. I used the R6 wheel and brake set up as well it's great BTW.
 In the rear I used the FZR S/A full width but milled the axle slots 1/2" longer for greater length and adjustment range.  I have about 8/9 degrees of swingarm angle.  I figured the more the better as most sport bikes have 12 to 13 degrees.  My S/A pivot is 13.5" from ground.  The rear is mono-shock via the FZR linkage ( 2/1 ratio) and my frame pivot points.  
I used a  Fox Twin Clicker rear shock that I made into ride height adjustable and a correct spring rate.  I also used a SV650 rear wheel that just happens to match the spoke style and color of the R6 front. The rear is 17" x 4.5" and required the counter sprocket to be offset .375" and that turned out to be fairly easy.  In the rear I milled the sprocket carrier by the same amount .375" (along with the shortening of the sprocket bolts) that adds up to .750 total for the left side therefore 1.5" for the entire wheel width.  The SV wheel is 4.5" and the Stock XS wheel was 3.0"  The chain path (520 O ring for extra clearance) is good and no rubbing.  The tire size is 17" x 160 Metzeler Sportec.  Most of the frame (chromoly) is new my design with extensive bracing and the bike only weighs 350#.  This was also my goal to convert an older bike to as much like a tube frame Sportbike as I could.  My bike doesn't wobble or shake at speed so I'm quite pleased.  I hope this exchange is taken as a fun conversation between enthusiasts and not as a puffed up brag.  Sometimes on the internet people get all bent.  My brother has a T500 we are preping for AHRMA so I'll watch your build carefully.
  Cheers, 50gary
 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Dec 19, 2010, 11:38:42
Hey Gary, this is all good stuff.  I like to hear from people with all this great info.  Sounds like we are on the same wave length with our ideas.  Maybe with replies and suggestions from others on the board and people like yourself, I and others can make less mistakes when we hear what you guys have done in the past.  I would like to see a pic of your XS650 if you have one available.
My biggest issue is that I don't have a machine shop available to me anymore as I was laid off from my job (mechanical designer) where I could use all the machines and equipment after work.  Paying someone to machine stuff for me is irritating and of course costly.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Dec 21, 2010, 19:53:38
Well, I decided to remove the motor from the frame today so that I can cut off the center stand brackets.  Two observations; first the engine is a little heavier than I was expecting.  Second the frame is a little lighter than I expected.

Does anyone know where I could find a universal side stand that I can adapt to this bike?

Looks like it's going to be a bugger of a job cutting the head tube off without causing to much damge to the rest of the frame.  I'll remove the stiffener gussets first then go from there.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Dec 21, 2010, 22:51:13
Do you have  jig or some kind of fixture to help with the alignment?  In what order do you plan to do the frame mods?  Do you have a reference point once you cut?  I agree the T500 frame around the head stock is a mess so to say.
     Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: teazer on Dec 21, 2010, 23:53:31
....................

Looks like it's going to be a bugger of a job cutting the head tube off without causing to much damage to the rest of the frame.  I'll remove the stiffener gussets first then go from there.

I must have missed something along the way.  Why are you planning on such drastic surgery? Raise the rear end, drop the front a little, reduce fork offset and I suspect you will end up with as much rake and trail as you can use.

I'd measure things first and see what you actually need to change.  This is one analysis that may help to put things in perspectiive

http://pinkpossum.com/GT750/phattrakka/part4a.htm (http://pinkpossum.com/GT750/phattrakka/part4a.htm)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Dec 22, 2010, 00:53:30
Do you have  jig or some kind of fixture to help with the alignment?  In what order do you plan to do the frame mods?  Do you have a reference point once you cut?  I agree the T500 frame around the head stock is a mess so to say.
     Cheers, 50gary
No jig yet but I will be constructing something.  First I will be installing the new swing arm pivot brackets (before removing the headstock), ref points will be headstock, bottom of chassis rails and rear engine mounting point (engine will be in frame bolted to front two mounting points).  Once I have the swing arm pivots in place they will then become the ref point for relocating the headstock.  This will obviously not be an overnight job.  There will be lots of checking and leveling and shimming, aligning and realigning (I am a bit of a perfectionist).  I enjoy a challenge!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Dec 22, 2010, 01:06:17
I must have missed something along the way.  Why are you planning on such drastic surgery? Raise the rear end, drop the front a little, reduce fork offset and I suspect you will end up with as much rake and trail as you can use.

I'd measure things first and see what you actually need to change.  This is one analysis that may help to put things in perspectiive

http://pinkpossum.com/GT750/phattrakka/part4a.htm (http://pinkpossum.com/GT750/phattrakka/part4a.htm)
Teaser, not sure if you have seen my list of mods or not, but I am going to be using kawi 636 forks and yamaha fzr swingarm.  Great link you attached, I have seen it before and it certainly emphasizes the effects of the various adjustments that can be made.  However I imagine you would have to jack up the rear end substantially to get the rake angle from 29* to 24*.  I am in the process of trying to get all the chasssis dimensions so I can create a cad drawing and go through the geometry that way. 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: teazer on Dec 22, 2010, 12:40:29
Johnu,  That was the point.  With different forks and swingarm my 28/29 degree GT750 was sitting at around 22 degrees  with the swingarm where I want it and that isn't going to work too well.

I'd suggest you bolt on teh forks and front wheel and slip in the swingarm and rear wheel and then start to raise the center on the frame to get the rear end geometry you are looking for and measure the front end. I suspect you will find that you can reach or pass that objective without cutting the front end of the frame.

Plus the front wheel goes from 19 inches to 17 inches so teh front is much lower and if the forks are shorter the front end will be lower again. Just going 19 to 19 with a one inch drop in teh front end and one inch added at the rear took a stock Gt750 too steep.

BTW, 24 is pretty steep for a bike with a relatively bendy frame.  If it comes out to say 5-8 degrees static swingarm droop and say 24-26 degrees of rake it should work, but measure twice and cut once as they say.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Dec 22, 2010, 14:10:35
I like the 24 degree rake simply because that's the sportbike norm.  The design goal (as I understand it) is to achieve as close to sportbike properties in a tube frame as reasonably possible.  Many T500 race guys shorten the standard swingarm to help quicken the steering by making the wheelbase shorter.  I think this is backwards to modern thinking, swingarms are now longer and steering head angles steeper. the current thinking is to load the front more if I understand correctly?  I did a similar project and had very good results.  Plus the challenge is a big part of any project.    Two cents.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Dec 22, 2010, 14:12:10
Teaser, good call.  I have just been playing around with an autocad drawing of the frame, swingarm, forks and 17" wheels and it appears as you say that I may not need to remove the headstock.  I don't really like the fact (asthetically) that the engine and chassis rails will be canted by 5* though.  However I do like that the rear would be a bit higher with the seat unit angling upward slightly.  I'll take your suggestion to bolt up the parts and see what can be achieved and how it looks before cutting anything.  My first priority is to get the swingarm pivot brackets tacked in place so that I can do the mock up.  If I end up going down the route of not cutting and replacing the headstock I will have to source bearings that both fit the 636 forks and the original headstock, any ideas where I could look for these?

All suggestion are greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Dec 22, 2010, 14:20:16
Gary you are correct.  I am trying as much as possible to mimick modern sportbike geometry.  The fzrswing arm is almost exactly the same length as the original arm.  I love doing this stuff, as you say the challenge is a big part of the project for a lot of us.  That being said obviously I will not cut off the head tube if other options bring me to the desired geometry.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Dec 23, 2010, 20:44:18
Did some work on the new swingarm mounting point today. I canted the frame to the spec on my cad drawing which gives me 24* rake angle.  The swingarm is at 10* and doesn't look bad.  The issue of whether or not to cut off the headstock tube is decided because the Kawi fork pivot tube doesn't quite fit through the original that's on the bike.  I will have a new tube made and use the stock Kawi bearings just to keep things easy.  Still can't believe how far away the counter shaft center is from the swingarm pivot!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Dec 24, 2010, 00:39:41
Johnu, you're on the right road in my opinion.  I like the looks thus far, the Swingarm is indeed along way from the countershaft.
 I was thinking simply remove the rear most engine mount, machine the mount off and re-weld another rear mount
That way I could move the S/A pivot forward by 30mm?   That  would be major but doable.  On a more realistic level I would mount the S/A right about where you have the mock up.  I have a plan for our T500 that is to remove the pivot plate as you have done and use four new plates, two per side with a welded in steel boss between each pair of plates.   I would run the plates up to the new angled tube you have already put in place and down to the original tube of course, fairly thin as then each side of the frame tube would be stressed  using chromoly sheet,  Also a cross tube  between the new angled tubes just above the chain.   The other advantage to cutting off the head tube is you can shorten the top tube a bit if need be.   I wouldn't think tire clearence  wil be a problem, with a smaller diameter tire and a more vertical compression path at 24 degrees.  I 'm guess-timating  using a 30" fork length as an average you'll save about 2.635" on de-raking alone and another .5" on the triple clamp offset.  That will be a huge difference.  Did you measure the layout before you took the bike apart?  I would measure the overall Wheelbase and the front wheelbase from the axle to the crankshaft and then crankshaft to the rear axle.  Just tossing out some ideas, this is very interesting to say the least.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: teazer on Dec 24, 2010, 02:58:47
Another thing to check is the chain run.  place a rear hub and sprocket in place and make sure that the chain is clear of the top of the swingarm.

And then check the chain geometry to make sure it creates negative squat at the rear under power - Tony Foale's book or John Robinson's will help there. 

Check with All balls for those bearings.  check the 636 bearing ID and the T500 OD and see if there's something that will work.  The next simple idea is to consider either machining the stem slightly for a smaller lower bearing or making sleeves if the only option is a bearing with the correct T500 OD but larger bore than the stem.

Or have a new stem machined - all easier and cheaper than cutting its head off.




Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: teazer on Dec 24, 2010, 03:06:31
I like the 24 degree rake simply because that's the sportbike norm.  The design goal (as I understand it) is to achieve as close to sportbike properties in a tube frame as reasonably possible.  Many T500 race guys shorten the standard swingarm to help quicken the steering by making the wheelbase shorter.  I think this is backwards to modern thinking, swingarms are now longer and steering head angles steeper. the current thinking is to load the front more if I understand correctly?  I did a similar project and had very good results.  Plus the challenge is a big part of any project.    Two cents.
  Cheers, 50gary

Gary, I'm not sure I totally agree. modern bikes do have steeper steering and less offset and much stiffer frames around the steering head. Engines are mounted further forward to shift teh weight distribution forward and that requires a longer swingarm to maintain a reasonable wheelbase.

What you are seeing on race bikes (apart from copy cat type imitation) is shorter swingrams to make for a more agile bike. The idea is that a shorter wheelbase is more beneficial than the adverse effects of shift in weight distribution.  Longer shocks and slightly shorter front forks cuse the bike to be more nose heavy, so overall it works.

On this bike we have shorter forks, much less offset and stock swingarm, so we have significant forward movement of CofG and less trail and rake.  Once it's mocked up it will be possible to measure CofG position and compare that to stock.

Should be a nice bike, but I would be wary of simply trying to paste modern geometry onto an old bike without making the frame a lot stiffer than stock in th vertical and horizontal planes.  I'l leave some lateral flex in there.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Dec 24, 2010, 18:39:47
Johnu, you're on the right road in my opinion.  I like the looks thus far, the Swingarm is indeed along way from the countershaft.
 I was thinking simply remove the rear most engine mount, machine the mount off and re-weld another rear mount
That way I could move the S/A pivot forward by 30mm?   That  would be major but doable.  On a more realistic level I would mount the S/A right about where you have the mock up.  I have a plan for our T500 that is to remove the pivot plate as you have done and use four new plates, two per side with a welded in steel boss between each pair of plates.   I would run the plates up to the new angled tube you have already put in place and down to the original tube of course, fairly thin as then each side of the frame tube would be stressed  using chromoly sheet,  Also a cross tube  between the new angled tubes just above the chain.   The other advantage to cutting off the head tube is you can shorten the top tube a bit if need be.   I wouldn't think tire clearence  wil be a problem, with a smaller diameter tire and a more vertical compression path at 24 degrees.  I 'm guess-timating  using a 30" fork length as an average you'll save about 2.635" on de-raking alone and another .5" on the triple clamp offset.  That will be a huge difference.  Did you measure the layout before you took the bike apart?  I would measure the overall Wheelbase and the front wheelbase from the axle to the crankshaft and then crankshaft to the rear axle.  Just tossing out some ideas, this is very interesting to say the least.
  Cheers, 50gary

Removing the rear engine mount is pretty ambitious!  I too would have liked to create the double sheet metal mounting plate you describe, however my swing arm is wider than the inside of the frame tubes.  I do plant to go  up and attach to the new bracing though.  My original wheelbase was 58.75" on my cad drawing the new wheelbase should be 56.25".
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Dec 24, 2010, 18:44:20
Teaser, what suggestions do you have for stiffening the frame?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Jan 25, 2011, 00:02:18
Ok guys, not much to report as I've been busy on other things like work and such!  I made a cardboard temp for the swingarm mounting point but that's about it.  Nothing scientific about the design but I think it looks right.  I think I am going to try and mock up the forks in the stock head tube as on my cad drawing it looks like with how I have canted the frame it will work out to about 24* of rake.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Jan 26, 2011, 23:40:51
Ok I changed my mind!  I am now going to go with 16gauge formed sheet for the swingarm mounts with bosses weld through the sheet.  I was going to use 5mm plate as the mounts.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Jan 27, 2011, 00:56:20
Good, more like a race bike.  Remember, overkill is good.  With the plate mounted S/A the rigidity is limited to the strength of the steel plate not supporting geometry.
  I would weld the formed sheet only on the sides of the frame tubes, not on the curved surface of the tubes.  I think that creates a stress riser?   Any engineers out there?
    Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Jan 27, 2011, 11:33:18
You are correct about not welding the parts that contact the round part of the tube.  In all the books I have on frame building they suggest this.  I've seen examples of how the frame cracks if you weld this area.  Funnily enough though I think if you bronze weld the parts it's not an issue.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Erskine on Jan 27, 2011, 19:12:21
Remember, overkill is good.

I like the cut of your jib!:)
The GT500 I had back in the day was made out of rubber.
In fact the steering damper I put on it acted as a stressed member.;)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: zooke581 on Jan 27, 2011, 22:24:01
Ok I changed my mind!  I am now going to go with 16gauge formed sheet for the swingarm mounts with bosses weld through the sheet.  I was going to use 5mm plate as the mounts.

I was going this route but the pieces I cut off the GS500E frame to use would have put it outside my frame rails and I didn't want to modify those.  So I will use the plate with a pivot and use the motor to stiffen it as the factory did.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Jan 31, 2011, 21:14:53
Ok guys a little more progress!  I got the swingarm pivot mounting brackets made out of 16 gauge.  Had to hand form everything and it seems to have come out pretty well so far.  Hope to get them welded in this week some time.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: zooke581 on Jan 31, 2011, 22:23:47
Those are nice and actually look like they would work on my setup.  Especially as they fit towards the outside as mine have to.   Will they incorportate the rear engine mounts as well?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Jan 31, 2011, 23:53:25
Good job, that's just about what I thought. I might have gone one gauge thicker on the material 14?  I'm watching to see how you are going to make this S/A pivot square with the world?  I consider the Swingarm pivot the most important piece, being  the center of any bike. This is fun stuff.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Feb 01, 2011, 10:50:12
Those are nice and actually look like they would work on my setup.  Especially as they fit towards the outside as mine have to.   Will they incorportate the rear engine mounts as well?
Indeed they will incorporate the engine mount, that will be added one the parts are welded in place.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Feb 02, 2011, 13:54:29
Ok guys ,originally I was going to use my spoked Supermoto wheels but I am leaning more towards the wheels in the attached pics which are from a Kawi 650 ninja.  The Kawi rear rim is narrower at 4.5" than my spoked wheel which will help with the chain alignment (hopefully). 
 
I wish I had photoshop to do a mock-up.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: squirley on Feb 02, 2011, 17:15:12
Those are the same wheels that I used on my h1 build...
I have pics and measurements if you need them.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: LOCKARD666 on Feb 02, 2011, 18:52:39
not to get off subject, but what is the bike with blue forks in the background of your frame gusset pics?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: zooke581 on Feb 02, 2011, 19:40:56
Those wheels look nice.  Until something different comes along I like I will be using 3 spoke GS500 wheels at 3.00 front and 3.50 rear.  Don't really want to over tire it.  On my GT750 I am using 3.50 front and 4.50 rear.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Feb 02, 2011, 20:11:42
not to get off subject, but what is the bike with blue forks in the background of your frame gusset pics?
That bike is a 1960 Greeves Scottish (250cc) trials bike.  I restored it many years ago with my dad back in England.  He had it it shipped over here to California for me.  It has leading link forks and a cast "aluminium" frame section.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Feb 02, 2011, 20:14:16

Those are the same wheels that I used on my h1 build...
I have pics and measurements if you need them.
That would be great and would help me a ton.  Incidentally I have looked at your h1 build and that is a sweet bike.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Feb 02, 2011, 20:22:52
Those wheels look nice.  Until something different comes along I like I will be using 3 spoke GS500 wheels at 3.00 front and 3.50 rear.  Don't really want to over tire it.  On my GT750 I am using 3.50 front and 4.50 rear.
I agree that it will be far more tire than is optimal but it will not be to much of a hinderance.  I think it'll look good with the wider rim and tire considering the swingarm I am using. 
I have a question for you; the rear motor mount in my crankcase is wallowed out and the bush that goes in there just falls out, have you heard of a way to repair it?  I assume the case would have to be machined out and a special bushing made to suit.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Feb 02, 2011, 20:46:51
Here are the sa pivot brackets welded in.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Feb 02, 2011, 21:29:56
I agree that it will be far more tire than is optimal but it will not be to much of a hinderance.  I think it'll look good with the wider rim and tire considering the swingarm I am using. 
I have a question for you; the rear motor mount in my crankcase is wallowed out and the bush that goes in there just falls out, have you heard of a way to repair it?  I assume the case would have to be machined out and a special bushing made to suit.

I would fill weld it (T.I.G.) then re-bore it to original size with new bushing.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: zooke581 on Feb 02, 2011, 23:17:36
I agree that it will be far more tire than is optimal but it will not be to much of a hinderance.  I think it'll look good with the wider rim and tire considering the swingarm I am using. 
I have a question for you; the rear motor mount in my crankcase is wallowed out and the bush that goes in there just falls out, have you heard of a way to repair it?  I assume the case would have to be machined out and a special bushing made to suit.

I will be using GT750 bushes in my T500.  It will drastically cut down on fibration.  You will need to push out the old bushes and drill the holes larger.  The spacing will also be somewhat wider but easy to overcome.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Feb 03, 2011, 10:46:26
Gary, your idea sounds like the way to go but if, as Zooke says the gt750 bushings are bigger I would just use them and bore the hole out to suit.
 
Zooke do you have any size info on the 750 bushings? Are the motor mount bolts a bigger diameter as well as the bushing body?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: LOCKARD666 on Feb 03, 2011, 14:11:59
That bike is a 1960 Greeves Scottish (250cc) trials bike.  I restored it many years ago with my dad back in England.  He had it it shipped over here to California for me.  It has leading link forks and a cast "aluminium" frame section.

that's what caught my eye was the cast downtube... cool.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: zooke581 on Feb 03, 2011, 15:05:43
Gary, your idea sounds like the way to go but if, as Zooke says the gt750 bushings are bigger I would just use them and bore the hole out to suit.
 
Zooke do you have any size info on the 750 bushings? Are the motor mount bolts a bigger diameter as well as the bushing body?

Bolts are the same size but I will get a measurement on the bushings for you.  Might take some pics and post them up on here for you.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Feb 03, 2011, 18:30:47

Ok perfect, thankyou.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Feb 04, 2011, 11:51:45
It is now decided that I will be using the stock steering headstock. With the rear end mods and the shorter fork and smaller diameter front wheel it brings the rake angle to a desirable 24*.  However this does mean I will have to make a new steering stem as the headstock bearing dia. is 48mm and the Kawi steering stem on the 636 fork is 35mm and no bearing of that size exists.  I have a couple of questions about the stem before I get one made though.
 
1. I know that the bearing that goes on the bottom of the stem has both the inner and outer race as a light press fit to both the stem and the headstock.  What about the top bearing?  I realize that the outer race is pressed into the headstock but I assume the inner is a slip fit, what kind of clearance is typical here?
 
 
2.  My bearing seats in the headstock are just about 12.2mm deep as far as I can tell, if I use a 12mm wide tapered roller bearing will this work?
 
3.  What type of material is typically used for the stem?  The Kawi stem is some type of tubular Aluminum but with the 5mm reduction in diameter that I am going with maybe this isn't the best choice.
 
I would appreciate any help you guys can offer.
john.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Feb 04, 2011, 14:07:32
John, I would use aluminum it's lighter and most sport bike stems I've seen are aluminum.  However a 5 mm reduction in diameter is a huge amount therefore I would also reduce the lightening hole in the center of the stem to 10 mm diameter rather than the 16 mm in the OEM stem.  That would replace the lost material and strength of the stem.  7000 series is a bit stronger than the more common 6061 T6.  As for the height of the bearing I would make a spacer, it could act as a dust seal anyway.   Rule of thumb for press fit is .001" per inch of diameter should be pretty good for pressing your new stem into the lower triple clamp.  Oh yeah the upper bearing would be a close clearance fit.  I would be interested to hear what others have to say, my two cents.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Feb 06, 2011, 18:59:28
Thanks Gary.  I was thinking maybe it would be better (cheaper) to find a stem from another bike with a 30mm diameter that I could use by pressing a a bushing over the stem which would then press into the bottom triple clamp. Tough part is finding the correct stem with both the right diameter and the right length.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Feb 08, 2011, 16:34:15
No real progress to report, just that I ordered by 48x30x12 steering bearings from All Balls.  Now to find someone to machine up my steering stem for a reasonable price.  I hate paying for stuff that I can do my self... but I don't have the machinery available to me at this point in time so I have to pay!
 
My mind has been wandering to the color scheme I'm going to use, I know I need to worry about finishing the build first but hey color is fun.  At the moment (and this will likely change) I plan to do the crankcases, cylinders and heads satin black with possibly polished clutch and ignition covers.  Expansions I intend to leave unpainted with just a clearcoat.  The 636 forks are silver so I will probably go with silver swingarm then the frame in candy orange powder. Wheels will be gloss black.  Tank and tail unit to be off white (creme) pearl with candy orange stripes down the center.  I would like to get the original Suzuki "S" in there somewhere also.... I need to stop dreaming and get on and do some work!!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Feb 11, 2011, 12:31:34
Seems to be a bit quiet on here regarding the T500 projects, I guess not much progress is being made then.
 
i don't have much to report, I did get the drawing done for my steering stem which I have included in this post.  If anyone can see anything wrong on the drawing please let me know.  Also posted pics of the original stem and triple.
 
I assume that the old stem can just be pressed out of the bottom triple clamp?
 
Any guesses as to how much one would have to pay to have this stem made?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Tim on Feb 11, 2011, 13:26:30
I know a guy in Toronto who might be able to lathe one up.  He's been doing some work for me on my hubs.  He can make axles etc. too.  I'll point him to this and let him get in touch.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Feb 14, 2011, 19:47:43
Finally had some good luck with my project!  My EX650 rear wheel arrived from ebay and the axle size is 20mm which is the same as my YZF swingarm axle.  I can see I will have to machine the sprocket carrier down but at a quick glance that looks to be a cinch also.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Feb 24, 2011, 21:12:13
Not much progress at the moment but I have just started to pull the engine apart.  I assume that one uses a 3 legged puller to remove electronic ignition rotor from the end of the crank (see pic)?  Most that I've dealt with have a thread inside for extraction.  My shop manual only shows the points ignition setup.
 
Decided instead of paying someone to do my machining I am going use the money to buy a used lathe so that I can do stuff as and when I need it.  Hate paying someone else to do maching.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Feb 26, 2011, 12:26:50
Did a little bit of work on my final drive cover yesterday.  All engine cases will be powder coated eventually, I'm not into the polished cases look personally.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Mar 07, 2011, 18:43:33
Some moderate progress.  Got the engine stripped and the cases painted (looks better in person).  Need to re-plate the crankcase bolts before re-assembling the bottom end.  Also have to get the cylinders ported before painting them (cylinders will be black and heads silver).  Still looking for a used lathe so that I can move forward with the chassis and suspension.
Title: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Wingspan on Mar 07, 2011, 19:06:37
Looks good. :)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Mar 08, 2011, 16:23:14
Thanks.  I used the same paint as you, the Duplicolor engine paint.  It really goes on nicely and looks good, I just hope it's durable.  Darn sight cheaper than powder coating which I was going to do originally.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Wingspan on Mar 08, 2011, 17:01:50
Thanks.  I used the same paint as you, the Duplicolor engine paint.  It really goes on nicely and looks good, I just hope it's durable.

You and me both! I've already managed to put a small chip in one of my heads when I pulled it from the oven.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: JoeTee on Mar 08, 2011, 17:27:47
Side cases look killer in all black, easier than polishing too. 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Mar 08, 2011, 19:54:59
You and me both! I've already managed to put a small chip in one of my heads when I pulled it from the oven.

Well thats a bit of a bummer then!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Mar 09, 2011, 16:34:43
Side cases look killer in all black, easier than polishing too. 

Thanks, my intention is to not have any polished parts on the bike.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Mar 10, 2011, 20:48:18
Bottom end ready for re-assembly.  I am going to be doing it with my 16yr old so I have to wait on "his schedule"!  Got to teach the lad these things so it's worth the wait.
Title: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Wingspan on Mar 10, 2011, 21:11:35
Keep notes of any weirdness on reassembly, I'll be stuffing the guts back in mine soon. :)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Mar 17, 2011, 00:07:13
Started on the assembly today.  Realised I have a seal missing for the clutch pushrod so I need to get one of those along with a couple of other items.  Tried several Suzuki places online but I can't justify paying almost $20 shipping for three seals and a washer.  Anyone now a good online source for T500 parts with reasonable shipping costs?  I got all my other parts on ebay but I can't find these items on there.
 
If you have a keen eye you can probably see where I shortened the back of the final drive cover and crankcase to make it easier to install the engine.  When I modified my frame for the new swingarm it made getting the engine in and out difficult, hence the mod.
 
Wingspan, kickstart shaft was the only tricky part of the rebuild.  I couldn't get it tensioned correctly by following the shop manual info.  Not really sure how I got it to work out but it is right now.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Titan performance on Mar 17, 2011, 15:32:07
Those shiney black cases look cool Johnu.............
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Mar 17, 2011, 16:58:52
Thankyou.  Maybe you guys can help me, as soon as I put the igniton rotor back on the crankshaft the crank does not rotate smoothly.  I assume it is something to do with the magnets?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: saywhat on Mar 17, 2011, 17:37:14
I wish I could get parts that cheap, all of my stuff is discontinued and expensive.

Edit: Saw that is was just shipping cost... that does seem high.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: CobraRad on Mar 17, 2011, 23:13:05
I'm watching this one go together myself... I'm right behind ya, waiting for my crankshaft to come back from rebuild.
 
I wasn't sure I'd like the black side covers... but they look really cool!  I think it's going to look fantastic on the bike... have you come up with a paint scheme? 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Mar 18, 2011, 11:14:12
I'm watching this one go together myself... I'm right behind ya, waiting for my crankshaft to come back from rebuild.
 
I wasn't sure I'd like the black side covers... but they look really cool!  I think it's going to look fantastic on the bike... have you come up with a paint scheme? 

Where are you buying engine parts for your rebuild?
Here is my original color scheme but it's likely to change as I go (the frame color is most likely to change to gloss black):
The 636 forks I'm using are silver so I will probably go with silver swingarm then the frame in candy orange powder. Wheels will be gloss black.  Tank and tail unit to be off white (creme) pearl with candy orange stripes down the center.  I would like to get the original Suzuki "S" in there somewhere also, most likely on either side of the gas tank in black.  Expansions I intend to leave unpainted with just a clearcoat.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Mar 19, 2011, 21:02:20
I wish I could get parts that cheap, all of my stuff is discontinued and expensive.

Edit: Saw that is was just shipping cost... that does seem high.

I've done my time walking around autojumbles looking for rare parts for old Brit bikes with my dad who restores old bikes in the UK.  Part of the attraction of the Suzuki was the availability of spares.  I didn't figure on the extortionate shipping costs however!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Wingspan on Mar 19, 2011, 21:26:44
Where are you buying engine parts for your rebuild?


What sort of things are you looking for?  I buy most of my OEM Suzuki parts from http://www.servicehonda.com (http://www.servicehonda.com).  Don't let the name fool you, they carry parts for just about everything.  They've also got the parts fiche online, even for bikes as old as ours.  When I've needed items that were no longer available from Suzuki, I usually call Paul Miller Motorcycle at (860)-828-1771.  There are some mixed stories out there about Paul Miller, but I've purchased from him many times both directly and through his ebay auctions and have had no issues.

Those two sources and ebay have provided the bulk of my OEM parts.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Mar 19, 2011, 21:52:47
What sort of things are you looking for?  I buy most of my OEM Suzuki parts from http://www.servicehonda.com (http://www.servicehonda.com).  Don't let the name fool you, they carry parts for just about everything.  They've also got the parts fiche online, even for bikes as old as ours.  When I've needed items that were no longer available from Suzuki, I usually call Paul Miller Motorcycle at (860)-828-1771.  There are some mixed stories out there about Paul Miller, but I've purchased from him many times both directly and through his ebay auctions and have had no issues.

Those two sources and ebay have provided the bulk of my OEM parts.

Well I am looking for the seal that goes in the end of the clutch retaining plate (the one the the six springs locate in).  Plus a washer for the clutch nut and the oil fill cap.  I can find them online but the shipping was over $20 for $12 worth of parts!  Ebay has been great for all of my other parts but I can't find these items on there.  I will try the options you suggest, thanks.  I also need to get a couple of pistons (+0.5mm) and rings which hopefully I can find on ebay.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Wingspan on Mar 19, 2011, 22:01:49
Well I am looking for the seal that goes in the end of the clutch retaining plate (the one the the six springs locate in).  Plus a washer for the clutch nut and the oil fill cap.  I can find them online but the shipping was over $20 for $12 worth of parts!  Ebay has been great for all of my other parts but I can't find these items on there.  I will try the options you suggest, thanks.  I also need to get a couple of pistons (+0.5mm) and rings which hopefully I can find on ebay.

I just ordered a bunch of hardware for both my T500 and DL1000 from Service Honda and the shipping was ~$9. Don't bother with ebay for pistons.  I spent an age trying to find a set.  I don't think a lot of those sellers actually realize that the left and right pistons are different.  Just call Paul Miller for that stuff, he had a NOS set of +0.5mm pistons and rings on my doorstep in 3 days.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Mar 20, 2011, 16:05:29
Ok perfect thanks, I'll order from service Honda this afternoon and call about the pistons tomorrow.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Wingspan on Mar 20, 2011, 16:10:42
One more thing, you might want to look at the oil filler cap that Titan Performance makes.  It's much better than the stock rubber cork!

(http://wingspan.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/1975-Suzuki-T500-Cafe-Project/T500-253/1066037796_VeJq3-M.jpg)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Mar 22, 2011, 13:12:03
Darn it!  I have just broken the left side oil line to the crankcase.  I was just cleaning it and snap now it's in two pieces.  I think these are difficult to obtain new, might have to get a used one.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Wingspan on Mar 22, 2011, 13:16:29
Darn it!  I have just broken the left side oil line to the crankcase.  I was just cleaning it and snap now it's in two pieces.  I think these are difficult to obtain new, might have to get a used one.

EEK!  :o

I don't think I've seen any new ones come up for sale in the year that I've been looking at T500 parts.  It's something I've worried about as well. 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Mar 22, 2011, 19:38:06
I think the line was already cracked to be honest as I barely touch the thing.  Here's a pic.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Tim on Mar 22, 2011, 21:37:24
Get new braided lines made for it.  Will look way better and will last forever.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Mar 23, 2011, 11:38:26
Thanks that's a good idea with the braided lines and it would look good for sure, but I want to be able to see the oil flowing through the lines on initial start up after the rebuild.  I know it sounds lame but I don't want any oil starvation issues after laying out a ton of dough on the rebuild.
 
Wingspan, there was a new set on ebay that I bid on but they went for $71, more than I was willing to pay.  I really only like the buy it now deal on ebay.  Hopefully a used set will come up.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Mar 23, 2011, 23:27:20
Has anyone used 2 Stroke Wizard Tuned Pipe software from www.buildandclick.com (http://www.buildandclick.com)  If so is it easy to use, is it any good? 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Mar 26, 2011, 20:49:20
If anyone knows where there are a set of new or used RIGHT side oil lines for sale I'd appreciate a heads up.  I'm having no luck locating said oil lines.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: CobraRad on Mar 28, 2011, 13:06:16
I'll keep my eyes/ears open for ya!!  At the end of this week, I will be checking with a local guy who has a cycle "boneyard".  This older gentleman is in poor health, so I have to wait for his OK to go see what he's got.  He told me he has over 550 old bikes in various stages of disrepair.  I will find out if he has any old t500s and check on the oil lines for ya.  Please remind me if you don't hear from me by the beginning of next week.  Tim
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: sunnamp33 on Mar 28, 2011, 13:26:27
Thats funny. I need the exact part and am having the same problems with ebay. Let me know if you find a solution and  will do the same for you. Good looking bike by the way. Keep it up.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: sparkymoto on Mar 28, 2011, 13:47:12
I've seen on another forum where the following site is a good source. But when searching the fiche, I'm not sure the parts are listed that you need. See what you think: shspowersports (http://www.shspowersports.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=85377&category=Motorcycles&make=SUZUKI&year=1971&fveh=1937)


(select oil pump from the toggle)


Wondering if part 15 is what you need. However, this very part is listed as "DISCONTINUED" on BikeBandit. Soooo... itsa shot in the dark. Maybe it will pan out but would hate to send you on a wild goose chase.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Mar 28, 2011, 18:49:27
Ok guys appreciate you keeping a look out for me. 
 
Sparky, I am going to check shspowersports with a phone call as they are listing the part I need (#15).  All other suzuki dealers say it's a discontinued part.  Thanks.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Apr 13, 2011, 20:36:18
Sorry guys no progress to report.  Still haven't located my oil lines yet, saw a used one on ebay for $50 plus shipping but couldn't bring myself to spend that much on a used plastic pipe!  I may have to go down the custom braided hose route as suggested earlier.  Also still haven't been able to find a used lathe yet so I can machine up my steering stem and swingarm parts.  I may end up buying a new lathe!!  I am also looking for a couple of 30mm lock rings/nuts for my steering stem.  I have heard that some of the suzuki gsxr's use 30mm lock rings, can anyone confirm this or know of any other bike that uses 30mm on the stem?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: sparkymoto on Apr 13, 2011, 21:50:47
Hey, Johnu.


you should be good on the gsxr lock rings:
http://www.oneidasuzuki.com/store/parts-accessories/steering-stem-gsxr1000-2005-06.html (http://www.oneidasuzuki.com/store/parts-accessories/steering-stem-gsxr1000-2005-06.html)


not sure about others.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Apr 13, 2011, 23:41:29
Thanks sparky, are you saying that you think item #13 is the 30mm nut or item #8?  I appreciate the help.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: sparkymoto on Apr 14, 2011, 00:04:54
Thanks sparky, are you saying that you think item #13 is the 30mm nut or item #8?  I appreciate the help.
Right...#13. The other item looks to be just the standard top nut.

Good luck with the momentum on this. My Titan project is slowly picking up the progress. I have an 06 GSXR 600 front end awaiting installation. I'm going the Harley twin disc 1" hub route (a la Squirley build) and lacing to a 19" high shouldered alloy Morad. Hayabusa rotors will finish it out. Looking forward to seeing your bike develop.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Apr 14, 2011, 00:13:32
Right...#13. The other item looks to be just the standard top nut.

Good luck with the momentum on this. My Titan project is slowly picking up the progress. I have an 06 GSXR 600 front end awaiting installation. I'm going the Harley twin disc 1" hub route (a la Squirley build) and lacing to a 19" high shouldered alloy Morad. Hayabusa rotors will finish it out. Looking forward to seeing your bike develop.
Ok perfect.  If I was doing the project over I would have used a GSXR front end, the Kawi 636 is a bit of pain due to the 35mm stem diameter.  Good luck with your project, post up some pics for us!  Those shouldered rims look sweet - good choice.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: zooke581 on Apr 14, 2011, 16:36:58
Should have set of right oil lines in stock.  Good used and I just got things sorted from my trip to see Dad in Wyoming.  Still interested in the top end estimate?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Apr 14, 2011, 20:46:40
Should have set of right oil lines in stock.  Good used and I just got things sorted from my trip to see Dad in Wyoming.  Still interested in the top end estimate?

Ok excellent.  That's great you got to go and spend some time with your dad.  I am still very interested in the estimate .  Not sure if you still have my email with a ton of questions in it, if you don't I can re-send it.  I think in the email I mentioned I wanted to get between 50-55hp, well I'm thinking now that 55 would be minimum.
Also still would like info on that Gt750 rear engine mount bushing when you get a chance.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: zooke581 on Apr 14, 2011, 22:17:45
Ok excellent.  That's great you got to go and spend some time with your dad.  I am still very interested in the estimate .  Not sure if you still have my email with a ton of questions in it, if you don't I can re-send it.  I think in the email I mentioned I wanted to get between 50-55hp, well I'm thinking now that 55 would be minimum.

I'll work it up this weekend and take some pics and post.
Also still would like info on that Gt750 rear engine mount bushing when you get a chance.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Apr 15, 2011, 11:18:09
Ok great thanks.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on May 13, 2011, 14:01:41
Not much progress at the moment, still trying to decide on buying a lathe.  A likely choice is a new Chinese lathe - Grizzly 12"x36" ($2600) which has good reviews.
 
I did manange to buy some front brake calipers from a member (50Gary) on here for a bargain price.  Still looking for a front wheel from a ninja ex650 or zx636 (2005 or newer).
 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on May 26, 2011, 20:32:03
Got my new pistons today so cylinders can go out for boring now.  Then I'm sending them to Zooke for porting.  Also scored a 2009 Ninja 650 front wheel for $44 on ebay!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: zooke581 on May 26, 2011, 23:15:36
I would rather port them first before boring.  PM me your address so I can get the oil lines to you.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on May 27, 2011, 00:40:17
I would rather port them first before boring.  PM me your address so I can get the oil lines to you.

Ok thanks.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Jun 03, 2011, 21:12:18
No progress to report yet but I did finally get hold of a lathe so that I can start making parts.  Should see some progress in the next couple of weeks.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: sparkymoto on Jun 03, 2011, 22:54:32
Very nice. It looks very capable. Congrats!  :)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Jun 04, 2011, 19:46:58
Thanks.  First project will be to machine up a new steering stem!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Redrum Racer on Jun 04, 2011, 19:50:14
Good luck.on your project! Once its done you'll love it.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Jul 28, 2011, 19:38:58
Well finally a little progress.  Started modifying the Kawi steering stem to accept 30mm bearings.  I realise it is not much but I am getting something done at least!  My cylinders are out for porting also (Zooke is doing the work).
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Reddy on Aug 08, 2011, 21:19:32
What a project.  I wish I had some machinist ability but have never done that sort of thing.  I envy you.  That lathe looks sweet.
 
What is Zooke proposing for your porting?  I have been thinking I would leave my engine internals stock but my other bikes have two or three times the HP of the Suzuki and I am wondering if I should not get some work done while the bikes apart.  Any thoughts.  I see you are basically building a streetable track bike and that may be a more tempermental engine than I am willing to live with.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: zooke581 on Aug 08, 2011, 22:42:12
Surprisingly the porting I am doing gives the bike more torque and more HP and is very streetable.  Good for both street and track.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Aug 09, 2011, 13:44:27
Reddy, I have had high hp bikes which are exhilarating to ride but I actually get more enjoyment from my 50hp supermoto KTM.  I am hoping to get 55hp out of the Suzuki for a fun track day bike!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Aug 09, 2011, 13:48:54
Top clamp gets the chop!  Redundant ignition switch mounting removed.  Now I am going to make an adapter to mount Renthal taper bars.  I won't be using clip-ons due to shoulder injuries not allowing me to lean over for long periods.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Reddy on Aug 09, 2011, 16:52:40
Reddy, I have had high hp bikes which are exhilarating to ride but I actually get more enjoyment from my 50hp supermoto KTM.  I am hoping to get 55hp out of the Suzuki for a fun track day bike!
We both live in California, are rebuilding a T500, enjoy KTMs and are named John.  Are you my long lost Twin?
 
I hear you about the enjoyment I bike gives you is not just from mega HP.  I do not feel my  Suzuki will boring but I have heard that it is so mildly tuned in its stock condition that some accelleration can be gained while still having good street manners.  I thing I would like that.
 
That top triple is NICE!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: peteGS on Aug 09, 2011, 16:59:09
Subscribed, looking very interesting indeed! Would love to get my hands on a T500 one day... not sure if that's ahead of or behind the 750 Katana popup though...  ::)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Aug 09, 2011, 23:35:37
We both live in California, are rebuilding a T500, enjoy KTMs and are named John.  Are you my long lost Twin?
 
I hear you about the enjoyment I bike gives you is not just from mega HP.  I do not feel my  Suzuki will boring but I have heard that it is so mildly tuned in its stock condition that some accelleration can be gained while still having good street manners.  I thing I would like that.
 
That top triple is NICE!

Coincidence indeed!  Are you in SoCal?

I have heard that stock, the T500 is a very mellow bike, hence my desire to port the cylinders.  It sounds like Suzuki were very restrained as far as engine performance goes when they manufactured this bike when compared to say the RD350 Yamahas.  As far as tuning is concerned and from my research Zooke is the guy to go to.  Unfortunately it will be a while before I get to the point of being able to ride the bike with my newly ported motor.  For now I will just have to admire it sitting on the bench!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Reddy on Aug 10, 2011, 05:52:54
Coincidence indeed!  Are you in SoCal?

I have heard that stock, the T500 is a very mellow bike, hence my desire to port the cylinders.  It sounds like Suzuki were very restrained as far as engine performance goes when they manufactured this bike when compared to say the RD350 Yamahas.  As far as tuning is concerned and from my research Zooke is the guy to go to.  Unfortunately it will be a while before I get to the point of being able to ride the bike with my newly ported motor.  For now I will just have to admire it sitting on the bench!

I grew up in the L.A. area but the family moved out of state when I was in high school.  I moved back to the state some years ago and settled in the Bay Area.  I live in the Santa Cruz Mountains with excellent riding starting as I exit my driveway.
 
Suzuki's own X6 Hustler was a rather highly tuned 250 in the same era as the Titan.  The Hustler when compared to the Titan was just a little slower despite being half the displacement.  I think there is easy HP available locked up in those huge cylinders.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Aug 10, 2011, 14:26:09

I grew up in the L.A. area but the family moved out of state when I was in high school.  I moved back to the state some years ago and settled in the Bay Area.  I live in the Santa Cruz Mountains with excellent riding starting as I exit my driveway.
 
Suzuki's own X6 Hustler was a rather highly tuned 250 in the same era as the Titan.  The Hustler when compared to the Titan was just a little slower despite being half the displacement.  I think there is easy HP available locked up in those huge cylinders.
Bay area sounds great!  I grew up in England and moved to Cali in 1991.  I live in the foothills of the San Bernardino mountains so great riding area here too.  I hope to move to the Central coast at some point.

A friend of mine had a 250 Hustler many years ago and I remember it as being a bit of a speed machine.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Aug 10, 2011, 22:52:07
More progress!  Got the steering stem finished and the Kawi 636 forks fitted.  Now I can work on getting the swingarm pivot bushes mounted.  Should move right along now that I have the trickiest job done.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: sparkymoto on Aug 10, 2011, 23:11:25
Nice! Did you remove the anodizing on the tubes? The GSXR front end for my T500 is the bronze/gold color so I'll be removing it...just wondered how or what process you used...if you did it :)


Great progress. Looks killer already.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Reddy on Aug 11, 2011, 05:33:01
Is that an old Greeves in the background?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: kilometric on Aug 11, 2011, 06:14:52
hey, not sure if i have missed over it, i know of someone that just bought a gs 450 and is searching for some spoked wheels, did you still have the wheels or want to part with them? im not sure if they would fit but i can get him to check em out.


your bike sounds like its going to be real neat!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Aug 11, 2011, 11:38:36
Nice! Did you remove the anodizing on the tubes? The GSXR front end for my T500 is the bronze/gold color so I'll be removing it...just wondered how or what process you used...if you did it :)


Great progress. Looks killer already.
Thanks.  2006 Kawi 636 forks are silver anodized which is why I chose to use them.  If I did it all over though I would have used GSXR 1000 forks as they have 30mm steering stem stock.  The kawi stem was 35mm.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Aug 11, 2011, 11:47:50
hey, not sure if i have missed over it, i know of someone that just bought a gs 450 and is searching for some spoked wheels, did you still have the wheels or want to part with them? im not sure if they would fit but i can get him to check em out.


your bike sounds like its going to be real neat!
I do still have the original wheels and I might want to sell them.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Aug 11, 2011, 11:56:23
Is that an old Greeves in the background?
It is a 1960 Greeves 250 Scottish, trials bike.  I restored it years ago when I was 16 with my dad back in England.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Reddy on Aug 11, 2011, 17:31:51
That's cool.  Sounds like you are continuing the tradition with your son. 
 
You have had that Greeves for a few years.  Looking back the only regrets I have about all the motorcycles I have owned is I sold them all and I would REALLY like to have about half a dozen of them back.

Like: Honda 250 Hawk, Suzuki X6 Hustler, Suzuki Water Buffalo, Suzuki GS1000, Suzuki GS550, Yamaha RD400, BMW K100, Suzuki RM370, KTM 250..........and the list goes on.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: kilometric on Aug 15, 2011, 02:36:28
I do still have the original wheels and I might want to sell them.


thought of a figure? i can let my mate know.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Aug 23, 2011, 20:00:21
Small update.  Got the swing arm pivot bosses made today.  Swing arm is ready to be mounted now into the brackets (pic3).
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Reddy on Aug 23, 2011, 21:33:54
I want to see this one as a roller.  Close.
 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Aug 23, 2011, 23:35:21
I want to see this one as a roller.  Close.
 

I look forward to that day I can tell you!  Once I get the swingarm in I will be putting the wheels in (have to teach my son how to install the tires first) so that I can check the geometry.  It all looks good on paper but I want to check reality!  I am going make an adjustable shock mount so that along with raising and lowering the forks in the triples I will still have a fair bit of adjustment.  This should allow me to fine tune once I actually get to ride it.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Aug 24, 2011, 21:15:56
Got the swingarm in place, hopefully tomorrow i'll get it tacked in.  Also my son and I got a tire mounted on the front wheel.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: teazer on Aug 25, 2011, 00:14:39
How did you get the holes in the side plates to be exactly perpendicular to the steering head? Do you have a mill or a decent frame jig to work with or are you just using levels and a laser?  That's neat work.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Aug 25, 2011, 15:18:16
How did you get the holes in the side plates to be exactly perpendicular to the steering head? Do you have a mill or a decent frame jig to work with or are you just using levels and a laser?  That's neat work.


I have a large piece of 1" thick 12" wide cold rolled flat bar that I use for the set up.  It was all done using levels, squares, plumb lines and a drill jig for the side plates.  I would love to have a mill in my garage but that's not in the budget at this time.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Aug 25, 2011, 16:14:18
Ok I got the swingarm pivot bosses tacked in and mocked up the rough position of the shock just to see how it will look.  Have to get my son to install the tire on the rear rim then hopefully I can get the wheels in and check the geometry.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Aug 26, 2011, 18:38:33
I asked the question below in the "Brakes" section on this site but so far there has been no response, wondering if I might have more luck here?                                                                                                                                                                                         I am using 2006 Kawi 636 forks and front brake calipers (Tokico 4 cylinder) for this project.  I now need to find a suitable master cylinder to use with my setup.  I would like to use something other than the stock Kawi master, maybe from another modern sportbike.  The issue is I am not sure what size the master cylinder needs to be, I think it is either a 19x18 or 19x20 does this sound right?  I would like to get something that is smallish and has the seperate reservoir for the fluid.  Any help or suggestions appreciated.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Aug 31, 2011, 20:20:36
I am in a parts gathering mode at the moment and was looking to get some of the electrical parts together (not that I am ready yet).  I was wondering if it is possible (I know nothing about m/c electrical systems) to use LED rear light and turn signals on the T500.  If so do I have to do anything special to use them.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Big Rich on Aug 31, 2011, 22:02:04
Ya, leds will work just fine. They draw a much lower amperage than the old lights, so you would need a flasher relay made for leds though.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: teazer on Aug 31, 2011, 23:35:55
GSXR similar year M/C will probably be fine.  What's wrong with the 636 - isn't it radial pump with remote reservoir too or was it damaged/missing?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Sep 01, 2011, 00:13:31
GSXR similar year M/C will probably be fine.  What's wrong with the 636 - isn't it radial pump with remote reservoir too or was it damaged/missing?

I just bought the forks without the controls so I've been looking for the Kawi master but haven't seen anything at a reasonable price.  I'll check ebay for GSXR prices - thanks.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Sep 01, 2011, 01:17:20
I would hold out for the Radial M/C I got a GSXR radial  (complete with lever) from Ebay cheap just keep looking.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Sep 10, 2011, 17:04:51
More progress.  Shock is mounted although the adjustable top bracket is just tacked at this point.  I also got my hybrid EX650/ZX636 front axle done so I now have both wheels in.  My next step is to modify the 636 top clamp to accept Renthal taper bars which will be a challenge.  Now the wheels are in I will be able to check the geometry to see if it works out to my calculations.[
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: zooke581 on Sep 10, 2011, 17:52:24
Cases will be out Monday as soon as you PM me your address again.  They were quite hidden in my stash at the back of the shop being they were pretty much trashed.  Still don't like throwing things out.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Sep 10, 2011, 19:07:13
John, this is outstanding, good things are happening, excellent work and design.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: teazer on Sep 10, 2011, 21:15:36
Looking good.  Of course the rear frame section with shock mounts is basically redundant now.  Depending on what type of seat and overall look you are going for, some big changes could be contemplated..
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Sep 12, 2011, 12:41:07
Teazer, Is the attached pic (my first time using paint) what you were talking about?  I plan to make my own tank and seat from aluminum but haven't decided exactly on the shape yet.  I have stuff in my head and will make a model from foam first.  Honestly though I won't be going with the classic cafe flat bottom seat and tank look.  In my mind I see something supermoto/flatrack/sportbike hybrid.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Sep 12, 2011, 14:24:47
John, again right on the money.  I would guess the two green circles are cross tubes?  I would use the point of the lower cross tube as the junction for what would be a 70' angle seat tube.  It might not look as racy as your narrow angle tube in your drawing but I feel it would be stronger and naturally tie into the overall frame plan.  You also mention your seat, that may be part of the reason for the shallow seat tube placement?  Your mass centralization and overall weight are going to be greatly improved to say the least with this new layout, excellent.
   When I get to this point in a build I think "why didn't I just build a new frame from scratch?"   
    Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: BicycleBobe on Sep 12, 2011, 23:46:58
This is one of my favorite builds right now not just because I have the same bike but because it's awesome. That was the easiest way to sum it up without listing... I'm excited to see more
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Sep 12, 2011, 23:56:23
This is one of my favorite builds right now not just because I have the same bike but because it's awesome. That was the easiest way to sum it up without listing... I'm excited to see more
Thanks.  Do you have a build thread for your t500?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Sep 13, 2011, 00:05:43
John, again right on the money.  I would guess the two green circles are cross tubes?  I would use the point of the lower cross tube as the junction for what would be a 70' angle seat tube.  It might not look as racy as your narrow angle tube in your drawing but I feel it would be stronger and naturally tie into the overall frame plan.  You also mention you seat, that may be part of the reason for the shallow seat tube placement?  Your mass centralization and overall weight are going to be greatly improved to say the least with this new layout, excellent.
   When I get to this point in a build I think "why didn't I just build a new frame from scratch?"   
    Cheers, 50gary

The green circles are cross tubes.  I know you're right about the seat tube angle, I may have a solution to combine both angles which I will work on.  I am glad see that there is interest in this project and welcome all ideas and suggestions.  I would love to build a frame from scratch and that was my original plan but I can't justify the cost of a good tube bender, TIG welder and milling machine!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: BicycleBobe on Sep 13, 2011, 13:14:12
Thanks.  Do you have a build thread for your t500?
I do not really doing a lot with it right now, getting the BMW back into commission first. My best friend ran it into the back of my neighbors car...
http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=28247.0 (http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=28247.0)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Sep 16, 2011, 16:04:21
Not much progress this week.  However I did get the bike down on level ground and check the geometry.  With the forks dropped 8mm in the triples and the swingarm angle at 10.5* I have got 23.5* of head angle which was what I had on my autocad drawing.  I am very happy with how it is working out, I still have plenty of adjustment with the forks and of course my adjustable rear shock mounting.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Sep 21, 2011, 20:31:48
Not much progress at the moment, I'm waiting for parts.  I did get a rear brake to use and i got my adjustable shock mount welded in.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: zooke581 on Sep 21, 2011, 20:47:46
Is there another brace towards the front of the adjustable mount to check accidental forward movement?  Nice work.  I hope to get started on one of my shelved projects soon.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Sep 22, 2011, 12:20:47
Is there another brace towards the front of the adjustable mount to check accidental forward movement?  Nice work.  I hope to get started on one of my shelved projects soon.

Eric, are you talking about the direction of the green arrow in the attached pic? 
Are you going to work on the 250 Suzuki?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: zooke581 on Sep 22, 2011, 13:04:30
Yup that direction.  It wouldn't be good for the mount to fold either way.  If it folded up,  the Missus might get a little upset. :o
 
Started on the T250 again last night. 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Sep 22, 2011, 14:24:24
Indeed she might!  I am going to brace to the top rails once I have finished the back end of the frame.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: zooke581 on Sep 22, 2011, 14:57:37
All is sorted on my end as I had informed you about earlier.  Things actually worked out better and looks like Vintage Racing is back in my future for next year as well.  So the Cafe T250 will have race time as well as street time.  I am working on a T350 topend for it as well.
 
Looking forward to your project as well and seeing it on the street/track.  Got a GoPro?  You are going to have some serious cornering contact patches with those tires.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Sep 22, 2011, 15:15:26
Nice, glad things are working out for you.  I'm not too familiar with the vintage racing scene, I have just seen the 1960's era BSA Goldstar/AJS7R/Manx norton type of racing back in the UK.  It's hard for me to think of mid/late seventies bikes being vintage!
My son keeps bugging me about one of those go pro cameras but I could buy a lot of parts for the cost of one of those!
 
The tyres are some of my michelin supermoto slicks, not sure how they are going to work out yet.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Sep 22, 2011, 18:39:02
Sorry, this is not a hijak.  Zooke I have a line on a T-250 for an asking price of $150.00 he says it recently ran but now he's sold the seat and tank?  Opinion please?
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: zooke581 on Sep 22, 2011, 18:44:02
Sorry, this is not a hijak.  Zooke I have a line on a T-250 for an asking price of $150.00 he says it recently ran but now he's sold the seat and tank?  Opinion please?
  Cheers, 50gary


If it is not locked up and that is all that is missing and doesn't look like he fished it out of the ocean, than I myself would get it at that price.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Sep 23, 2011, 00:19:43
Eric, I got the inlet manifolds today I'll send them to you tomorrow.
 
Gary, I have my t500 tank that I won't be using but I'm not sure if its the same as the 250.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Flying J on Sep 23, 2011, 00:26:11
Ill keep my eye on this one.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Sep 24, 2011, 18:36:23
Here's the rear Brembo mocked up.  Just need to make a couple of spacers and a locator on the swing arm and it'll be good to go.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Sep 26, 2011, 14:12:45
Eric, the inlets are in the mail.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: jay_kent on Sep 26, 2011, 16:29:57
cool build going on here, posting to keep tabs and learn a little more about suzuki's I've got hondas and yamahas in the garage.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Sep 26, 2011, 16:42:25
cool build going on here, posting to keep tabs and learn a little more about suzuki's I've got hondas and yamahas in the garage.

Thanks.  Trust me, I'm learning about Suzukis as well!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Sep 29, 2011, 18:16:55
Small progress, I got the front wheel spacers done.  Had to make some sleeves to fit inside the Kawi 636 spacers (25mm axle) to fit the Kawi 650 axle (20mm) then had to reduce the o.d to fit the 650 seals!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Sep 29, 2011, 19:08:53
John, sorry to be slow back on the tank offer, I've been tied up tight lately.  I'm okay on my tank issue.  Your T-500 is  going to be very good, impressive.  This is going to be a great riding bike IMO.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Sep 29, 2011, 23:25:23
Ok Gary, did you end up buying the bike?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Sep 29, 2011, 23:53:26
No,  I bought a Yamaha RT360 parts bike and a spare frame.   My idea is air cooled, two stroke, minimum weight, USD fork, mono shock with linkage, rear disc brake, funky old school tank ($5) from a YP3 1968 traditional cafe seat.  Pre mix and I may even try to leave it bump start?  I've had this bike in my head for some time and I got to do it. 
Arte Primitivo
like cave drawings in metal.  I will cut the neck and sub frame off tomorrow and dive in.  Years ago I was watching YouTube videos of Deal's Gap > Tail of the Dragon and started thinking what would be an ideal bike just for that road? 
   The GT250 Suzuki I especially like simply because it's not an RD and is so cool I almost bought it to stash in the garage until next build, but hey, I can't get too carried away. 
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Sep 30, 2011, 13:20:57
Sounds like a cool project (do you have it on here)!  I must confess I don't know what an RT360 is but I'm guessing it's single cylinder trail type machine.  If so it would most likely be fairly lightweight to start out.  My biggest weight saving is in the wheels (massive) and fork.  I was going to run my T500 premix but everyone advised against it because of issues with crank bearings.  Not sure if deals gap is your dream ride or maybe you've already ridden it but mine is Pikes Peak which I want to do on my supermoto KTM.  Anyway would like to see pics of your build as it progresses.
 
John.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Sep 30, 2011, 16:37:14
I've never been to Deal's Gap but it does look like fun, almost too popular though?  The RT1 is a Yamaha Enduro 360 single two stroke.  The 360 (actually 351cc) is a tractor, big torque.  I want to see how simple I can make it and still be a very effective road bike.  I just cut off the rear subframe and swingarm minutes ago. I'll trial fit the new swingarm then cut off the top tube and the down tubes.   No pictures yet I'm not so good at the documentation.
    My brother's T-500 is keeping the oiler because of the crank bearings, Zooke might have some insight on this issue.  Maybe he's mentioned it already and I missed it?  If I could only change one thing on a bike (pedal or motor) it would be the wheels and tires.  Pike's peak, that would be a ride and a half!  I've driven up there but never ridden it.  Keep up the great work on the Titan I really look forward to the progress.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 01, 2011, 21:31:31
Ok Gary have fun cutting and welding (the part I enjoy the most)!  I used to race a KTM 500 2stroke single - that was a brute.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 02, 2011, 23:42:53
More progress.  Installed the bottom end in the frame so that I can fab and install the rear engine mounts to the frame.  Swingarm postion relative to the motor came out perfectly.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 1976cb356 on Oct 03, 2011, 00:30:06
Wow that is looking sweet man, I use to not like the mono shocks but now I love them. Good inspriation for my next build. I will stay tuned
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Oct 03, 2011, 10:12:02
John, that's great work on the engine to swingarm clearance, perfect.  (Feels good doesn't it)  I know it's still a work in progress but I wonder if you're going to put a cross tube brace in the front down tubes just above the exhaust headers?  I always put that one in.  This chassis is setting the T-500 standard for me. 
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 03, 2011, 23:04:46
I hadn't really thought about bracing that area, but it would be easy enough to do.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 04, 2011, 22:10:48
More progress.  Rear motor mounts are done!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: jay_kent on Oct 04, 2011, 22:29:58
man, those are clean, nice welds
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: DreadRock on Oct 05, 2011, 11:34:55
Man very nice work ! looking very clean
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 05, 2011, 23:15:20
Ok guys now I have got the bottom end back in I am relieved to see that chain rub on the top of the swing arm is going to be a non issue which is a relief!  I will be making an offset counter sprocket using the old sprocket (15t -530) welded to a new (16t - 520) sprocket with a spacer welded between the two.  The big issue however is the rear sprocket position, I am going to have to do some major surgery to the cush drive to get the sprocket moved over sufficiently. 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Oct 05, 2011, 23:50:30
John, I expect you mean moving the rear sprocket to the right?  How wide is the rear wheel and the rear tire?  I ground the teeth off the old 530 sprocket then turned it round on the lathe.  Put it on the spline, then the new 520 counter sprocket, tack welded them to each other in place.  Then I knew they were concentric.  Then I removed them and finished welded them in the vice.  I had a "dish" cut into the new sprocket so the lock tab washer could fit along with the nut.   I had to narrow the sprocket carrier by .375" along with shortening the sprocket studs to clear the inside of the swingarm.  I took stock off the sprocket mating surface of the carrier and shortened the lug studs.  It worked out fine.  The wheel I used was a Suzuki SV 650 17" x 4.5" the original wheel was 3.00" With .375 offset counter sprocket and .375" narrower on the sprocket carrier it fit fine. This was for my XS650 Yamaha but the process is the same. The 520 chain gains another .0625" of chain to frame clearance and .0625" tire to chain clearance.  I'll be interested to see your method.
   Cheers,50gary
 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 06, 2011, 00:39:50
Gary, I think my method will be very similar to what you are describing although I may have to weld a small spacer between my two counter sprockets.  The rear wheel I am using is from a Kawi 650 which is 4.5" wide which i consider to be the ideal width.  Tire is a 165 michelin supermoto slick.  I have to move the sprocket to right yes, approximately 20mm which will take some tricky mods, including but not limited to removing material from the cush drive rubber inserts! 
 
How's the 360 coming along?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Oct 06, 2011, 09:29:36
John, that sound's nearly the same as my XS 650 set up.  I used a 4.5'' width wheel and a Metzeler Sportec 160
  The RT360 is creeping along waiting for some parts to come, yesterday I did get another gas tank, I don't know if anyone else will like it but I like it a lot. 1968/69 old school I may post a picture just of that?
 Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 06, 2011, 20:45:18
How did you machine the splines out of the new 520 sprocket once you had the old (530) sprocket tacked to it?  Those splines are hardened, I had a bit of trouble machining the old sprocket round on the outside after I had cut the teeth off with a grinder.  I used a T/C lathe tool but it still didn't like it!  I suspect that the whole sprocket is hardened not just the teeth and splines.
 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Jewbacca on Oct 06, 2011, 22:09:48
Slow your speed down to less than 100 rpms. Grind a small radius on your tool bit (I assume you are using ACT or similar carbide bits?) Cut away from the spindle instead of toward it with a large angle on your bit (basically "dragging the bit" across the metal. Use lots of coolant/oil and you'll need to resharpen the bit about a dozen times. I cut hardened pieces all the time (nitride, stellite, 4140, etc) that's about the best way I've found to do it. Just a machinist's $0.02. Hope that helps.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 06, 2011, 23:52:52
Slow your speed down to less than 100 rpms. Grind a small radius on your tool bit (I assume you are using ACT or similar carbide bits?) Cut away from the spindle instead of toward it with a large angle on your bit (basically "dragging the bit" across the metal. Use lots of coolant/oil and you'll need to resharpen the bit about a dozen times. I cut hardened pieces all the time (nitride, stellite, 4140, etc) that's about the best way I've found to do it. Just a machinist's $0.02. Hope that helps.
Thanks for the help, I'll try slowing down.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Oct 06, 2011, 23:55:24
Say, thanks for the machining tip, I'm going to write that one down.  We went through some bits to do the operation it is hard stuff. Most counter sprockets are chromoly to my knowledge.  To remove the old teeth grinding is the way.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 07, 2011, 00:22:35
I also got the redundant rear frame parts cut off today and made one of the rear wheel spacers.  It's nice to be moving forward!  Now I have to try and decide what direction to go with the tank and seat/tail unit.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Erskine on Oct 07, 2011, 18:18:40
looking seriously cool now :)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 07, 2011, 20:47:28
Got the sprocket machined down thanks to Jewbacca's tip, see the pic below.  Feed is going to the right away from the chuck.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 07, 2011, 20:48:11
looking seriously cool now :)
Thanks!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 07, 2011, 20:54:41
Next job is the rear sprocket carrier.  I have to remove just over 13mm from the sprocket seating surface but I've been unable to get the studs out.  I locked double nuts on there but couldn't move any of them.  I will try using some heat but I really didn't want to do that.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Oct 07, 2011, 22:39:49
Ouch, I don't mean to try to make you feel bad but my mod used a Suzuki Katana600/Bandit600/SV650 rear hub and the five not six "studs" are loose, held in place by the cush drive rubbers and stopped with a "flat" on the lug bolt heads.  Real easy.  Having said that, I really like the light weight look of your wheels.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: scm on Oct 08, 2011, 03:09:24
  I will try using some heat but I really didn't want to do that.

Why not? Heat is exactly what you need in this case.
I use some propane/butane torch for removing studs like these.
Don't be afraid to spoil the paint, it can stand quite high temperatures!

Good luck!
Sven
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 08, 2011, 12:45:10
Yes, I will likely have to use heat I just didn't want to damage the seals and bearings as they only have about 800 miles on them.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Catbird on Oct 09, 2011, 02:45:53
Your swingarm... I want to take it somewhere quiet and private, light some candles, and put on the Barry White.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: killerx on Oct 09, 2011, 09:54:29
Are the studs threaded in to the hub? Maybe LH threads? Just guessing. If you submerge the hub in water so that only one or two studs are exposed you can apply heat to the stud and avoid damage to the seals and bearing. Most likely the studs have plenty of red thread locker on them.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 11, 2011, 00:12:24
Ok I got the oxy/acetylene out and that did the trick.  The studs have an interference fit on them plus there was some kind of threadlocker on them.  I also managed to save the seal and bearing!  Hopefully I'll get it machined down tomorrow.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 11, 2011, 00:47:39
I'm thinking of modeling my seat unit and gas tank on the ones in these pics.   This is the fun part!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: zooke581 on Oct 11, 2011, 07:24:01
Nice looking units.  I like those.  By the way...what is the wheel base on your bike now?  I'd like to compare that to the monoshock T500 I am doing.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 11, 2011, 23:09:08
Nice looking units.  I like those.  By the way...what is the wheel base on your bike now?  I'd like to compare that to the monoshock T500 I am doing.

Wheel base is a nominal 55" compared to stock which I think is around 57".
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: zooke581 on Oct 11, 2011, 23:28:33
I was hoping for that but mine will be the same a stock.  The rake and trail will be better though and that will help in handling. 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 13, 2011, 23:49:09
Here is where I'm at right now.  I have the tank base pattern sitting on the frame.  It'll probably be a while before I get much progress as it's going to take many hours to form the tank and tail.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: sxecafe on Oct 14, 2011, 02:57:24
You looking to glass that yourself?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 14, 2011, 12:20:24
You looking to glass that yourself?
I plan to make it from Aluminum.  The pic is just the inspiration so what I end up with is likely to be a bit different.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: sxecafe on Oct 14, 2011, 12:30:57
Nice! Should be fun to see.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 14, 2011, 21:32:25
Made a pattern tank today based on the Meadspeed T20 tank I posted earlier.  Really I don't like the look at this point.  For sure the tank is too tall and also it seems too wide at the front (next to the forks).  I think I'll remove the bottom layer and slim the front down a little and see how it looks but I am leaning toward figuring out a different design altogether.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Swagger on Oct 14, 2011, 21:54:11
Wow....dunno if I've seen this pone *post* before but I'll be going back to the beginning.
Very cool......

edit: FUCKING AUTOCORECT! Bane of my existence......WTF!!!? is 'pone'?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Tim on Oct 14, 2011, 22:02:38
Agreed on the tank.

Im going back to page 1 also and reading through.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: joeybaggadonuts on Oct 15, 2011, 00:09:34
definitely keeping an eye on this thread. sweet stuff
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: DreadRock on Oct 15, 2011, 10:25:32
I can see what you mean about the tank but still has a very nice look to it ! Very nice dude !
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Flying J on Oct 17, 2011, 01:39:59
I think it looks good as is. The only thing is it might look a little wide on the front portion, at the bottom but thats it. In the end you have to do what looks right to you. I cant imagine anything much worse then coming out to a finished bike and thinking every time "Why did i not fix (insert dissatisfaction here)"


none the less great build.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 17, 2011, 17:30:40
I think it looks good as is. The only thing is it might look a little wide on the front portion, at the bottom but thats it. In the end you have to do what looks right to you. I cant imagine anything much worse then coming out to a finished bike and thinking every time "Why did i not fix (insert dissatisfaction here)"


none the less great build.
Thanks.  I am working on a different version today.

What is that green bike in your avatar!  I'd like to see a big pic, the paint job looks wicked.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Flying J on Oct 17, 2011, 17:37:40
Its just a photoshopped paint job of my CB550. Not sure im going to paint the tank and seat but the frame will be green for sure and the seat is out at the upholstery guy now.
http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=10381.msg310428#msg310428 (http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=10381.msg310428#msg310428)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 17, 2011, 17:56:48
Its a great looking bike!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 19, 2011, 23:28:18
Well I made another mock tank which is basically a slimmer version of the first one but I like it much better.  I still may remove 1/2" or so from the overall height.  I would like to make it a bit longer but I will be running m-x bars so it would make the seating position uncomfortable.  I will now model  a seat/tail unit based on the KR250 unit that I posted previously.  I still like the idea of using the Honda RS125 tail unit so I may design a tank to suit that one as well.  What do you all think?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Oct 20, 2011, 00:53:37
The RS125 seat looks very modern I like it a bunch.  A complementary tank could be cool, it would modernize the whole platform.  I'd like to see a mock up?  That seat might go well with my old Yamaha tank?
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: smvirili on Oct 20, 2011, 05:28:29
sweeeeet. it's not at all that i am ungrateful but i wish my dad was more like you, mate.
how's your son enjoying the build?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Reddy on Oct 20, 2011, 05:47:19
I'm curious about what you have in mind for a tank to go with the RS125 tail.  I do like that tail.
Bike is startin' to look awesome.  Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: manolon6 on Oct 20, 2011, 08:03:26
Hi.
I think itīs a great project. Iīm loking foward to see this bike finished.
I think that second tank looks great, I want to see it mounted with that seat... It could be awesome...
In my opinion, There is something i would retouch: I would round the end of the swingarm, i think it looks better and I would try to fit classic rims and stainless spokes wheels... Itīs just an opinion...
Bye
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Oct 20, 2011, 10:14:43
manolon6,   The problem with the rounded treatment to the S/A is.. how would you adjust the chain tension?  Look's nice though.
   Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: DreadRock on Oct 20, 2011, 11:12:27
Johnu its looking killer man ! like the tail for the RS always wondered what a old style tank and a new style tail would look like . really like mixing things up and not cookie cutting ! i do agree that the swingarm looks nice rounded but not sure if you can with the adjuster there !
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Rattlecan on Oct 20, 2011, 11:15:23
Damn brother I dont know how I missed this build.  Its funny we have a very similar vision for our bikes I used a similar front end and wheels,  from an 09 ZX-10 but I fitted the ZX-10 swingarm and rear wheel to mine as well, and worked like hell to keep the rear 190 tire.
 
Did u get anywhere with your front sproket?  I'm just about at that point and was thinking of using the same meathod.  do you have any more pics of how you did it.  I'd be really interested in seeing them.
 
Love the build.
Cheers
D.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 20, 2011, 23:52:56
sweeeeet. it's not at all that i am ungrateful but i wish my dad was more like you, mate.
how's your son enjoying the build?

I was fortunate that I got to restore bikes with my dad when I was growing up.  It feels good to share the same experiences with my son.  He's doing ok with it but get's frustrated that we don't move forward fast enough (understandable).
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 20, 2011, 23:57:11
Going to attempt the the mock tank to suit the RS tail tomorrow.  Problem is, while it should be easy enough to make the mock up what I have in mind will be very difficult to fabricate in sheet ally.  A couple of deep double curvature areas to form.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 21, 2011, 00:15:41
Rattlecan,
Well I hadn't seen your build either, I took a glimpse earlier but will look through it all later.  Looks like you have mega fabbing talent!  I like how you widened the frame to accept the new swinger.  On my bike the chain is going to run within 3mm of the frame!
I haven't finished the front sprocket yet but I know how I'm going to do it.  All you do is get an old sprocket and grind the teeth off then turn the diameter so that it is smaller than the sprocket you are going to use.  Then put both sprockets on the output shaft and tighten nut.  Tack the two together then remove and weld all the way around.  Then you have to machine the center out of the new sprocket so that you can get the nut and washer in side then weld this side.  It"s easier than it sounds.  A couple of pics below of the parts just laying on top of each other.  You have the TIG welder so no problem there, I only have MIG and oxy-acetylene so I'll have to pay to get it welded.  There is a guy on customfighters.com name is cabbie that built a sweet 750 Kawi and he got hold of an offset counter sprocket already made.  Maybe search for the build on that site, it's a wicked bike.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: DreadRock on Oct 21, 2011, 00:32:24
Im wondering when you weld the spacer to the sproket to get your off set right how do you hold it on to the sproket shaft?  C clip or large nut? just wondering in case i ever need to do this on a build down the road . and have to ask what KTM is that in the back ground ?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 21, 2011, 01:18:14
you have to machine the center face out of the sprocket (like a counterbore) for the nut.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Oct 21, 2011, 09:36:05
DreadRock, on my offset sprockets I found there is maybe 3 threads exposed to get the nut on just enough to hold the sprocket and spacer in place for the tack welding.
Note; when you do the tack weld place the toothed sprocket on the shaft first then the toothless spacer so it's easy to weld with the backside out.  I tack 12/6 3/9 positions then place it in the bench vice for finish welding.  Final thought, make darn sure of your proper gear ratio, you don't want to do too this many times.  I hope that's was your question? 
  John, I have never hand formed (hammered, unless you have access to an English wheel?) an aluminum tank go for it! It will be great to watch.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: DreadRock on Oct 21, 2011, 10:49:35
Yep thanks for the info always good to learn something new !
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Rattlecan on Oct 21, 2011, 10:51:19
Thanks John,
I think I'm gonna attempt it this weekend. I've got a lathe and a mill as well so it should be no problem. 
Do you know if the center of the sproket was hardened as well or just the teeth?
 
As for your tank, I say try it, you've got nothing to loose, and a ton of knowledge to gain.  I just picked up an english wheel as well, but just havn't had a project to try and use it on yet.  But I'm pretty stoked about it.
 
Have you tryed torch welding the alu yet.  This is something I'd like to learn but have never known anyone local that can do it to show me.
Cheers.
D.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 21, 2011, 11:40:03
Dread, just as Gary said I have a couple of threads left exposed on the shaft so I am able to just thread the nut on slightly to hold the two in place.  If you don't have any theads exposed you could always counter bore the sprocket just deep enough that it would give you room to get the nut on but still leave some of the splined area intact to keep it aligned with the spacer.  The KTM in the background is the same bike I am riding in my avatar its a 525exc.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: DreadRock on Oct 21, 2011, 11:42:59
DUDE thats sweet love KTMs !
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 21, 2011, 11:52:31
Thanks John,
I think I'm gonna attempt it this weekend. I've got a lathe and a mill as well so it should be no problem. 
Do you know if the center of the sproket was hardened as well or just the teeth?
 
As for your tank, I say try it, you've got nothing to loose, and a ton of knowledge to gain.  I just picked up an english wheel as well, but just havn't had a project to try and use it on yet.  But I'm pretty stoked about it.
 
Have you tryed torch welding the alu yet.  This is something I'd like to learn but have never known anyone local that can do it to show me.
Cheers.
D.

Good Luck with the sprocket!  I am hoping the center (splined part) of the sprocket is less hard than the outside was, which took forever to machine it down. I have a lathe but not a mill would love to have one of course!  I use to have access to all kinds of machine shop equipment where I worked but now I am limited to what I have at home.

I am certainly going to attempt the tank, the plan is to do it all by hand with mallet and bag, hammers and dolly's.  I might build my own english wheel but I am hoping to do the tank without using one.  I have done ally welding with oxy-acetylene many years ago, it is not easy!  I plan to buy a new torch, a Meco Midget which is supposed to be very easy to control and is good for use with ally.  Again I wish I had a TIG but it's too big of an expense for me at this time.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 25, 2011, 00:07:34
Any opinions on what grade of ally I should use for building my tank?  I was thinking of using 3003 (16 gauge).  I will be welding it with  oxy-acetylene.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 26, 2011, 21:03:42
Ok well this will basically be the tank I will be making.  It will be 1" longer than the styrofoam model and maybe 1/2" lower on the overall height.  I will also match the angle at the front of the tank to the fork angle when looking at the side profile.  Don't laugh at my weak attempt at using paint to draw a very rough outline of the tail/seat unit.  At this point I don't think I want to use the RS125 tail that I was thinking of using.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: donald branscom on Oct 26, 2011, 22:32:31
$600?! I'd say it's a steal. For some odd reason, any old Suzuki's cost an arm and a leg around me. Good luck, I'll be watching this one too.


The reason they cost more is because Suzuki has such good fit and finish.
Look at any Suzuki up close and see what I mean.






Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Big Rich on Oct 27, 2011, 01:33:34
Thanks Donald, I own 3 Suzuki's currently. Along with 3 Honda's and a cheap Chinese scooter. I meant in my previous statement that any Suzuki cycles that show up locally are generally much more expensive than other areas.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 30, 2011, 23:33:31
Bought some bars and clamps on ebay for $30 shipped, a great deal.  They are from on 05 KTM in perfect condition.  Started making an adapter plate (3/4" 6061 ally) to fit the bars to the Kawi top clamp.  Wish I had a mill to machine the outer shape.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Tim on Oct 30, 2011, 23:58:02
Looks great - any reason you couldn't just drill holes into the triple tree?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 31, 2011, 00:14:37
Looks great - any reason you couldn't just drill holes into the triple tree?
There are cut outs in the original top clamp right where the holes would need to go.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Oct 31, 2011, 00:31:13
 I fill welded the back side cavities then bored the holes to hold the bars. 
On your current system could you drill the 4 top clamp hold down holes and then drill and tap the new plate from the bottom up to bolt them together?  That would show 4 less bolts from the top view.  Loctite of course. 
 I've done 2 of these and I know the underside of the triples are webbed for strength but it makes it difficult to mount bars sometimes.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 31, 2011, 00:35:44
I fill welded the back side cavities then bored the holes to hold the bars.
  Cheers, 50gary


Unfortunately I don't have a TIG welder so I wasn't able to go that route.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 03, 2011, 22:02:58
A bit of progress.  Started the mock tail/seat unit, I got the profile mostly done but I'll probably shave some off the top to slim it down a little.  I will be adding a generous radius where the actual seat and tail part meet.  Tomorrow hopefully I can do the rest of the shaping!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: milehigh on Nov 04, 2011, 12:42:12
I can't wait to see how this project turns out.  I'd agree, shave down the back a bit.  I'll be following this thread to see it to completion! then i will copy it all...hahaha
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Nov 04, 2011, 14:17:36
Styling.  John, usually don't say much about the styling of bike builds because it's the builder's own vision.  How-some-ever.. I think the reason the tank looks a bit tall it not because it is but rather that it's too short on the bottom.  The tank and seat do not rise above the top of the steerer tube so it's not too tall to my eye.  I would extend the tank mock up bottom line (and the seat mock up) below the frame rails, this would draw the eye down and close the gap somewhat between the engine and  the tank.  It would also hide the top frame rails.  I particularly like a lower tank "wing" that flares out over the engine head.  I once saw a Gilera Saturno with a race tank much like that, pure sex IMO.  My two cents.  As always I really like your work, this is going to be a two stroke Superbike. 
   Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 04, 2011, 16:27:04
Thanks Gary.  I had thought of extending the bottom of the tank and seat down to the bottom of the frame rails as I do not wish to see the top rails.  However this makes the tank a bit more difficult to build!  It still may happen though.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 04, 2011, 19:27:39
Ok well I did some more shaping today and I am pretty happy with where its at now (I may reduce the radius at the back slightly).  The tail will house the battery and electrical components and maybe the oil tank also, so I am reluctant to make it any smaller than it is right now. 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: JustinLonghorn on Nov 04, 2011, 19:47:14
Yes sir, I can dig it.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: DreadRock on Nov 04, 2011, 19:53:27
Really looking good johnu ! tank and seat are coming together man , starting to look fast ....
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 11, 2011, 11:06:58
This is for you Gary.  The tank covering the top frame rail.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Nov 11, 2011, 12:25:17
That's about what I had in mind.  cleans up the bottom line.  I suspect there's no interference between the tank and triples?  If you made that lower strip merely a "skirt" it may be easier to make?  I envision the process as a two part assembly with the top portion of the tank being  one large piece (incorporating the skirt) and the bottom (the second piece) being the floor of the tank inserting into the upper and epoxied to form one piece.  On my tank I used fuel proof foam stuffed inside to eliminate fuel slosh during hard cornering.   It's the same foam used in auto racing fuel cells.  Not cheap but a cool trick.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 11, 2011, 22:12:24
Yes I plan on that bottom 25mm being just a skirt.  Incidentely the tank is going to be ally so the top and bottom (as you described) will be edge welded together.  The actual tank will have the same angle at the front as the forks so a little different to my mock up.  so far no issues with forks hitting the tank.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Nov 11, 2011, 23:33:15
Opps, I had forgotten you mentioned the aluminum tank/seat as a possibility. 
   Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Tschiffely on Nov 12, 2011, 12:41:32
Awesome.. Tank looks better in its latest, lower stance. But what's my opinion matter?

Keep up the nice work!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Dec 07, 2011, 13:10:52
Well I just got back from England after visiting family for a couple of weeks.  Got to hang out with my dad and dink around with some of his bikes.  Fired up his gold star and rocket goldstar, also a 1934 Velocete 350.  It was a bit too cold and damp to ride though.

Anyway I am moving forward with the T500, I got some of the subframe done which took a little while.  I don't have a tube bender so I had to make a jig and use heat to bend the tubes.  Here are a couple of pics.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Dec 07, 2011, 13:58:59
John, you did a great job on the subframe without having a tubing bender.  I like  look of the curved seat support giving an exposed look to the tire, swingarm and shock.
I'm doing the same on the Yamaha RT but mine is to follow the curve of the fuel tank.  Great to have you back "on the job"
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Swagger on Dec 07, 2011, 14:54:28
Indeed! I'm sure I missed it so please forgive....
What shock rear are you using there? Did you choose a wheel rate and build from that spec or like 90% of us....are you "working backward"? The reason I ask; I'm laying the groundwork for my RH build and it got cantilevered rear suspension too. I've got a lovely Ohlins that was supposed to go on my old 955 but that bike went away before i installed it. I will need to respring it and likely will need to see to the shim-stack as well but that's all addressable. I'm kind of gathering insight at this point so whatever you have to give is welcome.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Dec 07, 2011, 15:55:20
Indeed! I'm sure I missed it so please forgive....
What shock rear are you using there? Did you choose a wheel rate and build from that spec or like 90% of us....are you "working backward"? The reason I ask; I'm laying the groundwork for my RH build and it got cantilevered rear suspension too. I've got a lovely Ohlins that was supposed to go on my old 955 but that bike went away before i installed it. I will need to respring it and likely will need to see to the shim-stack as well but that's all addressable. I'm kind of gathering insight at this point so whatever you have to give is welcome.

The shock is off of a Kawi 650 Ninja.  I chose that shock specifically because the Kawi is a non-linkage setup.  My bike will be a lot lighter than the 650 so not sure how it will work out.  If all is well when I ride it (eventually) I will look for an aftermarket upgraded replacement.  Location points are seat of the pants to be honest but I do have the ride height adjustment that I built in to the top mount.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Swagger on Dec 07, 2011, 16:03:02
Thanks mate! Your mounts look to be within reason, looks as though the shock will stay 'in arc' even at full stuff so yeah, maybe some spring/shim swapping bit it looks good from here!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Jan 11, 2012, 14:10:18
Ok it's been a while since I've posted any progress and unfortunately there is still none.  However I did get my ported cylinders back from Zooke which look good so now I can get them bored.  I am swamped with work right now (started my own buisiness about a year ago and it's really taking off) so the bike has to take a back seat. 

I may be reconsidering making my own tank and pipes due to the lack of time I have to dedicate to the project, I want to be riding it so I may go a slightly different route.  I'd still like to use a similar shape tank, if I can find something squarish I could just modify it to suit.  So far I haven't come up with anything even close so if anyone has suggestions I'd like to hear them.  I will probably end up purchasing the Swarbrick pipe kit, that way I can route the pipes exactly how I want them by cutting and rotating some of the pre-made cones
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: DreadRock on Jan 11, 2012, 14:24:50
you could use something like this and just mod it to your liking its a  78 xs500 tank....(http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h331/dreadrock1/081.jpg)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Jan 11, 2012, 19:46:10
you could use something like this and just mod it to your liking its a  78 xs500 tank....(http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h331/dreadrock1/081.jpg)

Thanks!  You may have come up with a very good option, from my limited research on this tank it is 23.5" long which is perfect.  A quick glance on ebay this afternoon however is not encouraging, all of the examples I saw were way above what I would be willing to spend on something that I will be modifying.  I could only really justify laying out about $50 and that would have to have a working cap with it.  I don't really care about dents but wouldn't want some thing that is hideously rusty inside.

I see you are a KTM man also!!

Again thanks.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: joeybaggadonuts on Jan 11, 2012, 20:50:16
Ah man. I was looking forward to that tank you came up with! I understand business comes first though. This is still a great build. 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: DreadRock on Jan 11, 2012, 22:43:56
man just had a guy in my area right befor the holidays that had one with working cap just no key . i just wanted it for the petcocks but could of picked it up for 100.00 grrrrrr just didnt have the $$. I know there out there took me about 2 months to find one with minor dent and rust free . picked it up for around 100.oo just the tank no petcocks . i know there are other XS like the 400 that ran that tank. or even someone here might have one?
yea once i rode one its the only off-road bike i would buy ! never did ride a motard tho wanted one but i could just see red and blue lights ever time i took it out for a ride LOL
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: zooke581 on Jan 11, 2012, 23:17:15
  I will probably end up purchasing the Swarbrick pipe kit, that way I can route the pipes exactly how I want them by cutting and rotating some of the pre-made cones


You might try Jemco pipes in Texas.  They make a a set of pipes just like Swarbricks that you can modify. 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Jan 11, 2012, 23:22:48
If you already know the "formula" you can order pre-formed cones from 'Air Cone' in Salt Lake City Utah.  Then it's cut and weld for fit and clearance.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Jan 27, 2012, 22:42:15
Well I was able to make a little progress today.  I got my offset counter sprocket made, it gives me about 9mm of offset but I can shim it out a couple more if needed.  I also installed the engine to line up the sprockets but I pushed in the shift shaft and of course I didn't have the clutch case on and the shaft moved over which disengaged the gear selector!!  Now I have to take the clutch off to re-postion it.  I hate doing stuff like that.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: teazer on Jan 30, 2012, 15:19:24
Have you looked at a TZ/TD tank?  They are not identical to your shape, especially the lower front edge, but very similar.  I suspect that the sump would be an issue, but there are RD versions of the tank without a sump that might work.  Or make up a carbon shell and make a simple alloy box inside it for fuel.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Swagger on Jan 30, 2012, 20:26:28
Is it me or is there an 'extra' splined shaft on the sprocket side? What am I missing?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: JustinLonghorn on Jan 30, 2012, 21:13:33
Lee,

The kicker on these Suzukis is on the left side.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Swagger on Jan 30, 2012, 23:02:38
That explains it!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Feb 01, 2012, 00:29:06
Have you looked at a TZ/TD tank?  They are not identical to your shape, especially the lower front edge, but very similar.  I suspect that the sump would be an issue, but there are RD versions of the tank without a sump that might work.  Or make up a carbon shell and make a simple alloy box inside it for fuel.

Thanks yes, I had been considering the RD option.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Feb 23, 2012, 21:18:27
I have made a bit of progress, some of you may have seen in the tank & seat section that I am working on my ally seat.  Here are some pics of what I have done so far, all the parts in the pics still need final shaping and hammering.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Big-D on Feb 24, 2012, 14:15:59
Wow, just had to read the entire thread. Love this bike!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: bradj on Feb 24, 2012, 17:13:59
Plus 1
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Mar 03, 2012, 00:50:15
Got started welding up the ally tail and seat unit.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: bradj on Mar 03, 2012, 01:27:08
Killa
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: JustinLonghorn on Mar 03, 2012, 09:54:15
Ballin' sir.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: DreadRock on Mar 04, 2012, 11:45:28
Looking down right steller !
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Mar 27, 2012, 13:02:28
Here's where I'm at right now.  Got the seat/tail section finished just have to buy the dzus fasteners and make the mounting brackets.  I will be just using seat foam glued right to the unit so that will be easy.  Next I think I will make the new oil tank that will go under the seat cowl.  I made all the spacers for the rear wheel and now I am ready weld the rear caliper locator on the swing arm.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Big-D on Mar 27, 2012, 13:05:25
Gets better and better each time
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 1969Honda on Mar 27, 2012, 17:35:53
Lookin' Good!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Apr 17, 2012, 16:36:17
Had to modify the swingarm because I had a bit more chain rub than I had calculated.  I'll be installing a wearstrip inside the channel that I formed.  Here are the pics of the surgery!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Apr 17, 2012, 19:51:04
John what is the angle of your swingarm installed?  Did you make your new channel to accept a chain slider is that what you're calling a wear strip?  Your body work look's the business BTW, great job.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Apr 17, 2012, 21:52:00
John what is the angle of your swingarm installed?  Did you make your new channel to accept a chain slider is that what you're calling a wear strip?  Your body work look's the business BTW, great job.
  Cheers, 50gary

Thanks.  The swingarm angle is 10.5* which gives me right around 24* of rake on the forks.  I can adjust the ride height which would change both of those angles.  Yes a KTM chain slider (wear strip) will be used.  I was thinking I would be using a larger rear sprocket which would have offered a bit more clearance on the swingarm but I was restricted to using only a 16t on the front so had to size down the rear accordingly.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on May 03, 2012, 19:30:44
Thanks.  The swingarm angle is 10.5* which gives me right around 24* of rake on the forks.  I can adjust the ride height which would change both of those angles.  Yes a KTM chain slider (wear strip) will be used.  I was thinking I would be using a larger rear sprocket which would have offered a bit more clearance on the swingarm but I was restricted to using only a 16t on the front so had to size down the rear accordingly.

I re-checked the angles and the s/a is at 12* and forks 24*.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on May 03, 2012, 19:41:49
Well I have been working on the bike but progress is very slow.  I have never liked the bottom shock mounting that I originally made and installed so I came up with another solution and mounted that.  If I was doing the build over I would have just fabricated my own round tubular swingarm.... maybe that can come later!  I also have the seat/tail mounted use Dzus fasteners.  I was planning to just use 1/2" black seat foam glued to the seat base but now I have sat on the bike with the seat mounted I can't believe how low it is!  I'm not sure what I'll do about that yet.  I will probably start working on the tank again now.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: DreadRock on May 03, 2012, 22:31:12
As a KTM rider i can enjoy seeing that set up ! What made you change your mind just didnt like the set up ? Bike is looking really trick man !
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on May 03, 2012, 22:48:36
John, A casual thought, you might give a second look (sometime in the future) at the linked relay type of S/A.  It's simple really and puts the weight low and out of sight. (mostly) also out the the way of the carburetors and such.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Big-D on May 04, 2012, 09:11:14
Still gives me wood haha
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on May 04, 2012, 12:26:55
As a KTM rider i can enjoy seeing that set up ! What made you change your mind just didnt like the set up ? Bike is looking really trick man !

KTM's rule!! 

It doesn't flow with the frame well enough. 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on May 04, 2012, 12:28:22
John, A casual thought, you might give a second look (sometime in the future) at the linked relay type of S/A.  It's simple really and puts the weight low and out of sight. (mostly) also out the the way of the carburetors and such.
  Cheers, 50gary


Are you talking about having the shock mounted below the s/a kind of parallel to the bottom of the arm?

I would have built something in round tube and sheet metal based on the Aprillia arm below.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on May 04, 2012, 18:29:44
Yes, like most modern bikes.  A tube version of that Aprillia S/A would be too cool.  Buy just the linkage and shock from a 2010+ Sportbike and use the shock and linkage in virtually the same geometry as on the donor and your tube swinger, done deal.  You might have to re-spring it to your bike's weight but that's not a problem.  My latest project is a 2002 YZ250 S/A on a '73 RT360 chassis conversion. Track bike.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on May 05, 2012, 21:43:07
Gary, I thought you meant an underslung shock.  I wanted to go with no linkage suspension just to keep things simple but I may consider a linkage setup later on as there is a much wider selection of shocks (high quality) available.  The shock I am using which is off the Kawi Ninja 650 is pretty low end.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on May 05, 2012, 23:05:11
Oh gawd no, I mean regular sportbike fare.  Why re-invent the wheel or shock in this case.  Linkage is simple, all you need is the proper pick up point on the lower rear of the chassis and copy the factory set up.  Most are 2 to 1 ratio and thus are a compact installation.  I have three GSX-r shocks here in the garage I'll donate one if you go the Suzuki route eye on top clevis on the lower.  They are quite large units compared to some other. They can be rebuilt and set up but don't have the level of adjustment of an aftermarket shock.  I like Penske not quite as expensive as the Ohlins.  I have a Fox twin clicker on the Yamaha and it works well although a bit heavier than the latest gear.  I know you know all what I'm saying, just garage chat kicking out ideas?
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on May 08, 2012, 10:28:19
I'll hit you up for that shock if I decide to go to a new swinger - thanks!  Right now the plan is to get the thing running by the middle of July!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Jun 05, 2012, 20:35:13
Well the project has taken a back seat just lately but I am now going to try and sort out the electrical stuff on the bike which is my least favourite part (mostly because I don't know what I'm doing).  Its a bit of a headache because the bike started out as a 1972 T500 (points ignition) but it was then fitted with a 1975 GT500 engine (electronic ignition).  There are some dubious looking connections and of course several wires not even connected!  I am just working my way through at this point identifiying parts and such, also gathering new parts.  So far I have a new ignition switch, hydraulic rear brake light switch and a handlebar switch for lights turn signals and horn.  The battery in the pic is the same physical size as the one i'll be using but it will be a 6ah rather than the 4ah shown.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Jun 08, 2012, 19:13:27
Ok I got fed up trying to figure out the electrical stuff, didn't get anywhere so I decided to work on the foot controls.  I am using the old footrests from my Triumph Daytona but not sure if I will use the Triumph brake and gear shift levers yet.  I got the brackets made and tacked to the frame, won't be welding them until I strip down to the frame for powder coat.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Jun 08, 2012, 21:25:46
John, you're a man after my own heart ha ha That's great and so simple.  Some guys over think a simple solution.   Always fun to drop in and see your work.  Is there a small gusset behind the bracket?
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Jun 11, 2012, 16:49:55
Yes, I'll be adding the gussets when I am certain the position is correct.  I am a big believer in simple!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: DesmoBro on Jun 11, 2012, 16:55:48
this bike is coming out great! I hope you finish it by next month as planned ( I said the same thing last month) Damn electrical! has anyone ever made a wiring diagram that doesn't look as confusing as a Train map???
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: teazer on Jun 13, 2012, 01:17:35
Split it into multiple simple circuits.  Start with ignition and wire that through.  Then do the charge circuit, and then headlights and add tail lights and brake lights

I usually start with a wiring diagram of the motor donor bike and highlight one circuit then take another copy and trace out the next one.  Rinse and repeat.

Often I find it easier to draw each circuit out on a scratch pad/legal pad so I can see what I'm working with.  Multimeter is a useful tool when working out switch connections with multiple wires and positions.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Jun 14, 2012, 19:38:37
Split it into multiple simple circuits.  Start with ignition and wire that through.  Then do the charge circuit, and then headlights and add tail lights and brake lights

I usually start with a wiring diagram of the motor donor bike and highlight one circuit then take another copy and trace out the next one.  Rinse and repeat.

Often I find it easier to draw each circuit out on a scratch pad/legal pad so I can see what I'm working with.  Multimeter is a useful tool when working out switch connections with multiple wires and positions.

I will try this method.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Jun 15, 2012, 11:40:06
Got the brake side done, decided to use the Triumph brake pedal and I'll use the gear shifter as well just need to get a linkage rod made up for that.  Also have to cut down the original shift lever and braze weld an eye on it for the rod end to connect to.

Will be making the battery tray today.  Just ordered my oil tank from US Plastics, so should have that done next week as well.

Thinking about painting the cylinder heads black.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: teazer on Jun 15, 2012, 11:51:30
Great progress.  Those stock zinc based "VM32" are just for mock up yes?  They are very different, and heavy, compared to normal aluminum VM carbs and not so good to jet. They appear to be the "homopressure" carbs that Suzuki used to tweak the fuel curve and are somewhat problematic on a performance motor.

They are usable, just not as easy to tune.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Jun 15, 2012, 11:58:52
Thanks.  Eric suggested using 34mm Mikunis but I am not sure if 32's (new) would be better.  I plan to buy the new carbs from Sudco or is there a better supplier?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: teazer on Jun 15, 2012, 12:05:19
Either will work fine.  I'd probably go with 34 and use a bigger handful at low speed :-)

SUDCO are fine. Just get the best deal possible because some/all of the brass will end up being swapped out.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Jun 15, 2012, 13:09:52
Sudco (for the VM34's) are good but not the lowest price. How ever they should be able to supply (with Eric's advise) initial jetting that's very close to correct.  Idle jets and mains are not too costly but make sure you get the correct slides right off (air valve)  Your rear sets are the business.  I might consider doing the heads in gold to match the pegs.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: JustinLonghorn on Jun 15, 2012, 14:11:34
Talk to member Sonreir when you go to buy your carbs. I think he has a deal with Sudco.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Jun 18, 2012, 14:18:01
Talk to member Sonreir when you go to buy your carbs. I think he has a deal with Sudco.
Talk to member Sonreir when you go to buy your carbs. I think he has a deal with Sudco.

Thank, I'll do that.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Jun 20, 2012, 16:27:42
Oil tank is mounted!  Also welded on brakets for the coil.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Jun 26, 2012, 18:15:35
Battery and electrical components mounted under seat/tail.  Next I'll be installing headlights.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Big-D on Jun 27, 2012, 09:01:09
Looks good! Love seeing the progress on this
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Jul 05, 2012, 15:57:52
Thanks!  Headlights are mounted.  Now I have to find a rear light and figure out my turn signals.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: DesmoBro on Jul 05, 2012, 17:03:27
Looks awesome Man What kind of head lights are those?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Jul 06, 2012, 00:22:38
My favorite tail light is from the Suzuki SV650.  I've used it twice.  You're almost there!  Has your Dad made it to the States yet, you mentioned he was coming in July and would help with the electrics?
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Jul 06, 2012, 11:39:26
Looks awesome Man What kind of head lights are those?

Thanks, actually they are called "driving lights" which I got from autozone for $29 don't think they will give out a lot of light.  I won't be riding this bike on the road that often and when I do I doubt it will be at night so not a big issue for me.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: JustinLonghorn on Jul 06, 2012, 11:40:46
Man, I love this project.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Jul 06, 2012, 11:40:51
My favorite tail light is from the Suzuki SV650.  I used it twice.  You're almost there!  Has your Dad made it to the States yet, you mentioned he was coming in July and would help with the electrics?
  Cheers, 50gary

I will check out the sv light.  My dad just got here yesterday so I will be putting him to work on the bike!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: teazer on Jul 06, 2012, 14:18:55
Excellent choice of oil tank.  I used the same (or similar) on the Phat Trakka.  You make much thicker brackets than me.  I use thin gauge sheet steel and bend it or use a bracket cut off another frame (my favorite source).

Auto fab shops sell all manner of sheet steel brackets too.

BTW, make sure that your oil tank breather hole is clear.

Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Jul 06, 2012, 19:40:06
Yes I should make stuff thinner especially as I am trying to make this bike as light as possible.  Most everything else that I have fabricated on the bike is at what I consider minimum thickness.  I will check the breather hole.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: bradj on Jul 06, 2012, 20:56:58
Man i got to get back on my 500. To many irons in the fire i guess. Love your bike man
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 1969Honda on Jul 10, 2012, 21:11:00
Love the look of the bike! On a side note if you decide to go the SV650 tail light rough PM and I might have a good deal on a Clear Alternatives one for ya.   Did I mention I love the lights, not a fan of duels but those look the part!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Jul 11, 2012, 12:28:12
Started the wiring yesterday.  Possibly going to use one headlight on for low beam and two on for high beam just to keep the law happy.  It appears that there was no flasher unit on the bike when I got it, that explains why the flasher wires weren't connected up I suppose.  I think I am going to get one of the those three terminal Tridon flasher units from Pep Boys.  Says it is for use with leds so hopefully that will work out.  Still haven't decide on the rear light yet I'll probably just use the cheap led one I had for another project just for mockup.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Jul 25, 2012, 12:48:17
Well I got all the electrical done except for the horn which I don't have yet but the wiring is in place for it.  The Tridon flasher relay works great with the LED turn signals.  Not sure if the charging is working properly but I guess i will find out one way or another!  This is a milestone on the project as it was the biggest challenge of all.  I actually fired the bike up just to make sure everything is working so I am excited to keep moving forward now.

The only major part I have left to do is make the alloy tank which is a project just by itself.  I have to also decide if I am going to make the expansion chambers or buy them.  Of course I have tons of small things to do like finishing the foot controls, chain guide etc.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: DreadRock on Jul 25, 2012, 22:02:50
Thats great man ,wiring sucks ! would like to see a pic of it all wired up and see where you mounted things if you have . Got mine almost done and always like to see how others have done theres . Now get back to work on that tank  ;D
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Jul 27, 2012, 12:31:06
Wiring does suck!  When I say the wiring is done I should have said I have got everything electrical working, it looks like a bunch of spaghetti at the moment.  Will post pics when it is all neat and tidy.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Aug 09, 2012, 17:30:47
Here are a couple of pics of where I'm at.  Doesn't look like much progress but getting the electrical done (all working at least) is a big hurdle cleared.  The tank in the pics is just the stocker for mock up, I am thinking about just modifying it instead of building a whole new tank.  Not sure if I can bring myself to cut up this tank though as it is absolutely straight with no dings, would be perfect to use for someones resto.  I will probably end up putting a cowl on the front to hide the wiring, originally it was all in the headlight bucket.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: teazer on Aug 09, 2012, 17:48:22
I know it's late in the day to ask, but is there any way to move that battery forward a foot or so? I hate to see it cantilevered out there.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Aug 10, 2012, 00:33:50
The battery position is a real compromise, I know you are right.  However I really don't have anywhere else to put it.  Only option is to relocate the oil tank in the space above the shock then move the battery to where the oil tank is now.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: teazer on Aug 10, 2012, 00:52:17
What about under the swingarm just behind the pivot - old trick from Triton builders.  Or inside the fuel tank fitted into a compartment from below. Or what about the electrics tray - could it be made 2 inches deeper and rearranged? I should have spotted it earlier.

Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Aug 10, 2012, 13:41:00
What about under the swingarm just behind the pivot - old trick from Triton builders.  Or inside the fuel tank fitted into a compartment from below. Or what about the electrics tray - could it be made 2 inches deeper and rearranged? I should have spotted it earlier.


  Will look at possibly locating above swingarm pivot.  Off topic but.... where did you get that tacho/speedo that you have on your gt750?  Could I use one of those on my 500?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: teazer on Aug 10, 2012, 18:51:00
It's a Trail tech Vapor that I got off ebay new at a nicely discounted price - which isn't always the case on that auction site.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Aug 10, 2012, 18:57:59
Are they model specific or do you calibrate it somehow to suit your bike?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: teazer on Aug 11, 2012, 02:00:06
Yes and no.  By that I mean that they do have some model specific set ups but the head is the same.  All that changes are the speedo triggers.  Mine came with a speedo lead that was probably 2 feet too long but it was easy to wrap in a small coil to take up the surplus length.  It has a stiff shroud over that lead to protect it, so i had to trim that carefully.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Aug 15, 2012, 21:13:52
I got my tail lamp in, it's brake and tail.  I'm not 100% on it but for now it will suffice.  I'll most likely put flush mount turn signals on the underside of the tail.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: DesmoBro on Aug 15, 2012, 21:37:36
I cant wait to see more pics with the ally tank...looks Bad @$$
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Aug 17, 2012, 19:43:39
Ally tank is going to take a while!  Scored this almost mint nissin radial master cylinder off of ebay for $26 been looking for one for ages.  Just need some shorty levers and a smaller fluid reservior now. 

Also still not sure what to do about all the wires at the front below the lights.  I modified a WR250f front number plate to use but didn't like the look with the cutout for the lights.  I like it as it is (bare) if the wires could be hidden.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Aug 17, 2012, 21:03:48
John, that's a pesky problem with all the wires and no headlight nacell to put them into?  I  would make a light guage sheet metal container to hold them.  Perhaps right in line with the head tube and painted black or just under the front of the tank, maybe even on top of the lower triple?  Mostly water tight.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: teazer on Aug 18, 2012, 15:23:06
Or a small carbon fiber box to fit below the lights between the fork legs or behind the lights.

I had to do that on mine to hide those connectors.  BTW, there are some great waterproof connectors on the market now that look neat and OEM. Molex, Sumitomo and others make them and they are all available on line. I use Eastern Beaver but there are other suppliers around.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 1969Honda on Aug 20, 2012, 02:49:10
Nice score on the master cylinder! 8) Looks a lot like the one on my CB350 project that I took from a ZX636, the only down side is the tight radius on the upper brake line (http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/r526/1969honda/brake_connection.jpg); (http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/r526/1969honda/brake_connection2.jpg).  It makes it a little hard to grab a generic 90 degree hose and button things up!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: bradj on Aug 20, 2012, 04:27:53
love it
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Aug 21, 2012, 00:07:28
Nice score on the master cylinder! 8) Looks a lot like the one on my CB350 project that I took from a ZX636, the only down side is the tight radius on the upper brake line.  It makes it a little hard to grab a generic 90 degree hose and button things up!

Yes, mine is of off a 2006 ZX636 the calipers I think are from a 2003.  I was planning to use a brake line from each caliper back to the master instead of the linked line from one caliper to the other.  I don't think that I will need a 90* fitting at the master, I think a straight fitting will work then just run mostly parallel to the handlebar and curve down throught the forks.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Aug 22, 2012, 21:02:53
Time to start on the tank!  I worked on the pattern today but for me the this is the worst part of the project, I hate working with wood.  The ally fabricating will be fun and the welding will be challenging.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: DesmoBro on Aug 22, 2012, 21:06:21
lots of work but well Worth It!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: bradj on Aug 23, 2012, 09:41:03
a monkey can weld the form work is the hard work. did i mention i love it
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Aug 23, 2012, 10:52:42
Thanks normally welding is no problem but this tank will be aluminum and I will be gas welding it!  No tig available which would make it simple.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Aug 23, 2012, 12:24:55
Many things are "easy" once you know how.  T.I.G. welding is one of the things I enjoy in building.  However, until you get the hang of it TIG-ing aluminum in thin guages it's not so easy.  Too much heat and the alu. is instantly gone and a hole is there, sh!# is a typical response.
  John I'd like to be there for the first start up this is a fun build all the way through, hang in there.  My projects are on hold due to family illness (not me) so it's vicarious fun watching the work of others.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Aug 23, 2012, 14:07:32
Many things are "easy" once you know how.  T.I.G. welding is one of the things I enjoy in building.  However, until you get the hang of it TIG-ing aluminum in thin guages it's not so easy.  Too much heat and the alu. is instantly gone and a hole is there, sh!# is a typical response.
  John I'd like to be there for the first start up this is a fun build all the way through, hang in there.  My projects are on hold due to family illness (not me) so it's vicarious fun watching the work of others.
  Cheers, 50gary
Gary, I've done my share of TIG in the past and for me at least once I get everything set to my liking it's a peice of cake.  Not sure if you've tried gas welding ally but it is of course similar to TIG in method, on a scale though for me at least it is 10x more difficult.  I've seen guys welding ally with gas like it's nothing but that takes constant practice.
Sorry to hear of the illness of your family member.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: kwazykid on Aug 24, 2012, 12:07:56
Oooo! I've been waiting so long for you to start the tank! I would love to try something like this! Amazing work by the way!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Sep 28, 2012, 13:56:49
Well I just got back from three weeks in England riding with my dad on his BSA's and various other Brit bikes (pic below).  Now on to the tank, got the wooden pattern more or less done so it's time to start on cutting and shaping some alloy finally!  I still have to source a cheap flush mount fuel filler cap that I can use in an alloy tank.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Sep 28, 2012, 20:59:52
Your bike is looking quite modern therefore I would use a bolt in sport bike (ebay) flush cap.  Easy, (relatively) no welding on the flat top of the tank?
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 03, 2012, 19:43:42
Well I am moving forward with the tank.  Sides and top ar made and ready for welding.  As it sits right now it will have about 20mm removed from the bottom edge of the tank so it will look a bit more streamline than it does right now.  First practice weld with the oxy-acetylene also shown.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Oct 03, 2012, 23:52:15
Your tank is going to be very nice.  It's look's as if you're using a slight lap joint.  I might have done the filler hole before welding?  I've never scratch built an aluminum tank before so I'll pay close attention here.  My brother and Dad are with you, they both prefer gas welding.  Just this past week (finally) I upgraded my T.I.G. set-up to a water cooled torch, I really like it.  The torch is half the physical size and double the amperage.  It shouldn't make any difference but the arc seems more stable and easier to start.  Happy day, sorry for the thread interruption.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 04, 2012, 00:28:50
Gary, I think it will likely be better to put the filler hole in after welding and straightening, probably less chance of the hole distorting that way.  I will just be using a bolt in filler as you suggested earlier.  I would love to have a TIG at the very least for the ease of tacking parts together!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 05, 2012, 18:06:59
Did some more work to the tank but I will be now making another one!  I like the shape on the bike it looks great.  Problem is everyone told me to use 14ga alloy but I decided I wanted it to be light so I used 16ga.... big mistake!  Distortion is out of control and very difficult to try and straighten, also it will dent easy for sure.  So out to pick up half a sheet of 14ga.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 24, 2012, 14:54:05
Small progress, shift linkage completed.  Most of my time is spent on the tank at the moment.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 25, 2012, 21:09:03

Well I got the bottom of the tank made and it fits really well, I am pleased with how it looks so far.  I had to build the tank like this with the flange around the edge because I don't want to see the frame rails.  Now I have to source a petcock and aluminum bung to braze in the bottom before I weld it to the tank top.  Lots of practicing with edge welding first anyway!!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Oct 26, 2012, 00:38:09
Looking good John, very nice.  I have never built an alloy tank, I'm kinda tanking notes.   I have used Pingle petcocks and like them.  Nice quality and smooth action.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 1969Honda on Oct 26, 2012, 21:29:57
Looking top notch John, I love the detail and I'm digging the style of this bike.  Keep up the good work and keep us updated.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 26, 2012, 21:35:31
Ok peeps, I got the tank filler installed and made a new longer rear engine mount bolt today - so moving along!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 1969Honda on Oct 26, 2012, 21:37:53
Looks awesome, what tank filler did you use?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 27, 2012, 22:19:21
Looks awesome, what tank filler did you use?


Thanks!  The filler I bought off of ebay, $29.99 tons of them on there. 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Flying J on Oct 28, 2012, 00:42:09
Well I am moving forward with the tank.  Sides and top ar made and ready for welding.  As it sits right now it will have about 20mm removed from the bottom edge of the tank so it will look a bit more streamline than it does right now.  First practice weld with the oxy-acetylene also shown.

Its hard to tell but is the top of the tank overlapping the sides a little or are the in perfect alignment?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: zooke581 on Oct 28, 2012, 23:47:14
Tank and all are looking good.  The longer stem on the shift shaft is going to make shifting easier and more precise.  Good job all around.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 29, 2012, 11:44:04
Its hard to tell but is the top of the tank overlapping the sides a little or are the in perfect alignment?

They are perfectly aligned which should make the edge weld easier to do.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 29, 2012, 11:46:10
Tank and all are looking good.  The longer stem on the shift shaft is going to make shifting easier and more precise.  Good job all around.


Thanks Eric, good to see you back on here.  I have run the motor since you ported it but only using the stock carbs and pipes.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: zooke581 on Oct 29, 2012, 21:40:43
Stock carbs will keep it from breathing properly and the stock pipes are okay with modified baffles.  Should still be quite a difference from stock.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 29, 2012, 23:35:13
I only ran it to check the electrical system, it won't be ridden like this.  I should be getting 34mm carbs soon and I am going to use Swarbricks pipes.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 31, 2012, 01:32:34

I got the bottom welded in the tank today which went pretty smoothly.  As you can see in the pic my welds with the o/a are getting better.  Next job is the tunnel and mounting brackets.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Pattheswede on Oct 31, 2012, 07:44:39
Looking Good!
I have done my gastanks in steel, but alloy will most certenly be next step in progress :)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Oct 31, 2012, 09:03:42
Johnu, excellent work, that has got to be so satisfying.  How long of a bead can you run like that without getting too much heat and distortion?  What filler rod did you use, would it be different for TIG vs. the O/A?
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 31, 2012, 10:48:05
Yes I am really enjoying making this tank now, I was expecting it to be a chore in the begining.  I am totally surprised at how little distortion I have had to deal with although I have had tons of experience with welded structures so I can determine fairly well how to sequence the welding.  And I did sections of about 3" long welds.  The big thing is getting the flame set exactly right, well that and having a good eye and feel for when to move the flame a little to reduce the heat momentarily. I am using 1100 TIG rod with the 3003 alloy sheet.

My new goal now is to have the bike done before Christmas.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Oct 31, 2012, 10:49:47
Looking Good!
I have done my gastanks in steel, but alloy will most certenly be next step in progress :)


I saw the work you did on the steel tank which was very impressive. 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 02, 2012, 20:46:27
Tunnel ready for welding.  You can just see Mk1 tunnel in the background, it doesn't always go right the first time!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Tim on Nov 02, 2012, 22:39:32
That's some awesome work.  One Q I have though, is about the trapped fuel in that area of the tank bottom / sides above the welded edge.  I mean it's not a problem near as I can see, aside from the fact the tank would be difficult to drain/dry fully and you might end up with residue / sediment in that thin cavity.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 03, 2012, 12:16:38
I see what you are saying but I'm thinking any sediment or fines in the fuel are probably better off being in that isolated area than going through the engine or plugging up up the fuel filter.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 05, 2012, 14:18:29
Tunnel welded, now I just have the mounting brackets and petcock to do.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: JustinLonghorn on Nov 05, 2012, 14:45:29
Damn that is looking sexy, sir.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: RotaryDanglish on Nov 05, 2012, 15:13:03
Crappy fuck...  :o
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Nov 05, 2012, 15:19:58
Outstanding work my friend! I really like the rest of the bike as I've mentioned in many posts but I think this is your topper most.  I approve.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: JohnGoFast on Nov 05, 2012, 18:04:23
Shit damn shit, thats a nice looking tank and seat. I can't wait to see this on the BOTM banner.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: bradj on Nov 09, 2012, 07:08:39
I hope this helps
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: bradj on Nov 09, 2012, 07:24:30
And this is suzuki's daytona road race spec's
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: bradj on Nov 09, 2012, 07:26:13
Its hard to see ill photo copy and mail it to ya if you want bike looks great btw
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 09, 2012, 10:44:17
Thanks Brad, I can see the info no problem.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Pattheswede on Nov 09, 2012, 17:25:18
You gonna end up with a real good looking bike man!
Question, how thick alloy did you use building the gastank?
// Pat
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 10, 2012, 13:57:41
Pat, the alloy is 1.5mm thick.  I tried using 1mm and it was to thin.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Pattheswede on Nov 10, 2012, 15:25:37
OK ... I just found your other tread with the tank, really nice reading and a lot of info!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 15, 2012, 20:35:03
Got my rear lights done.  Not sure where or how to mount the licence plate yet.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Nov 16, 2012, 00:49:40
Two locations come to mind, first right at the break line (just past the shock mount) on the undertail, mount the plate bracket vertical.  This would keep the tail very clean looking.  Some States allow that, I've seen sportbikes that look illegal?  You could also easily mount a small light on the underside as well.  Second would be more conventional, the same angle as the undertail but opposite, down sloping almost as the end of a fender.  Top edge would start about 1.5" before the trailing edge of the tail again so a light could be mounted flush (like the turnsignals) but  pointed downward.  Aluminum plate, with large holes.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: BigRedButton on Nov 16, 2012, 04:38:27
How problematic would it be to mount it on the back of a stylish jacket?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 17, 2012, 16:06:59
Rear Brembo painted to match front Tokico's.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 1969Honda on Nov 17, 2012, 16:08:15
What about a plate mount off of the side of the swing arm? Maybe an angled vertical mount to match the angle of the frame tubes?  An updated side profile pic of the bike would help us all to see what there is to work with now ;)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 17, 2012, 18:00:06
I really don't like the licence plate mounted on the side, always looks like an afterthought to me (imho). 
Gary I drew a line using my all my paint skills on the pic below, is this what you were talking about?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Swagger on Nov 17, 2012, 22:53:01
I think a simple bracket hanging the plate off the tail, angled at say.....45* with a couple teeny tiny LEDs.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Nov 18, 2012, 12:17:48
   The second suggestion was off the tail end more conventinally (my personal choice) that sounds close to what Swagger also mentioned?  I don't care for the side mounts, It reminds me of a chopper?  Whatever you choose will be fine because it's already a cool bike.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Joon-yah on Nov 18, 2012, 13:26:34
Bikes coming together real nice man. I prefer an axle mount so it doesn't clash with the lines of the bike.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 1969Honda on Nov 18, 2012, 16:14:26
I'm with oldskool on not screwing with those beautiful lines, maybe you could just attach the plate flush to the underside of the tail unit?  Maybe install a few riv-nuts and keep it all flush....
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 19, 2012, 13:26:24
Is this what your talking about?  As for the side or axle mount I just can't get excited about that look.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: teazer on Nov 19, 2012, 15:31:26
That works.  Side mounts look a a terrible after thought where the builder couldn't work out how to do the job nicely. The argument for them is that a normal mount ruins teh lines, but sticking a plate on the side looks ghetto.

On this bike there appear to be two choices.  angle mount off the rear lower edge on the seat as shown or under the seat up against the frame rails.  Hidden under the middle of the seat but still visible from the rear. The plate is supposed to be at teh back so a mid mount might draw unwanted attention.

Go with the last paint mock up.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Swagger on Nov 19, 2012, 15:59:36
That's what I thought would be cleanest on this piece of art....you could even feature it with an attractive aluminum bracket so it doesn't look like a grudging afterthought which is what I usually get stuck with haha.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Joon-yah on Nov 19, 2012, 16:57:23
To each is his own,Honestly there is no place on a custom bike for a plate. Teazer, if that comment was towards me,you have no idea what type of a builder I am. If not you may want to think of how you word your comments. John,wherever you put it I know it will look as good as the rest of your work.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Nov 19, 2012, 18:04:05
JOhnu, your reply in post #425 is what I had in mind, that's exactly what I have on my cafe Honda CX.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Swagger on Nov 19, 2012, 19:03:07
@oldskool(sic): HAHAHAHA! You're right but we ALL KNOW what kind of builder Teazer is.
And side plates are one of the stupidest (I hesitate)"trends" in motorcycling, every tool with generic hipster skinny jeans, body odor and a CB350 puts on a side mounted plate right after the clubmans and mustache sticker.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Swagger on Nov 19, 2012, 19:03:30
@oldskool(sic): HAHAHAHA! You're right but we ALL KNOW what kind of builder Teazer is.
And side plates are one of the stupidest (I hesitate) "trends" in motorcycling, every tool with generic hipster skinny jeans, body odor and a CB350 puts on a side mounted plate right after the clubmans and mustache sticker.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: teazer on Nov 19, 2012, 19:26:34
To each is his own,Honestly there is no place on a custom bike for a plate. Teazer, if that comment was towards me,you have no idea what type of a builder I am. If not you may want to think of how you word your comments. John,wherever you put it I know it will look as good as the rest of your work.

Eh? Do I know you or your bikes or builds? 

I know a couple of people that use a version of the "OldSchool" type screen name and have no problem with them, so why would you think I'm attacking you.  You are inferring something that was never intended. :-) It's all cool.

There is nothing in my post aimed at any individual or group of individuals. I said that it looks ghetto - that's my opinion.  I don't like tacked on bits.  The irony is that back in the day or "Old School", we had our license/registration/number plates on the back of the bike.  It was the chopper guys in recent years that introduced the tack on side mounts and I don't like them.  What anyone else does on their build is up to them. My opinion is just that, an opinion.  No one is forced to agree or disagree.

I agree with you 100% that whatever John does we can expect it to be as well executed as the rest of this beautiful build.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Flying J on Nov 19, 2012, 19:45:13
i was thinking something along these lines.
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii181/randog13/blackrr003-1.jpg)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Joon-yah on Nov 19, 2012, 20:14:18
Teazer your post was similar to mine, and thats the only reason I took offense. But if you say it wasn't meant that way then I'm cool and i can appreciate that. Swagger correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Greta and Willow have axle mount plates? I am a fabricator by trade, so I hope you can understand why I might take offense, and I forget that not too many people know it.John I apologize for this going down on your thread.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Joon-yah on Nov 19, 2012, 20:35:58
I apologize Greta is a side mount not axle.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 19, 2012, 21:04:21
Teazer your post was similar to mine, and thats the only reason I took offense. But if you say it wasn't meant that way then I'm cool and i can appreciate that. Swagger correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Greta and Willow have axle mount plates? I am a fabricator by trade, so I hope you can understand why I might take offense, and I forget that not too many people know it.John I apologize for this going down on your thread.

No problem just one of the internet nuances let's just move on.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 1969Honda on Nov 20, 2012, 06:29:22
I was thinking something like this (green line) or #433.

(http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/r526/1969honda/lic2-Copy.jpg)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: EL Sammo on Nov 20, 2012, 08:49:15
This is fantastic! your'e doing some very nice work.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 20, 2012, 10:42:54
1969, I like your idea but.... because of the shallow angle the plate can barely be seen in that location.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: bradj on Nov 20, 2012, 11:03:50
i was thinking something along these lines.
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii181/randog13/blackrr003-1.jpg)
this is kinda the only way. Every body needs a tag so i can hardly see a reason to worrie about style tag are ugly end of story. a tag location is also a stupit reason to get pulled over.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Pattheswede on Nov 20, 2012, 17:47:54
Here is a solution i find pretty cool ...

From a CB 900 build, cut out in alloy


Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 21, 2012, 16:57:57
Thanks for all the suggestions but I think this will be the plate location in the pics below.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Pattheswede on Nov 21, 2012, 17:04:59
That looks absolutely OK!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Joon-yah on Nov 21, 2012, 17:37:02
That looks pretty good on there.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 1969Honda on Nov 21, 2012, 20:58:45
Looks like a good home!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: jpmobius on Nov 22, 2012, 08:45:03
Great build johnu!  Don't forget to check the clearance at full suspension compression.  Crunch!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 22, 2012, 17:07:13
Great build johnu!  Don't forget to check the clearance at full suspension compression.  Crunch!

Thanks.  If you look closely you can see I don't have the spring on the shock to check for such an issue.  So no crunch!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Pattheswede on Nov 23, 2012, 12:38:52
Is the shock filled with gas? Was it hard to take apart spring from shock for painting?
// Pat
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 23, 2012, 13:38:53
All you have to do is compress the shock spring then remove the locating collar, release the shock spring and thats it.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 26, 2012, 14:24:04
Well no progress but I think I have made a decision to build my own expansion chambers (which was my original plan).  I had almost talked myself into buying the Swarbrick kit but I don't think I can justify spending $650 for a kit.  I will probably try using the 2 stroke wizard software first as it seems pretty easy to use and it is cheap ($18!).  I think the trickiest part will be getting the tapered down pipe the correct shape (radius) to go under the frame.

I know I saw a website somewhere that advertised cutting out and rolling of cones but I don't remember what it was called has anyone else seen it?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: teazer on Nov 26, 2012, 14:41:08
Word to the wise,  That software is worth what you pay for it.   To be honest, I have not built an exhaust in metal and tested it, but the simulation software I use seems to suggest that the designs are far from the best.

It's probably better than just trying to copy an old set of pipes though.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: JustinLonghorn on Nov 26, 2012, 14:53:13
I have a PDF with chamber/port dims for the T500. It might be a damn good starting point. Let me know if you want a copy.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 26, 2012, 15:04:45
Word to the wise,  That software is worth what you pay for it.   To be honest, I have not built an exhaust in metal and tested it, but the simulation software I use seems to suggest that the designs are far from the best.

It's probably better than just trying to copy an old set of pipes though.

I agree, it is most likely not the best option.  My other option at this point is to get out my Gordon Jennings Two-Stroke Tuners handbook and calculate something from that.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 26, 2012, 15:05:56
I have a PDF with chamber/port dims for the T500. It might be a damn good starting point. Let me know if you want a copy.

If you could pm me a copy that would be great, can't have too much info!  Thanks.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Flying J on Nov 26, 2012, 16:38:08
http://www.coneeng.com/custom_fabrication.html
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: teazer on Nov 27, 2012, 00:14:52
@Johnu: Are the ports stock or is it a Zookie build and if so does he have a recommendation for you for pipes?  Jemco are the default pipes in the US and the tests we ran this time last year showed them to be pretty good on a triple. 

@Justine: can you PM/email me a copy of that too please.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 27, 2012, 10:57:05
@Johnu: Are the ports stock or is it a Zookie build and if so does he have a recommendation for you for pipes?  Jemco are the default pipes in the US and the tests we ran this time last year showed them to be pretty good on a triple. 

@Justine: can you PM/email me a copy of that too please.

Porting is Zookie's work he said to run Jemco or Swarbricks.  I am going to check Eric's dimensions against the ones Justin sent me to see if that's what he used.  My only issue with Jemco is that they are unlikely to fit my bike due to all the mods done to it.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 27, 2012, 11:36:17
http://www.coneeng.com/custom_fabrication.html
That's perfect, thanks.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: teazer on Nov 27, 2012, 12:52:07
The pdf file is really interesting but I wouldn't want to run those Daytona pipes on the street necessarily.  I would expect that Eric's porting is more moderate than the old Suzuki 72 race bikes, but maybe not.

If you wanted to copy a set of pipes, do you know someone with JEMCOs that you could copy the dimensions from and modify the pipes to suit or just get a set of Jemcos and tweak them as required. Based on what we've seen on the build, you have the skills to fab a set of pipes but do you really want to? :-)

My welding skills are well below par and I managed to weld a couple of cones, but it takes time.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 27, 2012, 13:51:51
Yes I was suprised when I saw the spec for the T500 race bike porting.  Those specs for the daytona pipe don't have the tapered down pipes which I would have expected .

I wish I knew someone with Jemco's as that would be ideal for me to copy them.  I can fab them no problem but as you say do I want to.... no I don't. 

I just found out from Jemco this morning that their pipes cost exactly the same as Swarbricks.  However Jemco's are completely assembled and Swarbricks aren't, Swarbricks have the aluminum manifold at the exhaust port with spring attachment (prefered) Jemco are just bolt on flanges like stock.  Still not sure I can make myself shell out $700 for pipes.

Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: teazer on Nov 27, 2012, 18:24:47
I have swarbricks on two race bikes and bought a set for an RD400 project I sold - I must have been in a better place financially back then ;-(     Great pipes and they came with tapered headers too.

Not cheap though.

Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 28, 2012, 14:53:19
Thinking about doing something like the pic below to hide the wiring that typically resides in the headlight.  Been trying to figure out what to do with the wires and connections for a while now so this could be a pretty good solutiuon.

I would build a unit from aluminum to tie in with the rest of the bike and still run two lights but down low similar to the pic.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: DreadRock on Nov 28, 2012, 18:00:24
What if you add a small boxes behind the front plate to keep the wiring in and clean looking ? Paint the back black to hides it even more !
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Joon-yah on Nov 28, 2012, 18:38:21
Thinking about doing something like the pic below to hide the wiring that typically resides in the headlight.  Been trying to figure out what to do with the wires and connections for a while now so this could be a pretty good solutiuon.

I would build a unit from aluminum to tie in with the rest of the bike and still run two lights but down low similar to the pic.
That would be sick,i think it would go with bike rather nicely.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Nov 28, 2012, 18:41:43
What if you add a small boxes behind the front plate to keep the wiring in and clean looking ? Paint the back black to hides it even more !

Yes the plan is to build a box behind the plate for all the wiring.  Hadn't thought about it being black though, sounds like a plan.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: teazer on Nov 29, 2012, 01:18:25
That is what I did on the Phat Trakka.  I made a box out of carbon fiber to sit between the fork legs and wiring connectors and relays sit in there and up front the race number plate is cut down slightly to fit around 2 small lights.  If I did it again I would use a single HID with angel eyes.

Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Dec 12, 2012, 14:40:54
Not much going on at the moment.  Made the box (to house all the connectors that would normally be in the headlight shell) to go behind the front plate and started the bracket to mount it to the forks.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Dec 13, 2012, 16:54:39
I decided to come back to this section from the dark side (specials forum).  A bit more action over here I think!
Here are my lights mounted, now need to get the front plate done.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Joon-yah on Dec 13, 2012, 16:59:08
looking killer man,nice work as always
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: MJPriceisright on Dec 13, 2012, 17:02:24
love those bars man, what are they?  and the front forks?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Dec 13, 2012, 17:19:16
Bars are Renthal "Fatbars" KTM bend with KTM mounts.  Forks are Kawi 636.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: neckyzips on Dec 13, 2012, 22:38:44
I'm in! Nice work! I cant wait to see the end result
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Dec 14, 2012, 21:16:21
I'm in! Nice work! I cant wait to see the end result

Thankyou, I am ready for the end, its taking way longer than I thought!  Stopped putting finish dates on it now as it never seems to get done.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: DreadRock on Dec 14, 2012, 22:10:02
 
Thankyou, I am ready for the end, its taking way longer than I thought!  Stopped putting finish dates on it now as it never seems to get done.
 
 Thought the same way and stop finishing dates after a year LOL Funny thing is as you get to the end of the build your thinking of what you can do better on the next one  ;D
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Dec 14, 2012, 23:18:37
Ha ha, I know the saying 90% done and 50% to go.  The difference between bolting on and painting vs. actually making the parts from scratch is night and day.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Dec 15, 2012, 19:28:32
Yes, well I am ready for the bolting on stage.  I can see the finished bike in my head, now I am ready for reality.  The pipes are the only time consuming part of the project left to build now. 

And yes I am already thinking of my next project!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: VonYinzer on Dec 15, 2012, 20:55:14
I'm in love with your motorcycle, and I don't care who knows it.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Dec 21, 2012, 16:12:27
Worked on the front plate today and I think this will be a good solution to hide all the electrical connections in the box I have behind the plate.  It looks humongus at the moment but I think it will look better when I get some pinstripes say 12mm in from the edge.  I now have to decide if I am going to use Dzus fasteners or round head cap screws to mount the plate.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 1969Honda on Dec 21, 2012, 19:20:39
This is looking great John! Pinstripes will definitely make it look smaller.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Flying J on Dec 23, 2012, 00:32:53
I feel like it needs more depth. It looks like you slapped a piece of scrap on there and drilled some holes in it. I know it is more complicated then that, but in comparison to the rest of the invredible work you have done to this bike it just doesnt fit. Just my honest feedback.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Flying J on Dec 23, 2012, 00:41:40
I just found this. Similar style
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-74TmyJrNgmA/UNEBCnviD7I/AAAAAAAAwcE/Z_gTljL0iRw/s1600/a.jpg)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Dec 23, 2012, 17:44:09
I feel like it needs more depth. It looks like you slapped a piece of scrap on there and drilled some holes in it. I know it is more complicated then that, but in comparison to the rest of the invredible work you have done to this bike it just doesnt fit. Just my honest feedback.

Honesty appreciated!

I am now thinking about going with just a single light anyway.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: RotaryDanglish on Dec 23, 2012, 18:16:03
IMO a over and under arrangement would look the buisness, although that would mean redoing the whole front..
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Dec 28, 2012, 13:39:17
Well not much progress, I got the filler neck and cap bolted to the tank and the rear shock is painted.  I seem to have lost the side stand somehow so I think I will just make my own lighter version.  I just need a picture of how the original looks (I still have the tab on the frame to mount it).

I am working on another idea for the front light/plate combo.

Once I get the exhausts done I should be ready to powder coat the frame, then I'll be in business!

Here are a couple of pics of where the bike is at right now:
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Dec 28, 2012, 18:17:31
John, looking good and you're almost there!  The side stands, I have made three so far, I use .75" diameter or square chromoly tubing.  strong and weighs half of the solid OEM unit.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: MJPriceisright on Dec 29, 2012, 10:22:10
I just found this. Similar style
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-74TmyJrNgmA/UNEBCnviD7I/AAAAAAAAwcE/Z_gTljL0iRw/s1600/a.jpg)

does anyone have any more info on this?  unreal bike
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Big-D on Dec 29, 2012, 11:01:12
Ahhh every time I look at your bike its effing more killer!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: RotaryDanglish on Dec 29, 2012, 15:30:35
does anyone have any more info on this?  unreal bike

Bottpower XR1 - Very real ;)

http://bottpower.com/eng/
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: teazer on Dec 29, 2012, 22:25:49
I wish I could remember where I saw a kick ass front plate recently.  It had 1/2" (?) slots cut in it that gave it an almost Art Deco look. Now I think about it, I'd be happy if I could remember my name and how I got here. :-)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Jan 17, 2013, 19:41:40
I need to get cracking and get this bike finished.  My BSA Goldstar is arriving from England next week so I will be somewhat distracted.  I did take the tank in to get the mounting plate for the petcock TiG welded on, not possible to weld 0.250" flat stock to the 0.050" tank bottom with oxy-acetylene!

Pic of the Beezer below.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: 50gary on Jan 18, 2013, 00:21:17
Whoa, very nice.  Classic,  but yeah, get on the Zuzukee!
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Jan 24, 2013, 15:08:12
Well the tank is finally finished (aside from polishing), I got the underside brackets welded on and the petcock installed.

Next job are the exhausts.  Richard (Teazer) has designed some pipes to match my engine spec now I just have to figure out the routing for them.  I will be sending the cones out to be lazer cut and rolled then I will just have the assembly to do.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Joon-yah on Jan 24, 2013, 16:00:29
Thats coming along very nicely,killer work. Can't wait to see it polished.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Jan 25, 2013, 16:53:47
I'm really happy with how the junction between the tank and seat came out. 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: MJPriceisright on Jan 25, 2013, 17:31:30
I'm really happy with how the junction between the tank and seat came out.


UMMM YEAH!! lol thats becuase its a perfect fit!  nice work man.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Swagger on Jan 25, 2013, 17:52:21
Nice work!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: Pattheswede on Jan 26, 2013, 08:43:09
Well, thats a perfect fit!
Looking really nice... will be so cool when polished!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: guernz on Jan 26, 2013, 09:36:51
I can't believe I've never checked out this build. Awesome fab work.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: bradj on Jan 26, 2013, 23:14:54
Leave that finish alone its perfect shine is for show bikes
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Jan 27, 2013, 00:16:20
Brad, only a part of the tank and seat will be polished the rest will be scotchbrite finish.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: fade2nada on Jan 28, 2013, 02:18:19
OK after spending the last 2 days reading all 51 pages all I can say is WOW! Thoroughly impressed. I have gained a lot of knowledge and insight from this and I will utilize it toward the upgrade of my own T500. This is the reason I joined this site. Great work!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: neckyzips on Jan 28, 2013, 09:45:26
great work! and its put me on the look out for one!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Feb 06, 2013, 23:17:39
Thanks for the kind words.  Finally made some progress!  Got the exhaust stubs made so I am ready start on the pipes.  Also ordered a set of engine case polished stainless cap head bolts from ebay for $26, can't beat that.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: bradj on Feb 06, 2013, 23:42:18
Nice
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: JohnGoFast on Feb 07, 2013, 09:50:14
Hell yes, good job man, those are killer.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: JustinLonghorn on Feb 07, 2013, 09:53:38
I am a fan, sir.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: DreadRock on Feb 07, 2013, 10:31:21
Very nice work sir !
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project
Post by: johnu on Feb 07, 2013, 21:16:49
Got started on the down pipes today. 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 08, 2013, 17:28:14
More progress on the down pipes.  Hard to see in the pics but there are two different curves and a twist in this section.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: JohnGoFast on Feb 08, 2013, 17:56:09
This is making me all warm and fuzzy.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: mikewerx on Feb 08, 2013, 17:58:02
More progress on the down pipes.  Hard to see in the pics but there are two different curves and a twist in this section.

Is this easier then juts bending the pipes, or is it a look thing?  Cause it looks bad assed
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 08, 2013, 19:31:54
Not easier but I don't have access to a mandrel tube bender, plus from this point on the rest of the sections will be cones.  Personally I agree it looks wicked made up in sections ;)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: bradj on Feb 08, 2013, 19:42:21
Is this easier then juts bending the pipes, or is it a look thing?  Cause it looks bad assed
the taper on the pipe increases just alittle with each ring
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: mikewerx on Feb 08, 2013, 19:46:23
the taper on the pipe increases just alittle with each ring

Makes sense, and does look bad assed.  Wish I had the skills to get 'r done.  I'm only a mig guy
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: sxecafe on Feb 08, 2013, 19:53:21
Nice work on the pipes! Like the dzus clips on the seat as well.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: The_Beave on Feb 09, 2013, 11:02:17
I like where this header is going!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: dcracing on Feb 09, 2013, 20:36:55
Makes sense, and does look bad assed.  Wish I had the skills to get 'r done.  I'm only a mig guy

Why not give it a try? I migged my first pipes, and it looks like those headers are mig tacked. BTW, unless I'm mistaken those sectioned headers are cut from straight pipe, not tapered.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: mikewerx on Feb 09, 2013, 23:05:28
Sure, I'm down to try anything, twice.  What wall thickness are those pipes?  Didn't want to get something too thin that I'll blow right through...
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: Joon-yah on Feb 10, 2013, 15:02:27
Looking awesome,I built the pipes on my cm the same way.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 10, 2013, 17:45:55
Why not give it a try? I migged my first pipes, and it looks like those headers are mig tacked. BTW, unless I'm mistaken those sectioned headers are cut from straight pipe, not tapered.
You are correct that the work I have done so far is parallel pipe but from this point on it will all be cones.  The pipe is 18ga wall thickness and tacked with mig.  I will be welding the pipes up with oxy/acetelyne though. The cones will all be made from 22ga but all the tacking will be done with mig.  Imho mig welded pipes look like crap but that's not to say they wouldn't be functional.  If I could choose I would would be tig welding the pipes but I don't have access to tig at this time.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: mikewerx on Feb 10, 2013, 17:55:29
Cool to know, then I could mig tack everything, then bring them to a buddy to finish with tig.  Thx!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 10, 2013, 17:59:22
Cool to know, then I could mig tack everything, then bring them to a buddy to finish with tig.  Thx!
Yes, I actually think mig is the easiest way to get it all tacked together.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: dcracing on Feb 10, 2013, 18:20:56
Before you tack everything together with plans to get someone else to tig the seams ask them. Tig welding over mig tacks doesn't look good (the tig doesn't blend with the mig)  and most welders don't want to do it
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 10, 2013, 18:42:46
You are correct.  I only put two tacks on each section with the mig to hold everything in place then you can do the rest whichever way you want to ie; tack it with tig then grind out your original two mig tacks then go from there.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: dcracing on Feb 10, 2013, 19:10:54
Curious as to why you chose to do parallel wall headers? Tapered head pipes have long been known to provide better performance.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 10, 2013, 19:53:29
Curious as to why you chose to do parallel wall headers? Tapered head pipes have long been known to provide better performance.
I did not design the pipes so I can't answer that question.  Someone else from this site did that using some fancy software that is way beyond my knowledge level.  The actual part that is parallel is only 190mm long.  Also the specs for the pipe are still being reviewed so things could change. 

Nice to have another two stroke expert taking an interest in my build.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: zooke581 on Feb 10, 2013, 22:11:22
This is looking great, John.  I was also wondering about the taper on the head pipes but T knows what he is doing.  Great to see you going forward with the project.  I know how time changes our completition perception.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 10, 2013, 22:28:32
Good to see you back on here Eric. Richard went through several different designs with the pipes, I am confident he came up with the best option although he is now reviewing the design due a possible oversight.  I look forward to testing out the port work you did for me.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: teazer on Feb 11, 2013, 19:49:57
Curious as to why you chose to do parallel wall headers? Tapered head pipes have long been known to provide better performance.

Define "Better". :-)  we are talking mild mannered Clark Kent rather than hypersonic Superman in terms of powerband. Tapered headers tend to make for a lot more top end and less low down. We can easily generate an additional 10HP at the top end, but kill everything at normal street revs on this classic long stroke motor.  That's why it has parallel headers - at this point....
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: bradj on Feb 11, 2013, 21:48:52
Tig welds over mig tacks look fine when i do it ;) looks good man keep it up
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: dcracing on Feb 12, 2013, 11:05:48
Tapered headers tend to make for a lot more top end and less low down.

Really?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: teazer on Feb 12, 2013, 13:26:35
You have data to the contrary?  I'd love to talk to you about that.  I've heard all sorts of cliams and comments from people that know and people that think they know that suggest that tapered headers work well at low revs, but I haven't seen one so far.

That doesn't mean they don't exist, but I haven't had one that did.  Maybe that's because the only time it's typically worth the fab effort is on a high end (revs) pipe and maybe it's other dimensions that are causing the loss of low end.  I'm always learning and ready to hear what other have learned.
 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: dcracing on Feb 12, 2013, 13:47:43
I know through experience that a longer header produces better low and mid range power at the expense of some top end.While  I cannot prove it I believe that the tapered header allows a smoother transition from head pipe to divergent cone which allows for a smoother power transition when the motor comes on the pipe. I build relatively fat pipes and without a slightly tapered header the transition to divergent cone would be too sudden and would result in either a too steep a divergent cone angle or too much total length.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: teazer on Feb 12, 2013, 14:15:43
That makes sense to me and I agree that with a large divergent cone angle, it's easier to use a tapered header.  I just can't get the simulation software to support it though. There appears to be a fine line where sonics and gas flow cross lines.  For example less than a certain angle of change the pulses are weak and above a certain point, wave separation and poor flow seem to hget in the way. 

Remember when 4 stroke tuners went for 3 to 5 angle and then tried full radius seats? As I recall it, full radius turned out (all puns intended) to not flow as well as the sharp angles.  I didn't follow up on that to see if anyone worked out why air likes changes in direction,  but it's analogous to this situation I believe.   That's all probably past my pay grade though.

On a kart motor I found that when you get deep into the over rev zone, the best pipe appears to be one that has many different cones with small changes in angle form one to another - almost a continuous curve.  When I tried the same approach on lower rev motors, results were disappointing - probably because the pulses have insufficient energy for that to be a factor. What that did was to stretch the curve way out at the right after peak power which is where these guys are going.  Next step is to simulate teh pipe temperature effect of leaning out the carb as they go down the straight.  That is having an effect on where that over rev reaches.

And that's where I'm at right now.  For say an RD motor peaking at 10-10.5 tapered headers and fat pipes appear to work nicely.  On a street RD or GT500 with a peak at say 8500 (RD) or less (GT) there appear to be advantages to parallel headers and simple designs.

Of course a long parallel header has surface drag that acts almost like a smaller pipe as it goes down the length, and a shallow taper acts to balance that out to "act" more like straight pipe at high revs where this stuff matters most. At least that's how it looks at the moment. 

On John's pipe I started with half a dozen well documented pipes and tried them with his port dimensions and a few assumptions.  Then I generated a few designs in Bimotion and using the Blair algorithms, and tested those and then started to develop from there - trying different lengths and diameters on different parts of the system.  There is surely more in there to be extracted, but there's only so many hours in the day.....
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 12, 2013, 14:26:06
I like this discussion, learning all the time.  Keep it up!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: bradj on Feb 12, 2013, 14:38:35
 :( >:( science
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: dcracing on Feb 12, 2013, 19:53:00
That makes sense to me and I agree that with a large divergent cone angle, it's easier to use a tapered header.  I just can't get the simulation software to support it though. There appears to be a fine line where sonics and gas flow cross lines.  For example less than a certain angle of change the pulses are weak and above a certain point, wave separation and poor flow seem to hget in the way. 

Remember when 4 stroke tuners went for 3 to 5 angle and then tried full radius seats? As I recall it, full radius turned out (all puns intended) to not flow as well as the sharp angles.  I didn't follow up on that to see if anyone worked out why air likes changes in direction,  but it's analogous to this situation I believe.   That's all probably past my pay grade though.

That's what I was insinuating in another thread where I discussed re-shaping an R5 head. In some cases air flow (charge in a combustion chamber) seems to like a hard transition rather than a radius. Not always the case as I'm sure you know, knife edges are not good in inlets etc. My belief is that hard radius' are good where the air flow approaches from the side and not good when the flow approaches directly at the knife edge if that makes sense.

[/quote]
On a kart motor I found that when you get deep into the over rev zone, the best pipe appears to be one that has many different cones with small changes in angle form one to another - almost a continuous curve.  When I tried the same approach on lower rev motors, results were disappointing - probably because the pulses have insufficient energy for that to be a factor. What that did was to stretch the curve way out at the right after peak power which is where these guys are going.  Next step is to simulate teh pipe temperature effect of leaning out the carb as they go down the straight.  That is having an effect on where that over rev reaches.[/quote]
I haven't done much with low rev motors but I imagine when designing an exhaust for a long exhaust duration + low rev motor, it would be tough to find room for a long enough pipe. If you have the ability to change curves you might be able to move power around a bit through judicious use of advance

[/quote]

And that's where I'm at right now.  For say an RD motor peaking at 10-10.5 tapered headers and fat pipes appear to work nicely.  On a street RD or GT500 with a peak at say 8500 (RD) or less (GT) there appear to be advantages to parallel headers and simple designs. [/quote]


I find it very difficult to sim transfer ports, probably because I haven't enough experience with the program, but I *believe* you'll find that in real world applications RDs (air cooleds) don't like fat pipes because they don't have the transfer volume to support a large volume pipe. Stand to be corrected there though

[/quote]

Of course a long parallel header has surface drag that acts almost like a smaller pipe as it goes down the length, and a shallow taper acts to balance that out to "act" more like straight pipe at high revs where this stuff matters most. At least that's how it looks at the moment. 

[/quote]

This is where it started I guess. My opinion is that a parallel wall header would never be superior. Again I stand to be corrected. I look at it like this, if I designed a hypothetical pipe off the top of my head for 190* duration and 9500 rpm I'd probably be looking at a TL of somewhere around 850mm, give or take. Of this maybe 270mm or so will be header. That much parallel wall will have a significant effect (flow resistance) on the movement of the gasses in both directions which can fairly easily be mitigated with the construction of a tapered head pipe I also design for minimum taper changes within the sections of the divergent cone, less than 3* difference per section ideally. Were I to run a parallel wall to the divergent cone I'd have a severe change of angle there, much greater than my chosen maximum. Obviously with a short header the parallel vs tapered debate would not be a factor for me, but short header= higher peak=less low and mid=not happy me

[/quote]

On John's pipe I started with half a dozen well documented pipes and tried them with his port dimensions and a few assumptions.  Then I generated a few designs in Bimotion and using the Blair algorithms, and tested those and then started to develop from there - trying different lengths and diameters on different parts of the system.  There is surely more in there to be extracted, but there's only so many hours in the day.....
[/quote]
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: bradj on Feb 12, 2013, 20:01:10
Blinded me with science
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 13, 2013, 11:33:54
This is great, helping me understand the 2stroke pipe (to a small degree anyway) ::)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: teazer on Feb 13, 2013, 17:24:43
Heads are a whole other situation.  In a squish head we want maximum turbulence with a respectable MSV.  As the squished gases pass the sharp edge into the bowl it creates turbulence that helps atomization and that's what we are after.

Knife edges are another issue again.  Gas flow separates as it passes a knife edge, where it flows around a bullet nose. That's for example why people are often told not to knife edge the transfer port divider.

When I say low rev motor, were are talking GT's.  A GT has a 64mm stroke so with a peak mean piston velocity of say 3500, that equates to 8500 revs max.  So if we are looking for a nice meaty powerband, we want to focus on the 6-7k are rather than looking for peak power at 8500 and ignoring losses lower down.

That's what I mean by low revs.  A kart motor by comparison is living between say 11,000 and 14,000 and they used to go much higher than that.

Header length is important up to a point, but what dictates tuned speed are gas temperature, exhaust duration and overall length.  With the same pipe, if we want to move power up or down the rev range, the belly section is the place to do it. Bimotion calls for a header length of 7 to 9 times the exhaust port diameter.  That works out to roughly 300 - 400 mm.  A little less is OK but much longer and I'd expect drag to start to rise.

With section changes there are a number of factors at play.  Larger angles create stronger pulses, but over a narrower rev range. Larger angles also tend to result in flow separation which in a 100-120mm pipe is really not too much of an issue, but could be a problem at the tail pipe entry where a venturi is a better way to merge. Changes in angle are usually limited to around 3-3.5 degrees in the divergent cones and 12 degrees or more in the baffle cone.

The thing I try to keep in mind is that almost any pipe will flow enough gas.  What I need to focus on are the sound (pressure) waves moving up and down the pipe.  Pressure waves are traveling at the speed of sound where the gas is moving at less than half that speed most of the time. Gas speed changes with engine speed but pressure waves change only with temperature. There is some reversion of the actual gas, but mainly it's about the pressure waves which often travel in the opposite direction to the gas.

Let's say we want to change our existing design to something shorter for more top end.  We might use the same pipe with a smaller tailpipe to try to push temperatures up, or we could lean it out at the top end or retard the ignition to get more heat into the pipe.  More advance at lower revs (if the motor can take it) and less at the top end might be enough to stretch a powerband.

Or we go with a shorter pipe.  That means a shorter belly and that's not practical, so we have to increase the cone angles which makes for a larger diameter belly or a longer one of the same diameter - or some mix of both.  If we keep the same belly diameter and go with larger included angles, that allows us to shorten the whole pipe. 

If we got it right, power will go up at the top end and we will lose in the mid range.

You are right to focus on transfer ports. A GT has insufficient transfer area. At a target of say 8bar BMEP at say 7750 rpm, we have enough exhaust area to support 70 crank HP but only enough transfer area theoretically to support 56 crank HP.  As revs go up, that situation gets worse, so we need to keep revs down and to make the exhaust work better to empty the cylinder and pull gas up through the transfers.  At 7500 transfers gases flow nicely but at 8000 gas velocity drops, the temperature peak from exhaust rises by over 400 degrees in the top of the transfer port compared to the 7500 rpm effect.  The same happens with transfer port gas velocity and pressure. At 7500 works like a charm, at 8000, not so much.  Looking at the pressure, temperature and velocity traces at both engine speeds it's clear that the transfers are in crisis at 8000 and the exhaust is out of synch.

For a race motor with good CR 6 speed trans, the package of ports and pipe may well be very different. That's phase 2 :-)

In the real world though, all we can do is to try something and see if it works.  If it does, great and if not, well it's back to the drawing board.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 13, 2013, 23:22:06
Richard, looking forward to seeing how the pipes work out.  Appreciate the knowledge you are sharing here with us.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: bradj on Feb 13, 2013, 23:25:00
Plus 1
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: teazer on Feb 14, 2013, 01:03:30
You guys do realize that I make this stuff up on the fly don't you?  :-)   That's not entirely true,  but often a questions comes up that I have to go and do some more research and analysis to work out why things are the way they are. 

In most old bikes there's a shortage of transfer port time area and raising the ports doesn't always work.  Late model RD400Fs for example have wider transfers than early models and that's good.  Any modern two stroke has transfer ports all around - check out a CPI Cheetah and compare the transfer area to say a stock RZ or and RD350 and you'll see what I mean. 

On an RD350 the smaller auxiliary boost ports are 13mm wide. On a late RD400 they are 18mm wide which is close to a TZ350 dimension. It's all relative and it all changes.

Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: dcracing on Feb 14, 2013, 11:25:25
That's all good stuff, thanks for sharing. We're on the same page with much of what you say, I think you just do a better job of explaining yourself than I  ;D

Everyone has their own way of looking at things of course. For example you mention Bimotion's multiplier for header length which is relative to exhaust port size. I may use that for a starting point but always make sure I use a header length of about 1/3 TL. Sort of a combination of Blair and some other theories or rules of thumb I've picked up over the years talking to people and reading. Different strokes as they say.

Gas flow is funny. Should be simple but it's the opposite. I know that when I'm working on porting or a head I try to think like the gas LOL, and whatever the theories say if it doesn't look right to me I can't make my grinder do it so it looks wrong. Of course there's a difference between flow in a head and in a transfer or intake, I just try to think how the gas will react. In the head the gas  being squished and pushed very fast toward the transition and the flow seems to work better with no radius while in an intake where the flow in parallel to the divider a rounded edge (radius) is superior. Obvious I suppose, it's just the kind of thing I think about,

I've never simulated a parallel wall header. Reading and talking to people I've never seen the need to go down that road, and manufacturers stopped selling them stock a long time ago. Maybe I'll design and sim a set for fun. It would make pipe building easier  :o
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 14, 2013, 11:34:19
You guys do realize that I make this stuff up on the fly don't you?  :-)   That's not entirely true,  but often a questions comes up that I have to go and do some more research and analysis to work out why things are the way they are. 

In most old bikes there's a shortage of transfer port time area and raising the ports doesn't always work.  Late model RD400Fs for example have wider transfers than early models and that's good.  Any modern two stroke has transfer ports all around - check out a CPI Cheetah and compare the transfer area to say a stock RZ or and RD350 and you'll see what I mean. 

On an RD350 the smaller auxiliary boost ports are 13mm wide. On a late RD400 they are 18mm wide which is close to a TZ350 dimension. It's all relative and it all changes.



We know your making it up as you go along(: Just kidding.

I used to race Rotax engines and I remember the porting is crazy compared to my GT500.  Eventually I'll get some spare barrels for the Suzi then do some experimenting with porting, maybe I'll just get a complete motor and see how far we can take it but.... I'm getting ahead of myself here!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: teazer on Feb 14, 2013, 13:23:32
These are all 125cc per cylinder

(http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h364/tz375/250twins_sml.jpg)

They have more port area than a GT500/750 and all make more power.  An RS125 makes around 48, the TZ250 is over 80 and that RS250 Aprilia made 65 and it's a street bike slightly modified.  If we had the same technology in say a 500 4 cylinder we'd have a 190HP street bike.  But we don't :-(

How about a 440 Polaris which makes about 120 hp from 440cc?  We can learn a lot from those motors and can see what the limits are in our oldies.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: teazer on Feb 14, 2013, 13:29:59
Here's NASA's explanation

(http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/Images/wdgflow.jpg)

In simple terms, air striking a rounded object flows around it , but when it encounters a sharp edge it breaks into a wedge with little flow inside the pressure wave so it's flows less than around a blunted face. 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: MJPriceisright on Feb 14, 2013, 16:00:33
my head hurts trying to follow you teazer.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: teazer on Feb 14, 2013, 17:58:02
The NASA picture was a joke.  It's real and it came from their web site but seriously....... It did happen to be the best picture I could find in 30 seconds or less, that illustrates why a knife edge is not good in an inlet port and yet people still do it.

The other stuff has taken me a while to process and I'm nowhere close to some of the guys that really understand the finer points. There are lots of smart people around and I like to try to learn.  If I sat in the same room, they would be bored and my brain would likely explode.  We all learn at our own pace.

When I tuned my first two stroke Villiers motor, Jennings hadn't written his book, Yamaha were making pianos and .  well you get the picture.  We had "Tuning for speed" and "Speed and How to Obtain it" or whatever the actual tiles were and that was it.  Porting was done with a file.  Things have come a long way and I'm just trying to catch up.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 14, 2013, 18:48:56
Richard, I used to race Villiers 9e engines (highly modified) in karts they were 210cc.  We did a reverse barrel on those engines.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: teazer on Feb 15, 2013, 01:34:39
I once drove a kart with a 9E motor and it was insane (or I was !).  That was so long ago I'd forgotten about it. I'm not sure I remember the whole story but it was nuts.  Alpha crank and rod and all that stuff that I barely remember.  My brain has worked hard to bury that memory and there it is back on the surface again.....
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 15, 2013, 11:39:41
I once drove a kart with a 9E motor and it was insane (or I was !).  That was so long ago I'd forgotten about it. I'm not sure I remember the whole story but it was nuts.  Alpha crank and rod and all that stuff that I barely remember.  My brain has worked hard to bury that memory and there it is back on the surface again.....

Haha, yes karts are insane.  Yes, alpha crank and motoplat ignition.  If you think the villiers kart is insane try a 250 inline twin Rotax!!!  I remember lapping Silverstone quicker than the GP bikes due to the high corner speed.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 15, 2013, 20:51:04
Well I got the pipe mocked up with cardboard finally.  Here are the results.  Very tricky fitting the pipe in due to the tuned length but I think it looks pretty good as it is.  I don't want the silencer to protrude to much so I might have to go with some shorty's.

Any input on the routing or just the orientation of any parts of the pipe welcomed.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: zooke581 on Feb 15, 2013, 21:27:56
You might try kicking out the header out to bring the dwell section under the bike more.

(http://sundialmotosports.com/581_2007.JPG)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: bradj on Feb 15, 2013, 23:42:40
Are you doing a 2 into 1 pipe. or are my eyes messing with me
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 16, 2013, 13:38:32
Eric, nice bike I assume that's you?  here's a pic from the front, my headers do kick in a little.

Brad, not 2 into 1, look at the front pic.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: zooke581 on Feb 16, 2013, 21:09:12
Kicking in will have them closer to the front tire and not allow to much forward movement to get the dwell section under the frame.  Kicking them slightly out will help bring that section forward and under the bike and allowing the front tire more clearance.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: zooke581 on Feb 16, 2013, 21:10:26
Oh yes, that is me on my bike at Mid-Ohio.  Those are Jemco, (Jerry Klawitter) style racing pipes.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: zooke581 on Feb 16, 2013, 21:11:36
Try swapping sides on the headers.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 18, 2013, 13:06:19
Try swapping sides on the headers.

I will give that another try, that was how I had them originally!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 18, 2013, 13:10:48
Oh yes, that is me on my bike at Mid-Ohio.  Those are Jemco, (Jerry Klawitter) style racing pipes.


Nice!  I would have liked to have bought either the Jemco's or Swarbrick pipes but couldn't justify the expense, more than I paid for the original bike.
Now I will have the satisfaction of making my own pipes (with a lot of help from Teazer) and they are totally custom.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 19, 2013, 17:25:10
After a little bit of tweaking this is the pipes I am going be building.  I moved the body of the pipe more underneath the engine and I tweaked the header slightly.  I sinched the front end down with tiedowns to compress the fork to it's max and there is about 20mm of clearance to the tyre which should be ample.  I just have to modify the last cone as it should have a 28mm dia oulet instead of 34mm which is what is on there now.

Now comes the fun part of making it out of sheet metal.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: Flying J on Feb 19, 2013, 20:00:21
Nice lathe!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: zooke581 on Feb 19, 2013, 23:29:15
The one thing I am concerned about is with your riding style that you will deck the outter edge of the dwell section under hard cornering or a hard slide of the rear.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: 50gary on Feb 20, 2013, 09:44:26
John, the pipe patterns are looking good.  I have little knowledge about the formula for performance chambers but I do wonder about the large diameter section under the footpeg?  I'd do a thorough ground clearance check.  I'm thinking along the  lines of Zooke here.  22 guage, wow that's pretty thin!  Keep up the great work, I always read your updates.
  Cheers, 50gary
 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: JohnGoFast on Feb 20, 2013, 09:50:15
It looks damn perfect to me, I can't wait to see this bike complete!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 20, 2013, 12:17:55
Ok guys I have the same concern regarding the ground clearance but it doesn't look as bad in real life as it does in the pics.  Today I am going to draw it up in autocad and check the lean angle with the suspension fully compressed.  Also will do the real world in the garage lean angle test with the suspension compressed as much as possible.
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: Walms on Feb 20, 2013, 12:30:18
I was about to say that you can use ratchet straps to compress the suspension and just lean it over.
Every rider is different but for me, if you can lean it over 45 deg. With the suspension compressed, you should be good to go.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 21, 2013, 12:04:51
Did the ratchet straps to compress the suspension and all is well with the lean angle/ground clearance test.  Can go way over 45*, tyre was on its edge before the exhaust touches so no worries there.

Now it's time to start cutting out some sheet metal, going to try the tin snip route first if that doesn't work out well I'll have to splash out and get the parts laser cut.
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: Walms on Feb 21, 2013, 12:52:15
I did a couple of cones by hand for Teaser and to be honest, it was a real pita! (Not his fault) I had to make a few before i was satisfied with something to send him. It ended up being much more difficult than I imagined to minimize laps and gaps, as I'm used to getting pieces from the laser cutter that are perfect and when welding 22 ga. that is a good thing!
 Mind you, finding a laser cutter that will do work for a reasonable amount might prove as difficult to find as bridging the gaps on 22 ga. Sheet metal. :)

The challenge on a cone is you only get one chance to approach that theoretical line, it's not like you can touch it to a belt sander after it is rolled because making it shorter is only going to make it worse for mating it to the next cone.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: teazer on Feb 21, 2013, 17:36:40
And to make matters worse, I sent the wrong dimensions for one of the cones and ended up making the right one in house.  How difficult can it be to cut a cone, roll it (without slip rolls) and weld it?  That was tongue in cheek BTW.

Man, that was a PIA to get one cone right.  And to Walms other point, if it's too short it will not fit the next cone and if it's not 100% round the whole thing spirals out of control. 

I have a new admiration for people who make great looking exhausts.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: dcracing on Feb 21, 2013, 21:06:35
I haven't made lots of pipes but the ones I've done have been hand cut from 22ga. I'm far from a great welder and every mistake is magnified when there is even a tiny gap. Next ones will be laser cut for sure.

About 3 hours to cut roll and weld these
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f224/cookie1965/photo4_zps5a624d24.jpg)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 21, 2013, 21:25:10
Well I guess there is a trend going here, get your cones laser cut and rolled at a fab shop ;D  I will give it a bit of a go though seeing as I have half a sheet of 22ga here.  Appreciate all of the input.

Couldn't resist, I had to weld up the parallel part of my down pipe.  I haven't done any gas welding or brazing (aside from on alloy) for years, I think I need a bit more practice.

Title: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: Walms on Feb 21, 2013, 21:53:15
Looks great to me! :)
You could roll them yourself with a cheap slip roll from harbor freight but it helps to have mandrels to finish them off. If you have a buddy with a wood lathe though, you can make some pretty cheap that way.
I'm just making the assumption that if you go through the process once, you'll end up doing it a few times. Every fella should have a few sets of pipes hanging in the rafters eh... ;)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: dcracing on Feb 21, 2013, 22:29:01
This stuff works pretty good
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f224/cookie1965/photo.jpg)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 22, 2013, 00:18:40
Think I will go with the harbor freight slip roll and just go for it :D  I think Teazer has some ideas for more extreme porting for my MK2 motor so definitely will have spare pipes to hang in the garage!

Nice set of mandrels you have there dc, I have a lathe so I guess I'll make up some of my own.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: teazer on Feb 22, 2013, 01:11:57
Those mandrels are so necessary when it comes to making sure that both ends of each section are perfectly round.  Check out the You Tube video from Jim Lomas to see how they make pipes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-6HQvguUu0

Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 22, 2013, 13:55:24
Thanks Richard, that's a cool video.  I think I can do a half decent job of the pipes.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: DreadRock on Feb 22, 2013, 14:41:16
Wow that's all I can say about that video !
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 22, 2013, 19:26:13
And the 2nd down pipe welded.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: Joon-yah on Feb 24, 2013, 13:00:00
Nice work on the gas welding, I'm a big fan of doing it old school.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 25, 2013, 11:01:33
Nice work on the gas welding, I'm a big fan of doing it old school.

Haha, yes I imagine you are!  Gas and mig are all I have available to me at the moment so it's mig for tacking and gas for welding.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 25, 2013, 17:46:48
Got the header sections cut out, got to buy myself a small slip roll now.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: Flying J on Feb 25, 2013, 18:14:52
How do you come up with the template for the sheet metal? Is it a program?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 25, 2013, 19:07:01
How do you come up with the template for the sheet metal? Is it a program?

Well you can get software to develop the cones out, I tried downloading some free cone development software last week and it messed up my computer!  So I just developed the cones out old school style using the radial line method but I did do it in autocad not on the drawing board.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: 50gary on Feb 25, 2013, 22:50:04
John, I have a simple question.  Do you plan to tac weld the entire chamber to fit it to the bike and then finish weld it?  I have a single expansion chamber coming up and I want to tac it to fit the routing and then carefully mark the segments and cut the tac(s) apart.  Lastly, weld each segment and as I go grinding smooth the inside of the welded seam then weld on the next segment until the end.  I will also ceramic coat the inside as well as the outside.  I think the coating for heat retention is even more beneficial in two strokes vs. four stroke systems.  Am I being too anal?
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 25, 2013, 23:01:53
Gary, no I won't be tacking the entire pipe together then welding it.  If you do it that way there is a good chance that with distortion the pipe won't fit when the welding is finished.  I plan to build the pipe in 4 sections then weld them and they can be dressed easily as it is still possible to fit them over a dolly.  Then I'll tack and weld the 4 sections together.

I don't really have much insight regarding the ceramic coating, Teazer would most likely know about it though.
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: Walms on Feb 25, 2013, 23:27:11
If it creates a hotter pipe, it effectively shortens the tuned length.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: 50gary on Feb 25, 2013, 23:34:30
Thanks, I've never built a two stroke pipe before.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 26, 2013, 20:40:44
Ok I got all of the sheet metal cut out today for both pipes using tin snips.  It went pretty well, a little bit of filing after cutting they are really close to the templates.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: LaynDoor on Feb 26, 2013, 20:57:22
Ugh, I would love to weld those up with my new airline torch... looks like a fun project... nice job cutting out the sheet... good thinking on welding them up as sub assemblies.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 26, 2013, 21:04:41
Ugh, I would love to weld those up with my new airline torch... looks like a fun project... nice job cutting out the sheet... good thinking on welding them up as sub assemblies.

I would like you to weld them up with your new torch, haha.  I only have the oxy/acetylene available, no tig ):  I will still enjoy doing it though, this is one of the more enjoyable parts of the the whole build.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: teazer on Feb 26, 2013, 21:21:47
Ceramic coating is expensive and the effect is marginal at best - but they look good. I'm a fan of rattle cans. Cheap and cheerful - or use mop n glow if that look appeals to you.

Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: Rich Ard on Feb 26, 2013, 21:55:57
Share any pics you please of the weld up - this part is fascinating to me.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: jpmobius on Feb 26, 2013, 22:24:30
+1!

about a million years ago a friend and I built some headers for a small block Ford (in a Datsun roadster!).  Couldn't afford a TIG machine.  Man, we got GOOD at gas welding! Unfortunately, not so much 'till we were almost done! Been contemplating revisiting the experience on my own T-500, so a vicarious prevue is appreciated!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: bradj on Feb 26, 2013, 23:25:56
You should send me that pile of numbered patterns ill "file" them for ya
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 27, 2013, 10:54:39
You should send me that pile of numbered patterns ill "file" them for ya

No doubt you would(:  When are you starting pipes for your RD?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: dcracing on Feb 27, 2013, 11:07:22
A slip roll, pair of vice grips, mandrel and plastic mallet and you're on your way. That's a whole bunch of welding there.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: bradj on Feb 27, 2013, 11:35:57
No doubt you would(:  When are you starting pipes for your RD?
iguess im gonna run my old pipes with new engine work and get a base line for where it need to be better
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 28, 2013, 19:59:01
It's a start, I got five of the sections formed and welded.  I have to order a slip roll, I did these pieces just by wrapping around anything laying around that was the right diameter.  Holy cow just tacking 22ga with mig is hard, thought it would be easier.  Gas works great for the welding part though, so easy to control the heat.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: LaynDoor on Mar 02, 2013, 12:30:33
What torch are you using for the gas welding? My wifey got me a Smith AW1A recently with the 3 smallest tips and a set of ultra lightweight hoses... best setup I have ever had for welding sheet metal... its amazing how fast gas welding has gone away even though it is still the superior method in many applications.

You going to weld each ring before you start welding them together? Looks like you will be spending a lot of time fitting those up to weld! Depending on your patience level that can be the most rewarding part... take your time, its gunna be sick when your done!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Mar 04, 2013, 11:27:23
LaynDoor, wish I had your smith setup!  I have some no name torch but honestly it works fine, was thinking about getting one of those mecco midget torches when I was welding up the aluminum tank but never got around to it.  For years I have worked in fab/machine shops so I had the best gear available to use, now I am out of that line of work I have to use what I've got at home.  I  hear you on the gas welding, I just love braze welding with the oxy/acetylene although I haven't done much for many years.

I will be rolling all the cones and then welding the seams and dressing them out before I do any assembly.  Got to get it all assembled with little to no gaps then I won't need to use any filler rod.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: LaynDoor on Mar 04, 2013, 20:51:22
Got to get it all assembled with little to no gaps then I won't need to use any filler rod.

That will be a serious accomplishment. Cant wait to see it done man!

As far as the smith setup goes, i was absolutely shocked at how small and defined the cone is with the smallest tip... for sheetmetal, its like having a TIG... maybe better.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: johnu on Mar 28, 2013, 18:22:42
Finally got my slip rollers :)  All the cones are rolled except the ones in the front of the pics, I think I will have to make them in two pieces because it is impossible to skid the metal around to get the correct cone shape while rolling it through.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: squirley on Mar 28, 2013, 18:32:10
John,

Those cones are looking great! That's alot of work!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: Joon-yah on Mar 28, 2013, 20:21:41
Killer man,your exhaust is coming out real nice. Can't wait to see it all finished!!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: bradj on Mar 28, 2013, 22:10:08
Hold the corner of the small end with pliers and roll the metal through the big end of the cone has to go faster than the small its a bitch but it works hear is the set i made for my dad
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: johnu on Mar 28, 2013, 22:54:48
Nice job brad!  I will try holding the small end with pliers I hadn't thought of that, good tip.  The other cones were much easier I could hold it with my fingers.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (exhausting!)
Post by: dcracing on Mar 28, 2013, 23:31:29
A slip roll, pair of vice grips, mandrel and plastic mallet and you're on your way. That's a whole bunch of welding there.

 8)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: johnu on Mar 29, 2013, 01:23:00
8)
Guess I'm not paying attention!! Thanks.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: johnu on Apr 01, 2013, 22:12:23
Ok well I almost got the last two cones done using the vise grips as suggested by dcracing and brad (it worked well) then my new slip rolls expired!!  The gear on the end of one of the rollers shattered.  I will concentrate on getting all the other cones finished and assembled then get back to the two unfinished ones when I get a replacement set of rolls.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: bradj on Apr 01, 2013, 23:54:57
what kinda sliproll?
 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: johnu on Apr 02, 2013, 22:28:19
what kinda sliproll?
 

A cheap ebay job.  It will be returned soon!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: johnu on Apr 02, 2013, 22:29:23
Here is how I hold the seams on the cones together so I can tack them.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: VonYinzer on Apr 02, 2013, 22:38:36
Good call with the hose clamps.

Hey... By chance, would you happen to have another T500 crankshaft floating around?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Apr 02, 2013, 22:46:06
Not to hijack but, Yon, I have an extra crank, I would have to check it out to see if it is okay.  How soon do you need it?

Brian
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: johnu on Apr 02, 2013, 23:35:03
Good call with the hose clamps.

Hey... By chance, would you happen to have another T500 crankshaft floating around?

Sorry no T500 crank on the shelf!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: VonYinzer on Apr 02, 2013, 23:44:37
Sorry no T500 crank on the shelf!

Thanks! Keep up the killer work. Love this bike.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: johnu on Apr 03, 2013, 23:28:47
Cones all tacked up.  Now for a couple hours welding up the seams.
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: Walms on Apr 04, 2013, 07:50:33
Looking great John!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: Pattheswede on Apr 04, 2013, 16:18:45
Wow, lot of tacking :)
Looks nice!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: johnu on Apr 04, 2013, 21:37:33
thanks for the compliments!  I got some of the cones welded, it really doesn't take that long I just don't have much free time :(
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: johnu on Apr 06, 2013, 19:24:59
Cones are all welded now.  I got the first sub sections tacked together also.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: johnu on Apr 11, 2013, 00:31:04
Moderate progress, hope to get most of the cones tacked together tomorrow.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: johnu on Apr 11, 2013, 23:59:12
Inching forward, this is a long process!
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: Walms on Apr 12, 2013, 09:32:49
Tis a labour of love though... :) Looking great!!!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: Joon-yah on Apr 12, 2013, 12:06:37
loving this
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: johnu on Apr 12, 2013, 20:23:32
Thanks guys :)  Here is the right side mostly done aside from the silencer (which I don't have yet).  You probably spotted the mistake, I got the seam 180* off on two of the cones which doesn't look great but I'll live with it.  Just have to make one the exact opposite now and I'm all set :P
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: Drewski on Apr 12, 2013, 20:52:19
Sweet!!  8)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Apr 14, 2013, 13:20:38
Beautiful work, I wish I could do something like that.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: johnu on Apr 17, 2013, 16:29:34
Ok guys I have a decision to make on the silencers.  I am probably going to go with carbon silencers which are available in 150mm, 250mm and 300mm lengths.  The issue is that my pipes are already pretty long so I am thinking of going with the 150mm (6") option, however I am a bit concerned that they will be too loud!  Anyone used the 150mm silencers and have an opinion on the noise level?  I don't mind the bike having a good bark to it but I don't want it to be obnoxiuosly loud.

All thoughts and opinions welcomed!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: johnu on May 11, 2013, 08:44:20
Finally got left side pipe done.  It is tough making the pipe the exact opposite of the other side.  I am going to go with the 250mm silencers.  I feel as if I am actually getting somewhere now, the pipes were the major work I had left so hopefully I can get this thing done in a couple of months now.
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: Walms on May 11, 2013, 08:52:01
I bet you are a happy camper, they turned out great! Love the tins and suspension as well!
The whole bike is sick!!!!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: 50gary on May 11, 2013, 09:32:41
John, great job, stay the course!  Yes the symmetry is difficult, maybe that's why I make two into one exhaust?  My project has virtually stalled due to family matters etc. slow going but I keep on nibbling.  Your T-500 looks so good, and the technical specs will be impressive as well, should be a runner soon.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: Rich Ard on May 11, 2013, 11:21:49
Really nice work, John, they came out great.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: cobraace2 on May 11, 2013, 11:53:49
looking good  8)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: teazer on May 11, 2013, 12:06:00
Getting there John.  It looks amazing.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: bradj on May 11, 2013, 12:55:50
Nice work
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: seviston on May 11, 2013, 14:03:21
Love this T500!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: Joon-yah on May 13, 2013, 10:15:43
beautiful work as usual!!!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: SONIC. on May 13, 2013, 11:39:16
This thing is heaps of badass.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: zooke581 on May 14, 2013, 22:56:45
Looking great.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: johnu on May 17, 2013, 01:16:05
Thanks for all the kind words :).  I am trying to get hold of silencers from TZ Mike but I am not having any luck finding an email address to contact him on, does anyone have contact info.  I know he is on flickr but I am not smart enough to figure out how to make contact through that site.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: teazer on May 17, 2013, 01:26:21
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10430020@N08/sets/72157600954943500/

Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: johnu on May 23, 2013, 23:10:18
Got my silencers from TZMike, they are sweet!  Just need to get the silencers mounted and the side stand fitted then I can start stripping everything down ready fro the frame to be powder coated.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: johnu on May 28, 2013, 23:56:01
Silencers and side stand fitted.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: bradj on May 29, 2013, 06:29:01
Perfect
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: Walms on May 29, 2013, 08:15:25
Perfect

+1

Love it!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers underway)
Post by: johnu on May 29, 2013, 16:03:47
Thanks!
Now I can begin to strip everything down and finish welding the rearset hangers and side stand bracket to the frame, also modify the steering stop for more lock.  Frame should be ready for painting then, of course I am thinking of a different color for the frame now which is causing a dilema.  All along I was going to go with a gloss black frame and swing arm, now I am thinking of doing it silver as it might look good with the brushed aluminum finish of the tank and seat... we will see, who knows I may go for somthing completely different!  For sure the wheels will be gloss black and maybe the triple clamps satin black.  The cylinder heads will most likely be gold to tie in with the footpegs and calipers.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers finished)
Post by: Joon-yah on May 29, 2013, 16:51:49
really love what you have done with it. Imo,the silver would not give contrast to your beautiful alloy work. maybe a dark grey or something along those lines would flow with it all but not blend with the alloy.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers finished)
Post by: 50gary on May 29, 2013, 18:30:19

Wow, John great work all around.  You're so close to finishing, very exciting.  I never get tired of seeing your updates.  Whatever your colour choice I'm sure it'll be cool.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers finished)
Post by: johnu on May 30, 2013, 14:17:09
really love what you have done with it. Imo,the silver would not give contrast to your beautiful alloy work. maybe a dark grey or something along those lines would flow with it all but not blend with the alloy.

I think your probably right about the silver blending in.  I might look into some kind of black metal flake or candy.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers finished)
Post by: Maritime on May 30, 2013, 14:28:49
A gunmetal might make the frame contrast enough or even something more crazy, but I agree the metal work needs to be contrasted to show because it is a work of art.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers finished)
Post by: Joon-yah on May 30, 2013, 17:50:34
I think your probably right about the silver blending in.  I might look into some kind of black metal flake or candy.   Ooh,now ya talking. I'm a bit partial to the metal work,lol. But i know which ever way you go it will be beautiful!!!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers finished)
Post by: shafted on May 31, 2013, 00:43:21
holy cow batman! This project is amazing!   :o

Have you got more details of how your made the tunnel for the tank?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers finished)
Post by: johnu on May 31, 2013, 01:29:53
holy cow batman! This project is amazing!   :o

Have you got more details of how your made the tunnel for the tank?

Thx.  Here is a link to the thread I did for making the tank http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=30717.0
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers finished)
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on May 31, 2013, 02:45:58
I would keep the swingarm unpainted and just paint the frame.  Even the orange of your shock absorber would make a good colour for your frame.  I think you could go with a darker grey frame or a contrasting colour on this beauty.  Man o man, I wish I could do work like you.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers finished)
Post by: johnu on Jun 01, 2013, 18:42:15
Thx for the kind words.

I am for sure leaning towards black metalflake powder for the frame now.  I need to do some research on what's available now, I'd like it to have big pieces of silver flake in it but now sure yet what is possible.  Something like this pic but with bigger flakes.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers finished)
Post by: DreadRock on Jun 02, 2013, 00:33:27
Bass boat black !
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers finished)
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Jun 02, 2013, 14:02:07
Do you mean the big metal flakes of the speed boats and hot rods of the 60's and 70's?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers finished)
Post by: DreadRock on Jun 02, 2013, 23:54:36
Yep that's what I'm thinking !
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers finished)
Post by: johnu on Jun 03, 2013, 01:09:20
Yes that's it exactly.  I don't know if you can get that done in powder though.... or if it's going to look lame?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers finished)
Post by: johnu on Jun 04, 2013, 21:28:07
Decided to add a couple of gussets to the top shock mounting just to be on the safe side.  Think I am just going to go gloss black with the frame, then "if" I have to ever modify anything it should be easy to match up.  Probably do the swing arm silver though.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers finished)
Post by: zooke581 on Jun 04, 2013, 21:52:02
I used ceramic silver engine paint with a clear coat on my old GS1150ES frame with good results.  I also use it on my GT750 and T500 cases.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers finished)
Post by: johnu on Jun 09, 2013, 22:56:25
Frame is in for powder coating .  Going with piano black, it is like an ultra gloss!!  Only $150, hopefully the quality will be good.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (expansion chambers finished)
Post by: seviston on Jun 09, 2013, 23:55:33
Super work johnu! My GT 750 came out nice with the black frame and big silver metal flake under blue on the panels. You have a sweet build man, can't wait to see it roll'n.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jun 12, 2013, 16:49:44
Here's the frame back from powder.  Got a little work to do on the swingarm before paint then the build up will begin!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: 50gary on Jun 12, 2013, 20:05:38
DeLuxe!
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: two-smoker on Jun 12, 2013, 23:09:49
Do a search for Roth Flake. They sell it in spray cans now, even. I plan to use it on my tins.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Jun 13, 2013, 02:50:33
Just in case you don't know about Roth, he was a real character. 

Not to hijack.

http://www.ratfink.org/ratfink3.htm
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jun 13, 2013, 21:27:03
Got the swingarm primed today.  I won't be powder coating it as it has some kind of foam rubber inside to deal with vibration I imagine.  Will be doing s/a in silver to tie in with the silver forks and contrast with the black wheels.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: 50gary on Jun 13, 2013, 23:02:03
Humm?  I never realized there is foam inside of the FZR600 S/A?  I have one on my XS650 Yamaha and I powder coated it, mine is a 1994 arm.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jun 13, 2013, 23:42:07
You know what though Gary, the foam rubber probably wouldn't melt at 350f which is what I think they bake the paint at.  I am painting oit myself for two reasons actually, first the aforementioned foam and secondly the fact that I could end up changing the colour.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: 50gary on Jun 14, 2013, 09:33:58
Yep, have you ever tried to remove fresh powder coat, that is not an easy task?  You must burn it a with a torch to age the new coating so it becomes brittle then it can be blasted off.
  Paint looks better as well, powder is good for what it is but a paint job is still the best finish.  Your bike is going to be so nice.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jun 14, 2013, 20:56:30
Swingarm with first coat of silver.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jun 14, 2013, 20:58:32
Pipes are finished with all brackets on and welded.  I can't believe how light these pipes are!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: Joon-yah on Jun 15, 2013, 08:39:16
Everything is just so sexy!!! Those pipes are sick!!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Jun 15, 2013, 11:08:38
Those pipes are so bloody hot.

That swing arm has a lot of surface to show off the new paint, cool!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jun 17, 2013, 21:20:13
Ok got a little more done today, rearsets are on and the triples are painted.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: DreadRock on Jun 17, 2013, 21:33:13
Oooo I like that gold man  :o
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: zooke581 on Jun 17, 2013, 22:29:52
Purdy!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: seviston on Jun 17, 2013, 23:37:45
Pipes are finished with all brackets on and welded.  I can't believe how light these pipes are!

Uhm... these are off the hook sick! Awesome job.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Jun 18, 2013, 04:17:43
Gorgeous paint on the triples, I forget if you mentioned it before but, is it rattle paint, what brand?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: Maritime on Jun 18, 2013, 08:25:42
wow, just wow.  This part of the build is the best, when all the parts start going on the last time and it becomes the bike you wanted it to be.  This one will be killer for sure, those pipes rock.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jun 18, 2013, 10:37:15
Gorgeous paint on the triples, I forget if you mentioned it before but, is it rattle paint, what brand?

The triples are actually painted with rattle can, it is Duplicolor engine enamel from pep boys.  I have to cook it at 200* for an hour to harden the paint.  I couldn't find the right color in regular enamel.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jun 18, 2013, 20:58:05
Got the forks back in today and some of the electrical components mounted.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: Joon-yah on Jun 19, 2013, 08:54:49
she's looking awesome man
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jun 20, 2013, 19:36:33
Thx.  Got the swing arm done and installed today.
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: Walms on Jun 21, 2013, 09:02:22
Super clean looking frame John!
Looks the biz!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: ako on Jun 21, 2013, 09:22:28
Looking great.

My pedantic side says paint the coil gold or black though
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: MJPriceisright on Jun 21, 2013, 10:44:29
guaranteed bike of the month?  id like to think so.  awesome build dude been following along for a while now.. just love it.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: DreadRock on Jun 21, 2013, 11:19:13
Looking great.

My pedantic side says paint the coil gold or black though

I would have to agree on the spring color but I'm sure you already have a plan for that ?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jun 21, 2013, 12:33:24
I would have to agree on the spring color but I'm sure you already have a plan for that ?

Haha!  I knew I'd get called out on the spring.  Orange is my favorite color and was my original choice for my tank and seat, but as i decided to leave them raw aluminium I had to get a splash of orange somewhere.  I'll make my final decision on the spring when the bike is complete.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: DreadRock on Jun 21, 2013, 13:38:03
Haha!  I knew I'd get called out on the spring.  Orange is my favorite color and was my original choice for my tank and seat, but as i decided to leave them raw aluminium I had to get a splash of orange somewhere.  I'll make my final decision on the spring when the bike is complete.

 Being a KaTOOM rider I can understand  ;)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jun 21, 2013, 13:44:39
Right on Dread "Go orange" ;D
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: clem on Jun 22, 2013, 23:42:19
Well, after 3 days of reading this thread in it's entirety,  I say that I would blitz a set of whoops with those renthal fatbars. Awesome job dude!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jun 23, 2013, 12:10:39
Well, after 3 days of reading this thread in it's entirety,  I say that I would blitz a set of whoops with those renthal fatbars. Awesome job dude!


Thanks!  I might not be blitzing whoops on this one but I hope to beat up on some sport bikes at trackdays just like with the supermoto.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jun 24, 2013, 13:40:16
Bottom end installed.  I suppose next will come my least favorite part the electrical >:(
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: DreadRock on Jun 24, 2013, 19:08:45
Now that I see it in that pic John keep the orange spring !!!!!!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: Joon-yah on Jun 25, 2013, 12:55:27
Now that I see it in that pic John keep the orange spring !!!!!!
                                                                                                                             Totally agree, it sets it off imo!!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jun 30, 2013, 21:09:19
Ok guys, will be getting wheels powder coated and it's time to buy some tires.  I don't know much about street tires as I have really only used slicks for racing so I am looking for suggestions.  I don't want to break the bank buying tyres so I will be looking at moderately priced items ideally.  I mostly used Michelin slicks for racing and have been happy with them, but their street tyres seem to be pretty expensive.  Are there different compounds of road tyres?

Interestingly I picked up the stock rear wheel with tyre and the Kawi wheel with tyre (the one I'm using) and the new wheel and tyre must be close to half the weight of the original, I couldn't believe the difference.  I will have to get the bathroom scale out to check the actual weight difference.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: 50gary on Jun 30, 2013, 23:22:40
John, refresh my memory what size tires are you going to fit?  I should go back through the build and look it up?
Edit>  Ha!  Found it on page three, 17" x 3.5" frt and 17 x 5" rear.  You said you'd use a 4.25" rear width? 
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jul 01, 2013, 01:58:54
John, refresh my memory what size tires are you going to fit?  I should go back through the build and look it up?
Edit>  Ha!  Found it on page three, 17" x 3.5" frt and 17 x 5" rear.  You said you'd use a 4.25" rear width? 
  Cheers, 50gary

Actually Gary, I ended up using a 17 x 4.5" rear.  I want to use the narrowest tire that can be fitted to the 4.5" rear.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: MJPriceisright on Jul 01, 2013, 10:00:17
Ok guys, will be getting wheels powder coated and it's time to buy some tires.  I don't know much about street tires as I have really only used slicks for racing so I am looking for suggestions.  I don't want to break the bank buying tyres so I will be looking at moderately priced items ideally.  I mostly used Michelin slicks for racing and have been happy with them, but their street tyres seem to be pretty expensive.  Are there different compounds of road tyres?

Interestingly I picked up the stock rear wheel with tyre and the Kawi wheel with tyre (the one I'm using) and the new wheel and tyre must be close to half the weight of the original, I couldn't believe the difference.  I will have to get the bathroom scale out to check the actual weight difference.

I have always preferred Michelin tires,  used em on my sport bikes, as well as track bikes.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jul 03, 2013, 14:19:06
Just ordered a load of stainless bolts so I can get more stuff bolted on!  Cheap fasteners at www.allensfasteners.com  I just found the place through google.  They don't gouge you on the shipping unlike a lot of the suppliers.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: MatthiasSalzburg on Jul 03, 2013, 15:24:15
Just ordered a load of stainless bolts so I can get more stuff bolted on!  Cheap fasteners at www.allensfasteners.com  I just found the place through google.  They don't gouge you on the shipping unlike a lot of the suppliers.

I like that place too.  I got my chrome hardware from them.  Really reasonable prices.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jul 06, 2013, 20:40:55
Not much activity, waiting for bolts.  Made this oil filler plug today out of some scrap alloy.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: clem on Jul 07, 2013, 15:32:59
I like it John. Good skills.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: jfman on Jul 12, 2013, 23:58:15
Actually Gary, I ended up using a 17 x 4.5" rear.  I want to use the narrowest tire that can be fitted to the 4.5" rear.


I put a 150 rear on my 4.5 wheel and looks quite nice.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/jfboy/swingarm3.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/jfboy/1368423425.jpg
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jul 13, 2013, 22:11:02

I put a 150 rear on my 4.5 wheel and looks quite nice.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/jfboy/swingarm3.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/jfboy/1368423425.jpg

Thanks!  I will most likely use a 150, I need as much clearance for the chain as I can get.  What brand is the tyre in the pics?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jul 13, 2013, 22:11:49
What should I use on my expansion chambers to stop them rusting?
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: Walms on Jul 13, 2013, 22:13:14
Mop n' glo works well if you don't plan to paint.

(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f371/walms/F5CE0EE0-980F-4E67-9360-80BB4CA63CE2-120-0000002B2672F403.jpg)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: 50gary on Jul 13, 2013, 22:27:58
Ceramic coating for me. 
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: two-smoker on Jul 14, 2013, 14:15:29
Yeah. I agree with 50gary. I sent the chambers on my 380 out to Jethot. They cleaned off all the rust, fixed the little pinholes in the original welds, and even coated the insides. Pricey, though. Relatively speaking.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: oxford on Jul 14, 2013, 18:47:46
I followed your tank build in the other thread with great interest, I never realized there was a bike build to go with it.  Great job on everything.  I have a question on your pipes though.  What did you do for the final finish?  It looks like you polished them out and then went back over the seems with the torch to get the heat marks back in.  Is this correct?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jul 14, 2013, 23:47:00
I followed your tank build in the other thread with great interest, I never realized there was a bike build to go with it.  Great job on everything.  I have a question on your pipes though.  What did you do for the final finish?  It looks like you polished them out and then went back over the seems with the torch to get the heat marks back in.  Is this correct?

You have a good eye!  I did wire wheel the pipes after I finished them then ran the torch around the seems quickly to just discolour the area directly around the seems (looks more like it is done with tig).  I prefer this look to the total discolouration that you get with straight  oxy/acetylene welding.  That was why I asked the question about what to use to protect the finish, I will use mop n glo as suggested by Walms to retain the raw look.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jul 14, 2013, 23:47:39
Mop n' glo works well if you don't plan to paint.

(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f371/walms/F5CE0EE0-980F-4E67-9360-80BB4CA63CE2-120-0000002B2672F403.jpg)

Thanks, do I get it at an auto parts store?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: 50gary on Jul 15, 2013, 00:20:08
Probably at the "Dollar Store" would be cheapest, it's a Kitchen floor wax product as far as I know?
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jul 15, 2013, 01:18:15
Probably at the "Dollar Store" would be cheapest, it's a Kitchen floor wax product as far as I know?
  Cheers, 50gary

Haha, thanks Gary!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Jul 15, 2013, 02:23:36
Mop n Glow?  Gee I wished I knew that before I used some kind of cooking oil like Pam on mine.

I will clean that off and try the Mop n Glow, cool.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jul 15, 2013, 21:35:17
Got the heads on and the brake and clutch controls.  No more gold, I promise!  I can't believe I did the gold, I am not a bling type person normally.  I think it will tone down when I get the tank and seat on.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: Joon-yah on Jul 15, 2013, 23:08:17
I'm usually not either,lol. But i love the accents an agree it'll look sweet when the kick ass body work is on!!! killer work bro!!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Jul 16, 2013, 01:27:29
I like it, like it a lot!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: MJPriceisright on Jul 16, 2013, 11:52:53
hurrrryyyy up with the tank already.  haha
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jul 17, 2013, 13:32:52
Thanks guys.  I will probably leave the tank and seat until last, there are a ton of small things to work on before I get to that!  Will be ordering my new carbs today.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: darkhorse on Jul 17, 2013, 18:02:35
I can't wait to see this, it's coming together so nice. Good work John.

I've used Mop n Glow and it works really well.

Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jul 18, 2013, 21:30:51
All cables, grips and switchgear on.  I will be using a small bicycle speedo and a mini round mirror that clamps to the bars so there will not be much clutter in the bar area.  Tank is just on there so I could route the cables.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: jfman on Jul 19, 2013, 02:02:52
Thanks!  I will most likely use a 150, I need as much clearance for the chain as I can get.  What brand is the tyre in the pics?

Shinko
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: MickyC on Jul 19, 2013, 05:50:30
THIS IS ONE TOUGH LOOKING TITAN
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jul 19, 2013, 14:09:29
So on to the dreaded electrical >:(  Here is the plan I have for all of my grounding (see pic below); I have sanded the powder coating down to bare metal on the bracket that is holding the rectifier and added a 6mm bolt which is captive to the bracket (it's the one sticking up with the plain nut on it.  I plan to run the heavy ground wire from the engine to this bolt, also the heavy wire from the negative side of the battery and all the other grounds from lights and components.  Does this sound right?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: cobraace2 on Jul 20, 2013, 13:04:14
The bike is looking good  8)  that sounds like a good plan on the grounding.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jul 23, 2013, 13:49:46
Carbs arrived today :)  Left side carb bowl hits ignition case >:(  Anyone else run into this problem?  It is the bump in the bowl casting where the dowel for the float is pressed in.  I see 3 ways to rectify the problem but I dont like any of them.

1.  I could try filing down the bowl casting but I don't know how much I could take off until it goes through into the hole.
2.  I could modify the ignition case (mill a chunk out).
3.  I could use the original long manifolds which should give me clearance.  However all the engine work was done with the intent to use short manifolds.

I would choose option #1 if I was sure that I could remove enough material without cause an issue.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: 1969Honda on Jul 23, 2013, 13:55:47
Could you do some type of a "slightly" upward angle with a short custom carb manifold that's not going to cause float problems? Or possibly return/swap the carbs out for an angled down draft style carb?  ???  I'm not up to date on a lot of things but that's a beautiful bike you've got going, to start milling covers and filling bowls would be a shame if there's another way around it.  All in all though as I said that's one helluva good looking T500!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: S Majure on Jul 23, 2013, 14:17:25
John, I have a set of VM 30s that Gary at Spec II modified to fit the RD he shaved the protruding bit from the bottom to make it work. I can try to snap a pic when I get to my bike later today. maybe that would ease your mind a bit. Its in the same spot on the left side
Scott
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jul 23, 2013, 15:19:38
John, I have a set of VM 30s that Gary at Spec II modified to fit the RD he shaved the protruding bit from the bottom to make it work. I can try to snap a pic when I get to my bike later today. maybe that would ease your mind a bit. Its in the same spot on the left side
Scott

That would be great, thanks Scott!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Jul 23, 2013, 20:00:42
I have a set of 30mm from Spec ll for my RZ and Gary said to pry the left one up as you tighten the carb clamp to clear the clutch belcrank.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: zooke581 on Jul 24, 2013, 20:34:21
Make an aluminum wedge, thick at the bottom and thin at the top in the shape of the gasket.  Put a gasket on each side and then the intake boot.  It will get your carbs more parallel to the piston.  I had angle milled some cylinders before and you would also need to shave the fins back on the heads.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: cobraace2 on Jul 25, 2013, 13:13:35
What zooke said on the carbs ;) I can't wait to vote for this beast on BOTM ;D
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Jul 25, 2013, 15:50:47
Great idea Zooke. I'm going to try that.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jul 25, 2013, 16:19:43
Great idea Zooke. I'm going to try that.

Well yes it is a great idea, just wish I had known about this issue sooner and I would have had the shims made already!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jul 25, 2013, 16:22:12
What zooke said on the carbs ;) I can't wait to vote for this beast on BOTM ;D
[/quot
What zooke said on the carbs ;) I can't wait to vote for this beast on BOTM ;D

Thx.  I have to get it finished in less than 8 weeks, that's when my son gets home from A school navy training.  He and I started this project about three years ago.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: zooke581 on Jul 25, 2013, 22:33:33
You can take those later T/GT500 aluminum extensions and use those for the wedge pieces.  If you need some others I have them.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jul 25, 2013, 23:51:09
You can take those later T/GT500 aluminum extensions and use those for the wedge pieces.  If you need some others I have them.

Thx Eric, good idea!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jul 26, 2013, 00:22:30
Most of the wiring done!  I hate this part >:(
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: mrpoopman on Jul 26, 2013, 10:32:41
Bike is gonna look tough as nails
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jul 26, 2013, 14:10:37
Bike is gonna look tough as nails

Thanks, I hope it IS tough!  I plan on beating up on sportbikes at trackdays.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: rc51rydr on Jul 26, 2013, 18:25:54
Just spent a majority of my day reading up on this build. AMAZING job and its turning out super clean.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jul 26, 2013, 20:07:41
Just spent a majority of my day reading up on this build. AMAZING job and its turning out super clean.
Thanks!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jul 26, 2013, 20:10:25
I think I am giong to stick with my original idea for the headlights and run them naked with no cowl or front plate.  I may change my mind later but for right now I like it.  I managed to hide all of the wiring that was in the original headlaight bucket up under the tank.

Another headache at the moment is routing the clutch and throttle cables, the original Suzuki cable seems to be a bit long for my needs.  I am also using an original Suzuki throttle cable and the bends on the end that go into the new VM34's have too much of an angle on them so I will have to try to straighten them out a bit to get a straight pull for the cable.

One thing I noticed when I took the new carbs apart, they have the heaviest slides I have ever come across!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Jul 29, 2013, 20:24:49
Started working on the finish on my seat/tail section today, I do not like trying to get a finish on raw aluminium.  My plan is as suggested by Junior Burrell to have a polished stripe down the middle then the rest of it scotchbrite finish, not sure if I have the patience to do that yet.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: Joon-yah on Jul 30, 2013, 09:51:22
Started working on the finish on my seat/tail section today, I do not like trying to get a finish on raw aluminium.  My plan is as suggested by Junior Burrell to have a polished stripe down the middle then the rest of it scotchbrite finish, not sure if I have the patience to do that yet.
      haha,that's awesome n cant wait to see it!!!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Aug 01, 2013, 17:12:35
Well I dug out the polishing wheels that I bought about ten years ago and never used!  Time to get dirty on the buffer, I will be learning how to polish as I go, Iread the tutorial on Casewells website so I have a bit of an idea.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Aug 01, 2013, 20:59:48
Did some of the hand sanding down to 220.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Aug 02, 2013, 21:48:31
First go at polishing, I can't seem to get a uniform finish.  Some parts are great and some of the big flat areas are not so good.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: WIESEL on Aug 03, 2013, 00:30:46
I am no expert at polishing but, how bout using a D/A on the flats with W/D up to 1000 grit then, blend in the curves.

Love your bike man, coolest build I have seen thus far!8)

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: 50gary on Aug 03, 2013, 08:46:20
John, I think 220 grit is pretty coarse to start polishing?  I know a fellow that's been a professional polisher for his entire career, I could ask him Monday?  Do you have the big cotton wheel buffs and Rouge?
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Aug 03, 2013, 14:14:47
Gary, I ended up going down to 400 grit sanding.  I have read a lot of tutorials on polishing and there are several different shcools of thought on how to go about it.  Any info you are able to get will be appreciated, thanks.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: teazer on Aug 04, 2013, 01:32:35
When I used to take parts to be polished, they did not use wet and dry.  They just used different wheels and compounds.  Start with a Siail wheel and compound to cutting stainless steel and take it easy - that will cut pretty fast.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Aug 04, 2013, 12:29:44
I figured it out finally, I still had way too many scratches in the ally.  I  decided to try my d/a palm sander with just regular sanding discs not wet&dry and it came out really smooth.  Then it is pretty easy to buff it to a polish finish using first the sisal wheel with black compound then the cotton wheel with brown.

Trouble is I burned out my harbour frieght buffer (had it ten years though) so I have to get a new one.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Aug 04, 2013, 12:56:40
I'm just starting to get into polishing myself.  Three things I have learned:  1. Must have alcohol on hand.  2. Must have ample supply of music.  3. Must start with as course as necessary abrasive to deal with scratches on your piece.  On my GT500 hubs, I started with 220.

Brian
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Aug 04, 2013, 17:09:54
I'm just starting to get into polishing myself.  Three things I have learned:  1. Must have alcohol on hand.  2. Must have ample supply of music.  3. Must start with as course as necessary abrasive to deal with scratches on your piece.  On my GT500 hubs, I started with 220.

Brian

Not sure about #1 when usinga 3/4hp  buffer (-; but the rest I agree!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Aug 04, 2013, 17:10:26
I am no expert at polishing but, how bout using a D/A on the flats with W/D up to 1000 grit then, blend in the curves.

Love your bike man, coolest build I have seen thus far!8)

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2


Thanks.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Aug 04, 2013, 19:23:24
Got my rear wheel back from the powder coaters.  I am using and old avon rear tyre that I used for a Supermoto endurance race once on my KTM.  I call it a 155/70-17 because it started out as a 160 but I shaved the edge down to eliminate chain rub, it is the perfect width with this bike too.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Aug 05, 2013, 22:52:43
And the front wheel in.  It's starting to look like a bike again!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: Big-D on Aug 06, 2013, 09:07:08
Ahhhh this is turning out sweet
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Aug 14, 2013, 00:20:00
Been in Great Lakes Illinois for my sons graduation from Navy bootcamp which was awesome!  So not too much progress, I did get one of my Shims made for the carb inlet manifold.  It needed 5mm taper from top to bottom.  Zookie sent me two of the original t500 maniflods to use to make the shims (thanks Eric and thanks for the idea how to do it).  Mounted the 4 jaw chuck up in the lathe and rigged the flange at the required angle to get 5mm taper, a bit sketchy but it worked out ok.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Aug 14, 2013, 20:35:19
And the carbs are on!  About 3mm clearance now that I installed the tapered shims.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Aug 14, 2013, 23:41:24
This project just gets better and better.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: zooke581 on Aug 14, 2013, 23:49:11
Looks great.  Glad you got it to work.  My way was more old fashioned as I do not have a lathe.  Good job.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: 50gary on Aug 15, 2013, 00:12:31
Nice, splendid in fact, I approve. 
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: teazer on Aug 15, 2013, 02:15:59
Been in Great Lakes Illinois for my sons graduation from Navy bootcamp which was awesome! ............

Dude, you passed my place on the way and you didn't drop in for coffee. Next time say Hi. :-)

Nice piece of machining.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Aug 15, 2013, 12:14:49
Dude, you passed my place on the way and you didn't drop in for coffee. Next time say Hi. :-)

Nice piece of machining.

I didn't know you were right there.   We stayed in Libertyville just down the road from you!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: AceCR on Aug 16, 2013, 18:02:51
very clean
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Aug 16, 2013, 18:18:29
Got the pipes back on and the gear shift linkage finished today.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: clem on Aug 16, 2013, 21:17:07
Looks factory. Roger DeCoster would dig it. Insane good stuff John.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: Rich Ard on Aug 16, 2013, 22:42:57
I don't know if Tim can verify it, but I read this thread anytime anyone posts to it, just in case it's more pictures.

Looking good John.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: teazer on Aug 17, 2013, 00:31:54
You are not alone there.   ;) :)
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: ABCanuck on Aug 17, 2013, 00:49:00
Most certainly not alone
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Aug 17, 2013, 18:29:25
Thx guys.  Small update, I got the carb vent lines run to the catch tank today.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: Joon-yah on Aug 18, 2013, 11:00:58
I thought i was the only one doing that,lol. Incredible work n detail as always!!!!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: DreadRock on Aug 18, 2013, 15:08:51
 Don't know if this was said so thought I would ask . With the carbs now kicked out causing from the looks gives a straighter line from filter thru carb into motor . Will this help with better flow of air and give better performance or other way around ? Bike is looking perfect man !
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: 3DogNate on Aug 18, 2013, 17:04:39
Been in Great Lakes Illinois for my sons graduation from Navy bootcamp which was awesome!  So not too much progress, I did get one of my Shims made for the carb inlet manifold.  It needed 5mm taper from top to bottom.  Zookie sent me two of the original t500 maniflods to use to make the shims (thanks Eric and thanks for the idea how to do it).  Mounted the 4 jaw chuck up in the lathe and rigged the flange at the required angle to get 5mm taper, a bit sketchy but it worked out ok.

That's very cool... my son just graduated Navy Boot Camp also. His PIR was July 19th. He's down in Pensacola, FL for his A-School now... he is loving it so far.

Oh, T500 is looking cool too. :)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Aug 18, 2013, 17:47:55
That's very cool... my son just graduated Navy Boot Camp also. His PIR was July 19th. He's down in Pensacola, FL for his A-School now... he is loving it so far.

Oh, T500 is looking cool too. :)
Small world!  It's an amazingly proud feeling watching your son or daughter graduate from Navy boot camp.  I didn't think it would effect me so deeply.  My son is also in Pensacola for A-School and he too is loving it!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Aug 18, 2013, 17:49:50
Don't know if this was said so thought I would ask . With the carbs now kicked out causing from the looks gives a straighter line from filter thru carb into motor . Will this help with better flow of air and give better performance or other way around ? Bike is looking perfect man !

You are correct, I have been told it will help rather than being a hindrance.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: teazer on Aug 18, 2013, 19:18:40
And just to turn that timing upside down, my father in law graduated from Great Lakes and went to FL back in the 40s before he flew F4Fs and F4Us in WW11. 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Aug 18, 2013, 21:27:27
And just to turn that timing upside down, my father in law graduated from Great Lakes and went to FL back in the 40s before he flew F4Fs and F4Us in WW11. 

Wow!  My son won't be flying, he is a going to be a yellow shirt on the flight deck.
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: 3DogNate on Aug 19, 2013, 15:00:40

Wow!  My son won't be flying, he is a going to be a yellow shirt on the flight deck.

My son will be a Cryptographic Technician (CTM)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Aug 19, 2013, 21:15:20
Got my seat/tail polished, it looks better in real life than in the pics.  I didn't polish the parts where the pad will go.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: zooke581 on Aug 20, 2013, 00:05:02
You did a great job.  Bike is lookin'...yep...it sure is!   Sorry, loss for words.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: Big-D on Aug 20, 2013, 08:54:26
At a loss here as well. Great lines, and attention to detail. Looks factory for sure
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Aug 20, 2013, 12:27:42
You, sir, are a master!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: teazer on Aug 20, 2013, 12:38:44
At a loss here as well. Great lines, and attention to detail. Looks factory for sure

More like a factory prototype or styling studio model or works racer.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: 3DogNate on Aug 20, 2013, 14:59:52
Exceptional job.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Aug 20, 2013, 22:21:39
Thanks guys, I suppose after building the thing for almost three years it better turn out a bit decent;)  I put the rear lights in and the seat pad on today.  Don't really like how the pad looks I might just make it one piece.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: MJPriceisright on Aug 21, 2013, 11:57:31
I actually do like the pads, but not the color.. if they were like jet black I think it would look better maybe..
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: DreadRock on Aug 21, 2013, 13:12:13
Ill 2nd the seat pad color , a black would flow better with the bike !
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: BigBSBusa on Aug 21, 2013, 13:27:11
Yes, definitely a different color (black) for the pads.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Aug 21, 2013, 14:56:58
I agree.  The pad is supposed to be black but it is more gray than black.  I bought this stuff from ebay and it is pretty low quality.  I will be ordering some more from Airtech today.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Aug 21, 2013, 22:24:47
Tank is next for sanding and polishing!  I have to put the Caswell liner in first though.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: Joon-yah on Aug 21, 2013, 22:55:19
oh yeah!! Love that tank!!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: teazer on Aug 21, 2013, 23:21:53
We appreciate the choice of foam.  Finally something we can bitch about.  That's a first.  :-)

Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Aug 22, 2013, 21:32:26
I did the caswell liner today, followed the instructions exactly and it looks to have worked out perfectly.  I just about finished the wiring today, I am getting bored with crimping on connectors.  Highlight of the day was filling the oil tank with 2 stroke oil... getting close now!  The biggest job I have left I think is to get custom brake lines made.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: zooke581 on Aug 22, 2013, 23:14:35
Don't understand why you have to line an aluminum tank except for maybe pinhole leaks from the welds you may be concerned about.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: clem on Aug 22, 2013, 23:27:31
John, I think that I might go back and read through the thread again. It's that good.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Aug 22, 2013, 23:50:21
Don't understand why you have to line an aluminum tank except for maybe pinhole leaks from the welds you may be concerned about.

Yes there could be a couple of pinholes.  Don't forget I welded it with oxy/acetylene so I don't trust it completely.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Aug 22, 2013, 23:52:05
John, I think that I might go back and read through the thread again. It's that good.

Thx, think some of my original ideas changed along the way a little but I guess that's fairly normal on this sort of project.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Aug 22, 2013, 23:52:54
The liner has set up nicely, now I can get to sanding and polishing.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: Joon-yah on Aug 23, 2013, 08:20:44
Lining a alloy tanks is always a good idea,they are prone to cracking and the liner helps to dampen the vibrations.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Aug 23, 2013, 12:47:28
Lining a alloy tanks is always a good idea,they are prone to cracking and the liner helps to dampen the vibrations.
Vibration will be my biggest enemy I think on this bike, I have rubber mounted the tank so hopefully shouldn't have any issues.  My pipes are spring and rubber mounted which should be sufficient to stop any cracking.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: clem on Aug 23, 2013, 21:22:27
I finally made it back to the end!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Aug 23, 2013, 21:39:16
I finally made it back to the end!

Holy cow that's a lot of reading!  I am looking forward to photo shopping a before and after pic together.... quite a change!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Aug 26, 2013, 19:15:03
No progress this weekend, my sander took a dive had to order a new bearing for it.  Also did a 6hr mountain bike race on Saturday, crashed 3 times so needed some rest after that!!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Aug 27, 2013, 21:10:29
Lights are working!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: 1969Honda on Sep 01, 2013, 16:22:32
That's such a beautiful bike...  I think I've read the entire thread 3 or 4 times in the past few months just to take it all in. Great work man.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Sep 02, 2013, 20:19:42
That's such a beautiful bike...  I think I've read the entire thread 3 or 4 times in the past few months just to take it all in. Great work man.
Thanks!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Sep 04, 2013, 00:04:01
Tank is all sanded, started polishing today.  Should get it finished tomorrow.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: zooke581 on Sep 04, 2013, 00:21:36
Lookin' good John.  Quit teasing and get it done. 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Sep 04, 2013, 00:31:10
Lookin' good John.  Quit teasing and get it done. 


Haha yes that would be nice.  Won't be anymore pics of the whole bike until she is complete!!!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: danejurrous on Sep 04, 2013, 12:29:56
Haha yes that would be nice.  Won't be anymore pics of the whole bike until she is complete!!!

(http://washingtoncouldlearnalot.com/wp-content/uploads/do-you-realize.jpg)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: teazer on Sep 04, 2013, 14:12:26
Haha yes that would be nice.  Won't be anymore pics of the whole bike until she is complete!!!

That is simply not acceptable behavior sir.  You have no idea of the impact of that on the mental health of others...
Many of us have every picture you posted copied to our hard drives.  We need our picture fix to vicariously enjoy the build. 

Now get back to polishing and posting............................................Please.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: 1969Honda on Sep 04, 2013, 15:08:54
Quote
Haha yes that would be nice.  Won't be anymore pics of the whole bike until she is complete!!!

I don't think you fully understand how the lack of visual aids will impact the balance of the universe...... Please share more pictures so that the masses don't go crazy and end the world for us all  ;D..... now as Teazer said
Quote
...get back to polishing and posting............................................Please.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Sep 04, 2013, 17:52:03
Ok didn't realise I was going to cause so much trouble :)   Still posting pics but only of parts, no complete bike.  I have a friend that is a pro photographer who will take pics for me when it's finished.  I finished polishing the tank today, I think I am going to leave it all mirror polished for now, no scotchbrite areas (sorry Junior!).  I am well pleased with how it came out, originally I was expecting to be using filler and then paint.  Guess I did a better job than I thought I could.  It is not perfect but I reckon it's on par with 60's and 70's factory race bikes and specials I have seen in museums.  Here are a couple of pics of the finished item.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: Big-D on Sep 04, 2013, 18:40:10
WOW, that tank turned out killer. Looking good
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: 50gary on Sep 04, 2013, 23:54:57
John, so good to see the bike coming together so well.  I'm happy for you even now before you've ridden it.  I know you are aware that you are also causing a slow down on this web sight due to all the traffic lining up to give you the kudos you have earned.  I've been trying to get on for days just to say well done, well almost done. The ride should be great for sure. 
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Sep 05, 2013, 00:24:07
Man, that tank is THE TITS!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Sep 05, 2013, 01:27:42
John, so good to see the bike coming together so well.  I'm happy for you even now before you've ridden it.  I know you are aware that you are also causing a slow down on this web sight due to all the traffic lining up to give you the kudos you have earned.  I've been trying to get on for days just to say well done, well almost done. The ride should be great for sure. 
  Cheers, 50gary

Thanks Gary, I appreciate all of your input and encouragement throughout the project.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: Maritime on Sep 05, 2013, 09:17:57
Wow, that turned out awsome John. Need sunglasses to cut the glare or at least a tinted visor.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: Joon-yah on Sep 05, 2013, 10:12:15
I would've done the same,lol. way too pretty to scratch it up!!! Beautiful work man.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Sep 05, 2013, 21:10:51
Got the uni's on, fit perfect.  I was going to run without filters but with no rear tyre hugger I might have some issues.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Sep 06, 2013, 19:05:27
Decided to work on a cowl around the headlights.  Now I can use the same turn signals as the ones on the rear.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Sep 12, 2013, 21:53:31
Big day today, fired the mean machine up for the first time it started first kick :)  Had to shut it down sharpish because the oil wasn't feeding to the engine for some reason.  Also smoked the garage out had to evacuate until it cleared, fortunately the Mrs wasn't home ;D   Pipes sound awesome though.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: clem on Sep 12, 2013, 22:45:34
I was wondering when you would light this thing up. Hope you get the oil pump figured out soon. Did you have premix the tank for the first startup?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Sep 12, 2013, 23:32:38
I was wondering when you would light this thing up. Hope you get the oil pump figured out soon. Did you have premix the tank for the first startup?

No premix but plenty of oil around all the bearings and down the bores when assembling the engine (hence the smoke).  Originally I wanted to run the bike on premix (my prefered method) but was told that the crankshaft bearing would not get lubricated properly.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: teazer on Sep 13, 2013, 00:42:06
Without a video it didn't happen :-) 

Translation: we want to see and hear it too.

Congrats on getting this far.  Now the fine tuning begins.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: clem on Sep 13, 2013, 08:55:35
Reason that I asked was that I have read its a good idea to premix the first tank in case the pump does not work. Kinda like a plan "b".
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: bradj on Sep 13, 2013, 09:19:01
Suzuki's oil to the crank bearing so the pump is a must clem
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: clem on Sep 13, 2013, 10:43:35
Suzuki's oil to the crank bearing so the pump is a must clem
Them damn kamakazie pilots.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: cobraace2 on Sep 13, 2013, 14:58:15
WOW looks great very impressive and inspirational  ;)   oh get over to bike of the month you deserve it ;D
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Sep 14, 2013, 19:49:46
Well I tried bleeding the oil pump today but no go, can't believe there is an issue with it as it was working fine before.  Guess I'll have to pull it out and take a look.  Also, I think possibly that some of the transmission oil has seeped into the crankcases because the smoke that billowed out when I fired it up was whitish and it didn't smell like 2 stroke oil so I will have to investigate that as well.  Not what I was hoping for.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: cobraace2 on Sep 15, 2013, 11:02:36
John that oil pump will not work with clutch pulled in just in case you did not know. 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Sep 19, 2013, 00:15:50
John that oil pump will not work with clutch pulled in just in case you did not know. 

Ok thanks!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Sep 19, 2013, 00:17:38
Grinding to a standstill here, took the oil pump off and can't see anything obviously wrong.  Not sure what to do now, maybe i'll buy a used pump if I can find one.
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: Walms on Sep 19, 2013, 08:11:18
Can you bench test the pump with a drill?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: clem on Sep 19, 2013, 08:15:15
John,
I was thinking about this thing on the way to work this am. Did you buy the oil tank with the vented cap?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Sep 19, 2013, 19:28:22
Andrew, yes I can probably try doing the drill test on the bench.  However I did fire the bike up again today and while it was idling (the pump is spinning pretty fast at idle on the choke) I pushed the lever forward on the pump and still no oil flow >:(

Clem, yes I have the vented cap but a good call ;)  I even tried it with the cap completely off which makes no difference.

I am going to take the pump off again but I really don't see what I can do with it.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: clem on Sep 19, 2013, 21:19:44
Well I hope that you find a good used one for cheap. I know that it has to be lame to get this far and have something like this spring up.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: bradj on Sep 19, 2013, 23:47:47
I can LEND you mine long enuff to figure out your problem
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: Powderfinger on Sep 20, 2013, 08:03:05
You probably have seen it but there is a seal kit on ebay for $20.00.

Is there a way to prime it? Pumps in general can be finicky to get started.

Are you sure it's not sucking air on the inlet side?

BTW beautiful bike, just awesome! 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: teazer on Sep 20, 2013, 11:21:22
Rebuild it with new seals and then prime it manually by force feeding oil in to the inlet port.

http://www.oldjapanesebikes.com/mraxl_GT_Resource/External_T500_Links.html  shows the pump and seals.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Sep 20, 2013, 12:32:23
I will get the seal kit and rebuild it then.  Richard thanks for the link to the exploded view.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Sep 20, 2013, 12:34:02
I can LEND you mine long enuff to figure out your problem

I appreciate the offer Brad thanks, but right now I am going to get the seal kit to see if that will take care of it.  If not I might take you up on the offer!!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Sep 20, 2013, 13:46:57
Let us know how the rebuild kit works.  If needed I think I have an extra one.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: zooke581 on Sep 20, 2013, 14:33:31
I have lots of pumps.  Need one?  I have never had a problem with one yet.  Have had some stripped out thpugh.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Sep 20, 2013, 16:19:01
I have lots of pumps.  Need one?  I have never had a problem with one yet.  Have had some stripped out thpugh.

Thanks Eric, I'll let you know if I need one.  I am a bit baffled because everywhere I've looked people are saying they are more or less indistructable, never had issues with them.  I am going to take it off again today and take the whole thing apart to see what's going on.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Sep 21, 2013, 21:09:05
Sill no bueno on the pump, I stripped it down completely to make sure nothing is blocked inside.  I have the seal kit on order but tomorrow I am going to try Teazers suggestion to force oil through the pump to get it bled out.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Sep 21, 2013, 21:11:07
Got the front cowl finished with the turn signals in.  All wiring is done now, the only thing that is not working is the horn for some reason.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: DreadRock on Sep 21, 2013, 21:56:13
Dam nice work man ......
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: 50gary on Sep 21, 2013, 23:53:46
John, about the oil pump, I'm certainly no expert but I'm reading an article in "Classic Bike" (the English magazine September 2013 issue) right now and it says "According to Pete O'Dell (Suzuki T-500/GT500 expert) another common mistake is to overlook fitting the two washers needed to space out the oil pump drive.  Without these, the pump well seize or the drive will be damaged."  This fellow was a mechanic for Barry Sheene so he might know something?  Best of luck figuring it out. 
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: mAd mOrdigan on Sep 22, 2013, 01:50:15
Got my seat/tail polished, it looks better in real life than in the pics.  I didn't polish the parts where the pad will go.

that all looks real good!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: teazer on Sep 23, 2013, 12:18:53
John, about the oil pump, I'm certainly no expert but I'm reading an article in "Classic Bike" (the English magazine September 2013 issue) right now and it says "According to Pete O'Dell (Suzuki T-500/GT500 expert) another common mistake is to overlook fitting the two washers needed to space out the oil pump drive.  Without these, the pump well seize or the drive will be damaged."  This fellow was a mechanic for Barry Sheene so he might know something?  Best of luck figuring it out. 
  Cheers, 50gary

Pete knows his stuff for sure.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: Michigandude on Sep 25, 2013, 01:16:26
Looks like the IRON MAN if you add some red haha
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Sep 25, 2013, 21:17:33
Looks like the IRON MAN if you add some red haha

Haha, I knew someone would figure out that I am Tony Stark!!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: keeweenz on Sep 25, 2013, 22:27:02
Noooo! I've read to the end and now I have to wait in real time for the awesomeness to evolve!
Seriously though, Thanks for the great reading so far and congrats the bike looks amazing. I hope the oil pump issue is an easy fix.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (The Build Up Begins!)
Post by: johnu on Sep 26, 2013, 19:24:03
Got my custom front brake lines today, made to my specs... and they fit perfect!  Still waiting for the oil pump seal kit to arrive.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: JustinLonghorn on Sep 27, 2013, 22:04:20
Yep. The business right there.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: johnu on Oct 01, 2013, 21:37:07
Oil pump still no go >:(  I installed the new seals and O rings put the pump back on and still not working.  Next I hooked up the old oil tank that has a non return valve on it to see if that was the issue, still not working.  Then I went with Teazers suggestion and tried forcing oil through the pump while the pump was turning, still not working!!!!

Eric, could you pm me a price for a used pump please.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: teazer on Oct 02, 2013, 02:33:24
Are the check valves opening or are the lines clogged?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: cobraace2 on Oct 02, 2013, 11:01:50
Oil pump still no go >:(  I installed the new seals and O rings put the pump back on and still not working.  Next I hooked up the old oil tank that has a non return valve on it to see if that was the issue, still not working.  Then I went with Teazers suggestion and tried forcing oil through the pump while the pump was turning, still not working!!!!

Eric, could you pm me a price for a used pump please.

John I can send you a working pump I am in Bay Area let me know . I just can't believe a Suzuki pump not working  ??? 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: johnu on Oct 03, 2013, 17:46:02
Are the check valves opening or are the lines clogged?

I cannot even get the pump to prime, there is no oil supply to the distribution lines.  The line going in is clear with good flow.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: johnu on Oct 03, 2013, 19:07:21
John I can send you a working pump I am in Bay Area let me know . I just can't believe a Suzuki pump not working  ??? 

Ok thanks.  I am going to play around a little more but I will contact you if I need the pump.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: johnu on Oct 10, 2013, 17:20:49
Pump on it's way from Zookie (foc thanks!).  Small update got my mirror on with brake fluid reservior attached to the same bracket, I like simple and light!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: Brodie on Oct 10, 2013, 21:59:03
Nice mount, but isn't all you will see your arm and wrist?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: johnu on Oct 11, 2013, 00:19:54
Nice mount, but isn't all you will see your arm and wrist?

I knew someone would say that!  You would be totally surprised if you tried it, there is no real obstruction at all.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: sparkymoto on Oct 11, 2013, 01:23:33
Pump on it's way from Zookie (foc thanks!).

Praying that the pump Zookie sent across the country will breathe...er... "pump" the life back into this masterpiece. The suspense is killing us all.

Good luck man!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: neanyoe on Oct 11, 2013, 05:40:44
wow, inevitable build of the month or what.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: johnu on Oct 16, 2013, 22:09:06
Can you believe it, after all the work I did building my gas tank the petcock is leaking.  That'll teach me to buy the el cheapo ebay petcock >:(
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: 50gary on Oct 16, 2013, 23:36:47
I hate petcocks in general.  I now use Pingel. They're worth a look.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: johnu on Oct 17, 2013, 00:14:17
I hate petcocks in general.  I now use Pingel. They're worth a look.
  Cheers, 50gary

Gary, I think they are the petcock of choice for custom bike builders and racers.  I will not skimp in this department again!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: johnu on Oct 21, 2013, 19:10:25
I ended up buying a new rear tyre, a 150.  My trimmed down 160 was still a tad too wide and the chain was rubbing it slightly.

Zookie sent me an oil pump but the UPS truck that was carrying it caught fire so he will kindly be sending me another!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: two-smoker on Oct 21, 2013, 19:13:38
Damn if that ain't some bad luck....
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: Big-D on Oct 21, 2013, 19:55:40
You cant catch a break on that damn oil pump!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Oct 23, 2013, 01:49:25
It's almost as bad as Ichiban's carb part, sorry to hear.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: johnu on Oct 23, 2013, 13:31:43
Hoping to get the pump this week!  I have to have the bike done by November 14, that's when my son comes home from flight deck training.  I promised him it would be ready for him to test ride it then.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: clem on Oct 23, 2013, 21:28:47
John, I hope that this time it works out for you. I'm looking forward to a running video!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: johnu on Oct 25, 2013, 18:14:20
Still no pump yet :(  Getting bored so I built another m/c work table, I don't like bending over working on bikes anymore :)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: teazer on Oct 25, 2013, 18:24:56
John,

Are you sure the old pump is FUBAR.  Did you try attaching it to an oil tank and run it on a power drill to see if it pumps without all the lines and check valves?

Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: johnu on Oct 25, 2013, 19:52:25
John,

Are you sure the old pump is FUBAR.  Did you try attaching it to an oil tank and run it on a power drill to see if it pumps without all the lines and check valves?

No, will do that now!


Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: cobraace2 on Oct 26, 2013, 10:56:23
John,

Are you sure the old pump is FUBAR.  Did you try attaching it to an oil tank and run it on a power drill to see if it pumps without all the lines and check valves?

I agree never seen a bad one  :-\ if there is any amount of air in there it will not work :'(  what I do is #1 all lines must be loose including the one from the tank ,when oil is present at pump tighten that line #2 run with pump cable pulled wide open till oil is coming out of banjo bolts tighten those #3 run again and watch the oil move down the lines till it comes out of the last banjo,s  done ;D this takes some time  >:( never used a drill could be faster and you don't have to run the engine  ;) 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: johnu on Oct 26, 2013, 22:39:02
I agree never seen a bad one  :-\ if there is any amount of air in there it will not work :'(  what I do is #1 all lines must be loose including the one from the tank ,when oil is present at pump tighten that line #2 run with pump cable pulled wide open till oil is coming out of banjo bolts tighten those #3 run again and watch the oil move down the lines till it comes out of the last banjo,s  done ;D this takes some time  >:( never used a drill could be faster and you don't have to run the engine  ;) 

Thanks I will try that.  I have been bleeding the pipe to the pump then trying to bleed through the end of the pump, by loosing the 17mm brass bolt in the end of the pump, this is what is says in the manual and it was successful when i did it about a year or so ago but nothing now.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: johnu on Oct 31, 2013, 14:37:02
Well my pump still hasn't arrived so i am going to try the other suggestions offered here.  First I have to clean the carb from my KTM as it is running as rough as a Rhino's backside.  It's a nightmare working on this carb I hate it.  Also got some new Ultegra shift levers and new cables to install on my road bike.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: 50gary on Oct 31, 2013, 16:33:36
John, I didn't know you were also a cyclist?  I ride quite a bit and love it.  I'm a Campagnolo guy though.  I would love to try the electric shifting groupo. 
   The carburetor look's intimidating; Keihin?  I'm looking for an affordable PWK 38 Keihin for my current project.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: Walms on Oct 31, 2013, 16:42:02
These guys have the best price that I've found  on Keihins...

http://www.jetsrus.com
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: johnu on Oct 31, 2013, 16:43:57
John, I didn't know you were also a cyclist?  I ride quite a bit and love it.  I'm a Campagnolo guy though.  I would love to try the electric shifting groupo. 
   The carburetor look's intimidating; Keihin?  I'm looking for an affordable PWK 38 Keihin for my current project.
  Cheers, 50gary

Yes I'm a cyclist, I just bought the Ultegra 6700 shifters from a friend who switched over to sram red.  I currently have Ultegra 6600 on my Scott Addict.  I have been a long time mountain biker, I started road riding to do triathlons about 10 years ago.  No more triathlons though as my knee is worn out!

A friend of mine has the electric shifters and they work really well.

With the Keihin it never seems that I get it totally cleaned out properly, this time I am going to take my time with it and make sure everything is perfect before reinstalling it.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: 50gary on Oct 31, 2013, 19:15:48
For the best carburetor cleaning I feel the ultrasonic is the way to go.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: johnu on Nov 11, 2013, 18:39:29
For the best carburetor cleaning I feel the ultrasonic is the way to go.
  Cheers, 50gary

Not sure how to go about ultrasonic cleaning.  I soaked all my jets and needle in choke cleaner this weekend and then blew everything out with compressed air and it is running as sweet as a nut now:)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: johnu on Nov 11, 2013, 18:41:22
Worked on the oil pump a bit today, rigged it up on the bench and used a drill to turn it.  I can get a ton of oil to come out of the #1 port just by cracking the banjo.  I get a little bit out of the #2 & 3 ports and very little out of the #4 bleed nut when turning it with the drill.  I remember when I had the bike running when I first reassembled the engine that the oil pour out of the #4 bleed nut just by kicking the engine over.

Question; how do I fill the oil lines from the pump to the engine before i connect it all up?  I don't see an easy way to do it because of the banjos on the ends.  Do I even need to fill them with oil?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: WIESEL on Nov 11, 2013, 18:43:22
Son of a gun! !  Thought I was gonna see some pics of progress.
I am trying to be patient, the deadline is approaching.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: johnu on Nov 11, 2013, 19:01:52
I have one week to get it on the road, that's when my son gets back from A school Navy training!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: 50gary on Nov 11, 2013, 19:21:55
John, I would use a large horse syringe (available at a veterinarian supply) or a small glue syringe to prime the lines, I use them to fill brake lines prior to bleeding. 
Best of luck.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: cobraace2 on Nov 12, 2013, 13:48:33
OK John first thing this is a killer build next  you got the hard part done  ;D I use an old oil pump can like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Vintage-Oilers-Oil-Cans-Aluminum-Globemaster-Blue-and-Tan-Pump-Spouts-/261324267553?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd823e021  hold line vertical and fill it   ;) the one I use I got brand new from Cornell tool truck in god I am getting  old  :'(
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: johnu on Nov 12, 2013, 16:52:10
OK John first thing this is a killer build next  you got the hard part done  ;D I use an old oil pump can like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Vintage-Oilers-Oil-Cans-Aluminum-Globemaster-Blue-and-Tan-Pump-Spouts-/261324267553?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd823e021  hold line vertical and fill it   ;) the one I use I got brand new from Cornell tool truck in god I am getting  old  :'(

My dad probably has a dozen of those oil cans in his garage (in the UK) but over here in the US I rarely ever see them!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: johnu on Nov 12, 2013, 16:55:03
YESSSSS!!! Oil pump is working.  I have oil flowing through three of the four lines, I think there must be some kind of blockage in the fourth so I will be looking into that this afternoon.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: bradj on Nov 12, 2013, 17:21:19
My man  8)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: johnu on Nov 12, 2013, 18:59:06
Well there is no blockage that I can see in the #4 oil line but the oil barely flows through this one compared to the rest.  I think I will just run it as it is :P
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: bradj on Nov 12, 2013, 19:17:53
Are you using early cases
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: johnu on Nov 12, 2013, 19:27:15
No, it's a 1975 GT500 bottom end.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: worldcafe on Nov 12, 2013, 20:48:00
Make sure you check the glue seals around each of the check valves where they attach to the plastic line.  I had problems with mine and it turned out there was a leak in the seal.  I used 5 minute epoxy around all the glued areas and it was fixed. 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: johnu on Nov 13, 2013, 01:26:21
Make sure you check the glue seals around each of the check valves where they attach to the plastic line.  I had problems with mine and it turned out there was a leak in the seal.  I used 5 minute epoxy around all the glued areas and it was fixed. 

Thanks for the tip!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: johnu on Nov 13, 2013, 01:28:12
Gonna fire the brute up tomorrow :)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: teazer on Nov 13, 2013, 01:29:21
Video please... :)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: johnu on Nov 13, 2013, 20:51:50
No video today, she started up on one cylinder then quit.  I need new plugs. :(
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: sparkymoto on Nov 14, 2013, 14:46:41
Johnu's agenda for today: Get plugs. Make wheelies. Post video on DTT  :o
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Almost Done!)
Post by: johnu on Nov 14, 2013, 15:05:36
Ok peeps, I took some video with my phone it is 4.2mb I assume I have to resize it somehow to post it.  How do I do that???"
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (Video Almost!)
Post by: Rich Ard on Nov 14, 2013, 16:40:42
Upload to YouTube, paste the link here. Site takes care of the embedding.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Video Almost!)
Post by: johnu on Nov 14, 2013, 17:42:27
Upload to YouTube, paste the link here. Site takes care of the embedding.
Thx
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Video Almost!)
Post by: johnu on Nov 14, 2013, 20:32:50
Ok not sure how I do this but here is the link to my youtube video http://youtu.be/BdIUBZp2guo  there is a problem with the bike, there is oil coming out of the exhausts.  It looks like engine oil has gotten into the crankcase somehow, I will try to drain it then see what is going on.  I may have over filled the engine or it could be a bad seal thats leaking although I changed all of the seals when I did the bottom end.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Video!)
Post by: johnu on Nov 14, 2013, 20:38:52
Johnu's agenda for today: Get plugs. Make wheelies. Post video on DTT  :o

Plugs - check, video - check, wheelies - maybe next time!!  This bike will do awesome stoppies as well with the Ninja brakes!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Video!)
Post by: sparkymoto on Nov 14, 2013, 20:39:53
Golly! Music to our ears John. Awesome!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Video!)
Post by: Big-D on Nov 14, 2013, 20:45:02
Its ALIVE!!! Glad you were able to get the pump working finally.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Video!)
Post by: 50gary on Nov 14, 2013, 21:10:50
Good for you John, well done.
Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Video!)
Post by: stroker crazy on Nov 14, 2013, 21:22:56
Smokin'!

(and that is an understatement)

Crazy
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (Video!)
Post by: worldcafe on Nov 14, 2013, 21:25:05
is the oil coming from around the exhaust spigots attached to the cylinders?  If yes, it could be that you need to seal them with silicone.  Also, you could have one or more check valves stuck open and they are dumping oil into the cylinder, then when you start her up, the oil seeps out of the exhaust ports. 

I had this problem and getting a line with good check valves solved it.

Your pipes sound awesome!!!!!!!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Video!)
Post by: clem on Nov 14, 2013, 21:27:15
Sweet man this is what I've been waitin for. Did you get the oil pump to 100% working.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Video Almost!)
Post by: cobraace2 on Nov 14, 2013, 23:22:48
Ok not sure how I do this but here is the link to my youtube video http://youtu.be/BdIUBZp2guo  there is a problem with the bike, there is oil coming out of the exhausts.  It looks like engine oil has gotten into the crankcase somehow, I will try to drain it then see what is going on.  I may have over filled the engine or it could be a bad seal thats leaking although I changed all of the seals when I did the bottom end.


Looks fine to me just the right amount of smoke  ;D  can you say BOTM  8)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Video!)
Post by: johnu on Nov 15, 2013, 00:30:38
is the oil coming from around the exhaust spigots attached to the cylinders?  If yes, it could be that you need to seal them with silicone.  Also, you could have one or more check valves stuck open and they are dumping oil into the cylinder, then when you start her up, the oil seeps out of the exhaust ports. 

I had this problem and getting a line with good check valves solved it.


Your pipes sound awesome!!!!!!!

Well yes there is a little bit of oil coming out of the spigots because as you say I have not sealed them yet.  But compared to the amount spraying out of the end of the pipes it is nothing.  My truck was right behind the bike and the front is covered in oil now!!

Thanks for the compliment on the sound, I am totally happy with how they sound I love it.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Video!)
Post by: bradj on Nov 15, 2013, 03:25:42
I say ride it at least alittle it sounds good
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Video!)
Post by: Maritime on Nov 15, 2013, 08:51:48
So BOTM is sewn up tight for Dec, what a X-Mass present to have this bike on the banner finally.

Edit:  Brad, you have to wait until after nominations are over to finish any of your bikes, I don't want to have to choose. LOL
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Video!)
Post by: johnu on Nov 15, 2013, 10:30:20
So BOTM is sewn up tight for Dec, what a X-Mass present to have this bike on the banner finally.

Edit:  Brad, you have to wait until after nominations are over to finish any of your bikes, I don't want to have to choose. LOL

Bike isn't quite finished yet, I am having some very subtle graphics made and then all will be revealed.  My friend is a pro photographer he is going to take pics for me.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Video!)
Post by: johnu on Nov 15, 2013, 10:31:33
I say ride it at least alittle it sounds good

I might just do that!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Video!)
Post by: Joon-yah on Nov 15, 2013, 15:30:46
So awesome,it sounds killer!!!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Video!)
Post by: johnu on Nov 17, 2013, 19:58:58
Going to be ready for a test ride tomorrow!!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Video!)
Post by: bradj on Nov 17, 2013, 22:46:50
Botm needs your attention johnu
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Video!)
Post by: stroker crazy on Nov 18, 2013, 00:30:46
Ain't no H*nd* going to beat this bike!

Crazy
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Video!)
Post by: johnu on Nov 18, 2013, 16:59:50
Ok peeps here are some finished pics from my phone.  My photographer friend will be taking the proffesional pics next week.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Video!)
Post by: johnu on Nov 18, 2013, 17:01:12
Hope you like them!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Video!)
Post by: JustinLonghorn on Nov 18, 2013, 17:01:48
Yes. Sir.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: DreadRock on Nov 18, 2013, 17:31:58
Sex machine right there !!!   
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: cobraace2 on Nov 18, 2013, 20:49:34
Holy sh**t you got hot bitch there by the pool with nothing on naked as a Jay bird   ;D
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Nov 18, 2013, 21:00:41
Holy sh**t you got hot bitch there by the pool with nothing on naked as a Jay bird   ;D

Haha you're right :)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: cobraace2 on Nov 18, 2013, 21:16:46
looking at this bike takes me  back to the late 70's on an rd350 lane splitting like a maniac with AC/DC problem child playing in my head  ;D 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY9H0s5sph0
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: axeugene27 on Nov 18, 2013, 23:51:23
Johnny #5
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: 50gary on Nov 18, 2013, 23:51:36
John, outstanding work and design, well worth the effort and for 'us' in the gallery the waiting for the completion.  Is there a front fender in foreseeable future.  Where do we sign up for rides?
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: teazer on Nov 19, 2013, 12:04:11
Nothing short of freaking amazing combination of awesome craftsmanship applied to a neat mix of genres.  A genre bender if ever there was one.

I need to improve my game.  :-)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: peteGS on Nov 20, 2013, 15:43:28
Mate that's just awesome! Killer job!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: 1969Honda on Nov 21, 2013, 14:29:44
I think it is safe to say most of us feel a little like Wayne and Garth.

http://youtu.be/-FucbvoFFy0 (http://youtu.be/-FucbvoFFy0)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: Floegstad on Nov 21, 2013, 14:32:21
Just read thru this whole thread,cant see how i missed out on this AMAZING BIKE! 8) 8)
You got my botm vote for sure!!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Nov 21, 2013, 18:24:45
Thanks for all of the kind words :)  Also thank you to all those giving advice and encouragement during the build, you guys probably saved me some serious headaches with some of your suggestions.  For sure right at the begining of the build Richard (Teazer) suggested that I take a deeper look at the geometery I was hoping to achieve and how I was going to get there.  It turned out that I could get what I wanted just by playing with swingarm angle and pivot point along with shorter forks (instead of cutting off the steering head and rewelding it).  Also thanks to Teazer for a lot of technical help on the exhaust design.  Eric Kalamaja of sundial motorsports for the porting (still to be tested) and tech info on the engine.  Junior pushed me towards polishing the alloy tank and seat instead of painting it (I am not a bling person typically but I am now glad I polished the alloy).  Gary for confirming my desire to use modern suspension and modern sportbike geometery.   Roc City for info on building my alloy tank. The rest of you guys (you know who you are) that had better ideas than I did for certain things.

Hoping to test ride the thing tomorrow if the rain lets up, will get more video too!  My son is home on leave from the Navy and he is itching to ride it, he started this thing with me almost 3 years ago.  When she runs well enough I will get it out to a trackday to see if I can kick some sport bike booty ;)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: bradj on Nov 21, 2013, 20:05:14
I love it its gonna make a great banner. I predict back to back smokers
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: danejurrous on Nov 21, 2013, 20:21:27
Been a month since I was last on here, holy hell that is gorgeous!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: stroker crazy on Nov 21, 2013, 20:22:00
I predict back to back smokers

I have no problem with that!

Crazy
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Nov 22, 2013, 14:44:37
This bike is so inspiring!

Brian
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Nov 26, 2013, 20:07:32
Money shot ;)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: axeugene27 on Nov 26, 2013, 20:43:07
the exhaust is positively wicked i want one for my bike.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: Floegstad on Nov 26, 2013, 22:37:38
AAAaaaawesooome photo. 8)
Made me a new desktop.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: 50gary on Nov 26, 2013, 23:48:49
Ready for TV.  Super cool.  Ride report card due soon.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: vibration on Nov 27, 2013, 15:14:07
Nice expansions...
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Nov 27, 2013, 18:17:50
Well I am in the botm competition so I would apprecaite your votes if you like the bike!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: bobminkwell on Nov 27, 2013, 21:12:23
Well I am in the botm competition so I would apprecaite your votes if you like the bike!

i predict a botm win in your future john, sweet build. out of interest where did that taillight come from? i was looking for a similar unit for my build but couldnt find one with those dimensions, ended up with something a bit different that is sort-of what i wanted
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Nov 27, 2013, 21:29:06
i predict a botm win in your future john, sweet build. out of interest where did that taillight come from? i was looking for a similar unit for my build but couldnt find one with those dimensions, ended up with something a bit different that is sort-of what i wanted

Thanks.  The light came from your friendly ebay!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: worldcafe on Nov 27, 2013, 23:06:28
This is by far the best looking T500 I have ever seen.  Great work John.  Now go out and burn the numbers off those new tires!!!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: axeugene27 on Nov 28, 2013, 10:41:20
just curious if you figured out why the oil is getting into the exhaust? Thing was smoking like crazy in that video.  Did it work itself out after getting her nice and warm rode a few miles. ?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: teddpage on Nov 28, 2013, 11:22:16
Its a 2 stroke...they mix oil with gas to keep things lubricated...its supposed to smoke

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: axeugene27 on Nov 28, 2013, 12:01:52
I own one you don't premix. My titan doesn't smoke unless there is an issue. I just wonder if that is an effect of the upgraded exhaust/ porting etc.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: Zookrocker on Nov 28, 2013, 12:30:45
Got my vote!  really sweet machine man!  lots of beautiful, hard work in this thing.  It payed off
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: teledan on Nov 28, 2013, 14:27:37
Its a 2 stroke...they mix oil with gas to keep things lubricated...its supposed to smoke

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk 2

Look at the video he posted on the 14th.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Nov 28, 2013, 14:45:14
Most of the smoke came from me be over zealous with the oil can when I assembled the engine, I always coat everthing inside with two stroke oil, think I got a bit carried away this time!  Ran it again yesterday and she is much less smokey.  It is still way too rich though I will be picking up a selection of jets next week.  You will get a little smoke from most two strokes though.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: axeugene27 on Nov 28, 2013, 17:31:18
That exhaust does sound awesome johnu did you design and fabricate it is like to get a set for my titan and really like how they come right under the bike
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Nov 28, 2013, 17:38:19
That exhaust does sound awesome johnu did you design and fabricate it is like to get a set for my titan and really like how they come right under the bike

Somebody did the actual calculations based on the porting and carbs I am using.  I did do the design and fabrication.  If you run the pipes under the frame of course you can't have a center stand!  Other members on here (Clem, Bradj and Walms) are also making or have made there own expansions.

Dave Swarbrick makes pipes that go underneath the frame, which is what i based mine on.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Nov 30, 2013, 15:41:42
Ready for TV.  Super cool.  Ride report card due soon.
  Cheers, 50gary

Gary, first ride was short, jetting needs sorting it is still way too rich.  I have to go and buy a selection of jets.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: 50gary on Nov 30, 2013, 21:57:47
Just joking, but it may be time for an Avatar "update"?
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Dec 01, 2013, 12:35:55
I think your right about the avatar Gary!

Maybe I'll crop this photo to use.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: 1969Honda on Dec 01, 2013, 13:50:19
Why not just duplicate your avatar with the new bike ;D
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Dec 01, 2013, 16:13:28
Why not just duplicate your avatar with the new bike ;D

I will be trying, not so easy to "back it in" on a two stroke though;)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: peteGS on Dec 02, 2013, 15:41:41
You have my vote for BOTM John  ;D
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Dec 02, 2013, 16:32:54
You have my vote for BOTM John  ;D
Thx:)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: HollywoodMX on Dec 03, 2013, 11:11:45
Took me a few days to read this thread. The build and the bike are bad ass! The aluminum work is outstanding.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: Floegstad on Dec 03, 2013, 14:30:00
My vote as well. 8)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Dec 03, 2013, 16:48:35
Took me a few days to read this thread. The build and the bike are bad ass! The aluminum work is outstanding.

Thx.
Title: Re: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: HollywoodMX on Dec 03, 2013, 23:23:50
Thx.

What tools do you use for your sheet metal work?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Dec 03, 2013, 23:44:47
What tools do you use for your sheet metal work?

All hand tools hammers and mallets, home made dollies, shrinking fork, piece of oak with a depression in it used as a shrinking puck, homemade slapper,  tin snips.  I also have a 12" harbor freight slip roll for the exhaust cones.  I form metal around anything I have laying around in my garage that will work.
Title: Re: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: HollywoodMX on Dec 04, 2013, 19:46:06
All hand tools hammers and mallets, home made dollies, shrinking fork, piece of oak with a depression in it used as a shrinking puck, homemade slapper,  tin snips.  I also have a 12" harbor freight slip roll for the exhaust cones.  I form metal around anything I have laying around in my garage that will work.

Lol. I only know what half of that stuff is..
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Dec 05, 2013, 10:22:41
Haha, go on youtube if you need help with any sheet metal work you can find video for all kinds of metal work on there.  Of course ask questions here first to get pointed in the right direction though.  I have done a lot of fab work in my time but I still ask questions :)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Dec 05, 2013, 15:07:12
Well, you have done fantastic work, you are a true craftsman, respect to you :)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Dec 05, 2013, 16:44:59
Thanks, it was a lot of work but I got the bike I envisioned in the end :)
Title: Re: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: HollywoodMX on Dec 06, 2013, 14:13:21
Thanks, it was a lot of work but I got the bike I envisioned in the end :)

That's the best part. I do a half ass sketch (cause I can't draw) of what I want the bike to look like before starting to see how close I can get to it. It's very rewarding when the actual matches the vision.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: BicycleBobe on Dec 07, 2013, 12:20:49
Fantastic build, great photos through out really inspiring me to get started back on my t500 build.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Dec 11, 2013, 19:56:58
No more test rides yet, the oil pump is still bugging me so I am going to get another one to try just to be safe.  Don't want to run short of oil :-\
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: 50gary on Dec 11, 2013, 22:33:36
John. are you still running the pre-mix as well as the pump?
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Dec 11, 2013, 23:13:22
John. are you still running the pre-mix as well as the pump?
  Cheers, 50gary

Just the pump, but I see air in the oil lines which tells me the pump is not pumping consistantly.  I have another on the way!
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: Walms on Dec 12, 2013, 14:46:51
Air in the oil lines usually means a leak in the banjo fittings somewhere on the inlet side. I assume it is a positive displacement pump?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Dec 12, 2013, 17:25:23
Air in the oil lines usually means a leak in the banjo fittings somewhere on the inlet side. I assume it is a positive displacement pump?

Thanks, will check that out!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: cobraace2 on Dec 13, 2013, 08:53:36
John over the years I have seen many problems with check valves ,banjos , and oil tank vent yes the vent was  plugged and drove me crazy  :o never had a pump go bad I did change a few never fixed my problem ::)
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: Walms on Dec 13, 2013, 09:23:11
If you do use the aluminum crush washers, they are really only meant as a 1 time use only.
Stato seals (Parker product) are a nice upgrade to eliminate banjo leakage problems.

Your bike looks bloody insane btw! Nice job John!
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: Walms on Dec 13, 2013, 09:23:42
If you do use the aluminum crush washers, they are really only meant as a 1 time use only.
Stato seals (Parker product) are a nice upgrade to eliminate banjo leakage problems.

Your bike looks bloody insane btw! Nice job John!
Title: Re: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: HollywoodMX on Dec 14, 2013, 02:56:29
If you do use the aluminum crush washers, they are really only meant as a 1 time use only.
Stato seals (Parker product) are a nice upgrade to eliminate banjo leakage problems.

Your bike looks bloody insane btw! Nice job John!

Could use copper. Just a little heat then reuse
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Dec 20, 2013, 20:08:12
Ok guys I got another oil pump and it works like a champ :) :) :)  I siliconed the pipes into the exhaust stubs because it leaked around there, which I knew it would.  Tomorrow will be test ride day ;)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: clem on Dec 20, 2013, 21:54:51
Great news John. I'm glad it worked out.
Title: Re: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: HollywoodMX on Dec 21, 2013, 02:53:35
Ok guys I got another oil pump and it works like a champ :) :) :)  I siliconed the pipes into the exhaust stubs because it leaked around there, which I knew it would.  Tomorrow will be test ride day ;)

Video!!!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Dec 23, 2013, 23:28:47
Making progress, rode the bike a little today but still not ready for video yet ;)  It's been a long time since I rode a two stroke street bike, I am loving it already :)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: 50gary on Dec 23, 2013, 23:50:39
Merry Christmas, heh heh.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: Zookrocker on Dec 25, 2013, 13:21:01
Making progress, rode the bike a little today but still not ready for video yet ;)  It's been a long time since I rode a two stroke street bike, I am loving it already :)

Envious of this...I have never owned/ridden a smoker street bike.  If I ever find a T500, I'm gonna be all over it!!
Title: Re: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: HollywoodMX on Dec 25, 2013, 19:46:33
Making progress, rode the bike a little today but still not ready for video yet ;)  It's been a long time since I rode a two stroke street bike, I am loving it already :)

Ya I'm thinking I need one in my collection. I had a enduro 2t buts it's not the Just same. I worry about those flakey oil pumps that plague many Street 2t's. 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: stroker crazy on Dec 25, 2013, 20:27:19
I've had many (Yamaha mainly) strokers; never had trouble with an oil pump!

Crazy
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: Zookrocker on Dec 25, 2013, 20:56:43
I've had many (Yamaha mainly) strokers; never had trouble with an oil pump!

Crazy

can you nix the pump and run premix in these?
Title: Re: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: HollywoodMX on Dec 26, 2013, 03:17:25
can you nix the pump and run premix in these?

Yup. You either Disable or delete the oil pump. 
Title: Re: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: cobraace2 on Dec 26, 2013, 11:14:16
Yup. You either Disable or delete the oil pump.


OH NO you should not do that the crank bearings will not last  :(  the oil injection system on a Suzuki is the best of the big four and very reliable  8) more reliable than the info on there failures  ;D
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: cobraace2 on Dec 26, 2013, 11:22:02
Hey Hollywood is that your TC can you post some pics  ;) been looking for one for years to complete my turbo bike collection but hard to find one at a price I can handle  :'(   
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: teazer on Dec 26, 2013, 12:43:53
can you nix the pump and run premix in these?

On a Yamaha twin you can, but not on Suzukis.  Suzuki fit small metal disks on the crank which act as oil slingers to get oil into the big ends.  When the pump is missing, those steel disks act as shields and prevent oil mist from getting into the bearings.  To run a Suzuki on pre-mix you have to strip and modify the crankshaft first and then drill the crankcases to get oil into the big eds.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: cobraace2 on Dec 26, 2013, 12:48:07
On a Yamaha twin you can, but not on Suzukis.  Suzuki fit small metal disks on the crank which act as oil slingers to get oil into the big ends.  When the pump is missing, those steel disks act as shields and prevent oil mist from getting into the bearings.  To run a Suzuki on pre-mix you have to strip and modify the crankshaft first and then drill the crankcases to get oil into the big eds.

    Exactly  teazer and kawis also  ;)
Title: Re: Re: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: HollywoodMX on Dec 26, 2013, 15:10:47

OH NO you should not do that the crank bearings will not last  :(  the oil injection system on a Suzuki is the best of the big four and very reliable  8) more reliable than the info on there failures  ;D

My bad then. I know on the older dirt bikes with oil injection you could disable it.

Hey Hollywood is that your TC can you post some pics  ;) been looking for one for years to complete my turbo bike collection but hard to find one at a price I can handle  :'(

I don't have a TC. Would be nice though. I have a kz1000 with rare drouin kit.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: bananaclip on Dec 28, 2013, 10:35:20
Fantastic bike!  Damn it looks killer bro.   :o
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Jan 01, 2014, 14:32:11
Fantastic bike!  Damn it looks killer bro.   :o
Thx
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Jan 03, 2014, 13:01:47
I just ordered a bunch of copper washers for all of my oil lines still can't get rid of the air bubbles.  I wish these 500's could run on premix (that was my original plan until advised not to).
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: teazer on Jan 03, 2014, 13:25:11
Try Stat-O-Seals from Grainger or your local supply store.  Are you sure that the banjo check valves are sealing properly and not allowing crankcase pressure to push oil and air back up teh lines?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: cobraace2 on Jan 03, 2014, 22:46:01
John is your oil tank vented?
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: worldcafe on Jan 04, 2014, 02:24:10
Go with the stat seals Teazer recomended.  I use them on mine.  Have you checked the lines for potential holes where they are glued to the banjos and check valves?  There are 6 potential leak connections on each line in the glued sections. 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: burnicarus on Jan 09, 2014, 14:55:21
Love this bike!!!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Jan 09, 2014, 21:45:53
John is your oil tank vented?

It is!  I am going to get some of those Stat o Seals for the banjo's.
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: Walms on Jan 09, 2014, 23:18:46
They'll last a lifetime on a 2 stroke! :D
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Jan 10, 2014, 11:12:31
They'll last a lifetime on a 2 stroke! :D

Haha yes!  My copper washers arrived so I will try them while I wait for the Stat o Seals to arrive.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Jan 11, 2014, 19:37:16
Yes!!! Finally I have the lubrication system working correctly :)  Now to work on the jetting which is not my strong point but I'll get it figured out ;)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: clem on Jan 11, 2014, 20:48:14
Good news.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: teazer on Jan 11, 2014, 23:34:36
So now we get to see horn monos and backing it into corners type video.  Y E S....
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: buzznichols on Jan 11, 2014, 23:44:45
Fantastic build.  Wow.  Just, wow.
Title: Re: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: HollywoodMX on Jan 14, 2014, 03:22:56
Yes!!! Finally I have the lubrication system working correctly :)  Now to work on the jetting which is not my strong point but I'll get it figured out ;)

I'm pretty knowledgeable with jetting.  What carbs you have? What's the bike doing? Carbs minty clean inside? Are they syncd? Do they have a choke?

Always start with tuning the pilot jet and get it starting easy and idling well.  A trick here is using the air adjustment screw to tell you if your rich or lean.

Then does it rev out nice and fast in neutral or does it hesitate or bog, backfire, etc. I then dial in the needle in neutral.  Then I take it for a ride to test on load to fine tune the needle and main further. 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Jan 14, 2014, 19:36:24
I'm pretty knowledgeable with jetting.  What carbs you have? What's the bike doing? Carbs minty clean inside? Are they syncd? Do they have a choke?

Always start with tuning the pilot jet and get it starting easy and idling well.  A trick here is using the air adjustment screw to tell you if your rich or lean.

Then does it rev out nice and fast in neutral or does it hesitate or bog, backfire, etc. I then dial in the needle in neutral.  Then I take it for a ride to test on load to fine tune the needle and main further. 

Ok thanks thats good info, I am just about to give it a go. 

The carbs are brand new VM34 Mikunis with chokes.  It is really rich on the bottom end it feels like there is no pull there but when you get to 3/4 throttle (on the main jet) it clears itself and takes off.  the bike starts easily and will idle but not well.  As soon as you try to rev it though it is really fluffy and not crisp.  I am going to try the airscrews first to see what happens.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Jan 14, 2014, 20:36:10
Well not much success today.  I tried tweaking the airscrew but really it didn't make much difference when I screwed it in or out which is unusual.  The bike will idle reasonably well but it really bogs down when you blip the throttle.  I went out and rode the bike and it really bogs down when you pull away.  It takes until nearly full throttle for it to clear up and run crisp.

Holy cow though does it fly when it clears itself, I had kind of forgotten what two strokes are like since I have been riding 4 stroke supermoto's for ages.  My KTM is about 52hp, with the porting and the expansions on the t500 I was hoping to get 55hp, well this bad boy absolutley will leave the KTM in its dust on acceleration I am sure of it.  The plan is to use this bike for track days, and right now I am thinking it is going to hold its own if I got the frame geometry right!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: 50gary on Jan 14, 2014, 22:03:21
  John, what is the final weight of the bike I'd be interested to know?  If you know of a race car garage or someone that has a set of real weight scales I'd scale the bike alone and with you on it in your track day gear.  That way you'll know your percentages and total.  I do that and it helps for setup.  As far as your jetting Eric of Sundial motosport should be able to pretty much nail it from memory?
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: teazer on Jan 14, 2014, 22:48:40
What jets are in there now?  If they are over the counter 34s, try dropping from 35 to 30 or even 25 and see if that helps.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Jan 15, 2014, 10:25:30
What jets are in there now?  If they are over the counter 34s, try dropping from 35 to 30 or even 25 and see if that helps.

Ok will do:)
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: Walms on Jan 15, 2014, 10:42:00
Hi John, when you say bog, I take that as a lean condition... When idling, wick the throttle, it should rev immediately, any hesitation or bog and it means you need to go richer on the pilot. Change that first then focus on mid throttle and adjust the needle height in this area.
I believe with VM's the idle screw leans as you turn it counter clockwise so start with this setting 1 turn from fully screwed in.
Title: Re: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: HollywoodMX on Jan 15, 2014, 16:23:00
Hi John, when you say bog, I take that as a lean condition... When idling, wick the throttle, it should rev immediately, any hesitation or bog and it means you need to go richer on the pilot. Change that first then focus on mid throttle and adjust the needle height in this area.
I believe with VM's the idle screw leans as you turn it counter clockwise so start with this setting 1 turn from fully screwed in.

Ya John this is good advice. Don't worry about the needle and main jet until you get the pilot and air screw sorted. Pull the choke and set your mixture screw to full rich and go ride the bike. If it rides better save some unusual throttle behavior (because of the choke letting in more air and fuel) then you are lean on the pilot for sure.

If it does run better with the choke, keep the choke in at idle set the mixture screw to full rich and start dialing it back to leaner and see if the RPMs go up. If they don't they your main is off more. If it does its off less. That should help you decide which jets to buy. But if it painfully idles and starts relatively easy it's Probly off by 1 to 3 sizes.

Curious what position is your needle in? On some carbs the needle can effect the pilot a little.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Jan 15, 2014, 19:17:31
I really appreciate all the help thanks :)  I do think I might not be explaining the conditon very well though, when I said it bogs down that was probably not the best description.  When the bike is idling and you blip the throttle it does respond but it seems like its woolly and choked up.  Now, yesterday when I tried it I didn't have the air filters (Uni, long grey foam pods) but I thought today I would try it with them on before I did anything else, this made the condition worse.  With the filters still on I tried riding it with the chokes on but this made it even worse, almost like the plugs were fouled!  I would think this all points to it being rich, what do you think?  I did try starting it with the air screw 1 turn out then turning it out even more when it was idling but it seemed to make no difference.  I know that it should either slow the revs down or speed them up a little.

My pilots right now are 35's and the needle is in the middle position with 260 main jet.  Other people I know with T500's with 34's are running either 35 or 45 pilots and 260 main.  Thing is my bike has very unique pipes and it's ported so that could be a factor. 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Jan 15, 2014, 19:24:49
  John, what is the final weight of the bike I'd be interested to know?  If you know of a race car garage or someone that has a set of real weight scales I'd scale the bike alone and with you on it in your track day gear.  That way you'll know your percentages and total.  I do that and it helps for setup.  As far as your jetting Eric of Sundial motosport should be able to pretty much nail it from memory?
  Cheers, 50gary

Yes I will be weighing the bike at some point, however that's not top priority right now got to getting jetting right  ;)  I would guess that the bike weighs under 300lb just from picking it up to move it in the shop and comparing to my other bikes.  Eric said to just try it with the jetting that comes in the stock new carbs.... a bit vague really.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: teazer on Jan 15, 2014, 20:02:35
Pilot jets are dirt cheap.  Buy a couple of sizes and just try them.  If smaller makes it better, good.  If it makes it worse, you can always try larger ones.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Jan 15, 2014, 20:44:43
Pilot jets are dirt cheap.  Buy a couple of sizes and just try them.  If smaller makes it better, good.  If it makes it worse, you can always try larger ones.

That's kind of what I was thinking too ;)
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: Walms on Jan 15, 2014, 21:01:33
You could always get a quick and dirty weight by weighing front and back separately, just be sure to throw a spacer on the opposite end the same height as the scale.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Jan 15, 2014, 23:10:17
You could always get a quick and dirty weight by weighing front and back separately, just be sure to throw a spacer on the opposite end the same height as the scale.

I may try this while I wait for new jets to arrive ;)
Title: Re: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: HollywoodMX on Jan 16, 2014, 03:12:38
I really appreciate all the help thanks :)  I do think I might not be explaining the conditon very well though, when I said it bogs down that was probably not the best description.  When the bike is idling and you blip the throttle it does respond but it seems like its woolly and choked up.  Now, yesterday when I tried it I didn't have the air filters (Uni, long grey foam pods) but I thought today I would try it with them on before I did anything else, this made the condition worse.  With the filters still on I tried riding it with the chokes on but this made it even worse, almost like the plugs were fouled!  I would think this all points to it being rich, what do you think?  I did try starting it with the air screw 1 turn out then turning it out even more when it was idling but it seemed to make no difference.  I know that it should either slow the revs down or speed them up a little.

My pilots right now are 35's and the needle is in the middle position with 260 main jet.  Other people I know with T500's with 34's are running either 35 or 45 pilots and 260 main.  Thing is my bike has very unique pipes and it's ported so that could be a factor.

Good info. Yes porting can make the jetting harder to dial in. Custom 2t pipes is a completely separate ball game. As far as the filters it's not always a tell tale sign. Some bikes run better with filters or air boxes no matter what you do.

I'm thinking you are lean on the pilot and rich on the main and the needle may need some leaning out. I would get the 40, 43 and 45. I'm leaning more to the 43 being the right one.

Drop the needle to the second last position (closest to the fat end) if that's only 1 step from e middle then put it to the last position. Put the air screw to full rich. Ride again both with choke on and off and let us know how it goes. If you are gaining power everywhere but the top feels like there is more to gain we are on the right path. By that point we can get an idea of what mains to get to try.

Check a plug too for color.

Are the stock carbs the same size as the one you got? What's your elevation?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: cobraace2 on Jan 16, 2014, 11:41:04
John the best advice I can give you is ;D take a short drive to garden grove and see Roger at Wickedatv he is one great tuner and I am sure he can school you 8) give him a call 714-530-2215
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Jan 16, 2014, 19:09:51
John the best advice I can give you is ;D take a short drive to garden grove and see Roger at Wickedatv he is one great tuner and I am sure he can school you 8) give him a call 714-530-2215

I don't give up easily ;D but it might come to that, thanks for the info thats not too far from me!
Title: Re: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: HollywoodMX on Jan 17, 2014, 04:43:04
I don't give up easily ;D but it might come to that, thanks for the info thats not too far from me!

I think you will figure it out with people's help here. I only got good with carb tuning because I was obsessed with it on my yz 250 2t.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Jan 17, 2014, 17:41:24
Ok I just ordered 25's and 45's pilot jets (currently have 35's), that way I can try either going richer or leaner and see what makes a difference then fine tune from there.... hopefully :)
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: Walms on Jan 18, 2014, 08:32:40
John, don't the pilot jets come in increments of 2.5? You might find jumping 4 sizes in 1 change too dramatic.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Jan 18, 2014, 10:27:30
Yes they do but I wanted to make a big jump just to find out which direction to go then scale it back from there.  That's my plan at least, hopefully it's a good plan :)
Title: Re: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: HollywoodMX on Jan 18, 2014, 13:34:06
Yes they do but I wanted to make a big jump just to find out which direction to go then scale it back from there.  That's my plan at least, hopefully it's a good plan :)

Start with the 45. If it starts well and the mixture screw actually does something you're on the right track. If the 25 has a hard time starting, do 2 throttle pumps an try.  If that doesn't work hold the throttle barely open and try. If either of those methods work.  Take out the 25 and don't look back.

If neither of those methods work give up on the 25 cause your either wearing out the starter or your leg trying.. :-)
Title: Re: Re: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: HollywoodMX on Jan 18, 2014, 13:35:50
Did you weigh the bike yet? Despite it feels light of thinking your weight estimation is a little ambitious..

My Buell is 395 and it feels like im moving a bicycle in the garage compared to my kz and gpz.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Jan 19, 2014, 19:40:57
Start with the 45. If it starts well and the mixture screw actually does something you're on the right track. If the 25 has a hard time starting, do 2 throttle pumps an try.  If that doesn't work hold the throttle barely open and try. If either of those methods work.  Take out the 25 and don't look back.

If neither of those methods work give up on the 25 cause your either wearing out the starter or your leg trying.. :-)

Haha thanks for the info, i will get this sorted out with all the help I am getting here.  Its much appreciated!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Jan 24, 2014, 20:24:52
Did you weigh the bike yet? Despite it feels light of thinking your weight estimation is a little ambitious..

My Buell is 395 and it feels like im moving a bicycle in the garage compared to my kz and gpz.


Just weighed each end today 158lb rear and 161lb front so it adds up to 319lb not sure how accurate that is!  I was sure it was lighter than that, my KTM is 228lb and it doesn't feel a lot different ot the Suzuki.  Must be the weight is higher up on the KTM :)
Title: Re: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: HollywoodMX on Jan 25, 2014, 02:09:39
Just weighed each end today 158lb rear and 161lb front so it adds up to 319lb not sure how accurate that is!  I was sure it was lighter than that, my KTM is 228lb and it doesn't feel a lot different ot the Suzuki.  Must be the weight is higher up on the KTM :)

It's probably close enough.. Lol.  Where the weight is is carried makes a big difference an interferes with Human estimating.  The Buell carries it's gas in the frame and the oil in the swingarm then the exhaust under the engine.  It feels like 325 but still is 395 with the overweight v twin.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: clem on Jan 25, 2014, 11:01:38
If I am correct, that's over 100 lbs of weight loss!
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: Walms on Jan 25, 2014, 13:56:50
70 lbs less than my 500... ;)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Jan 31, 2014, 17:46:53
Finally picked up my pilot jets this week :)  Tried the 45's first and it still ran about the same, idle was high though when I started it.  So I put the 25's in and I had to turn the idle up when it started, it ran quite a bit better (with air srew 1.5 turns out).  So next I played with the air screw but it is still very difficult to detect any change in the way the engine is running, it didn't stall or rev up no matter which way I turned the screws.  So I set them at half a turn out and rode it and this made it run worse.  Then I set them at 2.5 turns out and that made it run better than any other setting so far.  It is still not wanting to pull cleanly when you first pull away then suddenly it takes off.  What should I do next to clean it up even more?
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: Walms on Jan 31, 2014, 19:22:21
Check to make sure your coils and motor are grounded well to the iggy.
I had a suspect ground to my coils and the bike would idle fine putt around ok but as soon as the pipe started building pressure, it would fizzle out.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Jan 31, 2014, 19:27:36
Check to make sure your coils and motor are grounded well to the iggy.
I had a suspect ground to my coils and the bike would idle fine putt around ok but as soon as the pipe started building pressure, it would fizzle out.

I will check but they should be ok as I sanded paint off all of the ground points when I built everything up :)  I think I am going to go down one lower on the pilot jet to a 22.5 and see if that makes it better.  I really think that's the right direction, must be worth a try anyway ;D
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: cobraace2 on Feb 01, 2014, 15:00:16
Finally picked up my pilot jets this week :)  Tried the 45's first and it still ran about the same, idle was high though when I started it.  So I put the 25's in and I had to turn the idle up when it started, it ran quite a bit better (with air srew 1.5 turns out).  So next I played with the air screw but it is still very difficult to detect any change in the way the engine is running, it didn't stall or rev up no matter which way I turned the screws.  So I set them at half a turn out and rode it and this made it run worse.  Then I set them at 2.5 turns out and that made it run better than any other setting so far.  It is still not wanting to pull cleanly when you first pull away then suddenly it takes off.  What should I do next to clean it up even more?

Ok John how does it run  above 4000 rpm. If it runs good  maybe you should talk to Eric about how wild he got on the porting ;D As you start to port any 2stroke you start to loose drive ability down low  :(  that's why a lot of guys install reeds to get some of that back
Title: Re: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: HollywoodMX on Feb 03, 2014, 03:51:46
Finally picked up my pilot jets this week :)  Tried the 45's first and it still ran about the same, idle was high though when I started it.  So I put the 25's in and I had to turn the idle up when it started, it ran quite a bit better (with air srew 1.5 turns out).  So next I played with the air screw but it is still very difficult to detect any change in the way the engine is running, it didn't stall or rev up no matter which way I turned the screws.  So I set them at half a turn out and rode it and this made it run worse.  Then I set them at 2.5 turns out and that made it run better than any other setting so far.  It is still not wanting to pull cleanly when you first pull away then suddenly it takes off.  What should I do next to clean it up even more?

You have a good selection of jets to at least point you in the right direction. I'm leaning to what the cobra is saying. The porting must be interfering with things.

I have an idea. Can you make custom washers that sit between your pods and your carbs. Your goal is to create more pressure by restricting the airflow. A easy trick is to cut the tops off a soda can. With the drink tab fully removed pointed towards the floor. That make sense?

Try that and try your range of pilot jets to see if they start providing you a direction.

Also are you sure you absolutely sure you have no vacuum leaks? Have you done the spray test?
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: Walms on Feb 03, 2014, 08:59:54
I don't see how restricting the intake makes sense?
Was the motor ported by someone who knows what he's doing? To suspect its the porting at this point would make me a bit concerned.
Was the combustion chamber cut to bring the compression back after raising the ports?
If it were me, I'd want to know the port timing and compression before even starting the bike.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: jpmobius on Feb 03, 2014, 09:21:37
John, Fantastic build.  Really like the pipes.  From everything you have reported so far, you have been and still are rich on the pilots.  Have to admit, seems odd as you are pretty small now.  Couple of things.  Are you still running your vent lines and can?  Remove this if so, at least until you get it sorted.  Also, where are the jets from?  Get some authentic Mikuni jets if yours are not the real McCoy.  Some replicas can be way off.  Otherwise, go through and re check all the obvious stuff for leaks and proper assembly.  If you have not had the carbs apart completely, maybe you should just to be sure the is no restriction in the pilot air system.  Also, check the emulsion tube style.  If it is solid, you may want to consider going to the alternative type with the vertical columns of holes.  Down the road though, as you should get it closer first.  Lastly, there is absolutely no question as to how profoundly the pipes and porting can afflict the low end.  I recall a drag motor I built a long time ago much like yours.  Big carbs, very heavy porting on a piston port motor, and pipes aimed at max power and high rpm.  Wicked power (10's on an AC 350), but absolutely no idle below 2500rpm.  VERY hard to start with the kick, but easy if you got the motor to spin up to 2500!  At Idle, you would have fuel dripping off your hand if you held it near the intake.  This thing was as lean as I could get the low speed circuit, but the tuning made the reverse air flow through the carbs so bad at low revs that it was essentially double and triple dipping the low speed system and making it super rich a low speed revs.  I remember similar no effect on the air screws like you are having.  You could actually see a fog hanging in front of the carbs at "idle"!  Looks like your situation is far less severe, but there may be only so much you can do.  There is a reason for restrictive reed valves!  At the end of the day, looks like you have had definite improvement going leaner.  Needing 2 1/2 turns out of air to see effect means you are still too rich, or there is something besides jetting making it so.  One last thing.  Forget all the carb tuning except for the mains until you are happy with them.  Get the mains right first, as they (like all the other parts) do in fact effect the entire rev range to some degree.  If the mains are rich, it may seem to run pretty good because the lower revs are so awful.  Forget that.  Get the wide open very close first.  There is no sense in compounding the much more difficult low end and drivability tuning on a two stroke!

best
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 03, 2014, 18:19:52
First of all thanks as always for all the comments and suggestions, really appreciate it :)

To address the porting work first: Eric from sundial motorsports is well respected for his work tuning T500's, he has many years of doing this under his belt.  My requirement from Eric was that I would end up at around 55hp with all of the engine mods, I told him I wasn't too bothered about the bottom end but he insisted that he port it so that it would have good power all through the rev range.  This was corroborated by a member on here that did the calculations for my pipes, he told me that the porting specs on my cylinders is not real crazy.  The pipes were also not designed for power all in the high rpm range, they should work well at low rpm as well as up higher.

I raced two strokes for many years and I know the basics about how they run and how one thing will effect another but unfortunately I never really paid much attention to the carburation, I had a tuner that worked with me on that.  I guess what I am saying is that I can tell by feel that this is most likely not a porting issue but a jetting issue.

Anyway I will do a plug chop at full throttle to check where I'm at on the main jet.  My carbs are brand new and I have had them totally apart and there are no obvious issues.  All the jets I've used have been genuine Mikunis.

Again keep the comments coming I am glad there are people interested in this it is a big help!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: clem on Feb 03, 2014, 23:07:44
John I wanted to give you props on the pipes. As I found out gas welding 22ga. is very tough!
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: Walms on Feb 04, 2014, 00:10:36
One sure fire way to know if you are running lean on the idle circuit is by wicking the throttle quickly in neutral, if you get any bog before it picks up, it's lean.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 04, 2014, 00:52:36
John I wanted to give you props on the pipes. As I found out gas welding 22ga. is very tough!

Haha thanks, gas welding 22g mild steel is a piece of cake compared to gas welding aluminum tanks :)
Title: Re: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: HollywoodMX on Feb 04, 2014, 03:51:51
First of all thanks as always for all the comments and suggestions, really appreciate it :)

To address the porting work first: Eric from sundial motorsports is well respected for his work tuning T500's, he has many years of doing this under his belt.  My requirement from Eric was that I would end up at around 55hp with all of the engine mods, I told him I wasn't too bothered about the bottom end but he insisted that he port it so that it would have good power all through the rev range.  This was corroborated by a member on here that did the calculations for my pipes, he told me that the porting specs on my cylinders is not real crazy.  The pipes were also not designed for power all in the high rpm range, they should work well at low rpm as well as up higher.

I raced two strokes for many years and I know the basics about how they run and how one thing will effect another but unfortunately I never really paid much attention to the carburation, I had a tuner that worked with me on that.  I guess what I am saying is that I can tell by feel that this is most likely not a porting issue but a jetting issue.

Anyway I will do a plug chop at full throttle to check where I'm at on the main jet.  My carbs are brand new and I have had them totally apart and there are no obvious issues.  All the jets I've used have been genuine Mikunis.

Again keep the comments coming I am glad there are people interested in this it is a big help!

Oh I was not saying it's a porting issue. I should have been more clear I was leaning that the porting is causing a jetting issue due to change in velocity of air coming through the carbs this compounds when you Ditch the factory air box for pods as well (some bikes worse than others).

The reason for the pop can top test is to increase your low volume low pressure at idle to a higher pressure.
Switching to focusing on the main might help in this drastic situation but if you are going to that, you might as well tune the needle in the same direction as the main. Meaning if leaning the main 1 size produces postive results I would lean the needle next and ping pong the two.

How much lower do the pilot sizes go? 25 sounds really small. What was stock again?
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: Walms on Feb 04, 2014, 06:08:49
The fella that ported your motor should be able to get you in the ball park with jetting unless you are using a carb he's not familiar with, ask him what slide, pilots, needle, needle jet and mains he uses.
I'm offering suggestions based on you saying the bike has no go off the line but then won't rev past 4k?

I like to start tuning with the idle circuit and work up. Who cares about the main, it doesn't effect idle but pilot and needle will bleed into the main. Get the bike sorted to 1/2 throttle then work on the mains.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 04, 2014, 14:38:55
70 lbs less than my 500... ;)

Yup but you got one more cylinder ;D ;D ;D
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: Walms on Feb 04, 2014, 17:17:59
Haha, you say that like its a bad thing! :)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 05, 2014, 10:38:16
 ;)
Haha, you say that like its a bad thing! :)


It's bad when you have to buy 3 carbs instead of two ;) ;) ;)
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: Walms on Feb 05, 2014, 10:39:55
How did you know I just blew $500 on carbs? :P
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: teazer on Feb 05, 2014, 14:34:09
And now he tells me that.  I have a set of three pristine TM32 flat slides that came with a GT750 project.  All I need to do is to work out what I'm going to do with them.  Maybe sell them to an H1 or 400 triple owner. ;-)
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: Walms on Feb 05, 2014, 14:58:42
I'm sure you'd get a taker! I opted for PWK's just because I already have all the brass I need.
I was looking at the TM's but I feared they would have an interference with the case because of my reeds.
Title: Re: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: HollywoodMX on Feb 06, 2014, 02:34:42
I'm sure you'd get a taker! I opted for PWK's just because I already have all the brass I need.
I was looking at the TM's but I feared they would have an interference with the case because of my reeds.

I'm a really big fan of the Pwk series. I would use them on 4 strokes if I could. 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: 50gary on Feb 06, 2014, 10:41:30
I thought the PJ series were for the four strokes?  I'm looking for a nice 38 PWK for my YZ250 project.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: Walms on Feb 06, 2014, 11:17:13
PJ's were standard issue on all the Honda CR's at one point.
Nice carb but no idle slide adjustment like the PWK's
A word of the wise if anyone is planning to use them on a multi cylinder bike though.
I bought 3 used ones and probably wouldn't again.
I had a colder cylinder temp on one and it would follow with the carb if I changed them around...
My theory is with a fixed needle jet, plus spending their previous life in dust, I believe that needle jet was worn slightly causing that condition.
Sorry for the high Jack John...
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (Finished Video & Pics!)
Post by: johnu on Feb 06, 2014, 17:11:31
No problem!  I got nothing going on right now anyway, no time to work on the bike ;)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: johnu on Feb 07, 2014, 18:33:57
I got a little time to spend on the bike today ;)  I disconnected the overflow tubes that go from the carb to the catch can as suggested by Mobius, seems a little better.  I only had time to ride up and down my street a couple of times (2nd gear) but it did seem to be improved.

Here is a short vid this time without all the smoke ;)  Still getting a bit of smoke from the right side though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5p8GTQr2kE4
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: clem on Feb 07, 2014, 20:39:22
Don't know if its just my phone but I can't see a video.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: cobraace2 on Feb 07, 2014, 20:53:20
Idles to low and the smoke is to low to  ;D 
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: Walms on Feb 07, 2014, 21:36:40
It seems to be hanging on to the rpm when you let off the throttle... an Air leak or too lean maybe?
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: Walms on Feb 08, 2014, 08:30:36
Have you done a leak down test on the motor yet? I know with our triples, with the exhaust and intake sealed, you should be able to hold 6psi of pressure and vacuum. If you have lab seals, you'll have to do both at the same time.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: clem on Feb 08, 2014, 11:39:28
It seems to be hanging on to the rpm when you let off the throttle... an Air leak or too lean maybe?
+1 on this. The idle tells the story.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: johnu on Feb 08, 2014, 17:47:14
Ok great feedback!  It only started with the revs not going down since I put the small pilots in.  I will research "leak down test" as no, I have not done it.  What are lab seals?

Going to get a video of me riding the bike when my son comes home on leave this week :)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: clem on Feb 08, 2014, 21:23:24
Labyrinth seal on the crank. Has nothing to do with the david bowie movie.
Title: Re: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: HollywoodMX on Feb 09, 2014, 13:46:33
Ok great feedback!  It only started with the revs not going down since I put the small pilots in.  I will research "leak down test" as no, I have not done it.  What are lab seals?

Going to get a video of me riding the bike when my son comes home on leave this week :)

Before leak down, have you tested the intake components for leaks like I suggested earlier? It takes 2 min.

A couple ways; while running you can spray starting aerosol between the carbs and the engine and see if it Idles up. If it does you have a leak.

You can use water or break cleaner instead in which case it will idle down as the sign.

Even though it more dangerous I find the starter fluid is more sensitive in telling me there are intake leaks vs the others.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: johnu on Feb 10, 2014, 19:32:41
Did the spray test with water and there are no leaks on the intakes, not brave enough to use the starter fluid ;)  I fitted all new crank seals when I built the motor up, I know how important this is (i use to change seals after every race weekend on my race engines).  I will do the leak down test as obviously there is something wrong but I think maybe I just went too low with the pilots.
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: Walms on Feb 11, 2014, 07:30:41

I just went too low with the pilots.

Here's a short video of my bike on first start up. It's dead rich, probably too rich to ride but at least you can listen to how the rpm drops quickly.

http://youtu.be/PgwQy-SUAOc
Title: Re: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: HollywoodMX on Feb 11, 2014, 12:12:12
Here's a short video of my bike on first start up. It's dead rich, probably too rich to ride but at least you can listen to how the rpm drops quickly.

http://youtu.be/PgwQy-SUAOc

Starting with one kick I don't think that's super rich especially if it was cold. The air circuit never made a difference with that jetting? I would be inclined to switch to those pilots and lean the needle 2 clips and go for a test drive. 
Title: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: Walms on Feb 11, 2014, 12:18:27
Yup, it was... ;) like having the choke on it was so rich.
Confirmed as soon as she went on her maiden voyage.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: teazer on Feb 11, 2014, 13:46:14
Walms and JohnU are both correct.  Walms bike was way rich and JohnU's bike is NOW too lean at idle with those 22.5s where it was too rich before with larger pilot jets. 

So it needs slightly larger pilots but probably needs to be leaner as it comes off idle.  That suggests a larger cutaway might clean that up.  I also wonder if the pilot air jet system is clogged or maybe the air jet is too small to have any effect.  I think it's a drilling in those carbs and it's worth checking.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: HollywoodMX on Feb 12, 2014, 02:07:08
Shit I'm confused.  I didn't look to who I was responding to.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: johnu on Feb 12, 2014, 11:03:27
Shit I'm confused.  I didn't look to who I was responding to.

Your confused??? Join the club haha ;D
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: johnu on Feb 12, 2014, 11:05:09
Walms and JohnU are both correct.  Walms bike was way rich and JohnU's bike is NOW too lean at idle with those 22.5s where it was too rich before with larger pilot jets. 

So it needs slightly larger pilots but probably needs to be leaner as it comes off idle.  That suggests a larger cutaway might clean that up.  I also wonder if the pilot air jet system is clogged or maybe the air jet is too small to have any effect.  I think it's a drilling in those carbs and it's worth checking.

Going to take the carbs off today AGAIN!! and check them AGAIN for any blockages ;)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: teazer on Feb 12, 2014, 12:46:48
John,

The situation you had earlier appeared to be rich at idle or was it just off idle as you started to open it up?  I don't have a full picture of what the symptoms were at different revs/throttle settings with those different pilot jets and air screw settings.

In other words, if you can get the idle OK with say a 30 pilot jet but it bogs as the slides are lifted to say 1/4 open then it is likely to be an issue of transition from the pilot circuit to the main circuit and that's where the cutaway comes in to play.  If it's wet and soggy at say 1/4 to 1/2 it's more likely to be the needle jet. 

Easy check on the air circuit would be to remove the pilot jet , loosen the screw and spray carb cleaner down teh air inlet.  If it sprays back in your eyes, you know it's blocked (and you need to see an eye specialist)  If it sprays out of teh pilot jet holes (up or down) it's probably not a problem. 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: HollywoodMX on Feb 12, 2014, 18:19:52
I would put in the 35s or whatever you have close to. I would lean the needle 2 clips.

Start the bike. Let it warm up. Test the air screw. If no notable difference, Then with one hand hold the throttle to around 2000 rpm steadily as possible , with the other hand adjust the air screw and see if there is a difference in it idling up and down then. I would also take it for a quick boot to test the needle change. 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: johnu on Apr 08, 2014, 12:59:26
Ok guys, thanks to all of you that voted for my bike this month!

Everything will be at a standstill for quite a while as I just unexpectedly had to have open heart surgery!!  I have had a pacemaker for the last ten years (when i was 40) because I have a very low resting heart rate (about 40 during the day but dipping in the 20's at night) well last week they removed the pacemaker as it was giving me grief but when the took the wire out it tore the wall of my heart so they had to do open heart surgery to repair it.  I am very fit ( i can out cycle most guys half my age) have no clogged arteries or bad valves so hopefully I can recover quickly :) 

Probably going to be about six weeks before I can fire the bike up again :(
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: Walms on Apr 08, 2014, 13:17:11
Wow, sorry to hear John, all the best on a quick recovery!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: Rich Ard on Apr 08, 2014, 13:48:46
Some guys will do anything to get out of working. Get better man.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: Mr_Dunev on Apr 08, 2014, 13:54:20
Ok guys, thanks to all of you that voted for my bike this month!

Everything will be at a standstill for quite a while as I just unexpectedly had to have open heart surgery!!  I have had a pacemaker for the last ten years (when i was 40) because I have a very low resting heart rate (about 40 during the day but dipping in the 20's at night) well last week they removed the pacemaker as it was giving me grief but when the took the wire out it tore the wall of my heart so they had to do open heart surgery to repair it.  I am very fit ( i can out cycle most guys half my age) have no clogged arteries or bad valves so hopefully I can recover quickly :) 

Probably going to be about six weeks before I can fire the bike up again :(

I hope you recover quickly. Don't worry about the bike, it will be there when you get better. Taking care of yourself is priority numero uno.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: clem on Apr 08, 2014, 14:19:12
I hope that you get recover soon. From what I see here, you seem like a really good dude.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: stroker crazy on Apr 08, 2014, 17:40:01
Get well soon!

You've got some serious riding to do.

Crazy
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: 50gary on Apr 08, 2014, 19:52:34
John, all the best, have a speedy and complete recovery!  Two of my best friends  are heart surgeons, as a matter of fact I'm going over to see one of them tonight.   Yours is definitely bike of the month.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Apr 09, 2014, 13:00:56
I am so sorry to here your news.  Take care of yourself and do all the stuff you need to do to heal up.

Take care, it will be a good time to catch up on all of your DOT reading while you rest up.

Brian
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: johnu on Apr 10, 2014, 11:53:32
Thanks for all the well wishes, I am feeling better everyday :)

Now I have all this time on my hands my mind wanders and that means thinking about future projects ;)  If I could choose my next bike to build it would be one of three choices all totally different, #1 Kawasaki 650 Ninja (twin cylinder 4stroke) #2 Suzuki dr800 (single cylinder 4stroke) #3 Yamaha lc350 (twin cylinder 2stroke).  The Kawi would be my #1 choice maybe a crash damaged bike as I wouldn't be using much of the frame or suspension.... we shall see.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: 1969Honda on Apr 10, 2014, 13:01:39
Nice to hear your keeping your spirits up and making use of the down time.  ;D  Take care of yourself and get better!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: Walms on Apr 10, 2014, 13:11:31
No Kawi triple on your list??? :)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: johnu on Apr 10, 2014, 14:14:59
No Kawi triple on your list??? :)

I know I can't afford that!  I would love a 750 but just rebuilding the engine alone would cost a fortune ;)  There is a guy on here did a Kawi triple with Ninja 636 forks and mono rear with a TZ ducktail seat which is a great looking bike but I can't remember his username.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: Walms on Apr 10, 2014, 14:27:49
Trevor is is given name, not sure of his board name?
You are right about that though, they aren't cheap, especially the H2's
A hopped up H1 is the best way to go for bang for your buck.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: johnu on Apr 10, 2014, 15:02:55
Trevor is is given name, not sure of his board name?
You are right about that though, they aren't cheap, especially the H2's
A hopped up H1 is the best way to go for bang for your buck.


That's the guy!  We pm'ed each other quite a bit about forks and pipes and stuff.  I just remembered user name is squirrely (sp)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: johnu on Apr 11, 2014, 13:18:50
Hey Andrew, this is the guy I am talking about, Squirely aka Jens.  Here is his Kawi.  Same forks, brakes and wheels that I used on my Suzuki.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: Maritime on Apr 11, 2014, 13:21:02
And it was a BOTM too. John hope you heal up fast and well.  Cheers

Maritime
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: johnu on Apr 11, 2014, 14:30:59
And it was a BOTM too. John hope you heal up fast and well.  Cheers

Maritime

Thanks, feeling better every day!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: HollywoodMX on Apr 12, 2014, 01:50:32
Thanks for all the well wishes, I am feeling better everyday :)

Now I have all this time on my hands my mind wanders and that means thinking about future projects ;)  If I could choose my next bike to build it would be one of three choices all totally different, #1 Kawasaki 650 Ninja (twin cylinder 4stroke) #2 Suzuki dr800 (single cylinder 4stroke) #3 Yamaha lc350 (twin cylinder 2stroke).  The Kawi would be my #1 choice maybe a crash damaged bike as I wouldn't be using much of the frame or suspension.... we shall see.

Ita to bad we don't get the honda Africa (better than the dr800 aka Dr big).
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: cobraace2 on Apr 12, 2014, 18:15:28
John I new you were gone get botm sooner or later well deserved . OH get well soon .Hey did you have any custom work done porting of the heart valve maybe boysen reed valves    ;D us old guys need all the help we can get
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: johnu on Apr 15, 2014, 14:55:08
Haha only a slight tune up on the heart wall plus remove an old pacemaker wire, all valves and arteries are fully ported and wide open (like new) like a factory racer.  I should be hammering kids less than half my age on the mountain bike again in about 6 months.

My boy is going to start the Suzuki on Friday when he gets home on leave.  I am having him make some carb adjustments first just to see if I can make a little headway.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: cobraace2 on Apr 16, 2014, 12:07:56
Great show those kids how its done . Thank your son for his service for me  ;)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: johnu on Apr 16, 2014, 14:03:46
Great show those kids how its done . Thank your son for his service for me  ;)

Will do!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: farmer58za on Apr 17, 2014, 03:49:05
Johnu
I'm just new here. Saw you had open heart surgery. Glad to see you're recovering.
I've had some done too and it's ok, you'll be as good as new soon.
In the meantime, put your son to work on the Suzuki!
Regards
David

Thanks for all the well wishes, I am feeling better everyday :)

Now I have all this time on my hands my mind wanders and that means thinking about future projects ;)  If I could choose my next bike to build it would be one of three choices all totally different, #1 Kawasaki 650 Ninja (twin cylinder 4stroke) #2 Suzuki dr800 (single cylinder 4stroke) #3 Yamaha lc350 (twin cylinder 2stroke).  The Kawi would be my #1 choice maybe a crash damaged bike as I wouldn't be using much of the frame or suspension.... we shall see.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: johnu on Apr 18, 2014, 18:57:06
Johnu
I'm just new here. Saw you had open heart surgery. Glad to see you're recovering.
I've had some done too and it's ok, you'll be as good as new soon.
In the meantime, put your son to work on the Suzuki!
Regards
David


Thanks for the encouragement!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project (New Video)
Post by: johnu on Dec 01, 2016, 17:54:15
Ok guys I finally started working on the 500 again. Unfortunately I never did get it running right so I am going to completely strip the engine again and totally rebuild it. Last time I didn't have the crank rebuilt because po said it had been done recently. I now believe that was not true.

Biggest problem I had was that it ran like it had an air leak, when you revved it up it the revs didn't die down right away.

I must confess that I short cut the original rebuild and now regret it. After Eric did the porting I was going to have the cylinders bored to next size over (max) and fit new pistons (i bought some on ebay for $60 brand new) but I just ended up putting new rings in it. Also I never skimmed the 0.020" off the heads that Eric suggested.

So the plan now; Strip engine completely and have the crank split and install new center seal. Buy new forged pistons (max oversize) and get cylinders bored.  Skim 0.020" from heads. Of course I installed new outer crank seals last time I rebuilt it but I will put new ones in anyway. I plan to use Bill Bune to do the crankshaft and boring unless there are any other suggestions here? I will do the heads myself.

I want to do this right this time so if anyone has suggestions for anything else I should consider doing while building the engine fire away :up: The bike will run on Sunnoco standard leaded race gas (no more ethanol crap for me :lol: )I am building this bike to use mostly at trackdays.

Just drained the oil out before I remove the engine and it is about 50/50 oil and gas (petrol).
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: johnu on Dec 01, 2016, 18:05:37
I have the engine apart now and found transmission oil in the crankcase so it must have leaked through the dodgy center seals.  I will be sending the crank off to Bill Bune this week to split it and install the new seals.  He will also be removing the oil slinger washers from the crankshaft and replacing them with a small diameter shim washer as I have decided to run the bike on premix.  I'm also sending them the cylinders to bore them for the new Wossner forged pistons.
While that is being done I am going to totally go through the carbs even though they are almost new they have had ethanol fuel in them and they have sat for at least a year so who knows what that will be like in side.  No more ethanol for me in this bike :)

On a different note I have also decided to run clipons now in favor of the high bars.  I am going to be riding the bike at trackdays mostly so this will make it more suitable for that.  I have other bikes with high bars ;D  I will be looking to add an electronic tacho/speedo as well probably an Acewell.  Not sure how easy that is to install yet.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: clem on Dec 01, 2016, 19:40:36
Glad to see this moving again John.

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Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: 50gary on Dec 01, 2016, 21:15:00
Excellent, good for you.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Dec 01, 2016, 21:46:41
Glad to see this moving again John.

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+1
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: Joon-yah on Dec 02, 2016, 12:40:00
Glad to seee you're doing better and back to work on the bike
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: johnu on Jan 10, 2017, 17:49:49
Time to reassemble :)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: farmer92 on Jan 10, 2017, 17:56:14
Beauty
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: 50gary on Jan 10, 2017, 19:42:10
John, when you tore the motor down, did you find anything unusual or out of spec.?   Something that may answer the question of why it didn't run as well as hoped for?  Did you modify anything for the "new" motor?
  Cheers, 50gary
 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: johnu on Jan 10, 2017, 21:24:08
Yes Gary, there was trans oil in the crankcase and gas in the transmission so that confirms that the center seals on the crankshaft were bad.  I have converted to premix, this involved removing the oil slingers on the crankshaft and replacing with equal thickness shim washers and drilling holes in the crankcase through the transfers to the bearings.  I bored the cylinders 1mm over and I'm using Wossner forged pistons.  I also skimmed 0.020" off of the heads which I should have done when I first built the engine (I got impatient ;D).  I have a good baseline for the carbs now as well from someone that has run 34 vm's on a t500 with similar tune!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: 50gary on Jan 10, 2017, 22:41:58
Sounds like a good plan, I'm happy with my oil pump, yeah Eric K. says to skim the heads.  Your bike (and you) have a bunch of fans here so keep us posted.  I almost have mine finished, painting soon.  I used a Ninja 300 swingarm (20.5") that I did the reverse conversion, from mono to twin shocks.  De-raked it to 24.8 degrees.  Modest rearsets and a thumb brake for the rear.  I'll send a picture when the time comes.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: johnu on Jan 11, 2017, 12:29:27
Thanks Gary, do you have a build thread anywhere for your bike (maybe on another forum)?
I'm going to be running the bike on Sunnoco 110 leaded race gas, no more ethanol going in these carbs when I have them all cleaned out ;D
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: johnu on Jan 11, 2017, 13:31:26
Ok well my excitement has turned to frustration as I started to reassemble the engine I noticed the thread on the end of the crankshaft is severely damaged.  I suspect it happened in shipping.  Not sure what I'm going to do as it looks way too bad to just clean it up >:(
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: 1fasgsxr on Jan 11, 2017, 13:36:06
ouch....that stinks
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: Maritime on Jan 11, 2017, 13:41:12
how does that even happen, it is really bent bad.  That sucks, can a machine shop fix that?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: teazer on Jan 11, 2017, 13:42:36
Not good.  How long do es the thread have to be to retain the rotor?  and if you replaced the plain nut and lock washer with a Fuji nut or Loctite, do you have enough good threads left?

If not, the end could be cut off and the crank end drilled and tapped for a bolt or insert a stud.

Or find some way to roll the thread back into shape starting close to the flywheel and rolling it out towards the end.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: Kamn on Jan 11, 2017, 14:28:31
by the looks of it in the pic, at least the last 3 threads are fubared but could be cut off and the rest cleaned up with a die......should still have enough for the nut that goes on the end
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: johnu on Jan 11, 2017, 15:00:12
by the looks of it in the pic, at least the last 3 threads are fubared but could be cut off and the rest cleaned up with a die......should still have enough for the nut that goes on the end

Yes, I think a combination of yours and Teazers ideas I can do it.  I will cut 3mm off then try to clean up the rest (there is about 7mm that is damaged).  I'll use a thin shakeproof washer instead of the lock washer that way the nut should end up about flush with the end of the shaft.  And btw I am the machine shop ;D  I probably could have done the crank rebuild myself using a friends press but it's a pain making up all the pieces to press the shafts out and back in.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: johnu on Jan 11, 2017, 16:11:35
Well I've dodged a bullet here, had to put on my old craftsmans hat to fix this one ;D  Hacksaw and needle files did the trick!  In the pic with the rotor and nut on the shaft there is no lock washer under the nut so it will probably end up right about flush if I just use a shakeproof washer.  Thanks for all the suggestions :)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: Kamn on Jan 11, 2017, 16:23:30
Nice fix Johnu
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: Maritime on Jan 11, 2017, 16:43:01
Crisis averted!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: jimmer on Jan 11, 2017, 17:23:36
Great save. Looked pretty bad in the picture!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: johnu on Jan 11, 2017, 18:01:46
It was bad, I cut the last couple of pitches on thread to where they should be with my needle files!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: teazer on Jan 11, 2017, 19:48:12
Nice save.  BTW, why are you using an external flywheel ;-)  Powerdynamo perhaps?  I like the idea and my RZ has a similar set up, but so much weight hanging out there.  For track use and simple Motoplat or PVL with internal rotor would be a nice alternative.......
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: johnu on Jan 11, 2017, 19:56:39
Nice save.  BTW, why are you using an external flywheel ;-)  Powerdynamo perhaps?  I like the idea and my RZ has a similar set up, but so much weight hanging out there.  For track use and simple Motoplat or PVL with internal rotor would be a nice alternative.......

I've used motoplats on kart engines before!  I am just running the stock ign, is there a motoplat availabe for t500?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: jimmer on Jan 11, 2017, 20:13:03
HPI:http://www.hpi.be/item.php?item=068K172
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: teazer on Jan 11, 2017, 20:37:47
I've used motoplats on kart engines before!  I am just running the stock ign, is there a motoplat availabe for t500?

In my garage waiting to go on ebay, yes.  I was told it came off a T500 but it would need an adapter plate I would expect to fit the stator. I have a couple of very low mileage Motoplats for Yamaha TZ's and one that I bought new with adaptor plate to fit a CB77 that I never got around to building.

Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Jan 12, 2017, 01:22:39
Ya, that is a nice save!

Would you care to share the base carb jettings that you are going to use?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: JustinLonghorn on Jan 12, 2017, 07:59:46
Huzzah!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: johnu on Jan 12, 2017, 12:22:18
Ya, that is a nice save!

Would you care to share the base carb jettings that you are going to use?

I will direct you to this link http://www.suzuki2strokes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12550 on a different forum.  You will see a post from Zunspec about 6 down from the top on the first page with a suggestion for a starting point.  Hope this helps :)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: johnu on Jan 12, 2017, 14:18:57
HPI:http://www.hpi.be/item.php?item=068K172
So I assume this will make it rev quicker with less flywheel weight correct?  Is this the only advantage?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Jan 12, 2017, 17:06:22
Thanks for the link :)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: teazer on Jan 12, 2017, 18:38:56
Yes, unless you go with the programmable version or add some of the other options.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: johnu on Jan 12, 2017, 19:18:32
Yes, unless you go with the programmable version or add some of the other options.
I'll run stock for now maybe upgrade later on :)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: johnu on Jan 12, 2017, 19:22:50
Got the bottom end assembled.  Premix all the way now!  Pics of the oil pump housing blanking plate plugged injector holes and the feed in the transfer area.  Also oil slingers removed on the crankshaft.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: jimmer on Jan 12, 2017, 19:28:24
Perfect!!! And I am so glad you saved that crank end. Like someone else said, that made my heart sink.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: johnu on Jan 12, 2017, 19:37:00
Perfect!!! And I am so glad you saved that crank end. Like someone else said, that made my heart sink.

Yes me too, thought i was in deep $h*t :o
And thanks for the help with the premix conversion :)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: johnu on Jan 12, 2017, 23:15:08
Moving forward :D Do you think I got the swing arm pivot as close as I could to the cs sprocket as I could ;D
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: farmer92 on Jan 13, 2017, 07:24:42
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170113/a04b35f4116ed7aa9a7a453030441675.png)
Almost?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: johnu on Jan 13, 2017, 10:45:18
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170113/a04b35f4116ed7aa9a7a453030441675.png)
Almost?
Haha, yes nice one ;D
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: neevo on Jan 13, 2017, 17:27:31
G450X dirt bike from BMW had it as small as you could. Not sure why this isn't a more adopted solution as it removes need for chain slack too:

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170113/e8cf7451627841869c3643d1c48f3b1d.jpg)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: johnu on Jan 19, 2017, 22:05:14
Think about fitting one of these Acewell tacho's http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/381713336625?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true , are they easy to fit? Or is there a better option, only interested in a basic unit.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: clem on Jan 19, 2017, 22:14:47
That would probably be perfect for what you need. Check out Trail Tech and Koso too. They both have some basic speedometers in that same style.

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Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: johnu on Jan 20, 2017, 12:40:24
Thanks Clem.  Forgive my ignorance but do all of these tachs work with twin cylinder engines?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: farmer92 on Jan 20, 2017, 13:16:40
Thanks Clem.  Forgive my ignorance but do all of these tachs work with twin cylinder engines?

Both pistons are moving at the same rpm, they only need to pick up one plug
Better question is, do they function with a 2 stroke or will it show double...
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: johnu on Jan 20, 2017, 13:55:08
Both pistons are moving at the same rpm, they only need to pick up one plug
Better question is, do they function with a 2 stroke or will it show double...

Like I said my ignorance shows through in all things electrical ;D
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: clem on Jan 20, 2017, 16:31:54
Most have settings to adjust for wasted spark systems John. So yes you should be good.

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Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: teazer on Jan 20, 2017, 17:52:14
Most of those tachos are adjustable and ones that are not are typically designed for old school 4 stroke in line fours with two coils, so a wasted spark should not be a problem.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: jimmer on Jan 20, 2017, 18:20:38
I know the Trailtech Voyager has adjustability on ignition pulses per 360 degree crank rotation. I' m quite sure those are the same.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: johnu on Jan 20, 2017, 19:03:28
Ok thanks, just ordered the acewell :)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: johnu on Jan 21, 2017, 20:20:51
Got the clutch side all back together now moved over to the ignition/final drive side. Installed the ignition and came to put the oil seal and retaining plate back on the final drive shaft and I found this shim looking washer in the bottom off the box that had all the parts for this side in it. Not sure where it goes or if it should go on the clutch side somewhere???? it it the same size id as the final drive shaft.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: kadavenport on Jan 22, 2017, 06:35:39
I might would post this on the suzuki2stroke forum if you haven't already. Found this link over there that might help too: http://file.walagata.com/w/sundialmotosport/SuzukiT500.pdf (http://file.walagata.com/w/sundialmotosport/SuzukiT500.pdf). Page 60 has a schematic of the transmission.
Haven't worked on a t500, but on the gt550 there is a similar shim that goes behind the side case on the kickstarter shaft.


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Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: farmer92 on Jan 22, 2017, 08:32:24
If i remember correctly john, there is a washer behind the clutch assembly. If you got a manual there is an exploded view in it i believe.
Title: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: farmer92 on Jan 22, 2017, 08:33:55
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170122/315da45cde0156e697361728735653d5.png)

It goes between the spacer and the cases and also in the basket.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: johnu on Jan 22, 2017, 17:34:59
Thanks farmer but it is not either of those two washers.  Those two are precision ground on both sides and I know I installed them.  This one is more of a stamped out washer although more precision then a regular washer ???
Where did you get the exploded view from?  It is way better than what is in my Haynes manual.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: teazer on Jan 22, 2017, 17:41:04
In that case isn't it a Bellville (coned) washer that fits under the clutch center nut to keep it from coming loose?

Admittedly that's more normal on a Yamaha than a Suzuki.  RDs use them on the clutch and crank nuts but Suzi usually uses a tab washer.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: johnu on Jan 22, 2017, 18:06:34
Yes it has a tab washer on the clutch.
It's not a Bellville, it is thicker and not dished.  I have had this engine apart a couple of times now and I just can't place this washer!
Title: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: farmer92 on Jan 22, 2017, 18:20:39
Maybe it fell in there?
Only others are on the actual transmission shafts...


(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170122/7adda2818a3cf998ce7e5a5ab765c8ad.png)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: johnu on Jan 22, 2017, 21:10:38
Thanks farmer :)  I am baffled to be honest ???  I never took anything out of the bottom half of the crankcase except for the crankshaft assembly so it can't be off of any of the trans shafts.  Also haven't had any other motors apart but maybe it was already in the plastic container that I used.  Just odd that it is the exact size of the output shaft.  Just worries me that I missed something.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: johnu on Jan 22, 2017, 21:12:04
I might would post this on the suzuki2stroke forum if you haven't already. Found this link over there that might help too: http://file.walagata.com/w/sundialmotosport/SuzukiT500.pdf (http://file.walagata.com/w/sundialmotosport/SuzukiT500.pdf). Page 60 has a schematic of the transmission.
Haven't worked on a t500, but on the gt550 there is a similar shim that goes behind the side case on the kickstarter shaft.


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Thanks, yes I did post up over there but no replies yet!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: teazer on Jan 23, 2017, 13:06:52
Is it a spacer that you put behind the output sprocket, to match the chain line for that wide rear wheel?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: johnu on Jan 23, 2017, 13:24:48
Is it a spacer that you put behind the output sprocket, to match the chain line for that wide rear wheel?
That is what I'm wondering now!  I did make an offset sprocket but maybe I needed a little more?  I will check that out.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: kadavenport on Jan 28, 2017, 08:05:07
Any luck?


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Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: johnu on Jan 28, 2017, 19:32:30
Any luck?


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I'm pretty sure it was behind the offset countershaft sprocket that I made to give me the exact offset to allow for the wider rear tire.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: 50gary on Jan 29, 2017, 00:35:51
John, I have forgotten, what is the width of your rear rim/tire combo?  I have a 110 front with a 3.00" wheel and a 140 rear with a 3.50" wheel.  It was tough getting it in the very narrow Titan frame.  I used a '14 Ninja 250 swingarm, pretty nice piece.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: johnu on Jan 29, 2017, 20:06:19
John, I have forgotten, what is the width of your rear rim/tire combo?  I have a 110 front with a 3.00" wheel and a 140 rear with a 3.50" wheel.  It was tough getting it in the very narrow Titan frame.  I used a '14 Ninja 250 swingarm, pretty nice piece.
  Cheers, 50gary
Hey Gary I have a 5" rim with a 160 tire.  I machined the rear sprocket carrier down to move the chain over about 12mm as I recall but I still had move the counter sprocket about 10mm outward!  How close are you to finishing your bike?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: 50gary on Jan 29, 2017, 20:58:44
That's pretty wide, a 160 in that frame gotta be tight.  I had to make an offset sprocket for my XS650.  My T-500 tire is a Bridgestone Battlax S20 evo 140/17" radial, a very nice tire.  I making progress, busy working two jobs so time is always at a premium.  Keep up the good work, yours is a very cool bike.
  Cheers, 50gary
 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: johnu on Feb 03, 2017, 17:26:59
Finally got the bike back together :) Hoping to fire it up tomorrow, first time on premix  8)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: DailyGrind on Feb 03, 2017, 20:56:35
that is awesome love the pic of a beautifully crafted bike on an economical project table in front of a humble toolbox. goes to show ya
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: Titan performance on Feb 04, 2017, 17:05:22
Yep......gotta hand it to you, that is some quality build right there !
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: johnu on Feb 05, 2017, 20:28:01
Thank you, start up this week sometime :)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *Update*
Post by: tattoo on Feb 06, 2017, 15:24:44
crazy build!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Feb 07, 2017, 14:45:40
Well I got around to firing the bike up today, started on the second kick :)  Sounds way better than before but very woolly down low.  Smoked like a chimney too.  Fuel tap started leaking so I'll get that fixed and take it for a quick spin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IAjMbpvlF0&feature=em-upload_owner
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: tattoo on Feb 07, 2017, 15:39:32
congrats!!!   

second kick----exactly----it's a t500!!  bulletproof, right?

Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Feb 07, 2017, 17:22:20
Congrats!  What a great bike!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: JustinLonghorn on Feb 07, 2017, 18:02:33
Sounds angry. I can dig it.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: BillyGoat4130 on Feb 07, 2017, 18:57:21
Wow, awesome build and the bike sounds great in the video. Looks extremely well put together. Love the two strokes!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: teazer on Feb 07, 2017, 19:29:48
It looks and sounds great.  Try smaller pilot jets to clean up that bottom end and/or drop the needles - if it's still like that after a blast up the street.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Feb 07, 2017, 19:43:06
Thanks!  Yes I put 45 pilots in so I think going down on those would iron some of that low end issue out.  Raining outside right now, don't want to wipe out if I give it too much of a handful I'll wait until it's dry ;D
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Feb 08, 2017, 23:08:42
Going to try to install this tomorrow.  Did I say i hate electrical stuff ;D
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: clem on Feb 08, 2017, 23:49:06
Does that one have a 2 wire speed sensor?

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Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Feb 09, 2017, 11:51:35
Does that one have a 2 wire speed sensor?

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Yes two wire.  Just looked at the instructions and shouldn't be too difficult to install.  I just wish the Chinese would get better interpreters to write the instructions!  Do I just get power from any wire that is hot when the ignition key is switched on?  Not sure what they mean by vibration on the speed sensor.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: clem on Feb 09, 2017, 14:35:04
That looks like their reed switch version. You only need keyed ignition unless it has a clock then you may need a battery feed for it to run the clock. Looking at the schematic it appears that they are using battery for the clock. It may be monitored to save settings when the ignition is turned off also.

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Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: Maritime on Feb 09, 2017, 15:03:54
Like Clem said the line from the battery only powers the clock, minimal draw the other line should come from keyed power, probably fused and will run the gauge when you turn the key. those instructions were way better than what my gauge came with, I had to use my multimeter and test light to figure out what the hell each wire did. also my guess the vibration direction = rotation and is part of the poor translation.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: clem on Feb 09, 2017, 15:48:54
Yeah, I've got one of their cable drive adapters that I'm trying to get to work with my custom speedometer and it's tough emailing "george" from Taiwan. Haha

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Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: Maritime on Feb 09, 2017, 15:50:15
Ha, been there.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: clem on Feb 09, 2017, 17:27:57
John when you do hook this thing up can you tell me if the green and purple wire put out 5vdc? I am assuming that it does but that doesn't get me very far.

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Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Feb 09, 2017, 19:21:25
Ok so far I just got the magnet and speed sensor mounted.  I have a 7mm gap between them right now and it says max 8mm so should be ok.  I will make up a longer spacer at a later date though instead of the nut I have in there now.  All I'm really interested in is the tacho feature but might as well hook up the speedo too.  Gas gauge and clock are not needed.   Clem I'll see what I can do regarding those two wires.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: clem on Feb 09, 2017, 21:37:07
This is where mine sits. I had it working with a 3 wire hall but this 2 wire has tortured me. I think that it may be a bad component.

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Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Feb 10, 2017, 15:10:00
Ok so I got everything mounted and it's time to connect things up.  So first of all the yellow rpm input wire it says on the diagram 200cm which is length as supplied, am I supposed to leave it full length and not cut it?  If I do leave it 200cm long can I coil it up and strap it to the frame under the tank?  Speed sensor I just connect the male and female connectors together...easy.  I don't plan on using the bikes battery just the one in the tacho unit so it looks to me as if all i have to do is ground the black wire, am I correct?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: clem on Feb 10, 2017, 15:30:22
Black is gnd on the ace well. Do you have the resistor on the blue wire? I didn't notice that one on the schematic earlier. As far as the tach, I'd try it first wrapping the plug wire from the end of the yellow wire. Check results then wrap where you are wanting to cut it then check results again. If they are both the same I'd cut it.

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Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Feb 10, 2017, 16:17:11
Good idea with the tach wire :)  I'm not using the blue wire, that's the fuel light.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: clem on Feb 10, 2017, 16:22:18
I should have seen that little fuel pump on the diagram! :)

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Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Feb 10, 2017, 18:07:36
Well it's all connected up now and the speed sensor works because it turned the screen on when I rolled the bike along :)  When I go through the settings do I have to set it for 2 cylinders to allow for wasted spark?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Feb 10, 2017, 21:02:02
Ok fired it up and the tacho was seriously erratic so I went from 5 coils around the spark plug wire to 2 turns but it's still just all over the place.  I guess I have two options according to the instructions; either conected directly to the coil or use the resistor in the yellow wire.  If I use the resistor do I just solder it inline somewhere along the wire?
Title: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: farmer92 on Feb 10, 2017, 21:04:14
Try more coils
If its all over the place you're getting a noisy signal.
And yes, resistor inline between the coils and the gauge.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: BillyGoat4130 on Feb 10, 2017, 21:06:02
May need to try running resistor type R plugs (assuming ngk) also. Years ago local harescramble club got transponders and went through hell with them before realizing non resistor plugs made them wonky.  Worth trying

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Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: clem on Feb 10, 2017, 22:55:17
That's my thought, resistor plugs.  I think their translation of series is serial?

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Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Feb 11, 2017, 17:29:04
I will get the resistor plugs :)  Also i wraped the wire coils with electrical tape to keep them tight to the plug lead, maybe I shouldn't do that?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Feb 16, 2017, 19:00:08
Thank you guys for suggesting the resistor plugs that did the trick :)  Now to get the engine running a little more sweet.  Clem you would have to tell me how to check those wires on the speed sensor that you asked about, I am electrically challenged ;D
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: clem on Feb 17, 2017, 10:32:18
It's no big deal. I'm glad you got it working. Now get it jetted! :)

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Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: BillyGoat4130 on Feb 17, 2017, 16:37:57
That's great! This is a super cool build, I may borrow your dash and tach cluster for my Rotax project... Looks like a nice setup.

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Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Feb 17, 2017, 18:58:24
That's great! This is a super cool build, I may borrow your dash and tach cluster for my Rotax project... Looks like a nice setup.

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Rotax, what Rotax????  I use to race them in Karts!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: BillyGoat4130 on Feb 17, 2017, 19:04:48
It's a hybrid but I just refer to it as a Rotax since that's what the top half of the motor is, http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=72424.0

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Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Feb 17, 2017, 19:51:13
It's a hybrid but I just refer to it as a Rotax since that's what the top half of the motor is, http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=72424.0

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Jeezus Billy how did I miss this one???  I haven't had time to read through it all yet but looks like an awesome project :o
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: BillyGoat4130 on Feb 17, 2017, 20:50:29
Jeezus Billy how did I miss this one???  I haven't had time to read through it all yet but looks like an awesome project :o

Well thank you for the kind words! You have a beautifully built bike here yourself. Us two-stroke guys got to stick together haha
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: Joon-yah on Feb 21, 2017, 09:36:23
Glad to see you're getting her all squared away bro
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Feb 21, 2017, 18:36:00
^^^^ Thanks :)  Getting closer to the finish video 8)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Mar 09, 2017, 18:09:19
Just took my carbs off to change the pilots to 40's (currently 45's).  Air screws aren't doing anything when I try to adjust them, in or out changes nothing so I'm trying the smaller pilots.  I also noticed that the slides on both carbs have different gaps at the bottom when they are both all the way down.  The right side is 4.5mm and the left is 3.9mm they are both 2.5 slides.  Not sure it matters when the idle is adjusted using the tapered screws.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: teazer on Mar 09, 2017, 19:53:35
That's odd.  Are they both closed at the engine side?  If not, what is causing one to hang up?

If they are closed, put the two slides facing each other and see if one has been modified to a larger cutaway. 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: irk miller on Mar 09, 2017, 20:09:11
This might sound obvious, but are the slides switched between the carbs? 
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: cxman on Mar 09, 2017, 20:44:13
measure the slides if they are both really 2.5 or teh same measurement from slide top to bottom of cut away

check the slide is not hung up in the bore and is not resting on the jet needle

if all that is ok check the carb part numbers i have seen this issue before when a carb was bored to a bigger size and they never undercut the carb floor groove that

the slide rests in

Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: 50gary on Mar 09, 2017, 21:10:23
An easy way to measure the cut is to put the slides on a surface table (towards the edge) and use your metric drill index as a "pin" to find the exact size cut.  Verify and go from there.
   Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: teazer on Mar 09, 2017, 21:16:35
Or do as I suggested and put them toe to toe on the kitchen table/office desk/ measuring marble slab and see if there's a difference - not as sophisticated but quick and easy to see if they are the same or not.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: clem on Mar 09, 2017, 23:44:41
I think it's usually the fact that the slides get installed backwards as opposed to switching them between carbs.
John are these new? If not did you clean out the air jets?

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Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Mar 10, 2017, 10:55:49
Ok guys thanks for all the suggestions but a bit of a false alarm 8)  I feel a bit supid now for not messing with them a bit more but for whatever reason after playing around with them for a little bit they both go down completely to the same level.  Not really sure what caused it in the first place though ???  I marked the slides to the carbs and the carbs were brand new a couple of years ago when I built the bike.
Clem are the air jets the air screws?  It is strange that adjusting the air screws didn't change a thing.  I am going to hopefully try running it again today and I will give it a run around the block to get a better idea of what it is doing.
Title: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: Ply318ci on Mar 10, 2017, 13:26:02
May or may not be helpful but when I had my RD350 I had the same problem turns out the carbs were just dirty and a through deep deep clean solved the problem.

Number 11 specifically was totally gummed up.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170310/c48d98659690950bb40dad75ac99bb87.jpg)


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Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: clem on Mar 10, 2017, 14:18:19
I was referring to number 28 in that diagram. On the stock RD carbs they are behind a brass ball. Doesn't look like yours have that brass ball.

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Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: jpmobius on Mar 10, 2017, 20:38:36
#28 is an air jet.  It functions exactly like #29, the pilot air screw except that it provides a fixed amount of air depending on the jet size instead of being a variable metering needle.  Stock RD carbs do indeed have this jet, but it is permanently made into the carb body.  It is not behind a ball on the 350 carbs.   It can be changed by drilling and tapping the bore it is in and using standard Mikuni air jets. The ball at 7:00 0-clock is just to block off the bore for the pilot air after it is drilled at the factory.  I have never had to remove it to adequately clean this air passageway - it only has air traveling through it so stays quite clean - of course you have to check it anyway with a jet of carb cleaner.  It is very important to understand the function of these two parts - the fixed size air jet and the needle if you want to be successful at properly cleaning the carb and getting it to perform correctly.  The air jet supplies air to the main fuel system and interacts with the main jet and emulsion tube (#11).  It functions like the pilot air screw/needle in that is supplies air to the main fuel supply like the needle supplies air to the pilot fuel supply.  If you look at the carbs construction, you will see that the horizontal bore for the air jet intersects the vertical bore for the emulsion tube.  Fuel gets sucked up into center of the emulsion tube through the main fuel jet #36, but before it gets to the top and enters the main bore of the carb, it gets mixed with the air supplied by the air jet inside the emulsion tube.  So if the jet is incorrectly sized or any part of the emulsion tube, its bore, the passageway for the air jet or the jet itself is dirty or damaged, the fuel mixture will be wrong.  The pilot system is the same. Air is supplied by the pilot metering needle.  The pilot system gets an adjustable air supply because the fuel/air needed at idly is so tiny that just a hair inaccuracy will screw up the idle and it would be too fussy to fit a fixed jet.  Anyway, the air from the needle goes to the pilot emulsion tube where it gets mixed with the fuel supplied by the pilot jet.  The pilot system and the main system are completely separate from each other and share no internal passageways or components.  You do not see a pilot emulsion tube in the exploded view because the tube is actually part of the pilot jet itself.  The pilot jet is just the size of the hole bored into the end of the jet.  The tubular part with all the little holes bored in it is the pilot emulsion tube.  Fuel gets sucked up through the jet in the end, and air from the needle gets sucked into all those little holes and mixes with the fuel before it ever goes into the main bore of the carb.  So when you take the carb apart to clean it, you have to remove the pilot jet with its made on emulsion tube and make sure all the little holes are clean, that the bore or well that it goes into is clean and that the passageway from the needle to the well is clean.  If you look at the pilot jet, you will see that the end that goes into the carb body first has a taper.  That taper seats to a mating taper in the body, so air in the well surrounding the pilot jet emulsion tube can't leak past the joint - all the air must go through all the little holes and mix with the fuel.  Once you understand this, it is easy to follow the paths of the air, fuel, and air/fuel mix and make sure the passageways are clean.  On most Mikuni VM carbs, the air for the pilot system is supplied by the bore at 8:00 o-clock. Often you can see the tip of the needle through this bore.  The air for the main system is at 6:00 o-clock.  If the carb is clean and disassembled, you should be able to shine a bright light into the emulsion tube bore - straight up from the bottom - and see the light through the main air jet - it is a tiny hole!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Mar 10, 2017, 21:04:28
#28 is an air jet.  It functions exactly like #29, the pilot air screw except that it provides a fixed amount of air depending on the jet size instead of being a variable metering needle.  Stock RD carbs do indeed have this jet, but it is permanently made into the carb body.  It is not behind a ball on the 350 carbs.   It can be changed by drilling and tapping the bore it is in and using standard Mikuni air jets. The ball at 7:00 0-clock is just to block off the bore for the pilot air after it is drilled at the factory.  I have never had to remove it to adequately clean this air passageway - it only has air traveling through it so stays quite clean - of course you have to check it anyway with a jet of carb cleaner.  It is very important to understand the function of these two parts - the fixed size air jet and the needle if you want to be successful at properly cleaning the carb and getting it to perform correctly.  The air jet supplies air to the main fuel system and interacts with the main jet and emulsion tube (#11).  It functions like the pilot air screw/needle in that is supplies air to the main fuel supply like the needle supplies air to the pilot fuel supply.  If you look at the carbs construction, you will see that the horizontal bore for the air jet intersects the vertical bore for the emulsion tube.  Fuel gets sucked up into center of the emulsion tube through the main fuel jet #36, but before it gets to the top and enters the main bore of the carb, it gets mixed with the air supplied by the air jet inside the emulsion tube.  So if the jet is incorrectly sized or any part of the emulsion tube, its bore, the passageway for the air jet or the jet itself is dirty or damaged, the fuel mixture will be wrong.  The pilot system is the same. Air is supplied by the pilot metering needle.  The pilot system gets an adjustable air supply because the fuel/air needed at idly is so tiny that just a hair inaccuracy will screw up the idle and it would be too fussy to fit a fixed jet.  Anyway, the air from the needle goes to the pilot emulsion tube where it gets mixed with the fuel supplied by the pilot jet.  The pilot system and the main system are completely separate from each other and share no internal passageways or components.  You do not see a pilot emulsion tube in the exploded view because the tube is actually part of the pilot jet itself.  The pilot jet is just the size of the hole bored into the end of the jet.  The tubular part with all the little holes bored in it is the pilot emulsion tube.  Fuel gets sucked up through the jet in the end, and air from the needle gets sucked into all those little holes and mixes with the fuel before it ever goes into the main bore of the carb.  So when you take the carb apart to clean it, you have to remove the pilot jet with its made on emulsion tube and make sure all the little holes are clean, that the bore or well that it goes into is clean and that the passageway from the needle to the well is clean.  If you look at the pilot jet, you will see that the end that goes into the carb body first has a taper.  That taper seats to a mating taper in the body, so air in the well surrounding the pilot jet emulsion tube can't leak past the joint - all the air must go through all the little holes and mix with the fuel.  Once you understand this, it is easy to follow the paths of the air, fuel, and air/fuel mix and make sure the passageways are clean.  On most Mikuni VM carbs, the air for the pilot system is supplied by the bore at 8:00 o-clock. Often you can see the tip of the needle through this bore.  The air for the main system is at 6:00 o-clock.  If the carb is clean and disassembled, you should be able to shine a bright light into the emulsion tube bore - straight up from the bottom - and see the light through the main air jet - it is a tiny hole!

Thank you for the explaination, it is much appreciated.  I hope to have some time tomorrow to work on the carbs.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: teazer on Mar 10, 2017, 23:51:54
Nice explanation Mobius. 

In general, if the slow speed jetting is non responsive to changes in the slow speed air screw, it means that the mixture is too rich or too lean to respond.

Main jet air jet is typically 2.0mm on a VM34 carb for a two stroke and rarely needs to be changed. The air jet changes the rate at which fueling changes with revs. So for the same sized main jet, a larger air jet will be much leaner at high revs than a smaller air jet but that difference is only at high revs.  At lower revs it makes little or no difference.  And yes, that's a variable with air speed where most of the time we are talking about different throttle openings.  Adds a whole new dimension.......
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Mar 11, 2017, 17:48:55
I was referring to number 28 in that diagram. On the stock RD carbs they are behind a brass ball. Doesn't look like yours have that brass ball.

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Mine has the brass ball.  I think I will remove the airscrew then blast it down in there with carb cleaner.

Original thought was to change the pilots from 45's to 40's but i'm wondering if i should go to 35's as the 40's still might not make much difference?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: jpmobius on Mar 11, 2017, 19:54:25
Here is a stock RD carb.  At 8:00 o-clock is the inlet for the pilot system. That brass you see in there is the pilot needle.  At 7:00 o-clock is the brass ball that closes off the drilling that connects to the pilot air supply.  At 6:00 o-clock you can see the main air jet down inside the main air inlet.  Typically on an off the shelf VM, the interchangeable air jet is in there but has a slot so you can screw it in and out.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: Ply318ci on Mar 11, 2017, 21:27:54
Emulsion tube that is what it was called. Mine had so much crap in it the little holes were plugged. Removed it, cleaned it, and the bike ran better and responded to the air screw better.


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Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: Ryan Stecken on Mar 12, 2017, 11:04:09
Watching this...
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Mar 21, 2017, 19:03:40
Ok guys finally had time to switch out the pilots from 45's to 35's.  Fired it up again and it seems worse although I was able to get it to tick over.  Air screws didn't seem to respond at all still.  Just nothing down low.  I did ride it around the block this time though and once you get it to clean up it flys ;D  but as soon as you drop the revs back down it has nothing down low >:(  I think I'll try teazers advice and go the other way and order some 60 pilots.  I have to d.o something!  On another note the twin disc set up on the front is bloody awesome, some serious stopping power there.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Apr 06, 2017, 19:12:56
#60 pilots arrived today, hopefully install and test tomorrow :)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: clem on Apr 07, 2017, 00:00:21
Didn't thevstock T500 come with a 30 pilot jet? Seems crazy to have to go twice as large on the pilot but I may be wrong. Just thinking out loud.

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Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: teazer on Apr 07, 2017, 01:27:18
Probably, but this bike is ported, has chambers and big carbs. Big carbs and a pipe that doesn't resonate at low revs , tends to result in slow air flow and hence the need for big jets to respond to the weaker signal.  John already tried going smaller on slow jets and it seemed to make things worse, so I suggested he go big and see if that makes a difference.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: 50gary on Apr 07, 2017, 08:57:35
Clem, that's correct, my T-500 is stock with 30 pilots.  For an apple and orange comparison, my YZ490 has a 40 pilot in a VM38 and runs well.
 Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Apr 07, 2017, 11:02:08
As Richard says I already went smaller and it seemed worse.  I hope to see a difference one way or the other with the 60's :)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: clem on Apr 07, 2017, 12:40:45
I didnt realize that John went larger on the carbs over stock.  What where they stock like 32mm?

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Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: teazer on Apr 07, 2017, 12:48:06
Correct.  32mm

Pipes and porting can make a big difference at low revs/small throttle openings though and pilot jets are cheap. Easy for me to say because I keep box loads of them in stock for exactly this sort of situation with a new build.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Apr 07, 2017, 12:56:08
Correct.  32mm

Pipes and porting can make a big difference at low revs/small throttle openings though and pilot jets are cheap. Easy for me to say because I keep box loads of them in stock for exactly this sort of situation with a new build.
After getting this one running right I'll have box loads of jets too ;D
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: teazer on Apr 07, 2017, 14:04:51
Perfect for that next project...
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: clem on Apr 07, 2017, 14:08:59
Haha. Another jet collection.

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Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: jimmer on Apr 07, 2017, 16:07:13
Welcome to the "Jet Club"
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Apr 07, 2017, 17:48:11
Perfect for that next project...

Next project ;D  I'm hoping to race the Baja 1000 (bike) and also do Pikes Peak so all projects are off until I get those out of the way 8)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on May 26, 2017, 18:11:19
Well I finally got the #60 pilots in and fired it up, unfortunately it is way worse with the big jets in there ???  So far I've tried 35's, 45's and 60's.  Going to try throwing the original 25's back in there.  Got to do something!  I really need a half a day where I can just work on the bike with a box full of jets in front of me.  It sounds great when it's on the main jet, I may even have to go a little bigger on those.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: cxman on May 27, 2017, 10:26:56
sounds like your throttle slide cut away my have gotten out if size for the mods you have done
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Jun 07, 2017, 20:43:45
Got the 25's in, hoping for test ride tomorrow 8)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Jun 07, 2017, 20:44:35
sounds like your throttle slide cut away my have gotten out if size for the mods you have done

Maybe need a larger cutaway to let more air in?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: cxman on Jun 07, 2017, 20:51:55
i need a review of what size carb and what you have in the carb slide jet needle needle  pilot main and air correct

motor and mods i have lost my place sorry

so i cant tell if you need richer (smaller cutaway) or leaner

from the size of the pilots i am wondering if you need smaller or you have to big a jet needle and no low end air velocity

so you have to run big pilot

fill me in then i will know
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Jun 08, 2017, 19:43:28
Cx man' here is the spec on my carbs:
vm34's
Main Jet - 260
Pilot Jet - 25
Needle Jet - Q2
Needle - 6FJ6
Needle clip position - Start in the middle
Slide Cutaway - 2.5
25:1 premix using castrol 747 and Sunnoco 110 unleaded race gas.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Jun 08, 2017, 19:49:31
Ok so I fired it up today and she does run better on the 25 pilots.  Still not great but I think I will try lowering the needles a little bit to see if that helps.  It still seems woolly down low.  While it was running I whipped off the uni filters to see if that what make a difference and it seemed to be marginally better.  What I noticed is that when you give it a big handful of throttle it seems to initially blast a good amount of vaporized fuel out the back of the carbs.

I will put the filters back on and take it out for a few miles tomorrow to see if it gets any better as I'm riding it.  Got to go and pick up some more unleaded race fuel first :)
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: 50gary on Jun 08, 2017, 20:18:28
John, what does your spark plug(s) look like?  Check them tomorrow on your ride.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: cxman on Jun 08, 2017, 20:20:38
first verify your initial timing and timing advance

and i found some old notes (old)

last race bike i messed with had this

Pilot - 35
Cutaway - 2.5
Main Jet - 260
Needle Jet - 159Q0
Needle - 6DP17 in second groove from top

no air correct jet

Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Jun 15, 2017, 21:42:36
Well I rode the 500 today and it was not good.  First off it had nothing down low then after about 1/4 mile it started running on one cylinder.  Managed to ease it back home and took the carbs off.  Left side carb had no gas in it and the left side plug was clean and not burnt at all.  Turned the gas tap on and a modest trickle coming from the right side fuel line and only the slightest drible on the left.  Disconnected the fuel line at the fuel tap and fuel flow there but not great.  Going to remove the tank and check the fuel tap for blockage.  I have my single fuel line coming out of the tap to an inline filter then another piece of single line to a Y piece then to the carbs.  Not sure why more gas flows to the right side than the left ???
Once I get the gas flowing correctly to the carbs I'm going to reinstall the 35 pilots  As I see it there is no reason why the bike shouldn't run half decent with them in there.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: 50gary on Jun 15, 2017, 22:13:02
How large, "inside" diameter is the fuel line from the petcock to the Y? 
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Sep 08, 2017, 19:54:20
first verify your initial timing and timing advance

and i found some old notes (old)

last race bike i messed with had this

Pilot - 35
Cutaway - 2.5
Main Jet - 260
Needle Jet - 159Q0
Needle - 6DP17 in second groove from top

no air correct jet



Thanks!
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Sep 08, 2017, 19:54:43
How large, "inside" diameter is the fuel line from the petcock to the Y? 
  Cheers, 50gary
1/4" Gary
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Sep 08, 2017, 19:55:38
Well I finally found some time to work on the 500 today! Totally went through the carbs again (got the petcock sorted too) and went back to my starting point for jetting except for using 35 pilots instead of 40's.

Carb settings:
vm34's
Main Jet - 260
Pilot Jet - 35
Needle Jet - Q2
Needle - 6FJ6
Needle clip position - Start in the middle
Slide Cutaway - 2.5

Premix 25:1 ratio using 110 leaded race gas

So I fire it up and starts first kick without using the choke (it's a hot day) so I let it idle for a while to warm up then try rev it a little bit and same old problemnothing down low at all if you coax it to the main jet it is sweet as a nut! So I take the foam uni's off and clean the oiled up plugs and give it another go and it fires right up. Runs slightly better without the filters but not by much :evil: What I notice though is that there just so much atomized fuel coming out the back of the carbs, if you put your hand near the carb just for a second it gets covered!
I'm not really sure what to do next :shock: Not sure if I did something wrong when I built the pipes and they are affecting it somehow but I doubt they could be too far off.
Lot's of head scratching going on >:(
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: clem on Sep 08, 2017, 21:07:12
A piston port engine will get the air filters a little dirty. If it started with out the choke that would indicate that the pilots are too rich. Can't remember if you posted it or not but did you tune for the highest idle on that size pilot?

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Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: farmer92 on Sep 08, 2017, 21:46:29
What are you running for oil?
If it's synthetic you could probably cut that ratio back a bit i would think. Certain racing synthetic oils have higher flash points so they are stable up to higher temps but they may foul up plugs a bit more if you aren't pushing the engine constantly.
Maybe something to consider.


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Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: jimmer on Sep 08, 2017, 22:11:06
Clem is spot on. Piston ports are sloppy, and when you factor in chambers and wild porting, it really juices up low speed stuff. I don't remember what your porting is, btw.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: jimmer on Sep 08, 2017, 22:12:12
And how is the mid range roll on?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Sep 08, 2017, 22:34:25
Thanks guys for the patience, input and responses :)  I'm using Castrol 747 which I don't believe is synthetic. 
Jimmer, mid range roll on ??? I have idle and top end (main jet) nothing in between.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: jimmer on Sep 08, 2017, 22:46:03
Porting?                                                                   This bike should pull like a freight train. The first port job I ever did,(20 years old) I made a perfectly good cylinder rev like hell, but had zero torque, and was slower than stock! Hard lesson for sure.  So, what porting do you have?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: jimmer on Sep 08, 2017, 22:55:54
I really wish you were closer. Such an awesome build,I'd love to help you get it sorted out. Keep plugging away .
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: jimmer on Sep 08, 2017, 23:17:11
Just stumbled across this on my phone while looking for something completely unrelated:
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: teazer on Sep 09, 2017, 00:48:54
I seem to recall that it was ported by a third party who may not want the porting data released.

Did I read that right that you have idle and main but no mid range?  That suggests either slide or needle & jet combo is too rich by far. 

What other needle and jet combos have you tried and what were the results?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: jimmer on Sep 09, 2017, 08:09:19
Also wondering what kind of cranking pressure do you have?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: cxman on Sep 09, 2017, 08:42:07
pilots 35 may need a 32.5

no air correct jet to start

2.5 slide

q0 needle jet

6dh4 needle 3rd or so groove to start you may need to go down a size depending on your bike

use a 135-140 main to start
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: teazer on Sep 09, 2017, 12:21:25
I like that needle and jet combo.  Much leaner off idle and similar at 3/4 open up.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Sep 11, 2017, 13:38:45
pilots 35 may need a 32.5

no air correct jet to start

2.5 slide

q0 needle jet

6dh4 needle 3rd or so groove to start you may need to go down a size depending on your bike

use a 135-140 main to start
Ok i'll try your suggestion for needle and needle jet, thanks.
Bit curious about the main jet size though, pretty much everyone else is around the 260ish size?
My slides are 2.5's :)
Not sure what the air correct jet is?
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: cxman on Sep 11, 2017, 16:41:39
are you running a single carb?

or twin carbs


a air correct jet goes in the small hole in the intake side at the 6 oclock position
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: johnu on Sep 11, 2017, 21:35:33
Twin carbs
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: jimmer on Sep 11, 2017, 21:50:38
I really like my single flatslide setup! Now back to our regularily scheduled program.........
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: cxman on Sep 12, 2017, 10:10:20
i have no idea why you would run a 260 main on a twin carb setup

i dont have anything that big in any of my jetting notes on that bike

i think that flat slide is great thats a 36mm isnt it

i just saw where on f the gp racing guys back in 2008 said he was running 260s but on a gp motor with chambers

seems awful big to me for the street and may simply be that the motor cant approach the draw limit on the jet i dont know

or he was not running pump gas
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: teazer on Sep 12, 2017, 10:59:39
I am surprised how small a main jet is being suggested. Race GT500 carbs I have cleaned have had 230/240 and 260 mains according to my notes.  Interestingly a TD3 or early Tz is typically 280-320, albeit they rev a little higher and are in a higher state of tune. 

That suggests that even in a relatively low state of tune, a T500 pulls in so much more air that it creates a stronger signal over the jets.

38mm on a GT750 runs 280-340.  I have seen 210s in 32mm carbs on a 750. Nothing as small as 135.

You have more experience with them than I do, but those are surprising small numbers.  It will be interesting to see what John's bike wants.
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: cxman on Sep 12, 2017, 12:04:39
you are probably right the notes i have are from 1977 and my memories from there are almost as fuzzy

its probably a mix up in recording the main
Title: Re: My Suzi T500 Project *New Video*
Post by: jpmobius on Sep 13, 2017, 18:42:41
The vm34s on my "street" RD have #260 mains just for reference.  Port timing is fairly conservative and the bike is reasonably friendly to drive.  I think the pilots are#35s, but would have to take them apart to know for sure.