DO THE TON

Blood Sweat Tears and Grease => Projects => Cafe Racers => Topic started by: Dale on Jan 18, 2011, 05:58:22

Title: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Jan 18, 2011, 05:58:22
Hey there.

So I started looking for a Guzzi last year. Ive always had a weakness for Italian machines, especially if there's a V-twin involved. I was initially hoping to find a LeMans, but every one I found that was in fair condition was out of my price range. A couple of Monza's and other V50's cropped up every now and again, but I wasn't sold.

Then I saw a post on BikeExif on Axel Budde's LeMans Racer, http://www.bikeexif.com/moto-guzzi-3 (http://www.bikeexif.com/moto-guzzi-3) and that for me was the tipping point. I couldn't afford a LeMans, but I could make a small block Guzzi into something. I was determined.

I had seen a Monza for around $800, but the crank wasn't good. The rest of the bike seemed ok. I figured, I could do worse so went to see if the guy still had it. He had just sold it. Anyways, I eventually found a MKII, not the best variant, but the bike looked in good order. It wasn't running, but all the signs were there that it was ok, and importantly, it wasn't butchered. So, in late August, the guy trailered the bike onto my drive.

Man, I couldn't resist. I wanted to get the bike running, ride it a bit, and make my decisions from there. But, I would say to myself, "Ok, I'm just going to take this apart, check it, and then put it back. etc. Come Saturday, and well, I just went too far. "Screw it, I'm taking this thing apart."

I'm really glad I did, because, had I run it, I would have trashed the rear drive. It had been "serviced" by someone who clearly didn't have a clue. This was my green light to drop the "...I'm gonna get the bike on the road first..." idea, and make it "...Im going to have to check everything and fix it..." idea.

Ive got some pics of the "plan" for the bike on my Members Introduction thread: 
http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=21591.0 (http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=21591.0)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Dale_V50II.jpg)


[edit > Ill just pop this pic here anyway... more on the intro if youre interested...]
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Moto_Guzzi_V50_Monza_MKII_darkgrey.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Moto_Guzzi_V50_Monza_MKII_yellowstripe.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Moto_Guzzi_V50_Monza_MKII_red_blkshocks.jpg)


 :D Saturday Morning (Early Sept 2010) - So Ill call this the "01_Stripdown"


(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/V50II_02.jpg)
10 minutes later....

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/V50II_03.jpg)

An hour (maybe) later...

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Teardown_01.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Bench_02.jpg)

Guzzi Frame up on the tressle table. Motor on the left ready for inspection!


Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 18, 2011, 06:54:12
The Motor.

(02_My Inspection)



So I opened up the motor. You always hope its going to be perfect right? Theres always that optimsitic, "Wow I found a real winner here!" thing going on in your head. But I was to be dissapointed. :-/

1. One of the pistons had siezed in the barrel. Not a heat sieze, - water had gotten in there (bike stood for a couple of years), and it had rusted. Luckily for me the inside of the cylinder is ok.
2. So - piston rings rubbish
3. Main bearings shot
4. Big End bearings shot
5. Clutch plate sitting in a sea of oil due to seal failure.

Managed to get everything I needed. Big Ends and Main bearings - totalling around $400 for the 8 halves! Hey you cant cry over this stuff! Its part of the risk you take, but it can still hurt.

Big End Bearings: (a small fortune)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Big_End_bearings.jpg)

- Decided that the lack of hp on the 500cc unit could do with some encouragement by gas flowing the heads and skimimg, amongst some other mods I'm going to do.

- Also had the crank balanced.

- I'm still waiting for the heads to come back, due to the general December slowdown.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Erskine on Jan 18, 2011, 08:16:24
Bloody brilliant.
I can see why this http://www.bikeexif.com/moto-guzzi-3 (http://www.bikeexif.com/moto-guzzi-3) tipped the scales!
I'll be following your build for sure.
The other bike in your workshop ........ can you tell me more about the tank on it? looks rad.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 18, 2011, 08:50:37
Hey Erksine,

Yeah, that's a beautiful Guzzi.


As for the tank on the other bike, I was originally going for a very industrial look on the bike in general. A good friend of mine suggested using a fire extinguisher as the tank. :-) I really liked the idea, and so I mocked up a light-weight version of the extinguisher he brought to my house. After a while I decided to refine the basic cylinder shape a bit and add a curve to the top. So what we've got now is this:

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Parts/tank_web.jpg)

I use a technique whereby I pre mould thick card pieces which, I then wood glue together. This gives me a good symetrical shape. I then fibreglass over, and smooth. A mould is then made and I produce the part from that mould.

The fender on the bike designed similarly -

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Parts/Fender_design_web.jpg)
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Erskine on Jan 18, 2011, 09:12:13
I thought it was a fire extinguisher! It's something that has crossed my mind as a fuel cell, and it's great to see it actually done. How did you fabricate the channel underneath for the top tube? Or did you weld in a channel cut out of an old tank?
Thanks for the inspiration, I've a friend who is always salvaging old extinguishers to make stuff out of.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Slice on Jan 18, 2011, 09:19:20
Dale - I have a feeling this bike is going to be EPIC... Im stoked to see what comes next!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 18, 2011, 09:20:30
Done exactly the same as the top - fibreglass over the card. Makes up a very strong shape. The channel fits snugly on the frame, with a high density foam layer
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 18, 2011, 09:22:18
Dale - I have a feeling this bike is going to be EPIC... Im stoked to see what comes next!

Hey Slice thanks man!

Now if only I had a Persian carpet to build it on - like someone else I know! :-)
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 18, 2011, 10:57:02
(03_Rear Drive)

So this bike was designed in 1974.
The motor is a stressed unit that makes up the rigity of the motorcycle. Sound familiar? Design wise, pretty forward thinking for the time.


So, prioritising what needed to be done, I figured at this point, with the motor being worked on, my next step would be to look at the swingarm and rear drive hub.

As I started loosening the hub bolts, oil started flowing out of the bolt holes! Basically, a bolt had come loose in there and pretty much unleashed mayhem, tearing up some of the aluminium casing internally. Not only that, someone had "fixed" it all up. No shim spacers, no gaskets, I was convinced that the crown and pinion wheels were not lined up properly. Thankfully it looked like the bike hadn't run since the "repair".
Later when I tested the unit with Engineers Marking Blue, my fears were confirmed. The dumbass who worked on the bike had just tossed the shims away! WTF!?


This is another unit I got from the guy I bought the bike from. (complete with the necessary shims this time)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/RearDrive_02.jpg)



Replacement unit: Cleaning up and setting up.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/ReadDrive_hub.jpg)


New bearings. Painted up.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Rear_Drive_01.jpg)

.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Cafe Build Diary
Post by: treitz on Jan 18, 2011, 11:21:44
Wow this is going to be awesome. Love the bike!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Cafe Build Diary
Post by: gpreciado on Jan 18, 2011, 12:35:10
man, i love guzzis i really like the 748 you have sitting in the background!!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 18, 2011, 14:16:35
Cool thanks gpreciado! Yup I love that bike. I still remember the first time I saw a 916, and I always dreamed of getting one. Then I stumbled on this 2000 748R a few years ago, and really liked the revvy engine and the fact that it was an R model Ė some really special stuff on it compared to the basic 748 model. Done a lot of performance upgrades on it too.
 
 (http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Parts/dale748R_3up.jpg)

Moto Guzzi's are just on another level for me, cant quite put my finger on it though. Love the Ducs too though...
.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Slice on Jan 18, 2011, 14:21:05
Haha, those carpets put me in the dog house with the wife for a week when she saw what was going on... Keep up the solid work bro.
-Slice

Hey Slice thanks man!

Now if only I had a Persian carpet to build it on - like someone else I know! :-)
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 18, 2011, 14:26:32
Are you kidding! HAHAHA! Man youve got balls! :-)
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 18, 2011, 14:43:16
( 04_Swingarm )
 
Beautiful, cast aluminium swingarm housing the drive shaft, with integarted rear disc brake in the drive hub. Italian Engineers are Designers and vice versa. Form follows function is taken to incredible levels in so many aspects. You have to admire this. Fanboy guilty as charged.
 
I smoothed out the casting marks and seams, and then painted it up with a few coats of Hammerite. Pics here are not final paint.
 
Straight off the bike. Not bad.
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Swingarm_06.jpg)
 
First pass...
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Swingarm_04.jpg)
 
First couple of layers... (still a few imperfections)
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Swingarm_03.jpg)
 
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Swingarm_01.jpg)
 
Just couldnt resist... my new shocks arrived... :-)
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Swingarm_02.jpg)
 
...
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 19, 2011, 08:13:30
( 05_Forks )

1. Fork stanchions were slightly bent. Had them straightened, re-coated and machined.
2. Springs checked and still in spec.
3. New seals and dust covers.
4. Removed last remnants of paint from the damper unit and polished them up.
5. New oil.
6. New stainless steel cap screws fitted.


(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Forks.jpg)

.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 19, 2011, 09:56:32
(06_Steering Head)

The bike has a conventional handlebar setup which mounts onto the top of the steering head with a clamp.

Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Slice on Jan 19, 2011, 11:20:01
Nice work on the top of the steering head... Like a mirror.
;)
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Cafe Build Diary
Post by: LOCKARD666 on Jan 19, 2011, 11:44:20
those 4 holes would be a great place for oil pressure/high beam/neutral/turn signal led's.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Cafe Build Diary
Post by: crazypj on Jan 19, 2011, 11:58:40
Been a long time since I was into one of those rear bevel boxes.(leaky seals)
 Had a couple of Guzzi 500's, like them a lot.
 They were great with Bosch electrics (although switches a bit strange on early models)
 Had the 750 for a few months, more powerful but didn't 'feel' the same
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Cafe Build Diary
Post by: sxecafe on Jan 19, 2011, 14:04:45
Beautiful job so far, man. Congrats.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 19, 2011, 16:00:26
Nice work on the top of the steering head... Like a mirror.
Hey thanks man, Nothin' like a bit o' ol' polishn' :-)
 
 
those 4 holes would be a great place for oil pressure/high beam/neutral/turn signal led's.
Crap thats a good idea. I never thought of that! Thanks a bunch for the idea. I'll bear this in mind when it comes to the instruments! ....
 

Been a long time since I was into one of those rear bevel boxes.(leaky seals)
 Had a couple of Guzzi 500's, like them a lot.
 They were great with Bosch electrics (although switches a bit strange on early models)
 Had the 750 for a few months, more powerful but didn't 'feel' the same
I'm really happy to hear from so many different sources that this bike is really nice to live with and ride. Great to know! Thanks for the ecouragement!
 

Beautiful job so far, man. Congrats.
Thanks sxecafe!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 19, 2011, 16:52:16
( 07_Clip-Ons )
 
The forks are 32mm.
I had a set of clip-ons that were slightly larger up in diameter. Cant exactly remember what they were.
Managed to find some 40mm aluminium tubing 1.2mm thick, which would give me pretty close to what I needed.
Cut it down to make sleaves. Fits perfectly.
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/clip_on_01.jpg)
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/clip_on_02.jpg)
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/upfront_03.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/upfront_02.jpg)
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Juggernaut on Jan 19, 2011, 23:59:44
You are going to have a beautiful bike. Some day I may have a Guzzi. They just look really cool. Great job so far!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Onion Man on Jan 20, 2011, 00:13:59
dude this ride is looking killer... I hadn't thought about cutting the mounts off my triple tree but now I have no choice because now there all see.. thanks hahah... Did you just knock them off with an angle grinder then polish them with a belt sander so something?? what kind of grinder discs/sand paper/files did you use?? please do tell I need them gone!!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 20, 2011, 03:50:56
Thanks Juggernaut. This is a dream bike for me, so its really cool to be working on it! :-)

Onion Man, yes, an angle grinder is pretty much my tool of choice here! :-) As I said, you have to be really careful to not go too far.
There's no EDIT > UNDO.

I used a cutting disc to to get the bulk of the material off, and then used a flap disc to get the shape to about 95%.

Then using a fairly fine file got it to about 99% of the shape. Remember, its going to be really tough to polish out any deeper marks, so you have to be patient, and do it right, or you're just going to end up doing more work than necessary.

Then I sand it down to see where I'm at, and for the deeper marks, I wrap sandpaper around a fine file, and file them down.

Final step is polishing compound on an abrasive wheel, working your way down to finer compounds and wheels.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 20, 2011, 05:38:05
( 08_Brake Discs )

I'm bouncing around a bit, but figured since the wheels are such a definitive part of the look of a bike, that I would post this.



So, started up cleaning up some rusty bits...

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Rusty.jpg)

- Removed the rust from the cast iron discs, and painted up the insides with Hammerite.

- Then we had a huge storm, and some rain got into my garage and wet some of the parts...

- The discs rusted instantly.

- Now, this means, I'm going to have to live with brown discs, because any exposure to water simply brings on surface rust.
Sure, as soon as you brake, it rubs off, but you're always going to have that thin brown line on the edges.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/RearDisc_01.jpg)

Found these Stainless replacement discs...

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Parts/19613335.jpg)

Advertised for $195. Not sure if that's *each* or for *a pair*.

Plus side here is:

1. They're drilled
2. Much lighter
3. Wont rust


Down side:

1. Not easy on the wallet
2. Finish doesn't look great, but I can sort that out.

If anyone can give me some pointers on this issue, please do.

Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 20, 2011, 11:01:28
( 09_Wheels )

- Powder coated the wheels.

- I had an almost new Michelin Macadam 120/90/18 so fitted it to the rear, and got a 110/80/18 for the front.

- Really good feeling popping new bearings in!

- Bolted up the refurbished disc brakes with stainless steel cap screws.

- Rounded off nicely with new metal valve caps.


(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Front_Wheel_before.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Front_Wheel.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/RearWheel.jpg)
Title: Re: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: BigBSBusa on Jan 20, 2011, 13:29:11
Missed the beginning of this build and sorry that I have.  It's looking great.  One of these days I will get back to my own project, but for now I'll just enjoy the work you and everyone else is doing!
Title: Re: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: bikeboy on Jan 20, 2011, 19:11:20
Awesome work so far fella  8)

Those cast discs pose a bit of a quandary don't they? I understand they're a better braking material than stainless, but the down side is the surface rust. I think if I was in your situation, I'd retain the iron.

keep those updates coming  ;)

cheers
ian
Title: Re: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 21, 2011, 03:55:21
Hey BigBSBusa, thanks for dropping in here. :-) Enjoy the break! :-)


I understand they're a better braking material than stainless, but the down side is the surface rust.

I wasn't aware of that. The stainless ones I found have cross drilling. Wonder if that would compensate, and give me similar performance to what the standard irons are? Dunno? I'm not an expert on discs.

And you know, I think youre right, just keep the current discs - they *work*, and in the future, if it really bothers me I can always swop out. The rust is part of the "personality" and quirks of an older bike anyway.

Thanks for the info Ian.
Title: Re: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: jackstraw650 on Jan 22, 2011, 10:26:02
Dale, love your little MG!  You have done an outstanding job.  Can't wait to see how it finishes up.  Cast iron is generally considered to be a much better rotor material than stainless steel.  Supposedly the iron comes up to optimum functioning temperature much quicker than SS and then throws off the excess heat quicker, too.  The reason that the bike manufacturers have gone almost exclusively to SS is basically an aesthetic marketing decision.  They didn't want to hear "what's wrong with my brakes......they are rusting away!"  Coupled with trying to settle a bunch of ridiculous warranty claims, they just bit the bullet and used the SS rotors.
 I do have a question about your bike.......bear with me 'cause I have no idea how you are planning on finishing out the rear wheel area.  Are you planning on running some kind of rear fender?  It would seem that with your current set up, the back of your engine and drive unit would end up being sprayed with water and various damaging road crud.  It would be a shame for that to mess up all the hard work you have done.  Have you considered extending the seat pan about 6 inches and maybe making something like the "tidy tails" you see on modern sport bikes?  Just a thought!
Title: Re: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: 50gary on Jan 22, 2011, 13:34:01
I'd keep the iron rotors as well.  Better braking and they're the original.  To the 'cognoscenti' it's a mark of coolness.  People who know will know they're iron and not simply neglected.  It's like riding Tubulars on a race bicycle, the right people know what they're looking at.  I wouild also cross drill them, better initial bite, better outgassing, slightly lighter, (rotating mass) very cool look.  Do not chamfer the holes de-burr only.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Rocan on Jan 22, 2011, 18:49:48
i agree. i would run iron. since those rotors dont float, i would thing that with that amount of offset the stainless would be VERY susceptible to warping.


or, what i would realllyyy do, is get some alloy spacers machined and mount whatever modern rotor thats of the same diameter to that. would be lighter, brake WAY better, look better (in my opinion) and last a lot longer. probably be just as pricy as the stainless rotors.
Title: Re: Re: Moto Guzzi V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 23, 2011, 12:31:13
Thanks guys for the thoughts and info on the discs. Ive leaned a whole bunch just by you guys giving me feedback. Thats what makes forums like this great.
 
First and foremost is functionality, and the fact that the irons are best for the job seals it. Taking the next step, as you say 50gary by cross drilling pushes the effectiveness even further, not to mention making it cooler (in both ways :-). Good to know on the burring.
 
Rocan, sure, that is a solution, and a smart one, but the amount of work, costs and specialised tools required to fasten and float the discs would be overkill for my build.
 
jackstra650, thanks alot. Appreciate the explanation.

I do have a question about your bike.......bear with me 'cause I have no idea how you are planning on finishing out the rear wheel area.  Are you planning on running some kind of rear fender?  It would seem that with your current set up, the back of your engine and drive unit would end up being sprayed with water and various damaging road crud.  It would be a shame for that to mess up all the hard work you have done.  Have you considered extending the seat pan about 6 inches and maybe making something like the "tidy tails" you see on modern sport bikes?  Just a thought!

The idea is to put an aluminium plate directly onto the frame along the two sidecover struts, and take it down as far as possible. I would have to check once the bike was mocked up whether I would have to panel beat a buldge into the plate to compensate for when the rear shocks are at full compression, and how close the tyre gets to the plate. As for shifting the seat back, the line of flinging debris off the wheel will definitely be taken into account. I'm a bit of a sucker for the rear wheel sticking out as much as possible, but the practical placement of stuff will dictate to a large degree where it will go, and as you say, if the seat is further back, it helps with the number plate placement and angle...

[Edit] > Oh, and of course, the length of the seat would have to accommodate the rider, and the concept may not be in line with that... Ill only know when I get to that point.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/frame.jpg)
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 24, 2011, 05:21:06
( 10_Exhaust )

Thought about whether I wanted the exhaust matt or shiny for about 5 seconds.

The powder coating guy showed me this black powder coating which can withstand temperatures up to 800 deg Celsius.

The Exhaust cones are not the prettiest, but I kinda liked the neutrality of the shape, and I want to prioritize spend on other areas.

That, and they are made from Stainless Steel.

When I opened them up I was surprised to see that each muffler was of a different design. The one was shorter than the other, the shorter one being open on the one end. I can categorically state that they haven't been modified, and the pop rivet holding them in the cone looked factory.


Does anyone have any knowledge around this?


I have never seen such restricted units. It baffles me that they can actually expel air at all! Spoke to a friend of a friend who builds racing exhausts for a living. Showed them to him, and he suggested the best thing to do would be to drill 12mm holes into the mufflers. "No bigger - 12mm is perfect" he said.
Turns out, he had one of these V50's when he was younger. Again - had great things to say about the bike and its handling.

So I drilled the holes - Damn! The material had hardened. Cutting oil all the way.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Exhaust_01.jpg)


The lower exhaust clamps were in a bit of a state, not un-fixable, but I found these great stainless steel clamps.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Exhaust_clamp.jpg)


The header spacers were pretty rusted up, but I got them looking better than expected with a copper brush.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Exhaust_spacers.jpg)


New gaskets :-)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Exhaust_gaskets.jpg)




Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 24, 2011, 09:22:53
( 11_Intake )

This motorcycle has a massive air box. The two carburetors feed into a chamber via a set of very angled intake manifolds. This chamber then has a big plastic tubular structure which houses a long cylindrical filter. Breather pipes from the cylinder also feed into it along with an oil recovery pipe from the sump.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/air_box_01.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/inlet_manifold.jpg)


Now, I want the bike to:

1. Breathe better.
2. Have a more straightened out intake manifold for performance reasons.
3. Have as little bulky equipment in the engine area as possible.
4. Have as much clear space in the side panel area.


Right now it has:

1. Fairly restrictive breathing.
2. Very curved intake manifolds.
3. A huge air filter box that fills up the space between the engine, tank and battery compartment, making up a large amount of space.
4. A massive battery taking up the entire side panel area.




So may plan is two phased. ( I think ).

Phase 1.
- Get rid of the air box, and fit conical air filters directly to the carburetors.
- Make up a smaller version of the air box to service the oil recovery and breather pipes. Oil from the engine needs to come up, settle, and drain back. Breather pipes need to be filtered.

So this is what Iím thinking right now:
Let me know if this is not sound.


(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/AirFilters.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/CirculatingBreatherSystem.jpg)




Phase 2.
- Fabricate straightened out intake manifolds.
- Move the battery forward and out of the way, creating a nice cavity where the side panels used to be.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/IntakeManifolds.jpg)




The objective is to achieve this:

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Moto_Guzzi_V50_Monza_MKII_darkgrey_twotone_cavity.jpg)



Please let me know what you guys think, and whether this is a good solution, or I'm missing something here... :-)
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: motofiaccone on Jan 24, 2011, 10:14:56
I love it!
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Slice on Jan 24, 2011, 10:49:01
Yep - This project is as suspected.... wicked!
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: 50gary on Jan 24, 2011, 11:16:56
I would not take out one air box then go through the trouble of making a smaller one.  I would also look into buying a (I know they're costly) a lithium battery, they are compact, lighter by almost half and yet powerful. This gives up valuable real estate in a crowded area.  Just a note, the different muffler packing had you "baffled" pun intended?  I wonder if there might be a curved and contoured inner fender that could be adapted between the rear tire and the engine area?  On my CX500 cafe project I used the existing plastic inner fender and cut it down it worked well and didn't show.  Great bike and I like your style.  Before I forget, I highly recommend Race Tech fork emulators, they will transform your front end.
     Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 25, 2011, 04:26:21
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: doodoo on Jan 25, 2011, 04:55:02
Wow! can't believe I missed this! Im usually all over Guzzis and BMWs! Awesome idea and build so far man!
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: bikeboy on Jan 25, 2011, 05:01:45
Please let me know what you guys think, and whether this is a good solution, or I'm missing something here... :-)

I'm not familiar with your carbs, but if they've been designed to feed from a common airbox (like Hondas CV series), the you'll have performance issues running them on pods. You'll be chasing jetting issues trying to sort them out. Maybe the Guzzi's are different??

Love what you're doing.

cheers
ian
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 25, 2011, 09:14:05
Hi Ian,

The thought did cross my mind, and I'm sure that I will have to change the jetting somewhat...
I really think it will be worth it though.

The bike is running a Dell'Orto PHBH 28 BD on the right and a PHBH 28 BS on the left...

I've got a set of newer Dell'Ortos from a 1980 model. But not sure exactly what they are, haven't spent much time on the carbs yet.

----
Hey doodoo. Thanks for the kind words.
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 26, 2011, 07:21:48
( 12_Motor )

Just spoke to the guy who's gas flowing and skimming the heads. Says they should be ready by Friday.

Finally!

Iíve been waiting almost 2 months. The December shutdown compounded by the fact that he was finishing up a lot of loose ends with other customers, ( and I wasn't calling him every day ) meant that my job was de-prioritized. Itís not a big deal, as I know this guys work, he does a good job, so I was willing to wait. I didnít really need it up until now, so pretty stoked about getting it by the weekend.


In the meantime, Iíve buffed up the tappet covers, and made up head guards...

I made up a DXF file for the head guards and gave it to a local CNC shop.


(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/head_protectors.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/heads_cleaning.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/head.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Head_headguard.jpg)

[Edit] > The final product

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/TappetCovers.jpg)
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 26, 2011, 07:23:29
Once you start polishing you cant stop. Various other polished bits...

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Aluminium.jpg)
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: beachcomber on Jan 26, 2011, 09:46:58
Nice job - I love Guzzis.
 
here's a pic of my 98% completed Le Mans Cafe Racer back in 1995 'ish.
 
I just got all the parts together to complete it and a Danish guy made me a ridiculous offer that I couldn't refuse !  One of those "wish I still had" bikes.
 
re: the carbs - ditch the airbox, go with  velocity stacks or cones [ stacks look better ].
 
I relented on the Red theme and eventually went with stainless downpipes and Ducati Conti "silencers".
 
(http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx155/vonheyda/Bikes/img511.jpg)
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 26, 2011, 09:53:21
WOW, Ive *never* seen a bike painted like that before...! Now that's unique! Cool.

Yeah I know what you mean about having to sell stuff and always wishing later on that you didn't need to, and that you still had them. Ive got two such vehicles, a bike and a car. Anyways...

Thanks for sharing this.

Yup, I'm pretty adamant on the air box going.
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: GoBears0305 on Jan 26, 2011, 10:25:38
Loving this build thread and all the detailed planning (instead of just diving in with an angle grinder and a big hammer...i'm guilty of this).  Can't wait to see how this turns out.
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: bikeboy on Jan 26, 2011, 16:24:27
nice work on those guards. very 'factory' looking

ian
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 27, 2011, 03:46:47
Loving this build thread and all the detailed planning (instead of just diving in with an angle grinder and a big hammer...i'm guilty of this).  Can't wait to see how this turns out.

Well, I gotta tell you your bike is one of my favourites, and I've started following your build. So whatever you're doing its working IMO. That '81 Honda CX500 is rocking. :-) Contrary to what other guys are saying, I even like the larger seat on it...

Thanks for the encouragement. You know how it goes - you gotta keep motivated, or it just falls by the way side, especially when you're up against a bunch of issues etc.

nice work on those guards. very 'factory' looking

ian

He he, thanks Ian. I can't take any credit for the design of the guards - I used reference that I found on the internets.
But "factory" is exactly what I'm going for - making the bike look as if it was "meant" to look that way off the shelf, but not.

Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 27, 2011, 06:37:33
( 12_Motor_Continued... )

Just got my crankshaft back from balancing.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Crank_balanced_01.jpg)
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 27, 2011, 07:07:57
( 12_Motor_Continued... )


Prepping for the bottom end.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/BottomEnd_02.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/BottomEnd_01.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/BottomEnd_03.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/BottomEnd_04.jpg)



New seals, gaskets, oil filter...

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Engine_gaskets_01.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Seals.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/HeadGasket.jpg)


Timimg cover etc...

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Cases.jpg)


So, this has been my shopping list for the motor and gearbox so far:

    Cylinder base gasket
    Head gasket
    Intake manifold gasket
    Front transmission case gasket
    Rear drive flange gasket
    Exhaust gasket
    General Gasket (basic) set for V50
    Piston ring set
    Seal kit, engine/transmission-rear drive
    Clutch friction plate
    O-ring, cylinder head small twins
    Camshaft seal for small twins
    UFI oil filter
    Big End bearings
    Main bearings
    General bearings
    Cam Chain

And for services:

- Gas flowing heads
- Skimming heads



Ok, so I'm in the thick of it.

I'm pretty apprehensive about doing this on my own.

I would normally have asked my dads help when I got stuck, and to check that all the tolerances and torquing etc are all correct, but he's not available.

So I'm considering getting a guy I know to reassemble the motor for me. Peace of mind knowing that a pro has done it right.

I've pumped so much time, effort, not to mention blood money into this project that I'm thinking I should just be smart about it. I want to be able to do this myself, or should I say, have the *confidence* to do this myself, but ... maybe next time... Being a little chickenshit? mmm.
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Slice on Jan 27, 2011, 11:30:16
You are actually the king of the polishing wheel - Anymore and your project needs to get renamed "mirror". ;)
-Slice
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 27, 2011, 15:47:44
Yeah well not much else to polish up except maybe a few aluminium parts left, like the gauges mounts that I still have to make up. I'm toying with the idea of chroming the front mudguard instead of painting, and thats going to be only shiny stuff left.
 
 
---------
 
Uggh. I got the heads back from the gasflowing guy, (nice job thankfully) and then checked the barrels with the new piston rings. The barrels are out of spec... like 0.5mm out! Its just another unforseen expense Ive got myself now - having to sort the barrels out. Really feeling irritated with this build right now. I know it will pass, but its just another thing. The only *unknown* remaing is the brake cylinders and carbs. After that its ok, I think. So heads have gone in to have the barrels sorted.... >:( 
 
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: 50gary on Jan 27, 2011, 16:01:19
You could send the pistons and cylinders to Millennium Technologies and have the bores Nikasil plated they will do the bores to match the pistons. Nikasil is smoother, rounder, and lube friendly.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 28, 2011, 04:27:11
Thanks for the pointer 50gary. Ill look into these guys. Also going to stop cry'n like a baby over this, and get on with it. I was really frustrated yesterday, and this motor has turned out costing me a mint.

But anyways, thats what I signed up for, so moving right along!

BTW, does nikasil plating require specialilsed rings? I seem to remember something like that...

Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 28, 2011, 05:27:19
( 13_Gearbox )
Getting ready to clean up and inspect.


(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Gearbox.jpg)

New clutch plate! :-)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/ClutchPlate.jpg)

Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: 50gary on Jan 28, 2011, 13:24:57
Nikasil will work with regular piston rings typical Weisco or similar just not a chrome ring.  The cost would be $190.00 per cylinder and you send your pistons to them for fitting.  Side note; I just got off the phone with a Millennium salesman (Scott), I'm in Michigan USA so I mentioned snowmobiles. He told me at this time of year they  receive 250 snowmobile cylinders per day. Busy shop.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: barnicle on Jan 28, 2011, 14:28:20
As far as the battery what you want is the lithium nanophosphate made buy A123. you can find them on e-bay as single 3volt cells, and wire them up, or buy them pre wired. here is one source   http://www.customfighters.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31183 (http://www.customfighters.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31183)
If you choose to wire your own you can fit then into more unusual locations (I have mine inside a tube on my frame ;) )
you are better off if you find cells that have tab prewelded on to them. Soldering directly to the battery must be done carefully so as not to heat the battery up to much. I got mine from this guy on e-bay with the tabs prewelded http://myworld.ebay.com/ebaymotors/sz_ohmygod (http://myworld.ebay.com/ebaymotors/sz_ohmygod) 
I was very happy with them.
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: dewjantim on Jan 28, 2011, 17:29:02
Hey Dale..... great detailed build you have going on. That is going to be one kick a$$ Guzzi. I am with you on getting someone to help when you get stuck or are in over your head. I have a few mechanic friends who I call on from time to time to help me. Sometimes I even pay them  to do some of the work for me, especially if it involves expensive parts and critical clearances. I hate to screw stuff up and have to pay for parts all over again..... :'( :'( :'( .
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Jan 31, 2011, 10:32:46
Thanks for the info 50gary. I figured It would be around $200 per cylinder. I see the Guzzi cylinders are nikasil already...

250 snowmobile cylinders per day! *wowsers*. :-)

Hey barnicle, thanks a lot for the links. I haven't had a look yet, but will definirtley be following up on this shortly. So you put yours in a tube on the frame! That sounds pretty damn cool. Do you a pic posted anywhere? Would love to see it!

dewjantim, appreciate the encouragement, and the sound advice. Ive taken the bottom end in to be reassembled, and I'm going to drop the cylinders off at the same guy when they're done. Just makes sense right now.

And then I can get on with this build. Ive got a bunch of small things to do in the meantime, but I'm kinda wanting to get the bike mocked up and really get my teeth back into it again.


----- And thanks to all the Moto Guzzi guys who have been emailing me. Don't know where you all are from exactly, but its great to know you're enjoying the build thread here! Wow. I'm really taken aback! Thanks for the interest! :-)
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Feb 01, 2011, 07:42:09
While I'm waiting for the motor, here's some other stuff that's been happening...

When taking the bike apart, there were some indications that the bike had obviously been dropped at some point in its 50K miles history. Nothing major though. The fork stansions were *slightly* oval, the clutch lever end had some scrapes, and when I took the headlamp off, I noticed that the rim had been mounted 90deg offset from its proper position, and it had deep gouges in it. The offset mounting done to hide the gouges which now were at the bottom instead of on the side...


(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Headlight_01.jpg)

I straightened it out as much as I could, and then took it in to have the gouges filled, and plated... The guys did an awesome job...

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/headlight_ring_B.jpg)

The headlamp cone was a little banged up, not too bad - just a couple of dents. I knocked them out and had it powdercoated matt black.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Headlight.jpg)

Cleaned up the plastic components and fitted.

Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Slice on Feb 01, 2011, 09:39:06
Thats a nice bucket... maybe its becuase its early and I havent ate breakfast; but it looks like a good bowl for cereal at the moment ;)
-slice
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Maritime on Feb 01, 2011, 10:40:37
Love this build, I hope to get myself a Guzzi some day, going to keep watching the transformation of this one.
 
Cheers,
 
Maritime
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Feb 01, 2011, 11:51:00
Thats a nice bucket... maybe its becuase its early and I havent ate breakfast; but it looks like a good bowl for cereal at the moment ;)
-slice

He he. That put a smile on my face. I don't think Ill ever be able to see this headlamp in the same way again! Thanks Slice!  ;D

Thanks Maritime! Glad you like the build so far. Man I'm so itching to get that motor back so I can do some "real work"!
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: dewjantim on Feb 01, 2011, 20:49:55
Just keep dem' updates comin' Dale. Guzzis' are highly underrated, great sport and touring bikes. And that motor...... lets just say it pulls like a tractor....hehehe. Many years ago I had an 850 T3 which I painted red with a 1/4 fairing, low bars, and Harley XR1000 exhaust..... everyone thought it was a LeMans......
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: TonyH on Feb 02, 2011, 20:18:40
Great looking project Dale, I look forward to seeing how it turns out.  I've got a 1982 V50iii myself, lightly cafe'd, and it's a really sweet ride.
 
Have you done all the standard engine mods while you've got it open, like enlarging the oil dowels?
 
Putting on pods instead of the airbox should be no problem, I think most V50s have this done sooner or later (mine certainly has).  The easiest way to deal with the breather hoses is just to install a small bottle somewhere discreet and lead the hoses to it, then empty it each time you do an oil change. 
 
Cheers
 
Tony
 
 
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Feb 03, 2011, 15:19:48
dewjantim, I can just imagine what that bike looked like from your description, and yes it definitley conjures up a Le Mans in my head! Nice.
 
 
Hey Tony,
 
Thanks for posting. Very nice to meet someone else with a similar bike! Please post a pic! Would love to see it! :-)
 
Have you done all the standard engine mods while you've got it open, like enlarging the oil dowels?

mmm. Now Mike (flashman) on Wild Guzzi mentioned a similar thing to me regarding drilling the transmission housings to feed oil up to the pinion carrier bearings...
 
Is this what youre referning to?
 
I believe its laid out in Guzziology - I WILL be ordering my copy shorty.
 
And yes, with regards the pods - nice to know that its done a lot. Did you change your jetting at all?
Making up a small container for the breather hoses should be simple enough. So this is pretty standard as well then I gather?
This is my first Moto Guzzi, so I was speculating...
 
Thanks again for your time and advice! :-)
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: TonyH on Feb 03, 2011, 21:26:17
Hi Dale
 
The oil dowels take oil up to the heads, they run between the push rod tunnels.  However, on further checking it seems the mod isn't recommended for early V50s (mark i and ii), I think coz they had smaller oil pumps.
 
My V50 already had pods on it when I got it, so I don't know if the carbs were re-jetted, sorry.  I may be able to find out though, will ask.
 
I think the oil bottle is a pretty standard trick, it certainly works well.
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Feb 04, 2011, 07:48:15
The oil dowels take oil up to the heads, they run between the push rod tunnels.  However, on further checking it seems the mod isn't recommended for early V50s (mark i and ii), I think coz they had smaller oil pumps.

Right! Thanks. Wouldnt want to make any mistakes like that.

Ive tried to find a link to buy Guzziology directly from Moto International (the author's shop), but I cant seem to find anything on the site. Amazon are selling it for a hundred bucks! :-/ (!)
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Dale on Feb 04, 2011, 07:55:05
The steering head nut was *very* tight. I had to a get a fair amount of heat, penetrating oil, and time into it getting it loose. In the process I destroyed the super thin aluminium dome with the Moto Guzzi logo on it.

Managed to get a NOS replacement. Cool thing is, now once everything is reassembled and tightened correctly, I can put on the little dome with the logo lined up straight! :-) Hey it might seem lame to some, but I think that's pretty cool.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/SteeringHeadnutCover.jpg)

( The blue is just the protective plastic covering. )
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: Slice on Feb 04, 2011, 09:26:29
The fine details... Cant go over looked.
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50II Detailed Cafe Build Diary
Post by: TonyH on Feb 06, 2011, 19:11:31
Right! Thanks. Wouldnt want to make any mistakes like that.

Ive tried to find a link to buy Guzziology directly from Moto International (the author's shop), but I cant seem to find anything on the site. Amazon are selling it for a hundred bucks! :-/ (!)

It's not listed on their website.  Call Greg Field at Moto International 800-949-MOTO or  206-297-3822 and he'll get a copy sent to you. Note they are closed Sundays and Mondays.
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50 II Detailed Cafe Build
Post by: Dale on Feb 15, 2011, 11:11:01
Thanks for all the great info Tony. I pm'd you in case you didn't see...

Ok, so the engine build is coming along pretty slowly. The Torque settings in the manual I downloaded might as well be in hieroglyphics.

Based on my skill level, Iím just not  the "divide something by something else to get the setting type of guy - I just want the setting." I'm touch and go as it is.

So I finally managed to get settings from a guy who works on Guzzi's who lives in the area, who also gave me some advice.

If anyone else is needing the settings for the following (ever), here it is in Metric English:

Main bearing torque settings = 4.4 to 4.8 kgm
Big ends = 3.2 to 3.5 kgm
Cyl heads = 4.2 to 4.4 kgm


(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Bottomend_05.jpg)



 
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50 II Detailed Cafe Build
Post by: dewjantim on Feb 17, 2011, 22:12:44
Keep on workin' Dale, it is starting to come right along. I like the Guzzi emblem...... the small details which people do not consciously see add a lot to the overall perception of the bike...... I am anxious for you to get the engine done and see the rest of your build.....
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50 II Detailed Cafe Build
Post by: Dale on Feb 21, 2011, 09:43:18
Keep on workin' Dale, it is starting to come right along. I like the Guzzi emblem...... the small details which people do not consciously see add a lot to the overall perception of the bike......

Yeah thanks, the bike is greater than the sum of its parts, and these little touches add to that philosophy!

I am anxious for you to get the engine done and see the rest of your build.....

Tell me about it!  :P

Well at least the motor is coming along, and I know for certain that its right. I'm hoping to have it ready by the weekend...

More progress (cellphone pic at night :-/ )

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Motor_02.jpg)
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50 II Detailed Cafe Build
Post by: Dale on Feb 21, 2011, 09:46:41
Once its all put together, Ive got a few places that still need to have a little petrol, scotch-brite and elbow grease to clean it up properly. Already did a once over before stripping, but the final touch will be to have these casings looking nice and clean...
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50 II Detailed Cafe Build
Post by: Dale on Feb 21, 2011, 11:54:13
BARRELS :-)

Getting them ready. The guys who did the linings battled with the one barrel, and it had to be redone 3 times before they got it right. The other one didn't give them any problems. The process of acid bathing etc has also given me the benefit of a cosmetic facelift.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Barrels_02.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Barrels_01.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Barrels_03.jpg)

New o-rings etc...

Slowly getting there. :-)
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50 II Detailed Cafe Build
Post by: dewjantim on Feb 21, 2011, 19:28:21
Very purty' Dale  8) 8) 8) . Funny, how you work and work on all the little things....... then, one day...... bang.... there it is  :o :o :o ...... looking as good in your garage as it did in your head  :) :) :) .
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50 II Detailed Cafe Build
Post by: Dale on Feb 26, 2011, 09:10:06
MOTOR COMPLETE!

Well, its finally done. :-)

The heads were skimmed and gas-flowed.
The internals were balanced.
The barrels were renicasil'd.
All new bushes, bearings, seals and gaskets.
Gearbox was completely rebuilt by Anton from AR Racing Developments out of two different boxes.
Starter motor reconditioned and new solenoid.

Next step is to do the final cleanup on the casings and get it looking good.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Engine_07.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Engine_03.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Engine_05.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Engine_06.jpg)
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50 II Cafe Build **(MOTOR COMPLETE!)**
Post by: Yesimivan on Feb 26, 2011, 11:38:46
That is a beautiful hunk of metal.
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50 II Cafe Build **(MOTOR COMPLETE!)**
Post by: Juggernaut on Feb 26, 2011, 12:04:11
That's a purdy one!
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50 II Cafe Build **(MOTOR COMPLETE!)**
Post by: Swapmeet Louie on Feb 26, 2011, 12:09:46
Very nice Dale.
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50 II Cafe Build **(MOTOR COMPLETE!)**
Post by: bikeboy on Feb 26, 2011, 18:21:28
That is a beautiful hunk of metal.

It certainly is. I'll bet your getting toey now  ;)


Looks terrific.


ian
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50 II Cafe Build **(MOTOR COMPLETE!)**
Post by: dewjantim on Feb 26, 2011, 18:25:50
Lookin' good Dale  ;) ;) ;) ......
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50 II Cafe Build **(MOTOR COMPLETE!)**
Post by: Dale on Feb 27, 2011, 05:57:29
Hell thanks guys. :-)

Its been a big milestone on this build for me.

Looking forward to some more creative work on the build in the next phase, which will be less technical, and more about the look of the bike.

Will be sending some parts like the lower frame cradle, foot controls, and battery plate (generally parts I know I can bolt on and not have to remove again, that wont affect the look and feel of the bike) - in for powder this week - and then I can start the mock-up...
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50 II Cafe Build **(MOTOR COMPLETE!)**
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Feb 27, 2011, 06:24:58
God those engines are an awesome design. You've done well!!!
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50 II Cafe Build **(MOTOR COMPLETE!)**
Post by: Dale on Feb 27, 2011, 06:35:02
God those engines are an awesome design. You've done well!!!

Thanks man.

They really are so nicely designed. If you look at the first pic - imagine the gearbox taken off - the actual motor is *so compact*, actually with so few parts. Relatively basic in design.
 
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50 II Cafe Build **(MOTOR COMPLETE!)**
Post by: Steve Zodiak on Feb 28, 2011, 18:28:30
I just found this thread - terrific stuff.  I bought a triple clamp set up for my V65 from feebay a while ago so that I could cut the handlebar brackets off and still have my original if It didn't work out or I didn't like it. When it arrived it was too small and ends up being from a 500. If anyone would like to swap  a 650 triple clamp for a 500 let me know. Really enjoying watcing the build progress and seeing the engine re-build as well.
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50 II Cafe Build **(MOTOR COMPLETE!)**
Post by: Dale on Mar 04, 2011, 15:58:53
Hi Steve, - didnt know the V65 had a different triple clamp to the V50 and V35? Try one of the Guzzi specific forums etc with regards a swap?
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50 II Cafe Build **(MOTOR COMPLETE!)**
Post by: Dale on Mar 04, 2011, 16:02:39
Well, I cleaned up the motor. It's looking pretty good. Still not 100% happy with it, but when I do the final teardown and build, I'll give it another once over...
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Motor_clean.jpg)
 
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50 II Cafe Build **(MOTOR COMPLETE!)**
Post by: Dale on Mar 04, 2011, 16:19:11
MOCK-UP BEGINS
 
Right, so I spent most of the last couple of days on the part of the project that I've been waiting to get to for a good couple of months now. Started with the frame. The brakes and wiring were still on, and needed to be taken off. Tried to get my head around the wiring and where I would be moving stuff where needed, before removing.
 
Dead Horse:
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/DeadHorse.jpg)
 
Once everthing was off, gave the frame a good high pressure blast to see where the corrosion and weak points were. Nothing unusual - battery area, brake cylinder area etc had some rust. Rest of frame pretty good.
 
Then set to work, bolting the essential stuff together for the mock-up...
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Mockup_frontthreequarter.jpg)
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Mockup_rearthreequarter.jpg)
 
Exhaust ends are not knocked into place yet, (above) as the mufflers are of an asymetrical design, and I'm still not sure which is left and which is right...
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Mockup_sidehi.jpg)
 
[Edit > added pic above ]

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Mockup_fronton.jpg)
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Mockup_rear.jpg)
 
 
It feels like I'm working on motorycle again, as opposed to a bunch of parts. A lot of ground work has been done, but there's a ton still go!
 
 
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50 II Cafe Build **(MOTOR COMPLETE!)**
Post by: Rossicle on Mar 04, 2011, 17:02:06
WOW! The amount of work and attention to detail you've put into this is amazing! Keep it up.. It's going to be a sweet clean machine!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: Erskine on Mar 04, 2011, 18:42:43
Stunning, it that unique Italian way.
Nice work mate.
:)
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: dewjantim on Mar 04, 2011, 20:45:36
Nice work Dale...... it is really lookin' good.......
Title: Re: MOTO GUZZI V50 II Cafe Build **(MOTOR COMPLETE!)**
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Mar 05, 2011, 06:13:07

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Mockup_rear.jpg)

My new computer background wallpaper!!!
Friggin awesome right there!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: Dale on Mar 06, 2011, 04:41:43
Thankyou gentlemen!
Appreciate the comments. :-)

My new computer background wallpaper!!!
Friggin awesome right there!

Ha! Awesome! :-)

I think that image from the back definitley dictates the profile of the rear, and I will be working with that shape.
 
I'm also kinda liking the Guzzi red. I've been leaning heavily towards doing the bodywork in black, in keeping with a more monochrome look, but the red is growing on me... Dunno. We'll see closer to the time.
 
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: treitz on Mar 07, 2011, 13:04:18
This thing is off the charts. Can't wait to see it finished.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: Plastic on Mar 07, 2011, 13:07:59
nothing but pure class man!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: dewjantim on Mar 07, 2011, 21:38:10
Dale, I like this bike more every time I look at it. Red is a great color for Italian machinery especially if you throw in a white and green stripe or two. Nice work  ;) ;) ;) .......
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: Maritime on Mar 08, 2011, 10:33:23
Red, keep it red, very nice.   This will be a beauty when finished for sure.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: Dale on Mar 08, 2011, 15:25:24
Thanks again guys! :-)

Yup, red is *very* Italian!

Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: Ringo on Mar 08, 2011, 15:44:54
Oh wow, I like this.  Well done so far, Dale.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: Yesimivan on Mar 08, 2011, 19:38:19
Dammit, am I the only proponent of the unique (and incredible) paint scheme shown in your sig?!
 
Ludicrous!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: .jordan on Mar 08, 2011, 21:38:39
very nice! what plans do you have for a seat?
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: Dale on Mar 14, 2011, 16:16:24
It always surprises me how well (and easily) some parts clean up. The metal filings are from something else - can't remember what! :-)
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/exhaust_05.jpg)
 
 
Stainless Steel fasteners.
 
This is a little trick my dad taught me. Nothing new to most of you guys, I'm sure, but its cool anyways I think. With this build, I've been replacing all the nuts and bolts with stainless. - Cap screws where I can. The markings on the bolts donít look great, and in order to make them look authentic, the markings are removed and then the bolt is polished up. This is easily achieved by placing your bolt in a drill press and then placing a file on the bolt head face. Thereafter a piece of medium, and then fine sandpaper - and then finally polish in a handful of cloth. It also makes the bolts match up visually with the bolts you can't replace.
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Stainless_bolts.jpg)
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Stainless_bolts_02.jpg)
 
 
@.jordan> The seat will be based mostly on my initial rendered mockup on the first page of this build thread. I plan to make it from a 5mm aluminium base plate with a compartment under the seat which will house the electrical components that were originally housed behind the side covers etc. The cowl will follow the profile of the rear portion of the tank, as per the rear shot of the bike posted earlier. I plan to follow the tank profile in the actual seat as well. The cowl will be made from fiberglass and then covered in black leather / vinyl along with the rest of the seat (whichever material looks more appropriate). The cowl will hold both the rear light, indicators and license plate bracket.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: Dale on Mar 14, 2011, 16:23:07
Right. So here's some photoshop mockups of the bike in black. I think I'm going with a simple paint scheme with no fancy stuff.
 
Played with the idea of the two-tone black and gray tank, but although it looks pretty interesting on the three-quarter rear angle in the original mockups, it doesn't really translate that well on the actual tank.
 
The red seems well in place, and holds true to the Italian flair, but the black gives the bike a monochrome look that I really like, and well, who doesn't like a black bike?
 
I'm still not 100% percent sure though, but I think it's come down to these two options...
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/DaleBest_V50_sidefront_black.jpg)
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/DaleBest_V50_top_black.jpg)
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/DaleBest_V50_topside_black.jpg)
 
 
And in the right corner...
 
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/DaleBest_V50_sidefront_red.jpg)
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/DaleBest_V50_top_red.jpg)
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/DaleBest_V50_topside_red.jpg)
 
 
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: Maritime on Mar 14, 2011, 16:27:22
For me the Italian bike needs to be red.  Just does it for me, whenever I drool over a Guzzi or a Duc, it always seems to be a red one.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: Bozz on Mar 14, 2011, 16:33:42
+1 on the red, and I vote to extend it onto the headlight bucket as well.

But it's YOUR bike 1st.

Thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: Rossicle on Mar 14, 2011, 16:39:32
Maybe you could do a black and red color scheme? Just a thought. I like 'em both!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: thenewblack on Mar 14, 2011, 16:42:36
They both look great but idk man, i'm REALLY diggin that black!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Mar 14, 2011, 21:20:15
OK... that does it... I am officially looking for a Guzzi project!!!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: Dale on Mar 15, 2011, 02:21:28
OK... that does it... I am officially looking for a Guzzi project!!!

Awesome! We could do with the company... Not too many Guzzi's here...

Thanks to the rest of you guys so far for the color input... :-)

Dale
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: johnnynogood on Mar 15, 2011, 11:48:31
if i can ever finish my CB550F, a Guzzi will be next. After reading your build and an article in some british bike mag, I am hooked.




As far as colour goes. Red seems right, nothing risky or different about it. Looks clean, and proper. That being said, you do not see many black guzzis and it would set you apart from some other nice projects. To counter myself, again, red shows off the tank lines better.......


I think you should put an R on one side of a coin and a B on the other. Flip the coin, and before you look, ask yourself what you are hoping for. lol.




either way, you win!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: Swapmeet Louie on Mar 15, 2011, 13:08:50
OK... that does it... I am officially looking for a Guzzi project!!!

Ditto!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: dewjantim on Mar 15, 2011, 15:44:43
Dale, I really like the red and the black looks nice also. You could take a hint from Harley's VR1000 and paint half red and half black with a gold or silver stripe down the middle with black pinstripes on the red side and red pinstripes on the black side...... of course it is your decision. Whatever you decide it is going to be a killer bike.....
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: two wheels of hell on Mar 16, 2011, 01:57:14
The red is pretty. But black is tough. Guzzi owners are tough. Don't get sucked into the Italian flair thing.  My vote is for black and only black. Besides it will attract the right kind of girl. Very cool project. I have looked for one myself though the years.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: Dale on Mar 16, 2011, 06:34:05
Don't get sucked into the Italian flair thing.
My vote is for black and only black.
 
Besides it will attract the right kind of girl.

You Sir, are the voice of reason!
Made my day, I guess I'm hanging in the wrong circles, coz none of the girls I know give a shit about bikes. Need to change that maybe! :-)) WISDOM!!!  :D
 
 
So to recap the imput so far (and I do value the input - so thanks a hellavalot for taking the time! )
 
Maritime RED (1)
Bozz  RED (2)
Rossicle RED AND BLACK (1)
13thenewblack13 BLACK (1)
johnnynogood RED (3) / BLACK (2)
dewjantim RED  (4) / RED AND BLACK (2)
two wheels of hell BLACK (3)
Yesimivan  BLACK AND GREY (1)
My buddy Rhett BLACK AND GREY (2)
My buddy Rudi BLACK (4)

Total so far:
RED 4
BLACK 4
RED AND BLACK 2
RED AND GREY 2
 
 
Dale
 
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: Plastic on Mar 16, 2011, 08:48:16
Red all the way, its like the red ferrari vs the black one type deal.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: dewjantim on Mar 16, 2011, 09:52:00
I would say that green attracts the most women  :P :P :P ......... green as in greenbacks  :o :o :o ......
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: Dale on Mar 16, 2011, 11:55:00
Red all the way, its like the red ferrari vs the black one type deal.

Ha Ha, Youre not being biased are you? I mean your handle isnt BlackPlastic right?  :P  Thanks for the opinion man. I hear all the +red+ comments - it's just, well, the V50 really isnt the most collectible or desirable Guzzi out there, so that does give a certain amount of license to not be too purist about it...
 
 
I would say that green attracts the most women  :P :P :P ......... green as in greenbacks  :o :o :o ......

PEARLS OF WISDOM! Thems is a flowin'  ;)
Yup, I have to say that sounds about right.
Motorcycles as a hobby in general is keeping me broke though - so guess I'm screwed (or not)...  ???
 
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: 50gary on Mar 16, 2011, 12:25:37
I guess I'm a natural born contrary, I love your project and the bike is great.  I think however it's almost silly to ask for opinions about the color.  It's your bike, your money, your sweat equity and to throw up the finishing touch to the crew is puzzling?
  I make my own choices and so should you, my only advise is not about the actual color but only to be bold, it's your bike. * I say this in a brotherly advice sort of way not a bossy pri@ky sort of way.
   Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: Dale on Mar 16, 2011, 13:23:11
Hey 50gary, I definitely take your comment in the brotherly fashion as opposed to the pri@cky sort of way! :-)
 
I certainly would not do my bike in red if I really wanted it black and vice versa just because that was the general consensus! I was (and still am to a degree) genuinly on the fence on the issue, and thought it would be great to see the motivation and reasoning from other people that I may not have come up with myself for the two colour choices I had narrowed things down to... Its merely a point of discussion, nothing more. :-)
 
But thanks for the concern, and the advice. I hear you!
 
Dale
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: dewjantim on Mar 16, 2011, 15:17:00

Ha Ha, Youre not being biased are you? I mean your handle isnt BlackPlastic right?  :P  Thanks for the opinion man. I hear all the +red+ comments - it's just, well, the V50 really isnt the most collectible or desirable Guzzi out there, so that does give a certain amount of license to not be too purist about it...
 
 
PEARLS OF WISDOM! Thems is a flowin'  ;)
Yup, I have to say that sounds about right.
Motorcycles as a hobby in general is keeping me broke though - so guess I'm screwed (or not)...  ???  ......................................................                                                                                 Well, I am on the " not " side right now also......... and will probably remain that way once my wifey finds out about the Cobra Mustang and the grand worth of carbon I bought for it  :-X :-X :-X ........hehehehehe.... I am always in trouble.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Mar 16, 2011, 22:21:42
Green, White and Red..
Bold horizontal stripes..
Red on bottom to tie into the red fender.
 
 
(http://travelsignposts.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/flag-italy_588.jpg)
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(MOCK-UP BEGINS!)**
Post by: Dale on Mar 23, 2011, 17:06:29
Hoosier Daddy - Tricolore! Will definitely have those kind of details in there somewhere for sure.
 
Right. Ive had fairly limited internet access of late, and well I've also been kinda busy, as you can see:
 
 
 
SEAT AND TAILPIECE  Part 01
(DESIGN)
 

For this part of the process, my objective was to create a 1:1 mockup of the tailpiece and seat taking into account the shape and functionality of the unit. From there I will be making up the final unit from fibreglass, wood and aluminium. Parts of the mockup will be used to create the unique shape from using fibreglass, but other areas, like the seat base and electrical equipment housing, a new part will be made up from a wooden frame and aluminium plating, using the model as a 3D object to take dimensions off.
 
The process Ive used works for me, and Ive always done it this way, Its probably not the most practical, but I like it because it allows me a lot of control, and I can build a symmetrical shape by working out and making one side, and then using that as a template for the other side.
 
It also allows me to break down a 3D object into 2D shapes which are easier to understand by making multiple profiles. The use of card, also allows me to quickly make tweaks and changes, and not be precious about anything because of the rapid way you can make up 2D shapes. This way, I tend to not compromise because of invested time.

----
 
01. Tailight
So to start out, I asked my dad if he had any smallish round rear lights in his stash of parts. The last few years of his restoring life was made up mainly of British cars. He produced these two Lucas lights out of a box of NOS and restored lights! The unit I ended up using is from a 50's MG Magnette. Originally I like the finned light because of the sharper profile, but it's diameter is 10mm larger than the other unit, meaning that it would be closer to the wheel, and my design is on the limits with regards clearances.
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Seat_design_Taillights.jpg)
 
 
02. Profile and tailpiece shape
I wanted the seat to follow visually from the tank. The tank design has definitive creases mixed with smooth curves. I took some profiles off the tank, (which I used throughout the design phase of the seat).
 
My challenge was working within the following parameters:
 
a. I had to get the tank profile into a round (light) profile within a fairly short distance. (I had a specific length I wanted to achieve as per the original concept art which gives the bike a definitive look).

b. I had to get the width of the tailpiece flush with the frame width, and then taper it into the round profile in a fairly short distance.
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Seat_design_Profile.jpg)
 
 
 
03. Electrical components
The electrical parts hidden behind the side covers all need to be moved out of sight.
Its a squeeze for the five parts, and I'm leaving plenty of ventilation.
I've managed to steal some space by using the width of the frame tube to help hide things.
I wanted there to be a specific height to the seat base, which lined up with one of the tank creases, as well as giving a more streamlined look.
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Seat_design_ElectricalComponents.jpg)
 
 
 
04. Seat and Tail Design
Took me quite a while to get the profile right. Originally it was as per the concept art, but I ended up building it up 12mm higher for more support with regards acceleration etc. It also feels more balanced with the tank height.
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Seat_design_01.jpg)
 
 
More curves! At this point, I was starting to get pretty happy with the shape.
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Seat_design_02.jpg)
 
 
Fine tuning the shape.
Used some cellulose spot putty to fill in and sand.
Making sure everything is symmetrical and true.
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Seat_design_03.jpg)
 
 
 
05. Cutting the Frame
The frame will be losing some brackets in the side panel area. I won't be taking anything off until I'm absolutely certain. I knew this was necessary, so just got in there and cut 'em off.
You always second guess at this point. But I made this decision before I bought the bike. I don't want a stocker. This little V50 is shedding some steel.
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Seat_design_framecut.jpg)
 
 
 
06. Padded area
Now I wanted the padded seat area to be completely flush and seamless with the whole tailpiece, so I made it up as a singular piece. I then sliced the "padded" area off.
Just a note at this point - all the angles on the seat follow the frame angle precisely.
The original bike had a 50mm clearance on the rear fender, and I've made sure to keep that same clearance.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Seat_design_04.jpg)
 
 
The final "hard" section shape. I gave it a spray to unify the colour so that I could clearly see the shape on the bike. Black recedes as a colour, and I intend for this entire unit to be covered in a black material, so it just helps visualize the end product more accurately.
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Seat_design_05.jpg)

 
 
And this is what it looks like so far:
 
(So imagine that entire tailpiece and seat covered in a black leather with double stitching along the hard creases etc).
 
 
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/DaleBest_seat_01.jpg)
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/DaleBest_seat_02.jpg)
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/DaleBest_seat_03.jpg)
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/DaleBest_seat_04.jpg)
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/DaleBest_seat_05.jpg)

Dale
 
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(SEAT AND TAILPIECE DESIGN!)**
Post by: crush1776 on Mar 23, 2011, 17:35:25
That looks amazing, bravo! The tail section flows perfectly with the tank!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(SEAT AND TAILPIECE DESIGN!)**
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Mar 23, 2011, 17:44:23
AWESOME!
Love your attention to detail, flows so nice with the angles on the tank.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(SEAT AND TAILPIECE DESIGN!)**
Post by: jkluesner on Mar 23, 2011, 17:56:51
Love the look of the rounding to the tail-light. Impressive!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(SEAT AND TAILPIECE DESIGN!)**
Post by: Maritime on Mar 23, 2011, 18:07:25
Perfect flow from tank to seat, you nailed it.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(SEAT AND TAILPIECE DESIGN!)**
Post by: Erskine on Mar 23, 2011, 18:15:13
Perfect flow from tank to seat, you nailed it.

+1
:)
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(SEAT AND TAILPIECE DESIGN!)**
Post by: JohnGoFast on Mar 23, 2011, 18:16:31
Love it, that whole seat would look great wrapped. Can't wait to see that complete.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(SEAT AND TAILPIECE DESIGN!)**
Post by: Plastic on Mar 23, 2011, 18:16:31
love it...but...there's always a but isnt there?...about that tail light.  It looks like an afterthought, kinda like rudolphs big red nose sticking out like a sore thumb... but...there's that but again!  Thats my opinion, either way its still an amazing build, and I appreciate the work thats gone into it
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(SEAT AND TAILPIECE DESIGN!)**
Post by: Dale on Mar 23, 2011, 18:33:30
Definitely not an afterthought - it was the *starting point*! Read the first point I make with regards getting the tank profile into a round profile - And also on page 1 of this build thread - the concept has been up there since day 1. It's got a definitive look and very much intentional. Im super happy with the look and knowing my motorcycle is unique is what matters in this regard.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(SEAT AND TAILPIECE DESIGN!)**
Post by: crush1776 on Mar 23, 2011, 20:59:52
love it...but...there's always a but isnt there?...about that tail light.  It looks like an afterthought, kinda like rudolphs big red nose sticking out like a sore thumb... but...there's that but again!  Thats my opinion, either way its still an amazing build, and I appreciate the work thats gone into it

I agree to disagree, I think it flows very well, especially witht he tail section getting a coat of leather on it, it will blend nicely.

BUT yes, you could name the bike "Rudy" and people will get it!  ;D
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(SEAT AND TAILPIECE DESIGN!)**
Post by: 50gary on Mar 23, 2011, 22:29:50
Dale, outstanding design and build good eye.  I would like to see a pure profile shot.  Jut a suggestion here, I used "Alcantara" in "New" Black on my cafe seat.  It's the interior fabric of most current Ferrari and Lamborghini's and luxury Yachts .  Not cheap but very nice.  There's only one importer (from Italy of course) and he's in Florida.  There is an ebay source as well from England he only offer three colors black, Grey, Tan.  It's worth checking out for a distinctive look.  I used light sand colored thread in French stitching (double row)  I also put "thigh cuts" on each side of the seat flat.  I would Have used the second taillight with the fins, so stylish but yet subtle.  I'll buy it if you want to sell it?  My current Cafe project bike is a CX500 which Honda brought out to directly compete with your bike so that makes it great fun watching the build.
   Cheers, 50gary
 
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(SEAT AND TAILPIECE DESIGN!)**
Post by: Dale on Mar 24, 2011, 05:43:10
Hey guys, thanks for all the feedback and comments! Greatly appreciated. All the hours you spend in the garage in isolation is rewarding in itself, but its also cool having people that know what youre doing and 'get it' see the work.
 
50gary, I love the CX500. It has a unique feel of its own. I actually came across one the other day for sale, and was pretty tempted, but it had no papers! The Alcantara sounds great - Ill look it up. Thanks for the pointer! :-) Your seat sounds very nice!
 
With regards the second tailight with the fins - it was actually the 'first' tailight - but as I mentioned earlier it has a 100mm diameter and is just too big for this bike. I do have an amber and two clear lenses in the same set which are actually 80mm in diamterer. The shape definitley does flow better. I seem to recall a red gel paint somewhere along the line that you can paint lenses with - perhaps its worth investigating - another option would be to put a red LED light into the white lens? Could be cool, dunno. I only have one of the larger red lenses, and would be happy to give you one if I had a double, but Im sure I will be using it on another build. For your reference, its a LUCAS L551. Not sure what its off - but its definitley early Cold War era - rockets and all! If you dont manage to find one, PM me.
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/V50-001_lights.jpg)
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/V50-smallerlight_02.jpg)
 
 
 
 
And here's the profile shot you asked for.
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/V50-sideprofile.jpg)
 
And a quick photoshop of the headlight lowered. Its curently just got a standard Tomaselli bracket on - I will be making up a specific one to get the light exatly where I want it. Probably make the bracket black as well.
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/V50-sideprofile_headlightlower.jpg)
 
Some more shots.
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/DaleBest_seat_07.jpg)
 
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/DaleBest_seat_06.jpg)
 
 
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(SEAT AND TAILPIECE DESIGN!)**
Post by: Ringo on Mar 24, 2011, 05:59:43
That looks great, Dale.  Very well thought out and executed.  Nice work.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(SEAT AND TAILPIECE DESIGN!)**
Post by: miob on Mar 24, 2011, 06:17:33
Wow. Just wow. So simple, but stunning. Great job mate!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(SEAT AND TAILPIECE DESIGN!)**
Post by: bikeboy on Mar 24, 2011, 06:32:07
excellent work Dale. I kinda like the clear lens on that tailight  ::)  Any chance you could run a red bulb? Is that legal where you are?


Love the shape of that tail too.


ian
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(SEAT AND TAILPIECE DESIGN!)**
Post by: 50gary on Mar 24, 2011, 10:56:29
Thanks for the profile shot.  If something looks good in profile it'll look good from any angle IMO.  I love those wheels, I would cross-drill the rotors but that may look too nu skool?  It'll be interesting to check the curb weight when finished. 
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(SEAT AND TAILPIECE DESIGN!)**
Post by: two-smoker on Mar 24, 2011, 12:23:56
Absolutely gorgeous!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(SEAT AND TAILPIECE DESIGN!)**
Post by: Swapmeet Louie on Mar 24, 2011, 12:40:17
Great work Dale. Aesthetically and proportionately perfect...

Lou
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(SEAT AND TAILPIECE DESIGN!)**
Post by: Rossicle on Mar 25, 2011, 00:37:50
I love the attention to the lines on that seat!

Keep it up, Dale.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Build **(SEAT AND TAILPIECE DESIGN!)**
Post by: Dale on Mar 25, 2011, 12:57:41
Thanks again guys.

I'm pretty happy with things, but always good to get confirmation!

Ian, as far as I know I could run a clear lens on the rear.

50Gary, I agree, cross drilling would take away from the 70's era thing.

I've got this cool little decal with the Moto Guzzi Eagle, and the words "Una Storia Italia 1921". Moto Guzzi was founded in 1921 and "Una Storia Italia" translates roughly to "The Italian Story" or more accurately in context "Italian History".

It won't last forever on there, I'm sure, but I live in a fairly moderate climate, and this bike won't be used every day I think, so it should be ok. Nice little detail. The decal appeared on 750 Moto Guzzi Breva's.

Oh, and well done on the BOTM nomination Lou! :-)
 

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/UnoStoriaItalia1921.jpg)
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe **(SEAT & TAILPIECE DESIGN)**
Post by: Dale on Mar 26, 2011, 14:42:08
SOME COLOR SCHEMES...
 
I was showing my buddy Rhett the side profile shot that 50Gary had asked for, and he said, "Hey why don't you put an old scuffed up pressed steel number plate on the side?".
 
At first I thought it was a bit of a dumb idea..., but didn't feel like working on the bike today, but was still into doing something related to the project.
 
So I got a bit carried away with Photoshop, one thing led to the next, and then started playing around with some color schemes as well. Pity the carbs and brake calipers aren't fitted. The bike is a'79, hence the number.
 
I'm glad I did, because I think I'm seeing this bike in a different light. Maybe it's a little tongue-in-cheek and not taking itself so seriously - having a bit of fun with it...
 
Took some of the earlier suggestions from some of you guys as well! :-)  Whatcha think?
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/MotoGuzzi-V50-1976.jpg)
 
Heres a side on profile of the bike in original form (not mine, this is a MKI, but it looks identical - didnt take a side on of the bike when I got it.)
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/DaleBestV50_WIP_Red.jpg)
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/DaleBestV50_WIP_Red_White.jpg)
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/DaleBestV50_WIP_Red_White_Grn.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/DaleBestV50_WIP_White.jpg)
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/DaleBestV50_WIP_Black_Grey.jpg)
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/DaleBestV50_WIP_Black_White.jpg)
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/DaleBestV50_WIP_Black.jpg)
 
Dale
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe **(COLOR SCHEME MOCKUPS)**
Post by: VonYinzer on Mar 26, 2011, 14:56:23
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/DaleBestV50_WIP_Red_White.jpg)
 

Thats the winner in my book. Looks like a real racebike. Do the seat in green, and have it upholstered in red and white leather or vinyl. Very vintage European looking...
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe **(COLOR SCHEME MOCKUPS)**
Post by: VonYinzer on Mar 26, 2011, 14:57:15
Beautiful bike so far, by the way.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe **(COLOR SCHEME MOCKUPS)**
Post by: Rossicle on Mar 26, 2011, 17:56:39
Although I like the red one with the white and green..

I really like the black with white.. It's simple and clean. Maybe you could reverse the colors so that the white part would be black and blend in with the seat really well.. Just a thought.

(http://[IMG]http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m492/TheRossicle/DaleBestV50_WIP_Black_White.jpg)[/img]

Makes me wish I had Photoshop
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe **(COLOR SCHEME MOCKUPS)**
Post by: Dale on Mar 26, 2011, 18:11:22
Thanks Von!

Interesting idea, but pretty set on making up the entire seat in black leather. That way my options are always open if I decide to change things later on...

Rossicle that's a cool idea - I'll give it a try! :-) easy enough to do.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe **(COLOR SCHEME MOCKUPS)**
Post by: johnu on Mar 26, 2011, 20:31:36
Red/white/green with #on tail or black/white with #on tail.  Absolutely sweet looking bike.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe **(COLOR SCHEME MOCKUPS)**
Post by: motofiaccone on Mar 26, 2011, 20:35:18
This is a really cool build. I love everything about it. I'd really like to build a Guzzi one day. One thing that always kinda concerned me about them is their length. Are they as long as they look or do they just appear long?

One thing I would caution you on is the rear tire to seat bottom distance. It looks really tight--like the wheel could smack the seat at full compression. I chased my tail with my RD400 because the seat would hit the taillight. In the end, I bought longer dampers. If you love the seat--and what's not to love about it?--you could alway use longer dampers (though yours look new).

Either way, I just wanted to chime in and let you know I really like following your build.

--Cheers, Chris
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe **(COLOR SCHEME MOCKUPS)**
Post by: Swapmeet Louie on Mar 28, 2011, 04:22:45
Get some sleep mister! haha....

Bike looks great!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe **(COLOR SCHEME MOCKUPS)**
Post by: Dale on Mar 28, 2011, 04:28:47
Get some sleep mister! haha....

Bike looks great!

Ha ha! Speak for yourself! :-)
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe **(COLOR SCHEME MOCKUPS)**
Post by: Dale on Mar 28, 2011, 08:54:24
Red/white/green with #on tail or black/white with #on tail.  Absolutely sweet looking bike.

Thanks for the opinion johnu, just cool playing with different configurations. Ive also been interested to see what people out there prefered. A kind of research in a way?
 
 
This is a really cool build. I love everything about it. I'd really like to build a Guzzi one day. One thing that always kinda concerned me about them is their length. Are they as long as they look or do they just appear long?

Well, Im new when it comes to Moto Guzzi, as this is my first one... My bike has a smaller frame than a Le Mans for example, 1400mm axel to axel. (which seems pretty close to a general standard for sports bikes to me?). I'm not sure what larger Guzzi's measure up to? They also sit fairly low, and that Im sure contributes to them looking longer? Dunno - If anybody has info on this, let us know!
 
One thing I would caution you on is the rear tire to seat bottom distance. It looks really tight--like the wheel could smack the seat at full compression. I chased my tail with my RD400 because the seat would hit the taillight. In the end, I bought longer dampers. If you love the seat--and what's not to love about it?--you could alway use longer dampers (though yours look new).
Either way, I just wanted to chime in and let you know I really like following your build.
--Cheers, Chris

Ya know, I fitted the original rear fender and took a measurement of the tyre clearance before I started (50mm). But then I looked at the original pic I posted earlier of a standard V50, and realised that I must have fited the fender incorectly! Dumbass. Its more like 80mm. So, you're right, chances of it bottoming out are high. Ive screwed up a bit. Im going to have to lift the tail. Im thinking a further 20mm. The new shocks Ive got on there are fully adjustbale. Theyre currently set around the mid settings. Its pretty plush atm, so I think I can stiffen them up a bit without losing much comfort. This will help things a bit as well. Good call. Thanks! :-/
 
 
 
Very nice build, been following this one from the beginning. I have always like the smaller Guzzi's.

All the colour schemes look good but the stand out for me is the plain red, it just gives the bike a presence and allows that beautiful tank shape to show through.

Thankyou man. Very much appreciated. I think thats where Im at as well. You stated it plainly - it shows off the tank shape, and it feels like the right colour for the bike in general.
 
BTW, did you sell Minimus?
 
Thanks again guys. I appreciate the interest and time you guys have given this thread. Its helping me maximise on the best possble outcome for this project. Thats why I signed up here. The inspiration from the other builds, and I can only follow so many, keep one motivated and feel like part of something bigger than yourself.  Just cool being here.
 
Take care.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe **(COLOR SCHEME MOCKUPS)**
Post by: Maritime on Mar 28, 2011, 09:09:45
Thats the winner in my book. Looks like a real racebike. Do the seat in green, and have it upholstered in red and white leather or vinyl. Very vintage European looking...
The pic didn;t qoute along with the text but it is the second one with the red, white and green.

This one gets my vote too.  Love this build Dale.

Maritime.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe **(COLOR SCHEME MOCKUPS)**
Post by: JohnGoFast on Mar 28, 2011, 09:53:21
Another for the Red, White, Green. Lookin' good by the way!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe **(COLOR SCHEME MOCKUPS)**
Post by: JustinLonghorn on Mar 28, 2011, 09:58:08
Yep, Red/White/Green.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe **(COLOR SCHEME MOCKUPS)**
Post by: stik70 on Mar 28, 2011, 10:02:35
A great motorcycle Dale!! Love it!
Kev
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe **(COLOR SCHEME MOCKUPS)**
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Mar 28, 2011, 13:14:13
Thats the winner in my book. Looks like a real racebike. Do the seat in green, and have it upholstered in red and white leather or vinyl. Very vintage European looking...

Oh hell yea!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe **(COLOR SCHEME MOCKUPS)**
Post by: Slice on Mar 30, 2011, 10:40:21
Dale you beast of a man!

Immmmm baaccckk.... I like the black and grey colour shceme.. looks so sick!
I can see your hands have been busy working away! Man, I love this bike... DALE FOR PRESIDENT! Or BOTM!

-Slice
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe **(COLOR SCHEME MOCKUPS)**
Post by: djelliott on Mar 30, 2011, 11:36:11
Dale, the amount of planing and skill you put into your work is truly inspiring. The bike is gorgeous.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe **(COLOR SCHEME MOCKUPS)**
Post by: dewjantim on Mar 30, 2011, 14:14:56
Man, Dale....... you are sure coming along. Think I like the tricolor paint best and really like the seat covered with leather all the way. Sure is lookin' goooooooooodddddddd.......
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe **(COLOR SCHEME MOCKUPS)**
Post by: 50gary on Mar 30, 2011, 23:05:00
Dale, measure your rear shock travel, then cut a cardboard square the same amount of travel.  Now simply place it around the tire circumference to check for an interference fit, a specific oppositional regional continuum occupation.  You may also find a "kinetic component space conflict" 
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe **(COLOR SCHEME MOCKUPS)**
Post by: Dale on Apr 01, 2011, 10:23:18
Thanks guys. Wow. (!)
Thankyou *all* for the compliments and general positivity all round. Much appreciated. Really!
 

Hey Glenn, sounds like the perfect new home for the bike! All things considered - thats great. Good luck with the new build!
Well, yup, I guess that says it all! With regards colour, I've pretty much settled on the plain red. Great fun plaing with those schemes!
 
 
To all you pro tricolour 'more is more' fiends, :-) I did a quick mockup of VonYinzer's idea taking the colour through into the seat. Came out pretty cool actually. Its up on page 15 with the rest of them. Please feel free to use any of these concept schemes for your own project if you like them. 
 

50gary, your clearance idea using a piece of carboard sparked a light bulb moment for me.
When looking at the clearance around the swingarm area, I noticed it was pretty tight, around 20mm. At that point I realised that the clearance in fact works on more of an arc as opposed to a fixed amount going around the wheel, as the shocks travel in one direction only.
 
So the more perpendicular you go to the shock, the less clearance is required. Thats why theres only a 20mm gap between the tire and the swingarm. The point at which you need the most clearance is directly above and below the line of shock travel.
 
This meant that the area in question - the tail, which is not directly above the shock would require slightly less clearance than actual suspension travel. In reality, its doesnt give me much, but hey, it was fun checking all this out. The shock in its factory setting has the stopper placed at 50mm. It can be moved another 20mm.
Ive also raised the tail anyway to be more in line with original spec just in case.
The progressive springs on the new units don't compress anywhere near the stopper currently when bouncing the bike while sitting on it. Of course spring and damper compression will be much higher in different conditions in the real world, but I think its good. Only time will tell though! :-) Oh, and no kinetic component space conflicts! :-P
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/clearance.jpg)
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/clearance_arc.jpg)
 

>>>  Busy building the final seat, will post once its done.
 
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe **(COLOR SCHEME MOCKUPS)**
Post by: 50gary on Apr 01, 2011, 14:30:06
The more vertical the rear shock angle is the quicker the suspension responce will be.  Further, the spring rate (wheel rate) will also be higher for the same spring.  This is also true the closer the lower shock mount is to the rear axle the higher the rate for the same spring.  The relationship of the S/A to the tire will not change with motion it is fixed.  The swingarm simply scribes an arc, the radius being from the S/A pivot bolt center to the rear axle center.  Oh, and thanks for recognizing my joke at the end of my post. 
    Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe **(COLOR SCHEME MOCKUPS)**
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Apr 02, 2011, 07:28:49
Quote
the radius being from the S/A pivot bolt center to the rear axle center.
Yep, the travel is not parallel with the shock as drawn. Instead the axle travels along an arch that pivots on the swingarm bolt...
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe **(COLOR SCHEME MOCKUPS)**
Post by: dewjantim on Apr 21, 2011, 11:30:39
How is the build going Dale......
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Apr 21, 2011, 11:41:00
Uggh. Yeah. Big deadline at work for end of April, so haven't been able to do much else... Hoping to get back on it next month... :-)
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: dewjantim on Apr 24, 2011, 20:52:08
I am looking at a Guzzi V65 Lario which has a toasted top end on one side..... looks like a pretty easy job if I can find the parts although I understand the four valvers are finicky and destruction prone. What do ya' think....... :-\ :-\ :-\ .
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Apr 27, 2011, 10:35:24
dewjantim, the best place to get *reliable* info on this would be here:
http://www.wildguzzi.com/forum/ (http://wildguzzi.com/forum/)

(the small block guys are there in full force and very friendly 'ta boot).
 


Parts wise, these guys are really good. They specialise mainly in V7's, but cater for most models, and are super efficient.

http://www.mgcycle.com/ (http://www.mgcycle.com/)

Hope that helps!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: hedrives on Apr 27, 2011, 10:40:33
Dale, just came and read this from your link on the BMW 2002 page.
Just an awesome build.

We share a love of fabricating parts.

Keep up the great work.

Cheers,
brad in Hugetown
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: dewjantim on Apr 27, 2011, 11:35:31
Thanks Dale, I will check it out...... Honda is almost done, just have to find a short and add gas.... I hope.
dewjantim, the best place to get *reliable* info on this would be here:
http://www.wildguzzi.com/forum/ (http://wildguzzi.com/forum/)

(the small block guys are there in full force and very friendly 'ta boot).
 


Parts wise, these guys are really good. They specialise mainly in V7's, but cater for most models, and are super efficient.

http://www.mgcycle.com/ (http://www.mgcycle.com/)

Hope that helps!

Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: DSRDAVE on Apr 27, 2011, 11:37:55
Dale, nice looking bike and a very nice job on everything you've done.  I just started my own 850T cafe project.  I plan on many of the same things you've done but with the seat/lemans fairing/fenders in carbon fiber.  Ballistic battery (a division of Millenium tech) has lithiom ferite batteries at a fair price and a six cell that will handle the MG's draw.  Keep up the good work, Dave.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: hedrives on Apr 27, 2011, 11:48:34
Dale, here are the batteries I went with... Shorai Li-Ion
http://www.shoraipower.com/default.aspx (http://www.shoraipower.com/default.aspx)

cheers,
brad in Hugetown
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Apr 28, 2011, 12:20:40
Thanks hedrives! So you've had no problems with the Shorai Li-Ion product? Thanks again.

dewjantim, Ive got more links for specific parts if it comes to that. I'll also ask a guy I know who knows a LOT about Guzzis and get his opinion.

Dave, thats very cool. Hope to see your build thread up, so I'm not completely on my own here atm! :-))) I'll check out the Millenium Tech batteries out as well. Thanks for the pointers guys!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: hedrives on Apr 28, 2011, 12:40:39
Thanks hedrives! So you've had no problems with the Shorai Li-Ion product? Thanks again.

dewjantim, Ive got more links for specific parts if it comes to that. I'll also ask a guy I know who knows a LOT about Guzzis and get his opinion.

Dave, thats very cool. Hope to see your build thread up, so I'm not completely on my own here atm! :-))) I'll check out the Millenium Tech batteries out as well. Thanks for the pointers guys!


Dale,

Full honest reporting.
My battery failed while sitting on the shelf.
One start-up, then disconnected and it failed.
Shorai USA was quick to send me a paid RMA and replacement unit.

The guys at Shorai USA said they were seeing failures at 1 per 200 units.
The latest shipment has a revision of some kind to address the issue.

I have full faith in the unit even though I saw a failure.

cheers,
brad in Hugetown
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: dewjantim on Apr 28, 2011, 21:00:30
Dale...... I didn't win the Guzzi...... got outsniped at the last five seconds......darn !!! :'( :'( :'( . Think I will just start looking for a V-50 Monza.......
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Apr 29, 2011, 12:36:36
So you're looking for a small block? That's pretty cool! Why not a LeMans or something like that? Jus askin'.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: dewjantim on Apr 29, 2011, 22:54:16
I have always liked the way the v50 looks......
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: arsprod on Aug 21, 2011, 13:53:15
Dale, I just found your build (and this site) looking for Guzzi parts. Wow is all I can say! I have an 82 v50 III and thought my was unusual! I'm not a builder though. I'm interested in what you did with the pegs - doesn't look like you used or made rearsets but does look like they're farther back than normal. Reply would be most appreciated... thanks!

Aaron
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: gentlemanjim on Sep 09, 2011, 13:29:10
I admire your workmanship and thoroughness.  Lovely bike build.  I like it so much I have your signature photo as my desktop wallpaper.
 
Here's a pic of V50 III I built last year.  Shouldn't have sold it always on the look out for another.
 
(http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k104/gentlemanjim737/Moto-Guzzi_V-50.jpg)
 
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Sep 13, 2011, 10:01:49
Hi Aaron - bit of a late reply - haven't been around here over last few months...

"Life, work and other builds getting in the way of this project."

Please post up a pic of your bike - would be great to see! As for the position of the pegs - they're in the stock position. I did some minor mods to both the frame and pegs to get them to work nicely, but nothing more than that. I'm hoping they will be comfortable location wise - the factory often knows better than we do! ;-)

Hey gentlemanjim, nice pic, nice bike too. Where is that? Looks good in white. How did you find those cans compared to the originals? Thanks for the vote of confidence as well! :-)

Cleaned up my garage this weekend - it was at the tail end of another build, and got to the point where I started forgetting where I had put stuff. In the process, moved the Moto Guzzi out of a dust covered corner and into full view, - to motivate myself to start working on it again! :-) Hope I do. Wanna ride that thing one day.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Sep 13, 2011, 10:10:07
Out of the shadows and back into view!

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Sept_13-028_small.jpg)
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: dewjantim on Sep 13, 2011, 22:35:00
Lookin' good Dale...... glad you are back  8) 8) 8) .
 
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Sep 14, 2011, 08:12:20
Thanks dewjantim, not sure if the "project" is back yet! :-) Need to finish up something else in next few weeks, but will start slowly on the Guzzi again...
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Swapmeet Louie on Sep 14, 2011, 12:15:22
Dale! This bike is one of my fave's... So sporty yet classy @ the same time. Like a Dino Ferrari
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Sep 14, 2011, 18:53:09
Be still my beating heart. (Been a closet Guzzi stalker in the mean time)
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Sep 15, 2011, 10:55:28
Dale! This bike is one of my fave's... So sporty yet classy @ the same time. Like a Dino Ferrari

You certainly have a way with words... :-) Its made me see this thing with fresh eyes again. Thanks my man. Insightful. :-) True or not, it checks a bunch of boxes with me regardless, and I get what you're saying...

Hey Hoosier!

(We need a high five button on this forum).
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: dewjantim on Sep 16, 2011, 01:35:01
I know all about getting sidetracked...... while waiting on parts for mine I did two mild cafe's and have turned my ducati pile into a roller....... hope to finish either the SS or the GTL before winter hits. I have to work in a way to pick up my new Yamaha Seca Turbo along in there somewhere, then detail it and get it running.....
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Sep 16, 2011, 15:29:39
I hear ya.

So you made a rolling chassis out of spare parts you had lying around? Cool. Please post something up, would be super interested to see it!

>>> Well, I started on the base for the seat.

Realized for the first time, that the rear light I'm using doesn't support a dual filament bulb, so going to have to do some kind of mod in order to have brake lights. Anyone know any cool tricks regarding this? :-)
 
Also had a look at the wiring harness, carbs, and brakes. These need to be done next I think.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Sept_13-014.jpg)

Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: crazypj on Sep 16, 2011, 18:22:10
Find a dual filament indicator at junk yard (preferable with busted case so its real cheap/free)
Yank the bulb holder and fit to the light you want to use.
 Alternatively, buy a pair of 'dual filament' LED mini indicators and fit one inside taillight (orange inside red lens may be a bit dark though?)
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: dewjantim on Sep 16, 2011, 22:02:16
Dale, I have been gathering parts for this project for about a year so they weren't exactly just lying there. The frame and wheels were painted a few months ago. I built the forks out of three different sets of Ducati front ends.... matching and swapping parts until I had a functional, adjustable front suspension. I was going to pay my Ducati mechanic friend to do this, but after keeping the parts for a month he said it could not be done. Since I had all the parts but no experience with USD forks I thought I might as well give it a try so parts were mixed and matched and the forks came together with new seals and fresh fluid. I have two red totes full of new and used parts along with all the body work which will have to be fitted, mounting holes drilled, then taken apart for paint. I will be busy on Saturday with a bike and car show. I am entering my low mileage (l500 mi) Moto Morini Sport 500, my Triumph bobber (which I built last year) and maybe my Cobra Mustang . I always let kids crawl on my stuff at the shows and get the parents to take pics of them. I then tell the judges to ignore the little hand prints on the paint........ wonder why I often win the "People's Choice" award.....hehehe. Sorry to hijack your thread.... got carried away..... will post some pics next week of my new Duc project  8) 8) 8) .
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Sep 19, 2011, 17:28:19
Thanks crazypj, - old internal that has similar diameter... that's probably the way to go. ...Perhaps a new led rear brake light unit could fit, if I could find something smaller, and rounder, as opposed to the superbike stuff that you see all the time...  I haven't seen anything like this though...

That sounds very cool dewjantim, so is the bike a specific model, or have you mixed various models and years? Hope you start a thread somewhere and post this stuff.  Very interesting.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: MickyC on Nov 02, 2011, 04:41:46
very nice build mate bike looks awesome so far mate
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: HoraceNZ1 on Dec 08, 2011, 21:17:26
Nice work I am currently working on my 1981 V50 MII I will post pics when she is done 
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: dewjantim on Dec 08, 2011, 22:46:04
Thanks crazypj, - old internal that has similar diameter... that's probably the way to go. ...Perhaps a new led rear brake light unit could fit, if I could find something smaller, and rounder, as opposed to the superbike stuff that you see all the time...  I haven't seen anything like this though...

That sounds very cool dewjantim, so is the bike a specific model, or have you mixed various models and years? Hope you start a thread somewhere and post this stuff.  Very interesting.

Mixed and matched parts from several different bikes. It is mostly together now...... rolling chassis with complete front end, wheels, tires, and handlebars, controls, and wiring. Have almost all the parts..... just have to get it painted, replace a cylinder and engine sidecover, attach lines and bleed brakes, then put on the bodywork. Pics will be posted soon. My GTL project is awaiting engine parts to be completed.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: two-smoker on Dec 10, 2011, 02:03:08
Dale, I posted a pic of a simple schematic some time ago for a similar issue. What you do is run an inline resistor for the main light, and wire the stop light switch so that it supplies full voltage after the resistor. Then you just need to run one wire to the light, but it will still have the dimming function.  I'll see if I can find the diagram, and I'll post it if I do.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Feb 02, 2012, 18:46:56
Dale, I posted a pic of a simple schematic some time ago for a similar issue. What you do is run an inline resistor for the main light, and wire the stop light switch so that it supplies full voltage after the resistor. Then you just need to run one wire to the light, but it will still have the dimming function.  I'll see if I can find the diagram, and I'll post it if I do.

That's a smart trick. And you didn't find the light too dim using this idea. Great lateral thinking :-) This may be the easiest and most effective solution, and dead simple. Thanks for posting.

Dale
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: two-smoker on Feb 03, 2012, 08:37:56
(http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae98/BurnOutSX4/2011-04-26125929.jpg) I found it!  As far as the dim setting being TOO dim, it all depends on the brightness of the bulb and how much resistance you choose to run. I just kept adding resistors in small increments until it looked right.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Feb 03, 2012, 11:05:39
Now that is science! :-) Thanks two-smoker - will definitely be doing this... :-) Dale
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: two-smoker on Feb 03, 2012, 11:09:47
For the record, I can't take credit for coming up with this idea. I saw it in an old issue of The Horse BC. But it is such a good idea, it would be criminal not to pass it along.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Tetter on Feb 12, 2012, 06:51:58
Hej Dale,

Just checked out your build, its Awesome !
Just 1 question? Where did you hide the battery?
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Feb 13, 2012, 08:14:25
Thanks Tetter.

The idea is to go for Li-Ion batteries packed at the bottom where the original batter would go.
However, I'm considering doing a phase 1 and phase 2 on this build - and canning all the fancy ideas, and just getting the bike done.
Stuff like original battery and Air box *may* be kept for now.
The idea behind the number board is to hide the original battery, much like the side cover would.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Beldrueger on May 12, 2012, 00:02:52
What happened to this build?
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: HarryB on May 15, 2012, 10:45:23
I was wondering the same, as it is one of my favorites in here...any updates?
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on May 16, 2012, 18:38:10
Hey guys, thanks for the interest.


Well the short answer is - I kinda got distracted.


I rebuilt my NSR250 MC21 track bike in June/July last year, (top left) then in September I started on my Honda MC28 (bottom left, which Ive just finished). In November/December I rebuilt my brothers Aprilia RS250.

I also started putting together another MC21 in Fortuna colours out of all the spare parts I had - 95% complete. (bottom right)
I was also dumb enough to start on my Ducati 900SS. (but this is low priority)

The Guzzi is collecting dust, and its a toss up between getting the MC21 done next, or get myself motivated on this little V50 again.

The culprits: :-)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/250/250_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: joeyputt on May 16, 2012, 23:27:52
My goodness you have a beautiful collection of motorcycles Brother!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: alexmac on May 17, 2012, 03:16:55
Need more Italian content here... enough with the sushi bikes!  ;D
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: andycafe on May 17, 2012, 03:46:13
Do the bloody Guzzi! LOL, Come on man you do such nice work i'm hanging to see how it comes up?
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on May 17, 2012, 10:55:46
My goodness you have a beautiful collection of motorcycles Brother!

Thank you man! :-)


Need more Italian content here... enough with the sushi bikes!  ;D

Brilliant! I think I'm going to make a little sushi logo for the Honda's :-)
Hey - the Aprillia's Italian!


Do the bloody Guzzi! LOL, Come on man you do such nice work i'm hanging to see how it comes up?

Ha! Yeah, the MC21 is closer to finished though, but its money spent, and the Guzzi needs funds, so gonna give it some thought.... :-)
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: JustinLonghorn on May 17, 2012, 11:30:30
Are the nice 2-Stroke sport bikes common in South Africa?
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on May 18, 2012, 10:38:50
Certain models are more easily available than others. The Honda MC28 for example is not easy to find. Aprillia's are getting more scarce. I guess once you're in the game, you find the circles that give you better access to the bikes. There was a national racing class for 250cc two-strokes that existed right up to the end of last year over here, so race bikes are available and there's spares here if you know where to look.

Two strokes in general are becoming more scarce and more difficult to keep on the road in general due to all sorts of legislation, as I'm sure you're fully aware. We haven't experience the clamp down yet here, but its inevitable.

Ive been told by a number of guys in the motorcycle industry that 250 two stroke racers are increasing in value, and are increasing in collectability. Who knows?

I'm assuming from your question that they are already getting rare in your neck of the woods?
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: two-smoker on May 18, 2012, 16:25:21
There never really were 250cc two-stroke racers available here in the States... At least not after the 70's. The last viable two-stroke road bike here was the Yamaha RZ350, or RD350LC/YPVS. After that, nothing.  The Gamma 250 Suzuki made it over as a grey from Canada here and there, but it's never been common.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: alexmac on Jul 28, 2012, 03:46:25
Any progress???
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: MickyC on Jul 28, 2012, 23:21:04
Any progress???

x2
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: v-pilot on Jul 29, 2012, 00:22:08
Hi Dale, Just stumbled across your build.  Read every page.  Holly crap awesome!!!  I'm finishing a mkl with mklll engine, lots of monza bits.  All matte black with red frame and other bits.  I didn't document it like you did but have a sort of picture flip book of disassembly and reassembly.  I tried to take pics from the same spot when something came off or went on.  Missed a bunch getting wrapped up in the task though.  Would be nice to see some dyno numbers.  Can't wait to get mine dyno'd.  I have 29mm flatslide dellorto's wedged in with a dual outlet K&N and a 2-1 header with a long can.  Taken 2 years so far, just need to tidy a few things
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Jul 29, 2012, 06:16:17
*SNIP* I'm finishing a mkl with mklll engine, lots of monza bits.... Taken 2 years so far, just need to tidy a few things *SNIP*

Welcome V-pilot! I for one, would love to see what you got. Put together an intro or build thread with some of the pics and put a link to it in your sig... Sounds very cool!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Jul 30, 2012, 14:44:24
Hey fellas.

Well, yup, funny you ask... I started working on the old gal about a week ago again.... Was wanting to post up a nice big update, but seeing as we're here, Ill post up some progress....

Hi Dale, Just stumbled across your build.  Read every page.  Holly crap awesome!!!  I'm finishing a mkl with mklll engine, lots of monza bits.  All matte black with red frame and other bits.  I didn't document it like you did but have a sort of picture flip book of disassembly and reassembly.  I tried to take pics from the same spot when something came off or went on.  Missed a bunch getting wrapped up in the task though.  Would be nice to see some dyno numbers.  Can't wait to get mine dyno'd.  I have 29mm flatslide dellorto's wedged in with a dual outlet K&N and a 2-1 header with a long can.  Taken 2 years so far, just need to tidy a few things

Now that sounds awesome! +1 on Hoosier Daddy's comment... If you haven't already... Ill go over and have a look. Would love to see that....


So the other week, a few buddies and myself went out for a Saturday morning ride, and one of the guys, who I hadn't met before was on a nicely restored LeMans. He had also spent two years restoring this bike. He's a photographer by trade, and he sent me these two pics the following Monday. I told him about my bike, and we got talking. This talk got me motivated to work on the V50 again...

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/guzzikevin.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/guzzijune-3511.jpg)


Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Jul 30, 2012, 14:46:11
Just making myself a sandwich and Ill do an update... :-)
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Jul 30, 2012, 15:20:30
I started working on the tank, doing a mod to replace the huge ugly plastic fuel cap cover with a metal LeMans replica cap. Ill post this up when done.

The other thing I need to do was work on the front fender...

The bike came with a plastic fender (red, left), and amongst the spares that came with the bike when I got it was this steel fender. So, firstly, the steel fender can be cut down and I can roll the edge to make it look good, as opposed to cutting the plastic, and the mounting bracket is also pressed steel, which, when bolted into place forms a rigid body, making the forks more rigid... Am I right? This to my mind is a performance upgrade? Had it powdercoated.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Dale_Fender_01.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Dale_Fender_11.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Dale_Fender_04.jpg)



So if you look at my concept image, the fender is cut down substantially. Its not meant to be functional. Its an aesthetic component for the most part...
In my drawing here, its also super snug on the tire. I *do* actually want this, - - the stock bracket used lifts the fender about an inch off the tire. Easy enough to drop it by making new holes, I'll see later, when the fender is fitted...

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/DaleBestV50_WIP_Red.jpg)

So from a visual perspective, I wanted the leading edge of the fender to start at exactly half way on the wheel, perpendicular to the ground...
Measured it up.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Dale_Fender_05.jpg)


I wanted the side I cut down to match the other side, so made a template by wetting a piece of paper and wrapping it around the end I wanted to emulate...

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Dale_Fender_02.jpg)


When dry, I had a paper replica to trace off from...

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Dale_Fender_03.jpg)


Cut.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Dale_Fender_06.jpg)


Roll.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Dale_Fender_08.jpg)


Tweak.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Dale_Fender_07.jpg)


Done.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Dale_Fender_09.jpg)


Its going to be painted, so the small marks and beating will easily be sorted with some light filler...
A nice quick job, but another tick off on the to do list....
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Update
Post by: Dale on Jul 30, 2012, 15:57:33
Before / After comparison

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Dale_Fender_10.jpg)
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Update
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Jul 30, 2012, 16:26:59
Fender came out pretty good, should look pretty nice mounted.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Update
Post by: Dale on Jul 30, 2012, 16:47:38
Thanks Hoosier! Its going to be a challenge fitting it without scratching the new paint... its plenty tight.

I'm busy rebuilding the calipers and upgrading the braking system currently. Ill probably post that up next, just waiting on a delivery of seals for the F05 Brembos...

Also starting tearing down the bike so that frame and various other components can go in for powder.

That means I can start on final assembly!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Update
Post by: alexmac on Jul 30, 2012, 19:21:49
Damn that looks great!

Superb craftsmanship!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe Update
Post by: Dale on Aug 02, 2012, 13:02:22
Thanks alexmac, its "ok" - good enough as its going to be painted. :-)

The calipers, as with every other component on this machine is well past its sel by date. The old Italian guy who rode this this little bike from home to work and back every day for close on 20 + years and who clocked up 80 000km ( 50 000 miles ) made good use of the bike! :-) Everything is worn. After he died, it stood for about 5 years outside. So the elements, time and use put its toll on this old gal.

It gives me a good feeling to be putting it back on the road again, and with maintenance, it should be running more than another 35 years before it needs a rebuild like this one... I hope.


Calipers

These earlier F05 Brembos came with chrome pistons. They were susceptible to rust. Knowing this I ordered the better anodised versions some time back. What I forgotten about was seals, so I ordered 3 sets the other day. Been a delay from the supplier, but I should have them next week or so.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Calipers_00.jpg)


Cracked them open, and as you can see, they are in pretty rough shape!

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Calipers_01.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Calipers_02.jpg)


Now, normally you get some air in there and push out the pistons that way. Not this time, they were too rusted in. So with a little heat and some gentle persuasion, making sure not to damage the cylinders, they came out easy enough. Cleaned up and are ready for some paint.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Calipers_03.jpg)

New Brembo anodised pistons ready for fitment.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Calipers_04.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Calipers_05.jpg)

And this is what Im waiting on:

The kits come with nice new bolts as well which saves me having to clean up the old ones. :-)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/R39659000-1.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/R39659100-1.jpg)


Once Ive got everything Ill post up the finished job.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: v-pilot on Aug 02, 2012, 21:52:31
Thanks Dale...for the go ahead :)  I put some pics of when I got her to start
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: v-pilot on Aug 03, 2012, 21:17:53
Hey Dale, U think the fender will be a tight fit?  Wait till you have to fit the front wheel in without marring the forks with the rotors while fumbling with the spacers and speedo drive...pain in the balls!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: v-pilot on Aug 03, 2012, 21:19:43
PS, I flipped the legs to get the calipers on the proper side...the back
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Aug 05, 2012, 15:55:51
Hey Dale, U think the fender will be a tight fit?  Wait till you have to fit the front wheel in without marring the forks with the rotors while fumbling with the spacers and speedo drive...pain in the balls!

Yup I fitted that stuff some time back, and its optimal in terms of space usage, to say the least.  Super compact.


Filler Cap

This Moto Guzzi was designed just close enough to the 80's to have fallen victim to the big plastic blocky stuff that started featuring on the motorcycles of the period.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Tank_01.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Tank_02.jpg)


So I got this Stainless steel LeMans replica filler cap.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Tank_08.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Tank_04.jpg)


This meant some modification to the tank.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Tank_06.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Tank_07.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Tank_05.jpg)


It needs a little tidying up, but its all functional, and sealing properly.
Took about 4 hours to do.


Edit > And the cap also needed to be modified slightly...
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: v-pilot on Aug 06, 2012, 10:22:21
WOW, U go man!!  That's gonna look great!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Papa Smurf on Aug 09, 2012, 06:20:56
Hi Dale,

Love your work.

I've been lurking for too long - registered this morning - http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=40103.msg438087#msg438087.

Last weekend I collected a V50 in sad cosmetic condition - paid more for the trip than the bike. Found out we live within visiting distance so if you don't mind, I'll make contact.

Regards,
Papa Smurf in Germiston, Sunny South Africa
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Aug 10, 2012, 10:24:30
Thanks guys! (Papasmurf, I replied on your new member thread...)


The tank, side covers (yup, I'm going with them for now), and the front fender are ready for paint. Hopefully going in next week. That's the plan.

Still don't know what color I'm going with though.... its narrowed down to Black or Red at this point.

Red feels like the obvious choice, always has, but thing is, ALL my bikes are red, and a change would be cool. But not sure if that's a good enough reason.

So here it is in plain red and plain black...
The plain paint scheme feels nice and classical to me.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Dale_blkandred.jpg)


And potentially a simple stripe down the middle... It definitely lightens up the tone, but not sure I want that...

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Dale_Red.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Dale_DarkGreyBlue.jpg)

Instead of black, here's a more dark blue grey close to black - maybe a bit more interesting...

Just for fun, here's yellow:

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Dale_Yel.jpg)

Edit > And green:

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Dale_Grn.jpg)


I'm probably still going to be going red?/black?/red?/black? when I drop the stuff off at the painter...
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: JustinLonghorn on Aug 10, 2012, 10:32:35
I am in the same boat when it comes to paint, sir.

Hmmmm.... I vote red, and I don't even like red. Ha.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Tetter on Aug 10, 2012, 15:04:35
My choice would be Red, but leave the covers in black.
Maybe even put the number 79 on the covers, like on the numberplate
Title: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: alexmac on Aug 10, 2012, 15:41:08
My vote would be for the red with the white stripe. The world has enough bikes painted black.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: v-pilot on Aug 10, 2012, 21:35:28
Hey Dale, Tough dilemma!  My 2 Le Mans are red/white and the Duc is of course red.  So was the same for me.  Yes I prefer Italian bikes in red and British sports cars in green but...I went with a change...a V50 Scura (dark in Italian)  Matte black with the red accents as seen in my wheel pics...motor pics coming next week.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Aug 11, 2012, 05:43:34
I thought I settled this for you already with the Italian flag...  ;D
 
(http://www.rubvalves.com/upload/UserFiles/Italy_flag.gif)
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: v-pilot on Aug 11, 2012, 12:39:26
I'm in with Hoosier Daddy...dare to be different.  The bike is a radical departure...paint it to match!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: dewjantim on Aug 11, 2012, 20:50:46
Lookin' good Dale. I am kind of partial to the red with white stripes paint....... with maybe a couple of green pinstripes on each side of the white stripe........
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Aug 14, 2012, 11:06:54
Well, paint is delayed to end of month in theory. Dude is fully booked until then. I'm racing with him tomorrow night, so he says he'll take the stuff then and if he gets a gap he'll do it sooner.

I'm going to keep this little moto understated I think, and go with a simple black, and let its shape and form shine through.

I'll probably go a little over-the-top on the 900SS Ducati Cafe Racer, which is going to be a much more rough and ready build. This build really is about detail, and I want the purity to shine through... Its actually a relief to just make a decision on it. Been so back and forth. :-)

RIGHT! So packages arrived today.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Brakes_01.jpg)

Im back on the brakes as a result.

Moto Guzzi has a unique braking setup. Front lever operates right front caliper. Foot lever operates rear caliper and left front caliper. The front lever in stock form is a cable which operates a master cylinder under the tank.

Brembo upgraded this system to a more conventional one, whereby you have a reservoir and master cylinder built into the lever unit.

Im considering setting it up to a conventional system where the front hand lever operates both front calipers, and the foot brake operates the rear caliper. I'm thinking about going this route for no other reason than my riding style which has its roots in sport bike riding. Not sure if if will do this yet, but will make a decision soon.

I'll also be using stainless braided hosing.

Also decided to get a new rear master cylinder. Kits are available, but my personal experience rebuilding them has not always been good. Sometimes its more than seals etc that are worn, its the internal cylinder as well.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Brakes_02.jpg)
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: baldilocks on Aug 18, 2012, 06:59:52
Hi

Just wanted to say its been a great read, have only just come across your build, will be tracking it from now on.

Noted your comment on keeping standard pegs.  I remember on fitting clip ons to mine I found it awkward so next pay cheque the rear sets went on, made a big difference but I was doing a lot of miles.

Gordon
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Aug 19, 2012, 14:37:08
Thanks for the info! Tell me more about the rearsets...

Calipers Continued...

Painted up the calipers the other day in satin black, ended up looking a touch too glossy, so a fine mist of clear satin got them looking closer to factory.

Put them together today...
Here's all the components from the various replacement kits...

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Calipers_B03.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Calipers_B01.jpg)


Kits came with this lubricant... Its really great to work with.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Calipers_B02.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Calipers_B06.jpg)


A quick Before / After ...

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Calipers_B07.jpg)


And the final product. Vintage Brembos - good as new.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Calipers_B05.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Calipers_B04.jpg)

Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe ** Calipers Rebuilt **
Post by: Dale on Aug 20, 2012, 12:07:42
I should be working...

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/DaleBestV50.jpg)
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe ** Calipers Rebuilt **
Post by: Maritime on Aug 20, 2012, 12:58:17
Nice work.  I should be working too but your bike is worth a break to look at.

Maritime
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe ** Calipers Rebuilt **
Post by: Dale on Aug 20, 2012, 13:05:05
Ha thanks buddy! Appreciated. I'm sitting here at work and wishing I was at home working on the bike... ugghhh
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe ** Calipers Rebuilt **
Post by: Maritime on Aug 20, 2012, 13:10:24
Yep, also I agree to set the brakes up as front and rear seperately, the linked system I think is for less agressive riding and for people who don't know how to brake properly. i.e. use the front, ha ha, there are a lot of riders that are scared of the front brakes or who grab a mitful halfway through a turn and wonder why the front gives out and they low side.  Oh yeah and I get why the black but I still like the red.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe ** Calipers Rebuilt **
Post by: v-pilot on Aug 20, 2012, 21:44:10
Hey Dale, You're  killin' it for sure(which is good!)  For my rear sets I went with lower frame rails and controls from a V50 Monza...simple bolt on and comfy, hard to find though   At near 50 I just can't take being folded up for very long.  I also de-linked the brakes.  Just use a front master cylinder in the back, it bolts right up.  I went with a Monza trany for the taller gearing too.  The box is the same just a different input set, which can be changed.  There was one Guzzi that had an even taller set but don't remember which one at the moment
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe ** Calipers Rebuilt **
Post by: Dale on Aug 21, 2012, 06:35:22
Yep, also I agree to set the brakes up as front and rear seperately, the linked system I think is for less agressive riding

I also de-linked the brakes.

Did you ride the bike with the linked system? How does the standard setup compare?


For my rear sets I went with lower frame rails and controls from a V50 Monza...simple bolt on and comfy, hard to find though   At near 50 I just can't take being folded up for very long.

That's interesting, so same frame rails, just different peg position? ( What is the measured difference? ). Or does it have an actual factory rear set? Good to know, and seeing as its bolt on, Ill look out for finding Monza rails general going forward... I nearly picked up a Monza for parts a couple of years ago, but someone got to it before me...
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: v-pilot on Aug 21, 2012, 10:35:16
Hi Dale, Not sure when they went to the linked brakes...mid '70's ish.  All of the Guzzi's have it.  My '87 Le Mans does.  Harder to de-link those...you need to go with Brembo stuff used on Ducati's.  With the linked set up the front doesn't dive so much or so fast...it takes getting used to, especially trail braking.  I've had mine for so long and know it so well I have no problem keeping up with friends on newer stuff in the twisties.  It tends to not make the bike want to stand up if you have to brake in a corner, also doesn't feel as if the front wants to tuck for a low side either (if you do brake that late...well I'm not going there)  It's pretty forgiving.  I'll measure the two rails and get back
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Tetter on Aug 22, 2012, 06:21:26
I should be working...

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/DaleBestV50.jpg)

Very cool picture man !
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Aug 25, 2012, 06:57:27
Thanks Tetter! :-)

Got to working on the gauges.

Here they are in stock form, gauge cups sit in a plastic holder. As Im not using the holder any more, painted up the cups in black, as I didnt want them to stand out.
This is the unit from my donor bike, to show what it looks like.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Clocks_01.jpg)

Painted cups.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Clocks_04.jpg)

Cleaned everything up, and polished the glass. Minor condensation had marked the inside of the glass, as is to be expected.

Tried to fix up the thin aluminum outer rings as best I could.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Clocks_05.jpg)

Mounted up in the new bracket.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Clocks_03.jpg)

Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Aug 25, 2012, 07:07:34
*DROOL*
 ;D
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: v-pilot on Aug 25, 2012, 22:12:49
Ditto on the DROOL...Geez Louise, those took BN!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Aug 27, 2012, 08:24:30
Ha, thanks dudes! Took some parts (like the frame) in for powder today. That means final assembly is on the horizon!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: SehnsuchtMotoMan on Aug 29, 2012, 18:37:00
This is an awesome build.  This bike is going to be beautiful!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Aug 31, 2012, 07:04:01
Thanks SehnsuchtMotoMan.


Sent this stuff in earlier in the week for powder coating:

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Frame_01.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Frame_02.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Frame_03.jpg)



And here it is in nice new tough powder:

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Frame_04.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Frame_07.jpg)



Did some parts in matt and some in satin:

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Frame_05.jpg)
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: dewjantim on Aug 31, 2012, 09:27:09
Lookin' good Dale....... can't wait to see it done !!!!!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: JustinLonghorn on Aug 31, 2012, 09:30:32
Very nice, man!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Aug 31, 2012, 10:56:39
Thankyou gentlemen! :-D

Picked up these NOS Moto Guzzi Pedal rubber...

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Lever_01.jpg)

I plan on potentially putting rearsets on at some point... but in the meantime, Ive been refurbishing the stock setup.

BEFORE:

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Lever_03.jpg)

AFTER:

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Lever_02jpg.jpg)


New bushes were machined into the lower rails, and there's zero play now.
I actually kinda like the retro simplicity of it all.
If they're in a comfortable position, I may just keep it this way...
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: v-pilot on Aug 31, 2012, 19:42:39
Funny Dale...I did my foot controls in black too.  You can see in my pics the position of the Monza controls.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Kanten on Sep 04, 2012, 09:35:07
Hi Dale.

Fellow V50 owner here, and what a sweet project you got going. Love the craftsmanship!

One question, what are those footrests? Did you change/grind the stock mounting tab? Cant seem to find any pedals that will fit the stock tabs
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Sep 04, 2012, 16:01:20
Sure v-pilot, the original chrome finish on the levers stands out a bit too much for me.

Hi Kanten - I modified both the peg as well as the mounting brackets on the rails slightly... A small amount of grinding off both, being careful to get the angle of the cuts right in order to have the pegs mounting perfectly perpendicular to the ground when fitted...



Started fitting various components onto the frame.

Here's the new rear brake master cylinder and battery base plate...
 
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Frame_08.jpg)


Tripple clamps... new bearings packed in... and riveted the identification plate back on...

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/ID_Plate_blur.jpg)



Air

Managed to get a replacement air filter box collector. They're made from rubber, so time has perished the unit I had.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Airbox_03.jpg)


Cleaned up the tins, and finished them in cold galvanising spray.
Soaked the plastics in silicone spray for a few days to revitalise the plastic and rubber.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Airbox_04.jpg)


Stock paper filter vs a high performance and durable cotton K&N filter...

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Airbox_08.jpg)


The whole lot put together.

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Airbox_07.jpg)


Airflow

A lot of right angles going on there...

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Airbox_11.jpg)


So was thinking, by making up a simple circular plate, and bolting it to the leading edge of the air filter, I can remove the cylinderical air box and have the K&N filter completely exposed...
What do you guys think?

Like this:

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Airbox_09.jpg)

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/Airbox_10.jpg)

The tank mounts over the filter, and good amount of protection is there.



Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: crazypj on Sep 04, 2012, 22:59:31
You'll probably lose power without full airbox, it can only 'suck' hot air from between cylinders.
 It may be possible to find moulded pipe to change shape (dryer hose, plumbing fittings?) and extend intake in front of cylinders
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: v-pilot on Sep 05, 2012, 00:05:33
Probably won't loose power due to sucking hot air, you'll have plenty of air flow.  The problem is 90 deg v-twins make a lot of torque down low.  If you free it up too much, that's where all your power will be...high in the rev range making the power delivery not so linear, that's why racers run open velocity stacks...high R's  If you plan on running it to within an inch of it's life, free it up.  Torque=horsepower @ 5250rpm, always without exception.  The two curves pivot at that point.  This head design(herron) can only move so much air, that is where you are limited.  My Le Mans is free(dual k&n's and drilled pipes)...It's a hemi head and doesn't come to a boil until 4500-5000, then you need to hold on tight...red line comes quick.  It is a big valve setup and that doesn't help the low end either.  The Special edition was their out of the box race bike, has straight cut close ratio trans.  My tuner wanted the stock setup on the 50 but it wouldn't fit with the bigger carbs...next best is to have both carbs breathing through the same filter...bigger is better.  I'm sending my tuner the Le Mans in April for a stock intake retrofit setup...I'd like it to be a bit more tractable down low, not that the "house of fire" isn't fun, it is...just sayin'
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Sep 05, 2012, 07:16:42
Guys, thanks for the great feedback.

crazypj, my initial concern was also the heat issue. But secondly, I'm thinking its also not smart to have the filter exposed like this, as any kind of moisture getting in there (the filter would be clamped from both sides and sealed with sealing grease) will cause problems I don't want.

v-pilot, so your tuner guy suggested the stock airbox as the best option?

What I want is a smooth running, reliable setup. This is no race bike. Its a 498cc motor. Ive got other bikes that you ride on the bleeding edge. This is not the case for this bike.
We always think we know better than the manufacturer. I guess its because they err towards the conservative. And in this case, this is where I'm at. I think you've convinced me to go stock. The K&N fitted into the stock airbox will provide better flow than the OEM filter anyway...

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Erskine on Sep 05, 2012, 14:12:55
It's these explorations and gems of wisdom revealed that make following builds on here such a worthwhile distraction from doing work :)
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: v-pilot on Sep 09, 2012, 20:49:02
It's these explorations and gems of wisdom revealed that make following builds on here such a worthwhile distraction from doing work :)
Amen to that, brother!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: guzzi mike on Sep 27, 2012, 12:33:31
Hi Dale - love the red tank - my 1979 v50 mkII has the horrible massive black plastic cap which serves as fuel cap + cover for master brake cylinder

did you change your mkII tank for a different model to get that cool chrome cap to fit?

I have recently started to rebuild my mkII after it has been sat in my brother's garage for 10+ years

would like to swap experiences + ideas - I am thinking of some twists on the cafe racer theme - I have gone for a silver tank but silver metallic rather than the trad chrome alu tank

you can email me at email@mikematthews.org.uk
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: MoToBoX-VintageSpeed on Sep 27, 2012, 13:50:12
Airbox yes or no?
No. We drive two single K&Ns on every bike without a problem.
Torque comes from a good filling ratio, not from that piece of plastic between the two V cylinders.
Hot air isn t a problem when u drive... perhaps in the city stop and go, but with stock "airbox" even more i think.

Nice bike and work by the way, like it!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: dewjantim on Oct 29, 2012, 12:22:33
Hey Dale..... how is this project going? I finished my Cafe Duc, then bought a Guzzi V65 Lario and am working on it now. I love it......... nothing like gettin' goosed'. Hehehehe. :o :o :o
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Oct 29, 2012, 13:03:26
Jeezus!
Ducs, a Beezah, AND a Guzzi
You sir are truely admirable!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: dewjantim on Oct 29, 2012, 13:25:46
Well Hoosier...... I haven't posted any pics of my three HD's (Electra Glide, Ironhead Bobber, and Hot Rod Evo Sporty), Royal Enfield, BMWs, 80' Moto Morini 500 Sport (1700 miles) or the rest of my Ducati collection.........  :o :o :o
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Oct 29, 2012, 20:09:50
**faint**
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: v-pilot on Oct 29, 2012, 20:56:47
Well Hoosier...... I haven't posted any pics of my three HD's (Electra Glide, Ironhead Bobber, and Hot Rod Evo Sporty), Royal Enfield, BMWs, 80' Moto Morini 500 Sport (1700 miles) or the rest of my Ducati collection.........  :o :o :o
Nice, The little GTL?  I was watching...you should finish the post
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: dewjantim on Oct 29, 2012, 23:19:35
I didn't count it because it is still a work in progress....... will start working on it again very soon.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: -alan- on Nov 10, 2012, 13:43:14
Glad to see you've picked up work on the Guzzi again Dale. Last time I looked in, you'd finished the concept, tore the bike down, built the seat. It was largely due to inspiration from your thread, and the concept pics that  I pulled my V50 out from below a tarp in the shed and took it apart about this time last year :) 

I was going well until I hit difficulties in freeing up the  centre part of the frame from battery and carb air-box. Finding a battery to locate beneath the seat has proved problematic because of the size of battery necessary to cope with the current drain required by the starter motor. Despite the small capacity and lowish compression of the little V, the current requirements are bigger than most Jap V-twins of any capacity, and bigger than most big BMW twins as well. Seems down to the old design of the windings in the V50s starter motor.  Not entirely unsurmountable, with either a very expensive battery, or possible a modified starter motor, but enough to give pause for thought.

The other thing worth considering is that despite not being the largest individual around (5'9"/11st) I find the seating position with clip ons tends towards being a bit cramped and uncomfortable - certainly with the standard pegs, and not much better unless you get your feet right back almost to where the rear pegs are mounted. I think it's because of the combination of short frame and high peg position. I can get comfortable on a friend's LeMans with the longer tank, and stretched out  riding position, but just can't get comfy on the V50. For me, I might  just have to back off a little and go for flat bars, or even a higher flat-tracker riding position - which would be a shame, because the little bike almost cries out to be cafe-ed. Curious to see how you find both the ergonomics and whether you find a better battery solution than I have to date.

Outstanding build and workmanship to date btw - I suspect you have single-handedly given rise to the rebirth of more V50s than any other human being on the planet to date :)

alan 
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Nov 12, 2012, 06:21:04
MoToboX, thanks for the info. You guys are doing some very cool stuff there...

guzzi mike, I modified the V50 tank to take a Lemans cap. Page 24 of this thread.

dewjantim, great stuff on the V65.

-alan- Great stuff, and thanks for the kind words. I do sometimes think I may have inadvertently started a V50 awareness campaign somehow... I get a lot of emails from people all over the world on a regular basis. Before I started this project, I could hardly find anything of any kind of significance related to cool stuff being done with a  V50, (and its variants)  and now there seems to be some cool stuff happening...

--

So I should have an update in the next week or two. The tins will be back from my buddy Mario who's shot some BMW Diamond black on them, and a guy I met through cart racing has a CNC shop. I've designed some brackets etc on CAD, and he's going to make them up for me.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Nov 15, 2012, 14:37:33
Got the tank, fender and sidecovers (just in case) back from Mario today. My brief to him was that I wanted it "Showroom". And he delivered! Its really one of the best paint jobs Ive seen. I'm super happy. Even the undersides are immaculate. These pics just don't do it justice.

Its BMW Diamond Black. In darker light, it looks pretty black. In the sun, it has a subtle purple/blue undertone. Its a metallic finish, and its adding just enough bling to the understated solid black that I wanted.

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/paint_fender_03.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/paint_fender_01.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/paint_fender_02.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Tank_03.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Tank_01.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Tank_02.jpg)
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: JustinLonghorn on Nov 15, 2012, 14:39:02
Purrdy.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Nov 15, 2012, 14:41:51
Thanks man! :-) Yeah, its a milestone in the build for me.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: dewjantim on Nov 15, 2012, 18:41:04
Very nice paint....... gettin' closer.....closer.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: v-pilot on Nov 15, 2012, 22:47:30
Hey Dale, SICK paint!  :)
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: sovern on Nov 15, 2012, 23:08:17
Wow. What a beauty.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: MoToBoX-VintageSpeed on Nov 16, 2012, 06:49:24
thats....blue?
ok..i m curious about the look of the complete bike
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Nov 17, 2012, 04:14:47
BEAUTIFUL!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: MickyC on Nov 17, 2012, 22:30:50
great looking paint im stinging to see it all together
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: JonathanCB360T on Nov 17, 2012, 23:34:28
Really Nice build. I am digging the attention to detail and the fact that you can't let anything get overlooked. proud!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Nov 19, 2012, 03:57:17
Thanks gentlemen. I think the color will contrast nicely with some polished aluminum and black leather components. Next step is getting some aluminum parts CNC cut. Should have done this before painting.

I've disassembled the rear drive hub again, and asked my dad to check the backlash, before I go into final assembly. He's a retired Mech Engineer, and I told him about my project and asked if he could have a look. Gave it to him on Saturday. I just wanted to make sure, as the drive had been "fixed" by somebody in the past, but there were no shims in there. When I tested it, I had to put in some shims (from a spare unit I had). I'm no expert on this, if anyone knows anything about this component, please share! :-)

v-pilot, motobox, quantity/grade etc oil do you put in the rear-drive hub?

Also, I'm considering upgrading the steering head bearings to roller bearings. Current system is top and bottom cups with bearings packed into them. Not great. Found some resources, but seems overly complicated. Any knowledge will be appreciated.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: 50gary on Nov 19, 2012, 09:51:57
For the tapered roller bearing  I use "All Balls Racing" they have virtually every bike.  Usually only about $39.95  It easy to install them, just use a drift and tap out the old races and press in the new races (called cups in this case, the tapered bearing is referred to as the cone and the race as the cup).  The lower bearing will be pressed into place, the upper bearing slides into place and is used to set bearing pre-load by tightening the spanner nut(s) on the top.  It's not a difficult process.  It's a cheap and good upgrade IMO  as tapered rollers were invented to accept axial loads, exactly what steering loads are.  Factories use loose ball bearing bcasue they are cheaper, Harley Davidson has always used tapered rollers.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Nov 19, 2012, 10:12:32
Great info thanks, Ill look them up...
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: v-pilot on Nov 20, 2012, 22:58:20
Thanks gentlemen. I think the color will contrast nicely with some polished aluminum and black leather components. Next step is getting some aluminum parts CNC cut. Should have done this before painting.

I've disassembled the rear drive hub again, and asked my dad to check the backlash, before I go into final assembly. He's a retired Mech Engineer, and I told him about my project and asked if he could have a look. Gave it to him on Saturday. I just wanted to make sure, as the drive had been "fixed" by somebody in the past, but there were no shims in there. When I tested it, I had to put in some shims (from a spare unit I had). I'm no expert on this, if anyone knows anything about this component, please share! :-)

v-pilot, motobox, quantity/grade etc oil do you put in the rear-drive hub?

Also, I'm considering upgrading the steering head bearings to roller bearings. Current system is top and bottom cups with bearings packed into them. Not great. Found some resources, but seems overly complicated. Any knowledge will be appreciated.
I used some synthetic...Castrol, I think of the weight called for...I consulted Dave Richardson's Guzziology, also added a bit of Moly additive...same went for the trany.  I can look it up.  If you don't have that book, it's priceless.  Available on fleabay pretty resonable
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: v-pilot on Nov 20, 2012, 23:01:02
There is also a small lubrication modification for the pinion area in the book which I did when I had it apart
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: v-pilot on Nov 21, 2012, 01:07:24
Hi Dale, I used 85w-140 Castrol Full Synthetic even though they said the moly doesn't stay mixed...160cc oil, 10cc moly.  I measured it out.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Nov 21, 2012, 12:18:42
Thanks v-pilot! Good info.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: -alan- on Nov 22, 2012, 10:19:17

I've disassembled the rear drive hub again, and asked my dad to check the backlash, before I go into final assembly. He's a retired Mech Engineer, and I told him about my project and asked if he could have a look. Gave it to him on Saturday. I just wanted to make sure, as the drive had been "fixed" by somebody in the past, but there were no shims in there. When I tested it, I had to put in some shims (from a spare unit I had). I'm no expert on this, if anyone knows anything about this component, please share! :-)


The clearance between the pinion and crownwheel is adjusted by the shim(s) that sit on the pinion shaft behind the rearmost taper bearing. The procedure recommended in the workshop manual is to coat the pinion teeth with engineers blue, reassemble the rear drive and rotate the pinion and wheel by hand on the bench with the teeth meshing under light load to check the contact patch. Depending on the results, you then vary the size of shim to get the correct mesh pattern.

I still have the original V50 manual I got with mine. Don't mind scanning and emailing pages for any builders who want to see the original workshop instructions for anything, just drop me a pm or better, email me.

Alan 

Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Nov 23, 2012, 05:51:11
Thanks for the info -alan-, that's pretty much the procedure I took, only thing is I'm not entirely sure of what that "contact patch" is supposed to look like...   Does your manual show a photo or diagram giving the most desirable size patch etc... - I'm not using the correct terminology, but you know what I mean.

As I said, my hub had its shims removed...  so the factory setup was lost....
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: v-pilot on Nov 23, 2012, 12:34:13
I'm pretty sure a "ring and pinion is a ring and pinion" when it comes to setting the backlash.  You should be able to find a pic or illustration in any shop manual to see the contact pattern :)
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: danejurrous on Nov 23, 2012, 13:42:11
Granted I have never set a ring and pinion pattern on a bike, only on big trucks, the best way to do it is to use grease and go over it once or twice around to get a good look at the pattern to make sure it is wearing in the center of the ring gear rather than the outside edge or inside edge. This is essentially what you would want it to look like.

(http://www.gearinstalls.com/colbyfront_files/colby16.jpg)
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Nov 23, 2012, 15:46:10
Great info. Thanks for posting the image danejurrous.
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: danejurrous on Nov 23, 2012, 16:15:00
Great info. Thanks for posting the image danejurrous.

I may not be a motorcycle guru yet but I have had my hands in a fair share of gear sets. Great looking bike man keep up the good work!
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Nov 24, 2012, 08:49:54
Been a long time but if I remember right you move the patern in / out by adjusting the side load of the ring gear and up / down by the pinion depth...both of which effect your backlash... maybe danejurrous can verify.
 And I am sure there is a spec for the backlash, (.*** +/- .***) so you'll probably need a dial indicator as well to set it up right.
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dutch Von Shed on Nov 24, 2012, 14:31:25
This is one of the best home builds I've ever seen. Love Guzzis anyway, but I really love the attention to detail in the way you've designed the seat to complement the segmented v50 tank for perfectly. It looks like it was created from the same designer's pen, but with way more class and balance to the overall weight and stance of the bike. Also - the way it tapers to the tail light is superb and the seemless lines to the set padding are a revelation. I'm blown away, and really REALLY can't wait to see this finished...

...and as for the paint - I like the metallic black option, but leave room from a stripe or some detail, otherwise those stunning lines will be lost in photos... (I've had too many all black bikes myself).

Great work!
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: beachcomber on Nov 25, 2012, 10:55:20
Oh dear .................... I deliberately kept away from this build since my early post.

Pissing down with rain today and can't be bothered to go up to a freezing garage [ although I should ].

Decided I would go through the build after all as I love Italian bikes and Guzzis in particular.

Stunning work my man, a credit to you.

So then, a glass or two of Glen Morangie's finest and I'm trawling aimlessly through my latest copy of Classic Bike mag. Everything silly expensive, but you never know.

I've been looking for a Morini 350 / 500 to use as a basis for a Boardtracker for some time now. .....wow, "Moto Morini 350 and 500 parts - call". Called the advertiser and 10 minutes into the conversation I realise it was Moto-GUZZI 350 / 500 parts. Damn, must wear the glasses / drink less when trawling that small ads.

Anyway, turns out he has a V50 that had a very minor fire [ backfire through airbox.] which did some minor damage to the loom before it could be extinguished. Otherwise the bike is complete with a V5 [ Title ] and the guy's spent loads of money buying parts. It sounds cosmetically challenged, but mechanically good AND he's jury rigged the wiring to get it running.

Again ...... oh dear.

I have loads of spare clip-ons, rearsets, Meggas, dah, dee, dah, dee dah. Even a very nice Triton tank that I KNOW fits Guzzi's as I had one on my Lemon. Benelli race seat - ditto Duke 750SS, AJS7R, Manx.

The 500 is probably too small physically for my bulk, but ...........

So thank you Dale for the inspiration ...just remains to see if the guy accepts my pitiful offer.
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: beachcomber on Nov 25, 2012, 19:02:37
and he has  8)....................................... "Mini Lemon" thread starting soon.
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: juan@crqcycles on Nov 26, 2012, 02:30:43
and he has  8)....................................... "Mini Lemon" thread starting soon.

Sweeet man! COngrats!
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: beachcomber on Nov 26, 2012, 06:11:12
Sweeet man! COngrats!

YOU KNOW THAT OLD SAYING ABOUT COUNTING CHICKENS ????????????

Just phoned the seller up to arrange collection and guess what - yep he's sold it to someone else.

lost for words, well any you could repeat in front of the Vicar.
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: danejurrous on Nov 26, 2012, 10:22:57
Been a long time but if I remember right you move the patern in / out by adjusting the side load of the ring gear and up / down by the pinion depth...both of which effect your backlash... maybe danejurrous can verify.
 And I am sure there is a spec for the backlash, (.*** +/- .***) so you'll probably need a dial indicator as well to set it up right.

As usual you are spot on HD. To get more or less contact on the ring and get a wider or thinner pattern you would adjust the ring gear closer or farther from the pinion, some vehicles have screw adjusters although I am assuming the guzzi would utilize shims. You kinda have to play around with it a little bit. From there you also would need to shim the pinion gear in or out to make sure it is contacting in the center of the ring gear as I had shown in my previous post. Once you have it set as close as you can then comes in the dial indicator to make sure you have the correct torque spec on the pinion gear to make sure the bearings have the correct amount of pressure on them. Feel free to PM me and I can shoot ya my number if needed. Happy to help in anyway I can.
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Nov 26, 2012, 14:07:37
Thanks for the help danjerous, HD. Yup it uses shims. I'll bug you if I get caught. :-)

That's a bit of a rollercoaster beechcomber! Whats meant to be will be I guess... still... :-/ Would have been cool to have another V50 on here...
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: -alan- on Nov 26, 2012, 14:37:12
...
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: crazypj on Nov 26, 2012, 16:28:40
It's lots of fun, I did the one on my MKI
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Nov 27, 2012, 04:59:59
-alan- thanks a bunch! Just saved the images and will print out. Invaluable. Appreciated.

This is one of the best home builds I've ever seen. Love Guzzis anyway, but I really love the attention to detail in the way you've designed the seat to complement the segmented v50 tank for perfectly. It looks like it was created from the same designer's pen, but with way more class and balance to the overall weight and stance of the bike. Also - the way it tapers to the tail light is superb and the seemless lines to the set padding are a revelation. I'm blown away, and really REALLY can't wait to see this finished...

...and as for the paint - I like the metallic black option, but leave room from a stripe or some detail, otherwise those stunning lines will be lost in photos... (I've had too many all black bikes myself).

Great work!

Dutch, thanks for the kind words! Very motivating.

crazypj - didnt know you had a MKI. Thought you were a die hard 2 stroker!
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: crazypj on Nov 27, 2012, 11:52:33
Nope, I'm British so ride what I can afford at the time (or borrow from shops I worked in)  ;)
Only bike I've kept from new is 1977 CB550 F1
 I had 2 Guzzi 500's, one for spares  ;)
I remember who I sold them to but not why  ::)
Also had a newer 750 for about 5~6 months (looks like 500 motor, it was new so I never did anything to it)
Been mostly a four-stroke 'fan' but had to get two stroke when racing so ended up with several from 1979~80 until around 1994~95
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: hardcoreharryjr on Oct 12, 2013, 23:40:50
What happened to this build? Was looking pretty sweet...
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: russburch84 on Nov 02, 2014, 07:13:23
What's the latest on this build?
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Jun 16, 2015, 06:42:41
... TWO AND A HALF YEARS LATER

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Parts_zpsuay38lo7.jpg)

Got home on Saturday night and just felt inspired to finish this bike. Started digging up bits and pieces everywhere.

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Motor_zpsrbd7j4ek.jpg)

START AT THE BEGINNING. Again. :-)
Cleaned up the motor - everything really dusty after lying in my shed for a couple of years.

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Assembly_01_zps9sc4niil.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Assembly_03_zpse5raevkk.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Assembly_02_zpsae4jhd6p.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Assembly_04_zpsy4eianma.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Assembly_05_zpsptwh7eec.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Assembly_06_zpsunjsuwc1.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Assembly_07_zps2ayozrsa.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Assembly_08_zpsxzjlfxap.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Assembly_09_zpsdjz63qnn.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Assembly_10_zpsedk9vfz5.jpg)
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: DesertKZ on Jun 16, 2015, 12:42:00
Man that looks sweeeeet.  Cool pics.
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Maritime on Jun 16, 2015, 13:25:45
Nice to see this bike getting some love again.
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Jun 16, 2015, 16:47:48
Maritime, DesertKZ, yeah, thanks!

Few items still to be done.

Carburetors are the last mechanical item that needed to be restored. Did them today.


(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/carburetors_01_zpsjlpwjtfh.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/carburetors_02_zpssxychsgy.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/carburetors_03_zpsla2qetww.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/carburetors_05_zpsrmj8jvjg.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/carburetors_04_zps99he1oic.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/carburetors_06_zps8xierj6f.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/carburetors_07_zpszlqpghwz.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/carburetors_08_zpstxgeyqx9.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/carburetors_09_zpsg0pqin1v.jpg)
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: crazypj on Jun 16, 2015, 21:48:33
Yay, the 'on hold' is finally over (unlike my XS650~800~840 re-phase projects  :o )
Nice to see you'll have a rider soon
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: coyote13 on Jun 17, 2015, 00:03:30
I would have lost at least 1/3 of the parts to that bike by now
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Jun 17, 2015, 11:20:53
Hey crazypj, I hope so, still got a list of stuff to do, but its getting there!

I would have lost at least 1/3 of the parts to that bike by now

Well, on point: I HAVE lost a couple of parts:

Does ANYONE have any ( ideas / leads / items ) that you're able to assist me with?

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Driveshaft_splined_coupler_zpsmi02mjke.jpg)
DRIVESHAFT SPLINED COLLAR & PINION

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Gear_selector_Linkage_zpsx63vxvsq.jpg)
GEAR SELECTOR LINKAGE
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Maritime on Jun 17, 2015, 11:24:58
Oh no, are they all in the same box missing somewhere?
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Jun 17, 2015, 11:29:53
Maritime, I've either given them away or thrown them away. I did a big clear-out about a year ago. I know for sure that I don't have them anymore. :-/ Couple of other smaller items too, but these are the critical ones.
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Maritime on Jun 17, 2015, 11:31:26
Ouch, one of those, WTF are these for?  must be spares, here take them.........crap I needed those.
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Jun 17, 2015, 13:46:52
YUP! Exactly that! :-D :-(
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: zachattach on Jun 19, 2015, 12:46:30
Hey Dale,

Thanks for the note, and the complements.

I read your line about "re-kickstarted" your project, and I got all excited thinking that you had tracked down one of the kickstart kits for the v50.  Looks like that is not the case, but no matter.   Read through the pages and posts I had missed since I had last visited your thread.  Glad to see that it is all coming together!  Have you started the engine yet?

I have a guy in SF who will have spares of the pieces you lost.  Send me a non-thread message if you would like his contact info.

Can't wait to hear that it is on the road.

Cheers.
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Jun 22, 2015, 07:41:30
Thanks! P.M'd you.
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Jun 22, 2015, 07:44:31
Regulator /Rectifier / Main Harness Bracket

Started working on the wiring.

BEFORE:

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/rectifier_regulator_00_zpsnu4tfgtq.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/rectifier_regulator_01_zps9whpu400.jpg)

AFTER:

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/rectifier_regulator_02_zpsauo27ren.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/rectifier_regulator_03_zpsziff2m0n.jpg)
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: lc4dakar on Jun 22, 2015, 18:50:40
Be sure to get the right bolts and rubber grommets in the right places for the diode board.  It can fry all the wires from there to the starter if you get it wrong.
Don't ask how I know  :(
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Jun 25, 2015, 09:41:55
Ha ha, ok. Thanks for the headsup. Think I got it properly insulated etc. All grommets in place where need to be.

Small updates. Nice big one to come soon.

Managed to track down the linkage parts I needed:

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/linkage_00_zps41lvhgbc.jpg)

So now these two can go together , and I can also do some gear selecting :-)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/linkage_01_zpsxoaskmoo.jpg)


Designed and mocked up an exhaust hanger bracket.

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Exhaust_Hanger_01_zpsbpzh4fpb.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Exhaust_Hanger_02_zpswnxtp96f.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Exhaust_Hanger_03_zps85o9kpk4.jpg)
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: jag767 on Jun 25, 2015, 10:03:02
This is really coming out great!
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: lc4dakar on Jun 25, 2015, 17:30:48
What are you using to plug the frame openings at the rear?  I have a couple of cut down black rubber stoppers on mine, but I can't get them to fit as smoothly as I'd like.
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Jun 30, 2015, 15:10:29
What are you using to plug the frame openings at the rear?  I have a couple of cut down black rubber stoppers on mine, but I can't get them to fit as smoothly as I'd like.

Standard plastic units you can find at any decent hardware store?

Thanks jag767.



SEAT AND COWL (Part 2)

Part 1 on Page 9 (March 2011)

This is where I was at: (Can't believe it was over 4 years ago!)



(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/DaleBest/Moto%20Guzzi%20V50II/DaleBest_seat_03.jpg)



Looking back at the design now, I feel like the top of the seat was too curved and a touch too high.

Did a redesign. (My tool set has changed since 2011 :-)



(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_and_Cowl_05_zpsjeh78pus.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_and_Cowl_01_zps8gzum6op.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_and_Cowl_02_zpspsuw11cb.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_and_Cowl_03_zpsbnuunqdy.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_and_Cowl_04_zpsd4cpe66g.jpg)


Rear light Housing 3D printed prototype (prior to CNC milling final piece)


(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/RearLight_02_zpsidkbj8jj.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/RearLight_01_zpsdhffzvri.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/RearLight_03_zpsfqa6oouy.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/RearLight_04_zps9pjauvwp.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/RearLight_10_zpsaxboa8ms.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/RearLight_09_zpsyfvvobgo.jpg)

Ive got a fair amount of 7075 T-6 for another project, but its pretty dense aluminium, and overkill for the light housing, so Im going to hold off cutting it for now.

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_and_Cowl_09_zpsaitdeptk.jpg)
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Jun 30, 2015, 15:46:10
The cowl will be covered in black leather


(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_and_Cowl_07_zpsflaq98cc.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_and_Cowl_08_zpsoyciyaa2.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_and_Cowl_10_zpsjmzrenqp.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_and_Cowl_11_zpszbz4oh05.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_Base_01_zpsxbmyztzf.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_Base_02_zpsxfafjfvb.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_Base_03_zpsvayvdwbe.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Wiring_Cowl_zpsx7mjwlxn.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_Base_04_zpsoz3xpqnc.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_Base_05_zps7mzw6qom.jpg)
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Jun 30, 2015, 15:51:17
Before:

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_and_Cowl_original_zpsrbjoyb9d.jpg)


New Profile:

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_and_Cowl_profile_zps0dzdisyj.jpg)
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Jun 30, 2015, 18:13:34
Painted the plastic silver to help visualize the final part in aluminium.

Will be reducing the inner radius of the light mount to compensate for the thickness of the leather, as I want it to fit flush on both surfaces.

Leather sample.

Padding next.

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Rear_Light_01_zpsgxr5sz5i.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Rear_Light_02_zpsiwpuuk3e.jpg)
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: jag767 on Jun 30, 2015, 18:29:21
Wow! Great work!
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Goosifer on Jun 30, 2015, 19:56:56
Great stuff, looking awesome!

I'm really interested to see what impact 3D printing has on the bike modding community.
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: dewjantim on Jun 30, 2015, 20:24:05
Damn Dale..... this sure has turned into a high tech job. Looking great too........
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Jul 04, 2015, 09:11:39
Thanks guys.


Great stuff, looking awesome!

I'm really interested to see what impact 3D printing has on the bike modding community.

Goosifer, I think its just another weapon you can put into your tool set. It definitely requires another skill set wrt to CAD and 3D modelling, and the technology is still in the development stage. So early adoption means putting up with a fair amount of imperfection if you're using hobbyist / semi pro tech (like I am).

As you can see I've had to do a some finishing due to warping:

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_01_zpsla6ulanm.jpg)

Damn Dale..... this sure has turned into a high tech job. Looking great too........

Here's some low tech for ya: :-)

SEAT PAD

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_Pad_04_zpsbrgryxzl.jpg)

Had some race seat hi density foam lying around. Doubled it up for the desired thickness.

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_Pad_00_zpsygez7spk.jpg)

Was originally going to make the seat pan out of aluminium plate, but I was thinking that a wooden base for the pan might be more comfortable? Could be way off here, but that was my gut feel.
Im not too concerned about weight. This is going to be a commuter.

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_Pad_01_zpsrp4ofbnm.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_Pad_02_zpszedxk4y9.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_Pad_05_zpshudkecnl.jpg)

Need to compensate for the thickness of the leather between the seat base and the padded section. There will be a fair amount of compression, and 2.5mm will not be the final gap distance, so will be working to roughly half that. This will affect things as there are two axis to take into account here with multiple angles, and I want everything to to flush once its all covered.

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_Pad_03_zpsz9qqd1xr.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_Pad_07_zpsnqxnj8rl.jpg)

Matching up lines.

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_Pad_09_zpscxyclkco.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_Pad_10_zpsxr1fwrmd.jpg)

Worked the right side, then made quick template to work from making sure everything is symmetrical.

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_Pad_08_zpsagnlq2x2.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_Pad_11_zpsinkcndeg.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_Pad_12_zpssfvpfbqg.jpg)
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: jpmobius on Jul 04, 2015, 13:01:30
Man, that is some spectacular work!  Your bike has to be one of the truly most difficult (awkward?) body styles to sync up with, and that tail section looks fantastic. I have a lot of respect for a craftsman that is willing to be dissatisfied with something he has put a great deal of time into and start fresh to get it right.  Absolutely love the attention to the functional and mechanical aspects as a starting point and taking that into the aesthetic you want.  That aluminum section is going to look gorgeous.  I have to say I really hated the round tail light at first but it has really grown on me.  Nice blend keeping the angular nature of the tank and merging to the perfectly round light. I did notice that the seat looks too narrow right where it meets the tank - seems like it would be pretty easy to match the hard and soft parts of the assembly with the shape of the tank at the front and blend straight back to what you have into the back.  Could just be the pics though - I know things often look a bit different walking around them and often you take pictures from angles that you never experience in life. (EDIT) Scratch that- backed up and took another look at the previous pics - looks great.  Hope you will arc the front of the padding to match the tank though!
The seat itself looks great too, but consider the edges where the foam becomes the Masonite if you haven't already.  Sometimes when you stretch the covering over the softer foam it will compress and reveal the edge of the hard base under it.  Makes a dreadful wear point too.  Maybe taper that edge down a bit and round it off where it matches up to the foam as a precaution.  Makes it look bad without the cover, but should be invisible when covered.  I also cover seats first with car headliner to help with this sort of thing.  It is thick enough to "inflate" little imperfections but super soft and will compress super thin, so it does a lot of smoothing without adding any puffiness.  I wrap it around all the edges and corners just like the cover will be.  Over time anything wrapped against a hard surface tends to wear, and even the tiniest bit of padding under it helps immensely. It does add a little thickness you have to compensate for if you want the end result perfectly flush with the bodywork, but you have to do that anyway with just the cover as you know.
Also hoping you will paint your new bodywork rather than cover it - I think the bodywork should not be diminished by a cover but amplified with new paint! My $.02 - I am sure it will be great either way!
Really great work!
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Jul 06, 2015, 08:58:20
Well that is high praise coming from you! Thank you!

As for width, its at 220 mm at the rear of the seat, and it feels pretty comfortable for me.

That aluminum section is going to look gorgeous.  I have to say I really hated the round tail light at first but it has really grown on me.  Nice blend keeping the angular nature of the tank and merging to the perfectly round light.

Yeah, I'm pretty excited about cutting it. Wanting to hold off until I have all the parts designed I want to CNC cut, but might just do it soon anyway. :-)
I guess the round light was just something I always thought I would use. If I had to be totally objective, a rectangular light would probably have been a more synchronous choice.

Hope you will arc the front of the padding to match the tank though!

Not quite following you? You mean give the top part of the padding, as it moves toward the tank, a subtle convex curve?
Yeah, (if that's what you're saying) that kind of detail would certainly change things from good to great.

Sometimes when you stretch the covering over the softer foam it will compress and reveal the edge of the hard base under it.  Makes a dreadful wear point too.

Great advice! Thank you! I totally get what you're saying. DONE! :-)

I also cover seats first with car headliner to help with this sort of thing.

Right! Yeah I remember my dad doing stuff like that. I had forgotten about this. Again - Awesome! Great advice! On my shopping list.

Also hoping you will paint your new bodywork rather than cover it - I think the bodywork should not be diminished by a cover but amplified with new paint! My $.02 - I am sure it will be great either way!

Oh I hate you for that! :-P

Man had a look at it, and having paint on that shape will make it pop so nicely.
Having to buy more paint, and twist my buddy Mario's arm to paint it for me (he painted the tank, fender and side covers for me - about 3 year ago I think) would take a lot of time and effort.
It *would* look better. You're totally right. But I just don't think I'm gonna go down that route for the above reasons.
I'm also always going to think about that every time I look at it! Ha Ha.

Thanks for taking the time to give me some great feedback. Its hugely appreciated.
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: jpmobius on Jul 06, 2015, 12:51:44
Not quite following you? You mean give the top part of the padding, as it moves toward the tank, a subtle convex curve?
Yeah, (if that's what you're saying) that kind of detail would certainly change things from good to great.
Right, in the one shot it looks like the tank has a body line across the back that the seat looks like it should match up to.
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Jul 07, 2015, 16:02:43
Right, in the one shot it looks like the tank has a body line across the back that the seat looks like it should match up to.

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Seat_Pad_14_zps1xm1j1vu.jpg)

You talking about this section? Tried to shoot it as accurately as possible.
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: jpmobius on Jul 07, 2015, 21:09:04
Actually no.  See pic.  I realize this is the older version, but the new one looks flat here too, though the foam is a lot higher.  I would however, want that horizontal bodyline on the side of the tank (your last pic) to align very accurately with those on your seat, otherwise it will look like your seat in not bolted on right.  Something else occurred to me too which is the very straight body lines of the seat between the tank and cowl.  The body lines on the tank and your cowl would seem perfectly straight when viewed from the correct vantage point, but they are actually the intersection of very gently arced panels which are themselves not flat but just barely compound curves.  If you make the straight sides of your seat "bow" very slightly I think you will get a much more matching look to the factory Guzzi tank.  Harder to do than it might seem at first.  Lots of very subtle things to match.  For example, the tank has some pretty hard creased edges making its shape, but actually those edges have a small but distinct radius.  Matching that with your new bodywork will go a long way toward making your parts look like they were OEM.  I know this may be splitting hairs, but you are putting so much into it I though I would mention it.
Again, I realize that things very often look different in real life, all I have is a static picture.  I know from my own work that when you are working on and looking at something every day, you get used to how it looks and sometimes fail to notice something.  Just trying to offer a "less contaminated" set of eyeballs!
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Jul 08, 2015, 07:03:20
Right, yeah the new seat certainly matches up WAY better than the old mock-up.
Gotcha on the top padding piece being convex to match the tank. That's what I thought you meant earlier - yeah :-) Man you're keeping me on my toes! I appreciate it! :-D "Fresh eyes" as they call it.

With the new seat, the curvature (convex shape) is only about 4-5 mm in the center, so its pretty subtle, and I'm thinking soft sponge will do it? With the leather covering compressing towards the outer edges (left and right) forming a convex curve? What do you suggest?


In other news: Got what is probably one of my final component purchases on this project: Some fresh rubber, fresh coils, correct ignition switch etc. Glad that at my age I still can get excited at opening a box. Ha ha.

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Rubber_Wiring_zpssziwmnsf.jpg)

Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: jpmobius on Jul 08, 2015, 13:25:52
You may be right on the cover.  My preference is generally to make the foam padding the exact shape I want in the end, but usually my cover is really stretchy vinyl so it only minimally changes the foam shape.  Plus, my seats also usually have a more amorphous shape that yours does so the cover tend to not distort the foam's shape very much.  You can always just test stretch some cover material over it as a simulation which might help steer you in the right direction.  Hey, when all your parts are prototypes, you are doomed to having to guess a lot about the results of the manufacture and assembly.  Factories just do another iteration to work out the unforeseeable bugs, but working independently, there is a limit to how many iterations you can do if you ever want to ride the thing!

When I was a kid, ordering anything was the worst torture possible - having to wait who knows how long for it to arrive.  Now it is the opposite.  I often forget or at least get sidetracked and when a box is delivered, it's like Christmas!
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Jul 18, 2015, 09:23:54
@jpmobius: Congrats on the BOTM! Joey and yourself put out two amazing machines!

K, not a big update, I've been really busy at work the last couple of weeks, but I'm trying not to loose too much momentum. If that happens, it will be another two years before I work on this thing again :P

I pinched the profile of the taillight rim to echo the lines of the tank more, and did a 12 mm segment - roughing, finishing and contour pass - of the piece in some MDF board. Hoping to get some alu next week. Also considered etching a MG logo into it.

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Taillight_02_zpsrfsr54qi.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Taillight_01_zpstug6klnr.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Taillight_05_zpsesc94rxr.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Taillight_03_zpsqnq1gqcz.jpg)

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Taillight_04_zpsutaedkt5.jpg)

Cleaned up the coil hangers and mounted it to the frame:

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/Coils_zpsxnqpevzn.jpg)

Now I need to motivate myself to start the wiring!
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: 50gary on Jul 18, 2015, 10:31:26
Amazing tools.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: crazypj on Jul 18, 2015, 17:04:25
OMG
I'm really envious of someone with that equipment plus the skills to use it  8)
That seat/ tail light is fantastic, particularly when you get the M-G etched in  :o
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: J-Man on Jul 18, 2015, 19:44:07
+1
Etched will be a nice little detail.
I'm looking forward to the finished bike.... As are I'm sure.
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: v-pilot on Dec 26, 2015, 02:30:11
Hi Dale, glad to see you picked it up again.  I haven't been here in a while as my favorite builds all seem to have stalled.  The new tail section looks great BTW.  Don't lose the momentum!
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Dec 28, 2015, 09:05:45
Thanks everyone for the input.

OMG
I'm really envious of someone with that equipment plus the skills to use it  8)
That seat/ tail light is fantastic, particularly when you get the M-G etched in  :o

I've been at it for over a year now with this machine, and I'm still learning every day. Its been a steep (and expensive - read "breaking" stuff) learning curve. Its really exciting and challenging though, and I'm loving what I'm starting to be able to do with it!


+1
Etched will be a nice little detail.
I'm looking forward to the finished bike.... As are I'm sure.

Yeah, definitely!


Hi Dale, glad to see you picked it up again.  I haven't been here in a while as my favorite builds all seem to have stalled.  The new tail section looks great BTW.  Don't lose the momentum!

Yeah, long time! Thanks for the nudge. Havent been on the forum for a long time, and truthfully, haven't worked on the Moto Guzzi for some time either.

I did have a light bulb moment recently though, and that was returning the swing-arm to a natural aluminum color as opposed to the black.
I'm really nor sure why I chose to make it black when I started out with with project. The black breaks the visual continuity from the motor through to the wheel hub.

Look at the difference:

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/28Dec2015_A_zpskd06tym7.jpg)


.... and then ... looking at it with fresh eyes, decided I didn't like the seat I made a couple of months back anymore...!!


(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/28Dec2015_B_zpsnrk1jdlf.jpg)

This teardrop shape has a real deco feel to me. I think I'm going to redesign the seat to fit into this kind of silhouette instead.
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: jpmobius on Dec 28, 2015, 11:12:58
Wow, that teardrop shape would be pretty cool!  But I'm thinking that would propagate yet another seat/tail section redesign.  Lots of work, but I can get behind it - some of the most excellent projects I've ever seen are a consequence of the builders refusal to say "I'm not changing it, I've got too much time in it already".  Better to change it until you are happy with it. 
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Jan 01, 2016, 05:19:05
Thanks jpmobius - so many builds have come in and gone out of my little workshop since starting this project in late 2010. I guess the main reason is that it's "my" motorcycle. And I've not compromised on it as I've gone along. When I don't feel like working on it I dont. There's no rush.

And to everyone who's emailed me over the years, commented and watched this thread:

Happy New Year!
Here's to 2016 - the year it all happened!
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: fingerprince on Jan 03, 2016, 18:38:57
Hi Dale,
I'm a big fan of your work. Just a thought. Wired wheels would look amazing on your project. Maybe the Guzzi Nevada wheels will match, if you put the rear brake disc on the left side.If you fancy the thought, maybe I can be of any help. I'm building a cafe racer from a '95 V75 PA TN.

Keep up the good work,

cheers
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: papercutout on Jan 15, 2016, 16:19:37
I've only just stumbled across this and joined the forum to say you've done a fantastic job! I can't wait to see what you do with the rear seat... Although it's bloody well taking you forever! I found your thread because I'm looking at a V50 II atm, and am searching for problems with them, mods, and what to do. I sincerely hope it's in better condition than yours was!


Fingerprince is right. Wire wheels in straight matt black look amazing, but they're probably a pain to change on something with shaft drive - still, you have lots of new toys!
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Dale on Feb 06, 2016, 17:00:30
Hi Dale,
I'm a big fan of your work. Just a thought. Wired wheels would look amazing on your project. Maybe the Guzzi Nevada wheels will match, if you put the rear brake disc on the left side.If you fancy the thought, maybe I can be of any help. I'm building a cafe racer from a '95 V75 PA TN.

Keep up the good work,

cheers

Hi there, welcome to the forums. Thanks for the interest and the ideas. Yes I agree, wired wheels would look great. They always do.

I have to say though, I really love these high profile skinny cast wheels. They certainly give the motorcycle a definitive late 70's look. Going wire would give the machine an earlier look IMO. I love the 70's era of design, and the wheels are one of the features of this motorcycle that I really love :-)


I've only just stumbled across this and joined the forum to say you've done a fantastic job! I can't wait to see what you do with the rear seat... Although it's bloody well taking you forever! I found your thread because I'm looking at a V50 II atm, and am searching for problems with them, mods, and what to do. I sincerely hope it's in better condition than yours was!

Fingerprince is right. Wire wheels in straight matt black look amazing, but they're probably a pain to change on something with shaft drive - still, you have lots of new toys!

Yup, this project has really been dragging. Im cool with it though. Its my "inbetween building other bikes project" :-D Every now and again I get all inspired to work on it. And then it gets packed away again. Ive gone slowly with this little bike, as Ive really tried to not compromise on it along the way. Its one of my projects that I intent to never sell. So its kinda special to me. The result has been, well, yes 6 or so years :-/. Ok, wait, you're right. This has taken way too long ! Ha ha.
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: SeekingZero on Feb 07, 2016, 00:00:11
Hot damn! That seat is sweet! I envy your maker skills and tools. Completely jelly, can't wait to see the finished product!
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: BadPower on May 31, 2016, 23:49:00
Thanks everyone for the input.

I've been at it for over a year now with this machine, and I'm still learning every day. Its been a steep (and expensive - read "breaking" stuff) learning curve. Its really exciting and challenging though, and I'm loving what I'm starting to be able to do with it!


Yeah, definitely!


Yeah, long time! Thanks for the nudge. Havent been on the forum for a long time, and truthfully, haven't worked on the Moto Guzzi for some time either.

I did have a light bulb moment recently though, and that was returning the swing-arm to a natural aluminum color as opposed to the black.
I'm really nor sure why I chose to make it black when I started out with with project. The black breaks the visual continuity from the motor through to the wheel hub.

Look at the difference:

(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/28Dec2015_A_zpskd06tym7.jpg)


.... and then ... looking at it with fresh eyes, decided I didn't like the seat I made a couple of months back anymore...!!


(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag135/DaleBestDaleBest/28Dec2015_B_zpsnrk1jdlf.jpg)

This teardrop shape has a real deco feel to me. I think I'm going to redesign the seat to fit into this kind of silhouette instead.

Hi Dale, another message of high praise here, your attention on this project is fantastic.

That teardrop shape does look good, would wonder if there is enough length in it for a tall person though?  Just to put it out there, another thought (not originally mine) is copying the back of the tank for the cowl.  Something like attached.

Have to say I agree with the original wheel option, too.  They are part of he bones of that bike and suit it, to my eye.  Also, have to agree with the swing-arm decision!

Hope the motivation stays high,

Malcolm
Title: Re: 1979 Moto Guzzi V50 II Cafe
Post by: Perter on Jun 01, 2016, 01:05:08
I just stumbled over this post and got amazed about the details and talented work you have put in this Guzzi.

I own a goose too and don't like the standard tank which is almost like yours. But the way you use the standard "teardrop tank" in your design is outstanding.

Being so talented and putting so much work into the bike: Remember these bikes are made to be on the road, not the lift... and they are even more enjoyable there  8)