DO THE TON

Blood Sweat Tears and Grease => Projects => Cafe Racers => Topic started by: neevo on Nov 26, 2011, 06:01:49

Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 26, 2011, 06:01:49
It all started with a random picture find on google images... Spiderman's to be precise (Bonita Applebum). Never before had I seen such a beautiful bike, classic roots, retro looks with a stunning mix of customisation. Unfortunately this started an infatuation which not only consumed a large part of my life but also my bandwidth at home.

I had no intentions of buying a bike and having a go myself, but i was watching some bikes on eBay (just to see what they went for) and fell in love with a dirt cheap wreck. 9 agonising days later and $411 AUD out of pocket I was the proud owner of this little beauty:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/1d0a116e.jpg)

Little did I realise how far away it actually was. I am in Sydney and the bike was in Mildura... a mere 1020 km's away. Oh well, the heart wants what the heart wants, and it was an adventure :). 1020km's of endless straight roads and fields:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/b4dc38e0.jpg)

Saturday I filled the car with fuel and headed out on the 22hr round trip to pick up my newly acquired bike: a 1976 Honda 400F (Four).

Here she is back at home:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/ad1a9af4.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/a5dcfcad.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/c67e0a69.jpg)

First up was to give it a good clean, crack out a couple of cans of degreaser and the trusty Karcher and hit it hard. It scrubbed up well and cleaned off the caked on crud and crap:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/24c3e3fe.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/d65e2178.jpg)

Had a bit of a whoopsie moment rolling the bike back in to the garage (I had undone the real axel bolt) when the rear wheel fell off!!! Oh man these bikes are heavy, struggled to get the wheel back on.

Was planning on running the bike before I stripped it down but still haven't got some carbs yet, that can wait. Time to strip it down, first off came the loom:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/17cf3873.jpg)

Made sure to label all the loom well, as I have no idea where this stull should plug in:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/a7170615.jpg)

With the bike nice and light... or should I say slightly lighter, I rigged up a way to get the bike off the ground so I could strip the swingarm off:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0faeaa28.jpg)

The plank of wood wasn't really doing the job. so I got some steel reinforcement sticks, covered it in hose and used that instead:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/db89dc28.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/50d1283e.jpg)

Got into stripping the bike well and truely. Fork bottoms were a bit of a pain:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/c70fbe59.jpg)

Made sure all parts were clearly labeled before being stored:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/9bcde2eb.jpg)

Made a high tech front end holder upper:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/e3a70111.jpg)

The font caliper has a metal tube running into it, this has a thread which has broken off, can anyone advise the best way of getting this out?

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/78ae3086.jpg)

On removal of the front sprocket cover I found a few of these worrying items of metal:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/fcea30f7.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/91787c81.jpg)

I suspect it may be a broken chain link caught up in the gunk, anyone else got any thoughts? Here it is on a chain:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/d5d1a9f7.jpg)

I was going to leave it there, but got the grinder out to start trimming some unwanted tabs. First up the passenger peg mounts, then some of the brackets where the airbox was:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/86548395.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/dc7e381d.jpg)

Thats it for day one. More grinding tomorrow.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: bikeboy on Nov 26, 2011, 06:08:46
Good score neevo. saw that too, but I'd be coming up from Geelong. Not quite as far  ;)

There's a few aussie 400fs on the go at the moment, so have a look around. You're not alone.

cheers
ian
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Ryanh on Nov 26, 2011, 06:30:32
Looks good mate I'll be watching this space, Aussie Aussie Aussie oi oi oi haha
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 26, 2011, 06:40:25
Should probably take the time to say I am a Pom down under. So any amazing engineering, bike building work is because I am a Brit.

Anything I bugger up... I will claim to be a true blue Aussie ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: bikeboy on Nov 26, 2011, 06:42:04
Just a little observation, but as well as a busted shock, there seems to be a bend in that rear sub-frame rail?

ian
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 26, 2011, 06:52:38
Just a little observation, but as well as a busted shock, there seems to be a bend in that rear sub-frame rail?

ian

Yep and yep. I did know about it before I bought it. Shock is easy, was going to buy new ones.

Frame I need some pointers with. There are 2 damaged sections, the one you pointed out, which has tweaked the back end, plus the section where the side stand is. It has taken a hit by a forklift and on pulling it back has crushed the frame and peeled open when pulling it back.

Luckily it's on straight sections for both. I was going to buy some same dimension tube to replace the sections along with tube that fits inside the frame tube, so that I can brace the joint when I weld it.

What do people think?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Nov 26, 2011, 07:52:51
WELCOME! 400F's are a great little bike, you'll have some fun! Bugger about the forklift damage... I think you did good, but have your work cut out for you so I'm tagging along out of "Morbid Curiosity" ;)
Spend a few hours/ days looking for sources for spares. There be "land pirates" out there who think parts are made of gold... especially those carbies. But research will pay off and help you spend your bike funds wisely.
 You can try to remove the broken threads from the caliper, but you may want to start looking for a replacement... or at a very minimum a rebuild kit.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Ryanh on Nov 26, 2011, 07:57:08
Should probably take the time to say I am a Pom down under. So any amazing engineering, bike building work is because I am a Brit.

Anything I bugger up... I will claim to be a true blue Aussie ;)

It doesnt matter me where you originate, your building a bike on Australian soil that has to conform to our strict rules and regulations, for that reason I consider you an Aussie
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 26, 2011, 07:59:10
It doesnt matter me where you originate, your building a bike on Australian soil that has to conform to our strict rules and regulations, for that reason I consider you an Aussie

Fair dinkum!
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 26, 2011, 08:01:20
You can try to remove the broken threads from the caliper, but you may want to start looking for a replacement... or at a very minimum a rebuild kit.

So I assume that metal pipe is stock? And I should be able to back it out?

Will give it a go. Worst case I get a replacement.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Nov 26, 2011, 08:04:45
So I assume that metal pipe is stock? And I should be able to back it out?

Will give it a go. Worst case I get a replacement.
My Lil CB350F, the forerunner to your 400 had a steel line that attached to the front caliper so good possibility... there are tons of parts sources who have factory micro-fishe pages you can look at to check what was OEM.
 
*EDIT*
Yep, #14 on the schematic...
http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/1975-honda-cb400f-front-brake-caliper-disc/o/m9225sch401287 (http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/1975-honda-cb400f-front-brake-caliper-disc/o/m9225sch401287)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: bikeboy on Nov 26, 2011, 18:10:02
Oh yeah. Let me know if you could use a parts fiche and manual (both PDF formats)  ;D PM me your email if you like.

Sorry, should have offered that up sooner. David Silver Spares (back home  ;) ) have good stock for these if you need to go that route? I just picked up a replica exhaust and some engine parts. Delivered in 3 days! I've had stuff come from Perth take a week.

hang in there.

cheers
ian
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 26, 2011, 21:04:22
bikeboy, PM sent. That would be awesome thanks! Got a Haynes manual coming from eBay, but another version would be a huge help.

Got the grinder out in force today to trim a bit of fat:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/243bd531.jpg)

Going for a clean look where the airbox was, all the electrics and battery are going to be relocated under the rear seat cowl.

Certainly cleans up the frame, although I did realise a grinder - guard + fingers = ouch! A couple of times too.

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/c3afb695.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/b1b77ee9.jpg)

Going to cut of the damaged frame rails soon and have a question about the rear uprights. My right hand side seems to have a kink in it. Is this how it should be or has it taken a whack too?

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/e155126f.jpg)

Also can someone comment on my plan to fix the damaged frame? Smaller tube inside main tube to brace joint whilst welding.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 27, 2011, 00:38:02
More work. Bike had the rear rim damaged by the forklift too, so the easy way to release the hub was deployed:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/02ba6831.jpg)

Getting the brake plate off was a total bitch, turns out the arm was fused to the plate with the brakes on slightly. A fist full of muscle, some WD40 and she was free. Need to polish the arm to make sure it works well in future:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/d545a5ed.jpg)

The hubs are going to get blasted and polished.

Started on the front hub too, took a while but managed to get the bearings out. Not too bad in the end, but replacing them all anyway, anyone got bearing numbers so I can go to my local bearing shop?

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/1590feae.jpg)

Lastly a bit of a tidy up and grabbed the forks to put on the bench. Looks like they have taken a whack as they are bent from the lower triple clamp, is this something to worry about? I know the travel is not affected:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/137cd8b0.jpg)

Running out of free things now, need to wait for some more cash and Christmas (Santa is bringing a impact wrench, compressor, sandblaster and polisher :))).
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 27, 2011, 04:00:00
Had a crack at fixing the front caliper, turns out the metal tube thread and bleed nipple are well and truly stuck! Snapped an easy out trying to back it out. Smashed out the pads and turns out the piston is screwed too.

Anyone got a front caliper for a '76 400F they want to sell?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: bikeboy on Nov 27, 2011, 05:23:41
bikeboy, PM sent. That would be awesome thanks! Got a Haynes manual coming from eBay, but another version would be a huge help.

Also can someone comment on my plan to fix the damaged frame? Smaller tube inside main tube to brace joint whilst welding.

no probs. email sent.

That 'kink' on the back-right looks the same as my frame, so I think you're good there.

While I've braced plenty of frames, I've never cut and shut a section, so I'b be reluctant to offer advice there, but I know plenty of others have used a system of a smaller plug inside the new piece to locate and secure it. Should be some pics somewhere?

Those forks will need to be either fixed or replaced. You may be able to have them rolled flat, or keep an eye out for another set. Either way, they're no good like that.

Toys for christmas is always good. I'm sure you'll get good use out of 'em.

cheers
ian
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 27, 2011, 06:22:35
Cheers Ian. Will look into fixing the tubes, never heard of rolling them to fix bends, might get my google on tonight.

Had a crack at mocking up a bump stop:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0a571093.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/635f49ae.jpg)

Stripped to loom down to see if any of the electrical bits would fit:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/35666f87.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/e2bf86a9.jpg)

Thinking of boxing in the rear frame rails so that I can run the cables, what do people generally do?

Definitely going to have to get one of those fancy Li batteries as there isn't much room in the bump stop and I want to keep the electric leg.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 27, 2011, 06:42:30
Those forks will need to be either fixed or replaced. You may be able to have them rolled flat, or keep an eye out for another set.

Got a couple of names already, looks like only $40 odd a leg too :)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: hillsy on Nov 27, 2011, 09:18:23
You can find bearing numbers over here:


http://www.bikebearingshop.co.uk/C5.htm



Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 27, 2011, 15:26:36
You can find bearing numbers over here:


http://www.bikebearingshop.co.uk/C5.htm

Legend! What about tapered bearings for the head stem? Or do I need to buy a kit for that?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: bikeboy on Nov 27, 2011, 16:44:06
Legend! What about tapered bearings for the head stem? Or do I need to buy a kit for that?

AllBalls do a kit, but I don't have the part number off-hand. Should be easy to find.

ian
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 28, 2011, 06:59:34
Question about the wheel bearings. Kits on eBay have seals although I didn't pull any out. Is this extra protection and do you sacrifice bearing width to accommodate them?

That website listing bearings didn't list seals. Have seals on my enduro bike but assume those bearings take much more of a hammering vs a fine weather road bike.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: hillsy on Nov 28, 2011, 08:41:39
Go with sealed bearings. It's "new" technology and they'll outlast your bike.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 28, 2011, 15:20:10
Go with sealed bearings. It's "new" technology and they'll outlast your bike.

Planned to anyway. My bearing place has a good selection of Nachi etc at great pricing. Pop the lip and pack a bit more high quality grease in there and they last ages.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 01, 2011, 03:37:21
Tore into the forks the last couple of nights, could not for the life of me get the bottom 6mm hex head bolt out :(

In the end managed to persuade the missus to let me have a go on my christmas present early, only if I promised to use it this one time, then put it away. Yellow thing in the front:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/4b0c9fea.jpg)

Wow these things are good. 1 leg bearly sniffed resistance, the other took a fair hammering but gave up in the end.

Now need to get my fork legs rolled as they are slightly bent at the lower triple clamp.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MotorbikeBruno on Dec 01, 2011, 13:05:21
Nice man!  Gotta love an early X-mas present for sure!  (is it wrapped back up yet?  :D) 
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 01, 2011, 17:47:33
Nice man!  Gotta love an early X-mas present for sure!  (is it wrapped back up yet?  :D)

Yep :(
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 02, 2011, 06:00:56
More to report from this evenings endeavors. This bike was always going to have knee cut outs, I love the look but didn't have the budget to buy one of Benjie's tanks.

Why should I when I got a perfectly good tank with the bike? It needed a clean out as I could hear crap rattling around in it, well one more reason to get the grinder out.

Here's the pieces:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/cd159108.jpg)

Cut the tank back to the frame on the rear with sweeping lines out about half way:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/17bde4ea.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0ae33f69.jpg)

Struggled to visualize what the end result would look like so after some extra trimming I mocked it up with some paper:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/6105c20c.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/d28f2ecd.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/3d9b0f6c.jpg)

When I was looking at it I quite liked the contours of the bottom following the tunnel, but not too sure now I am looking at the pictures. Easy fix either way, can fab up an overhang when I weld in a new piece if required.

1 issue I didn't think about, I have cut out the drain for the petcock. Not the end of the world as I do prefer the look, what options do I have for fuel? I was thinking of running 2 copper lines from the front of the tank, flush with the bottom of the tank, 1 with a reserve pipe, 1 without and a remote tap near the rear of the tank for each. What's peoples thoughts?

Here's some pics:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/28fd7939.jpg)

The old tap placement:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0fb7bfe9.jpg)

Also I have a air tool coming that accepts sandpaper and grinder bits. What's the best attachment for tidying up the sharp edges on the tank?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: beachcomber on Dec 02, 2011, 06:25:18
More to report from this evenings endeavors. This bike was always going to have knee cut outs, I love the look but didn't have the budget to buy one of Benjie's tanks.

Why should I when I got a perfectly good tank with the bike? It needed a clean out as I could hear crap rattling around in it, well one more reason to get the grinder out.

Here's the pieces:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/cd159108.jpg)

Cut the tank back to the frame on the rear with sweeping lines out about half way:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/17bde4ea.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0ae33f69.jpg)

Struggled to visualize what the end result would look like so after some extra trimming I mocked it up with some paper:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/6105c20c.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/d28f2ecd.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/3d9b0f6c.jpg)

When I was looking at it I quite liked the contours of the bottom following the tunnel, but not too sure now I am looking at the pictures. Easy fix either way, can fab up an overhang when I weld in a new piece if required.

1 issue I didn't think about, I have cut out the drain for the petcock. Not the end of the world as I do prefer the look, what options do I have for fuel? I was thinking of running 2 copper lines from the front of the tank, flush with the bottom of the tank, 1 with a reserve pipe, 1 without and a remote tap near the rear of the tank for each. What's peoples thoughts?

Here's some pics:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/28fd7939.jpg)

The old tap placement:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0fb7bfe9.jpg)

Also I have a air tool coming that accepts sandpaper and grinder bits. What's the best attachment for tidying up the sharp edges on the tank?

Following this one neevo as that was the only bike I ever bought new in my life !

Sweet machine and well ahead of it's time. When I got the bug again, I realised that my increasing bulk in the intervening years would not be fair on the little chap - so with 7000 miles on the clock I passed it on to a friend and went for bigger things [ capacity wise ].

A couple of things from reading your thread through - the "kink" in the rear fork tube IS meant to be there ! Personally I use a linishing disc for thin "tin".

I too have had to go down the DIY route with the tank for my Yamaha TR1. Not because of cost [ well an alloy one WAS out of the question at £500 ! ], but lack af a suitable alternate.

Pacomotors in the US has made one using a Duke [ ?? ] outer shell, but I was looking for an AJS 7R 6 gallon style - the so called "TT" tank.

The tunnel on the stock Yam is HUGE, so I decided to make an outer shell only as a dummy to cover the stock tank. I'm also building 3 replicas for friends, so we needed to be able to duplicate the tank easilly.

I went down exactly the same route as you with the paper / card plant ons to guage the effect. Yours looks the biz BTW. One thing I found helpful was to make the card plant ons the same colour as the tank - gives you a better impression of the finished article.

That's my task for the next few days - fettling the tank shape, before final surfacing ready for the moulds to be taken.

Keep the pix coming, this will be one sweet machine.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 02, 2011, 06:34:09
Thanks beachcomber! Good to know about the kink in the rear frame support. Did some mockups and worked out its a 7 degree bend, just seeing if anyone here in Sydney can bend me a bit of 1" 16g to replace that section. At the same time seeing if they can do the rear hoop.

Good idea re the colored paper, might pop out and get some black stiff card on the weekend so I can mock it up properly and also create some templates.

Any idea what gauge steel the tank uses?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: beachcomber on Dec 02, 2011, 07:04:57
The tanks vary in material thickness - personally I'd go for a gauge up on the stocker so the implant keeps the shape better.

Also - re: cutting and splicing damaged tubes. Been doing that for YEARS with our racing replica Cobras ! Make a good fitting spigot to go inside the the tube after you've cut the bad bit out and simply splice in a new piece of tube. More work afterwards in fettling but simple, effective and safe. Of course if you can get someone to bend the relevant pieces that's better. Maybe blackberry a damaged frame? [ front end ].

Can't wait to see progress on this little chap.

Before and nearly after on my TR1 tank ! Still work to do - remove material at bottom edgs of tank [ too deep at the moment ] and radius off the edges on the top of the tank to the rear. A bit of surfacing - primer / filler - and then final prep for moulds to be taken. I'm fitting a 2 1/2" brass Monza filler cap and a Manx style tank strap.

BTW - I did take my own advice and we fitted Blue plant ons before the first mock up!

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc472/manfredvonheyda/Picture056.jpg)

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc472/manfredvonheyda/Picture038.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 03, 2011, 22:42:33
Sooooooo, my quest for carbs is a bit off track at the moment and without a kickstarter doing a run test or checking compression was going to be tough. So I did the newbie thing and removed the motor from the bike:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/c627c44f.jpg)

Cardinal sin #2 I thought I would go a bit further:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/616023d4.jpg)

Issue #1, it looks like something has got caught in the cam guide, it has wedged itself in there and taken a strip out of the cam itself:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/c3090a58.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/cef31451.jpg)

Anyone got some thoughts on how and if I should get this fixed? It looks like it has taken enough material out that it's no longer cutting material out, and the cam has enough guide on the end to run on. Would like to fix properly if required though.

Went further and split the cases:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/b40b86be.jpg)

Crank bearings look good with a few tiny rub marks, is this something to worry about or not?

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/2b4b171f.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/ba619731.jpg)

Gearbox is immaculate:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/daa1f60a.jpg)

As is primary drive and chain:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0e5781c5.jpg)

Crank seems fine too, how do you tell if cam chain needs replacing, or should I just do it anyway with the sliders?

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/91849b7c.jpg)

Lastly the cases are absolutely filthy, thinking of giving these to a pro to clean up, any thoughts? What would they do to clean them up, what needs to be done afterwards (paint or leave stripped)?

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/6eef3694.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 04, 2011, 01:08:41
Thought I would have one last go at the bike before I cleaned up the garage. Cut off the side stand and centre stand brackets.

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/9d481b44.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/462c2ce2.jpg)

The side stand had split the frame rail, not sure why as the tube wasn't rotted out at all. I think it may have taken a whack with a forklift like the rear frame upright.

Cleaned up and ready to be welded back on. It's got a bit of a link in it too that will need to be hit out of it before its mounted:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/15db0c9a.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Kanticoy on Dec 04, 2011, 01:34:52
Honestly man, and I don't mean to be a downer, but the head and cam are toast.  They will never wear right after that amount of damage.  The crank bearings need replaced as well.  They are pretty worn out of spec.  I have a cam that you can have once I get it completely pulled that is stock from a spare motor in good shape if you pay the shipping from the US.  I would keep an eye out for a "new" head on Ebay.  The cam chain....replace it while you have it down that far.  Get a DID or a Tsubaki HD replacement and keep the peace of mind.  Pay special attention to the cam tensioner horseshoe and make sure it isn't worn and that it moves freely.  Also pull the cam tensioner bolt out of the front of the motor and replace it with a solid sized bolt and lock nut instead of the step down bolt that is factory.  They will break eventually, trust me.  I would replace the cam tensioner with one of these while it's apart if I were you with one of these.  They are bronze bushed and MUCH higher quality than the cast, seizure prone original:

http://www.phildentonengineering.com/product.asp?pid=490

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the head is going to be the worst of your problems, but they are obtainable and will guarantee you keep on running with no worries later.  It could have been an oil starvation issue to the head, so make sure all of the oil galleries are clean, clean the crap out of the oil pickup screen and tube in the sump, and rebuild your oil pump with new oil rings.  Get an oil seal kit and replace all of those while you're in there.  You're doing the right thing by doing a complete rebuild. You'll be much happier when you do all of this, I promise you. 

Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 04, 2011, 02:04:31
Thanks Kanticoy, definitely take that cam off you, very generous, thanks!

Will have more bike allowance in Jan if you don't mind waiting till then.

Planned on replacing the chain, sliders so good to hear that's the right move. Crank bearings are relatively cheap too so good to know I should pull them out too. Any tips on getting them out?

2 fell out but the rest are in there pretty tight.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: beachcomber on Dec 04, 2011, 06:37:00
So I did the newbie thing and removed the motor from the bike:

In the event - not neccessarily a newbie thing !!

IF I intend to pull a motor down in a new to me bike, I don't see any point in running it first. Had you run the motor and been tempted to rev it a little - who knows what additional damage may have been done?

I agree with Kanticoy - oil starvation looks a likely candidate for the cam issues.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Dec 04, 2011, 07:37:18
Bummer about the cam journal, but at least you found it before hand... and yes, I would start looking for a head as well as taking Kanticoy up on his generous offer for the cam.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 04, 2011, 15:16:37
Might look to see if I can get a custom journal made up for it, 2nd hand heads are pretty thin on the ground and not guaranteed issue free.

Kanticoy, definitely interested in that cam :)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: bikeboy on Dec 04, 2011, 18:08:18
2nd hand heads are pretty thin on the ground and not guaranteed issue free.

I've always wondered if the 500/550 heads would fit these bikes? I know you can swap the DOHC 750/900 heads with a little work, so maybe the SOHC form-factors are similar enough as well? Lots more 500/550 parts around.

ian
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Kanticoy on Dec 04, 2011, 18:26:41
Unfortunately no bikeboy. The profile on the 350f and 400f are totally different. The mating surfaces are completely different. A 350f head will work but its a bit of a downgrade because of the valve profile. I know they suck to find used heads, I've looked for them. Pretty much your option as it stands is to replace the head with another one, or machine out the cam journals to accept a needle bearing that fits over the cam and seats into the head. Sean and roc city did that with a cb360 head. Either way would fix it, just different avenues. I'll hold on to the cam for ya man.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 04, 2011, 20:30:54
I'll hold on to the cam for ya man.

Can't tell you how appreciative I am!

Looks like getting it fixed might be an option, spoke to someone this morning who does this sort of thing regularly. Looking at welding and regrinfing surface or installing a cam journal.

Fingers crossed its not too expensive!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Kanticoy on Dec 05, 2011, 13:09:43
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IAQ-p7BCGws/TmWKp5LEWBI/AAAAAAAADxA/JR0vYho00O0/s1600/20090916_fingers_crossed.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MotorbikeBruno on Dec 05, 2011, 15:18:08
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IAQ-p7BCGws/TmWKp5LEWBI/AAAAAAAADxA/JR0vYho00O0/s1600/20090916_fingers_crossed.jpg)

That just made my day Kanticoy hahahahahaha
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 07, 2011, 02:24:19
More done today. Went down to my local sheet metal supplier at lunch and bought some 1mm sheeting, a bargain I thought at only $15.

Finished work at 5 and thought I would get some grinder action happening, cut out some sections after working a template out of artboard (cardboard):

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/29217ae8.jpg)

Took a fair bit of finessing the tank and also the panels but in the end got them 90% there, just a bit more fine edge work to make them fit perfectly:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/5b6e14ae.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/2d2d16dc.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/29491e20.jpg)

Now I've got to learn how to weld!!!

I've got some fabrication work to do underneath too as the shape of the cut outs has meant the bottom of the new sections at the back don't join the tank, going to work some L shaped sections so that its fully braced and also double thickness at the back of the cutouts.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: beachcomber on Dec 07, 2011, 04:49:34
Tank's looking cool Neevo.

Word of advice from someone who's been there done that and had the fuel leaks.
Get a PRO to weld your tank ! Not the thing to learn on really. ;)

You've done all the creative part - no foul in letting someone else weld it !

And yes I DID weld a tank I'd built, finished it off, nice coat of paint - ooops 4 pin holes as soon as I put petrol in it - start all over. ::) Needless to say, I'm no loss to the World of welding.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 07, 2011, 05:41:52
No problem beachcomber, was looking at having some help with that one. Do I need an actual tank welder or do you mean someone that's good at welding?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Ryanh on Dec 07, 2011, 06:31:40
No problem beachcomber, was looking at having some help with that one. Do I need an actual tank welder or do you mean someone that's good at welding?

All welders are (or at least these days in aus they are) trained to a national standard in aus, they should all know how to weld your tank just find someone who can do a tig weld neatly, if they or their shop don't wish to weld tanks or flammables they should at least be able to refer you to one, at Least by getting a tradesman to weld it up you can guarantee it's function and of it leaks take it back no loss...

What's your location mate I'm studying welding at the moment and I know a few good tradesman!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: beachcomber on Dec 07, 2011, 07:13:52
Neevo,

any good welder will tackle the job. Just need as neat a weld as they can and then finish off by knocking the welds back to the surface and then finish off in normal way with filler.

A pro will pressure test the tank after - cheap way out is to seal appertures with tape and immerse in tank of water - then hope you don't see any air bubbles !

Just any good welder will do - don't go to a "tank welding specialist" - as soon as you mention "specialist", the price doubles !
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 07, 2011, 08:57:32
I'm in Western Sydney Ryan.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Ryanh on Dec 07, 2011, 17:04:31
Sorry Neevo I'm of no assistance I'm all the way up in northern nsw, just find any welder but remember, you will always pay for what you get! (and if u don't there is fair trading haha)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 07, 2011, 17:44:56
No problem, thanks anyway Ryan.

There should be plenty around my way that can do it.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 07, 2011, 20:16:30
Took the oil restrictors out of the head and the seals fell apart. Where can I get replacements?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 07, 2011, 20:20:28
Actually are these the parts?

http://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/CB400F-SUPER-SPORT-FOUR/part_51274/
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: bikeboy on Dec 07, 2011, 21:48:51
Actually are these the parts?

http://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/CB400F-SUPER-SPORT-FOUR/part_51274/

Yeah, but you should be looking on ebay for a gasket set. You're going to need one anyway. Those are included (at least in the set I bought??)

Oh, I should qualify that first statement. The two feeders have different sized o-rings if I remember correctly??

cheers
ian
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Kanticoy on Dec 07, 2011, 23:44:07
Yeah man, better get this one to be safe.

http://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/CB400F-SUPER-SPORT-FOUR/part_28474/

It does have those gaskets.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 07, 2011, 23:59:50
Are you 2 my Cafe Racer spirit guides ;)

Always on hand for me, thanks gents.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Kanticoy on Dec 08, 2011, 00:47:39
Hahaha!  I'm just a sucker for a man that loves a 400f.  They are and have always been my favorite bike.  Takes a special fella to love them enough to bring them back from the dead.  And no problem Neevo.   

BTW, I love the tank.  Never saw one done up like that but I definitely dig it!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 08, 2011, 02:30:54
Hahaha!  I'm just a sucker for a man that loves a 400f.  They are and have always been my favorite bike.  Takes a special fella to love them enough to bring them back from the dead.  And no problem Neevo.   

BTW, I love the tank.  Never saw one done up like that but I definitely dig it!

I have to say its mostly from ignorance that I am where I am. The 400F was just the prettiest bike I saw, especially with the straight headers, and for my cafe project I needed a bike with a straight rear frame. Read a bit on the intermernets and worked out that the CB was a classic and lo and behold a train wreck of a 400F Super Sport turned up in my price bracket (bugger all). I liked the fact it was in an aweful state too, really makes the end result even more special.

Just jumping in head first with the build and not really thinking about how hard things are, just having a go. Loved the looks of the Benjie tanks with the big scoops but couldn't afford one, so needs must and I got the grinder out. I think its turning out really well. Waiting for the big roadblocks to rear their heads.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 08, 2011, 05:53:46
Slowly running out of things that don't cost money so I might be coming to a brick wall soon. Have decided I am going to get the frame fixed first (new rear frame section, repair tube where side stand goes and fit rear hoop). Will then get the bike rolling with new rims and spokes before getting the motor fixed and buttoned up.

Decided to cut more out if the bike this evening:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/dc6fe92b.jpg)

The rear was tweaked where the forklift had hit it. This is the base of the backbone:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/e7d20f46.jpg)

This is near the rear frame brace:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/a0bef1ee.jpg)

Struggled to bend the frame even after some blowtorch and hammer action, so I thought laterally and went and nicked the wife's car jack out of her car:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/4ce95131.jpg)

Overextended the frame and it bounced back pretty damn straight:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/d51d37f5.jpg)

Still need to tweak the section after the shock mount, but it's much better:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/1f64b124.jpg)

Might have to fashion some sort of jig to straighten out the sections round the shock mount.

Also had a crack at getting some paint stripper on the tank, unfortunately it made the black on top go all gloopy and barely touched the multiple layers underneath. I think I need some better stuff:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/bf586249.jpg)

Lastly wanted to keep the rear mudguard holder off the damaged frame section so I can weld it back on and know its the same as the other side:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0cc71432.jpg)

Need to get it in a vice to get it nice and straight again:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/978326d5.jpg)

Measured the tube that I cut off, looks about 2mm, anyone know what gauge this is? I have a local engineering co quoting the hoop and frame sections and would prefer like for like. Also anyone know what steel it is? Mild? Chrome moly?

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/c84437ee.jpg)

Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: beachcomber on Dec 08, 2011, 06:05:54
Great work Neevo - Wife's car jack - you just found a low tech Portapower !!!!!

Re: tank paint. As you are going to have to skim most of it with filler to get the shape back / you want and lose the inevitable rippling caused by welding [ however slight ], why not just hit it with a DA sander? I HATE using those  chemical jobies and by the time I've paid £10 for the gloop + all the aggro - I'd rather pay someone £15 to blast it all off !

I here what you're saying about finaces - exactly my position. Stuff only gets bought when I've released some cash from selling unwanted parts. Can be really frustrating and slow the project down [ I have THREE ] - but you'll get there and with greater satisfaction than some high roller who pulls a wad out of his pocket and says "build me a bike".

Now if only I hadn't sold my 400F .......................................
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 08, 2011, 06:17:35
Yeah it's hard to resist the temptation to throw cash at it, if it wasn't for the missus I would have all the parts in the shed right now.

It's good though because I look to reuse what came on the bike rather than essentially putting all new stuff on it, that's not the same. Your right too, it's easier to be proud of something you toiled over :)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 09, 2011, 22:50:15
Tackling the top triple today. When I bought the bike the lower handlebar clamps had the bolts snapped off in all 4 holes. Didn't matter as I was going to have the clamps milled off anyway.

Couldn't be bothered in getting someone to mill the clamps, I don't have a mill at home, so I thought I would crack out the trusty grinder again! Took ages to cut through the clamps but got them both off in the end:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/7101bbe9.jpg)

Kept shaving sections off to try and match the contours of the clamp:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/274bf605.jpg)

Finished off with a flapping wheel and brass brush drill attachment:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/43ea36d0.jpg)

Still got some old paint to get rid off, probably going to powder coat them black when I get the frame done anyway, but they do look quite nice brushed.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 10, 2011, 01:03:14
Enclosing underneath the rear frame so that my wiring is hidden and I think it tidies up the rear of the bike a bit.

First folded over a bit of card and made a template:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/8e14ada7.jpg)

Transferred this to my sheet of steel:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/833f4de1.jpg)

Curved the front slightly:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/a84fa0c8.jpg)

And voila!

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/97363c0d.jpg)

Questions:

1. Am I going to have clearance issues with the back wheel?
2. Do I need any drain holes, just in case some water gets in there?

Also what are people doing for mud flaps? I was going to reuse the original one but if there is an alternative I would love to hear it.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Big Rich on Dec 10, 2011, 03:07:13
Cool project Neevo - I just read all 7 pages.

I can't really help with the rear tire clearance, but I would recommend some holes. Water shouldn't be TOO much of a problem (but is it humid in your part of OZ?) but a little general airflow never really hurts anything.

And as far as the front & rear suspension/brakes: a lot of older Honda's used the same parts. Caliper, rotor, forks, etc, can be swapped around with a little research.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Ryanh on Dec 10, 2011, 09:42:07
I'd grind them semi circles off too while your at it to make them straight and smooth (http://img.tapatalk.com/0128ae04-61aa-dcb0.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 10, 2011, 20:25:39
Good point Ryan, I was on auto pilot trying not to take off too much but your right, it would look better with a continuous line at the back. Will have to check the holes underneath do not go to close to where I want to cut or it will end up too thin in material.

Made a template for my brake arm this morning, going to make it out of 6mm aluminium with some speed holes.

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/957edc24.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Kwality on Dec 10, 2011, 23:43:07
Great progress!  I saw that bike on eBay and thought it looked nearly too far gone, so big kudos to you for embarking on the project.  I'll be following with interest (and some trepidation - you've never had an angle grinder blade shatter on you, have you?  I have, and carry the scars.  Now all my power tools have the guards installed). 

Good luck!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: 1976cb356 on Dec 10, 2011, 23:57:17
Niiioce, I did the same thing with my frame. Its a cool feeling when it fits like a glove. The brake arm sounds cool. I need to find a nice place to buy aluminum for cheap. The tank is looking sweet too.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 11, 2011, 01:09:04
Great progress!  I saw that bike on eBay and thought it looked nearly too far gone, so big kudos to you for embarking on the project.  I'll be following with interest (and some trepidation - you've never had an angle grinder blade shatter on you, have you?  I have, and carry the scars.  Now all my power tools have the guards installed). 

Good luck!

You were right not to buy it! Damaged frame, no carbs and a buggered cam and journal. But, it was affordable for me and I would have struggled to get on the cafe ladder with any decent bike for less than a grand.

I actually like the fact it was soo bad, makes the end result even more satisfying.

Good reminder about the grinder, I will pop the guard back on tonight. I do always wear ear and eyes protection, the guard does make it a bit difficult to get into some of the spots, oh well, would prefer to keep my skin as it is.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 11, 2011, 01:10:43
Niiioce, I did the same thing with my frame. Its a cool feeling when it fits like a glove.

Got any pics? Keen to see others and how they have done it, particularly rear tyre clearance.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: 1976cb356 on Dec 11, 2011, 01:22:04
Got any pics? Keen to see others and how they have done it, particularly rear tyre clearance.
I dont think I have any pics back when I did it, I have the finished product. I think all I did was take crappy cell phone pics and then my cellphone stopped working (non memory card type). But mine clears, but I dont have the full rear loop, and my shocks in the back are pretty stiff. I guess that doesnt really help...if it means anything, I think it will be fine.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 11, 2011, 01:30:53
Any pics would be good, even of the bike now, trying to visualize what it's going to look like, but not many around with the rear section boxed in.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 11, 2011, 07:05:42
Someone help me out, how am I supposed to get these exhaust flanges off! I have removed the inner 1/2 sections but they still seem a fraction too small to clear the collar on the headers. What am I missing?

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/fb23227c.jpg)

The one on the end I thought I would force a bit with a hammer but I  not sure if that's the right direction:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/f741fbb6.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Ryanh on Dec 11, 2011, 07:47:41
I took mine off the other way, removed mufflers and they just slid off, I don't think they are supposed to come off that way?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: beachcomber on Dec 11, 2011, 08:37:36
Good point Ryan, I was on auto pilot trying not to take off too much but your right, it would look better with a continuous line at the back. Will have to check the holes underneath do not go to close to where I want to cut or it will end up too thin in material.

Made a template for my brake arm this morning, going to make it out of 6mm aluminium with some speed holes.

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/957edc24.jpg)

Here's a tip I used on one of my top yokes [ modified as yours ]. I too was a little concerned about the depth of the recess' underneath possibly affecting the strength. Not having access to alloy welding, I made up an alloy plate [ 1/8" ] and attached it with countersunk screws [ underneath ] and then just fettled the edges in to blend in with the yoke.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Nuno on Dec 11, 2011, 09:02:29
All welders are (or at least these days in aus they are) trained to a national standard in aus,

In Australia everybody is trained at a national standard for something.....it sounds good until you see what the actual national standard is....
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 11, 2011, 15:39:59
I took mine off the other way, removed mufflers and they just slid off, I don't think they are supposed to come off that way?

They must do, the other way all 4 headers converge into 1 and so they won't go that way.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: bikeboy on Dec 11, 2011, 17:30:20
They must do, the other way all 4 headers converge into 1 and so they won't go that way.

Looks to me like they were put on before the flanges were welded on? You may have to cut the pipes to remove them.

ian
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Kwality on Dec 11, 2011, 18:58:39
With the original header setup they just slip off the end.  You have an aftermarket system, so the setup may well be different. are the flanges welded on?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 11, 2011, 19:09:09
With the original header setup they just slip off the end.  You have an aftermarket system, so the setup may well be different. are the flanges welded on?

I can't see any noticeable welds, I will see if I can hit them off after a bit of heat.

Can anyone identify the headers, I thought they were stock  :-[
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: hillsy on Dec 11, 2011, 19:13:31
This is the stock system:
 
(http://honda400four.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/honda-1977-cb400f-blue.jpg)
 
Specific to the 400f ...... and I think they are the most beautiful part of the bike.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: hillsy on Dec 11, 2011, 19:37:51
Can anyone identify the headers, I thought they were stock  :-[

I'd need better pics to be sure, but they look like generic aftermarket 4-1 headers from the 70's that used to just slide into the collector. Hence you slide the stock collars over the collector ends, put the pipes in the collector and bolt them up.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 11, 2011, 23:56:36

I'd need better pics to be sure, but they look like generic aftermarket 4-1 headers from the 70's that used to just slide into the collector. Hence you slide the stock collars over the collector ends, put the pipes in the collector and bolt them up.

No problem. Have you heard of a removable collar on the end or is all the crud on these things making them super tight?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: hillsy on Dec 12, 2011, 00:01:09
The collars on the ends will either be welded or brazed on. You will more than likely ruin the pipes trying to remove them.
 
How are the joins at the collector? Are they slip in or welded up?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Ryanh on Dec 12, 2011, 01:36:46
Why are you taking them Off anyway?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 12, 2011, 02:11:38
Why are you taking them Off anyway?

The chrome trims are filthy, plus I am looking to have some dents taken out of the headers, and going to have them treated afterwards (chrome or something close).
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 12, 2011, 02:19:47
Tore into the master cylinder, god knows why, I just can't help myself. I think the reality of this build is that everything is going to be taken apart, cleaned right up or replaced/customised.

The master cylinder worked but the washer was rusted in there. Took a good thump with a drift through the other side to get it out. The surface looks fine inside but a rebuild kit is needed to put it back together. Nice and clean:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/2c2c5c11.jpg)

Went to my local truck fab place and bought some 6mm and a huge piece of 3mm aluminium:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/59e4294d.jpg)

Going to make a custom mud guard for the bike out of this instead of putting the plastic one back on, anyone got suggestions on what to do with it? Was going to powdercoat with the frame if it doesn't get too chopped with road litter.

The 6mm got turned into a brake arm:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/96537d8e.jpg)

Needs some fine tuning on one edge, plus it's marked up for drilling alternately large and small holes:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/73704988.jpg)

Eyeing up a few drill presses on eBay to do the job right, plus I can drill my brake disc with it too.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Kwality on Dec 12, 2011, 04:38:02
Neevo - David Silvers in the UK sell an aftermarket master cylinder, complete with lever, that looks very similar to the OEM version, for about the same price as a rebuild kit.  For your consideration.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Ianmallee on Dec 12, 2011, 04:43:03
Nice work...interested to see how the tank finishes. Planning to do the same with my tank. Not sure if I'll be cutting and welding it back up myself or to hammer it in.
Forget eBay on the drill press. Picked mine up from supercheap for $70 last week and think they're still on sale
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 12, 2011, 04:54:49
Forget eBay on the drill press. Picked mine up from supercheap for $70 last week and think they're still on sale

Really! Awesome!!!!!! Got some pics?

Edit: can't see them on the website, might have to pop in to check.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Ianmallee on Dec 12, 2011, 05:34:48
Sorry no pics. It's a green one. Check their latest catalogue. If you missed the sale it's only $90 anyways so for a new no name product does the job
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: beachcomber on Dec 12, 2011, 05:49:15
This is the stock system:
 
(http://honda400four.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/honda-1977-cb400f-blue.jpg)
 
Specific to the 400f ...... and I think they are the most beautiful part of the bike.

Re: the headers - the pic shown is FACTORY STOCK. The only new bike I ever bought was the twin of the one in the pic. And as stated, one of the iconic parts of the bike.

To Remove the collars......................the usual goodly spray of WD40 / similar then.
tap the collars AWAY from the flanges -ie down the pipe about 2".

There is a FLAT SPLIT RETAINING RING WHICH SITS ON THE FLANGE. This then sits inside the recess in the finned collar and holds everything in place.

If you've managed to beat the collar off, then the split ring is a gonner !!!!!

I'll get a picture posted before COP today.

Here it is ...............

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc472/manfredvonheyda/img038.jpg)

Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 12, 2011, 07:03:08
Neevo - David Silvers in the UK sell an aftermarket master cylinder, complete with lever, that looks very similar to the OEM version, for about the same price as a rebuild kit.  For your consideration.

Damn, that's annoying! That is veeeeery cheap for a whole assembly. Thrown a spanner in the works with that one. Thanks for the tip.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 12, 2011, 07:08:48
Beachcomber I have taken those bits out already. The issue appears to be a solid collar on the end of the pipes, not sure if it's fixed on there or if I can hit it off. Will see how I go, it's got me scratching my head though.

I thought it may have been a removal part, something like this:

http://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/CB400F-SUPER-SPORT-1976-USA/part_163014/
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: beachcomber on Dec 12, 2011, 07:25:20
Neevo, that's DEFINITELY how they come off.

I took the pipes off my 400F some years ago to give them a thorough clean up.Mine had only done 6,500 miles and was as new [ 20 years old ! ] and the collars came off easilly.
It's probably years of gunge that's stopping the collars from slipping off. The collar is NOT put on and then flange welded on the tube. If that were the case, there'd be no need for the split rings ???

Maybe a good root around with a wire brush on your drill ?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Kwality on Dec 12, 2011, 07:34:40
@Beachcomber - but what Neevo is dealing with isn't factory stock.  As you say - with the stock headers, the cast collars just slip back down; the split collars fall out and the header can be removed.  Then the cast collars will just slip off of the header.  Easy. 

What Neevo is dealing with isn't a stock setup - see back a page or two.  The picture of the stock setup was posted for comparison.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: beachcomber on Dec 12, 2011, 07:43:29
@Beachcomber - but what Neevo is dealing with isn't factory stock.  As you say - with the stock headers, the cast collars just slip back down; the split collars fall out and the header can be removed.  Then the cast collars will just slip off of the header.  Easy. 

What Neevo is dealing with isn't a stock setup - see back a page or two.  The picture of the stock setup was posted for comparison.

Ahhhh yes. RTFM....................!!!!!
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 13, 2011, 23:12:24
Used one of the templates on here to mark up my rotor for drilling. Got some A4 Avery stickers to print on so I could stick directly onto the rotor.

Major pain getting the size exactly right and had to overlay 2 but I think it's not too bad. Will be punching drilling guides then pilot holes followed by 2 size holes. Won't be chamfering but keen to know how people dress the disc afterwards. Here's the pics:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/f0b4d9f2.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/97453dc2.jpg)

Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: bikeboy on Dec 13, 2011, 23:20:24
Used one of the templates on here to mark up my rotor for drilling. Got some A4 Avery stickers to print on so I could stick directly onto the rotor.

Wow. that's a lot of holes. and these disks are THICK. You're in for a bit of a marathon my friend. For shits and giggles, you should weigh the rotor before and after with some reasonably accurate (gram) scales. I chamfered my holes to make it a bit easier on the pads, but they've now worn down past that anyway, so not sure if it did/does any good. New disks are punched I believe, and have the sharper edges anyway.

Have fun!

cheers
ian
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 13, 2011, 23:24:20
Wow. that's a lot of holes. and these disks are THICK. You're in for a bit of a marathon my friend.

Have fun!

Fark it ;)

Doing it for aesthetics anyway so might as well have it pretty, even if it takes effin ages :)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: GoingsMoto on Dec 13, 2011, 23:46:22
hey Neevo, if you are going to run a rectifier I would allow for some air to get to it. Since you are going to run that pan just something to think about before hand.  The build is looking good.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 14, 2011, 01:25:19
hey Neevo, if you are going to run a rectifier I would allow for some air to get to it. Since you are going to run that pan just something to think about before hand.  The build is looking good.

Good point. I will cut some discrete vents so some air flushes under the seat to the electrics under the rear seat bump.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 14, 2011, 01:34:55
Can you get a small version of this so I can put some proper vents in the under seat area:

(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ1IpfhKHq7YLD-MH-5FZU9bANsNWZny2sOqdsQ-fK1zd0eBeq5qg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: hillsy on Dec 14, 2011, 01:38:14
If you solid mount the reg/rec to the plate you have under the seat it will act as a heat sink and draw the heat away from it.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 14, 2011, 03:33:30
If you solid mount the reg/rec to the plate you have under the seat it will act as a heat sink and draw the heat away from it.

Good idea! I planned on some cross bracing in the seat bump anyway. I could attach it to that.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: jeff4uk on Dec 14, 2011, 04:37:00
Nice job so far man your going down the same road i did two years ago when i did my 400/4 F1
The brake master cylinder i got from david silvers is a really good repo and was the same price as the referb kit!!!!
carbs are a real lotory when buying say on ebay but are easy to bring up to scrach D.S do a good carb kit and well worth the money
for pic ref my one is called
from rat to cafe CB400/4
keep up the good work mate
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: jeff4uk on Dec 14, 2011, 04:47:25
sorry mate its CB400/4 uk build (rat to cafe the OTHER site!!!)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 17, 2011, 03:18:28
Picked up my latest eBay purchase today:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/004af80d.jpg)

Needed some fettling to get it running sweet but for only $50 I was chuffed to bits.

Plan was to use it to drill out my rotor and rear brake arm so I headed down to Bunnings and blew $90 on drill bits and lube.

Just starting:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/04c12521.jpg)

All done:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/fa2b7e26.jpg)

Nearly got all the way through with the one bit, the curls were coming off at an amazing rate.

All done:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/30cf0863.jpg)

What's the best way to finish the disc off?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Ryanh on Dec 17, 2011, 04:23:05
Emery paper
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 17, 2011, 05:14:14
Emery paper

Quick scuff?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Dec 17, 2011, 08:07:18
Use your new toy!
I chucked up a large (4") sanding disc into my Drill press and with the plywood on the work surface to protect it. The clamps not only held the plywood on but locted the rotor by coming right up to its edge. When I cranked down of the drill press handle the rotor spins slowly and it sanded it very evenly.
 
(http://inlinethumb22.webshots.com/8853/2029654620026369651S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2029654620026369651BkCIob)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 17, 2011, 17:12:24
Use your new toy!
I chucked up a large (4") sanding disc into my Drill press and with the plywood on the work surface to protect it. The clamps not only held the plywood on but locted the rotor by coming right up to its edge. When I cranked down of the drill press handle the rotor spins slowly and it sanded it very evenly.
 
(http://inlinethumb22.webshots.com/8853/2029654620026369651S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2029654620026369651BkCIob)

Genius!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: bikeboy on Dec 17, 2011, 18:17:54
Use your new toy!
I chucked up a large (4") sanding disc into my Drill press and with the plywood on the work surface to protect it. The clamps not only held the plywood on but locted the rotor by coming right up to its edge. When I cranked down of the drill press handle the rotor spins slowly and it sanded it very evenly.[/img]

Yes indeed. I used an ocky strap around the handles to pull down an even but gentle pressure on the pad. Works a treat.

These drill presses are very versatile things.

cheers
ian
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 17, 2011, 19:13:20
So strapped the trusty wire wheels to the drill to tidy up the disc faces. Turns out they are also brilliant for removing grime and also paint so I went to town on the disc:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/03c8c634.jpg)

Even drilled my brake arm, will be polished in the end:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/013a031e.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MotorbikeBruno on Dec 17, 2011, 19:55:28
Holy hell, that seemed to have done the trick!  What drill bit did you use that you only needed 1 of them....(I've never drilled rotors before) Looks great man.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 17, 2011, 20:14:12
Holy hell, that seemed to have done the trick!  What drill bit did you use that you only needed 1 of them....(I've never drilled rotors before) Looks great man.

4.5mm cobalt bit from my local hardware store. Went really slow (let the bit pull itself through with gentle pressure) and lots of lubricating oil (used 3/4 of a small bottle).

I thought these things were supposed to be hard but it went waaaaay to easy.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MotorbikeBruno on Dec 17, 2011, 20:28:11
You sure they weren't chinese rotors?  :o :P   Just kidding.  If I decide to go that route with another bike I'll keep that in mind.  My Kz550 had them drilled from the factory  :P !
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 19, 2011, 03:22:49
Christmas came early today :)

Went to a local tube bender and got my custom rear hoop, rear frame upright, replacement lower section, spare pipe and custom turned sleeves:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/5d4df80d.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/4fed773e.jpg)

Buggered up the hoop inserts (the stepped down section is too small) but some grinder work will fix that.

Cannot recommend the supplier enough, fast turn around, great communication and the whole lot was only $140 :)

Edit: pleased to say its all a perfect match/fit.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 19, 2011, 03:34:42
Also been looking at replacement shocks and like the look of CB900F ones. Anyone know if they will fit?

I am going to do a test fitting of parts soon to see if I need to raise the back a little, going for a forward lean look.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: bikeboy on Dec 19, 2011, 04:39:24
Also been looking at replacement shocks and like the look of CB900F ones. Anyone know if they will fit?

mounts will fit. 900 shocks are 365mm long. Any help?

cheers
ian
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 19, 2011, 04:47:10
mounts will fit. 900 shocks are 365mm long. Any help?

Is that the whole shock body? If so exactly the same as the stock 400 shocks.

Not going to help with raising the rear but sounds like a straight swap.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: bikeboy on Dec 19, 2011, 05:03:00
Is that the whole shock body? If so exactly the same as the stock 400 shocks.

Not going to help with raising the rear but sounds like a straight swap.

that's centre-to-centre mounting holes :-)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 19, 2011, 05:04:17
that's centre-to-centre mounting holes :-)

30mm extension then :)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: eyhonda on Dec 19, 2011, 15:22:41
I once mounted 900f shocks to my 400f too.  The 900f shocks are longer but it was what I needed for that bike.   Also, the 900f sport shocks have a reservoir (piggyback) on the bottom and have a adjustments for either rebound or compression.   Did it awhile back so just going by slight memory.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 20, 2011, 05:16:44
Sounds good, might be the lift I am after aesthetics wise. A lot less drastic than cutting the fork tubes too.

Test fit my rear frame section this evening along with the rear hoop. Fits really well although some tweaking is required.

The frame past the shock mount on the left hand side is tweaked (too high), obviously occurred when the forklift damaged the rear frame upright. Cannot for the life of me bend it back as the simply isn't enough leverage :(

Need to jimmy up some sort of rig to get it back down.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 21, 2011, 18:43:55
So jig wasn't exactly jimmied but I did take my frame over to the father in laws to bend it into submission (he's got a great workbench and a huge bastard vice). In the end got it pretty damn sweet and really pleased.

Removed the tweak in the rear frame after the upper shock mount, got the frame straight with enough clearance for the new rear frame upright and ensured the frame ends were parallel for the new rear hoop.

Just need to get the sidestand section replaced and I will be ready for the welder :)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 22, 2011, 05:35:14
This evenings endeavors, bought myself a valve spring compressor and decided to pull the valves, springs etc as I am going to properly clean the head plus I need to have a valve guide fixed up:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/00877446.jpg)

Secondly thought I would install my replacement frame sections with sleeves. Here's the parts:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/f184f3f1.jpg)

Here's the cut sections:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/5b860344.jpg)

It was a struggle getting the sleeves centrally located on the gap but the effort paid off as they have got stuck now in the middle, really locking the joint solid ready for welding. I don't think there are any issues with joint strength, especially pleased with my 7 degree bent upright :):

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/eff68a2e.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/7916c07a.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/ddcc220c.jpg)

Installed the rear hoop too:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/a392e8f7.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/75394026.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/8ad0069b.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/2c743eb1.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/3cb04381.jpg)

Sorry about the fuzzy pics, iPhone doesn't like low light.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 24, 2011, 00:52:04
Looking for a few things to do today and I thought I would revisit the header collars. Couldn't work out how they got on there if they wouldn't come off, something must have got gunked up over the years.

Method 1: big bloody hammer, chock of wood and a few good swings. Got the collars half way off the end of the header but that was about it :(

Method 2: angle grinder!

That one worked a treat, however the enevitable consequence is my collars are now ready for the bin. I am not convinced the stock collars will fit my aftermarket headers so I will be looking at getting something fabricated like these:

(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSJnOlZ1j18-eSxP02cZH7J8QYWpB-xOvvnL-76UEVbWW48JNs4)

Looks like the header has taken a whack at some stage, the lower section is crushed and there is a crappy repair where the 4 pipes go into 1. Looking to have a custom muffler bent from the same mob that did my frame piping, so will probably get them to bend a replacement section for the header too.

Anyone know how to identify the material the headers are made from, its got a brown slight tinge and doesn't get rusty, I am guessing stainless.

Also had a crack at cleaning the valves, they have some serious caked on crap on the each side of the face, how is it best to clean these up?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 28, 2011, 00:56:56
Mr Claus was good to me this year and bought me one of these:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/d123da41.jpg)

Only a small one at 120lpm but enough for some small jobs. Here's what else he put in my stocking:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/fd8fb7ab.jpg)

I was especially excited about the sandblaster kit for the compressor and went out and got some media for it to run it through its paces:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/6c2c64e0.jpg)

Got some small bits to sandblast and it worked a treat. The compressor doesn't keep up but I can get a good bit done before it looses power and it doesn't take too long to charge back up. Cleaned up the upper triple clamp, brake arm and throttle body. These will be sanded back and polished except for the triples which are going to be powdercoated with the frame:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/62b2ed6a.jpg)

Lastly had a crack at the head and barrel, used the soda on the valve and gasket faces and the sand on the fins. There was some serious baked on crap in between the fins, took some effort to get it out:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/6f7e725b.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/6c84fb6f.jpg)

Fins are getting black paint with the cases and valve cover silver.

Doing some general cleaning up and found the cause of my damaged cam journal:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/885a38e8.jpg)

About 1/3 of the top ring is missing and this is clearly visible buried in the cam journal. Anyone know why these things let go so hard?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: bikeboy on Dec 28, 2011, 01:07:32
wow. I've never seen a failure like that before. Very interesting  ;D


Oh. and the sandblaster will be your new best friend  ;)
ian
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 28, 2011, 01:15:28
wow. I've never seen a failure like that before. Very interesting  ;D


Oh. and the sandblaster will be your new best friend  ;)
ian

Me either, I've seen fragments come off a ring but never one punch it's way through the piston and weld itself to the ring groove. Maybe a fault in the piston as the barrel was completely untouched, pity I can't say the same for the cam and journal :(

The blaster is an awesome bit of kit, got to get a better setup as I am currently spraying media all over the back garden. Any DIY solutions for a cabinet?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: bikeboy on Dec 28, 2011, 01:34:20
Any DIY solutions for a cabinet?

well, there are a couple in the $50 mod thread from memory, but if you're going to be doing a lot of this, one of these is essential:

(http://www.ianfox.net.au/forumPix/misc/blaster.jpg)

but then. You'd need a bigger compressor  :(

where does it stop  >:(

cheers
ian
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 28, 2011, 02:05:50
where does it stop  >:(

Indeed!

Think I might get some timber from the father in law and have a crack at putting a medium sized one together. The lawn and my lungs are not coping with the blasting and I still have the engine cases to do.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: bikeboy on Dec 28, 2011, 02:15:52
The lawn and my lungs are not coping with the blasting and I still have the engine cases to do.

At the very least, you should have a good respirator/mask?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 28, 2011, 02:27:07
At the very least, you should have a good respirator/mask?

Hear you loud and clear Ian, I think DIY cabinet is the way forward, saves on abrasive, saves the lawn, saves my breathing bags :)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Dec 28, 2011, 08:54:58
I've seen a DIY blasting cabinet made from those plastic storage tubs with the lid cut out and clear plexi "window" put in the opening and a pair of long rubber gloves in a couple holes in the side... similar to this I found on google images.
 
(http://i36.tinypic.com/2j2732h.jpg)
 
(http://i35.tinypic.com/34fhe75.jpg)
 
(http://www.instructables.com/files/deriv/FJQ/AE77/FK27BHGG/FJQAE77FK27BHGG.MEDIUM.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 29, 2011, 03:43:20
Here's my stock chain guard, bent and generally sad and fugly. Plan was to copy the shape, cut out 2 sides and a top from 3mm Alu sheet.

The original:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/32293b95.jpg)

My efforts with an angle grinder:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/90bb5bc9.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/22a88e0b.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/9ff24ded.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/5ed5a7e9.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/ad7250d0.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/b231400c.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/1df1b12a.jpg)

Need to shape the tops a bit more so they are semetrical add some speed holes and have it tig'd.

I think it's a bit too wide and I might run into clearance issues, I do like how tough it looks though. What's peoples thoughts?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Rocan on Dec 29, 2011, 03:46:59
my thoughts: chain guards are unnecessary sprung weight. They dont do much in keeping a broken chain at bay, and heel guards on rearsets keep your feet out of trouble. And with wax chain lube, no worries of mess.


But you did a good job none the less  ;)

smooth the corners down and you got a pretty piece. some speed holes will do it some good also, and help to keep the chain cool (good for about 10hp, honest).  ;D
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 29, 2011, 04:01:13
Hear you Rocan but in Oz they are mandatory for a road certificate.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: eyhonda on Dec 29, 2011, 07:27:37
I usually get rid of them too.  Same with turn signals.  Both aren't needed here in Michigan.   But if you do need it, make it much smaller.   Follow the cafe racer "rules", only what it needs and no more.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Staffy on Dec 29, 2011, 07:29:00
You can always put the stocker on for checks then shelve it the rest of the year...
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: bikeboy on Dec 30, 2011, 02:09:46
Follow the cafe racer "rules", only what it needs and no more.

I agree. This is one I put on my 900. But then, I didn't need to get a roadworthy  ;)

(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x218/cb900/parts/chainGuard2.jpg)

Just wanted something to contain the chain lube a bit.

cheers
ian
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 30, 2011, 05:53:55
I agree. This is one I put on my 900. But then, I didn't need to get a roadworthy  ;)

(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x218/cb900/parts/chainGuard2.jpg)

Just wanted something to contain the chain lube a bit.

cheers
ian

Hmmmmmmm, thanks for the inspiration, really like how minimal that is. I think I can cut out a fair chunk of mine to get it closer to that and still keep it legal.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 30, 2011, 05:57:26
Went to the father in laws tonight to get a bunch of timber from his treasure trove of a garage. Here's what I got:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0a82f756.jpg)

Built a box, still have to put a hinged lid with a large Perspex viewing hole and cut the hand holes and install some gloves:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/cd212e6e.jpg)

Here is my floor:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0ce5bc9a.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/28077fe9.jpg)

Hope it works!

Lastly got some mesh with supporting cross beams to put parts on, got to silicone a line and a light in there and it should be ready to test run :)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 30, 2011, 06:14:30
I think I am going to change the floor so that it comes in from both sides and meets in the middle, should give me a steeper angle.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: eyhonda on Dec 30, 2011, 09:05:31
Nice work on the box!   Don't forget the light and a vac hole.   Use a shop vac to suck out the floating dust that blocks your vision.    Also, a foot pedal may provide better control than a trigger.   Finally, add a moisture trap and regulator.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 31, 2011, 01:14:51
You really should get the rear wheel/tyre in swing am and the shocks your going to use before welding rear hoop.
 I always fit shock without spring to see where the wheel is going to end up, usually higher than you expect.
 I don't know how a piece of piston ring could go through oil pump, through filter, up oil passage and into cam bearing?
If it went up with cam chain, it would leave marks, plus, it would be more likely to damage other stuff.
You want to strip oil pump and check it, damage on main bearings and cam bearings shows something was wrong somewhere?
 You really need to check con rod on the piston that is beat up, if big end is damaged, the rod could be close to stress failure?
 I'm going to read some more and make comments later  ;D
Piston failed because of constant over revving, probably from cold
  There was probably a very slight pick up between piston and bore, ring caught on it and started vibrating up and down in ring groove. (you can see lands got mushroomed enough to be rubbing on cylinder walls)
 Was it #3 cylinder? (#3 seems to be an issue on most Honda's when things go wrong :o )
 
 
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 31, 2011, 02:51:01
Woah, monster post PJ.

Understand about mounting all the gear before welding the rear hoop and I did a rough test fit with the broken bits as I cut the thing.

I was planning on lifting the rear a bit with some 900 shocks, do you think that will help at all? Worst case I can cut the thing off again and weld in some extra length. I really like the look of the hoop over the centre of the rear tyre and was going to lift the rear to make it work.

I wasn't thinking straight when I linked the piston ring with my cam issue, although it still looks suspiciously similar. Main bearings are fine, some slight scuffing but not enough to cause the cam issue. There is no play in any of the big ends, but I haven't taken them off the crank yet, should I split the rods and check?

The motor actually looks really clean apart from the piston ring and cam damage, not sure where else it could have come from.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 31, 2011, 03:48:46
Yep, when it's that far down you need to check big end bearings.
 You need to check crank and get new mains, those marks are a lot more serious than they look.
As I said earlier, strip oil pump, the trochoid outer rotor has been known to break (they still pump oil as they destroy housing)
 If rear loop is still too low, tilt it upwards a bit or extend it so wheel can fit in the 'loop'
 Your tray may be too low?
 Sorry to be 'doom and gloom' but, it's better to know now rather than out on the road
Particularly as major blow up's always happen miles from home- mine was 230 miles away (in 1977,1967 CD175 blew left big end  :( )
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 31, 2011, 18:46:54
It's not doom and gloom PJ, I have the whole thing stripped in bags already, it's just splitting the rods too.

Haven't looked at the oil pump yet either so that will be interesting.

Been reading that you cannot mig chromoly, is that true? My new frame sections are chromoly and I want to make sure they are welded properly. Have a mate with a mig but will have to send it out if it needs a tig.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 31, 2011, 23:08:06
PJ, here's the oil pump. God knows why but all the Philips head screws are a bitch to undo, have to drill most of them out:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0635aa05.jpg)

Inside, some minor scuffing on the impeller, not sure if that's normal, cannot feel it with my finger:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/29121732.jpg)

I cleaned out the impeller half and this dowel fell out, is it the key for the impeller? Here's where I put it back:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/60626c67.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 31, 2011, 23:15:00
That used to be smooth.
 There are specs for clearance , but, 'new' pump may be easier.
The drive pin does fit in that hole.
 What do the rotors look like? (pitting on tips and scuffs on 'bumps'?)
 I'll see if I cn find link to 400 oil pump mods.
 If you can feel any scratches with fingernail, it's definitely 'done'
BTW, you do have an impact driver?

http://www.ttr400.com.istemp.com/oil%20pump%20article.pdf
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 31, 2011, 23:48:22
Yep, pitting on tips and scuffs. Replacement? Are they available new?

I have a dewalt 18v impact driver, just destroys the head. Is it ok to replace most of the bolts on the bike with hex heads?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 01, 2012, 00:35:58
On the quest still for the source of my cam damage. Stripped the crank, surprisingly looks good:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/eec9e428.jpg)

Starting from points side, big ends:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/f8ed3f14.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/7d233c58.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/ae28215c.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/42eacbdf.jpg)

Worryingly the last little end has some brassy shavings in it:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/242ae58f.jpg)

What's the consensus? Replace the big ends? What about the shavings?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 01, 2012, 02:46:28
Will be installing taper bearings into the head stem. Can I cut these off the stem?

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/fca8f7d0.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 01, 2012, 03:02:48
You can stretch the rubber seal off then use a blunt chisel to 'lift' bearing race and drift it off stem.
 Rods are not bushed so there shouldn't be any bronze in there, I would change them if someone bored out small end and fitted bushes (they may need changing anyway, can't really make it out too well on laptop, I'll take a look on big monitor tomorrow)
 Big end shells look OK but if you change rods you'll probably have to fit new shells.
 This is starting to look real expensive?
Hell of a nice motor to work with though, I built a 495cc (I think? 56mm bore) around 1986
Only '400' I've ever ridden that would wheelie 'off the throttle' (no clutching it, no extra low gearing)
 Just get to 6K, back of and rap it some
 
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 01, 2012, 03:54:54
Expensive: yep, but not too bad yet. The oil pump is going to be an unexpected killer! £175 from David Silver :(

I don't think the rods are bushed in the little ends, not sure why those shavings are there though.

Still can't find the cam issue. The only catastrophic failure has been the  piston ring.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Staffy on Jan 01, 2012, 04:22:26
Stick the whole lot in the freezer for an afternoon.  The shrinkage will help loosen it and you can then tap it off with a blunt chisel or something of that sort.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 01, 2012, 05:05:27
Stick the whole lot in the freezer for an afternoon.  The shrinkage will help loosen it and you can then tap it off with a blunt chisel or something of that sort.

Good idea, thanks Staffy.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Staffy on Jan 01, 2012, 05:10:37
If you've got a heat torch to heat up the lower race quickly once you take it out the freezer that'll help too.

Just make sure it's hidden behind the frozen mixed veges in the freezer or SWMBO might have you in the doghouse!
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 01, 2012, 05:18:54
If you've got a heat torch to heat up the lower race quickly once you take it out the freezer that'll help too.

Just make sure it's hidden behind the frozen mixed veges in the freezer or SWMBO might have you in the doghouse!

I have a butane torch, might tickle it with that before I hit it. Cheers.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 01, 2012, 12:29:20
Oil pump is pretty spendy but still cheaper than a new engine (if you can find one)
 Quite surprised they are available at any price
I would look for a set of rods as well, used should be fine as your not building a race motor (Carrillo, APE, or Falicon would be nice but real expensive, if you can find them)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 01, 2012, 18:56:30
What's the issue with the rods PJ?

I just remembered where the copper shavings came from. I used some copper plumbing pipe to lock the rods when I took the engine apart! Thankfully it's not from the motor at all :)

Was your reco for new rods because of the copper or something else?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 01, 2012, 22:14:57
Cool, you know where it's from so that's OK.
The inside is smooth where pins run?
Got pics of georotors from pump showing condition?
 
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 01, 2012, 23:10:09
Yeah inside is smooth, looks like I dodged a bullet on the rods then and won't have to replace.

Here is the oil pump rotors:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/4c29db8d.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/f28bbe5c.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/6c8c11d5.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/4f2bd28e.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/769c4ae4.jpg)

Looks like the bits went on the outside of the rotors as the lobes aren't too bad but the top and bottom faces are scratched really bad.

Oh and I finished my cabinet. Just have to install the gloves :)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/273bf9ce.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 01, 2012, 23:41:56
If you've got a heat torch to heat up the lower race quickly once you take it out the freezer that'll help too.

Just make sure it's hidden behind the frozen mixed veges in the freezer or SWMBO might have you in the doghouse!

Worked a treat Staffy! Little heat with the torch and it drifted straight off:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/53ca6156.jpg)

Now what's the trick for the races in the head stem?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 02, 2012, 00:48:57
WOW, don't think I've seen an oil pump that close to self destruction.
 Lucky outer rotor didn't crack
Looks like filthy oil was running through it for a while, probably have micro-particles embedded in bearing shells
You can drift races out of frame easier than getting bottom bearing off, just use a long bar from other end
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 02, 2012, 02:29:53
Got stuck into a really dirty job today; cleaning the tank. Had a crack at paint stripper but it didn't want to touch the many layers of paint and bog. On the right hand side there was quite a big dent which I could see from the inside of the tank. Some dodgy hammer action and I managed to push it out along with a healthy chunk of filler.

In the end the only thing that the tank would understand was a grinder with sand disc and a drill with wire wheel. Here is the result:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/86ea4526.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/1c2fe649.jpg)

You can see the dent I hammered out in the pic above. Here is a closer look:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/851961a1.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/1ed932ce.jpg)

I got the majority of it out but the metal is pretty rippled, what's the best fix? Bog it up or try some of that lead style filler? Which is the most long term and proper fix?

Thought I would test fit the knee cutouts too, loving the way this is going:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/b611d8b0.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/8ca85250.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/a7fb271d.jpg)

Still need to trim the rear of the knee cutouts sections as they hang a bit low and foul the frame. Once it's welded up I will cut it back then.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 02, 2012, 02:40:36
WOW, don't think I've seen an oil pump that close to self destruction.
 Lucky outer rotor didn't crack
Looks like filthy oil was running through it for a while, probably have micro-particles embedded in bearing shells
You can drift races out of frame easier than getting bottom bearing off, just use a long bar from other end

Any idea what oil pumps are common between bikes? There a quite a few on eBay but not for the 400. I assume the 350f is the same? Also what year 750's should I be looking at for the TTR400 oil pump mod?

Had a crack at hitting the races out the other day, didn't budge at all. Might get some heat on the head stem and see what happens after that.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Staffy on Jan 02, 2012, 02:53:40
Worked a treat Staffy! Little heat with the torch and it drifted straight off:
Now what's the trick for the races in the head stem?

Glad to hear it.  If you're talking about the bearing races inside the downtube the steering pivot goes into then that's a destrocto job.  You need to get the biggest, dirtiest most bastard flathead screwdriver and hammer you have and drive the suckers out from inside.  So you smack the top one out from underneath and the bottom one from on top.

I remember the SR500 was a real pain as there was nowhere to get onto 'em.  The trick there is to notch just inside the steering tube so that next time you have somewhere to get some purchase. 

I hope we're talking about the same bearing races here by the way....
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 02, 2012, 03:12:48
Yeah they are the ones Staffy. Do the taper bearing kits come with new races? Or are they not required?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Staffy on Jan 02, 2012, 03:36:26
All bearing sets should come with new races.  It's especially important to replace the races in steering bearings as the only have limited movement and over time then "notch" into the race.  When you fit new bearings it's good practice to fit the races too to ensure smooth movement.

As I said before, if you have trouble getting a screwdriver under the race and tapping them out then it's worth notching into the steering tube after you get the races out to make it simpler for the next person who has to do the job.

If you can't get under them you could try a few things.  You could carefully chisel into the face of the race until it's fatigued enough that you cn fit a small flathead between the race and the steering tube from on top, enabling you to deform it and pry it out.  You could also (very carefully) drill two holes into opposite sides of the face of the race then screw a self tapper into each one.  With two pairs of pliers and some inox, wd-40 or something of that sort you may be able to get them out by pulling.

Whatever you do, try not to gouge or wear away any of the mating surfaces that the bearing race sits in.  It's not overly important in this scenario, but still it's good practice to be careful ;)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 02, 2012, 03:55:34
Excellent, thanks Staffy. Got an All Balls one saved on eBay and can definitely see the races.

Will get creative with some heat, cold and hammering.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 02, 2012, 05:24:05
Eugh, shouldn't have bothered with the races tonight. Top one came out in 4 hits, bottom one is well and truly stuck in there.

Hit hand 3 times with hammer and it's still not out. Something must be catching because the rear side keeps hanging on something.

Will get some compressed air to spray the race with to try and freeze it and then give the head stem some heat.

Failing that will be looking for a very small grinder disc ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: bikeboy on Jan 02, 2012, 05:29:15
Yeah, the bottom ones are a pain. Can't get enough purchase on the rim of the race to really belt it. I've tried all sorts od bent screwdrivers and punches, but a dremmel always works  ;)

cheers
ian
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 02, 2012, 05:36:22
Dremel it's going to be I suspect.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 02, 2012, 13:24:45
You need to beat it front/back and 'walk' it out
They are always a pain to remove, taper races are much worse as they have even less of a lip
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Staffy on Jan 02, 2012, 17:23:13
taper races are much worse as they have even less of a lip
hence the notching in the frame ;)
Don't forget to do it neemo
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 02, 2012, 17:50:48
You need to beat it front/back and 'walk' it out

Did that but I suspect there is an issue as one side is not moving. There is a curl of metal (razor sharp too) leading that edge which makes me think it's caught up.

Will get a tiny grinder disc for my air tool and carefully cut it out. At least the new ones can be put in the freezer. What do people drive them in with or will they seat themselves if cold enough?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Staffy on Jan 02, 2012, 17:58:29
Cold ones should go in easy but I've always (carefully) used a socket that fits just inside the internal diamter of the steering tube.  That way it sits neatly on the top of the race without damaging the face of it. 
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 02, 2012, 21:19:54
Ah, like wheel bearings. Cheers.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Staffy on Jan 02, 2012, 23:19:18
Zacly.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 07, 2012, 04:10:41
Don't own a Dremel so I thought I would try and jam some Dremel discs on my air cutter. The aim was to cut a chunk out of the lower steering race so I could bash the bastard out!

Worked a treat although there wasn't a lot of working room, need to try and get the cuttin disc a bit further away from the tool.

In the end pleased to have got the race out without too much trouble:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/1f11232d.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 07, 2012, 22:34:14
Polishing prep started today. First up the fork leg. Went well until I saw a rusted snapped bolt in one of the holes. No problem, a trip down to thr hardware store for an easy out. 20 mins later after some penetrating oil and I managed to snap the stupid thing!

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/cd154f14.jpg)

Thought I would try and drill the other side to bang it out but this didn't work :(

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/4c5ec712.jpg)

Looks like I am now looking for a replacement non brake side fork lower. Bollox!

Oh well, thought I would have a crack at something that wasn't buggered, the chain guard side case cover. Damn this sanding business takes some time! This case cover was damn corroded and I tried a number of times to gently polish it but to be honest it was easier to get a bunch of 180 grit and get rid of the corrosion by hand.

Went well and it's actually very therapeutic looking for all the tiny scratches. Next up the 400 wet and dry:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/f167ecfc.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/156cab83.jpg)

I was going to grind off the raised sections but they looked awesome when I squared them off and they were brushed. They will be staying and I will be brushing them to offer some contrast against the polished part.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Staffy on Jan 08, 2012, 01:00:34
Put a wanted ad for one of those legs on here.  bet there's tons around and the postage from overseas won't be too bad.  It's worth a shot right?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: 1976cb356 on Jan 08, 2012, 01:16:37
I know polishing takes forever, I am still polishing stuff. I have to do it off and on. I would make a sanding mop, out of 600 grit paper. Cuts the time nearly in half. You can put it on a drill or drill press. Super easy to make, takes a little time but it pays it self off. Fun to use also.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: bikeboy on Jan 08, 2012, 01:27:43
Put a wanted ad for one of those legs on here.  bet there's tons around and the postage from overseas won't be too bad.  It's worth a shot right?

How much of a hurry are you in neevo? I have a pair here somewhere? Lowers should be OK. Yours for postage.

Let me know.

cheers
ian
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 08, 2012, 02:39:00
How much of a hurry are you in neevo? I have a pair here somewhere? Lowers should be OK. Yours for postage.

Let me know.

cheers
ian

Not massive hurry as I am on a restricted budget for the next month (nil ;)) and I still need to have the legs rolled to get a tweak out of them.

Are you talking the whole legs? I only need a lower right hand side leg. Happy to pay postage!

You don't have any of the following too do you?

Carbs
Cam
Headlight bucket
Oil pump rotor

Cheers!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: bikeboy on Jan 08, 2012, 05:20:34
Not massive hurry as I am on a restricted budget for the next month (nil ;)) and I still need to have the legs rolled to get a tweak out of them.

Are you talking the whole legs? I only need a lower right hand side leg. Happy to pay postage!

You don't have any of the following too do you?

Carbs
Cam
Headlight bucket
Oil pump rotor

Cheers!

cool. I'll strip them for you during the week then. Just the lowers- inners are stuffed. You may as well have both-get them out of my hair. can't see it adding too much to postage. That's all I've got I'm afraid.

cheers
ian
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 08, 2012, 07:38:03
No problemo, Cheers Ian!

Edit: Just realised your in Oz, even better!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: bikeboy on Jan 09, 2012, 23:16:30
Edit: Just realised your in Oz, even better!

It is indeed  ;)

PM me your address when you get a minute. I've given them a rough clean and I'll pack 'em up for you (eventually ::))

cheers
ian
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 09, 2012, 23:26:26
EASY -OUT sucks
They always have always will.
 I've wasted way too much time repairing other peoples stuff,easy snap are some of the worst things ever 'invented'
 If the original bolt was stuck tight enough to break, a smaller diameter 'wedge' won't remove it.
 The only time they work is if bolt is already 'loose' in which case a spring loaded punch will turn bolt out
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 10, 2012, 01:32:08
What's the best fix then PJ? Drilling it out from the beginning. What's the technique for that?

1. Pilot hole
2. Bolt width drill bit to clear

I worry if its not 100% centered I'm going to ruin threads.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Jan 10, 2012, 03:58:51
Hey, nice build........
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 10, 2012, 05:10:09
Hey, nice build........

You've seen my pile of crap haven't you?

Motor farked! Frame farked!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Jan 10, 2012, 05:13:56
HAHAHAHA, yes but thats how these always start, should have seen my cafe at the beginning....
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 10, 2012, 15:13:59
Best 'recent invention', left hand drill bits.
 If you get off center, the next step is a carbide burr in a Dremel (they are available cheaper than the $13~$18 each  Dremel want)
 I bought a set of diamond burrs from Harbor Freight Tools (made in China, you probably have something similar in Oz, if not, eBay)
Diamond burrs will grind through easy out (and broken carbide bits)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 10, 2012, 20:26:33
Latest addition to the neevo workshop:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/8fb5ff9a.jpg)

Can't wait to see how it goes although plenty more sanding before the buffing wheels get a run throug.

Also requires some finessing of the work bench to get everything neat and organised.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 10, 2012, 21:24:01
Mount it diagonally across corner of bench for polishing, you need the clearance.
 Can you remove the guards? 'open' wheels will also make life easier
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 10, 2012, 23:23:17
Will be looking to swap the shocks on my bike for longer ones to ensure rear end clearance and get the stance I want. Was looking at 900f shocks because I like the look of the reservoir and came across these on eBay. Anyone got thoughts on these or options for 365mm + shocks with a reservoir, eye at top and clevis at bottom?

http://bit.ly/y6WCI4
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 11, 2012, 00:18:38
They are Chinese shocks and come from China not France (I know, I bought single spring from same guy)
 Look through build thread, I think around page 5 or 6
 BTW, dual springs just reduce spring rate
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 11, 2012, 00:26:55
Mount it diagonally across corner of bench for polishing, you need the clearance.
 Can you remove the guards? 'open' wheels will also make life easier

One step ahead of you there PJ (first time for everything ;)):

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/bb9c50bd.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/36072fd1.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/4f5d062d.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/9db6878f.jpg)

Gets reasonable clearance with buffing wheels on:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/faed5436.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/81dff75e.jpg)

How is it best to mount buffing wheels? Mine are 2 different hole sizes, one fits perfectly on the wide part but the old washers are too wide apart for the buffing wheels. One wheel came with metal inserts but it's difficult to make sure the hole is properly centered as it only fits on thr thin part and is a bit too but for it:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/5a414547.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 11, 2012, 01:22:59
Yep, that looks good
 Soon going to have a bunch of shiny stuff  8)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Staffy on Jan 11, 2012, 06:15:05
Gotta get me one of dem dere fings.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Kwality on Jan 11, 2012, 07:51:40
Hi Neevo - You might want to pick up a buff spindle for your grinder - it's tapered to a point and allows the buff to be easily mounted.  A range of sizes too.

Leigh
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 11, 2012, 08:10:45
Hi Neevo - You might want to pick up a buff spindle for your grinder - it's tapered to a point and allows the buff to be easily mounted.  A range of sizes too.

Leigh

Thought so. I have both 5/8 and 1/2" buffing wheels and I suspect my thread on my grinder is 1/2".

If I get a 1/2" tapered spindle will it go larger than 5/8" so I can mount those too?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Ianmallee on Jan 11, 2012, 08:17:36
Haven't had the time to get on here, did you manage I get the bolt out or a new leg? If not I can give it a go for you. Weld on another bolt and then turn it out
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 12, 2012, 02:30:14
Haven't had the time to get on here, did you manage I get the bolt out or a new leg? If not I can give it a go for you. Weld on another bolt and then turn it out

New leg.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 12, 2012, 03:03:32
Had a crack at some polishing today... turns out I suck balls at it ;)

The parts were shinier but the reflection was not great. I think I was loading waaaaay too much compound on the wheel as it was leaving a greasy mess all over the part. Oh well it's a learning curve.

Running the buffer in 1 direction is impossible too, plus getting into recesses etc with an 8" buffing wheel is impossible.

Might need to practice a bit this weekend.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 12, 2012, 12:48:46
Use more compound to remove compound.
 In my experience, wheels need a bit of conditioning and use before they work properly
If you can see any 'white' cotton on 'face you need more compo and more 'heat' into the wheels to get waxes to melt in (I don't know if it's theoretically 'correct' but, it works for me)
 Load wheel little and often, single 'wipe' of compo is usually enough after initial 'loading'
 You need a reasonable finish (about 400 grit) before starting polishing
Start with black and work down to finer (red/brown is usually enough)
 One thing I do, ignore advice about separate wheels for different colour compo until your finishing (only need one 'soft' un-stitched finishing wheel)
 If your using black, it may be too dry, stick some brown compo on wheel and keep going, swapping between black/red as needed
 BTW, metal should get warm/hot.
I always wear two pairs of gloves, cotton over mechanics and keep them in storage box with compounds (mops get hung on the wall)
 DON'T wear headphones or even have radio/music on when polishing, you need to be aware where your hands are and any/all edges that could catch on mop
Only use lower portion of mop (four o'clock or seven o'clock positions), if anything catches, let it go (don't put your fingers in any holes or where they could get trapped)
 You'll develop your own technique eventually
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MotorbikeBruno on Jan 12, 2012, 14:25:29
Only use lower portion of mop (four o'clock or seven o'clock positions), if anything catches, let it go (don't put your fingers in any holes or where they could get trapped)
 You'll develop your own technique eventually

THIS ^^^^^
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 12, 2012, 16:17:32
Thanks PJ. I was pretty close to what you were saying, I read your polishing posts a few times. I am using the lower part of the wheel too however I suspect the wheels are getting better, maybe they weren't loaded with enough compound. I had a second try last night and the black emery seemed to be polishing the part on its own.

All parts were sanded with 120 to get deep gouges out, 180, then wet 400 and 600, all by hand (now with blisters).
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 12, 2012, 16:19:14
Ah except for the warm hot bit. I was trying to keep the metal cold. I will get some more heat into the parts too.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 13, 2012, 02:54:17
So looking forward to a weekend polishing. Needless to say there is plenty of room for improvement as I don't quite have my technique down. Here is my last efforts:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/8b583274.jpg)

The brake arm I had another go at tonight and it's getting much better:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/2aa14013.jpg)

Plenty more on the menu this weekend:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/95627905.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 13, 2012, 03:01:22
Found more fixes too. Looks like something has punched through the clutch case cover. Anyone got thoughts on what would cause this?

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/07bb78b8.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/b0a9c8dd.jpg)

Looks like the outside is domed due to the force behind it. Has been TIG welded back up, not particularly well. This will be tidied up.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 13, 2012, 14:03:55
Not common but I've seen it before.
 Someone didn't torque the primary drive bolt, it backed out and hit cover
 It may be the wrong bolt as it's still rubbing by the look of it
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 14, 2012, 02:32:38
Not common but I've seen it before.
 Someone didn't torque the primary drive bolt, it backed out and hit cover
 It may be the wrong bolt as it's still rubbing by the look of it

Thought it would be that. I will double check the bolt.

Also need some polishing advice. I am wet sanding up to 600 grit, then I move on to buffing. Emery first, then the brown one (tripoli?). I already have a great shine at this stage (not total mirror but close). I am pretty happy where it is there but I am going on to the next stage... white rouge.

This is where it goes wrong and not sure why. The white makes all my shiny parts go all hazy. What am I doing wrong? I thought the white would really make it shine?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: eyhonda on Jan 14, 2012, 08:50:32
The white polish is used on a loose buffing wheel.  The prior rough buffing is done on a tight knitted buffing wheel.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 14, 2012, 08:59:17
Using the emery on a tight sewn wheel, brown in a loose sewn wheel and white on a loose seen wheel with the stitching removed.

Maybe I will go back to the brown and leave it there. Certainly shiny enough for me.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: eyhonda on Jan 14, 2012, 09:07:51
It's a personal preference.   Me, I like it more satin.  Too much shine is too blingy and might as well be chrome. On a stock bike, most of us are trying to remove the chrome!  Plus, the shinier it is, the harder it is to keep it that way.  I want a badass bike, not a pretty trailer queen.  Funny thing is, my 15 year feels the same way for his cb100!  I repeat, it's a personal preference.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 14, 2012, 14:29:42
I don't bother with the white, Tripoli and done.
 Really, you need a high quality loose wheel if your using ir, but, you can get 'show quality' with just the brown compo.
 Join Caswell plating forums, they have a lot of information.

http://www.caswellplating.com/buffs/buffman.htm
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 14, 2012, 22:12:53
I suspect the problem is in my gloves, anyone care to comment?

I have these leather fingered cotton gardening gloves and they are great however I have been using them in every stage, 120 grit, emery, tripoli, rouge.

Given I am handling the items so much does anyone think the ground in compound could be damaging the finish after emery?

Will be looking at getting gloves for each of the wheels too.

Cannot work out why my finish is so bad as at the moment the shiniest it is, is after emery.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Staffy on Jan 14, 2012, 22:21:58
Last time I did this (which is too long to remember jack shit about it) I'm pretty sure I just used cotton gloves and nothing else.  I seem to remember the fingers getting a little hot but I reckon I just grew some balls and lived with it :P
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 14, 2012, 22:22:38
Probably, as I said, I use knitted cotton gloves over mechanic gloves
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 14, 2012, 22:32:23
Going to Bunnings to get me some cotton gloves!

Can you sand with an air rotary tool? I have a 3" tool with a tonne of grits on its way and would love to prep my parts with that.

Not going for mirror finish, just nice and shiny.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Jan 14, 2012, 23:05:39
"air rotary tool" as in a Die Grinder? I can, but I have had a lot (years) of practice. One of the tricks is to keep it moving, rather fast... Don't pause in one spot and go the length of the part, swing around curves or you will make flat spots. There are literally hundereds of different types of attachmets to put in one. From carbide burrs, various shaped stones, sanding discs and scotch-brite pads in assorted grits and sizes. Seriously, the sky is the limit.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 15, 2012, 00:49:56
Like this:

(http://i.ebayimg.com/17/!B13gbe!BWk~$(KGrHqUOKm4E)67L3DgBBMgL5)iznQ~~_12.JPG)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: 1976cb356 on Jan 15, 2012, 02:10:27
Literally was just thinking about this, I went to home depot hoping they would have some finer grit discs. But they just had the assorted kit. I am about to order some finer grits to get my polishing done!
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 15, 2012, 02:12:33
So went and got me some cotton gloves to have another crack at this polishing malarkey:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/8c3e9023.jpg)

Here is what I was trying to improve upon:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/81f7551e.jpg)

Went well and it looks like I can put a bit more pressure into the wheel to get it to work. Much better result:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/25a19d40.jpg)

Still got some minor haze but I am suspecting that is because of my sanding technique. Looks like I will putting a tonne more elbow grease into thr sanding phases, oh joy :(
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 15, 2012, 03:01:58
Told ya so  ;D
 In middle pic you can still see marks from 240 or 320 grit?
400 will come out and 600 disappears real quick
Try sanding in different directions for each grit, that way it's more obvious if you still have scratches
Check paper or use wet to prevent build up scratching surface.
 Believe it or not, it's going to be quicker to de-grease the torque arm you made, start with 400 and do over (sucks to mess up what you already did but result is worth it.)
When done right, it will stay shiny for a long time as the polishing waxes will be 'melted' into surface (as soon as you 'clean' with aluminum polish it will tarnish faster)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 15, 2012, 04:32:21
This sanding lark is bloody hard work! Good to know, will crack out the sandpaper next weekend.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Staffy on Jan 15, 2012, 05:29:12
Everything is hard work until you know how to get it right.  Once you have it nailed then next time you'll piss it in!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 15, 2012, 05:52:15
BTW, just thought, DON'T polish the faces where caliper clamps together, you could make it out of parallel or wavy
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 15, 2012, 07:46:29
BTW, just thought, DON'T polish the faces where caliper clamps together, you could make it out of parallel or wavy

Oops! Hopefully I haven't taken too much off. 1 less bit to redo though.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Jan 15, 2012, 08:49:36
Like this:

(http://i.ebayimg.com/17/!B13gbe!BWk~$(KGrHqUOKm4E)67L3DgBBMgL5)iznQ~~_12.JPG)

Can't say I have seen one with a nose like that, all I have owned used a 1/4" collet like this.
 
(http://www.cordless-drills.net/images/pictures/chicago-pneumatic-air-mini-die-grinder-14-inch-inlet-4-cfm-22500-rpm.jpg)
 
Also be sure to use that grease needle and lube at the 90 degree zerts. There are gears in there that will wear if not maintained.
 
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 17, 2012, 02:34:28
Run out of things to do other than sanding and polishing do thought I would put some stuff back together and back on the bike to check some clearances.

I need to get my tank welded up and my aggressive knee cut outs removed the old petcock. Looking for an alternative position using the old thread and petcock that doesn't foul the top of the motor, maintains a reserve tap and is low enough to feed fuel.

Here's the bike:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/43970491.jpg)

Here is the proposed petcock position (blue arrow):

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/99800ca5.jpg)

Side view for clearance:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/916064bc.jpg)

How it looks:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/41b5478f.jpg)

It's less than ideal for my eye to be honest but I am not sure what options I have that keep a filter, tap and reserve. Anyone got any thoughts? I was thinking about running some thin copper pipe from each front end, one a short entry into the tank, 1 longer, running the lines flush with the tank and out near the carbs with a switching tap and fuel filter afterwards. Still happy to do that just not sure on the neatest way to do it.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Staffy on Jan 17, 2012, 04:35:31
I think you're right, you might need to run pipe from the low point inside the tank to come out somewhere further back.  There's no rule that says the petcock needs to be mounted on the tank by the way, just make it so it can come off with the tank and you're set.  You could run some pipe to an outlet, then hose to the petcock mounted on the down tube of the frame.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 17, 2012, 05:04:46
There's no rule that says the petcock needs to be mounted on the tank by the way, just make it so it can come off with the tank and you're set.  You could run some pipe to an outlet, then hose to the petcock mounted on the down tube of the frame.

Problem is Staffy the petcock has the reserve tubes. Thinking I might run a tube from the front where you can't see it to the rear with a tap and filter up the back. That way it won't be visible from the side and will be much neater.

Anyone got thoughts on mounting a fuel servo? Going to be getting an Acewell tacho in the end which has a wire for a fuel meter however the one they supply is massive (like a toilet float) and looks like it has to have access from the top of the tank.

If I could have a fuel light it would remove the need for a reserve tap.

Anyone know what diameter fuel/copper pipe would be needed to ensure appropriate supply to the carbs?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 17, 2012, 09:24:24
Main issue with mounting fuel tap at front of tank, any leaks are directly onto a hot engine or exhaust.
 The fuel will also be heated up and could cause vapor lock, particularly if you use copper as it transfers heat real good
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: eyhonda on Jan 17, 2012, 10:40:16
I believe the petcock can be drilled slightly larger to flow more fuel.  I've done it on a 175 before.    The petcocks are similar.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: bikeboy on Jan 17, 2012, 21:06:48
Hi Ed. Lowers have been posted. Should be with you soon.

cheers
ian
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 19, 2012, 05:45:06
Hi Ed. Lowers have been posted. Should be with you soon.

cheers
ian

Ian, got your message... your truly a legend. First build assist credits go to you ;)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 19, 2012, 05:54:46
Experts I have a question. I will be lifting the rear of my bike to get a more aggressive stance and ensure clearance with the tray under the rear frame with 14.5" shocks. Look I am going after is like GoingsMoto's 550 in the making.

Popped the front wheel on a steel reinforcement rod to see where an 18" rim would roughly sit. I want to lift the rear a bit more but when I dropped the shock the swingarm hit the exhaust mounting loop. Is this normal?

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/1de87a71.jpg)

Looking for options to create the clearance. Can cut the loop off but planned on using the original exhaust mount to attach my planned custom muffler. How about bending it out, should it actually clear the swingarm?

Here is the rear clearance. These are approx 13" I think so still looking for a bit of lift, looking at custom Hagons to get the results I am after:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/99507c2f.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/8e2b8a0c.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Staffy on Jan 19, 2012, 06:31:56
You could bend it but I guess it depends what you really need the loop for.  If you wanted it just for an exhaust mount you could always cut it off and weld on two small mounts which you could then mount a alloy exhaust bracket too.

If you do bend it out the way, keep in mind that you may have clearance in the shed, but you need to allow just a little more for torsional flex in the rear end as the swingarm can go from left to right a teeny bit under cornering forces. 
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 19, 2012, 06:42:58
Happy to bend it Staffy and would give it a bit extra to take the flex in the swingarm into account.

Do you know if it's supposed to clear the swingarm?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Staffy on Jan 19, 2012, 06:46:53
Probably not.  It looks like it's lower than the swingarm at the lowest intended swingarm angle so I think they didn't need to take it into account, but I don't know a lot about these bikes so take what I'm saying with a pinch of salt champ.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: eyhonda on Jan 19, 2012, 09:01:48
On my 400fs, I remember it hitting.   But since I did custom exhausts, that hoop was always cut off anyway.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 19, 2012, 16:40:41
On my 400fs, I remember it hitting.   But since I did custom exhausts, that hoop was always cut off anyway.

What did you hang the muffler off instead then?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: eyhonda on Jan 19, 2012, 16:53:55
I don't have the bike anymore but here is a pic of it in one of the earlier builds.

(http://www.eyhonda.com/cb400f/cb400fstage4_2.JPG)

The exhaust is a hard to find Yoshimura type exhaust made by Kerker.   It had a removeable baffle (I used a tab to remove it easier).   If you zoom in, you can see the hanger (welded to the exhaust) was connected to the centerstand bracket on the frame.   Of course, you can't use the centerstand in this scenario.

FYI, the NOS Koni shocks in this pic are from a 900f. 
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 19, 2012, 19:37:11
Thanks eyhonda, looks good that shorty muffler, little shorter than my plans so I may look at retaining the hoop and pulling it out a fraction.

I think I would like a little more lift in the rear of my bike too because of the tray and hoop. Anyone know what options I have? Taller shocks? Move the swingarm pivot points?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: hillsy on Jan 19, 2012, 19:50:52
Easiest way is use longer shocks, but what you have there looks pretty close. Best way to check your clearance is to remove the spring off the shock, then mount it up and pull the swingarm / wheel up to mimic full shock travel. If it clears, then you're OK.
 
If you go with longer shocks, you 'd want to check your chain doesn't touch the top of the swingarm pivot (you're effectively lowering the chain line). If that happens, you can get around that to some degree by using larger sprockets front and rear (IE 1 tooth up on the front and 3 teeth up on the rear will get you a similar ratio to what you have now)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 20, 2012, 02:50:20
Got it. Do these bikes have chain sliders?

What length shocks can you get? Do they go up as tall as 15" or 16"? Are there severe handling consequences to going that tall on the rear?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 20, 2012, 11:08:29
Yes, it will wobble and you'll probably fall down.
 It can be compensated for to a degree by fitting different offset yokes to increase trail but the steering angle will get steeper and make things unstable (think shopping cart wheels, they are designed for 3~4mph)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: eyhonda on Jan 20, 2012, 11:36:13
That's a whole other discussion!   When I built my 400f awhile back, I went with a lower offset triple which has more trail.  I then raked it to decrease it.    Generally speaking, a 1 inch difference (1 inch down in front or 1 inch up in rear) will give about a 1 degree change in steering rake.    For a detailed calculation, use this link:

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/advchoppercalc.html (http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/advchoppercalc.html)

Experiment with the numbers and you can see the immediate change.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 21, 2012, 04:57:25
I don't think I will need to lift the rear that much. Did some mock ups today and a 1" lift is actually quite a lot.

I think the 900f shocks will be ideal.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 21, 2012, 05:02:53
So a big thanks to Ian for the fork lowers, very kind to send me some replacements from his stock pile and I thought I would waste no time in getting them cleaned up.

Turns out my air sander is brilliant for getting parts prepped for buffing. My technique still sucks arse so I have decided to not go for mirror shine but just clean and generally shiny.

Here are the lowers with an ever increasing pile of shiny bits:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/66ce8720.jpg)

The air tool is not great for those nooks so I will need to get some more grits of paper to clean them up.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 21, 2012, 13:10:39
I don't think I will need to lift the rear that much. Did some mock ups today and a 1" lift is actually quite a lot.

I think the 900f shocks will be ideal.

 'and an inch is better than a mile in the right direction'
(I think Keith Richards?)
Doh, it was Bill Wyman, knw it was one of the Stones ("A New Fashion")
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: bikeboy on Jan 21, 2012, 17:41:13
So a big thanks to Ian for the fork lowers, very kind to send me some replacements from his stock pile and I thought I would waste no time in getting them cleaned up

Glad to help out. That stuff is looking good. You're getting the hang of this by the looks of it.

cheers
ian
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 21, 2012, 18:09:14
Glad to help out. That stuff is looking good. You're getting the hang of this by the looks of it.

Kind of ;)

The pics are always a bit misleading but I have decided to go for a shiny finish rather than mirror as I just can't seem to get them that finished.

The missus prefers shiny anyway and it should be easier to maintain.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 21, 2012, 20:57:16
Stripped the front wheel today so that I can send the hub out to have the fins taken off on a lathe. Contemplating doing the same on the rear too, anyone got some major concerns?

PJ was taking about the heat generated from the rear drum but it looks like there is still plenty of meat on there. If it is a dangerous thing I will just have the cross find removed.

Ready for some lathe action:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/5e22d8f8.jpg)

Rear got some sanding action and should be ready for the buffing wheel when it comes back.

Just need to sell a kidney to get new spokes and rims.

Getting a WM2 & WM3 combo from Buchanans with Sun rims (because I want them anodized black and the selection is greater), can anyone comment on the quality?

Edit:

Also got some left over frame tube and was thinking of making a brace for my swingarm. Is this a bad idea?

Mainly for aesthetics but some added flex reduction can't be a bad thing can it?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 21, 2012, 23:29:17
SUN rims used to be real good quality, don't know what they are like now but they should be good for the price (unless Buchanans has a 300% mark up?)
 Swing arm brace is a good idea in my opinion
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 21, 2012, 23:36:47
Swing arm brace is a good idea in my opinion

Any resources for fabricating one? At the moment I am just making it up.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: GoingsMoto on Jan 21, 2012, 23:47:12
You did a great job on the disc, the polishing looks amazing, I am sure that took a couple of hours. I am glad to see this thing coming along.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 21, 2012, 23:48:11
Nope, I bent a coat hanger, then found it wouldn't fit where I wanted and started over  ;D
I was originally going to make it AHRMA legal, but it wanted to be in the same place as the torque arm so I'm doing something different and bracing drive side only
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 21, 2012, 23:54:53
Nope, I bent a coat hanger, then found it wouldn't fit where I wanted and started over  ;D
I was originally going to make it AHRMA legal, but it wanted to be in the same place as the torque arm so I'm doing something different and bracing drive side only

That's the issue I'm having. I cannot work out how to clear the brake are and the chain,
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 22, 2012, 00:07:22
I was thinking of bracing swing arm and welding a new tap for torque arm directly to front end of brace.
 Moving torque arm out slightly would probably be a good idea to get a bit more clearance with a 110 tyre on wider rim
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 22, 2012, 00:42:24
You did a great job on the disc, the polishing looks amazing, I am sure that took a couple of hours. I am glad to see this thing coming along.

Thanks! Your build is one of the first I check out each day, definitely a bike that inspires me.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 27, 2012, 04:10:08
Going to be attacking the cases this weekend as they are dirty, very dirty!

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/c86aaef9.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/874a9d67.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/33c7504c.jpg)

Going to give it the full spar treatment. Kicking off with a kerosene bath and scrub, simple green and pressure washer clean then final scrub in the soda blasting cabinet.

Finishing touches are going to be VHT natural finish engine enamel. Anyone know who stocks it in Australia?

Looks like the cam chain has been slapping around a bit as its chewed out a bit of the case. Not too bad as there is still plenty of depth there to accept the rubber c damper. Anyone confirm my diagnosis?

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/849e8762.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/f25c7b24.jpg)

Lastly, I will be swapping out the crank bearings. Do I put the same ones back in or is there some other technique to it? Here is one of them removed:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/11638945.jpg)

I think it says D6B-A STD.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: bikeboy on Jan 27, 2012, 05:37:49
Going to give it the full spar treatment. Kicking off with a kerosene bath and scrub, simple green and pressure washer clean then final scrub in the soda blasting cabinet.

Finishing touches are going to be VHT natural finish engine enamel. Anyone know who stocks it in Australia? 

I'll start with a question for you Ed ;) Where do you get your simple green?

Burson's down here stock VHT, but I don't think I've seen that colour? What's a "natural finish? Is it a clear? I used their "cast aluminum" on other projects and it held up well. The Supercheap stuff is rubbish IMO. POR-15 do a very durable paint as well, but the silver is just too shiny for a stock look.

(http://www.ianfox.net.au/projects/resto/images/oilGauge.jpg)

Quote
Lastly, I will be swapping out the crank bearings. Do I put the same ones back in or is there some other technique to it? Here is one of them removed:

Well. To do it 'properly' you need to have the clearances measured, then compared with the colour-code chart in the manual which will give you the bearing size. There's 4 (or5?) to choose from to allow for variations in manufacturing. It can get a bit complicated for those of us that don't do it much, and I've heard of guys having success with just "going for the yellow" bearings. I'm lucky enough to have an engine-rebuilding friend with all the gear and knowledge, so I took advantage of that  ;D

Just had one of the locals here go through this with his 400-f, and he ended up with something like 3 sets of yellow, 2 brown (or something ???)

Not sure what you want to do with any of this info, but have fun  ;)

cheers
ian
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 27, 2012, 06:14:09
Ian I get the simple green from Bunnings, in the cleaning section. Used to be able to get it in a window cleaning spray bottle but that's not been around for a little while. I get it in a bulk pack at the moment, only about $20.

The finish for the paint is the one you mentioned (cast Alu). Had a look on the VHT distributors website and it looks like its available at all the major car parts places (Auto 1, Repco etc).

Will grab some in the morning. How many cans for the cases? How many  coats?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: bikeboy on Jan 27, 2012, 07:16:33
Thanks Ed, I'll go shopping tomorrow. You should get it done with 1 can, but I'd buy 1 for back-up. Just realized the VHT is a sub- brand of PJ1, which I've just used on my 400 in a satin black. It's even better than the VHT, but harder to source :-(

Cheers
Ian


(probably) Sent from my shed using my iPhone and Tapatalk
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 27, 2012, 07:27:44
I will keep an eye out for the PJ1 then.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 27, 2012, 12:21:22
Case wear is 'pretty normal' when maintainance hasn't been done and tensioner gets burred so can't adjust.
 File off any sharp edges that could fall off in future, dismantle 'horse shoe' part of tensioner, file/grind off the burrs and push pin back in.
 'Grooves' don't seem to make any difference when it moves free. (done several over the years)
 BTW,if you have a small carbide burr for Dremel, it's not a bad idea to remove some of the casting 'flash' inside case
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 27, 2012, 20:49:05
Got my eye on some 14.5" CB900F shocks from an '81 model. Will these fit my 400f?

Also can they be rebuilt? What should I look out for to see if they work or not other than pitting/damage to chrome shafts, damper action?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Kanticoy on Jan 27, 2012, 21:14:59
The swingarm will bottom out on the exhaust bracket on the passenger side before they mount up, they're too long. They also won't clear the chain guard or the sprocket dust cover. They are also non rebuildable. No removable seals.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: eyhonda on Jan 27, 2012, 21:59:22
It worked on my bike but none of those interference points were on mine.  No exhaust bracket, chain guard or sprocket cover.   I had a different front end.  So, in my case, the suspension was in balance.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 27, 2012, 22:38:17
Muffler bracket has been modified to clear the swingarm as the plan was longer shocks from the beginning so no issues there.

The options I have are Hagons or these. I would prefer new better handling shocks but I also love the look of the reservoir. New with a reservoir is a bit pricey for my budget.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 27, 2012, 22:49:48
Got me some paint today ready to do the cases and rest of motor. Barrels and head fins will be black, the rest silver.

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/7137bef0.jpg)

Waiting on my blast cabinet gloves so I can finish the cleanup.

Here are my switch blocks. The actions on some of the parts are pretty rough. Hoping a good clean will get them working like new. Some of the buttons however are well past it. Can you buy these on their own or am I looking at throwing these in the bin?

Left is not too bad:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/a1e846cd.jpg)

Right has damage on all the switches:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/883872b9.jpg)

Plan was to polish them and repaint letters.

Edit:

Got stuck into the cylinder studs. Double nutting them worked until the last 3. So I bent the studs over hoping to twist them out that way but they are still not moving and I am worried I will fatigue the metal and snap them. Anyone got some pointers for me?

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/21a91791.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 28, 2012, 00:20:24
Ball sack! I snapped one :(

How boned am I?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 28, 2012, 00:21:57
Bending the studs wasn't a good move.
Best bet now is to clean around them as much as possible, apply release oil and heat case.
Allow to cool and do it all over.
 Hopefully the heating/cooling will allow release oil to creep down the corrosion
 I would straighten them out, double nut and tap on the tops while trying to unscrew them, use a combination wrench on lower nut. (or two so you can keep nuts locked together)
 May need  couple of tries over a few days, you really don't want to snap or cut them off
 rub some hand soap on the case, if it turns brown, your getting too hot.
 You'll probably need a drill press to get to the one you snapped off, at least 400 cases are relatively easy to do as they are parallel base/split
 BTW, you can full dismantle the switches to polish the alloy
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 28, 2012, 01:34:29
No probs PJ. Will straighten the 2 ones left and hit it with the heat and anti seaze over a few days and then try the double but thing again.

This bike is a nightmare! Everything that could be a pain is. Oh well.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 28, 2012, 02:47:54
If you have a welder, you could put a 17mm nut over the broken stud hole and fill it up with weld.
Quite often works
Don't even THINK about an Easy-Out
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 28, 2012, 03:43:11
If you have a welder, you could put a 17mm nut over the broken stud hole and fill it up with weld.
Quite often works
Don't even THINK about an Easy-Out

Easy-Out is not an option. Used them twice and broken them twice. Completely farked the removal after a HSS Easy-Out is in the pilot hole.

Going to try my luck with these last 2 and if I struggle I am going to send the case out to be done properly by a shop. Don't want to ruin the case so will give it to a pro I think.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Jan 28, 2012, 04:49:47
No probs PJ. Will straighten the 2 ones left and hit it with the heat and anti seaze over a few days and then try the double but thing again.

This bike is a nightmare! Everything that could be a pain is. Oh well.

Since I am not sure if "anti seaze" is Oz-ish for penetrating oil I just wanted to verify...
 Here, Anti-seize" is a lubricating paste that is applied to threads when INSTALLING a bolt to keep it from siezing in the future. It is not for free-ing up an already siezed fastener.
 You want a pentrating oil of some sorts,
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 28, 2012, 05:01:07
Ah ok, sorry for the confusion. I have rust penetrating spray designed to free up oxidized metals.

A simple guide to Oz-ish is to abbreviate everything to "something-o".

Is this instance it would be "seize-o" or "pen-o". Add the odd "fair dinkum" and everyone will think you are a true blue Aussie,
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Jan 28, 2012, 05:47:08
Thanks for the tip... sometimes I feel like I'm in the movie "Snatch" talking to Brad Pitt
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LJw6PAi5Q8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LJw6PAi5Q8)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 28, 2012, 07:18:49
"pikies! I farkin hate pikies!"

Aussies aren't a bad bunch, once you get the lingo down and the obscene level of alcohol/meat consumption, it's easy to integrate.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Jan 28, 2012, 09:12:08
Don't get me wrong... I love it.
I am the slow Yank who doesn't catch on very quick.  ::)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: frogman on Jan 28, 2012, 12:04:24
I know it is generally advised against using these as you don't want to scare up the studs but since you bent them already try to find one of these...

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-2-half-inch-drive-stud-extractor-94640.html (http://www.harborfreight.com/1-2-half-inch-drive-stud-extractor-94640.html)

Put it right down at the case level and see if that gets them out. It will put the torque right there at the threads instead of all the way at the top of the stud, which will twist as you turn it.

Second thought, guess a vice grip would work just as well now as you should be replacing those bent studs anyway.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Staffy on Jan 28, 2012, 19:19:29
and she's terrible partial to the periwinckle blue boys....

See if you can get your hands on some stuff called inox.  I know a lot of people that swear by that stuff as a penetrating liquid.   That stuff would free up two randy rabbits jacked up on smack and viagra any day of the week.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 28, 2012, 19:43:36
Will do Staffy, saw that Inox at Bunnings and thought it was just a WD40 alternative. The "pen-o" ;) doesn't seem to be working anyway even with heat and hammer blows.

If that doesn't work I will take it to somewhere to get it done properly.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 06, 2012, 03:23:04
What a weekend, no Internet and my iPhone crapped itself and needed restoring. Turns out I am not built for a life without modern communications ;)

A good weekend of doing stuff on the bike. Bit more polishing of switch housings. Some of the buttons are broken but I will do some custom jobbies to get them working again. I cleaned one side out and it's working well, I do have 1 spare part though so if anyone has a resource on how they go back together point it out. Left side:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/3e43587c.jpg)

Right side with push pull housing for throttle. I also have another housing for the throttle that is just a pull type. What is standard on the 400F?

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/5f0f8a54.jpg)

Started my swingarm brace with my 2mm 1" tube left over from the frame repair. Don't have a pipe bender so went for death by a thousand cuts. Very happy with the result and it will look great once all the cuts are welded and ground back:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/2f8a22f2.jpg)

Another problem found this weekend. Looks like my swingarm is bent 10mm can anyone confirm? The rear wheel mounts don't appear to be in line with the bike. The right hand side one is 10mm too high too.

What do people think. Do the ends of the swingarm appear to be too far to the left? How can I measure properly?

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/b8b64b12.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/93091e84.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0b822900.jpg)

Tried to tweak it this weekend but zero luck as its built bloody tough. Will need some heavy duty tools if I need to get it back to straight.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Feb 06, 2012, 11:17:54
Put wheel in and check chain line, Rocan had an issue with his 350 and had to cut a chunk out of brace
400f never had single cable, I would use it though  ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Tetter on Feb 06, 2012, 13:51:03
That's an idea !
Never seen a brace on top before though.
Should solve the problems i had foreseen with my CB500 with the chain and brake rod.  ::)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 06, 2012, 18:04:05
Put wheel in and check chain line, Rocan had an issue with his 350 and had to cut a chunk out of brace
400f never had single cable, I would use it though  ;)

Will do PJ, clearance seems pretty good though as I aligned the bottom of the brace where it intersects the chain with the top of the old chain guide. Will do a dry run test fit before I weld it up though.

Will keep the single pull throttle then, not sure why it was put on, it's nicely polished now anyway so it will look pretty.

Any thoughts on how to check if my swingarm is bent?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Feb 06, 2012, 20:04:40
Ends of fork where wheel fits look parallel in pic, the differences in bend are probably normal, I haven't done a 400 for long time though.
 Chain side is often 'straighter' so it doesn't bend when you accelerate (compression as wheel tries to 'pull' forwards)
 A bent tube will spring slightly, more bend, more spring
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: hillsy on Feb 06, 2012, 20:27:52
When you put the wheel and chain back on to check the brace clearance, check the rim is vertical and the chain line for the sprockets is true. If that checks out, the swingarm is fine.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 07, 2012, 04:15:16
No problem. Thanks PJ & hillsy.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Ianmallee on Feb 07, 2012, 06:17:42
Will do Staffy, saw that Inox at Bunnings and thought it was just a WD40 alternative. The "pen-o" ;) doesn't seem to be working anyway even with heat and hammer blows.

If that doesn't work I will take it to somewhere to get it done properly.

Buy a whole bunch of bolts a little smaller then the snapped ones and tig weld onto. Turn and it's out. Painful and slow but best way before you snap easy outs. Had to do that for 2 dozen stripped off another bike
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 11, 2012, 01:40:54
Today was a reasonably successful day. Managed to use a heavy duty press in a family friends workshop and remove the bend out of the swingarm. A big crowbar at the father in laws and we had removed the twist in it too. Should be pretty straight now, only thing left to do is weld up some dents and grind them back and weld on the brace. I suspect the brace is not high enough so I will be getting an off cut of tube to raise it up even more. Shame I have none of the tube left myself as the extra I need is so small. Oh well at least I can put 2 uprights in now.

Also fabricated an Alu rear engine mount to replace the steel one and match the front ones I did:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/a7f9d31a.jpg)

On the bike:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/b636ccc4.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 11, 2012, 01:54:22
Also kicked off my seat build today. Always preferred steel to fibreglass but didn't know how I was going to do the bump stop.

Decided to just start and see where it took me. Used the upside down frame to trace the seat pan out. Cut it out with the angle grinder:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/6211b44d.jpg)

Plan is to weld these bits together at the end with some bracing behind. Next up I needed to bend the sides down, a tough job as I could only do it by hand and in the end I used the angle grinder to help start the process. Here it is post bending with extra long sides so I can trim them back:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/529710b8.jpg)

On the bike:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/ff01b073.jpg)

Next up was cutting the seat pan back further to bend up the rear of the seat area, the plan was to curve it up like Benjie's seats so I used my rear hub to get the curve:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/8105d406.jpg)

Next up was cutting the bent up rear seat section, I used my grinders disc as it was almost the perfect size:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/270e607f.jpg)

A nice line from the tank through to the bump stop:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/80b7fed3.jpg)

Afterwards I cut the first of the segments, made an error here as I really should have made both sides out of 1 piece to minimize the welds, might redo it tomorrow. It needs trimming too as its a bit too wide still:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/06b87405.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/30392a95.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/6e2967ff.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/4933c20e.jpg)

This first section will probably get cut by about half so I have enough room on the end to get a nice rounded end piece. Then need to French in a rear light.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Feb 11, 2012, 19:41:16
Great work man! like it!
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 11, 2012, 23:59:22
Bit more seat work done today. First question was how much of the frame rails do I want to expose. I cut the edge to 1" first as I could always cut again, I do like this look though so it will probably stay at 1":

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/53b05189.jpg)

Just the slightest amount of frame visible and it gives a nice sharp edge to the seat area. Test fit with knee scoops to check the lower lines:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/3902dac0.jpg)

Everything so far:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/309ee695.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/9bd41bfa.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/93704584.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/b0ef0618.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/d5649632.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/9015c6f0.jpg)

I suspect the rear bump is a little on the tall side. It's quite large and seems a little goofy. I was playing with the idea of trimming approx 15mm off the height as most nice looking bumps seem to be slightly shorter than the top of the tank (Bonita Applebum and GoingsMoto's to be precise). Anyone got some inputs? Estimated new line:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/9795244a.jpg)

New shape:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/def64e87.jpg)

Old lines:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/4543d2a4.jpg)

All the electricals and battery will be going in the bump but I plan on getting an antigravity battery so I don't need a huge space.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 12, 2012, 04:50:45
So I went a stage further this evening and mocked up the rear section in cardboard and masking tape to see exactly what each of the options above looked like. Needless to say I think it is waaay to big in its current form, it looks like the right height is shaving a good 30-40mm off the height as it is now. Took some photo's and did some jigging in Photoshop to see what the end result would look like:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/RearBumpStopMockUp.jpg)

I think the smaller version looks much better. What are people's thoughts? Is there a standard height for a bump seat? I feel I could even shave a bit more height off.

What about my seat area, is it too long/ok?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Feb 12, 2012, 09:47:06
That it was too high was my initial thoughts, then I read that you thought it matched the tank so I let it go. your "after" looks better to me, the seat height will change when you add the foam, might be about right. ;)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 12, 2012, 17:53:50
Swivel, thanks for the smack down, I had to get a few tissues to wipe the tears as I read.

I am pretty comfortable with most of the choices I have made but was wondering what peoples thoughts were on 2 comments you made.

1. Are there genuine concerns about the top triple? If there are I will look at a proper flat aftermarket one.

2. Are the Alu frame braces an issue? Stock steel width is about 1.2mm and the Alu is 3mm. Again happy to use the stock ones and get them powdered with the frame, but was going to polish these. Don't want the motor to move though.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: hillsy on Feb 12, 2012, 19:44:14
I've made heaps of chain gaurds out of aluminium. No problem there - and better than plastic IMO.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 12, 2012, 20:00:59
OK now it's getting confusing. I cannot see the issue with an Al chain guard, are you being critical of everything just for the sake of it?

The top triple I am happy to know the risks, but I think you might be being a little critical when you question my choice of material for a chain guard.

Can you keep your feedback about genuine concerns? That way I can ensure I focus on addressing those.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Feb 12, 2012, 20:29:58
Neevo, check this out.
http://www.denoonsp.com/user/image/cb400f-stress-analysis.pdf
There is virtually no movement around engine cradle, it's all on steering head top tube
Thanks to Rick for the analysis.
http://www.denoonsp.com/user/image/cb400f-stress-analysis.pdf
He has a LOT of information on 400f
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 12, 2012, 21:20:51
Maybe take this conversation somewhere else. Keen to keep this thread on track.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Feb 12, 2012, 22:37:35
Maybe take this conversation somewhere else. Keen to keep this thread on track.

Done and , done, I removed the posts as irrelevant but left the Denoon one with links
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Feb 13, 2012, 01:42:15
That top triple will be fine as long as it's welded up to fill the holes. In reality the top triple doesn't take a lot of force and doesn't need to be anywhere near as thick and heavy as people think.  They do need to be 'complete" though.  By that I mean that they have to be ribbed to have strength so if a hole cuts through a rib, the part is weaker than stock.

Check out a TZ250 top clamp - it's more air than metal, but the metal is in the right places. If you want the triples to be stiffer, replace the lower one - that's the one that takes most of the forces in normal riding situations.

And plastic is fine for a chain guard. 

No champions told me I was wonderful, but I did stay at a Holiday In Express last night..................
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 13, 2012, 03:27:21
Done and , done, I removed the posts as irrelevant but left the Denoon one with links

Thanks PJ, amazing how a cat amongst the pigeons can stir things up.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 15, 2012, 19:25:49
PJ? I have been using this guide to see what tyres can go on different rims.

http://www.dropbears.com/u/utilities/tyrerim.htm

I am looking at 90x90 for the front and 120x80 for the rear, does it matter what rims I put these on?

Buchanans doesn't do a WM4 and I would have liked to put the rubber on WM3 and WM4, could I use WM3 and WM4.5 without adverse affects?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Feb 15, 2012, 23:14:44
I probably wouldn't have that much size difference front to rear.
 With WM3 (2.15") & WM4.5,(2.75") go 100 f and 120 r.
 I have no idea how it will handle though ;D
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 16, 2012, 04:33:48
Thanks PJ. It's a big thing buying the rims, they are incredibly expensive with anodizing and SS spokes. Don't want to bugger it up.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: eyhonda on Feb 16, 2012, 10:30:34
You should try and ping the 400f guys about rim and tire sizes.  (yahoo group - I was one of the earlier guys on that group)   Or even 350 twin guys.   It's a similar chassis.   

http://www.eurospares.com/tires.htm (http://www.eurospares.com/tires.htm)

You can go WM3 front and back (and save some $$).    For tires, you can go 90 and 110.      It's better to go with a size that handles better rather than just go as big as possible for cosmetic or appearance reasons.    I guess it depends what you want to do.   If you want to go railing around corners, rim and tire sizes choices will be more critical.    Going too big will affect handling.    Just MHO.

I've built a few wheels in my past.    Whenever I did, I always searched ebay, cl, etc for used ones.   Borrani, Akront, DID all made wm3 alloy rims.   Heck, they even came stock on early XS650 rear.    I've never bought a new one.     Get a used one and polish it or have it polished.   I always went with WM3 rims since that size is so plentiful.   

I did buy new stainless spokes only because they were thicker than stock.   If going with the old ones, just blast them and get them zinc plated.    Honda went with bigger gauge spokes on bigger bikes.   So, if the length is correct, you can use spokes from a 550, 750, etc.

I'm not sure if I missed it or not, but did you install tapered roller bearings for the steering stem and bronze bushings in the swingarm?   These should be essential since they are the main pivot points from the frame front and rear.

Eric
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Feb 16, 2012, 11:42:40
We already went through the rim sizes
 I recommended getting 36 hole WM3 front and back then fitting 90/90 and 110/ (80~90)
 They are available much cheaper than Buchanan prices
Buchanan's will make sure everything matches if you buy from hem though, may have to do a few mods if getting mismatched parts, plus, remember, it all has to be shipped to Oz.
400F frame is a lot more like CB360 frame than 350 twin
 Did you get oil pump yet?
 I'll pull the one off 'ded' CB350F and check it in next few days
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 16, 2012, 17:32:27
Eric the bike is getting taper bearings and bronze swingarm bushes.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 16, 2012, 17:37:04
PJ, will probably get them off Buchanans as they know their stuff and the quality seems top notch.

No oil pump yet, funds are very low and I bought some carbs off eBay as I didn't want to miss out on a set. Not many come up and the same seller had another set that hadn't been cleaned that I snapped up.

Trying to accumulate parts now so that I can build in 1 go rather than tiny bits here and there.

Just fabricating stuff at the moment like my seat and tank. Will be welding up soon, then need to get forks fixed and cam issue sorted.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ducatiboy on Feb 17, 2012, 16:23:02
Quote
It's a big thing buying the rims, they are incredibly expensive with anodizing and SS spokes. Don't want to bugger it up.

Hey Neevo! Too right mate! Having just ordered 2 alloy rims I've found the most important requirement has been the ability to grit your teeth and just do it!! The pain is only temporary (assuming you can avoid marital breakdown in the process) but the wheels will last a long, long time and the pleasure you will get every time you walk into the garage and see your awesome bike sitting there waiting to be ridden hard...well, what price can you put on that!? It's almost like you can't afford NOT to do it 8)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 17, 2012, 18:51:28
The real pain is less about the cost, although they are bloody expensive! It's more about getting the right width, wide enough for the look I want without compromising safety/handling.

I have no real plans to go racing around on the bike too much but it's good to be able to if you want :)

Like you said ducatiboy I just need to order the stuff, then make it work. The WM3 WM4.5 combo takes the tyres ok that fit on the bike, fingers crossed there are no rubbing/handling issues. Don't have another $400 to fix any issues.

At least I can admire the beauty in the garage, even if it is unsafe to ride ;)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 19, 2012, 03:16:02
Carbs have been acquired!!! Found a set of 350F carbs on eBay that I snapped up. They look in good condition and the plan is to strip them, clean them up and put back together with fresh o-rings and jets.

Can anyone suggest some places for carb bits? Should I buy a rebuild kit? What about needles and jets? They will be installed on a 466 kitted motor with shorty muffler.

Also I have a question about vapour blasting. I've found someone local who is incredibly well priced. He will be getting the carb bodies and engine cases. What should I do with the parts afterwards? I was going to leave the carb bodies as they were but I had planned on painting the cases natural Alu. Is this needed?

I want to keep the parts looking clean and like they have just come out of the mold. Thoughts are appreciated.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 20, 2012, 07:48:56
Eugh swivel, not what I wanted to hear. What are 466 kit people doing?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Feb 20, 2012, 17:45:01
It will run, it's not a race bike.
 You could get them bored,it's easy enough.
 Find local model engineer, little mill and fly-cutter will work.
Not as fast as CNC set up but not impossible.
 Just make sure they don't touch bottom of carb bore (just make slightly wider and higher)
Width can be 1mm smaller than slide diameter, height, level with bottom edge of slide at full throttle
I've run 490cc motors with stock 400 carbs (56mm bore)
Lot more torque, wheelies easy without touching clutch lever in second
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: eyhonda on Feb 20, 2012, 18:00:15
Don't forget Rick D, who can bores 400f carbs.   Pricey but cheaper than new CR's.   Can bore them to 24mm oval bores.

http://www.denoonsp.com/services-1.htm (http://www.denoonsp.com/services-1.htm)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Feb 20, 2012, 20:12:08
Hey people, Neevo is in Australia, it probably isn't practical to ship carbs to Canada.
 I don't know if the 250's mentioned are available in Oz? they don't exist in USA,Honda couldn't sell enough 600 Hornets to be viable, 250 has no chance
 Stop being so damn 'local yokel', www. is WORLD wide web
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: hillsy on Feb 20, 2012, 20:19:24
CBR250 or Hornet carbs won't work on a 400f because those engines have the wrong intake port angle. Putting them on a horizontal port motor like the 400f would result in the fuel pouring back out into the airbox / pods.
 
Just stick with the 350 carbs mate - it will work OK  ;)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 21, 2012, 01:56:44
Yeah I think I will rejet the 350 carbs and see if they are still lacking. Sure I can get them bored if required.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 24, 2012, 02:46:41
Bought me another sheet of steel during the week with the plan of finishing the seat panels:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/68882100.jpg)

Also bought some 5mm plate which is going to replace the frame bracing and also act as the frame for the seat:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/7cfdce8c.jpg)

Cut and positioned:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/e5f42404.jpg)

The original brace is just there to stop the frame rails spreading, it will be removed once the new ones are put in. I plan on welding some nuts under the braces so I can drill through and attach the seat with some rubber washers in between and some flat headed bolts.

Also re did the seat section from my new sheet metal so it was made from 1 piece rather than 2:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/64880c64.jpg)

A very kind friend is going to help me weld my frame this weekend for the price of Wild Turkey cans. Will be doing the following:

1. Hoop
2. Lower frame repair
3. Rear frame repair
4. Reattaching side stand
5. Under frame rail tray
6. Nuts on seat braces
7. Seat braces

May also try and tack weld the seat a little so making the compound curve is a little easier :)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 24, 2012, 03:53:59
Swivel I agree about the holes and the original brace had a huge hole in it do that sounds like a good option.

My question is about the suggestion on where to brace, the original was no where near that far back so wondering how different my plan is. Also I am keen to have the extra height by welding on top of the rails, any suggestions on how I can achieve this other than welding another 5mm plate on top?

Here's stock:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/c3afb695.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 24, 2012, 05:32:56
No probs Swivel. My brace is a little wider to cover where the shocks mount to reduce any potential flex there.

Hadn't thought about triangulation in the frame sections, is flex normally an issue there?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Tim on Feb 24, 2012, 09:33:19
Maybe I need to drill some holes in mine :)  My bike vibrates like an SOB.

On my XS it was recommended to add bracing between the side plates of the frame that carry the swingarm and the center tube of the frame to reduce flex in this area.  You can see the two tubes added in the bottom pic.

(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/CB550F/XS650/XS650Project20090418009.jpg)
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/CB550F/XS650/XS650Project20080611013.jpg)
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/CB550F/XS650/XS650Project20080610001.jpg)
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/CB550F/XS650/IMG_7480.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Feb 24, 2012, 12:04:04
2x1 box section would be stronger and lighter.
 The front of seat/tank tubes are where the major flex happens and that is mainly coming from steering head area.
 Go back to the link and look at the pics, red is 'bad' blue is 'OK'
http://www.denoonsp.com/cb400f-frame-bracing.htm (http://www.denoonsp.com/cb400f-frame-bracing.htm)


 Tim, do you have enough clearance between swing arm and brace for drive chain?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Feb 24, 2012, 18:17:01
The original 'plate' is pressed to give it some strength/stiffness.
 Flat plate will not be rigid and will flex.

Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 25, 2012, 02:40:44
5mm actually Swivel, I think it's going to help to stiffen up the frame rails especially with 3 of them!

Passed a milestone today, went to see my chum Juha who helped me with the first round of welding. I now have a complete frame with no cuts or damaged sections:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/879969fa.jpg)

Side stand frame rail fixed:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/b72e31ad.jpg)

Rear frame rail fixed:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/d44dc3d3.jpg)

Just grinding back the welds so it's neat when it finally gets powdercoated.

Also welded in the 3 frame rail braces, started with 2 but I was worried about flex in the seat as its only 1.5mm thick sheet metal, so an extra brace went in. The seat will sit on 6 rubber feet, 4 of which will have a bolt through them.

Braces, rear hoop and under tray welded on too:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/ba5a47aa.jpg)

Under tray:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/e4b6b7fb.jpg)

I was going to weld nuts to the underside of the braces for the seat to mount into, but Juha had these rivet in style threads, awesome!!!!!!! And replaceable too if the threads get damaged:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/4926e20e.jpg)

Tack welded the new lower profile seat bump too and cut off the excess, starting to look good:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/f412d8eb.jpg)

Gratuitous shots with the tank:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/12da030f.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/77ce65e6.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/e62d735f.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/b3f3db9e.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/4429a4f3.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/008f85c1.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 25, 2012, 04:24:08
Swivel any tips for tidying up the other welds around the tray? I want the welds to look tidy once it's powdered and I hear the powder is not as forgiving as I would hope.

I hit it with a sanding disc but it was hard to get it perfect because of the edge if the tray and curve of the frame rail.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 25, 2012, 05:18:45
Fair point about doing things the hard way, however I have never done anything like this before so I am making it up as I go along.

I definitely want to powder it though as I want a super gloss black all over the frame. Thanks for the sanding tips on the frame rails, currently using an orbital air tool which is fine on the rails but not very good on the welds on the tray.

The powder will be the last thing to happen, to make sure everything is good and no mods are needed. Don't want to be buggering about with a powdered frame as it would need to be done again.

Looking to build the bike up, get it roadworthy, then strip and powder and reassemble.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 25, 2012, 05:22:20
Will be scrapping the bends in the swingarm brace too, cutting out the straight sections and replacing the curves with pre bent sections. Will also be getting some extra tube to lift it up a bit more and add some strengthening sections on the sides too.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 25, 2012, 05:51:17
Heard it loud and clear re the chain clearance. Currently the brace is at the top of the old chain guard but I was keen to still run a lite guard and so will be lifting the brace about another inch, hence the extra tube needed.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Feb 25, 2012, 11:05:15
Swivel I agree about the holes and the original brace had a huge hole in it do that sounds like a good option.

Here's stock:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/c3afb695.jpg)

 You need to realise why that brace is there.
 It has minimal capabilities to prevent rear frame twisting, it mainly stops the two tubes spreading apart.
If you want/need more height for seat base, use 2x1 box, and cut a corners off to bridge frame, it will add stiffness and prevent tubes spreading.
 I'll get pics of my 360
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 25, 2012, 17:49:27
I think I've got what I need at the moment PJ. The 5mm plate is welded back in the same place and stops the spread, adds some extra strength to the rear to stop any twisting under load and also adds the prefect height for my seat.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 26, 2012, 00:07:19
More progress. Thought I would tackle the rear bump compound curve as the section before it had been tacked. Here is what I was going for, mocked up in cardboard and masking tape:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/06d9ae26.jpg)

Cut me some 1.5mm sheet:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/464da9e5.jpg)

Started shaping using the front hub to maintain an even curve:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/c0eb4685.jpg)

Decided to employ some maths:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/430f58a3.jpg)

... But the difference hurt my brain so I thought I would go the freestyle route. Divided the curve into 8 even sections:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/cc18cfc2.jpg)

Took a while to get these 2 pretty close, it was important as it needed to perfectly match the hoop already on the seat:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/5defe214.jpg)

Put a brace in the bottom to keep the required 215mm spread:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/04dfdacc.jpg)

6 leaves done:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/7ebd020a.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/79d94210.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/431fb723.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/31c8f2cc.jpg)

8 done:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/25402dbd.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/82107028.jpg)

Then it was split apart and the first 2 leaves were perfectly matched in length and bend to match the tacked on section already on the seat. Here it is back off the bike next to the mock up:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/ffd3ace5.jpg)

Back on the bike. Lastly need to trim the seat lower strip as its a little too long. Should be easy to do once it starts getting tacked:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/24c7c161.jpg)

Quite pleased. Lastly will be getting a round mallet to shape the rear bump a little once I get it back from welding, should minimize the amount of bog required to get the curve smooth.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 26, 2012, 05:46:16
Rethinking the curve section so probably going to scrap this version. Reason being; the flat section is too wide and a bit goofy looking, I didn't think about the effects of having 2 flat sections and looking at the bumps I like are much shorter and mostly curve.

I can't do shorter but I can reduce the amount of flat section.

Oh well it was a good proof of concept. Might trim down the flat section already tacked a big too to make the whole thing a little sleeker looking.

Anyone got any thoughts?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 28, 2012, 21:11:25
Oh yeah! Gifts from the USPS:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/eeb32279.jpg)

Going to be stripping them and replacing worn out parts. They look great on the outside, needle and slide action is smooth, choke works well although some of the adjusters are a little "unstraight". The slide arms are a little wobbly though where they join the main body, is this normal? It's causing them to not be 100% straight:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/be8b5200.jpg)

Anyone got a good guide to refurbishing these things?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Feb 28, 2012, 21:17:07
Those top caps should be tight.
 They should have a springs and a couple of 'sockets' to fit the ball on the lever that lifts the slides
It's simple enough, as you will see when you take is apart
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 28, 2012, 21:48:59
Got it, thanks PJ. These are a bit more involved than my KTM single carb. Is there any process to breaking them down or just start stripping and keep the parts seperate for each carb?

Also the 3 barbs in the middle I assume are the 2 air vents for each pair and also a single fuel line in. Do you know what size fuel/air line to us for each of these?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Feb 28, 2012, 22:58:50
I would pull the brass cap nuts off first, seeing as how they are already loose
then start at one end and keep everything in separate baggies
1/4"bore  fuel line should be fine, breather lines are 3mm or 4mm
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 29, 2012, 03:32:18
Was pretty easy in the end. Figured out how it goes together and managed to get the rear frame off as well as each carb apart. Checked each float bowl and its not too bad inside each one, bit of corrosion on each of the main jet tower (or whatever its called) and also a bit on the float pin towers but nothing that looks like its going to break soon.

I am stripping the carbs for vapour blasting, is it best to leave the carbs whole or literally take everything off and have each component vapour blasted (like all the levers etc)?

Also looking for a needle/jet kit as well as a rebuild kit. Saw a Sigma kit on eBay, anyone got reports on this? I need to jet it appropriately for the 466 kit as the carbs are originally off a 350F, so I plan on changing out everything.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 29, 2012, 03:52:12
N.B.those o-rings that connect the fuel feed tubes are not plain material,they are a material called viton I believe.

No problem, they appear in really good condition however the fit into the carb bosy is not that tight, should it be? Any where I can get replacement orings for the fuel tubes or do they come in the rebuild kits?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MotorbikeBruno on Feb 29, 2012, 11:17:40
Two points:

#1 there is no guarantee that the o-rings that come in kits are as fuel resistant as the OEM material ones.

#2 Don't throw out the old old o-rings.You may be able to match them up with ones from a specialist automotive supplier of o-rings or a carb service shop..........

The needles and gaskets that come in aftermarket kits may be O.K.

Honda might still be able to supply those o-rings new.If you go to CMSNL and look at the parts book it may list the o-ring size if Y have to seek another source.

I've always found the fuel supply tubes and o-rings are a bit wobbly and loose in the carb body.Spooks me,but they seem to never leak in my experience.

+1000 to this ^^ 
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 01, 2012, 03:34:09
Great, thanks.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 01, 2012, 05:27:36
Big blow today. Been saving my pennies to buy my rims/spokes, got a quote from Buchanans at $800, the most expensive parts on the bike but worth the dosh.

Popped my cases into a local shop to have the snapped stud removed and 2 others that wouldn't budge. They were much tougher than expected and had to be drilled and timeserted... The pain was a whopping $300!

Looks like the wheel buying has been pushed back a few months. Whaaaaaaaaaaaa :(
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 01, 2012, 06:49:49
Plenty of time to decide while throwing quarters into a big jar in the corner.

Your not wrong... got bought a sealed big money box can for Xmas. Putting the $ coins in that hoping to fill it up and pay for some of the big stuff.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Mar 01, 2012, 10:33:43
I always used Richards Brothers, but they only seem to do complete wheels nowadays
Central wheel doesn't seem to be any cheaper than Buchanan's for components (although the 20% VAT bumps the price severely)
 It would be about $8~$10 cheaper for unpolished stainless, polished, more expensive than Buchanans
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Mar 01, 2012, 10:59:55
I know, but even after knocking 20% off it's no cheaper
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: eyhonda on Mar 01, 2012, 12:42:53
Yeah, way steep!   With all the labor you're putting in this bike, just DIY the wheels.   Buy the spokes new and find the rims used.  They're out there.   Should get it for half, at least.   

Don't be afraid to lace and true wheels.   The fear is not having done it.   Once you do it, it's not that bad.   I think there are more difficult tasks in bike building than lacing and truing wheels.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Mar 01, 2012, 13:10:23
I agree, in my opinion,painting is a lot more difficult to get right (particularly when you don't have the facilities  ;) )
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: eyhonda on Mar 01, 2012, 13:20:13
I agree, in my opinion,painting is a lot more difficult to get right (particularly when you don't have the facilities  ;) )

Yes, but quite satisfying (when done right)!

Like Swivel said, every day is school.    Add lacing and truing to your class schedule!    That's why you're here - to get help from the community....

I love it when someone asks about my wheels and I'll tell them I built them myself.    :o
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 01, 2012, 17:33:52
Definitely lacing and truing myself, done it on dirtys a few times so not afraid to have a go. $800 was parts alone.

I have come to the conclusion that I can do things just as well as a pro, mostly a lot cheaper too. I take much longer though!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: eyhonda on Mar 02, 2012, 10:36:38
I like Lester type mags too!   But it depends on the look Mr Neevo wants.   With mags, you just jumped from the 70's to the 80's.

Looks like that last picture of a 400f had other pricey goodies too!  Alloy swingarm and Yosh exhaust!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: eyhonda on Mar 02, 2012, 10:53:34
I don't tell anyone what to do,I just illustrate options.

Sorry if it sounded like I implied that.  No.  I feel the same, giving suggestions.   These are all good suggestions.  We'll see what Mr Neevo ends up with.

I like the black Lesters.    Sometimes, I feel torn between vintage and modern.   Some bikes blur that line.    Also, I spy some old Koni's on that bike.   They are NLA and now called Ikons.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Mar 02, 2012, 12:05:02
That's a 550, clutch cover is different on 500f
 BTW, Isn't it PETER Williams? with the 'W' on helmet
http://www.peterwilliamsracing.com/book.html (http://www.peterwilliamsracing.com/book.html)

"Peter’s engineering designs gave him advantage on the race track and set the trends for what motorcycles are today. He was one of the first to design and race with disc brakes, the first in the world to design and use cast magnesium wheels and tubeless tyres. Peter won the 1970 500cc class British Championship and was the first in motorcycle racing to benefit from tobacco sponsorship. The 1973 John Player Norton 'Monocoque' incorporated all his previous experiments and the first twin spar frame. The pinnacle of his career came on this machine when he won the Formula 750 TT in the Isle of Man with record race and lap speeds."
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Mar 02, 2012, 13:40:49
Heh... Heh
You said Peter.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 02, 2012, 23:07:25
The plan is definitely spokes, I just prefer the look. I know I could do cheaper than Buchanans but the quality is there and I am not sticking to stock sizes. At least they will look good a last ages.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 02, 2012, 23:16:34
So the plan for this weekend was to redo the bump stop section to get rid of the extra long flat bit and also tidy up the tank holes in preparation for welding in the panels. I have signed up to the Sydney Cafe Racers Facebook page and found someone with a TIG welder that is going to help me get the seat and tank finished.

Had 2 goes at the bump stop today... the first ended up in the rubbish bin, the angles weren't working as I was keeping one side straight and curving the other for each leaf as per the original version. It turned into a shit fight so I came up with a more mathematics based solution:

1. Cut out sheet metal and mark up 10 leaves (2 of these will be cut off at the end leaving me with a fully curved rear section):

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/d22e4124.jpg)

2. Cut a curve on each leaf side. Didn't have a compass so ended up using a length of masknig tape stuck to my pen, it worked out ok):

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/361f5205.jpg)

You can see the difference in the leaves between the old version and new version:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/bfc3adb9.jpg)

3. Carefully bend them and mount it on the bike to get a look:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/ed30a6bd.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/dd373414.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/d17b735a.jpg)

I think it looks 10x better than the old one :)

I also mounted the engine (now with studs removed :)) and thought I would test fit the motor and carbs to get some thoughts around how I am going to get fuel out of the tank (as I have cut the original tap mount when I cut the knee scoops):

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/17aedd9f.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/03742466.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 02, 2012, 23:24:40
Here's my plan for the tank, let me know your thoughts. I am going to weld on 2 x 1/4" nuts to the outside of the tank, pointing out, one higher than the other. See below for rough placement:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/6d7ca87d.jpg)

Get a couple of these off eBay so that I can get 2 x 6mm barbs facing towards the rear of the bike:

(http://file.seekpart.com/productsimage/2011/11/9/2011119154950668s.jpg)

The upper one will be the main fuel feed and the lower one will be the reserve as it will pick up fuel lower. Run some braided 6mm fuel line to the rear and find a 2 input/1 output fuel petcock/tap. Run a filter on the output into the carbs.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51lmH0fuMXL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

What do people think? Are there 2 input/1 output fuel taps that I can mount and look nice?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Mar 02, 2012, 23:34:57
There were several bikes in the 80's that had remote fuel taps.
Last bike I remember 'recently' having remote with 2 inlets, one out is Suzuki Intruder.
 Should be able to find one of those as they were made up until a few years ago plus, had a 22yr (?) production run
The last ones had tap mounted in tank, this is from earlier one
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUZUKI-VS1400-VS-1400-INTRUDER-FUEL-PETCOCK-COCK-VALVES-1987-2009-44300-38B02-/120857282066?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c23a7c612&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUZUKI-VS1400-VS-1400-INTRUDER-FUEL-PETCOCK-COCK-VALVES-1987-2009-44300-38B02-/120857282066?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c23a7c612&vxp=mtr)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/88-Yamaha-FZR-1000-Good-Working-Petcock-Fuel-Switch-/300638475247?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item45ff7313ef&vxp=mtr
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 02, 2012, 23:46:23
There were several bikes in the 80's that had remote fuel taps.
Last bike I remember 'recently' having remote with 2 inlets, one out is Suzuki Intruder.
 Should be able to find one of those as they were made up until a few years ago plus, had a 22yr (?) production run
The last ones had tap mounted in tank, this is from earlier one
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUZUKI-VS1400-VS-1400-INTRUDER-FUEL-PETCOCK-COCK-VALVES-1987-2009-44300-38B02-/120857282066?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c23a7c612&vxp=mtr

That external tap looks spot on! I will keep my eye out for an intruder tap then, looks pretty too and even has a mount hole! Perfect, thanks PJ. What about the plan for getting the fuel to the tap, any issues there?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Mar 02, 2012, 23:47:25
Just put up FZR 1000 link.
The Suzuki one looks nicer as it's for a 'cruiser'
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 02, 2012, 23:53:01
Yeah your right, Intruder one is waaay more aesthetic. Its going to be visible with such an empty rear frame so I will look for a decent one of those. Cheers for the PM.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: sinbad85 on Mar 03, 2012, 09:47:17
it just took me over an hour to read up on this whole build!
ADDICTED.
great stuff so far for a first build.... im in sydney too.
dont stop with this until you're riding it!
keep it up.
ps.....my fuel tap was leaking the other day.......so glad i noticed it when i did.
i dont think i wouldve been able to tell if it was at the front....
plus it would suck to go up a steep hill and be runnin dry....choking....
front mount fuel tap would be great downhill......but downhill you can always roll.
plus easier to gain reserve whilst riding

peace.... james
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 03, 2012, 22:17:35
Didn't think about how the placement would be affected with hills, thanks for the heads up gents.

Swivel can you explain your suggestion about extending the knee cutouts a little bit more, I don't 100% understand.

Good point re the braided fuel lines too, they would rub the crap out of the tank... so will go for the normal stuff. Will look out for the brand you mentioned.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Mar 04, 2012, 00:44:37
Get some 1/4" steel tube, drill couple of holes about mid way along base, 90 degree bend, weld in and connect fuel lines to tube then to remote tap.
 I wouldn't use screw in fittings, too bulky.
 Just use all metal automotive style inline filters (they are about $10.00 US around here, probably similar in Oz as they are all made in the same Chinese factory  ;D )
 Get some heat shield off eBay, cover entire base of tank
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Frankenfe on Mar 04, 2012, 01:30:23
Heh... Heh
You said Peter.

I was catching up on this thread and got this far and spit my drink all over..... subscribed
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 04, 2012, 02:27:02
PJ would a single bead of weld be enought to hold the tube into the tank? The wall is not that thick.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 04, 2012, 02:40:43
Some of you may remember my tank was a little dented, this was discovered when I cut the sides and found a huge dent pushed in. I punched it out with a hammer and knocked a huge chunk of bog out.

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/1ed932ce.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/851961a1.jpg)

You can see the big dent on the side and also a smaller one on the top corner. Now for some reason I don't want any fibreglass or bog on this bike, I think metal is a bit more durable and seems more "proper". This is probably why I am trying weird techniques to build my bump seat.

Well today I had an idea to minimize the amount of bog required to fix the tank based on plumbing. I went to my local hardware store and bought some flux and found some special solder for automotive fixes. I got the technique pretty quick and was able to build up layer after layer of solder, hitting it with a bit more heat every now and then to get it to flow.

I am sure Swivel will show me where I went wrong ;) but fingers crossed this is an acceptable fix. A quick once over with the air sander and it's as smooth as a babies bottom. Will take a super thin amount of bog to get rid of the bubble holes and finish it off. Here's the pics:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/62d4f0d3.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/017dcca2.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/e54768e9.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 04, 2012, 03:48:11
Will do Swivel, got to weld the side panels and fuel outlets first, then will get it pressure tested before applying bog and getting it painted.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Mar 04, 2012, 12:06:16
Stock tanks have just single bead holding pipe in, some are soldered in (I found out when welding on a Suzuki tank  ;D )
Some have a brace on standpipe for reserve (just a thin piece of sheet to inside of tank to prevent flexing)
You can fit pipes before doing sides
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Mar 04, 2012, 14:54:57
Heh... Heh
You said Peter.
I was catching up on this thread and got this far and spit my drink all over..... subscribed

My wife hates it when I do that shit. I even do it in the conference room here at work in those long ass boring meetings just to get a rise outta the Plant Manager. ;)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 05, 2012, 03:20:43
Stock tanks have just single bead holding pipe in, some are soldered in (I found out when welding on a Suzuki tank  ;D )
Some have a brace on standpipe for reserve (just a thin piece of sheet to inside of tank to prevent flexing)
You can fit pipes before doing sides

Got it. There a few Alu barbs on eBay with a large base, seem perfect for drilling a hole and welding/brazing around the hole. What do you think? Should be easy to position with the sides off. These:

http://bit.ly/zQ0INE
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 05, 2012, 03:55:38
Yeah steel would be much better but I can't find one anywhere. Could I weld the Alu barb to the steel tank with a TIG?

You know that I soldered the dent in the tank don't you, I assume I could solder the barb but not sure on how strong it would be vs welding.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Mar 05, 2012, 06:49:04
You could solder brass fittings too, much easier than aluminum, and should be easier to find.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 05, 2012, 07:27:18
You could solder brass fittings too, much easier than aluminum, and should be easier to find.

Funny, I bought a couple off eBay to test out. Will report how I go and look at soldering them in. Cheers all.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Mar 05, 2012, 12:29:01
You could have used copper or brass plumbing /fish tank fittings or just plain tube and 'swaged' the end (copper would be easiest, just soften and use a ball bearing to open up end)
Your going to need a standpipe for the 'normal' feed line (about 1-1/5"~2" tall sticking up inside tank)
The 'flush' fitting will then be reserve
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 05, 2012, 18:53:32
Got it, thanks PJ, was going to braze in an extension inside the tank with a cross brace inside to stop flex. Might do that with 6mm copper pipe if I can find it.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 11, 2012, 04:27:23
General malarkey today. Fabricated up some spacers for the ignition so it's not so tall above the triple, also created a plate for mounting the ignition and starter buttons. The single dial will be mounted on the strip in the middle:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/730840cb.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/09ca76ea.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0724f722.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/734c0640.jpg)

Not sure I like the holes. I might redo it at some point.

Also sanded and polished the outsides of the front hub ready for turning the ridges and new spokes and rims:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/9a2b4bd2.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Apr 07, 2012, 00:47:00
I am toying with the idea of getting rid of the ignition, anyone suggest otherwise?

I like the position but it's too bloody tall even with my spacers. I like the fact it keeps the steering lock though.

Been on holiday for past 2 weeks and bought a few goodies:

1. Oil pan (my drain hole is damaged on old one with a bad repair)
2. Clutch cover (something punched through the old one, another dodgy repair)
3. Yet another oil pump (trying to make just 1 good one with decent rotors)
4. CBR F3 front calipers :)

Got plans to scrap the old caliper as mine is rusted solid and a replacement is mega $$$. Plan to see if I can fab up some carriers, go dual disc with trailing modern calipers and modern discs all for less than the cost of buying a replacement CB caliper front. Watch this space...
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Apr 07, 2012, 03:23:32
Have you picked a seat up while on holiday?
 I heard you can get them 'on site' for lot less, $50~$75
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Apr 07, 2012, 03:42:25
Nah, stubbornly pursuing my own creation much to Swivel's annoyance ;)

Actually thinking about stretching the tank too, making the seat a little shorter, either in the seat or hump area (a more compact look).

Saw a video of Lossa Engineering stretching a tank by welding in rods in each corner and filling in with sheet metal. I think an extra 1" - 2" on my tank would make all the difference but not sure if it's waaaaaaaaaaay beyond what I can realistically achieve.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Apr 08, 2012, 05:28:49
So the build is not really moving forward, roadblock is trying to save for my spokes and rims :(

I need to make sure I don't chew through the cash I have saved for the wheels but I am changing the way I am approaching this build from now on.

New plan is to do the best job possible rather than going top of the line on everything. This means I will be painting a few pieces myself instead of powdercoating. Was going to spray my triples with the black VHT paint I bought and bake them in the oven, will that work?

Also planning on fixing the bike from the front back so that I finish sections rather than going all over the place. Hope to get things finished to keep the momentum going.

So 2 questions:

1. Will VHT work on the upper and lower triples? Do I need to mask off the inner fork surfaces?
2. Buying fork seals and dust boots. There are 2 types of dust boot on eBay, standard and fork seal type. Not sure which to get and what would look better too. Leaning towards the stock type. Anyone got any thoughts?

Deciding not to stretch the tank for the moment too. Bit too much work.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Apr 08, 2012, 12:08:50
VHT will work but you'll probably end up divorced if you use house oven  ;D
Mask where axle/clamp fits and the top where seal is going, it's easier than trying to clean of later
 Personally, I like the inset type when they are available but they may not look right when forks are designed for the 'fit over' boots
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Apr 08, 2012, 23:22:37
VHT will work but you'll probably end up divorced if you use house oven  ;D
Mask where axle/clamp fits and the top where seal is going, it's easier than trying to clean of later

How much will it smoke, how long will it take me to get rid of the smell?

Can you explain the masking bit, cannot work out which bits you are refering to. I was going to simply mask off the steering stem and paint the rest (even inside surfaces where fork legs go), let me know if I have this wrong.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Apr 09, 2012, 03:39:20
Ha HA nice  love that your still willing to brave the wrath of the wife, how long? how bad? LOL
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Apr 09, 2012, 04:00:28
Ha HA nice  love that your still willing to brave the wrath of the wife, how long? how bad? LOL

I was thinking its probably a big mistake you could get away with once, pleading ignorance of course ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Apr 09, 2012, 12:30:36
Don't paint anything that's going to be clamping parts together.
Thin coat of etch primer is OK, but anything else will act as lubricant
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Apr 14, 2012, 06:27:00
Covered in my other thread, but thought I would mention some exciting developments (there will be 2 of them):

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/Neevo_1.jpg)

Only half of it, got some plans to clamp them with something non standard too :)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Apr 14, 2012, 13:28:16
It is going to need a bushing of some sort, the rotor hole is bigger than the hub spigot.
Just over a mm, I'll measure accurately later
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Apr 14, 2012, 22:56:47
It is going to need a bushing of some sort, the rotor hole is bigger than the hub spigot.
Just over a mm, I'll measure accurately later

2mm I think PJ, I measured the 400F at 56mm and ther F3 disc at 58mm. How easy is that to do? I was thinking it could be turned on a lathe but not sure if you can get material down to 1mm.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Apr 14, 2012, 23:57:48
Just measured my hub at  55.99mm & rotor ID 58.10mm
56 & 58 would give a nice fit
 Spacers are easy enough, need a tiny lip to fit into chamfer on inside of rotor so they cant fall off.
 Get a piece of bar, bore and part off to length.
Only needs about 5mm (didn't measure carrier thickness  ::) )
I would use 6061 (it's easy to machine and doesn't rust  ;) )
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Apr 15, 2012, 02:11:20
No problemo PJ, got to get me some 1/4" SS plate for the carriers, will have a word with them about turning me some custom spacers/spigots.

Will get all that stuff shipped soon when/if your ready on the block off plugs/exhaust collars.

I can then check the offset needed to give to the fab shop for the spacer depth part of the spigot.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Apr 15, 2012, 02:15:33
Also turns out I got a bit grinder happy with my tank trimming and it's too narrow at the rear.

Result is I will be welding in some panels to bring it out and also will be stretching it 2" as this helps move the problem too.

It also means the tank will look effin cool... if I don't ruin it ;)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Apr 16, 2012, 22:05:44
TIG welding test run tomorrow. Tank and seat getting done weekend after next. Fingers crossed I don't bugger it all up.

Anyone know the thickness of the tank steel? Going to buy some sheet and it looks a bit thinner than the 1.5mm I have been using for the other parts.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Apr 16, 2012, 22:11:00
probably 0.50 or less?
 I had to 'mow the weeds' and go to physical therapy so didn't get much of anything done today, tomorrow isn't looking so bad though
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Apr 18, 2012, 05:23:59
0.8mm in the end, bought the closest I could find 1mm.

Had my first go at TIG welding today too, quite hard with the little machine I was using. Finished up on the MIG and it was a million times easier.

Should have my seat and hump welded soon along with my tank stretched and knee scoops welded in :)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Apr 24, 2012, 08:15:17
Got some updates, crazypj has been my Cafe guardian angel and is helping me no end with my front end dual disc setup, been dragging his 350 out of the shed with a terrible bad back... He'll be ok ;) us Brits are built tough!

He's been a massive help in getting the offsets fixed for the discs, making a tonne of custom parts for me, being an eBay delivery address and generally being brilliant.

Got a few more parts delivered:

1. Fork seals
2. Fork boots
3. Steering stem roller bearings

Plan is to get the fork legs in for straightening and paint the triples, that should have most of the front end ready (except rims, clip ons and controls).

Also got ideas waaaaay above my station in the rear end department too (not my pic but absolutely the concept):

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0e3b63e4.jpg)

On a side note got my KTM run in last weekend. Totally rips with a fresh bottom and top end (the reason I bought this cafe project), just need to fix an annoying gear lever return issue:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/c2406a60.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Apr 25, 2012, 01:50:41
2 jobs done this morning. Fixed the KTM and removed the gasket off the bottom of the 400's cylinders.

Went to my local hardware Store and bought some goodies:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/6bfe1fa9.jpg)

Was damn tough getting it off but in the end managed to get it clean:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/3db264d0.jpg)

Is this clean enough? There are a few scratches from the knife and scotchbrite, do I need to have the cylinder Block shaved or can I put a gasket straight on top?

Also found both the holes in the head (non stud holes) completely blocked. What are these for (the hole on the bottom)?

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/4166b804.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: STRETCH-CB on Apr 25, 2012, 07:26:17
just been through your build, going really great. wish i could help you with those holes but i got no idea. keep up the good work, ill be keeping an eye on this one.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Apr 25, 2012, 07:36:03
just been through your build, going really great. wish i could help you with those holes but i got no idea. keep up the good work, ill be keeping an eye on this one.

Cheers Bud :)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Apr 25, 2012, 11:53:06
I'm guessing it's an oil drain or an oil feed if it goes all the way up to the head and has a matching hole in the upper crankcase.

You can use a single sided razor blade or Stanley knife blade to scrape any tiny particles off that surface. Minor gouges ans scratches are not usually a problem. That's what teh gasket is there is fill.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Apr 25, 2012, 13:19:03
I have a 400f block here, if I can find it easy I'll take a look.
I think they are for locating dowels.
I'm going to make rotor spacers about 6mm thick, it will move rotors towards spokes but the larger diameter will give plenty of clearance.
 I'll angle mill the calipers a little as well to match spoke angle, I'm having fun  ;D 8)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Apr 26, 2012, 06:47:48
I have a 400f block here, if I can find it easy I'll take a look.
I think they are for locating dowels.
I'm going to make rotor spacers about 6mm thick, it will move rotors towards spokes but the larger diameter will give plenty of clearance.
 I'll angle mill the calipers a little as well to match spoke angle, I'm having fun  ;D 8)

Thanks PJ, not sure on the dowel suggestion, the holes go right through the cylinder block. I thought they might be oil galleries but they don't match anything in the head, maybe they are a vestige of another motor design????

Are both rotor spacers the same or is one thicker than the other? Be careful divulging too much of what your doing for me, you will have a million ex pat Brits living in far climes asking you to do a tonne of work for them ;)

... oh and I wanted the pass your work off as my own too ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Apr 26, 2012, 12:38:34


... oh and I wanted the pass your work off as my own too ;)

LOL, sorry  ;D ;D
 I'll make both the same, it may be easier to re-locate caliper bracket? (plus, I'm using 1/2"-12.7mm plate so can't be more than 6.7mm  ;) )
If I made them from 3/4"-19mm it would be a lot more machining for max of 2.5mm extra offset
 unfinished exhaust clamps look real ugly,should look good when done though  8)
 The through holes may be something to do with machining process?
 
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Apr 26, 2012, 20:30:11
Relocating caliper bracket will be easy, not sure how different the offset is anyway on my hub.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Apr 29, 2012, 05:10:00
Went on a dirty ride yesterday on southern Sydney trails with a bunch of good mates. Tough riding but bloody good fun, the first one in 7 months, and my fitness isn't too bad.

Sunday (a little sore) decided to tackle the tank panels. Fabricated a sheet steel bending tool:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/f7a07f8d.jpg)

Worked pretty well considering this was all done by hand:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/9f1162f7.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/8815c5aa.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/ae0ca58d.jpg)

Test fit:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/9be7f8f7.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/8612be51.jpg)

Will be welding on another strip on top and grinding the edges back to form the crease. Tried bending it by hand first but  couldnt get the curve sharp enough.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Apr 30, 2012, 07:20:31
Laa da dii, didley daa dum dii doo daa llaa fii dee dii... Kapow!!!!!!

My $23 indicators finally turned up. Just need to replace the nuts with a polished stem:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/98258b3e.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/e04b62e1.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on May 06, 2012, 03:22:21
Spent all of Saturday round my friend Juha's as he was kind enough to let me use his MIG for my tank and seat. Bashed out a good 5 hours and about 3/4 of the way through. When I was leaving he offered me these, don't like taking things for free, so $20 was exchanged:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/2823a7f2.jpg)

Didn't realise how good those little hammers would be until today when I had the grind back all my welds. Turns out the tank was a little twisted and buckled from the welding, a few taps here and there and it's pretty much perfect. Also was able to get the curve on the rear almost spot on. Needless to say I'm quite chuffed this weekend!!

Pics of course. Basic shape ready for the grinder:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/400fd535.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/36b48e53.jpg)

Stretched tank looks damn sexy:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/d54248bf.jpg)

The result:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/6ffbcb1a.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/fce50f15.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0aca7070.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/af9089f4.jpg)

Its not that noticeable how stretched it is here, hopefully that means its going to look good. Still need to finish off fixing some warpage on top and fill the gap:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/c1607baa.jpg)

I ground through a couple of welds in the tidying up, so will be going over those again. Gives me a chance to weld in the side panels and my new rear tank mount:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/9f5b5089.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/4ec5bc6a.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: sinbad85 on May 06, 2012, 03:31:08
sweet progress mate....
stretched tank looks the goods.....

you're on scr right??
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on May 06, 2012, 05:17:12
you're on scr right??

Yep. Hoping to join a ride in early 2013. Still a bit to do yet though.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: DoTheJon on May 06, 2012, 05:40:59
this build is looking sweet!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on May 06, 2012, 06:15:23
Hellofa good buy for $20! Those Hammers and Dollies will prove to be priceless the more sheetmetal work you do. And honestly should last you a lifetime. Mine were passed down to me from my Step-Dad and he used them in the '50s to work on Hot-Rods.
 
(http://inlinethumb34.webshots.com/50145/2379378170026369651S500x500Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2379378170026369651AbKbhP)

 Each shape has a specific purpose and the more you use them the better you will get at it. I'm sure there are videos on You-Tube on how to use them but it really is a dieing art.
 You probably know to use the Dollies inside to actually hammer against right? That explains all their odd shapes, to get into tight spots and get the contours you desire. The hammer on the right in your set with the point is a shrinking hammer. Not only can you get in tight spots with it, but after you pound on steel with the flat faced ones it thins out and actually stretches. You can bring it bach to size with a bunch of light taps with the point and it also gives Bondo some irregularities to stick to.
.
.
.
 Oh and you bike is looking great!
 
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on May 06, 2012, 06:23:17
Awesome, thanks for the pointers Hoosier. I was amazed how pliable the sheet is and how I could level it out so much.

Will get in YouTube and watch some vids. I love working with sheet metal though, it's fantastic to create something from scratch.

Thanks for the compliments too :)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on May 12, 2012, 04:52:26
Finished off welding the tank today. It's not pretty but it's starting to take shape. Just need to fill the rough bits with solder and finish of the lower parts of the knee cutouts (they buckled a touch, plus i need to sort how they will meet the seat).

Also need to look at lining it. Is lining a home job or should I pay someone to do it properly? Should I put something on the tank to stop flash rust?

Here it is:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/02437a73.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/51379695.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/571ff38b.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/17138029.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/728f2f91.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ducatiboy on May 12, 2012, 05:10:58
Now THAT is a great job right there Neevo. Well done!!

Incidentally, can't quite read the label on the beer bottle on the work bench. More attention to detail when supplying photos please!
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on May 12, 2012, 05:18:58
My sincere apologies... ;)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/e4a93c11.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ducatiboy on May 12, 2012, 05:21:41
Hahahaha!! Now you're talking!! And of course, Coopers! What else?

Seriously though...great job on that tank and seat :)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on May 12, 2012, 05:31:30


Incidentally, can't quite read the label on the beer bottle on the work bench. More attention to detail when supplying photos please!

LOL! cheers boy's
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on May 12, 2012, 06:01:45
Swivel welding it up alone was always the plan but my welding isn't good enough and I'm sure there are some holes. I would prefer not to line it, I might give it to a radiator guy to test and fix any leaks.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on May 12, 2012, 06:56:46
Swivel a question. I am struggling to get the solder to stick, any tips? I suspect it's because of the Alu coating on the new panels as I had no probs on the dent in the tank.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on May 12, 2012, 08:18:08
Yeah using correct flux, it worked on the dent. Will crack out the sanding disc and see what happens.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on May 12, 2012, 09:14:23
In all honesty neevo, I hate to admit it but when you first cut that tank, I had my doubts... But you pulled it off!
OUTSTANDING!
Believe it or not, I think the hard part is over. How are you heating the tank now to solder it? Soldering iron? Propane torch? Make sure you heat the meltal / welds enough to melt the solder, not heating the solder to melt onto the metal. Hope that makes sence.
 
Looks great.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on May 12, 2012, 10:16:46
Thanks for the comments Hoosier, it wasn't a guaranteed result, just thought I would give it a go. I am pretty chuffed, it gets better and better.

I am using propane on the solder, melting the solder though rather than the steel. Will try your way and see how that goes.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on May 12, 2012, 10:44:22
Not too much, don't wanna warp it now!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on May 14, 2012, 22:34:14
Look what I did  ;D
Just made speedo spacer, rotor spacers were already done.
Put it all on 360 front hub, it's PURDY  ;)
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k315/1crazypj/Honda%20CB360/Neevo20.jpg)
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k315/1crazypj/Honda%20CB360/Neevo21.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on May 14, 2012, 23:48:03
Look what I did  ;D
Just made speedo spacer, rotor spacers were already done.
Put it all on 360 front hub, it's PURDY  ;)
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k315/1crazypj/Honda%20CB360/Neevo20.jpg)
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k315/1crazypj/Honda%20CB360/Neevo21.jpg)

Ohhhhhhhhhh YEAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

Gonna look so good with the latest purchase PJ!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on May 15, 2012, 00:06:33
Spacer is 25mm but I'm going to make something different.
You'll have to drill & tap hub when you get parts
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on May 16, 2012, 05:14:38
Looking for advice on how to lift the rear  of the bike without buggering up the handling. Looking for a sportbike look with the sporty stock 400 handling too (don't shoot me but I want some space between the tyre and frame).

Was going to remove the rear shock mounts (doing a mono shock anyway), cut the rear supports and weld in some 1" extensions. To lift the rear was going to further bend the subframe where it bends after the tank.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: RustyOlive on May 16, 2012, 10:43:23
Dam!! Great job on that tank and tail!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: JustinLonghorn on May 16, 2012, 10:50:12
Yep. Tank and tail look damn good, man.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: hillsy on May 16, 2012, 19:36:57


Was going to remove the rear shock mounts (doing a mono shock anyway), cut the rear supports and weld in some 1" extensions. To lift the rear was going to further bend the subframe where it bends after the tank.

Thoughts?

Just get longer shocks. If that doesn't work, then at least you can change them back without welding things twice.
 
But really, how much extra clearance do you need? 1 to 1.5 inch longer shocks will work OK (and probably handle better than what you have now). Anything longer and you'll run into issues with chain clearance, etc.
 
C'mon Swivel - stop drinking and start talkin'        ;D
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on May 16, 2012, 20:13:57
15" shocks were getting the desired lift, I was hoping to drop that to 14" and get the extra 1" from lifting the subframe.

Chain rub wasn't the major concern as I could fabricate a chain tensioner for the swingarm, I was more worried about the funny handling as I have an USD fork conversion in the planning stages too.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on May 17, 2012, 07:35:00
Checking out the beginning of this thread it's fair to say this build has evolved. There are a number of different bikes on the net that are influencing my bike and I thought I would share them here and provide the links/names of builders where possible:

Squirleys 550 Cafe Build
(http://www.bikeexif.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/honda-cb550.jpg)

GoingsMoto's 550
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i144/22thechadwick/_MG_6001.jpg)

And an out there part build from RustyOlive, the insane Fat Arse 550 ( why are they all 550's!!!!!)
(http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=34886.0;attach=54195;image)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on May 17, 2012, 19:25:45
Got it Swivel. Waiting to get my wheels built, forks on etc before I go cutting stuff so I can make sure it all works.

Then play with how it looks. Will be posting up here for input when I get to that stage.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on May 17, 2012, 20:07:04
I like 550's, had several but I don't like the dirt bike shocks on them
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: sinbad85 on May 18, 2012, 20:38:55
damn that fatass 550 looks bad ass.......

with inspiration like that this bike will turn out amazing.....

you're tearing it up neevo
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on May 19, 2012, 03:47:07
Good day in the shed today. Committed to the monoshock by cutting off the upper shock mounts. Much tidier now with clean tube, my seat was very tight going over the brackets for the mounts, now it just glides on:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/d2658d20.jpg)

Finished off the seat by drilling the mounting holes and cut off the old rear tank rubber mounts:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/df6258cf.jpg)

Got to cutting the uprights for my swingarm brace and a rough test fit courtesy of some masking tape to hold it all together:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/b685f366.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/4de5e657.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/44c70de7.jpg)

I think I need another bend in there as the straight sections need bracing too but I think there is going to be chain clearance issues. Should be fixed with a straight insert at the very top and 2 bends half way down the straight sections.

Put all the bits back on so I can put it to bed for another night:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/ac16b0f4.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/4caae1d2.jpg)

Finished up with a good clean of the bench:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/241b36fd.jpg)

Also did a bit more on the tank however I am having real issues getting the solder to stick to the new panels. Going to talk to a radiator man about doing it for me and pressure testing it. It's ready to go now though as I've tidied up all the visible sections.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on May 19, 2012, 04:35:50
Looking good! Hope you got the missus vacuum back in the house before she noticed lol...... Interested to see how the mono turns out. What are you going to do with the cut outs in the tank to fit the frame? Rounding them out?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on May 19, 2012, 11:28:44
Nicely spotted on the vac ;)

It's actually my shop vac, the old house one as we bought a Dyson so no issues there.

Plan for the tank cutouts is to round them out at a minimum or I may be trimming those sections to meet the lines of the seat. Haven't decided quite yet as I may be lifting the subframe an inch. Need to get the mono done and wheels on to test fit.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on May 26, 2012, 20:41:18
"GOLD!... gold! Always believe in your soooo-oul"

From the land of Spandau Ballet, 2 individuals team up (admittedly 1 doing the thinking and work, the other chirping in with suggestions) from actoss the globe, to build a golden gorgeous front end.

The donor:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/87e0e3ee.jpg)

Stem comparison (Gixer v 360), needs top bearing area reduced and new threads cut:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/80329177.jpg)

Reduced:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/733dc184.jpg)

Beefiness comparison vs 360:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/6ad56050.jpg)

Looks like there might be tank clearance issues so will need to either reduce the steering stops, cut the tank more with scoops or as a last resort look at custom triples.

Test fit:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/4b2efc4c.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/20ca96a9.jpg)

Lastly need to sort some carriers to place the calipers in the right place:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/5f9a3c42.jpg)

Was in the local hardware store yesterday too and saw this stuff. I assume this is the recommended product for painting the frame?

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/d8f240ba.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on May 26, 2012, 20:47:52
2 pieces of 3"diameter  exhaust pipe fitted into front of tank
1ft should be plenty, split down the middle to get 2 curved pieces
With all the old Holden's around scrap pipe should be real easy to pick up  ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on May 26, 2012, 21:00:35
I'm a precision machinist, modifying stem is far easier  ;D
 The correct bearings are available all over, including Honda
You don't have to mix and match odd stuff which may or may not have same pressure angles
 I'm pretty sure a modified 400F won't be able to stress front end as much as a GSX-R 600/750  ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on May 27, 2012, 02:14:44
Like it, think that will look great on the beast.....
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on May 27, 2012, 04:37:42
Putting clipon dents in your tank is not right.Just move the tank back a bit and weld a bit on the lock stops to reduce steering lock

Agreed. Done.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: sinbad85 on May 27, 2012, 05:40:44
sick!
that front end is going to look awesome

maybe i WILL chuck mine on......
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on May 27, 2012, 06:49:23
Quick question. Is it possible to make a swingarm brace with welded sections or does it have to be made from 1 piece?

Doesn't matter either way, just don't want it to crack as it will be stressed due to taking the monoshock loads.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on May 27, 2012, 09:00:06
The one big loop should be should be one big loop and DOM high tensile tubing and not chromoly.....

As in the whole thing Swivel or just the top loop part?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on May 27, 2012, 11:57:23
Take a look at Yamaha DT125~175 mono-shock from the 80's (should be able to find one)
They had fabricated swing arm similar to what your doing.
The curved section at rear looks good and is probably plenty strong enough but it would force stresses to change direction, straight lines and triangles are your friend if your not a structural engineer  ;D
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on May 27, 2012, 20:36:56
Your top loop design is just fine,but it needs to be copied in one continuous piece of tubing(easy Y'v got a pattern handy then.....).A stressed member should not be cut'n'shut sections.Every frame tube flexes and "walks around"and numerous welds are just stress risers you don't need.

No probs. Will make this one in pieces with the view to use it as a template for the tube bender.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on May 30, 2012, 04:47:10
Bought some stuff today ready for my latest addition to the shed in a couple of weeks:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/bca0cf71.jpg)

SS brush
Red tungstens 1.6mm
5kg of filler rod

5kg was maybe a bit OTT but I plan on practicing a fair bit before I let myself loose on the bike.

Not getting a $$$$$$ machine but it should be good for the stuff I want to do and it was enough to get approval on this spend alone. Unimig 170:

(http://www.sydneytools.com.au/images/Products/Unimig%20170%20DCpro.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MickyC on May 30, 2012, 04:54:14
looking good mate. whats the Red tungstens 1.6mm for?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on May 30, 2012, 05:05:09
They go in the TIG welder, they create the arc.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on May 30, 2012, 07:01:53
Unimig 170: ? so is this to be used with gas? interested to see the results  :)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on May 30, 2012, 07:04:42
I would say the regulator and pressure gauges are a bit of a give away  ;D
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on May 30, 2012, 07:08:08
I would say the regulator and pressure gauges are a bit of a give away  ;D

lol  ;D just wondering if its a duel setup ya know, little from column A little from column B Lol........
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on May 30, 2012, 09:27:19
Yep. Argon gas cylinder on its way from a mate too.

Can't wait to start having a go. Been spending hours looking at YouTube videos on how to TIG.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jun 02, 2012, 08:24:18
Continuing with the theme of aiming waaaaaaay above my skill level. Thinking of building of of these puppies:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/d98227bd.jpg)

Killer video here too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ8CGGYamuE&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Jun 02, 2012, 08:38:25
Get some argon, and your scrap pieces of metal and practice, practice, practice.
I can tell you there's a big difference from watching someone TIG and actual hands-on. Damn guys make it look so easy! My first time I practiced on sheet aluminum two different days until it seemed like I was doing good, then when I turned to the actual seat I was building it looked like a duck shit all over the seams!
 ::)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jun 02, 2012, 08:49:32
That's the plan. Not saying its going to work but you can always dream.

Will be putting my head down for the next few months learning to lay beads and controlling the torch.

Maybe when I'm feeling confident I will buy some scrap SS sheet and try a muffler.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jun 02, 2012, 08:51:55
So serious about practicing I bought 5kg of filler rod!!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ducatiboy on Jun 02, 2012, 20:25:21

Killer video here too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ8CGGYamuE&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Aaaaahhh!!! So THAT"S how you make an exhaust pipe!! I might go out to the shed and knock one up this afternoon.

Awesome video Neevo and good luck with your TIG welding. When you've got your pipe perfected let me know and you can come and do mine :)

BTW I'm headed to Deus for a coffee in the next half hour or so. If any DTTers are going to be there let me know!

Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jun 04, 2012, 08:50:03
Awesome video Neevo and good luck with your TIG welding. When you've got your pipe perfected let me know and you can come and do mine :)

No probs! Give me half a day learning how to do it and I should be ready to rock out perfect pipes ;)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jun 09, 2012, 04:12:25
Update on the welding situation. Managed to convince the accountant to let me get the welder today as next week we are having the floors in our house sanded and it would mean I couldn't play with it after payday.

Bit of a run around this morning picking up bits (stool from charity shop, argon bottle from my buddy Yuha, 15A socket from the hardware store) and by about midday I was set to melt metal:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/1a06c990.jpg)

Struggled early on with results like these:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/dd5f97d0.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/ad6c1808.jpg)

Bit of a sushi refuel at about 1 and I made a few changes post fish. Turns out the #6 cup I was using was not sitting straight on the torch so I swapped it for the 5, also worked out I had miscalculated the argon flow so dialed that back a bit too. Results were much better:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/9ea10fc6.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/2bb85c08.jpg)

Lastly replaced the sanding disc in my grinder to get cleaner material, made a big difference as the puddle was much easier to get and maintain resulting in cleaner welds:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/842920e9.jpg)

Lastly decided to put my new skills to use and built a tig torch holder. The welds are shitty but it works a treat:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/96d3a537.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/6168df6d.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Jun 09, 2012, 04:49:55
Nice man! practice and knowledge makes perfect  ;) your still ahead of me  ;D
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jun 09, 2012, 05:02:34
Nice man! practice and knowledge makes perfect  ;) your still ahead of me  ;D

Nope. Level playing field. Your garage is a massive points score in Cafe Racer top trumps, mines shit!
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jun 10, 2012, 03:21:39
Practiced my welding today by building a template for the swingarm brace:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/7470f459.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/751f8406.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/99e2282f.jpg)

The idea was to create a template for the tube bender to copy, however I have been shown a couple of RDLC swingarms on eBay which might be purchased instead.

Still... got to practice welding tube.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ducatiboy on Jun 10, 2012, 04:19:25
Woohoo!! Outstanding Neevo! :D :D :D

Don't buy a 2nd piece of junk (ie the RD swingarm) when you can make your very own. Go buy one if yours doesn't work out.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Jun 10, 2012, 06:32:28
Nice one man!  :D
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jun 10, 2012, 06:49:31
Woohoo!! Outstanding Neevo! :D :D :D

Don't buy a 2nd piece of junk (ie the RD swingarm) when you can make your very own. Go buy one if yours doesn't work out.

Trouble is it's going to cost me $100 or so to have the brace bent properly out of 1 piece. The RDLC swingarm could be had for about the same and it's ready to use and already engineered for a monoshock.

Decisions, decisions.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jun 10, 2012, 12:27:26
Plus, you'll have to buy material to make a jig to hold everything in line.
If you were going into production it would be worthwhile but modifying RD 350 would be quicker and easier
Title: Re: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Kanticoy on Jun 10, 2012, 20:47:13
Plus, you'll have to buy material to make a jig to hold everything in line.
If you were going into production it would be worthwhile but modifying RD 350 would be quicker and easier

+1 to that considering...

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jun 11, 2012, 03:25:26
Plus, you'll have to buy material to make a jig to hold everything in line.
If you were going into production it would be worthwhile but modifying RD 350 would be quicker and easier

Didn't think about that PJ, another tick in the RD swingarms box.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jun 11, 2012, 03:39:21
Fair bit done today although looking at the bike you wouldn't really know,

First up welded up the cut off chain guard holder on the swingarm. It had a depressed section and so I cracked out the filler rod, filled it in and ground it back.

Next up was the subframe. There were a couple of things to achieve here:

1. Remove kinks in the tube after the upright tubes (the tube wasn't level all the way around causing the gap to the bottom of the seat to be inconsistent)
2. Lift it up about 25mm

To remove the kinks I got the grinder and cut some slits where the tube was kinked. Standing on it to bend it slightly, then rewelded back up. Got it pretty good in the end although I will need to tidy the tubes up a bit before paint.

I'm after a sporty aggressive look with this bike, like a modern sportbike. The GSXR front end helps a bit but I needed a bit more space between the rear wheel and the rear hoop. The dodgy way would be to put a longer shock on it, however this would bugger up the handling and also probably cause the chain to rub the swingarm. The other alternative was to bend the whole subframe up, not an issue seeing as I won't require it to be load bearing because I will be converting to a monoshock.

Worried it would look goofy but I used the same technique as I used on the kinked sections. Worked a treat. Just need to get some 1" tube to extend the uprights.

Other items were finishing off the seat, cut the bottom so it was level all the way round, welded up some sections and got the grinder on it so it was smooth. Looks much better:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/a24d97dd.jpg)

Stance of the bike is looking great compared to how it was.

Old:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/ac16b0f4.jpg)

New:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/70b5723e.jpg)

Also started on the tank. Getting it all welded up is proving to be a pain, lots of blowing holes, but I'm getting the hang of filling them in with the TIG. Hope to have it ready for pressure testing in the next couple of weeks.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 01, 2012, 02:27:55
Thought I would try some bits today whilst I wait for my argon to get replaced on the TIG welder.

Today's challenge: monoshock

Have my eye on an RD350LC shock from Hagon and used the dimensions Hagon sent me to cut a piece of 40mm box section as an analogue for the shock:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/e24bc44a.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/84eb5e56.jpg)

The shock is a lot longer than I thought it would be at 290mm. It was a struggle to get it in the space however I have it reasonably close to where I want it. I think I can extend the swingarm down a little lower too so that it rest in the right place when the static sag comes into play.

I plan on mounting the shock up by the end of the rear spine above the carbs. It will be attached between 2 plates which will be reinforced with a tube forwards and 2 tubes back to the frame uprights

The lower mount will also be between 2 plates attached to the swingarm brace, mounting above the swingarm brace like this:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/6aad0a5d.jpg)

Does anyone have any inputs? Hopefully the spring is compact enough it won't foul on my seat supports that run between the rear seat frame rails. Here is how it currently sits, angle looks ok but haven't done any spring rate calculations at this stage:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/c2d7cb6b.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/ac4bbaf0.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/2d4a8a3a.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/6c4718e8.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/4b7b4e53.jpg)

Wider shot:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/c8263cc9.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 01, 2012, 02:44:15
I shaped a couple of 'triangular' plates to sit just above carbs, angle is roughly where you have box section but slightly lower (Maybe 1/2"~ 3/4" above carb top?)
Raise swing arm end of shock about 2", it will give a rising rate as the angles and radii move around 'over center', you can also move lower end 'backwards' closer to radius of wheel/tyre
When I saw you had posted, I though stuff had arrived but postal service couldn't possibly be that fast  ;)

Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 01, 2012, 02:55:39
I shaped a couple of 'triangular' plates to sit just above carbs, angle is roughly where you have box section but slightly lower (Maybe 1/2"~ 3/4" above carb top?)
Raise swing arm end of shock about 2", it will give a rising rate as the angles and radii move around 'over center', you can also move lower end 'backwards' closer to radius of wheel/tyre
When I saw you had posted, I though stuff had arrived but postal service couldn't possibly be that fast  ;)

I wish the stuff had arrived PJ!!!!! Christmas in July when that stuff turns up :) Did you get the rest of the shipping ?

Rethinking the front mount, think I might copy your triangles, weld them to the spine and reinforce them with a plate across the rear frame rails too.

With raising the rear a bit, does that flatten the spring and reduce the cantilever forces as it compresses. Almost making it a progressive system?

Not sure if I can get 2" though from the brace.

Not sure I get the last bit; move lower end backwards. Can you help me understand that one?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 01, 2012, 03:27:24
If you put wheel in, you'll see you have some extra 'length' to play with
Cut some plates for swing arm pretty much same shape as top mounts but 'upside down' to move mounting bolt closer to tyre. (and it gives you somewhere to mount a mudguard to keep crap out of carbs)

 
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 01, 2012, 03:31:54
If you put wheel in, you'll see you have some extra 'length' to play with
Cut some plates for swing arm pretty much same shape as top mounts but 'upside down' to move mounting bolt closer to tyre. (and it gives you somewhere to mount a mudguard to keep crap out of carbs)

Ah got it! I don't have wheels at the moment as the old ones were trashed, so I have no idea where the tyre is supposed to finish in the swingarm. I need to get my rims sorted, pity they are $850 from F&R :(
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 01, 2012, 11:31:31
Just try and grab an 18" wheel with tyre, doesn't matter if it's rusty or tyre is bald, you need at least 1" clearance when wheel is fully forward. An off road wheel will work and may be easier to find?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 01, 2012, 19:48:35
I will grab the 18" knobbie of my KTM. Tyre might be a bit fat with those knobbies but that might help with clearance.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 01, 2012, 23:30:12
That should work great, you can get pretty close to  MX tyre and have plenty of clearance with street tyre
 Have you checked Customs declaration number to find out where stuff is?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 02, 2012, 05:28:47
Had a cheeky look last night and I said FL USA but that was back on the 29th. Don't like to watch as it takes longer... watched pot and all that ;)

Did the rest of the postage get to you?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 02, 2012, 09:14:44
Yep, I'll be mailing Thursday, there's some sort of holiday going on this week  ;)
You should be able to log on to U.S. Postal Service, Track Package and just enter numbers.

It should be in Oz by now. but, customs is always a hold up
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 02, 2012, 10:09:08
Eeeeeeeeeeexcellent!!!! Cheers PJ :)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Ryanh on Jul 02, 2012, 21:30:03
How are you going about registration on this mate? Who is going to be engineering it? Pm me if you don't want
To put it in here
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 03, 2012, 20:02:36
No idea yet Ryan. I'm a member of Sydney Cafe Racers on Facebook and they are great for local knowledge for those hidden gems.

I am a long way away at the moment but can share if I find out before you.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 06, 2012, 05:46:00
Father Christmas took an unscheduled trip to give me a selection of gifts, 2 boxes from crazypj and my latest classic bike mag:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/32db667f.jpg)

Slowly unpacked with growing excitement on the kitchen table until I had a bundle of special goodies including some truly custom parts:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/dd2ca95a.jpg)

Nearly all these goodies are going on my 400F, so to hopefully rub it in I thought I would go through each part:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/52f837e4.jpg)

* CBR F3 twin disks
* GSXR 750 triple clamps
* GSXR triple clamp stem with custom turned threads and diameter to accept standard 400F head bearings (PJ)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/b346701b.jpg)

* Front brake pin for my KTM
* Custom made exhaust collars (PJ), these bad boys are going to get a polish
* GSXR steering damper
* Tacho plug (PJ)
* Fuel petcock from an intruder (going to modify it for my tank)
* CBR F3 calipers
* Custom rotor spacers (PJ)
* Custom axle spacers and speedo drive block off plug to fit GSXR forks (PJ)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/06ecf024.jpg)

* Katana axel
* CB400F oil pump (which hasn't sucked 5kg of metal through it)
* Oil pan (without damaged oil drain bolt thread)
* Clutch cover (without a crack like my one and including a custom kickstart lever block off plug - PJ)

Needless to say the girly squeals that came out of me each time I unwrapped another part had the missus looking over with a puzzled look. VERY EXCITING stuff.

I will definitely pee myself a little when the Gixxer forks turn up in about a week too :D
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: DesmoBro on Jul 06, 2012, 06:38:17
Dude awesome your bike is gonna be sick I can't wait to see the GSXR front end on there
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 06, 2012, 06:41:09
Dude awesome your bike is gonna be sick I can't wait to see the GSXR front end on there

You and me both :D

It's the most exciting part of the build for me... oh and the monoshock ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: DesmoBro on Jul 06, 2012, 06:43:36
yea i was yawning at my build until i got the clip ons on there ....I'd just plain shit if i had that top notch Fork tho
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 06, 2012, 10:09:41
Hi Ed, I'm really happy everything got there OK.
The steel baffle plate is back in sump?
Forks should be there soon, fitting is pretty much going to be 'plug and play'  8)
btw, the oil pump is only loosely assembled so you can get it apart easy for cleaning
 
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: sinbad85 on Jul 06, 2012, 11:10:59
nice parts order! ide be squeeling like a little schoolgirl
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ducatiboy on Jul 07, 2012, 04:03:07
Yeah I think I'd pretty much wet myself too if I got a delivery like that one!!

BTW are you sure about the geometry of your rear shock/swingarm? In the side on pictures it looks as though as the swingarm rises on compression there will be very little  travel before the shock will "cam over" and start to extend again rather than compress. I would have thought the line formed by the shock/swingarm loop shouldn't be completely straight but have a bit of a peak ie instead of 180 degrees should be like 170 or something. Not sure if this really makes sense?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 07, 2012, 04:26:40
Ducatiboy, thanks for the inputs, the rear needs a fair bit of fiddling to get the angle right.

I'm going to make the lower mount out of a solid plate and drill the mount holes later so that I can adjust where it mounts and ultimately the angle/rate of the spring.

I am not sure how useful my mockup was for exact positioning but it helped to start visualizing where the shock would go and how to build the mounts.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 07, 2012, 04:34:19
Not sure if this really makes sense?

Just had another look at the pics and your right. I've already lifted the rear brace which pretty much fixes this issue but need to look at the angle of the shock further to make sure it all works.

Edit: found this image which is the RD350LC frame, shows a very similar angle to the shock. Maybe I'm not too far away, looks like the rising rate may be similar.

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/ca6064bf.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 09, 2012, 08:36:20
PJ forgot to mention, sump baffle was definitely in the boxes.

Need help on the Gixer triples and how to get them black. The bottom one needs a clean, the top one has some wear marks and scratches:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/53aeac2c.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/a5e9c48b.jpg)

Had a chat to a local anodizing place and they were thinking the bottom was cast and hence could not be anodised. Top could be anodised potentially if it's billet however I would have to get the dents and scratches out myself.

Not sure how to remove the marks without ruining the finish.

Anyone got options for getting these black, how about power coating?

Lastly can I get the Suzuki logo out without damaging it too?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 09, 2012, 13:07:19
Top and bottom are cast so powder would be the way to go.
The 'S' is glued in, you could try acetone to loosen glue?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 09, 2012, 19:20:49
PJ what finish would powder end up with? Don't want them to look too plastic when done.

Anyone got some powder pictures in black?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: hillsy on Jul 09, 2012, 19:52:44
Just paint them. Use engine enamel and bake them in the oven on low heat.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 10, 2012, 02:06:27
Just paint them. Use engine enamel and bake them in the oven on low heat.

Won't they look shit? Trying to avoid them looking like they have been coated in plastic.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: hillsy on Jul 10, 2012, 02:08:59
Use a flat black or satin and they will look OK. VHT paints are the best I've used (in engine enamels anyway).
 
Heat curing is the key to a good finish (as well as good prep).
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 10, 2012, 02:40:15
Satin would be best, matte is impossible to keep clean
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 10, 2012, 06:50:56
Cheers gents. Think I might take a punt on the satin. This stuff?

http://www.vhtpaint.com/products/epoxypaint/

Would I be able to use my gas BBQ to cure them?

Also how should I be masking up the insides where the fork tubes slide and also where the stem is inserted?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Ryanh on Jul 10, 2012, 12:04:08
That's the stuff... And I'm not sure about the BBQ idea, does it have a hood? And does it hold a temp well? I'd just use the oven.. I cured my engine cases in it, then cooked a heap of garlic and onion after to hide the smell from the misses haha

As for masking, I'd just use tape man.. If not then find some steel tube the same diameter and cut it about 1 1/2 inch long and put it in the holes
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 10, 2012, 20:40:25
BBQ has a hood and holds 200c easily. It is outside so wouldn't stink the house out or the oven. Might try that first.

I like the pipe idea, would it work with plastic water pipe?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: hillsy on Jul 10, 2012, 20:50:54
You don't want 200 degrees - more like 110-130 for about an hour or until it stops smelling / fuming.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Kwality on Jul 10, 2012, 21:39:31
I painted my cases with the VHT Universal Aluminium, then cured in a hooded BBQ.  Worked a treat.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 10, 2012, 22:07:07
If you only need 110f you could use a solar oven, only problem is, it may get too hot (inside of cars get up around 140+ in Florida, local news did a 'test')
http://www.solarcooker-at-cantinawest.com/buildingasolarcooker.html (http://www.solarcooker-at-cantinawest.com/buildingasolarcooker.html)
http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles/radabaugh30.html
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: hillsy on Jul 10, 2012, 22:13:09
We're talking degrees celcius PJ - needs to be a bit hotter than just in the car to cure engine enamels (although it would probably be OK after a week or so).
 
Interesting link though  ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 10, 2012, 22:20:40
Solar 'oven' will probably get up around 3~400+ f.
I'm so used to seeing Fahrenheit I assume that's what is being used  ;D
 BTW, if you have a busted back projection TV with Freznel lens screen, you can make something 'dangerous'  ;D
Did a little bit of hunting around on Google, you can get around 600f with metal construction and insulation
The VHT paint was 250 f 121c
 
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 11, 2012, 05:49:14
Ah 121 degrees C. Easy peasy, might whip up some snags too ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Jul 11, 2012, 06:50:19
might whip up some snags too ;)

Nice  ;D ill take 2   :P lol.....
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 13, 2012, 01:39:01
Nothing today? ;D
Have you checked where forks are yet?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 13, 2012, 01:56:28
Nothing today? ;D
Have you checked where forks are yet?

Yeah I checked this morning. Yesterday they hit Aussie shores, don't think they were delivered today though as I asked the missus to keep an eye out.

Bought my satin case paint to get the triples done this weekend though. Also am ready to tap the front hub for discs.

Should be good to assemble the front end next week. Then will make caliper carriers.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 13, 2012, 02:01:43
Cool, can hardly wait to see it assembled
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 13, 2012, 04:50:52
Me too!!!!

Need to hit the missus up for a loan for the rims and tyres. Think I have my heart set on the 130x70x18 rear tyre and 3.5 rear rim combination and will make it work, even if I have to get something like a Dresda swingarm.

Any thoughts on what front to match it up with?

I was thinking 100x90x18 and 2.15 rim.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 13, 2012, 13:53:12
Probably want a 100 or 110 front to match, several smaller capacity modern bikes use that combo
Even the biggest /fastest sport bikes only use 120 fronts even with 180~190 rear
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Kanticoy on Jul 13, 2012, 14:20:34
Hey neevo, you'll definitely need a different swinger. I run a 130 on my 360 cafe and it will not clear the front of the swinger "u" so I just fabbed a new one.

Mad science bitches!
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 14, 2012, 04:25:24
Hey neevo, you'll definitely need a different swinger. I run a 130 on my 360 cafe and it will not clear the front of the swinger "u" so I just fabbed a new one.

Mad science bitches!

Got pics? I'm thinking I might make a box section swinger or potentially just use a 120 rear.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 14, 2012, 04:39:10
Today was a good day in the shed, planned on painting my triple clamps and tapping the front hub for the CBR discs.

Heres a cheeky before pic:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/a5e9c48b.jpg)

First up I made a makeshift spray booth, booth is a little optimistic as it was essentially just a sheet hung against my garage door. I hung some wire and made sure I could hang the triples ready for painting:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0502c711.jpg)

Wasn't sure how I should prep the clamps for paint do I decided to whack them in the sandblasting cabinet for a quick once over to key them for paint:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/a157c299.jpg)

Next up I masked the inside of the fork clamps and lower stem surface:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/1e724426.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/04eef5d7.jpg)

Swivel suggested case paint so I bought a can of this in satin black:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/db1f78fa.jpg)

2 light coats and then a slightly wetter one (as per the instructions) and I am loving the end result, hope it doesn't flake or chip:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/27340e5f.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/30594bfc.jpg)

I've left them hanging for tonight then will bake in the BBQ tomorrow on 120c to cure the paint, anyone know for how long???

The other job for today was to drill and tap my front hub to accept the CBR discs and spacers PJ made for me. I bought this during the week:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/ad6a4ad1.jpg)

First I marked the hub with a punch:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/e0fe39fb.jpg)

Then drilled the hub and cracked out the tap:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/d244ee4e.jpg)

It worked out ok and after some minor fiddling I got it all working perfectly. The end result:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/61cf76d0.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/a218e8da.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/9c36d1b0.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Jul 14, 2012, 05:01:11

I've left them hanging for tonight then will bake in the BBQ tomorrow on 120c to cure the paint, anyone know for how long???


till their medium to well done  ;D ;D ;D 15-20 min would be my guess
Those discs look mean ! whole lot of front STOP!.... nice

Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 14, 2012, 06:53:55
Also I will stripping the CBR calipers tomorrow so that I can sandblast and paint them with VHT caliper paint.

Anyone got suggestions on a good colour?

I was thinking Satin Black like they are in stock form. However the other colours are making me think like the Silver, Gloss Black and Gold.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 14, 2012, 11:44:38
Looking good.
About how thick was the hub where you tapped it?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 14, 2012, 18:43:23
Looking good.
About how thick was the hub where you tapped it?

About 12mm I recon.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 14, 2012, 21:20:29
Wow, that's a lot more than I expected.
Going to be plenty too strong enough  ;D
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 15, 2012, 04:22:30
Baked the triple clamps in the BBQ today, worked a treat:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/c5b4d816.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/d6567fcf.jpg)

Then I headed out and bought a can of caliper paint:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/36e614f7.jpg)

Stripped the calipers in no time and prepped for sandblasting and paint.

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/6d0f6887.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/ec9fd8f6.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/9f923c76.jpg)

While I was waiting for the paint to dry I thought I would install the head stems bearings, bottom went in no problems but the top just dropped in, I can pull it out, is that normal????

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/9ed503a2.jpg)

Next up I tried to fit my bearings and found out that the stem needed some refinement. I don't have a lathe so I thought I would improvise with my bench grinder:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/a360dd77.jpg)

Worked really well and I was able to take off 0.03mm with 600 grit sandpaper. I wasn't so lucky with the stem when I tried to put it in the triple. With 100c heat in the triple and the stem in the freezer I was still only able to get it this far:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/c4dc1511.jpg)

Time for a hydraulic press!

Next up I cleaned up the brake parts:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/32d1ad6c.jpg)

And ran the pads through the sandblaster:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/f2e9257e.jpg)

Just waiting for the calipers to finish baking. They turned out nice but I should have put a wetter layer on them in some places as its not uniformly gloss, it might not be noticeable though so I may leave it. Pics when they come out of the BBQ in a few minutes.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Jul 15, 2012, 04:33:25
how long did you end up baking them for?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 15, 2012, 04:49:37
1 hour at 100c. That's what the caliper and engine paint recommends and I thought an engine running would be easily an hour.

It's pretty tough stuff as its taken a few whacks when trying to get the stem in.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: sinbad85 on Jul 15, 2012, 05:41:03
that is an awesome job on the disc conversion.


also those calipers are going to look amazing.....
i wasnt going to paint mine,
now i think i will
great write up too
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 15, 2012, 06:36:23
Calipers done!

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/44f11cb7.jpg)

They are much better than before but I'm not 100% happy with the result as I didn't get them wet enough on the last pass, so they are not uniformly glossy. I may whack them in the forks and see if they still bother me, they might be fine when they are on the bike.

I will be sanding back the NISSIN logo to offer a bit of contrast and break up the black a bit. Any tips on how to do this without affecting the paint around it?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Jul 15, 2012, 10:08:01
Awsome progress Neevo... Keep up the good work!
Guess I just wanted you to know I was still paying attention to your build. ;)
 
How much farther does the stem need to be in the lower triple tree? Reason I ask is it almost looks like it has a groove for a snap ring to retain it.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 15, 2012, 11:42:59
Top bearing being loose isn't normal but it does happen.
Get some Loctite 'bearing fit', may have to order it?
 Don't use it until your ready to assemble front end that way you can have correct pressure to seat bearing
There isn't anything retaining stem except friction/pressure from interference fit.
 I made plug so you could beat it in, guess that didn't work?
 When you use press, the stem doesn't sit flush, there is at least 1mm sticking out (maybe a little more)
Don't try and get it flush underneath, something will break
For the calipers, tape around the NISSIN and use a flat wood block to sand tops of lettering
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 16, 2012, 03:57:58
Cheers gents!

I beat the shit out of that plug you made PJ and it made bugger all difference. At least I know its not going anywhere when I get it in there ;)

I'm an idiot for not thinking about masking up the calipers! Thanks for a beautifully simple solution.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 16, 2012, 05:28:39
I think they're here PJ :D

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/fb50b22d.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 16, 2012, 14:14:28
Rock and Roll  ;D
Have to get stem pressed ready for front end mock up  8)
 Don't know why they said heavy, it's under 18lbs
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 16, 2012, 19:23:22
Rock and Roll  ;D
Have to get stem pressed ready for front end mock up  8)
 Don't know why they said heavy, it's under 18lbs

Haven't sorted the stem yet, going to try and find someone tomorrow morning so can at least mock it up :)

I think mr postman got a bit tick crazy as it is apparently a heavy letter that may need two people to move it????
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 17, 2012, 01:00:17
Bugger, when I saw you had posted I thought maybe you had the forks
Maybe it swam over and got waterlogged?  ;D
 Sorry about the stem, dismantled was cheapest way to ship.
 Any back street garages near you?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 17, 2012, 01:09:51
Nah not yet, thinking about sneaking out of office early so I can cuddle them tonight ;)

No issues with the stem, made them super easy to paint anyway. I will see if any garages locally can pop it in for a few dollars tomorrow morning.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 17, 2012, 01:35:12
Make sure they have a tube or stack of washers that will fit onto flat where bearing seats, if they press with it sitting on ends it WILL bend
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 17, 2012, 08:12:14
No problemo PJ. Assume you mean sitting on the fork clamp holes. Turn it into a nicely painted banana clamp.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 17, 2012, 11:51:19
Yep, you got it.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 18, 2012, 01:10:35
Stem is pressed into the clamp! Local shop did it and had a great chat to them about tyres too which has confirmed my sizing on the rear: 120 x 80 x 18

It was surprisingly wide in the low profile 80 and looks great in a modern tread pattern. This is great news as it now means I don't have to do any crazy reworking of the swingarm or rear sprocket and also is in line with the recommendations of those in the know.

I took the time to polish back the NISSIN logo on the calipers, looks a million times better, however I have noticed some parts where I haven't hit the calipers with enough paint. What should I do here???? Strip them back and repaint them or just get another can and go over the top with another coat of paint?

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0fd8bc49.jpg)

Also picked up the most exciting part of the build so far (from PJ) at the post office:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/59439fde.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/beddbcf8.jpg)

They are in great shape and will clean up really nicely. I love the gold colour, almost silver and it should go nicely with the final colour scheme. I will be breaking them down this weekend to give them a proper clean and also make sure the seals are good. Then back together with some fresh oil, anyone got recommendations on weights for GSX-R forks and also oil heights?

The excitement was too great not to have a go at putting them on the bike, so I put together the triple clamps, working out which spacer to use and came across something. With the small spacer the clearance at the bottom is perfect, about 0.5 - 1mm out the bottom of the stem and sits really nicely on the bearing surface of the triple clamp. When I put the top bearing in and snug it all down I don't have room for the washer and the top nut, only the top nut and even this is only showing about 5-7 threads. Does this sound right?

I am happy to find a thin washer for the top nut to run on but want to make sure 5-7 or so threads is safe enough to clamp down the top triple clamp. I will get pics once I put the bearing on the stem and put it back together again.

Either way I thought I would mock it all up and I have to say the results are very "midrift stirring", is that worrying???

Of course I took some piccies:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/5d1f6ab1.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/d7392ef4.jpg)

PJ I have questions on the spacers. Can you tell me again why they are not the same width? I want to make sure I get them all lined up correctly so that I can make the caliper carriers with enough offset to centre the calipers on the discs. What should I be using as the guide? Should I be centering the middle of the hub in the middle of the forks?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MickyC on Jul 18, 2012, 02:02:18
front end looks killer hardcore mate
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 18, 2012, 04:41:04
Whacked the triples in the freezer and popped the bearing in the oven on 60c and to my surprise it dropped straight down:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/abb53ecd.jpg)

Greased both bearings up, dropped the top race in with some red Loctite on it and the front end was together for the first time in about 6 months.

Here is the amount of thread left:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/95f7fa6b.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/a2fbc62f.jpg)

Not much eh! It snugs down fine without the washer. Just need to find a thinner washer so I can torque the nut down without scratching the paint.

Also worked on a template for the caliper carrier. Need to make it from 7mm material to get the correct offset for the discs, or I might look at 6mm and some spacing washers as I'm not sure if both sides are the same. It's ugly so I might look at getting something made by a engineering shop in SS that I don't mind it being on show:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/517e90e6.jpg)

Something on a CNC would look amazing. Ultimately the aim was to get the brake pads sitting square on the discs, there isn't much room for error as its about 1-2mm from touching the back of the caliper. I think these should work though.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 18, 2012, 04:51:36
New position of caliper with carrier:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0344cf1f.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0ab23eb8.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/89d48ce2.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/e644455d.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 18, 2012, 04:58:27
Great, you not only got them but mocked front end  8)

Did we measure the steering head length?
 Probably should have made stem slightly longer as taper bearings are about 3~4mm taller than original ball bearings
 The clearance at bottom between yoke and steering head is around 0.5~1.00mm?

Spacers lengths are different because hub is different.
The rotor side of hub is wider (to locate rotor) the speedo drive side is 'flat as drive plate bolts onto it, then speedo drive
You will need to use the small spacer on rotor side of hub (or did I make an alloy one?)
 You don't use anything on speedo side of hub except the spacer/ speedo eliminator
You should be able to set spoke flanges 'centered' and the spacers should be more or less flush with outside edge of fork.
 Have you tried a washer behind caliper mount to move them in slightly?
I would center fixed mount 'groove' on rotor.
 It's going to be much easier to set up with a hub compared to complete wheel
I'll see if I have info on forks, PM me with year, I've forgotten already  :-[
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: stroker crazy on Jul 18, 2012, 05:15:19
That's one serious front end!

Crazy


(http://blg.mypicturetown.com/cache/62PPgnDHjmSAqViLKu1prRbKuLPN-2VBW%25c3i0HKxkzOmN6j6%26abv-udH_.SW31C/item.JPG?)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 18, 2012, 05:21:41
Hey PJ, forks are 2002. I put the spacer in the wheel which made a difference, the wheel is dead centre and the parts you made sit perfectly flush with outside of fork leg, I still get giddy looking at them... they're beautifully engineered!

The gap to the rotors is 7mm (if I centralise the caliper groove on the disc. I cannot use the original bolt hole either as this leaves one corner of the pads sitting off the disc. So I dropped the lower mount and brought it in a bit which sets the calipers at 3pm almost and means they sit the pads perfectly in the wear marks.

Did I do it right?

Edit: oh and my question was about the difference in rotor spacers not the axel spacers. Doesn't really matter I was just asking why they were slightly different.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 18, 2012, 14:53:30
Sounds like you got it all sorted, not sure if I told you about the left side spacer?
Originally the second set of rotor spacers were identical, it just didn't work so I had to modify them
I still have  a pair of CBR rotor to CB350, 360, 350f/400f hub adapters for use with stock forks if anyone 'needs' some  ;)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 19, 2012, 08:23:10
Anyone got recommendations on what front master cylinder to use on my twin disc setup.

Haven't done the sums yet but it sounds complicated. Don't want wooden feel that causes lockup without any feel or indeed not enough stopping power.

I'm sure something like this has a 12-14mm piston, would that work or should I be looking at something like a GSX-R front brake MC setup?

http://bit.ly/NSTMIS
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: hillsy on Jul 19, 2012, 10:03:02
You want at least a 14mm MC. That one you listed doesn't have a stated size, but they say it's for "125 to 400cc sports bike" so I'd be thinking it's for a single disc and probably about 11mm.


Any newer twin disc sports bike will have the one you're after (R1/6, ZX6/9, GSXR1000/750/600, CBR1000rr, etc). Just get a billet reservoir and a set of cheapie shorty levers and you'll be good to go.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 20, 2012, 05:01:26
hillsy would a 5/8 master cylinder work? That works out to be 15.87mm.

I was reading that you need to take into account the rotor size and the leverage you get from that on the wheel and it's stopping power. I would imagine the CBR F3 wheel is about 17" anyway so shouldn't be too different.

Dime City offers 5/8 MC's which seem a fair bit cheaper than sportbike ones which are mega $$$$.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 20, 2012, 06:31:43
Trying to work this mc sizing for my bike using this chart:

http://www.vintagebrake.com/mastercylinder.htm

Says 27:1 is ideal for opposing twin calipers. F3 calipers are 25mm x 2 on each side. This apparently is ideally a 14-15mm master cylinder piston.

Have I worked it out correctly?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 20, 2012, 11:51:31
14mm would give better feel (modulation)
5/8" will move the fluid but won't give as good a feel
You can get used to it, early Yamaha's had terrible brake feel, like squeezing a rock, Kawasaki was exact opposite, lever came almost all the way to bars, felt 'mushy' then locked wheel up (the 70's were a great time for experimenting  ::) )
Either will work
 You could also work out total area of all the caliper pistons then divide by area of master cylinder piston
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 21, 2012, 04:59:19
Of course I took the time to do a bit more on the bike today. First up was to strip the forks so that I could give them a good clean, check the internals and fill them with fresh oil.

A trip to the local bike shop for some 5w fork oil and a trip to the local hardware store for a BIG adjustable spanner as my 32mm socket wouldn't fit over the preload adjuster.

Bought a great video a few weeks ago which detailed stripping the forks so I knew exactly what to do, however I've stripped a tonne of dirtbike forks in my time so didn't think it would be a challenge.

All went well, drained some filthy oil and had a crack at compressing the spring by hand. Didn't work!!! So I made a fork spring compressor:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0e551f43.jpg)

Here it is on the forks with the compressing attachment (a ratchet strap ;)):

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/38ae7fdb.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/f15a76ff.jpg)

All apart:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/39c41c45.jpg)

Gave them a good scrub as there was plenty of grimy black stuff all over them. They came up really well, they were a bargain for only $240. Only a few scratches on the outer tubes which I can turn to the inside. After cleaning all the internals and polishing the legs with 1200 grit, I put them back together.

Turns out my fork seal driver for my dirtbikes doesn't fit, so I made one out of some water pipe:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/313ab3f7.jpg)

And all back together:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/1c361c5f.jpg)

On the bike:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/a5f84b83.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/e4aac01a.jpg)

It was only 3pm so my attention turned to the exhaust collars PJ made for me, the plan was to gentle polish, not mirror because I'm too lazy for that and can't be arsed with the sanding, but a clean up and mild polish would make them a little more visually appealing.

Before:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/c5f40004.jpg)

Screwed to the bench to make sanding easier:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/68cb846f.jpg)

After some 160, 240, 360, 600, emery and tripoli:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/a6826a01.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Jul 21, 2012, 05:39:34
Aint them purdy!!!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 21, 2012, 14:26:17
Hi Ed,
Neat idea, looks like it worked well
Not sure if you noticed, the axle adapters have different sized ends for the head and nut of axle. (can't remember if I told you already?)
Clearanced for 17mm socket one side and 19mm the other

Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 21, 2012, 18:46:40
Not sure if you noticed, the axle adapters have different sized ends for the head and nut of axle. (can't remember if I told you already?)
Clearanced for 17mm socket one side and 19mm the other

Yeah I figured that out. I assumed the shallow side was for the nut so a locking pin could be put through.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 21, 2012, 22:20:25
 ;) 8)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 28, 2012, 05:06:31
Not a great day on the tools today, a bunch of effort with little to show for it.

First up the obligatory tidy up:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/b5844876.jpg)

Thought I would tidy up the front rotor and polish it. Tried to setup the drill press so it would spin it for me, worked ok but not brilliant:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/3e962708.jpg)

In the end had to grab a round file at go at the hub to get rid of the casting marks. After a polish it turns out my plan had worked ok on the outside of the hub and the spacers, but the inside was still rough :(

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/e63c5873.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/2b7de1d4.jpg)

I think I'm going to get someone to whack them on a lathe, remove the centre ridges and then polish both the front and rear hubs for me. Can't be arsed this time on these pieces.

Also bought some 6mm MDF today for mocking up my caliper carriers, turns out I need to push the calipers towards the rear of the bike about 3mm as they are catching the pad clips slightly. Will post pics tomorrow when I redo them.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 28, 2012, 05:12:51
I probably shouldn't have posted pic of the one I did  ;D
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 28, 2012, 05:19:16
I probably shouldn't have posted pic of the one I did  ;D

No you shouldn't ;)

I'm actually going to get someone to machine the ridges off and then polish both hubs. These are a bit difficult for me and I don't have the patience.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 28, 2012, 05:52:07
I think you HAD a lot of patience but now you have a lot of parts and want it done  ;D
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 28, 2012, 06:42:47
Hahahahahah, not quite at that stage yet PJ thank god. It's just the hubs, really struggle with the contours to get it polished. Was contemplating a Dremel or air version this morning but not sure if I would use it enough considering its a good $150 for the base model here.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Jul 28, 2012, 07:23:57
Was contemplating a Dremel or air version this morning but not sure if I would use it enough considering its a good $150 for the base model here.

Ah dont you love justification  ;D probably the only thing holding me back from buying that Murcielago  ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 28, 2012, 13:57:51
You'll probably need a bigger compressor for air tools?
There must be something similar to Harbor Freight or Northern tool in Oz selling Chinese stuff?
Electric die grinder with a router speed controller works pretty good and has at least 5~6 times the power of a Dremel (probably more)
 It would be about $50~$60 here for both
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Jul 28, 2012, 14:02:28
Hint: no point in polishing between the flanges - it's almost impossible to keep polished once the wheel is built.  Fins/ridges add something to rigidity, so I'd leave them and just paint between the flanges and polish the outsides.  Just another opinion to consider.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ducatiboy on Jul 28, 2012, 19:30:01
I have to agree with Teazer's comment re polishing. Polished surfaces look fantastic but require a huge amount of maintenance to keep that way. If your bike is going to sit in the living room as a display piece (which I suspect it is not!) all well and good. But if you are going to ride it the polish will very quickly become the millstone around your neck! It's hard enough to keep a bike that gets ridden clean let alone polished!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 29, 2012, 02:17:13
Good valid point about polishing, I've already done mine several months ago though
 Rigidity won't be an issue, you would need braces going across the hub on the front to make hub 'stronger', the spoke flanges are not better supported by the ribs
Radial 'fins' are just weight and styling on disc hub.
I wouldn't do the rear hub though, drum brake needs all the surface area it can get plus radial ribs will help keep drum in shape
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 29, 2012, 04:27:37
Thanks gents. I think I'm still going to polish, I clean my KTM polished hubs, it's a bit of a pain but I can get my hand in there. If its too much of a pain I will strip the wheels and look at something else.

Decided I'm not going to remove front ribs, not because of strength but I want them to match the rear hub. So it's just polish all round.

Today's progress. I redid the caliper carriers, pushing the calipers back 3mm as there was slight fouling. These carriers will be made out of 8mm steel plate and then I will use shims/washers to get the right offset. Had a go today using some washers and it looks good. Spun the wheel without pads in the calipers and didn't hear any scraping. Hopefully these are strong enough not to flex:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/35e6b34f.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/7343fcf9.jpg)

Clearance at the calipers with the washers to shim:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/5f50c93a.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/9e761060.jpg)

Phatness on the front end;

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/3c60829a.jpg)

Also got a smart recommendation from PJ on how to test the rear tyre width, use my 120 x 18 KTM dirt rim. Glad I did as I didn't realise how tight it was going to be in there. The knobs are 118mm across with not much to spare:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/45c4522b.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/a6767b8d.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/6041a5cd.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/e6e28d7e.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/5180885c.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0b9240e3.jpg)

I hate the look, not a tracker bloke as it turns out ;) I hope it looks better with a road tyre on there.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Jul 29, 2012, 06:39:16
Shouldn't there be something mounting the lower part of the caliper for strength here?
 
 
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 29, 2012, 08:32:27
Shouldn't there be something mounting the lower part of the caliper for strength here?

Nah, that's the brake pad pin hole. I've used the same mounts for the calipers so hopefully it should be all good.

Only change to stock is that they are mounted at 3 o clock rather than 1:30
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Jul 29, 2012, 08:53:02
Sorry for the distraction.. carry on.  ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 29, 2012, 18:39:08
I like the look of that
Have you decided on rims yet?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 29, 2012, 21:35:08
I like the look of that
Have you decided on rims yet?

Yep:

Fr - 2.15 x 18 {100 x 90 x 18}
Rr - 2.75 x 18 {120 x 80 x 18}

Buying the following from Buchanans:

Sun Rims (black anodised)
SS spokes and nipples
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 29, 2012, 21:38:21
Oh... and selling one of these to pay for it:

(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS3acyDVOeldHLFXqJG3saHOyG7tQlnFyLNHlTKfzeupnXI--Es-g)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ronnie on Jul 30, 2012, 02:32:52
Yea, but aren't Buchanans the tits? You get what you pay for with those...

And suppossedly you only need 1 nut in most applications...right? haha
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jul 30, 2012, 07:05:44
LOL, that's funny, don't care who you are  ;D
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ducatiboy on Jul 30, 2012, 17:44:30
Quote
Oh... and selling one of these to pay for it:


 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 31, 2012, 03:29:36
Well slap me on the arse and call me an Indian...

(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ_6cyVyUU7SK8P4WkltMei2cNHLGCDyw1-tyWE1Xp4DGWk5XMxOw)

The left one (always been my favourite ;)) is safe. The missus has approved a loan for my Buchanans purchase as my ability to repay a loan is much better than my ability to save the cash (I bought the GSXR forks last time I got $300 burning a hole in my pocket).

Looks like the order will be placed in the next couple of days. Need to get hubs over to be polished.

A good day for the bike which remains unnamed...
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ronnie on Jul 31, 2012, 05:02:03
I want a missus that issues loans..... sadface..


Haha, that would be dangerous though, unless she was loaded!
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jul 31, 2012, 06:26:05
I want a missus that issues loans..... sadface..


Haha, that would be dangerous though, unless she was loaded!

FYI it's my money, she is just the gatekeeper ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ronnie on Jul 31, 2012, 09:06:11
Yea, I already know the phrase," her money is her money and your money is her money" haha!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Aug 01, 2012, 00:38:05
Did you re-fill/bleed the steering damper yet?
I would use Silkolene RSF as it has the highest viscosity index (doesn't change viscosity as much with temperature)
You just did forks so I'm sure you have some 'oil' left over  ;D
I put in 10wt but haven't fitted it to bike so don't know how well it's going to work yet
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 01, 2012, 03:12:14
Did you re-fill/bleed the steering damper yet?
I would use Silkolene RSF as it has the highest viscosity index (doesn't change viscosity as much with temperature)
You just did forks so I'm sure you have some 'oil' left over  ;D
I put in 10wt but haven't fitted it to bike so don't know how well it's going to work yet

Not yet PJ, I am trying to work out how the fark the thing attaches to the bike. It's got the mount on the front of the lower triple and I assume the body mounts to the headstem but when I do this the end hits the opposite fork leg.

How are people mounting them, not happy with the front mount as its pretty big and would look stupid underneath the headlight. Was probably going to get another one (longer side mount version) to attach to the side of the frame an use of of the threaded holes underneath the lower triple.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Aug 01, 2012, 03:24:37
I would say cut off the front mount on yoke, connect the rod end to either fork leg or mount underneath and the body gets mounted on frame center line.
Did I tell you I used a syringe to add oil?
 real easy, just move rod real slow so you don't push the oil back out and only have the air bubbles.
I think damper is better than new, they always seem to have a rough spot where the air bubbles cavitate in damper piston
 
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 01, 2012, 06:34:01
I might re-look at it. Might have the damper cross over from one side of the triple clamp to the other side of the frame.

Got a syringe and some 5w ready to go, just need to work out the mounting on the frame. That bearing on the body makes it flop around a bit. Anyone got pics of a GSXR damper mounted?

Also putting the order in for the rims. Anyone know a way of working out the right offset? I was going to just centre the rim on the hub.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Aug 01, 2012, 12:56:54
The rear could have up to 1/4" offset but I build them centered for 360's (there are 3 different spoke lengths on some but not all wheels)
 I build the front centered although I think it should have 1/8" offset?
Did you cut the old spokes out?
If you unscrewed them you can check lengths, if you only have 2 sizes, build centered, you can always adjust by fitting to fork or swing arm
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 02, 2012, 21:07:03
Cheers PJ, ordering today :)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 03, 2012, 07:24:27
We have rims and spokes on order :)

Hubs will be sent away for polishing soon too, then will be getting it all together with some sticky rubber in early September. We are not far from a rolling chassis, only taken me since Mar to get wheels on it.

Flogging some excess bits on eBay too so hope to have an order in for clip ons too over the next day or so. Looking at these bad boys which I assume fit over the GSXR forks at the top near the triple clamp:

http://bit.ly/Prfiou

Also plan on making some headlight ears too using SS hose clamps and 3mm Alu I've got lying around. Fingers crossed it doesn't look like shit ;)

Sent my caliper carrier off to be made into 2 this week in 8mm steel. Should have them back in a week or so too, then I need to revisit the calipers as I didn't paint them wet enough. Strip and paint or just lay another coat over the top?

Slowly getting there. As my mum used to say "slowly, slowly, catchy monkee".

Not much left to buy ;)

Tyres
Headlight bucket and lens
Front brake lever/mc and clutch perch
Front braided brake lines
Grips
Swingarm brace and rear shock mount steel
Shock
Brake light
Carb rebuild
Paint frame
Swingarm bushes (bronze)
Drive train
TTR400 rear-sets
SS tube for indicator stalks
Paint tins and frame

Oh and then the motor:

466 pistons (and boring)
New gaskets
Cam chain
TTR400 cam chain tensioner U
Cam chain sliders
Cam fixed and journal
Primary chain
Elec ignition
Coils
Crank bearings

Then BOOM! Ready to ride and look farkin cool :D
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Aug 03, 2012, 13:36:31
Bars look pretty good, they also have a bunch of other neat stuff  :D
Pretty universal fitting, there are only a couple of companies making forks for majority of Japanese bikes (Kayaba or Showa) makes life easier when swapping parts around
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: eyhonda on Aug 03, 2012, 13:37:45
For hose clamps, get the nicer stainless steel T-bolt types, not the standard hardware store ones.

They're all over the web:
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Product-Line/Turbonetics-T-Bolt-Clamps/
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 04, 2012, 03:15:33
For hose clamps, get the nicer stainless steel T-bolt types, not the standard hardware store ones.

They're all over the web:
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Product-Line/Turbonetics-T-Bolt-Clamps/

Already on it. Will be ordering 4 of these bad boys any day now:

http://bit.ly/OPmOxf
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ronnie on Aug 04, 2012, 04:13:40
neevo, where are you getting the new cam chain sliders? Also, crank bearings? When I get back home I'm taking the rest of the case apart and will be looking over those bearings. If I need new ones I'd love to have a heads up on where to get them..
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 04, 2012, 05:15:03
ronnie bearings are pretty easy:

http://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/
http://www.cmsnl.com/

Not sure I've seen new sliders though, mine are ok but I would prefer new considering the rest of the motor would be new. I may settle on eBay ones though, as long as they are better than the current ones. Let me know if you find any.

Did 30 mins tonight on the rear sprocket. Decided to remove the guard and freshen it up a little bit:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/5c85810b.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0ae8c214.jpg)

Teeth are in great shape. Trying to reuse parts if they are ok as opposed to buying new every time:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/d1ddd8b2.jpg)

Quick dip in the kerosene and it scrubbed up ok, will put it in the sandblasting cabinet tomorrow to finish off the process:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/f974a885.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Aug 04, 2012, 06:25:54


Not much left to buy ;)

Tyres
Headlight bucket and lens
Front brake lever/mc and clutch perch
Front braided brake lines
Grips
Swingarm brace and rear shock mount steel
Shock
Brake light
Carb rebuild
Paint frame
Swingarm bushes (bronze)
Drive train
TTR400 rear-sets
SS tube for indicator stalks
Paint tins and frame

Oh and then the motor:

466 pistons (and boring)
New gaskets
Cam chain
TTR400 cam chain tensioner U
Cam chain sliders
Cam fixed and journal
Primary chain
Elec ignition
Coils
Crank bearings



gee, just a little list mate  ;D

Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 04, 2012, 06:43:01
gee, just a little list mate  ;D

Forgot a few too unfortunately!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Aug 04, 2012, 06:47:43
Forgot a few too unfortunately!

Haha, there is always "just 1 more thing"  ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ronnie on Aug 04, 2012, 08:55:34
Hey that David Silvers site has the cam guides...

http://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/CB400F0-SUPER-SPORT-1975-USA/part_162262/

http://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/CB400F0-SUPER-SPORT-1975-USA/part_162263/
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 04, 2012, 09:02:09
Ah yeah of course, I'm an idiot. David Silver has most parts luckily, most are reasonable on the wallet too :)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ronnie on Aug 04, 2012, 09:39:05
Yea, I would order them all right now but I'm not sure what bearing I need yet.. But at least I know where to get the guides now! Thanks a bunch.. I'm hoping to get my jugs and head sent to Golden Age shop in Virginia. Guy specializes in vintage bikes. plus he does ceramic and dry lube coatings for pretty reasonable.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 05, 2012, 02:44:56
Did a spot more pootling on the bike today. First up I got the sprocket in the sandblasting cabinet, not sure on what I'm going to do with it but think I may just paint it:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/e8bda66d.jpg)

Next up were some steering stops for the new triples. I was planning on cutting a piece of metal to weld to the existing stop but then had a brainwave, why not drill and tap the lower triple and put some hex head bolts in. So I went to Bunnings and bought some SS 5mm hex head bolts:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/c0c6656f.jpg)

Drilling the triple was a pain as it wouldn't fit on the drill press however I got it with the hand drill in the end. Tapped and bolts in:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/eaa9b33f.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0d93d25e.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/bf21d0c3.jpg)

About 10-15mm clearance to the tank:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/18e847ee.jpg)

Next up I turned my attention to the damper. Will run the GSXR one for a little while, then I'm going to look for an aftermarket one with adjustment. Mocking it up with this so that I can just look for a GSXR aftermarket one in the future.

I didn't want to front mount it so I looked for alternative options. One of these bolt holes underneath looked ideal but it needed to be larger:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/e033cb12.jpg)

Drilled it out and retapped it:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/71a99264.jpg)

Looking to weld a stalk on the frame to accept the other end, anyone think this will work? The position on thr lower triple means it's only using about an inch of travel:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/f96cf101.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/3424e217.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/9d6c3b1e.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/fd2fa863.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Aug 05, 2012, 13:55:00
Looking good.
 Mounting will work, if damping is too light, re-fill damper with thicker oil.
It's not too difficult with the 3mm screw, as long as you have no air inside it will work fine
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 05, 2012, 22:12:19
Looking good.
 Mounting will work, if damping is too light, re-fill damper with thicker oil.
It's not too difficult with the 3mm screw, as long as you have no air inside it will work fine

I refilled with 5w yesterday, a bitch to get all the bubbles out but in the end got it working beautifully.

Damper is there only to stop dangerous headshake, hopefully it is enough to do that.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 12, 2012, 04:43:03
Redid my calipers today as the final coat of paint wasn't wet enough and the gloss paint didn't really come out gloss. Pics later.

Also thought I would see if I could make a replacement stator cover as mine is completely farked:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/30e58423.jpg)

Bolted some 3mm Alu to the old piece as a template and got a 40 grit flap disc out. Turned out well an didn't take long, just need to work out how to dome it. If I can get that bit sorted I will get someone to engrave it for me with an outer line, oldskool Honda logo and the name of the bike:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/1ddc2a07.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/eebdd3a0.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 14, 2012, 03:08:17
Finally finished the calipers. Didn't get them perfect as the logos are a but messy because they have been sanded a bit too much (by me previously :(). Oh well, they look good at the moment, nice and glossy and they are super smooth after a thorough clean and greasing of the pins:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/F4BF0F44-2426-42AB-AB5E-A34B912C802F-407-0000005C3DDC95B1.jpg)

Hopefully my calipers carriers are finished soon as I haven't heard anything yet.

Also PJ I have a fix for the steering stem. Getting someone to machine out the top clamp slightly to accept the old washer, won't affect strength and will mean there is a surface to tighten the nut down onto. Pics when it comes back.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 14, 2012, 22:53:34
So exciting to be buying stuff to go back on the bike. This arrived this morning and I think it's gorgeous:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/699B18C7-A0D1-4DDA-B701-A851693D35F2-249-0000003358194805.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/767DC3DC-FEE7-487C-B6D8-B4E84A84C5A3-249-000000335D5D7686.jpg)

Already held it up against the bike and it's going to look killer. Starting to resemble a bike rather than a bunch of metal,
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Aug 14, 2012, 23:56:21
Always good when a plan comes together  ;)
I think I know what your doing with top yoke, recess washer into it?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 15, 2012, 00:20:03
I think I know what your doing with top yoke, recess washer into it?

Exactly. There is plenty of meat on the top yoke and it should look nice with a flush mounted silver washer.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Aug 15, 2012, 01:48:38
It's probably still thicker than the original even after machining?
Looks like I'll be doing mine as well, didn't take the extra thickness of GSXR top yoke into account when I did stems (I did account for the bottom one though  ::) )
 If there is a next time, I'll get it perfect  ;D
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: pandknz on Aug 15, 2012, 01:59:38
Hey neevo, where did you get the headlight?  what was it worth?

I need one!

nice job on the bike so far, I keep checking for updates and am never disapointed  8)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 15, 2012, 02:36:30
I got the headlight off a mob in Melbourne, VIC, Australia. There are some cheaper versions around too though with the same shape, but I was worried about the quality of the finish so I paid a bit extra and I'm not disappointed. All up it was $130 AUD, and the quality is superb.

Links (top one is where I bought mine):

http://bit.ly/TDNxxW
http://bit.ly/RO0qWd
http://bit.ly/RO0OE5

I nearly bought the bottom cheap one but didn't think the finish was as good. Although the price is very appealing.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: pandknz on Aug 15, 2012, 02:52:04
Cheers mate, I'm up in Brissy so I'll check them out for my CB360 
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 15, 2012, 03:10:38
No problem. Their shipping is pretty quick too and it comes with a halogen bulb.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 16, 2012, 05:00:09
Top triple with milled out section. Bit deeper than the 3mm washer so no worries for enough thread now. Probably need to repaint it though:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/E9153618-C513-45FF-AF81-5A10975DF982-1990-000002655087018B.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/5B46D3F8-5D94-452D-9DA8-B163BEF73685-1990-000002652AB9D824.jpg)

Also got the front hub back from the same lovely man after some gentle polishing:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/38EAEA98-9AF6-4D2D-AAFE-9579F147F834-1990-000002657E764CB2.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: RustyOlive on Aug 16, 2012, 09:14:59
WOW!! You've been busy! LOL
Haven't been around in a while, Looks like your build is coming along nicely!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Aug 16, 2012, 09:45:27
Cool, looking good
I'm glad you found someone to do machining local, bit difficult working from 8,000 miles away  ;)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 16, 2012, 19:40:59
Cool, looking good
I'm glad you found someone to do machining local, bit difficult working from 8,000 miles away  ;)

Crazy expensive compared to your work though PJ.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Aug 16, 2012, 23:26:49
Really?
 I'm still living in the 70's ;D
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 16, 2012, 23:56:04
Really?
 I'm still living in the 70's ;D

Yep, glad you didn't notice when you were making my parts ;)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 20, 2012, 05:24:37
Oh dear god I love these things!!!!!!!!

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/5A4A3620-E935-41D8-AB1F-12AA149B53A6-1684-000004443CBF7823.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0CA98CBA-38DE-42CC-AE92-2D948697730D-1684-0000044447EF09A8.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/198C8727-642D-4D50-A6C2-0CEDBEC5FA40-1684-000004444301A6A7.jpg)

The clip ons were only $66 delivered too!!!!! What the hell!!! Fark I love China!

Clamps came in too as you can all see, nice finish in SS, time to start working out the headlight mounting.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 20, 2012, 06:12:58
Just couldn't resist the urge to test fit:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/FFAFB694-6EA4-4E63-B3AE-C63271AD758C-1748-000004546A2709AB.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/31FF510A-E90E-4A44-B684-DA22184CBB5E-1748-0000045465611398.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/22EA5AE7-8C68-4CA3-BD97-0F1795539849-1748-000004546023BF24.jpg)

Also had a crack at the headlight mount. Looks killer from the side but it's a good 2" out to get to the headlight sides (1" on each side). Think I might look at how I can make the brackets in approx 3 pieces, incorporating some angles and bolts for a tough modern look:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/976E8381-DD2E-45B5-B300-1762CCBE219C-1748-000004546F05A76F.jpg)

eg:

(http://www.holeshot.com/holeshot/images/tn_hs_headlight_bracket_2.jpg)

(http://www.j-mart.biz/j-parts/images/shift-up/405027-03.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ducatiboy on Aug 20, 2012, 08:06:57
Wow making good progress Neevo. Looks like you may have got onto the same little Chinese guy who made my clip-ons. They look exactly the same but mine are black. Incredible what they can make for such a small amount of money ;D
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 20, 2012, 08:28:05
Incredible what they can make for such a small amount of money ;D

You're not wrong! I stay away from the mega cheap stuff but the mid priced stuff from China is as good as the top notch stuff available locally I reckon.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ducatiboy on Aug 20, 2012, 17:20:20
Yes you almost feel sorry for local manufacturers. It would be tough to make a living competing with the Chinese in making stuff. We probably should just stick to digging stuff out of the ground...

Those headlight ears/clamps in the last picture look sensational! Who's selling them? Might have a look for my bike
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 21, 2012, 05:43:50
http://www.j-mart.biz/j-parts/images/shift-up/405027-03.jpg
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 23, 2012, 00:52:25
Rims and SS spokes are in from Buchanans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Was worried about suitable "phatness" with only 2.15 and 2.75 but it's bigger than I expected. Pics when I get home from work.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 23, 2012, 06:08:36
Boom!!! Love it:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/26185364-2B14-4632-AC75-A5C54B664424-4405-000009E7E2B69A95.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/7C1AC1C3-AC3E-4120-9986-466AC3EB950D-4405-000009E7DE663DA0.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/630EA08B-22B9-4D2E-9244-D2E588E388C7-4405-000009E7DA1C6445.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/D80F40B7-DE35-4E97-B38E-AD5311CEF3FB-4405-000009E7D57A5A6E.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/C6720119-CD26-4653-95E3-CCB5A59E58E7-4405-000009E7CEE1A98F.jpg)

Had a play go at lacing the front and I'm a bit stumped with the pattern. Sure I can work it out from google pics but if anyones got some pointers that would be great. I'm assuming:

1. 90 degrees come out inside hub
2. 90+ degrees come out outside of hub
3. Same spoke goes in every 4 holes
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ronnie on Aug 23, 2012, 08:10:48
So pretty... me likey.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 23, 2012, 08:52:09
Had a crack using a piccie off the interwebs, did I do it right?

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/3F0C848F-8072-4D15-B7F9-C5A27857F855-4553-00000A320A2EF49F.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/7A4CBE06-918A-4318-8E33-FB27910C3F13-4553-00000A3211493CB5.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/6E7EAE36-4566-4537-88EF-E0A13CC42342-4553-00000A321AFC5278.jpg)

A million miles away from being trued but all I have to do is undo the nipples, put the oil on and have a go with the right offset.

Couldn't resist putting the discs on quickly. They look HUGE on the wheels... eeeeeeeeeexcellent!

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0D55AC29-208B-443F-9161-9E0F0379AA27-4553-00000A321F7D8402.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: JustinLonghorn on Aug 23, 2012, 09:26:02
Looks pretty damn purrdy to me, sir.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: eyhonda on Aug 23, 2012, 11:51:59
The outer spokes should angle clockwise, on either side.     It looks like the other side is angled counterclockwise.     Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.    I've laced wheels incorrectly.   So, I know it can be laced wrong.   Reference stock wheels that have not been disassembled.   

Otherwise, awesome looking wheels!    A little vintage, a little modern --- nice mix!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Aug 23, 2012, 14:35:07
As long as the valve hole is between sets, (in middle of 'V') the spoke direction won't matter too much (and depends on how rim was drilled
Internet has been down since Monday, still don't have phone line
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: eyhonda on Aug 23, 2012, 14:47:04
I suppose you are correct in that sense.  If it assembles OK, it might be OK.  Me, I just wanted it to at least be assembled the same as the factory.    It may have to do with braking in one direction and accelerating in another.    Not sure.    The first time I laced a set of wheels, I noticed it was laced "backwards" as compared to stock wheels.   So, I just re-laced them to look the same.   At this point, it won't really take much effort to redo them (if not yet trued).   It's practice if anything.   If you check my build or website, I used a method to tape the spokes at the "cross" to ease assembly prior to placing the rim and to minimize scratching the rim.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ducatiboy on Aug 23, 2012, 15:31:08
oohh la la :) :) :)

Look great Neevo
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 23, 2012, 19:55:05
Thanks gents. I have some irregular spoke length at the nipple which makes me think I've got something wrong as they should all be the same I assume.

I will pull it apart tonight on the living room floor with a cold Coopers Pale Ale or 2 ;)

Any other builds on lacing correctly are appreciated as using pics off the Internet is less than ideal.

Do I have the pattern right?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Bert Jan on Aug 23, 2012, 20:08:37
yes you have. trick i use is to screw the nipples just to the point where the spoke tread dissapears. when i've put all spokes in i give all the nipples 1 twist at the time, so 36x 1 turn. do that until they're snug ( no play) don't be smart and twist the first nipple 4 times as it will offset the hub. all spokes 1 turn at a time. when they're snug, do 1/2 turn all the nipples, and then 1/4 until they're thight. check for true now and then and adjust no more than 1/2 twist per nipple at a time.

tedious? yes. satisfaction? fuck yeah!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Bert Jan on Aug 23, 2012, 20:10:25
oh and dont pull the wheel apart, no need to do that. unscrew all nipples to the point where tread on spoke dissapears in nipple and then do as i told above^^^^
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 23, 2012, 20:15:09
As long as the valve hole is between sets, (in middle of 'V') the spoke direction won't matter too much (and depends on how rim was drilled
Internet has been down since Monday, still don't have phone line

PJ valve hole is at 10.30 on this pic and not in the v but it is in the middle of a set. This is fixed though due to the angle of the nipple holes. Do I have it right?

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/6E7EAE36-4566-4537-88EF-E0A13CC42342-4553-00000A321AFC5278.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 23, 2012, 20:18:17
oh and dont pull the wheel apart, no need to do that. unscrew all nipples to the point where tread on spoke dissapears in nipple and then do as i told above^^^^

Cheers Bert. I was only going to pull nipples off if the pattern was wrong but it's hard to get wrong with the hole angles and spoke directions. I was a little puzzled that some of the spokes are not the same length on the nipple. That might be fixed with your tightening technique though.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 23, 2012, 20:24:44
I suppose you are correct in that sense.  If it assembles OK, it might be OK.  Me, I just wanted it to at least be assembled the same as the factory.    It may have to do with braking in one direction and accelerating in another.    Not sure.    The first time I laced a set of wheels, I noticed it was laced "backwards" as compared to stock wheels.   So, I just re-laced them to look the same.   At this point, it won't really take much effort to redo them (if not yet trued).   It's practice if anything.   If you check my build or website, I used a method to tape the spokes at the "cross" to ease assembly prior to placing the rim and to minimize scratching the rim.

eyhonda I will undo and relace with the outers facing backwards. Don't want to lace them up different to stock and it may be causing my funny spoke length issue (you never know)

oohh la la :) :) :)

Look great Neevo

Cheers boss :)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Aug 23, 2012, 20:35:39
my front looks the same.  outers point back and inners point forwards
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 23, 2012, 21:03:15
my front looks the same.  outers point back and inners point forwards

Most of the pics on the Internet are the same as mine, outer spokes pointing forward. Anyone got a definitive answer on this or does it not really matter?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: eyhonda on Aug 23, 2012, 21:53:52
Got half right. Like I said, the outers on EITHER side are clockwise.   Inners are CCW.  Flip over and the pattern is the same.   

Now, it sorta looks like the wheel in the above pic is opposite if you flip it over.   The side you see is pattern correct.  Flip it over and (I think), the spokes angle opposite.  Meaning outers are CCW and inners are CW.   It's just a point to check.  Hard to tell unless you flip it and take a pic.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: eyhonda on Aug 23, 2012, 21:55:26
my front looks the same.  outers point back and inners point forwards

Yes, from the left side.   Check the right side.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Aug 24, 2012, 02:20:18
Valve stem should be between the 'open V', 12:00 in pic
 If it is, it's all good
OK, I see the 'shiny' bit where valve stem comes through rim
 Just checked several wheels, inner spokes one side match outer's on the other side, even on stock wheels
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 24, 2012, 02:24:57
Anyone have bearing numbers for front and rear hubs? Looking to put new ones in both ends as they are cheap insurance. Looked everywhere on the net with no results :(
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Aug 24, 2012, 02:29:53
Fronts are 6302 RS
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: hillsy on Aug 24, 2012, 02:30:55
Look over here for future reference:
 
http://www.thebikebearingshop.co.uk/C1.htm (http://www.thebikebearingshop.co.uk/C1.htm)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 24, 2012, 02:33:17
Awesome PJ & hillsy. Appreciated.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 24, 2012, 06:48:56
Stripped the front wheel tonight so I could give the hub a final polish and also see if I could put the outside spokes round the other way. Turns out they are different directions each side:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/1CE12E60-EA17-44EA-AD67-7E0635AFA641-570-000000B720E44E3B.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/5DC2EA9F-FBEB-4311-80FF-12D21604350D-570-000000B7F6C8271A.jpg)

Also managed to catch my local bearing shop before they closed for a pair of these. Will be popping the seals and packing with grease:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/8906F197-DB94-4471-B4E3-E0E2214A9766-570-000000B726492B12.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Aug 24, 2012, 07:38:13
loving the wheel, very cool 8)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: hillsy on Aug 24, 2012, 09:23:09

Also managed to catch my local bearing shop before they closed for a pair of these. Will be popping the seals and packing with grease:


They are sealed bearings - there's no need to grease them (they will last longer than your bike will).
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MotorbikeBruno on Aug 24, 2012, 11:22:17
They are sealed bearings - there's no need to grease them (they will last longer than your bike will).

Yup, if installed correctly!  :o  When I got the CBR it had these...dude hit the center and messed it up...then rode on it for a while... Neevo those wheels are sick.

Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Aug 24, 2012, 17:17:59
Don't do that.  I checked the last wheel I built and it's the same and I'm thinking "Oh dear" so I checked a stock wheel and that's how it's laced. Phew. It's fine.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 24, 2012, 18:34:04
Don't do that.  I checked the last wheel I built and it's the same and I'm thinking "Oh dear" so I checked a stock wheel and that's how it's laced. Phew. It's fine.

Is that for me teazer? About the spoke direction? Hopefully it means I've built it right, if not let me know and I will look at it again.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Aug 24, 2012, 20:29:38
Yes.  That was supposed to be the polite version of Whisky Tango Foxtrot.  Your wheels are fine.  Great choice of disks.  All the most fashionable bikes are wearing those this season.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 24, 2012, 20:36:31
Great choice of disks.  All the most fashionable bikes are wearing those this season.

Thought so, nearly went black but that's soooo last year. This year it's all about floral prints and CBR F3 twin discs.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 24, 2012, 20:38:44
9.32am and bearings are in with axle collars:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/ECEA267B-103F-483F-AB30-4A67E35F81B2-147-0000001B05633F46.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0700D0A7-DE4F-42DE-A76E-F2E224239DD3-147-0000001B0B1EF020.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/CC68AC79-A8E1-48AF-A28F-2F81EB9BDFCC-147-0000001B0F3B5922.jpg)

Now off to buy a cheapie dial indicator so I can true the front wheel.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Aug 24, 2012, 20:40:31
I hear that paisley is making a comeback.......  I'm making that up obviously.  I have zero idea and even less interest in what's fashionable. 

I may have a very wide paisley tie that needs to make a comeback before the moths finish it off.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Aug 24, 2012, 20:42:18
You don't need a DTI.  Use a texta/sharpie and stand to see the high spots without scratching the surface.  Start with concentricity and then do wobble and not the other way around.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Aug 24, 2012, 22:22:25
You don't need a DTI.  Use a texta/sharpie and stand to see the high spots without scratching the surface.  Start with concentricity and then do wobble and not the other way around.

I second that, tweak them puppy's up and have a roller  8)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 24, 2012, 22:35:12
Already bought it gents, oh well:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/2D782270-C1CC-4EC6-A460-5FEEEB674B68-147-00000025F85065C7.jpg)

Setup:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/F4ED5F7B-16EA-4F7C-AB0F-93A550BDBF27-147-00000026C501CAF2.jpg)

I've started on the outside and I think I'm reading it right, can someone help? I've got 2 low spots (I assume 1 is the weld seam), I am guessing I've got it down to 0.34mm is that correct? Is that acceptable?

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/C26AF3E7-7352-44FA-8AE2-689E6E1D7B93-147-00000025FCC031DA.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/F320AA47-3000-4CAC-AF02-039F050A9805-147-000000260165043B.jpg)

I'll wait to hear before I start on the lateral movement to ensure my tolerances are within spec.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Aug 24, 2012, 22:43:27
0.34mm is about 0.013" which is OK but could be better
You should aim for no more than 0.25mm when everything is done
I usually re-check after a few hundred miles (no need to remove tyres)
BTW, is that a high spot?
Push on DTI plunger to check which way needle moves (should be clockwise for high spot)
Make sure plunger points to center of axle
If it went counter clock, you have 0.76mm movement
It's also a good idea to have at least 3~4mm pre-load (the small dial on face is revolution counter)
DOH, just noticed you had 5mm pre-load  ::)
 I would put DTI on flat area where tyre bead fits rather than edge of rim
 
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 24, 2012, 23:01:58
Cheers PJ. Moved the DTI to the inside of the rim and tweaked it to 0.16mm, I assume that's good now?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 24, 2012, 23:42:36
Lateral runout is down to 0.16mm too:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/CBA1A5E3-78B1-4918-BDE0-26C2AE4D7788-147-00000030F38FE2EE.jpg)

What now? Double check what I did first then tighten spokes evenly?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 25, 2012, 04:56:54
Rechecked the vertical runout and it had shifted so I redid the vertical and the lateral once again. It looks good with the tiniest movement when I spin the wheel hard. I will get the local shop to double check it when they fit the tyres.

Put it all together with the fresh bearings, it works a treat thanks to PJ :)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/20402B5E-72EB-427D-9484-34DCDF061A17-147-0000003FE646671C.jpg)

Next up I started on the headlight brackets. The old plan went out the window and I'm now working on an alternate neater solution. I need to bend some 3mm Alu though and I don't have a brake. Anyone got any tips? Need it to be neat and reasonably accurate as I need to replicate the bends 3 times.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Aug 25, 2012, 13:23:20
Without checking manual, I think Honda actually allow around 0.080", (about 2.00) which can give a noticeable wobble at speed. (may be more, I've always adjusted wheels to around 0.010"/0.25mm)
 0.16mm is good
In fact, it's all looking good  8)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 25, 2012, 21:21:11
Without checking manual, I think Honda actually allow around 0.080", (about 2.00) which can give a noticeable wobble at speed.

I read that when researching truing which is when I posted asking about the 0.34mm thinking I had nailed it. Sounds like it should be smooth.

Cheers as always crazypj!
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 26, 2012, 00:29:31
Sunday here in Sydney and the weather is gorgeous. Still managed to work on the headlight bracket this morning. First up I used my MDF template to make a piece out of 3mm Alu:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/874EA4CD-8B7F-4FD7-884B-AD853EA0BCC3-751-000000C04E279D9B.jpg)

Then used this piece to make 3 more (total 4):

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/9654B48C-8A26-4DC4-BBD4-7E3FEA267CC4-751-000000C053A98357.jpg)

2 outside pieces were scored with the angle grinder and bent by hand in the vice to form a 90 degree bend:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/544BC8B2-8696-40A3-9654-BF198F70105D-751-000000C058DEB881.jpg)

Inside pieces were trimmed and tapped:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/BDECFC91-0B30-4061-ACBB-39F0A46B6518-751-000000C05DDB7DAA.jpg)

The finished bracket attached to the headlight bucket:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/36F16682-BE16-4840-9A0A-3F67C67B6117-751-000000C068FE3834.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/74E8CE52-D22E-4782-869E-7283BE1ED14D-751-000000C06E094A39.jpg)

Mounted on the bike, very pleased with how neat it is:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/5370A247-748B-4476-9FDB-652F8A4A47E9-751-000000C072FE0A2B.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/CCFDFFB5-0AD6-488F-8783-009F58B6BECC-751-000000C080394563.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/4A75FE12-67FD-4642-B94E-C556925CF597-751-000000C0848834FF.jpg)

Test fit with the bucket revealed its way too long but the headlight is rock solid so it's a good proof of concept:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/1F832B82-D3E2-4720-BAFB-9812EF2D202C-751-000000C088CA464B.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/FA16DFEC-AF89-4FAE-8C34-1CD46BCFBBBE-751-000000C08D083210.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/018DAC61-80A0-49AE-AFDF-D52E24F40A0C-751-000000C091A6D644.jpg)

So I took it all apart and have trimmed the mount down by about 1/3. Currently having a picnic but will get back to it afterwards and post the final concept.

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/C4475442-1C56-4F5A-9020-D48306942140-751-000000C503B6F066.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 26, 2012, 01:27:04
The day is perfect!

I'm going to abandon carbie rebuilding and head out-of-doors myself.

Crazy
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 26, 2012, 04:25:33
Sydney has been shit weather for 18 months now hadn't it, we got a crap summer last year. Looking forward to some sun!

Round 2 on the headlight bracket, much better. Thinking of brushing the Alu so it blends into the forks a bit, what's the best way of achieving this? I have a brass brush for the bench grinder, is this sufficient?

Results:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/D134886D-E1CC-425F-A364-29921C8FD48F-751-000000D82FAD645A.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/EFF8AC3F-AAFA-454B-923A-C11B3F1292D8-751-000000D834928E71.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/039B8305-4061-420E-804F-F000A99F07A0-751-000000D838A77CD7.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/B92CCC1F-5F04-4517-8C37-6EEF72A2D523-751-000000D83CBD4806.jpg)

I'm thinking of mounting my indicators in the middle of the bracket too which will help them blend a bit more too I hope.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Aug 26, 2012, 04:46:18
Loving those brackets mate, light looks to sit high though? could flip them? I used a Palm sander (not an orbital)  to finish some alloy edging for the wkshop, ive found that wire wheels never give you a brushed look. Heres a pic :)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 26, 2012, 05:36:44
Loving those brackets mate, light looks to sit high though? could flip them? I used a Palm sander (not an orbital)  to finish some alloy edging for the wkshop, ive found that wire wheels never give you a brushed look. Heres a pic :)

Cheers Andy. I could flip the brackets and see where the light ends up, what's normal placing?

First go was waaaay too high but I changed that, didn't think it looked too bad but will give flipping them a go to see what it looks like.

Got a hand sander or two so will have a go at using that to brush them.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Aug 26, 2012, 13:53:31
Light is fine where it it.
 Best way to get finish you want is red scotchbrite pad (they mke 'polishing' wheels for it)
BTW, to soften alloy plate for bending, rub some ordinary hand soap on one side then heat the other side until soap turns dark brown
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 26, 2012, 19:54:02
Light is fine where it it.
 Best way to get finish you want is red scotchbrite pad (they mke 'polishing' wheels for it)
BTW, to soften alloy plate for bending, rub some ordinary hand soap on one side then heat the other side until soap turns dark brown

I think Andy's got a point on the light, most bikes in my inspiritation folder have the top of the light in line with the top of the tank. I will flip it and see what difference it makes.

Top tip in the scotchbrite, does the Alu need protecting afterwards?

Need to have a go at softening Alu, looks like a very interesting bit of chemistry.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 28, 2012, 04:47:45
R6 front brake master arrived today with aftermarket levers too. Beautifully made and a slight gold tinge which is a nice surprise as it will match the forks perfectly!

Just need a clutch perch now:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/680A3132-F34B-4F03-9999-16E8B5D6BFD0-834-0000009E285DCBBB.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 30, 2012, 01:32:54
Got the best package ever on Wed, might slow the build down a little bit though:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/512E9C26-5A93-462A-80A4-C268D4C8C761-2516-0000027B7F3BCAA5.jpg)

Wife is a trooper as she did the whole thing without drugs. I'm not an emotional bloke (some would say a little dead inside), but this little girl is captivating and every time I think about her/look at her, I get a little choked up.

Needless to say I'm a very happy chappy.

Next pics will be the bike... I promise.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 30, 2012, 02:08:37
Congratulations!

This latest package will slow you down in more ways than one.

Crazy
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Aug 30, 2012, 02:32:56
Congrats to you and to the Missus.  Your little girl is a beauty. Bottom line is that bikes are fun, but people are what it's all about.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 30, 2012, 04:18:52
Cheers peeps!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: pandknz on Aug 30, 2012, 04:21:29
Congratulations Neevo

Hope mum and Baby are all well

a helper for future builds! 8)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 30, 2012, 05:55:03
a helper for future builds! 8)

Oh absolutely! Can't wait to teach her bike and sciencey stuff :)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: JustinLonghorn on Aug 30, 2012, 09:51:00
Congrats man! Trust me, you will want everything to slow down now. Time with her will absolutely fly by.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Kwality on Aug 30, 2012, 21:34:41
Congratulations!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ducatiboy on Aug 30, 2012, 23:38:34
Neevo congrats buddy! I'm not an emotional kind of guy either but I still tear up every time I think back to when my first daughter was born (doing the HSC this year :o). Enjoy it while it lasts mate, the time FLIES by. Oh and I'd recommend investing in a baseball bat for when the boys come sniffing around ;D ;D
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Aug 31, 2012, 06:04:12
Oh and I'd recommend investing in a baseball bat for when the boys come sniffing around ;D ;D

Bwahahahahahahah, I was thinking something more along the lines of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRiT3ISEN3M&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 01, 2012, 03:33:36
Received my caliper carriers in the mail this week from someone I met off Sydney Cafe Racers. Very pleased as they were made by hand and look fantastic in 10mm brushed raw steel (pity they can't stay that way):

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/4B3862F1-015E-44DF-9DDE-7CC94EB3E8F6-4108-000003C4969DAFEC.jpg)

Test fit on the bike without spacers:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/2D27C008-9ADE-48FA-B34A-1456B085BFE9-4108-000003C49C04F1BB.jpg)

Got some old washers to test the shims I need. Left leg is good with 2mm:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/F0D8EE24-2D93-4BB1-939B-CFE884EC647B-4108-000003C4A0F18228.jpg)

Right leg needs more than 2mm, I'm thinking 3.5mm:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/C8C79C2A-5C26-4052-A379-ACD1FA065492-4108-000003C4A52165D6.jpg)

Painted:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/2130D7E7-EB25-4529-9C07-793828ECE2E7-4108-000003C4AD976408.jpg)

Next up I flipped the headlight brackets (the placement is much better I think), been spending ages sanding them and brushing them by hand:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/9D7BBECA-3990-4D0F-AFCE-B25CB4C51FDC-4108-000003C4A9501122.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 01, 2012, 05:04:41
Headlight looks good!

Crazy
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Sep 01, 2012, 09:13:22
Nah mate that front end looks crap, I'll come and pick it up so you don't have to keep looking at it  ;D

But seriously your bike is going to be tough! the nsw Rottweiler, Im glad you had a look at the headlight position looking good mate!
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 01, 2012, 19:56:31
Nah mate that front end looks crap, I'll come and pick it up so you don't have to keep looking at it  ;D

But seriously your bike is going to be tough! the nsw Rottweiler, Im glad you had a look at the headlight position looking good mate!

Ohhhhh your such a gem. I will let you know when you can come over a pick it all up, I assume you need the discs, wheel and calipers ;)

"The Rottweiler" - I like it. Definitely the look I'm after, tough.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 01, 2012, 21:45:11
Cooked the caliper carriers in the house oven this morning. Mrs didn't bat an eyelid, luckily it didn't smoke or anything.

Mounted them up on the bike with some anti seize and used SS washers to get the correct offset. They are rock solid so think this will be more than enough to maintain feel:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/095E459B-FF7E-4101-A350-BAB3E6D4F0FF-4746-00000451FF910115.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/6A2280BF-44C8-43C3-8A4E-FED00C236693-4746-0000045204CE7616.jpg)

Also here is the first effort at brushing the headlight brackets. Doing it by hand is tough, I need a bench belt sander!

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/020912C9-1BA5-464E-8BCD-D6FD2069B3AE-4746-00000452092CD148.jpg)

Would I need to paint clear over them afterwards to maintain the finish?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Sep 01, 2012, 22:01:40
Ohhhhh your such a gem. I will let you know when you can come over a pick it all up, I assume you need the discs, wheel and calipers ;)

"The Rottweiler" - I like it. Definitely the look I'm after, tough.

Ahaha what ever I can do to help you out  ;D

A friend of mine has a fully grown male Rottweiler which we looked after for a month or so, to see him at full flight was hell impressive! I can't help but think/feel this is how you bike will also look  :)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Sep 01, 2012, 22:05:45
Cooked the caliper carriers in the house oven this morning. Mrs didn't bat an eyelid, luckily it didn't smoke or anything.

Also here is the first effort at brushing the headlight brackets. Doing it by hand is tough, I need a bench belt sander!
Would I need to paint clear over them afterwards to maintain the finish?

I don't know how you get away with it :o if I even look to closely at the missus oven with any other intent than to clean it, Im dead!

those ears will loose their luster over time if you dont clear them  :)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Sep 02, 2012, 00:15:11
congrats on the sprog  ;D
Leave headlamp mounting and keep some green scotchbrite handy to clean it when it dulls down
You need something like this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-6-X-1-X-1-80-GRIT-SANDING-FLAP-WHEEL-DEBURRING-AND-BLENDING-/120978475321?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c2ae10939

or
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DeWalt-Dafe1Q1810-Finishing-Flap-Wheel-2-1-2-x-1-180-Grit-/251115727996?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a77a9ec7c
Shank mounted needs die grinder rather th a drill though
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Automotive-LONG-SHAFT-Extended-Electric-DIE-GRINDER-NEW-/400317719672?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item5d34cba478&vxp=mtr

Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 02, 2012, 19:55:07
PJ how can I keep the sanding lines straight with those flap wheels?

My current setup is a plank of wood with sandpaper underneath. Then using a block to use as a runner and pushing the part along against that. Taking ages but the lines are super straight.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Sep 02, 2012, 22:27:59
Clamp down the piece and slide flap wheel along a guide if you want dead straight although it's not too difficult to do 'off-hand'
If you use 120 or finer grit with brown polishing compound you can get a pretty good polish going
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 03, 2012, 08:19:44
Looking to finish off the handlebars in a week or so. Anyone see any problems in my thinking of using:

R6 switches
R6 throttle (push pull)
R6 clutch (I know this will be ok and will match the R6 brake mc)

Just want to make sure the throttle will work with the carbs and I can wire the switches into the CB loom.

Also looking for plain black grips that will look good, clean and modern. Anyone got suggestions other than these:

http://bit.ly/NHrgR3
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Sep 03, 2012, 13:14:34
Fitting Yamaha switches isn't a problem, except for the kill switch, everything will wok the same as Honda
The kill switch is a 'grounding' switch so only makes contact when 'OFF',  ('RUN' will be open contacts)
I don't know if it will have separate wires or ground through bars, either way, not really a problem
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: hillsy on Sep 03, 2012, 19:32:44
I don't think any of the new gen bikes ground switches through the bars, so you should be able to figure out the killswitch.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Sep 03, 2012, 19:48:13
A lot have 'redundant ground', the ground lead may be bridged to housing internally
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 04, 2012, 02:18:36
Either way it would just work in reverse wouldn't it?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Sep 04, 2012, 22:34:41
If it's grounded it wil blow fuse. If not grounded, run is off, off is run (makes it real difficult to steal  ;) )
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 04, 2012, 22:59:36
Cheap immobiliser ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: kelvis on Sep 05, 2012, 06:48:24
Hey Neevo, I fitted an R6 kill switch to my '77 XS360. I wired it into the circuit from the fuse box that supplies current to the ignition. It was the same wire (red/white) into the switch and out of the switch so when it is off the circuit is open killing the ignition and when it is on the circuit is complete and the engine runs. There was no grounding wire to the switch. Hope this helps?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 05, 2012, 07:11:16
Hey Neevo, I fitted an R6 kill switch to my '77 XS360. I wired it into the circuit from the fuse box that supplies current to the ignition. It was the same wire (red/white) into the switch and out of the switch so when it is off the circuit is open killing the ignition and when it is on the circuit is complete and the engine runs. There was no grounding wire to the switch. Hope this helps?

Brilliant idea :)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 07, 2012, 05:32:20
Boom! Got me a waist high bottle of argon. Time to melt metal together again. Mwa ha ha ha ha:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/C35F3902-05EA-4D31-81EF-035A10087D7A-325-0000004934862204.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 09, 2012, 04:18:36
Put the Argon to use this weekend, turns out my old brown hoodie is not a good welding top as I'm sitting in the bath with red biceps and I haven't been sunbathing! Nice clean t shirt sleeve mark too, oh well.

Big job for the weekend was to get the tank sealed up and ready for pressure testing. I tidied up the old MIG welds with the TIG and got to checking the tank for leaks. Strapped a cardboard plug to the fuel cap and pumped compressed air in and felt around for air leaks. Worked well and some were tiny, requiring my top lip to truly feel them, got them all and I'm now ready to get the tank tested by a nice chap I met a while ago who has a radiator shop. Tank piccies:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/B55C0D76-8B26-4EB6-ACAC-BB3ACE70D94D-1697-00000156884C8E3C.jpg)

Plug:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/7CF44C8A-8E4E-4F6D-875C-37AABBF7E535-1697-000001568D376A74.jpg)

Next up was removal of the old shock mounts on the swingarm. I needed to stretch the swingarm brace 1" too which isn't an issue as I'm just using it as a template for the tube benders:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/17AB3E23-99F5-471E-B739-9DD72616351A-1697-0000015692121ACB.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/55660791-BABF-4429-9E90-5D32E0832C26-1697-0000015696819086.jpg)

Got a few more jobs to do on the tank before its ready for filler/ paint. Need to attach the petcock and fuel lines and also decided to upgrade the fuel cap like this:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/7807BA72-D57B-4AEF-A1D0-9CAA42CD2C62-1697-00000156A2CCBF74.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/5FEF7F02-FBD3-42E5-9F5C-8D52BB6E89E0-1697-00000156AB161165.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: pandknz on Sep 09, 2012, 04:29:29
Nice work, hope the sunburn does not last  :-\ are you going to a mono shock or are you ataying with the twin shocks?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 09, 2012, 05:32:06
Nice work, hope the sunburn does not last  :-\ are you going to a mono shock or are you ataying with the twin shocks?

Definitely monoshock, might struggle otherwise now I've chopped the mounts off ;)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 14, 2012, 02:57:23
Turns out my tank leaks like a colander :(

I'm turning my attention to welding it up visually and then putting a sealer in it to get it fuel tight, not my idea of done right but unfortunately my skills with the TIG aren't really up to it.

The fuel cap is going too for an R6 one to match the more modern look. I've also figured out how I'm going to get fuel lines out of it. Mounting two of these on the inside in the tunnel(1 higher for normal feed, 1 low for reserve:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/456076FB-A67C-470C-BB95-7BF4638A7A8E-484-00000067244B9704.jpg)

And I've been to my local hydraulics supply place and bought these collars which will be welded into the tank to accept the fixings above:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/2B9A768A-8356-4371-A1BC-4684F4FA90CA-484-000000673DA53AD0.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 14, 2012, 03:21:40
The rear subframe is going to be enclosed. I have some 1.5mm Alu here perfect for the job but wanted to attach it to the subframe with hex head button bolts. Anyone got some tips of how best to achieve this?

I want the Alu panel to be flush with the subframe tube so was thinking of welding on L brackets to the inside of the tube and tapping them. Anyone got any ideas?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MoToBoX-VintageSpeed on Sep 14, 2012, 03:36:24
yes i like your project, the fueltank looks perfect, the front end too
also nice little details with the drilled handlevels....  ;)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 15, 2012, 22:12:01
Looks like I might have some help welding up the tank, fingers crossed it works out and we can seal it up and I don't have to put a liner in it.

Today I crossed another couple of jobs off the "to do list". First up was a subframe tray, last one was steel and I welded it to the frame rails but it had to be cut off and access was compromised. This time I thought I would make it out of Alu (as I've got some 1.5 mm floating around) and attach it with button hex heads. Will give it a nice industrial look and mean its removeable too. Plan is to paint/PC it black with the rest of the frame:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/CF8C9B08-6C42-4F64-84CD-BB30F1032223-129-0000006970C46238.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/5179EC84-49C6-4084-AF1D-89FFB3E75DAB-129-00000069D374B1EC.jpg)

I haven't worked out how I'm going to mount it yet but think I'm going to buy some 20mm square stock, cut a radius edge 1 side and weld it to the frame rail. This will give me a block to drill and tap.

I also started the indicator stalks, pretty pleased as this is 1 job I did today that actually came out how I thought it would :)

Why stalks? Well the eBay LED signals I bought only had bolts and washers and looked shit. Bought some 16mm Alu tube, cut the end with a 33mm hole saw to get a radius, then whacked it on my DIY lathe to polish them up. Turned out good:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/D9C20F29-5BDF-478F-86E3-15B9CC9EE109-129-00000069F4FCB2FD.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/D191AF5D-19D3-4450-8260-215F79396549-129-00000069EBCAF1D1.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/05EFD156-D2ED-44C1-88FD-2EA70C3FCE81-129-00000069F13C4CC6.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/51BFB36B-48D7-4EE4-9186-1F38CE66FC4F-129-00000069D971B0D8.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/688B0F8E-FF95-4BFB-81B2-C5E807428066-129-00000069E2B0DE31.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/428DB1E7-F74F-4D1C-903B-37B98618E604-129-00000069F95D6625.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/1BD5AEF8-AF5D-4F6A-8B5D-8AEB9483210F-129-00000069FD92EFD0.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/122D7DAF-75CE-4EEB-BDC3-3E78F9650B69-129-0000006A01DB167E.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 15, 2012, 22:34:16
Signals turned out very tidy!

Crazy
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 15, 2012, 22:36:31
(Apologies for the double pun)

Crazy
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 16, 2012, 03:09:28
Signals turned out very tidy!

Crazy

They make thr back end look a bit like a robot but not sure on the options other than not running them and that's not an option as the bike is going to be as legal as possible.

Worst case I don't run these and try something more discrete.

I'm hoping they blend in a bit more when the rear end comes together.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: BCBarker on Sep 16, 2012, 07:57:46
very nice on the turn signals. I think they look outta place because they are "finished" and the rest of the bike is not. Once you get some paint on things and start to wrap things up they should blend nicely!

Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 16, 2012, 08:21:24
Ah ha, welcome BC. I hope your right re the signals, just putting the swingarm back on made a difference so hopefully they blend even more when the wheel goes on too.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Sep 16, 2012, 12:16:54
I didn't like the mounts so made up spacers with curve to match indicators as well.
To attache plate to frame, would 'Riv-nuts' work?
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k315/1crazypj/Honda%20CB360/CB360-May7th2011-5.jpg)
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k315/1crazypj/Honda%20CB360/CB360rearindicator.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Sep 16, 2012, 12:34:36
IMHO you are right Neevo, they look out of place.  I think the reason is that they are mounted too high so they stick out (all puns intended).  I would leave them until you finish the rear end of the frame and then tack them just under the seat for a less obvious look.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 16, 2012, 18:41:31
IMHO you are right Neevo, they look out of place.  I think the reason is that they are mounted too high so they stick out (all puns intended).  I would leave them until you finish the rear end of the frame and then tack them just under the seat for a less obvious look.

I think you're right. Did a google images search and most are mounted on the lower part of the frame rails where the shocks mount.

I will leave them for the moment and see how I can mount them later.

Thinking of making tall twin exhausts so could combine the mounts for them and the turn signal placement.

Cheers gents.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 17, 2012, 04:18:35
Popped over to see my new best friend Darren today. He was kind enough to let me use his bench linisher to brush my Alu headlight brackets.

Took my tank over for some advice and he welded it up then and there!!!!!!!!

Legendary gentleman with a shed full of tools to die for. My brackets are now nicely brushed and my tank appears to be water tight, very good day :)

I've also done some eBaying and bought:

R6 clutch lever, left switch, right switch, throttle and a crushed R1 tank which will be donating its fuel filler hole for my latest tank mod.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 17, 2012, 08:23:19
How risky is buying this gas cap? The price difference between this new item and a 2nd hand genuine item is huge (4 x the amount for oem).

I assume they are not the most complicated piece of engineering in the world, just don't want crap that doesn't seal, vent or fit well.

http://bit.ly/PryZzw
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Sep 17, 2012, 13:35:18
Looks OK to me
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Sep 17, 2012, 14:48:49
You need the tank it came from.  What I have done a couple of times is to buy a badly damaged tank complete with cap and key and cut out the tank mounting ring to weld it into an old style tank.


This was an old style Suzuki tank with tall flip filler cap.  I snagged a 2007 GSXR tank that was a piece of junk - and cut teh mounting ring out and then fitted a simple billet cap.

(http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h364/tz375/P7040018.jpg)

Unfortunately my welding skills leave some room for improvement, so it took a lot of work to get it right.  It's not a complicated upgrade, but it takes patience or skill - tick whichever box applies.

Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 17, 2012, 19:53:20
Cheers PJ, your opinion is always valued, Teazer I'm 1 step ahead of you with the tank. Bought this 07/08 R1 beauty with a few other goodies from the US of A:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/625325D5-BF8D-4E87-8018-C7FF2ACA58C1-2268-000001F1C0A9E391.jpg)

Going to cut the gas cap mount out and weld into the 400's tank:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/ECC64B2D-0CCE-46F6-A657-17411B0410EE-2268-000001F1C543DE64.jpg)

Fingers crossed I can get it looking as good as yours, but my welding skills are still a bit turd ;)

I've got a buddy here though that is a welding genius that I'm sure could help me out if I get into trouble.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Sep 17, 2012, 20:11:25
If it's off a California model you can probably weld up a few of the holes, only need 1 drain so water doesn't get into filler
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 17, 2012, 20:28:58
If it's off a California model you can probably weld up a few of the holes, only need 1 drain so water doesn't get into filler

I assume the holes don't go into the tank, I will get a better idea when it's here and cut it up, just trying to work out how it's sealed though so I'm prepared when I cut it. Are you suggesting some of those holes drain through the tank? If so I will make sure I plan for a drain hole/tube on the 400's tank too.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Sep 17, 2012, 21:23:15
At least 1 will drain through the tank as recess fills up with water when they get blocked.
 The drain is probably the dimpled tube on right in pic (it will be on left when tank is on bike - sidestand side  ;) )
'Cali' model will also have breather line going to an activated charcoal canister (you'll see a couple of metal lines coming out bottom)
There are also various tubes welded inside for the injection system/pump/return/etc.
 Should be easy enough to figure out when you have it in your hands
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Sep 18, 2012, 01:25:47
You should see at least 1 tube going through the tank and out of the bottom.  That's the drain that PJ is talking about.  That's all you need, but you do have to drill a hole in the floor of the tank to take that tube and weld or braze it up after the filler neck is welded into position.  Any surplus holes/tubes can be closed off.

That tank looks similar to the one I bought.  I got my first squashed tank from Vic Wreckers many moons ago.  They even had a couple where they had cut the filler neck out and dumped the shell.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 18, 2012, 01:31:10
Any tips for welding it in teazer? Your effort looks tops and looks like the cap recess is slightly larger than the raised tank section (like mine is too) which will mean some gentle welding to get it to fit the curves of the tank.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Sep 18, 2012, 01:56:17
Bondo covers a lot of sins :-)

http://pinkpossum.com/GT750/phattrakka2/p2Tanked.htm for the full story.  It's not for the feint of heart.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 18, 2012, 02:52:00
Bondo covers a lot of sins :-)

http://pinkpossum.com/GT750/phattrakka2/p2Tanked.htm for the full story.  It's not for the feint of heart.

Holy shit!! Spot on tutorial ready to go!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Sep 18, 2012, 13:18:57
The only advice I can give up on welding is not to follow my example. Tack the parts in pace and get a pro to TIG weld it
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 18, 2012, 18:41:13
The only advice I can give up on welding is not to follow my example. Tack the parts in pace and get a pro to TIG weld it

How did you tack it in? I will have a crack with the TIG here at home and if I get into trouble will ask my buddy for help.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Sep 18, 2012, 19:37:01
I have a small Oxy set.  The problem with oxy is that it's hard to avoid overheating and buckling things.  Tack with TIG and then bodywork it until it's ready for a pro welder to show off what welds should look like.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: TricDick on Sep 18, 2012, 20:17:30
I would love to see a pic of that GT750, from what I can see its killer!!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Sep 18, 2012, 20:54:20
I don't want to threadjack Neevo's build but I couldn't find my own build thread - how bad is that - right? ;-)

[threadjack]
here it is (again)

(http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h364/tz375/P8060004.jpg)

[/threadjack]
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 19, 2012, 00:42:19
Went and bought a few materials yesterday, much cheaper buying new than picking bits off local fan shops (much to my surprise). Bought some steel collars for the fuel line mounts:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/E46CA26E-D498-4F97-9C20-DC4488C834DF-3267-000002CB9B947A04_zpsd00e17d9.jpg)

Also picked up some 12mm solid round (for damper mount), 10mm solid square (for subframe tray mounts) and 5mm x 75mm for shock mounts.

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/442586FB-9D53-4866-87BC-1D2C9EB10C2F-3267-000002CBA0FB99F4_zps0a165ac1.jpg)

Cut, drilled and tapped a small piece of round stock for the damper mount:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/55A7B991-8535-4445-B37B-10A9B3F903B3-3267-000002CBA5CB3888_zps131e7670.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/815009DD-CEBE-4741-B383-7D33C52F1864-3267-000002CBAA4E2E1E_zps9cc0917b.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/3309208C-791C-4F7E-BAFC-4AD7F27AAD0C-3267-000002CBAE63A01E_zpse55246e2.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/38EEA295-837F-4CB8-9537-90F77BE7D45E-3267-000002CBB2B3B48D_zpse0119735.jpg)

The damper will be slightly hidden under the leading edge of the tank. Will post pics when it's back together.

Working on cutting an shaping the subframe tray mounts now.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 20, 2012, 02:01:02
Got a few goodies coming from L'america:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/625325D5-BF8D-4E87-8018-C7FF2ACA58C1-2268-000001F1C0A9E391.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/81674872-622C-4160-974E-3E7914541AB9-4248-000003A8809D43DA_zps0ef45e0e.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/1EC0798F-F7CF-431F-B195-D2ABCB3B985D-4248-000003A889A71C92_zpsf43ec8b5.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/FDE6F198-26D5-44CA-921B-8746A47E5F81-4248-000003A890D90FE4_zps1f1ccdb9.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/597B654E-4348-462F-903F-71C44A7C8798-4248-000003A8962534FC_zps2f8d0c85.jpg)

Big thanks to Swivel for the recommendation on the grips too, they came in this morning :)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/D91B43A2-6029-449E-9859-71F0ED9606AB-4248-000003A51A672C85_zps8a59fb68.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Sep 20, 2012, 04:46:30


(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/625325D5-BF8D-4E87-8018-C7FF2ACA58C1-2268-000001F1C0A9E391.jpg)


???????? whats with the tank???????
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 20, 2012, 04:53:59
Using the cap mount so I can put an R1 fuel cap on the 400.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: pandknz on Sep 20, 2012, 05:57:03
that is such a cool idea putting that cap on the 400 tank........I like it!!!!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Sep 20, 2012, 07:36:26
Using the cap mount so I can put an R1 fuel cap on the 400.

Sorry, missed that one, just went back (pay attention andy)  :-[
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 21, 2012, 03:50:31
Picked up some goodies today (polished rear hub, rear wheel bearings, subframe tray bolts, hex head bolts for the calipers):

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/9FB6A40F-AFA7-4438-BFEF-26C20878A594-710-00000095419194F2_zpsb2fe65a8.jpg)

Got stuck into doing the subframe tray mounts. Cut some 10mm square solid stock into small sections with an angled curved section and rounded off ends:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/4EAF1F98-737B-431D-A2C1-72FD8971D08D-710-0000009551E2D231_zps0a39d087.jpg)

Welded these around the subframe:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/9A136EFF-52AD-4C7D-81F9-A810F567627C-710-0000009556A5E0A6_zps91363886.jpg)

Then drilled and tapped them:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/80DC657C-3B42-428D-B8D1-EB345A65F1B6-710-000000955B706447_zps5d87d544.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/26897EAB-C16F-4A84-B1B5-1F5459802B69-710-0000009560B593F0_zps7cc68ee1.jpg)

Tray mounted:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/C9CC550E-1F57-4F06-A3A6-CB1C14F75A32-710-00000095657E0C06_zps40e4407e.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/50A1E3E5-8990-4255-BADC-7577679850C6-710-000000956AC5D663_zps862bf3d0.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/8A185BE5-6B5C-4122-804E-A4A5491BB4BD-710-000000956F7C1869_zps7540602a.jpg)

In the end it will be painted black so should blend in nicely:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/70B020E2-6B7C-47AA-9792-A9CA7562F32F-710-00000095741B1AA1_zpsba7c3563.jpg)

Next up was fitting the damper, very pleased with how it fits although the 5w I put in it is waaaaaaaaay to light as the damper does bugger all. Looks tidy though:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/1C708E7F-4551-4FE7-BE06-2176556DBA90-710-0000009579790C0B_zps3e659680.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/E8BE7235-A599-447C-B274-7032F14DF574-710-0000009585D745A6_zps16e828ac.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/C74FB559-32C3-4C62-89D3-805F4B8A7FEA-710-000000958FBEE37D_zpsb4544d97.jpg)

Next up is replacing the caliper bolts with hex heads, fitting a grip and lacing the rear wheel :D
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 21, 2012, 04:29:24
That tray is not going to move anytime soon!

Crazy
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Sep 21, 2012, 04:45:35
looks like a great start to your welding repetoire  :)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 21, 2012, 06:20:31
looks like a great start to your welding repetoire  :)

Cheers Andy, went to a mates house the other day and got a master class, my welding control has come on a fair bit since then. Bit of a way to go to make them pretty but it's a good start.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 21, 2012, 06:24:23
Grips! Put some electrical tape down (2 layers), petrol in the grip and slid it on quickly before it set:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/4BC6135A-B6C9-49C4-94CE-6AE0C64A8555-710-000000A59134FDD5_zps2463f48c.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/A71E4325-281B-4AFD-86AA-FC76AF2C596E-710-000000A59686E5CE_zps0d76312d.jpg)

Will be wiring them on too for full peace of mind.

Also swapped the bolts on the calipers out for hex heads, much cleaner look:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/5DC97858-1639-4479-9E48-E567EEC6EB71-710-000000A59BFB46FA_zps9839a582.jpg)

Welded up the indicator holes as they will now be mounted lower as they look stoopid where they are now:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/C02A052E-28C1-4AFA-ADAD-8B71564FCA36-710-000000A5A05FF1C1_zps2fbf8261.jpg)

Also got this bad mo-fo laced up:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0F5BAF7B-539B-4E28-9147-2B667C536F8C-710-000000A5A4B2D35A_zps3504b127.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/72BE3855-9AEE-49B4-BA0C-21BFA5FFAC91-710-000000A5A90082E0_zpsb0c73ad1.jpg)

Nearly a roller :)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 21, 2012, 06:27:15
That tray is not going to move anytime soon!

Crazy

Shouldn't move ;)

I was thinking aesthetics when I did it (button head spacing underneath to look nice) and ensure it didn't rattle. Think its good for both of those.

I did fark up the gap between the mount and the panel though, it's inconsistent and I will need to pad it out with some washers. Also thinking of putting some rubber strip around the panel too so it's neatly sealed against the frame.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 21, 2012, 07:57:54
Hey PJ? Turns out 5w oil is shit in GSXR dampers, does nothing. What other oils can I test out in the 15w range without spending a tonne on a litre of Motorex fork oil, would 15w cheap engine oil work?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Sep 21, 2012, 11:59:44
I would use full synthetic 10w/40 (in fact, I do  ;D )
 Plenty of friction modifiers to provide smooth action  ;)
 You did get the cartridge fully bled before assembly? (needs a 'special tool', tube to screw onto end of damper rod)
 Full synthetic ATF will also be around 10wt
 I'll have to check, but, I think stock damper settings are 1-1/2~2 turns on rebound and compression
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 21, 2012, 19:04:12
I would use full synthetic 10w/40 (in fact, I do  ;D )
 Plenty of friction modifiers to provide smooth action  ;)
 You did get the cartridge fully bled before assembly? (needs a 'special tool', tube to screw onto end of damper rod)
 Full synthetic ATF will also be around 10wt
 I'll have to check, but, I think stock damper settings are 1-1/2~2 turns on rebound and compression

Eh??????

You know I'm talking about the steering stabiliser don't you? The 5w in the forks might be too light too but I haven't tested them yet. Stabiliser has almost no friction though with 5w so looking to bump it to 15w.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Sep 21, 2012, 19:06:24
Use 10wt, mine works fine.
 I used a the blunt needle and syringe from an inkjet re-fill kit to get all the bubbles out
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Sep 21, 2012, 19:32:17
There's more steel in that undertray that in the Sydney Harbour Bridge.  It isn't going anywhere any time soon. 

Just as a reference point, I re-use brackets I cut off elsewhere or fold up a couple of square inches of 20 gauge steel and weld a nut to that. Mainly cut off brackets being re-purposed though. One of these days I need to buy a box load of small brackets from a race car fab supplier.  They are so cheap.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 21, 2012, 19:49:14
Use 10wt, mine works fine.
 I used a the blunt needle and syringe from an inkjet re-fill kit to get all the bubbles out

Cheers PJ, I'll grab some oil today and give it a crack.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 22, 2012, 04:23:12
A few things achieved today. First up found an old tub of Motul Synthetic 7100 engine oil (10w, 40) and decided to refill the steering damper with that as the 5w was just too light. Used a Tupperware container and submerged the damper to get all the bubbles out, much easier than a syringe and no cavitation at any point :)

Popped it back on the bike at its perfect, not much resistance on slow turns but catches a swift snap of the bars.

Next up I thought I would have a crack at the upper shock mount, just made it up really so if anyone thinks its not going to work let me know and I will try something else. Made it out of 5mm steel and decided to use this space to mount it:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/025C5E68-46D9-409B-9057-DC441A184D85-1406-0000010B3DC04609_zps7ae7979d.jpg)

Cut 3 pieces from the 5mm and mocked it up prior to welding:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/AF6FDD14-9B3D-409A-B2DC-303A232C3C49-1406-0000010B45408830_zpsa3d16e9c.jpg)

Looked good and I needed to keep the spacing 40mm as that's what the Hagon shock upper mount is. My welding has come on a fair bit since I started and I'm pretty pleased with how the mount came out:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/2A739FA3-6B49-431B-BA3D-4BE1DB4842D3-1406-0000010B4A2A9202_zps7218927b.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/622119EF-0148-4D5C-9BAA-3FC54EBE025D-1406-0000010B50C0109C_zpsb0ec2cc6.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/FE169924-56ED-4F1F-B2A3-09D906CDB858-1406-0000010B55AC8365_zps1700bc92.jpg)

Wasn't going to weld it to the bike but I thought I might just tack it in and see if it fits when the shock arrives:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/CAD78C7B-A825-4F56-B7DA-9301FB04EB17-1406-0000010B608E3917_zpscba3556d.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/3AF055E1-B59F-4C02-9CEE-171A832A0005-1406-0000010B5B3C6AAD_zps89e3337b.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/F5B3F9E7-98DD-4BCF-A52C-09320AF51903-1406-0000010B669B7500_zpsc014a5de.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/7D71FCED-AE90-4293-896A-4D27A89E806D-1406-0000010B6B48D225_zps62b6a684.jpg)

Put the bike to bed with its new wheels too, nearly a roller!!!!

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/28DBF704-617D-4117-9BAB-4320BAEDD9D8-1406-0000010B714DE4D7_zps57131b10.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/81F3C840-E8FC-4E45-82E1-296BF4256C5C-1406-0000010B770AD597_zpsa12a0e76.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Sep 22, 2012, 07:37:39
Wow !  :) my my hasn't she come along .
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Sep 22, 2012, 12:56:09
That's pretty much exactly how I did 400f monoshock, welded original tank mount back on though as I used stock tank.
Your just showing off with Tupperwear and submerged steering damper  ;) ;D
Good damping now though?
(should be pretty light at slow movement but go almost 'solid' if you 'jump' on it fast)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 22, 2012, 19:40:19
PJ the damping is much better, as you said its not really noticeable until a sharp hit to the bars. Perfect as I like light steering.

Is my shock mount going to be strong enough, the shock mount part is quite tall to get the right angle which I assume would transfer a fair but of cantilever force. Hopefully 5mm plate and the welds are enough to keep it solid.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Sep 22, 2012, 21:13:56
I would add a brace across the back side (yellow) to help eliminate lateral movement and to help support the shock pressure add a back stop brace  (red) ???
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Sep 22, 2012, 22:43:12
Wow !  :) my my hasn't she come along .

Exactly what I was thinking. Good stuff going on right here.
Might have to change the thread title ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Sep 22, 2012, 23:34:57
PJ the damping is much better, as you said its not really noticeable until a sharp hit to the bars. Perfect as I like light steering.

Is my shock mount going to be strong enough, the shock mount part is quite tall to get the right angle which I assume would transfer a fair but of cantilever force. Hopefully 5mm plate and the welds are enough to keep it solid.

You'll have to fit the motor and the carbs before you add any braces.
You can probably buttress the front of both plates but clearance to fit carbs gets tight
Using a single angle plate won't work, the throttle pulley want's to be in the same place (if I remember right)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 23, 2012, 06:47:05
You'll have to fit the motor and the carbs before you add any braces.
You can probably buttress the front of both plates but clearance to fit carbs gets tight
Using a single angle plate won't work, the throttle pulley want's to be in the same place (if I remember right)

PJ, I built the upper mount with the carbs and motor in place and then fabbed them off the bike. No issues with fitment at the moment (although stack clearance might be tight) and there is room for buttressing too.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Sep 23, 2012, 13:13:20
You'll have to re-fit motor and carbs and tape some card in position then try removing carbs.
I found out the hard way that I needed more room than I thought
Not being an engineer, I overbuilt the mounting.
3mm plate will be plenty thick enough, you don't have any twisting forceand any strass will be going through the widest section.
I would probably drill some 'speed holes' as well to lighten things up
At least I found out before frame was painted  ;D
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 23, 2012, 18:40:54
You'll have to re-fit motor and carbs and tape some card in position then try removing carbs.

Oh, I didn't even think about if the carbs could be removed! Good pickup. I will double check that before adding some mild buttressing.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Sep 23, 2012, 19:48:54
That's a long way out from the frame!  I would have placed it so that the shock looks almost like an extension of the top frame tube.  That way the forces are simple and in compression.

The current design includes a significant bending moment that is probably not a problem but it's not optimal.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 23, 2012, 21:14:30
That's a long way out from the frame!  I would have placed it so that the shock looks almost like an extension of the top frame tube.  That way the forces are simple and in compression.

The current design includes a significant bending moment that is probably not a problem but it's not optimal.

Reason for such extension is so that the spring on the shock can clear the subframe cover and also give the right angle down to the swingarm. It looks low and that's why I will put some basic bracing in front of it to transfer some of that force into the backbone.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Sep 24, 2012, 02:15:25
Oh, I didn't even think about if the carbs could be removed! Good pickup. I will double check that before adding some mild buttressing.

 That's why they make cutting discs for angle grinders  ;)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 24, 2012, 04:22:54
Jobs done today: trued rear wheel and finished the extensions on the subframe upright supports.

Struggled with the dial indicator when I did the front so I thought I would make a holder. A bit of 5mm plate, some 10mm square solid rod and we had it:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/B573AD2A-C5D4-4E40-944A-377537935DFC-3025-000004D15F31CFBE_zps061270d8.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/46E6E6CB-CFB8-4DFD-8FE0-F5B815BBCCD0-3025-000004D164E37EEF_zps1cbc5dc4.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/F799CE85-7E68-4CD5-BF0B-0429AF2F6E28-3025-000004D169982833_zpsdf5b82d8.jpg)

I got the wheel trued to 0.2mm however something funny is occurring with the beads. One is arrow straight and the other has a bit of a wobble. Any thoughts on what's going on?

Lastly I cut some tube and finished off the subframe supports after lifting the subframe approx 1". I tried to use the hole saw to cut the ends but it just wouldnt work, so I cut them straight and topped it up with weld, not pretty but matches the original welds and should be plenty strong enough too:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/745B3D60-DF33-4932-BD9E-F7E0AD93A56E-3025-000004D16E3E0482_zpsf93695e9.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Maritime on Sep 24, 2012, 10:35:40
The side with the wobble is likely not properly seated.  Did you inflate them until the beads "popped"?  They need to go to like 55 60 PSI or higher a lot of times to get the beads all the way, then you back the pressure back down to riding pressure.  My first tire I mounted had that and I took it back to the compressor and pumped it back up until the bead popped straight on both sides.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Sep 24, 2012, 10:43:28
It's probably a variation at the weld? (you do mean the rim flange and not tyre bead?)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Maritime on Sep 24, 2012, 11:26:45
It's probably a variation at the weld? (you do mean the rim flange and not tyre bead?)

Ahh yes, I should have clarified that, makes a difference on the answere for sure.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 24, 2012, 18:08:33
It's probably a variation at the weld? (you do mean the rim flange and not tyre bead?)

Yeah it's a variation at the rim flange PJ. It's probably within 1mm but noticeable, want to know how/if I fix it. If I trued the wheel again I might be able to spread the wobble across both flanges.

I will grab a video, hopefully someone can advise me on next steps.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 24, 2012, 19:56:36
A little vid for you to look at. I'm not sure the problem is that bad after a nights sleep, let me know what you think. First edge has been done to 0.18mm runout left has a little more pronounced wobble:

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/C9999089-49A9-408B-A60B-23E50C1CF2DE-169-00000003DFE1DF2C.mp4

Thoughts?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 25, 2012, 02:58:18
Checked the shock mount PJ, turns out the carbs fit with a mm to spare. Luckily enough the 2-3 carbs fall either side of the shock mount:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/6F42E0D8-6663-42C5-A7F8-5C947882C9DF-476-0000003AF0CEEDEE.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/799724DE-4EEE-4C4C-A111-42A90D248BFC-476-0000003AF57DAD7D.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/DA6C5680-ABC4-483F-85C7-9F9D861F49BB-476-0000003AFA4762E8.jpg)

So with that in mind I fabricated a buttress to take some of the forward load:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/A0A89ABE-7DFC-403E-8466-82C57839CCCA-476-0000003AFF0EEF4C.jpg)

Trimmed down the central seam weld:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/944003BF-AC7C-4C03-87BB-12BD3D227B24-476-0000003B039CFCF6.jpg)

Was only going to tack it in place but thought bugger it, I'll weld it all up properly:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/268A241B-6013-48BE-9B95-C1D9C8899E92-476-0000003B0835C940.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/FD5CAD3D-B720-45F0-AC65-F735FB600A62-476-0000003B0CBD374B.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/4E17B270-1278-4C3C-BF78-4743AFF5A855-476-0000003B115317A6.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/4A05C0B4-75BF-495F-83E0-DBA086948C04-476-0000003B15B09BB7.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/11024A47-1E16-44EA-B954-6958ABB9BAA4-476-0000003B1A318187.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Sep 25, 2012, 04:02:42
Very envious of your welder! great to see the rear seat frame supports done too  :D It's good to see you could fit in a support for thr shock mount, I would only say that all the pressure will be put through the welds as you have welded it in between the mount not at the back of it. If you had some of that plate left over from making the mounts, welding it to the back of the mounts and to the buttress I think it would be much stronger? (jm2c)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 25, 2012, 04:12:47
Good point Andy, not sure why I did it that way. I will see how it goes but to be honest I'm not too worried as its pretty tough. Worst case I chop out the cross beam and weld in a section of plate at the rear.

Where in Oz are you? If your in Sydney I'm happy to help with welding although my welds aren't that pretty yet.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Sep 25, 2012, 08:35:34
Where in Oz are you? If your in Sydney I'm happy to help with welding although my welds aren't that pretty yet.

Melbourne (the temperate state  ;D) thanks man  ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: rattpunk on Sep 25, 2012, 12:43:44
Sup dude?   I've been coming back to this thread since I joined up on DTT a few months ago.  Reading a page or six here and there.  What an epic journey  :D


Just thought I'd give some props.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 25, 2012, 18:35:32
Sup dude?   I've been coming back to this thread since I joined up on DTT a few months ago.  Reading a page or six here and there.  What an epic journey  :D


Just thought I'd give some props.

Cheers Bud!

I went and read from the beginning the other day too, but didn't get all the way through. It's been a fantastic project and I've learnt a HUGE amount along the way.

I feel I'm on the home straight now though as hopefully it will have a shock and tyres by Christmas. Then it's the motor which hopefully means a shakedown run in about June '13 :)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Sep 25, 2012, 22:44:09
Did you get the rim sorted?
 Check it wasn't damaged in shipping, may be a variation in width where it's wobbling?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 26, 2012, 03:54:43
Did you get the rim sorted?
 Check it wasn't damaged in shipping, may be a variation in width where it's wobbling?

Not yet PJ. It doesn't look too bad on the swingarm. I will check the width with the calipers soon to check the width is consistent, I suspect it may not be.

If its not is it acceptable or should I pop an email to Buchanans?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Sep 26, 2012, 10:28:58
For the prices they charge, I would expect everything to be perfect and would be really pissed if there is any damage.
They have been in business long enough to know how to pack for shipping around the world.
Check before you go nuts with them though  ;)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 26, 2012, 19:27:26
For the prices they charge, I would expect everything to be perfect and would be really pissed if there is any damage.
They have been in business long enough to know how to pack for shipping around the world.
Check before you go nuts with them though  ;)

Packing was good, no worries there. The rear rim does have a chunk out of it though on the inside, it's been anodised so has been there from the beginning. I will check widths all around and report.

I'm not a go nuts kind of bloke so we will see how this pans out in a pleasant way.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Sep 26, 2012, 21:18:45
Figuratively speaking, pretty difficult to actually do much from 8,000miles away although you could send a nasty e-mail  ;D
 You have tried loosening or tightening spokes 90 degrees to the bump?
Sometimes you can pull a wobble away from distorted rim doing that, particularly if only one side
 
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 27, 2012, 01:00:54
Figuratively speaking, pretty difficult to actually do much from 8,000miles away although you could send a nasty e-mail  ;D
 You have tried loosening or tightening spokes 90 degrees to the bump?
Sometimes you can pull a wobble away from distorted rim doing that, particularly if only one side

I find you catch more flies with honey then vinegar. I'm not saying I needs resolution as the wobble is minor and still within Honda specs, but I may ask them about the tolerances if it turns out the rim is inconsistently wide.

The ball is then in their court.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Sep 27, 2012, 02:29:58
A jog at the weld is common on all rims and worse on older Akronts which typically had a lump or a gouge where they tried to buff out the weld.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 27, 2012, 02:41:15
A jog at the weld is common on all rims and worse on older Akronts which typically had a lump or a gouge where they tried to buff out the weld.

Check out the link to the video teazer and let me know if its a weld seam bump. Looks too big to me.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 27, 2012, 20:30:41
Rim width is no longer in question. Consistent to 0.6mm all the way round, I will re true the rim at some stage from both sides to eliminate as much if the wobble as possible.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Sep 27, 2012, 21:18:52
That's thickness, width would be across both flanges and will be around 3" (75~mm)
One flange could be distorted
 Of course, you could have just screwed up on truing  ;D
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 27, 2012, 22:31:09
That's thickness, width would be across both flanges and will be around 3" (75~mm)
One flange could be distorted
 Of course, you could have just screwed up on truing  ;D

That is across both flanges, 88.8 - 89.3mm

Could me not truing it properly cause an inconsistent wobble on each flange?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Sep 27, 2012, 23:18:07
Oh, me bad  :-[
Forgot you got a wider rear rim.
Yep, having spokes at different tension can cause rim flanges to wobble.
I usually start with rims like that though, never know what your getting with used stuff.
It is fixable, just takes a bit of playing with at different locations on rim to pull things into shape.
It is a lot easier with DTI, you can see how tightening one spoke moves rim a few thou
 
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 28, 2012, 04:33:23
Oh lords of cafe give me your thoughts... on my lower shock mounts.

The uppermost section isn't done yet, leaving plenty of material on there so I can easily adjust the mounting position if required.

It's quite heavy duty and could probably be trimmed further, would appreciate some inputs;

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/21CBC223-5B22-4973-A234-796A0F6DB051-3179-0000021A9A1FEEAC.jpg)

Test fit on the bike. Lower loop goes round a cross brace on the upper supports, upper loop goes around swingarm brace:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/8D48BABE-5FE4-4C61-BBD1-3488DC0FF325-3179-0000021A9FAA6F3E.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/CD2E23D9-1F71-41B9-8CB6-D7F6E0196D44-3179-0000021AA40E8B82.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/807C3741-781F-4C75-8769-2C4A88562159-3179-0000021AA8BF8BA7.jpg)

Test fit with an analogue for the shock too:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/7E7A0D2A-4204-4814-990A-D770E14ACC8D-3179-0000021AAD22FE1D.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/CA778806-4713-46C8-A438-6BA405206DB2-3179-0000021AB1B95B4F.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Sep 28, 2012, 11:29:09
That's purty, I would mount shock closer to horizontal, gives a slightly rising rate
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: cobraace2 on Sep 28, 2012, 11:47:19
Now this is a Honda I would ride.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Sep 28, 2012, 12:17:43
I, on the other hand, would take those cute plates off and weld a pair of simple brackets in line with the main brace.  It's simpler lighter but only a straight (non-rising) rate that way.  It simplifies the forces and eliminates a twisting force.   

OR...  I wonder if the shock could go vertical with a linkage below the swingarm?

There never any shortage of alternative ways to do something.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Sep 28, 2012, 12:45:00
Angled shock in line with brace may end up as a falling rate as swing arm moves through arc (and the pivot points move around)
 1/4" in the right direction makes a big difference  ;)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 28, 2012, 20:16:32
PJ: Are you suggesting lifting the rear shock mount so the shock is more horizontal? That can be done easily, just might need to redo the mounts as the shock length is fixed (290mm eye to eye). Only thing I would need to worry about is the spring on the shock clearing the subframe tray (Hagons do have a thin profile spring luckily).

Teazer: Are you suggesting mounting the shock directly onto the brace to keep the angle the same? This might work as I think the brace still arcs upwards. I might take some pics of the brace arc to double check.

Keep the inputs coming, pro's and con's with them too if possible so I've got some background to decide around too.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 28, 2012, 20:40:03
Looks like the mount doesn't roll over at all if its above the brace. Brace does reverse on the last pic though:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/9F1F7880-ABC2-4C21-A2D6-EBE0EA00F632-4038-00000326AA1CE174.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/F355FC7F-3FDE-48E1-9B9B-46FC6B2DF9B1-4038-00000326AE9D1B5C.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/639A52F3-2ACE-48ED-B12C-D6676B772104-4038-00000326B2E5D40D.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/BDF7C71F-B292-4037-8CF3-CD59AF70795B-4038-00000326B7176B81.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/C0157C58-6734-4DEF-A654-762EE51BBFE8-4038-00000326BB65B4F1.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Sep 28, 2012, 23:08:57
The last 3 pics are about right level for swing arm, I don't think it's possible to run it in the position in second pic (chain want's to be in same place as pivot shaft)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 28, 2012, 23:19:48
The last 3 pics are about right level for swing arm, I don't think it's possible to run it in the position in second pic (chain want's to be in same place as pivot shaft)

Yeah your right. Just took photos without thinking about that. I am going to set swingarm just lower than horizontal with shock fully extended, should give clearance and enough travel when fully compressed.

Does it make sense to get rid of the figure 8 mounts and weld a simple mount to the brace?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Sep 29, 2012, 01:02:36
You want a maximum static droop angle of say 10 degrees but anywhere from zero to 10 is fine. Measure the shock without its spring to see how long it is fully extended and fully compressed.

Raise the wheel to full compressed shock position with the shock in different positions and see what angle it would be at.   That will give you a pretty good idea of what will work and what will not.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Sep 30, 2012, 07:34:08
You want a maximum static droop angle of say 10 degrees but anywhere from zero to 10 is fine.

I assume you mean 10 degree angle on the swingarm when the bike slightly compresses the shock under its own weight (static sag)?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Sep 30, 2012, 16:01:28
That would work but may be better to have around 10 deg unladen.
You'll have to support frame and not swing arm to get it right.
You'll have around 30 ~ 40mm when you sit on it and about 10~15mm with just weight of bike if spring rate is correct (and about 5deg droop)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MickyC on Sep 30, 2012, 21:06:58
all this strengthening she will be unbreakable mate awesome work 
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 09, 2012, 03:35:35
Parts arrived :)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/43A25446-883C-4D88-8A8F-B9F9E70D7E8E-1596-000001B984D00DBA.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/A95A2013-D8ED-4173-B145-FCE78018493C-1596-000001B989C4836E.jpg)

Couldn't resist and had to put the bits on:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0F706FA1-4537-472D-9F71-0F836D4553C8-1596-000001B98E7330DF.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/BFDD9EEA-526F-4420-81EE-9848BC88F0B1-1596-000001B9930083DF.jpg)

Popped the new grip on the throttle:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/8B84CF88-52A5-42B9-80E5-9846B896D3F9-1596-000001B997AFE097.jpg)

And wired both grips on:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/C03D9B71-501E-44A7-936E-0B9842B6056C-1596-000001B99C190646.jpg)

Tank will have to wait till the weekend.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Oct 09, 2012, 07:02:38
Nice :o
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Oct 09, 2012, 21:38:40
Looking great Neevo, hard to believe it's the same bike.
I realy like the speed hole in the levers, nice detail. I'm thinking those killer headlight mounts need a few, maybe in a triangle patern.
Just a suggestion, you go Brother!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 09, 2012, 23:15:25
Looking great Neevo, hard to believe it's the same bike.
I realy like the speed hole in the levers, nice detail. I'm thinking those killer headlight mounts need a few, maybe in a triangle patern.
Just a suggestion, you go Brother!

The levers already come with those speed holes, thats why they are well done and look good ;)

Good point on the headlight brackets, I'm probably going to mount the front indicators in the middle so will see how that looks then see if speed holes will improve the look.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 10, 2012, 03:39:34
Went and popped the latest addition to the shed on the bench, it's shitty and cheap but more than good enough for what I need:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/E7AE21C1-B70F-4036-9D8A-BB0AA7436EBE-2501-0000027ADCEF7CF2.jpg)

After that I was feeling frisky for some more bike building action so I thought I would just quickly fiddle with the tank:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/F69485DE-D663-4314-A4B6-77D492B992A5-2501-0000027AE292534D.jpg)

Roughly cut the cap mount out along with the drainage lines:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/96771948-8C6C-40AC-8A98-650B546BCF87-2501-0000027AE75024F4.jpg)

Cleaned up the flange on the mount (which in the end got ground right back):

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/35AA1BEA-AA8A-4292-A504-A3DDE086E156-2501-0000027AEC34C209.jpg)

Used the mount to trace a hole on the tank:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/16D0680A-62A4-4296-BFBB-51CE03791126-2501-0000027AF0F4961B.jpg)

Cut a couple of holes underneath the tank for the drainage lines:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/93DFF098-0A2C-41E8-AAFA-8B6AD9A9D2DE-2501-0000027AFA2ED2A7.jpg)

And after a little bit of drainage line fiddling... HOLY SHIT IT WORKED:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/FB46FCDC-9411-498F-B7F2-A6D91D9F7661-2501-0000027AFFC49FF0.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/35C24123-3DDE-4A62-963B-6633F2585891-2501-0000027B04652A07.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/64359503-DA43-428A-AC8F-3875F9C07F6D-2501-0000027B08FC38E4.jpg)

Test fit on the bike:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/E6FBADD3-E40D-4C79-BFCD-90717B5F7E29-2501-0000027B0DEC2375.jpg)

Already ordered my Hong Kong eBay special R1 alloy fuel cap, hopefully it arrives this week and isn't shit ;)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 10, 2012, 03:39:51
Went and popped the latest addition to the shed on the bench, it's shitty and cheap but more than good enough for what I need:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/E7AE21C1-B70F-4036-9D8A-BB0AA7436EBE-2501-0000027ADCEF7CF2.jpg)

After that I was feeling frisky for some more bike building action so I thought I would just quickly fiddle with the tank:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/F69485DE-D663-4314-A4B6-77D492B992A5-2501-0000027AE292534D.jpg)

Roughly cut the cap mount out along with the drainage lines:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/96771948-8C6C-40AC-8A98-650B546BCF87-2501-0000027AE75024F4.jpg)

Cleaned up the flange on the mount (which in the end got ground right back):

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/35AA1BEA-AA8A-4292-A504-A3DDE086E156-2501-0000027AEC34C209.jpg)

Used the mount to trace a hole on the tank:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/16D0680A-62A4-4296-BFBB-51CE03791126-2501-0000027AF0F4961B.jpg)

Cut a couple of holes underneath the tank for the drainage lines:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/93DFF098-0A2C-41E8-AAFA-8B6AD9A9D2DE-2501-0000027AFA2ED2A7.jpg)

And after a little bit of drainage line fiddling and removing the baffle in the opening because it was hitting the tunnel... HOLY SHIT IT WORKED:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/FB46FCDC-9411-498F-B7F2-A6D91D9F7661-2501-0000027AFFC49FF0.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/35C24123-3DDE-4A62-963B-6633F2585891-2501-0000027B04652A07.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/64359503-DA43-428A-AC8F-3875F9C07F6D-2501-0000027B08FC38E4.jpg)

Test fit on the bike:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/E6FBADD3-E40D-4C79-BFCD-90717B5F7E29-2501-0000027B0DEC2375.jpg)

Already ordered my Hong Kong eBay special R1 alloy fuel cap, hopefully it arrives this week and isn't shit ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MickyC on Oct 10, 2012, 03:59:42
nice mate tank will look great
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: pandknz on Oct 10, 2012, 05:54:52
well done neevo

sander looks good, I need one of those, where did you get it?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 10, 2012, 05:56:24
Supercheap Auto. I had a gift card so was looking for things to spend it on. $129.99 I think.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: pandknz on Oct 10, 2012, 05:58:31
nice, might have to check them out

cheers
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Oct 10, 2012, 07:06:58
Great work man, looks like an ashtray at the moment  ;D looking forward to seeing the bling cap  :o
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Oct 10, 2012, 13:55:09
I want one of those belt sander, don't have anywhere to put it though.
 If it's made in China Harbor freight Tools or Northern Toll will have it in US
Tank is looking good I want to do one of them now  ::) (I'll just add it to the list of things I haven't finished  ;D )
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Oct 10, 2012, 17:58:49
Great work man, looks like an ashtray at the moment  ;D looking forward to seeing the bling cap  :o

Not so much.  It's a cup holder with drainage...
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 13, 2012, 02:56:34
Cup holder/ashtray has been welded in:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/2947AFC0-E6F4-418F-8B95-6131DD7DF3AC-5770-0000049EB73FEF19.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/FE357577-7737-464E-908B-7460CD133B33-5770-0000049EBBF00BB6.jpg)

I removed one of the drainage tubes in the end as it was a pain getting the mount in with 2, also tried to braze the tube in but couldn't for the life of me get the brass to flow, in the end used the TIG:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/60E0CDC0-CB61-4308-BDD3-01FFD278C53E-5770-0000049EC1273BBA.jpg)

Also fitted my fuel lines (reserve and general), not pretty but hopefully functional:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/F09CBF29-7DD3-41A6-99D3-B8E0DD75E1B1-5770-0000049ECA17D2CF.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0FC808A9-5179-43E8-9045-CEAB6B892D18-5770-0000049EC5AC8449.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/AC2DE709-48AD-4D91-B3EB-D38984FCB4D2-5770-0000049ECEB0A430.jpg)

Next up for the tank is making and welding on the petcock mount, then it's ready to pressure test and start bodywork :D
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 13, 2012, 03:47:19
Alternate solution to mounting rear indicators made also:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/EDE7D91D-B1F7-4ADE-8C17-23DF5EC004B4-5810-000004A335F7FE1C.jpg)

Going to mount them on the frame rails:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/369CD25C-D4BF-4E88-BFAA-3686A0A7EE9D-5810-000004A33AE15F00.jpg)

These will not only hold the indicators but will also hold the exhausts (doing twin exhausts out the back) via an Alu hanger similar to the brake stay I made:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/3A023A8A-815A-4763-973B-535E788C5A05-5810-000004A33F71666D.jpg)

These are the exhausts, will be running 2 out the back and looking to sweep them up near the seat like a Ducati monster:

(http://www.dan-moto.com/DM_INT/bmz_cache/e/e237f8da35e2e5e477b8667714cace32.image.550x550.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MickyC on Oct 13, 2012, 20:23:04
diging those pipes, she will be killer
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Oct 13, 2012, 21:12:42
Are the exhausts from Danmoto?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 13, 2012, 21:13:57
Are the exhausts from Danmoto?

Yeah, are they ok?

I was going to have a go at making my own but these are cheaper than the materials almost.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Oct 13, 2012, 21:18:47
Personally I haven't dealt with them but Danmoto seems to have a very good reputation
It's similar to the silencer on Brendon's bike, surprising how well it works (and about 1/3 the cost)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: CB Josh on Oct 13, 2012, 22:21:59
Great work Neevo! Way to make me feel lazy for not turning any wrenches today. haha
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 13, 2012, 22:29:03
It's similar to the silencer on Brendon's bike, surprising how well it works (and about 1/3 the cost)

Is that a thread on here?

Great work Neevo! Way to make me feel lazy for not turning any wrenches today. haha

My pleasure ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Oct 13, 2012, 22:47:22
Brendon's bike is in with my 360 stuff somewhere, I made an adapter to fit silencer to the super loud pipe he had on it
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 14, 2012, 18:38:12
Had a crack at my petcock mount yesterday too, v1 didn't work very well as it fouled the frame when I put the tank on and required some force to get everything back together. Not ideal when everything is painted. V2 was a more slim design:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/A15E320E-5405-40BD-9D2A-4D4C27D90E96-7375-000005950447C6C5.jpg)

Tacked it onto the tank to see how it all works:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/D419BAC2-FA64-448C-9477-41EE1FE6941E-7375-00000595140C8137.jpg)

Test fit with my petcock (which I cannot remember what bike it's off now, PJ???):

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/E2D2920C-65D7-4133-AE33-4714F7D058C1-7375-000005951A2B7A50.jpg)

It's tight but should work, tap can be turned no problems and the outlet clears the upper shock mount:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/2D5C60CF-95D6-4B7B-86A7-83FBA95D8E1F-7375-000005951FDAD4A4.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/DCA366AD-A564-4F66-8B24-40FA6F457F1F-7375-00000595255F5F95.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Oct 14, 2012, 22:27:14
 ;D Suzuki Intruder
As it's remote tap you could have mounted it in the 'triangle' a bit further back and unbolt it when you want to take tank off (that's how Suzuki do it)
 Where it's mounted now looks kinda stock though  8)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 14, 2012, 22:58:56
;D Suzuki Intruder
As it's remote tap you could have mounted it in the 'triangle' a bit further back and unbolt it when you want to take tank off (that's how Suzuki do it)
 Where it's mounted now looks kinda stock though  8)

Intruder, that's the one.

I'm not sure I 100% like the current position so may look at relocating it. I kept the tap on the tank though so I could shut the fuel off and remove the tank. I suppose I could do this with flexible hoses and a tap that can be removed, its just that space back there is pretty limited with the monoshock. Also wanted to keep the triangle clean and clear.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Oct 15, 2012, 02:21:07
What's the bolt spacing and fuel inlet hole space?
I think I may make you something 'neat'  ;)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 15, 2012, 03:58:07
What's the bolt spacing and fuel inlet hole space?
I think I may make you something 'neat'  ;)

Hmmmmmmm, intriguing! What are you thinking?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 17, 2012, 03:58:00
Big thanks to BCBarker for the latest arrival:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/D7B4952F-5D8D-437D-BB1D-DC02F7025E57-10429-000007E7257112C5.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/D39B4CE5-234A-4A6D-91C1-CC82EA23536E-10429-000007E72B0E307A.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/4155363A-7462-4921-8D80-77775EBCEB92-10429-000007E733D45D95.jpg)

400F head, with cam and engine studs. This is because of the damage to my head and cam, this was a great price and probably a cheaper fix than sorting the damaged one.

The good: clean cam, journals, in tact fins

Needs attention: blue paint (fixed when the motor gets vapour blasted), spark plug broken off in head leaving just the metal portion (hoping I can simply drill this out), cruddy valves (nothing a simple clean and lap shouldn't fix hopefully)

All in all I'm chuffed and hope to have it in prime condition soon.

Quick question on the rockers, the gold has all worn off, is this a critical issue or should I leave it? Was going to price resurfacing the rocker arms but not sure if the cam would need resurfacing too as they are essentially matched aren't they from the wear?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Oct 17, 2012, 04:20:34
Rockers were sometimes copper plated so only the pads got hardened, the rest is just normal forging, tough rather than hard
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 17, 2012, 04:29:40
Do how do I tell if they need resurfacing? Are you suggesting its probably just the copper coating that's gone?

Other than that the rocker surfaces seem smooth.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Oct 17, 2012, 12:16:01
Only need re-surfacing/building up if the pads are worn, post a close up of any your not sure about
The plating doesn't do anything it's only needed during production to prevent chemicals hardening the entire thing.
You's see it on con-rods as well so small-end can be hardened.
I saw a Honda video years ago where they were hardening rods, set up looked like a Christmas tree then dipped in a molten salt for 'x' amount of hours
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: BCBarker on Oct 17, 2012, 12:25:28
Glad to help out! Still can't believe how much shipping was! But it looks like it got there in good condition and in almost record time. Enjoy!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: BCBarker on Oct 17, 2012, 12:27:48
oh, and I'm pretty sure an easy out and some heat/oil should remove that plug. It moved a bit before it snapped on tear down. soak, twist repeat.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Oct 17, 2012, 12:31:20
Australia is a long way from USA, stuff I sent cost almost as much to ship as buy.
Yay for USPS though, heck of a lot cheaper than DHL, UPS or Fed-Ex (over $100.00 cheaper)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 17, 2012, 17:25:20
Aaaaaaand prices in the US are way cheaper than over here too. Do even with high shipping costs us "down under" are usually still way ahead.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: pandknz on Oct 17, 2012, 18:08:13
Aaaaaaand prices in the US are way cheaper than over here too. Do even with high shipping costs us "down under" are usually still way ahead.

Exactly right Neevo, I have brought many thgings from the US, one that stands out was a full set performance rotors for my Chevy Blazer with Pads, $200 to buy $150 to ship with USPS.

at less than $100/corner you could not do that for a Holden in AU let alone performance ones  ;D 8)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 17, 2012, 19:11:26
True.

I find pricing with shipping is approx 1/2 that vs local. Crazy difference.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 17, 2012, 20:44:16
Stuck at work and the missus has told me a parcel from Hong Kong has arrived... I hope it's not shitty quality (pleeeeeeeeeease):

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/57D80D0A-EC0D-489A-BDD4-8EDC4E5603CA-11229-0000093C9FF4C6A4.jpg)

Fingers crossed it looks ok on the bike too, I may have welded the cap mount about -1 degree out, oops.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 18, 2012, 06:19:45
So turns out the cap is pretty good for only $25, can't complain at that price.

Issue 1 was the tank tunnel, it was hitting the lock and so it wouldn't close. I was going to cut out the tunnel and weld in a flat bit, thought I would try a BFH instead and it worked a charm:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/46D53AB8-64E9-4CF5-A95B-61B605F7C0FB-11809-0000099F5010B4B8.jpg)

Still a bit of gentle refining to make it look pretty.

The cap took a spacer underneath each bolt to get the inside cap to sit at the right height but looks brilliant I think:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/FB32423F-0CD5-4A01-83C4-633F6016DC67-11809-0000099F41066C13.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/EBE57F0F-7E6C-4114-8747-64C34F17A75B-11809-0000099F466A7147.jpg)

My fear was correct and the cap is about -1 degree out, what should I do, leave it or cut out out and reweld it back in straight?

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/DE2D3E2A-CD57-4E6F-95BA-D8D9EEBCC4BE-11809-0000099F4AD13EFD-1.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/431D2C70-21B4-403A-9D01-EABF3846A4B9-11809-0000099F5488BDE8.jpg)

If I should cut it out, what's the best way of doing this to keep the cuts accurate and thin?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: BCBarker on Oct 18, 2012, 07:55:42
Cut it out. I'd mark the center of the tank with a sharpie and mark the offset in the filler... Then just line them up!... I'm sure it's easier typed than done.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: spotty on Oct 18, 2012, 07:56:03
if you don't, every time you look down at it while you're riding, you're going to thing "that shits me up the wall.....I really wish I'd sorted it"    having said that, fecking stunning work all round and 1 deg ain't that much....well done bloke, i'm hoping to do something similar when i get my 'onda4s this summer, i've got a large chunk of petrol cap that was chopped out of the top of a KR250 tank
keep up the good work
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 18, 2012, 08:21:20
if you don't, every time you look down at it while you're riding, you're going to thing "that shits me up the wall.....I really wish I'd sorted it"

You couldn't be more right on that one!!!!

Thinking I might get brutal with the angle grinder and cut a big hexagon rather than trying to cut it tight to the mount. That should give me more than enough twist to get it right.

Edit:

Turns out you can get 1mm cutting discs for the angle grinder. Will grab one of those and cut the mount out tight around the top on the existing weld. Job done ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: stroker crazy on Oct 18, 2012, 10:12:32
Cap looks cool!

The only trouble is it makes the tank look a little ..... ummmm .... battered.

Crazy
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: BCBarker on Oct 18, 2012, 14:18:09
i feel like you need a body saw.... really thin cut around the circle... hexagon might mess up the body lines by 1 degree.

(http://www.gison.com.tw/product/l-image1/Air-Body-Saw-(9000bpm)_gp-848b.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 18, 2012, 18:59:56
The only trouble is it makes the tank look a little ..... ummmm .... battered.

Crazy

Yeah you're not wrong. I'm confident I can get it looking good with some body filler in the end though.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 18, 2012, 19:20:41
i feel like you need a body saw.... really thin cut around the circle... hexagon might mess up the body lines by 1 degree.

(http://www.gison.com.tw/product/l-image1/Air-Body-Saw-(9000bpm)_gp-848b.jpg)

Yeah you're right Brian. I'm going to cut round the mount where it was cut originally now. That body saw is interesting, might look around for something to cut it with other than a 1mm cutting disc.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Oct 18, 2012, 20:05:19
My compressor isn't big enough to run a body saw so I bought a cheap electric jig saw and use metal cutting blades
If I was doing it again, I would get variable speed one
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 18, 2012, 21:52:32
My compressor isn't big enough to run a body saw so I bought a cheap electric jig saw and use metal cutting blades
If I was doing it again, I would get variable speed one

Can you get thin enough blades to cut the sheet and follow the curve?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: BCBarker on Oct 18, 2012, 22:17:23
They can use the special thin blades or standard hack saw blades. I used to work in a body shop. This it an amazingly useful tool.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Oct 19, 2012, 02:56:35
I grind the backs down just below where the guide wheel runs.
Base plate is pretty flimsy with sharpish edges so a thick plastic 'pad' keeps everything running smooth plus lifts blade (I'm not using it to cut anything thick)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Oct 20, 2012, 01:37:46
No one else will ever notice the tiny difference.  And you never look at the filler cap while riding, so.................................

I'd leave it alone.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 20, 2012, 01:56:22
No one else will ever notice the tiny difference.  And you never look at the filler cap while riding, so.................................

I'd leave it alone.

teazer I would rather do it properly, otherwise it would shit me every time I looked at the bike. Planning some racing stripes down the centre of the tank too which would probably make it more noticeable too.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: RustyOlive on Oct 20, 2012, 12:06:00
Man! You've been busy since the last i logged in. Lol
Looks great! But I agree. Redo the cap. Its the one thing that will always be in your thoughts and eye every time you step over the bike.. Its not off my much, but enough to make a grown man grind his teeth over. Lol

Good work though man! Keep it up
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 20, 2012, 21:23:51
Man! You've been busy since the last i logged in. Lol

Good work though man! Keep it up

You haven't!!!!! Where's the updates bud?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: spotty on Oct 20, 2012, 21:39:26
two other poss fixes for the cap...
would it be possible to make up a ring/plate, with the appropriate holes drilled in it to match the bolt holes of the cap, attach a handle to said ring, bolt it to the cap holes (having first removed shiny ally cap), heat up (red hot with oxy torch) all round the cap area and use the handle to the 'twist' the whole area by that elusive 1 or 2 degrees, would it cause warpage of the whole area?
if you are going to cut it out and re weld back in, i'd say use a dremel rather than a normal sized angle grinder, you'll get much finer and accurate cuts and less heat build up, you can get mini anglegriner type blades or steel cut off tools to use in dremels
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Oct 22, 2012, 13:30:51
Any updates?

Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 22, 2012, 15:48:28
Any updates?

Not yet, didn't do any work on the bike this weekend as I promised the missus some time to herself and I was looking after the little one. Hope to fix up the fuel cap this weekend coming.

Quick q for those in the know. What's the best way of finishing tubes I've welded. Been using the angle grinder with a 120 grit flap disc but it still leaves flat spots. I assume something like a linishing belt? Ideal grits to work it easily?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Oct 22, 2012, 17:40:53
Probably320 to 600 grit, will give a 'polished' finish
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Oct 22, 2012, 19:45:06
When you say finishing the tubes, do you mean cleaning up welds or removing weld spatter or something else?  Drenmmel with small sanding drum works well.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 22, 2012, 23:23:14
When you say finishing the tubes, do you mean cleaning up welds or removing weld spatter or something else?  Drenmmel with small sanding drum works well.

Cleaning up welds teazer. I've put some new tubes in places and also removed brackets etc. I took to the tubes with the angle grinder and its not a perfectly round finish. Looking for a way to improve it prior to paint or PC. That's why I was thinking a linishing belt as I could pull it around the tube to get it round and smooth again.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Oct 23, 2012, 01:29:41
I use the highly sophisticated surgical tool aka an angle grinder for rough stuff, and a dremmel with small sanding drums for welds.  On tubes, I usually end up with 1" or 25mm :-) wide strips of emery tape and I pull that around the tube.  Hold it in both hands and pull it back and forth across the tube. Works like a charm.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 23, 2012, 02:26:25
That's what I've been trying to get the tubes nice and finished. How perfect does the frame have to be prior to paint or PC?

I would rather fix defects now rather than have them show up in the final finish.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: RustyOlive on Oct 23, 2012, 12:48:08
You haven't!!!!! Where's the updates bud?

Oh actaually. I have been. Hahaha. Just don't update much since you know who.. lol

Bike its not %100 done. Buy all the fab work is complete. Actually been riding her. She rides amazingly awesome!! Lol
 
Getting cold up here. Winter is just around the corner, once its here. I'll be tearing her all down again and start working on the paint and finishes.

Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 24, 2012, 07:04:32
Oh actaually. I have been. Hahaha. Just don't update much since you know who.. lol

Bike its not %100 done. Buy all the fab work is complete. Actually been riding her. She rides amazingly awesome!! Lol

PM me some pics bud, would love to see it in its latest incarnation.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: pandknz on Oct 24, 2012, 07:47:58
if we are talking about the bike in your signature I'd also love to see some more picks  8)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: CB Josh on Oct 24, 2012, 13:29:05
if we are talking about the bike in your signature I'd also love to see some more picks  8)

AGREED!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: LuisN on Oct 24, 2012, 13:32:32
Wow amazing Progress.. Great build! =)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: RustyOlive on Oct 24, 2012, 18:41:36
PM me some pics bud, would love to see it in its latest incarnation.
if we are talking about the bike in your signature I'd also love to see some more picks  8)

Thanks guys.
I'll PM you photos later tonight when I'm home.

I have a blog going as well. But sadly, not up to date. Its on my to do list. Lol
But If you want. There some photos at rustyolive.com
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Oct 24, 2012, 20:23:13
That's what I've been trying to get the tubes nice and finished. How perfect does the frame have to be prior to paint or PC?

I would rather fix defects now rather than have them show up in the final finish.

PC isn't real thick so pretty much anything you can see, you will see, sometimes it looks even worse with colour
With paint you can filler then prime/flat as needed to get nice finish
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 27, 2012, 03:37:33
Feeling pleased with today's progress, which I think sees the tank in a much better place, ready for pressure testing and maybe even some body filler soon :)

First up was a trip to the hardware store, something to remove the filler cap. Had a look at ultra thin cut off discs and zigsaw blades, however there was nothing there I was comfortable with. In the end Bunnings had a super cheap rotary tool, and I thought for $40 odd I couldn't go wrong:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/3C89B2AC-27EB-4B38-A3BF-4065BB61EBB2-1882-000000C9F540F8FD.jpg)

I ripped through about 7 cutting discs but the flexible extension on the rotary tool was a pleasure to use. In the end cut it out with minimal gap:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/701F2684-902E-4002-BCAF-366CADE69C5F-1882-000000C9FA94870D.jpg)

Thought I would employ the cut once measure twice rule this time. Tacked the mount in an popped the cap back on to see how it was looking, it looked fine in person but the pictures made it look a little off still:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/9EAE0EE2-0DD5-4786-856A-BEF2E005319C-1882-000000C9FF929F37.jpg)

So I used a drill bit to see where the centre line was:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/D0A50548-D512-4D10-947E-292D2D143DB7-1882-000000CA03F56D49.jpg)

It looked a fraction off so I cut the top tack and twisted it around a touch:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/CF6DF953-77EC-435F-9EC0-698265CAD520-1882-000000CA11C2FA93.jpg)

Much better:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0E4C6C5A-FD6B-4DDD-BC47-F94E6A095288-1882-000000CA0D17DFE7.jpg)

Next up was getting the bastard water tight. I grabbed my dirtbike gear box and filled it with water:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/CFEE965C-18C6-4026-987B-FB22BBF4B55D-1882-000000CA164BFF2E.jpg)

Popped the fuel cap on, blocked one of the fuel lines and used the other fuel line to pump air in. I didn't have much pressure but used about 30-40 psi to find leaks. Took bloody ages but in the end I got all of them. Will take the tank to the local radiator repair shop to get a final ok (chap has tested it a few times now).

Very pleased everyone pressed me to fix the cap, it would have irritated the shit out of me and it looks great now:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/5FFB9EC5-F78C-4455-BF92-777AB155A882-1882-000000CA1AE3B169.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/C9E6BC37-1F16-49CB-8914-E1B037F6BBFA-1882-000000CA1F91F217.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/A2656D23-D21A-4D74-9291-2CDCDDB15C27-1882-000000CA2465801C.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/2D8CFBBF-1715-439A-AAC4-1E56A3733937-1882-000000CA292EA6D4.jpg)

Anything else I should be doing with the tank prior to bodywork? Want to make sure it's safe, will hold fuel before I go any further.

Next up some bodywork. Never done it before so have been researching a fair bit to see what to do. Seeing ducatiboy's paint job made me very jealous however I'm not sure I want to plow a grand into it. Went and had a chat to the local bodyshop suppliers the other day and thinking about buying a gun to try myself, is this a sensible thing?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Oct 27, 2012, 08:21:55
Now look what you've gone and done ;D Of course its a good idea to get yourself a spray gun, only way to learn a new skill  :o you are getting a great repertoire  8)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Oct 27, 2012, 10:03:58
Yes, yes, yes. I worked in a bodyshop after school waaaaay back when and learned the basics. That helped a lot with my past rattle can paint jobs. But this time around I bought an HVLP gravity feed gun and it makes the WORLD of difference.
 Do it.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 27, 2012, 20:15:09
Yes, yes, yes. I worked in a bodyshop after school waaaaay back when and learned the basics. That helped a lot with my past rattle can paint jobs. But this time around I bought an HVLP gravity feed gun and it makes the WORLD of difference.
 Do it.

Hahahahahah, no problem then, I will give it a go. Some questions on painting. I've been looking at videos on YouTube to see what to do, however I'm not able to answer a few specific items.

1. How do you paint a tank where there are surfaces all over rather than a panel. Do you hang it so you can access all areas or do you paint the underneath first and then tackle the top later. Is the bottom finished in the same way as the top with clear etc too?
2. If I wanted to do a job similar to ducatiboy's (main colour, 2nd colour panels with a 3rd colour separation line - http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=32827.msg462218#msg462218). How is this done and in what order? I would assume paint the main colour, paint the panels then mask the joining line and paint the seperating strip?

Any other good resources for paint learning?

Cheers.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: BCBarker on Oct 28, 2012, 00:56:40
Yep. Hang it. You should have enough room above and below it to comfortably see and spray all sides. The body shop where I used to work and now paint my tins uses wire coat hangers to hang parts. Sometimes I use an I/V stand to hang small parts. Something that you can hang parts from and move around is helpful.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: BCBarker on Oct 28, 2012, 00:59:47
As far as order, if you are just thinking a uniform line for the separation line, I was taught to paint the separation color first, then use lining tape to mask it. That way you get an even width too. Also I was taught to clear at each step. Helps to build depth in the final paint job.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 28, 2012, 01:03:04
As far as order, if you are just thinking a uniform line for the separation line, I was taught to paint the separation color first, then use lining tape to mask it. That way you get an even width too. Also I was taught to clear at each step. Helps to build depth in the final paint job.

Gotcha! Just watched a video showing this masking technique, much simpler than want I was proposing.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Oct 29, 2012, 08:39:44
They are both on it...
Hang the tank and pin stripe the line between the two colors.
Here is how I do mine.
 
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 30, 2012, 23:37:04
So we have some good news, turns out the tank is airtight. When I was testing it I was pumping about 30 PSI into it, apparently this is waaaaaay too much but hopefully means its going to be up to the job. Got a professional to do the final check (local raidator chap who is a mad keen motorcyclist and has been testing it for free :) ) and after a final seal on a tiny hole with some bronze it should be all ready to go.

Question: How should I triple check its going to be fuel tight? Should I fill it with soapy water and see if it leaks? Put a liner in it (don't really want to do this)?

I will be sanding it this weekend and putting body filler on it too, want to make sure i have it fuel tight before I put too much work into it.




Also been playing around with some designs for the paint. Had intentions of a complicated design but it looked shithouse, Im not sure my deisgn skills are up to making it look good. So I thought I would try classic racer and ended up with this in silver metallic and a dark charcoal stripe pattern. What do people think?

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/PaintDesign.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: bradj on Oct 31, 2012, 05:18:24
super low air pressure in tha tank and a little soap and water on your welds. also i always fill tank with a pound or two of wood screws and shake the hell for awhile out of it to clean any slag off your welds inside the tank beats cleaning your carbs over and over for years ;) bike looks good man
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 31, 2012, 05:29:27
super low air pressure in tha tank and a little soap and water on your welds. also i always fill tank with a pound or two of wood screws and shake the hell for awhile out of it to clean any slag off your welds inside the tank beats cleaning your carbs over and over for years ;) bike looks good man

Done the water/pressure bit Brad. 20 odd PSI and the tank underwater in a tub of water. No leaks! You think this is going to be fuel tight now?

Good idea on the wood screws. I have some Sheetrock screws here that are quite sharp, will use those. Not looking forward to that, wonder if I can automate it somehow. Heard about putting it into the dryer, pity I don't have a dryer :(
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: bradj on Oct 31, 2012, 05:32:25
jack up your car tie tank to tire and let run in gear hahahahahah no dont it could go south quick
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 31, 2012, 05:33:59
jack up your car tie tank to tire and let run in gear hahahahahah no dont it could go south quick

Oh shit that's tempting ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: bradj on Oct 31, 2012, 05:38:30
a guy i know did it the tank was perfect inside after. but i gotta say it wasnt with out its risk, wrech car distroy tank. but........
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Oct 31, 2012, 07:07:13
I often wondered if the hardware store would chuck a tank up in their paint shaker/mixer for me...  ::) 
As long as the tank fit's in a 5 gallon bucket, wrap it in a blanket and stick it in one... If I ever have to coat the inside of a tank, I'm at least going to ask...
 
(http://www.emptypaintcans.com/images/containers/tools/gyromixer.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: BCBarker on Oct 31, 2012, 11:45:05
I always think it looks better with a little color :)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-0BCIilR7Kz0/UJE42snHpzI/AAAAAAAAB08/lQQH6FqMxfY/s800/Neevo1.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-VuBfsBaOBtI/UJE42u3ZXHI/AAAAAAAAB1E/CnP6Jdx1FNw/s800/Neevo2.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3UNEmn1KFJI/UJE42nBnb6I/AAAAAAAAB1A/HOGi6eELF7I/s800/Neevo3.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: pandknz on Oct 31, 2012, 18:41:55
I like the yellow/gold
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 31, 2012, 19:50:14
Interesting Brian, I did want to inject some colour but didn't know how to do it well. I think this bike is sublime and was trying to replicate it but couldn't get it looking classy enough:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/DD0C8220-19C5-43B2-8479-B14151480260-2576-0000025534B66DF3.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: BCBarker on Oct 31, 2012, 21:04:23
It's all in the details. If you hold the paint details back from the edge I think it helps "class it up." For me, a touch of color on white/gray let's me know the opted to leave the rest white/gray and it was a design choice. I find most single color and white/gray/black paint jobs boring. Even my 350f I find a bit boring. I want to repainted it with new details. But I have a few other projects to finish first. :)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 31, 2012, 22:29:58
It's all in the details. If you hold the paint details back from the edge I think it helps "class it up".

Yeah that's what I did and it looked shit ;)

Might redo the pics with white on the tins so I can doodle on them as opposed to using photoshop.

Paint guru's please feel free to play around too :D
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Autotek on Oct 31, 2012, 23:25:19
I just picked up this thread. One hell of a difference from the beginning. Looks great man.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Oct 31, 2012, 23:34:04
I just picked up this thread. One hell of a difference from the beginning. Looks great man.

Thanks Autotek. Its massive amounts of fun to be honest, I love nothing more than tinkering away on the bike in my shed on the weekends. Mrs might not agree too much though ;)

For those creative mobs out there please feel free to get your crayons out and have a go at some killer designs:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/PaintDesignBlank.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 01, 2012, 23:40:58
Question:

My knee cutouts are just 1.5mm sheet steel. Should I be reinforcing these at all with anything or should I just pop some filler on top? Don't want to have the filler drop off the bottom of the cutouts, especially as they hang down past the frame.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Autotek on Nov 02, 2012, 00:13:57
Neevo, the roll should give plenty of strength, I wonder however, how would you reenforce it at this point?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 02, 2012, 00:45:23
See bottom left, this is the back side of the lower half of the knee cutout.

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0FC808A9-5179-43E8-9045-CEAB6B892D18-5770-0000049EC5AC8449.jpg)

I was thinking of welding another strip of 1.5mm sheet to the back to make it double thickness. Maybe the filler on the outside will help in this regard. Just cautious that if the bottom edge gets knocked it could chip the filler and cause it to fall off. I might be panicking over nothing though as the 1.5mm is pretty robust.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Autotek on Nov 02, 2012, 00:53:58
No, I think your right. I have to do the same thing to my rear cowl on the bonneville soon. As you know it is so easy to burn through. Are you using a Mig or Tig. I have learned with my Tig I can turn the amps way down and use Mig wire as consumable. Some small maybe 3/16 rod would probably be plenty strong around that lower edge. 
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Autotek on Nov 02, 2012, 00:58:33
BTW I like what you did and may steal your idea. My tank is higher than my seat pan and it bugs me a bit that they do not line up. I may end up adding metal to the lower edge of the tank...(http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r580/Bradymilo/b729129b.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 02, 2012, 01:00:35
Steal away... none of my ideas are original, I stole most of them off this site ;)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 02, 2012, 04:22:12
Good news everybody... we have a tank that holds fuel :D

To say I'm pleased is a big understatement. So I will be working the bodyfiller tomorrow and keen to hear people's thoughts on how I can replicate the top crease on the tank in body filler?

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0E4C6C5A-FD6B-4DDD-BC47-F94E6A095288-1882-000000CA0D17DFE7.jpg)

The crease left and right of the filler cap needs to be replicated on the near side as the metal is a bit warped. I was thinking a file wrapped in sandpaper, thoughts?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: sinbad85 on Nov 02, 2012, 08:49:01
file in the paper should be sweet!...
looking really good mate...
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Autotek on Nov 02, 2012, 10:32:08
Thats a tough one, without seeing the tank in person I would hesitate to give an informed opinion. Adding is better than removing, you dont want a thin spot. If you know a good body man take it to him and get his opinion. Customers constantly try to get estimates from me over the phone and with body work, its simply impossible. Even with photos it tough. BTW, where are you Neevo?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 02, 2012, 17:21:29
Autotek I was looking to copy the crease in body filler not sand down the steel (not sure if you misunderstood the question).

Btw I'm in western Sydney.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Autotek on Nov 02, 2012, 18:24:47
yes good, that should work. try making a sanding block with the shape of the body line, then it will be impossible to sand too far. Oh damn, western Sydney, thats a long way for the east coast here. Some of my friends have worked hail storms there. I have not made the trip but would love to some day.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Nov 02, 2012, 19:00:12
Autotek I was looking to copy the crease in body filler not sand down the steel (not sure if you misunderstood the question).

Btw I'm in western Sydney.

I lived in Baulkham (sp?) Hills a million years ago.   
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 03, 2012, 06:10:16
Holy arse monkey body work is exhausting. Probably my shitty technique as I've spent all day mixing filler and sanding it back. However I have the top of the tank pretty close to perfect :)

In the end it turned out I wasn't going to be able to replicate the crease in the tank near the filler cap, so a decision was made mid way to use filler to remove it. It makes the tank match the seat a little closer and also has a nice squared off look which is a little chunkier/tougher looking.

Here is where I am up to tonight, still need to finish sanding the sides (ran out of 80 grit) and then it will be ready for a coat of epoxy etch primer to stop it rusting:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/14700525-B466-4733-94D5-55FFEBF96219-6407-000006EB685B931E.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Nov 03, 2012, 08:42:05
I love the smell of Body Filler in the morning.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ducatiboy on Nov 03, 2012, 19:45:05
Quote
I lived in Baulkham (sp?) Hills a million years ago

Sydney's bible belt!!

You're making awesome progress Neevo esp with a little one slowing you down. Keep it up
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: stroker crazy on Nov 03, 2012, 21:54:03
+1!

Crazy
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 04, 2012, 05:32:16
I love the smell of Body Filler in the morning.

It's a funky smell but quite pleasant. I'm not sure my technique is correct as I used about 3/4 kg of filler and sanded about 80% of that back off, the workshop looked like Lapland!

The result is quite pleasing though, it's taken me about 9 hours of relentless filler mixing and sanding back. It's not perfect but its only been epoxy etch primered and I'm hoping I can make tweaks with filler primer.

Here's how it currently sits:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/63A134CE-9EA2-4CCD-99BD-64DBF3306B0A-414-0000003CBA466D78.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/6E5676E3-57FF-4909-8BCD-44D38E095335-414-0000003CBF02F0B5.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/9CF066CA-0812-4E21-8956-C95FC5BA9F84-414-0000003CC332E324.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/41B09B23-C094-42EE-AB0D-CCF4607A39A4-414-0000003CC838B544.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/DEED5161-45C6-43F2-A5C7-C4382F977CC5-414-0000003CCC9F661F.jpg)

Max filler depth is about 1/8" and that's around the fuelcap, everywhere else is mostly a skim coat except for the knee cutouts which were very wobbly.

The end result as I said is pleasing, only issues to fix are a small dent front left and the transition from flat to creased along the centre line of the tank is a bit clunky where it flattens out.

What's the best next step? Filler primer and fix the issues or look at a bit more filler? Can I put filler on epoxy primer (eg for the dent)?

You're making awesome progress Neevo esp with a little one slowing you down. Keep it up

I have to thank the missus for that! I do my stint to give her a break then she lets me crack on in the shed. She's very kind and very supportive of the build.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MickyC on Nov 04, 2012, 05:44:58
The tank is going to wicked when its finished.

Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: pandknz on Nov 04, 2012, 06:50:30
Neevo, you have done a grand job of that tank, I'm dreading mine and I only have to remove a couple of dents and paint it LOL

nice work mate!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Kwality on Nov 04, 2012, 07:21:18
Looking good Neevo!  Closing in on a year  and 100 pages for the build and things are more than beginning to take shape.  Coming together nicely!
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 04, 2012, 07:26:24
Looking good Neevo!  Closing in on a year  and 100 pages for the build and things are more than beginning to take shape.  Coming together nicely!

Wow a year! 26th Nov rolled around quick.

I'm pretty pleased with the progress as I gave myself 24 months to get it finished. Fingers crossed I can get it rolling under its own steam by the end of summer around April.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: kelvis on Nov 04, 2012, 07:34:31
Hey Neevo,

I remember reading a few pages back in your thread that you were thinking of investing in a spray guy and painting the bodywork yourself, thought I'd share this with you:

(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i424/kelvis05/P1070038.jpg)

Bought this the other day for $120 (I'm in Tassie) from the local auto paint shop and I must say, for the money, it is awesome! Painted my tank and seat today (only basecoat, pinstripes & clear tomorrow) and I am really impressed with the finish that can be achieved, heaps of adjustability, air pressure, flow rate, pattern size. Give it a shot (pun not intended!)

(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i424/kelvis05/P1070026.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 04, 2012, 07:45:35
Hey Neevo,

I remember reading a few pages back in your thread that you were thinking of investing in a spray guy and painting the bodywork yourself, thought I'd share this with you:

(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i424/kelvis05/P1070038.jpg)

Bought this the other day for $120 (I'm in Tassie) from the local auto paint shop and I must say, for the money, it is awesome! Painted my tank and seat today (only basecoat, pinstripes & clear tomorrow) and I am really impressed with the finish that can be achieved, heaps of adjustability, air pressure, flow rate, pattern size. Give it a shot (pun not intended!)

(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i424/kelvis05/P1070026.jpg)

Cheers kelvis that's really appreciated. I'm definitely going to grab a gun from my local paint store too, for $100 odd you can get something pretty good apparently (and you job looks spot on) so I think it's worth a shot.

It also means I can shoot 2k and access top quality paints like House of Color.

What sort of setup are you running? Keen to see some pics to see if my lot will work ok. Also did you shoot straight primer or a filler primer?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: BCBarker on Nov 04, 2012, 10:07:36
whats with the little dent in the front left?? Filler primer will not fill that!
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 04, 2012, 15:44:42
whats with the little dent in the front left?? Filler primer will not fill that!

No idea, just missed it. Can I put filler on top of epoxy primer or do I have to sand it back to metal?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Nov 04, 2012, 18:39:34
Custom painter friend of mine always primers before filling, epoxy primer sticks better to the steel than filler
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 04, 2012, 19:46:32
Custom painter friend of mine always primers before filling, epoxy primer sticks better to the steel than filler

I took the bodyshop supply places advice on that one. Fingers crossed it doesn't cause any issues. I will put filler straight on top of the primer for that dent then.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Autotek on Nov 04, 2012, 20:46:27
Neevo you can def still fill that little dent. I recommend that you spend the next few days priming and block sanding. You have spent so much time on that tank it will be well worth it. Every layer of primer should be blocked. Get your hands on grey primer and mist the entire tank. When you block it, all of the imperfections will show themselves. If the bad spots are real bad fill them, if they are light continue layers of primer and blocking. Once you think its perfect, do it again.  :) Then use a much finer grit to over the final prep before paint. Are you planning to paint it yourself? If you are, you will be happy you took these steps, if you are not then you can probably ask your painter to give it a once over. Should look great. Cant wait to see the fruit of all this lobor.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 04, 2012, 20:57:04
Thanks Autotek, just the sort of info I'm after!

Can you help me understand how I should be blocking the curved sections? These are not 100% because I struggled to get a perfectly smooth curve. What sort of block is good? Is 180 ok for block sanding?

I will be painting it myself as its cheaper and fits within the ethos of the build... DIY.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Autotek on Nov 04, 2012, 21:04:24
Use a flexable but fairly stiff rubber sanding block. Your paint supplier should have them. They are about 3/16 to 5/16 thick and you can cut it down if you need to. I recommend about a 4x6 inch block. Sand in long strokes front to rear then top to bottom. The stiff rubber should contour to every thing, including to the inverted contours.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Autotek on Nov 04, 2012, 21:07:28
180 is fine but move to 320 or maybe even 400 before paint.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: BCBarker on Nov 04, 2012, 21:43:14
The trace coat is your friend. (High contrast coat of paint on top of primer) it can be cheap paint because you are going to sand it off. I use matte black spray paint over light gray primer.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 04, 2012, 22:32:02
The trace coat is your friend. (High contrast coat of paint on top of primer) it can be cheap paint because you are going to sand it off. I use matte black spray paint over light gray primer.

No probs, I have a can of grey stuff here I might use.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Nov 14, 2012, 07:34:08
Hey bro, you've gone very quiet  :o how's the bodywork coming along? hook us up ;D
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 14, 2012, 07:37:10
Sorry Andy, nothing to report :(

Had to board out the attic last weekend which meant a weekend off the bike, the workshop is appallingly disorganized too!!!

Should have some minor updates after I start on the guide coats and seat too.

No cash this month though as my bike allowance has gone into mousse tubes for the dirtbike.

Got some parts on my Xmas list though so hopefully Santa is good to me this year.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Autotek on Nov 14, 2012, 08:19:02
I was wondering the same. I was beginning to worry ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Nov 14, 2012, 11:54:32
New baby takes precedence  ;)
Bike has to fit around 'real life'  ;D
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Nov 15, 2012, 03:35:25
Sweet, glad it's just a case of life  ;D
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 15, 2012, 04:01:37
Sweet, glad it's just a case of life  ;D

Stupid life!!!

We should be back on track this weekend peeps ;)

The old cashola is a little lacking at the moment so you won't see a huge amount of progress but hopefully can have the tank/seat looking good :D
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: compoundcycles on Nov 16, 2012, 18:59:28
I'm looking forward to seeing more of this build. When does your shock arrive from Hagon?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 17, 2012, 04:39:37
I'm looking forward to seeing more of this build. When does your shock arrive from Hagon?

When I save the cash and order it.

Thinking I might wait for a bit till I've got the bike a little more finished as I will be ordering a specific spring with it too, which will need me to figure out the final weight of the bike.

I need to do it early though as moving the bike without it is a massive pain. Just tried to move it and dropped the rear rim on the concrete floor and dinged the edge a little, very pissed with myself.

So tyres and shock will not be too far away, at least then I can roll it around the shed.

I was going to buy the shock from Hagon but believe it or not its cheaper to buy from David Quinn and have it shipped to Oz. Saves about $100 too, fark knows how that one works!!!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Nov 17, 2012, 12:23:35
Just bolt a strut in there for the moment to hold it up while the shock is on layby.  Simple length of 25mm square tube, hole in each end. Done.  Or 25mmx6mm flat would do .
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 17, 2012, 16:36:57
Just bolt a strut in there for the moment to hold it up while the shock is on layby.  Simple length of 25mm square tube, hole in each end. Done.  Or 25mmx6mm flat would do .

I've already got a shock analogue made out of 40x40 square section. It just means I would have to weld up the shock brace when I wouldn't be 100% sure about all the angles, not having the shock here means I don't know where it would sit under static compression.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 29, 2012, 18:33:37
Just dropping a note in the thread to let everyone know I'm still alive. Not much to report recently. No bike progress however I did make a little bike stand with coasters so I can roll the bike around the shed. Required as I tried to move all 130kg of I the other day and put a scratch on the edge of one of my rims (not happy :()

Looks like I might be having a bike parts filled Christmas as Santa asked what I wanted. Currently the wish list was:

1. Hagon RD350LC shock
2. Tyres
3. LED tail light
4. TTR400 rearsets (hmmmmmm)
5. Classic honda tank decals

Some big tickets items here so I would be happy with anything to be honest, but hopefully it means a bit of inaction turns into some work soon and maybe even... dare I say it... a rolling chassis!!!!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Nov 30, 2012, 02:08:12
Nice  ;D if santa only brings 1  :o

Please be tyres please be tyres please be tyres  ;D

Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 30, 2012, 02:15:07
Nice  ;D if santa only brings 1  :o

Please be tyres please be tyres please be tyres  ;D

Yeah, not wrong :)

Tyres would be great to protect the rims and get it a step closer to being a roller.

Here's a pic of the bike stand too to prove I've been doing something:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/C672606E-E53B-4FD6-90C6-0462E5E1F3F9-12868-000008801E2F1966.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/553969E8-C3C0-4461-A2F8-7F4AC829DA4D-12868-0000088023B11A56.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Nov 30, 2012, 11:11:53
Is that damage on front rim?
Any old tyres to protect them would be good
Tank is looking good
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: DesmoBro on Nov 30, 2012, 15:25:41
quite a ways to go but hell this thing is gonna look and feel the part when your all done....Keep up the good work and tool collecting!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Nov 30, 2012, 18:07:37
hey that's a cheeky pic with plenty done to the tank and no mentioned  ;) looking good  :)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 30, 2012, 18:31:05
Is that damage on front rim?
Any old tyres to protect them would be good

Nah, that's the Sun Rims logo sticker.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Nov 30, 2012, 18:33:28
quite a ways to go but hell this thing is gonna look and feel the part when your all done....Keep up the good work and tool collecting!

Cheers DesmoBro. I hope the end result is as good as I have in my brain. Just need to make sure all the little details are done properly as I want a high quality and thoughtful finish.

hey that's a cheeky pic with plenty done to the tank and no mentioned  ;) looking good  :)

Really? I thought I had detailed the tank? Apologies if I hadn't, this might be the first pic of it mounted on the bike.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Dec 01, 2012, 01:53:32
Do you have an old pair of wheels that you can sling on for the moment.  They don't have to be right.  They just have to fit the axle well enough.  Otherwise tire purchases need to be mode up the critical path.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 01, 2012, 02:45:32
Do you have an old pair of wheels that you can sling on for the moment.  They don't have to be right.  They just have to fit the axle well enough.  Otherwise tire purchases need to be mode up the critical path.

Unfortunately not teazer. I think tyres are my #1 priority.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 07, 2012, 23:16:28
Stinking hot day in Sydney but the visiting mother has taken a trip down to Melbourne for a couple of weeks and the missus has taken the monkey out for the day. Great! Leaves me with some bike time.

Agenda for today? Mock up an electronics/battery tray. First up I am keen to know what I need to include (apart from a battery). I would assume its these:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/26F7EC47-ECAF-4EB2-8E24-6AEFD9495EF6-4104-000002B44DB45EAA.jpg)

Are there smaller/more modern alternatives? The fuse box can be swapped for a blade style one, I assume the beaten up tube thing is a switch for the turn signals (which needs replacing as I'm using led's). What about the regulator and that other thing?

Also made a template for the battery box and tray out if cardboard. I'm using a Ballistic 8 cell eventually so made the box up with those dimensions plus a little bit:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/6D258973-299B-470D-B0E7-34294D99A77C-4104-000002B4B170435A.jpg)

I am using the subframe tray mounts as fixing points as there is plenty of thread left:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/9E9CEA67-15F6-45C0-8222-C6B4CF32ABAC-4104-000002B46426F26E.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/E31BFE47-E86F-44C9-9E52-486009EEF714-4104-000002B45F79D583.jpg)

All gone:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/2EC67BF8-C96E-4291-A1F2-5A937980C919-4104-000002B45A62D70F.jpg)

So I need to know:

1. Have I forgotten any electrical bits?
2. What can I replace for more modern components

Cheers!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Kwality on Dec 08, 2012, 01:44:34
Neevo, there are aftermarket combination regulator/rectifier units for the 400f available from David Silver Spares and Oregon Motorcycle Parts.  Hondaman (sohc4shop.com) also makes up blade-type fusebox units, but you may be inclined to get the bits and knock one up yourself.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 08, 2012, 01:52:59
The thing with the tape is regulator, shows which wires go where
The other thing is rectifier, you'll need both of those ;D
I wouldn't bother to swap them out yet, if you run a 35/35w H4 bulb everything will be fine. When rectifier wire breaks off, then change it
 Get a LED flasher off eBay, you won't find anything cheaper, I think they wqere about $5.00 with free shipping last year (and they work  8) )
 I would swap our fuse block, the original is way past its 'best before' date
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 08, 2012, 03:11:40
Thanks gents! Checked out Dime City and found this:

http://www.dimecitycycles.com/vintage-cafe-racer-caferacer-bobber-brat-chopper-custom-motorcycle-electronics-parts-honda-cb350f-cb400f-cb500-cb550-cb750-rectifier-864218.html

Does this replace both of those units? (The finned thing and box with white green black labels). Happy to get rid of those old items as I want all the electrics looking neat and new too.

I will grab a fuse box and led flasher off eBay too.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 08, 2012, 03:14:17
Is this 3 pin flasher ok?

http://bit.ly/Q5CW1n
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Kwality on Dec 08, 2012, 03:20:27
The reg/rect combo unit looks the biz.  Very similar (if not exactly the same ) as the ones DSS sells.  Similar price too.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 08, 2012, 03:21:55
Cheers Kwality!
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 08, 2012, 03:29:34
Also had a crack at tidying up the replacement head I got from BCBarker (hmmmmmm blue):

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/F592F3EF-93B3-49DD-B407-1E7268142B1D-4314-000002C9BE676C13.jpg)

The plan was to pull the valves, clean them up and generally tidy the thing up and look for any issues.

The valves were disgusting, but some time on the bench grinder fitted with a brass wheel got them back to almost new:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/C15E81E1-147F-4C88-B71F-C1EDB8D92512-4314-000002C9D7A93736.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/3940668B-BCA2-4590-8207-194681CCB827-4314-000002C9DC64C5E2.jpg)

Full valve sets done:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/48A31CF1-6DF9-4DB5-8DE3-1267FFBF3857-4314-000002C9D08A8CFA.jpg)

None of them bind when in the guides so I assume they are all good. Will give them a lap when they go back in for good.

Also cleaned the head with a brass wheel on the drill. Discovered some damage to one of the combustion chambers:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/908F43DE-B504-4D70-86BF-DD46F1B00DF1-4314-000002C9E8F2E72B.jpg)

Is this ok? I was going to have the head decked to make sure the sealing surface was good, just not sure if this is a major problem, if I should clean it up with a stone in the Dremel or simply leave it as it won't be an issue.

Clean head:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/E75995D1-EF87-4888-B3B3-4162EDC4C9A0-4314-000002C9EDB23831.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/D2CA8CF7-33B4-4441-8E7C-60BF74321B90-4314-000002C9F7305D34.jpg)

The messy chamber:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/EA55A48B-F9D3-4EB9-90E3-97680CDECDBE-4314-000002C9FDECCF37.jpg)

Funnily enough this is also the one with the broken sparkplug thread in it too:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/628D2E12-9378-4AC7-9146-5E4CAD6C080E-4314-000002CA0328B11F.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: sinbad85 on Dec 08, 2012, 07:59:42
while its all out you might want to cut the valve seats and grand the valves, or get someone to do it.
it would suck to put it all back together and not have full compression due to a semi dodgy valve seal....
nice job on the valves they were damn dirty before!!!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Eleganten on Dec 08, 2012, 08:47:47
I would have to say that that´s one of the worst combustion chambers I´ve ever seen. It might run but if I where you I would have it welded up and re-machined back to size. The shitty thing is that it´s probably cheaper to buy a new head again.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Dec 08, 2012, 10:30:25
I would have to say that that´s one of the worst combustion chambers I´ve ever seen. It might run but if I where you I would have it welded up and re-machined back to size. The shitty thing is that it´s probably cheaper to buy a new head again.
+1
 Buy the time you clean that up I am afraid it will effect you compression ratio. Plus the combustion chambers all need to be equal in size.  Lots of work for that one but they really are that hard to come by there you may at least try.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 08, 2012, 17:07:52
Ballsack! Not really what I wanted to hear. 2 heads here and both are farked. I will check to see what the damage would be ($$$) in having it fixed before I buy another one with a different problem.

Will have the valve seats recut too Sinbad before it gets put back together for the last time. Stupid not to.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 08, 2012, 18:06:57
LED flasher looks a bit OTT but should do the job pretty well.
 You could run a few LED strips down the sides of bike, underneath and anywhere else you can think of
You can probably use the Honda flasher 'bleeper' with 3 pin  ;D
 DCC reg/rect looks the biz as previously mentioned
As for the head, you know how to tig, just pre-heat it in a sand bath then have it machined
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 08, 2012, 18:11:24
My TIG is a DC unfortunately PJ. I'm going to look at having the chamber welded up though as other than that and the sparkplug broken in the thread its a good head with matching rockers and cam.

Good to hear on the flasher unit, I might look at a more basic one. How do people mount them?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 08, 2012, 19:27:24
Working out how I'm going to run my keyless ignition and I've got questions on the ignition:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/C680EB10-F32C-4430-A7C6-DC7C1C195FFE-5145-00000340E6118FB3.jpg)

1. What is the difference between RUN and PA?
2. I assume the circles and lines are all connected together when in that position? Eg RUN connects the battery to ignition. And TL1 to TL2 and PA

For my keyless ignition I was going to wire up the ignition in the RUN state (assuming that's the right one). I'm keen to have an illuminated button on the triples that cuts the ignition but haven't worked out how that one will work yet.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ridesolo on Dec 08, 2012, 19:47:54
1. What is the difference between RUN and PA?

Neevo, the PA switch selection is a Parking deal they use to have on bikes.  Turn the key all the way to the right to the PA or PARK  selection and you got two things:  1.  The tail light stays on, and 2.  You can take the key out and take it with you. 
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 08, 2012, 20:32:55
Neevo, the PA switch selection is a Parking deal they use to have on bikes.  Turn the key all the way to the right to the PA or PARK  selection and you got two things:  1.  The tail light stays on, and 2.  You can take the key out and take it with you. 

Cheers for that. I thought similar but couldn't work out why it was past the ignition stage.

So taking the OFF and RUN as the 2 ignition stages I want. Looking at the wiring diagram for the ignition block I see TL1 and TL2 are the cluster lights and front/rear lights. IG seems to be a negative feed to everything, do I have that correct?

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/24178591-E603-4495-B0ED-628B822CFBF5-5145-0000034C24EA8C4B.jpg)

So for my keyless ignition all I would have to do is run the relay between the Battery and IG wires.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 09, 2012, 02:34:32
IG is 12V +  (red connects to black then goes to fuse box and comes out brown, B/W, etc)
Green anywhere is - (ground/negative)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Sideswipe on Dec 09, 2012, 06:45:57
Wow yeh that combustion chamber is faaaaaaaaarked.... about to take the head off my CB900 hope I don't see anything like that
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 09, 2012, 07:48:14
Wow yeh that combustion chamber is faaaaaaaaarked.... about to take the head off my CB900 hope I don't see anything like that

Yep it is. Fingers crossed its fixable. I've seen some videos of some great work fixing stuff way worse than this. That's the problem with old bikes... people dont give a monkeys about them and they get abused.

This poor little guy is going to get the full nip tuck and enhancement though. Should be like a brand new bike when its finished.

I will keep my fingers crossed for you. Sideswipe.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 11, 2012, 04:05:57
Soooooooooooo I've been doing some spreadsheet planning. Trying to work out what I've got left to do and how much its going to destroy my wallet. Turns out quite a lot!!!!!

Total build is coming in at about $9k AUD which is a lot for a custom 400F. I've got no issues spending the money as it will be done gradually and it's my hobby too, however I think I'm going a bit overboard by replacing everything on the bike and keen to get some thoughts on areas where I can pull back a bit.

Here are what I consider some optional items I was looking for feedback on. Provide your inputs and it will help me decide.

Acewell Speedo         $368.00     eBay (I could go with the cheaper non analogue tacho version)
Rubber Manfolds?         $43.40        David Silver Spares (mine aren't too bad)
Dyna-S Ignition         $100.00     eBay (could stick to stock points, although cost to renovate could be equal)
466 Oversize Piston Kit (Japan) $140.00     eBay (stick to 400cc saves a fair chunk)
466 Overbore                     $400.00      (no idea on actual cost)
Cam Chain Sliders                     $120.00      David Silver Spares (mine are a little worn)
Cam Chain Tensioner     $100.00      TTR400 (do I need this performance version)
Big End Bearings         $50.00         David Silver Spares (not required but would be good for peace of mind)
Primary Chain         $91.00         David Silver Spares  (how do I tell if mine is past its best)
Cam Chain         $100.00      David Silver Spares  (how do I tell if mine is past its best)
HD Studs (APE)                     $75.00         APE (are these overkill, I have stock ones here)

All this lot totals $1,600 AUD which puts the build into a far more respectable $7k range something I could probably get my money back on. However there is always the peace of mind knowing this stuff is replaced and the bike is essentially brand new.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 11, 2012, 05:29:01
You can use a CB750 'race' camchain with soft link cheaper than the 'genuine' one.
 Just need to shorten it a bit
 TTR tensioner? I'll have to look it up but I don't think it's needed
Primary chain?
 Probably (I would change it)
 If stock studs have zero damage from removal, there is nothing wrong with them for 466 kit (I think I mentioned the highly abused 490 I built?)
 If bearings are OK, I don't change them, the oil film is what 'protects' them (and I know you have a good oil pump)

 Just looked it up.
Looks pretty but you don't need it.
 They seize because chain doesn't get adjusted and chews up the pivot so it can't rotate.
TTR say same thing, won't seize if you adjust chain (and will seize if you don't )
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 11, 2012, 05:51:45
Cheers PJ. I think big end bearings are ok (no scuff marks), so will probably leave them. A few crank bearings have scuffs so I may replace them selectively.

The cam chain tensioner horseshoe is stuffed so hopefully I can get a non damaged one from somewhere. An aftermarket one is always a fallback option.

466 kit is a high priority so may not skimp on that one.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 11, 2012, 05:52:30
Dammit I want it all!!!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ronnie on Dec 11, 2012, 08:01:40
My machine work for the 466 was a little over 200us.. If I remember correctly. I go the new cam chain and tensioner just because. I didn't get the guides because 1. They're ridiculously priced and 2. Mine weren't in bad shape. Plus if you keep your chain properly tightened they shouldn't get used too much. I didn't replace my primary because it didn't have much play in it and my bike only had 14k on it.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ronnie on Dec 11, 2012, 08:05:25
As for bearings,  my dad told me if you have it taken down that far and you have the money to do it, replace the bearings. It was a little over 200 for all of them (crank and rod)  I got new oil seals for everything from David silver spares to, plus a new oil sensor. (too cheap not to get, 5 bucks or something. Got the oem not the genuine) though it's been so long since I have worked on my engine, it's going to be tough figuring out what seal goes where..

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Kwality on Dec 11, 2012, 08:07:09
+1  all the above could be omitted, but since you're keen on the 466 then you will have to factor in machining.  It ought not cost you $400 though - I had my 400 rebored at $60 per pot at peak outrageous Perth boom-town prices.  My tensioner was seized, but I carefully filed the burs off and got it moving freely.  No issue since.  So long as you pay regurlar attention to the camchain tightness then you wont have a recurring problem there.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: BCBarker on Dec 11, 2012, 09:35:48
I think I still have the Cam Chain Tensioner from that motor. It's yours for shipping if it's not damaged. I'll look for it today and take a few pics/make sure the pivot isn't seized.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 11, 2012, 13:20:58
Changing shell bearings just because you have motor down is an automotive practice and rarely necessary (if they are damaged the crank usually needs a re-grind or replacing)
Oil pumps are nother thing thay car mechanics change 'just because'(usually because they dont have equipment or ability to check specifications)
 I've had to dismantle several tensioners on 400's to file off burrs, never had any issues with them if servicing is done

Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 11, 2012, 17:03:10
I think I still have the Cam Chain Tensioner from that motor. It's yours for shipping if it's not damaged. I'll look for it today and take a few pics/make sure the pivot isn't seized.

Thanks Brian. Let me know what it looks like, might take you up on that of I can't find a decent one.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 12, 2012, 01:03:30
Quick update from my visit to a local performance/head reconditioning shop. Good news, bad news and potentially a silver lining.

Good news: The head is repairable, simple as welding it up and re cutting the valve seats.
Bad news: Probably going to cost between $500 - $600

So here is where the silver lining plays out. Currently I have 2 heads.

Head 1: Buggered cam journal and damaged cam which means the matching rockers are useless
Head 2: Buggered cumbustion chamber and sparkplug thread but good cam and matching valve train.

My idea: Swap the top and bottom of each!

This would leave me with a good top half (with no damage to the cam journal), a good cam with matching rockers and valves. The bottom half would have great condition combustion chambers and sparkplug threads. The only part to be fixed would be the lower half on the cam journal which would probably cost about the same as a new head ($200 - $300).

Are there any issues with my plan?

1. Are there problems putting different valves into the guides?
2. I assume the cams are interchangeable

Anything else I am missing?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 12, 2012, 01:12:37
Shouldn't be any problems, the head and rocker box are not machined as a pair (unlike the crankcases)
 I would check clearances though

Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 12, 2012, 01:39:45
Shouldn't be any problems, the head and rocker box are not machined as a pair (unlike the crankcases)
 I would check clearances though

As in the cam clearance on the journals (eg with a plastigauge)?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 12, 2012, 05:31:53
Question everyone. What is the standard OD of the 400F's headers. My set here is 1.25" into 2" (4-1) but not sure how that compares to stock.

I'm looking to buy some parts from Meg's to build my headers and want to get the dimensions right as its not a straight up build. Keen to aid performance without going to big and causing issues. The build is going to be:

1. Headers into 4-1 collector
2. 4-1 collector into 2-1 collector (reversed)
3. 2-1 collector into 2 outputs

I can go 1.25" header or 1.5"

I was going to go with:

4-1 (1.5" into 2")
1-2 (2" into 1.5")

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 12, 2012, 13:52:21
1.5" is way too big, even 1.25" is a bit much but any smaller looks too small.
I think you need closer to 1", that would give you around 7/8" inside diameter.
Even with a 466 kit it's only ~116cc per cylinder.
 I would build a step pipe, 1" for first 3"~ 4" out of head, 1.25" for first bend into down pipe, 1.375" about halfway down front to collector then 1.5" from collector to silencer
 If you want an expansion box, use 2.50" about 3"~4" long then make a 1:2 stepping down to 1.5 or smaller
You'll have to work out the lengths, they will probably need shortening around 6%~10% from 'theoretical correct'
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Sonreir on Dec 12, 2012, 13:59:55
Question everyone. What is the standard OD of the 400F's headers. My set here is 1.25" into 2" (4-1) but not sure how that compares to stock.

I'm looking to buy some parts from Meg's to build my headers and want to get the dimensions right as its not a straight up build. Keen to aid performance without going to big and causing issues. The build is going to be:

1. Headers into 4-1 collector
2. 4-1 collector into 2-1 collector (reversed)
3. 2-1 collector into 2 outputs

I can go 1.25" header or 1.5"

I was going to go with:

4-1 (1.5" into 2")
1-2 (2" into 1.5")

Thoughts?

http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=39814.msg471764#msg471764
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 12, 2012, 18:11:32
http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=39814.msg471764#msg471764

Jesus Christ!!!!! I've got some homework to do.

Thanks for that, I had a read through but will need to digest it over a longer time with a calculator and notepad.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Sonreir on Dec 12, 2012, 18:14:22
You get out what you put in, mate.  :D

Let us know if you have any specific questions.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 12, 2012, 19:20:37
You get out what you put in, mate.  :D

Let us know if you have any specific questions.

I have one about my 4-1, 1-2, twin mufflers. Is that going to cause issues? I'm sure I've seen it on some bikes.

Reason for doing it is to get the twin mufflers (like a Ducati Monster) primarily but also using the single merge to reduce the need for tuning. Would I be able to count the output from the merge as double of 1 side?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Dec 12, 2012, 21:35:02
Yes and no.  twin pipes of the same combined cross sectional area do not flow as well as a single pipe because of the higher surface area and drag.  But at what revs and where exactly is that an issue.

You want 4:1 merge collector with a suitable transition (expands to give that critical flow pattern at the orifice discharge).  After that, you could split the pipe into two with slightly larger combined area and push it through two mufflers for twice the muffling volume.

Stock pipes used to be double skinned, so you may be surprised to find how small a stock pipe ID was.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 13, 2012, 05:50:23
You get out what you put in, mate.  :D

Let us know if you have any specific questions.

So I put in a glass of white wine and sat here with my laptop and an Excel file, working on the exhaust calculations. All went well but I had to make some assumptions and I had 1 issue which was resolved after using an online ft/in cubed converter.

Assumptions were:

1. CB400F cylinder has 2 pulses per revolution
2. No idea what the exhaust port timing is so I just used your calcuations for the moment

I was getting an error when I converted the cubic feet back into cubic inches. The 144 conversion I was using didn't match up and made a diameter of about 2 inches. Used an online converter instead which gave a different number and made the header diameter much more in line with what I thought.

Sonreir would you mind seeing if I have this right? I would assume so as I came out with the following numbers, however for the primary length I neither know the degrees the exhaust opens and I guessed my 400F has a peak RPM of 11,000 also. Here's what I came up with:

Primary Diameter: 1.29"
Primary Length: 15.08" (same as yours as I just used your numbers)
Tailpipe Diameter: 1.44"

Calculations are in the attached (did it in Excel but can only load up .pdf)

Edit: just checked the manual and it looks like the angle for exhaust valve opening is 35•, doesn't change the header length as its less than 15"

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/39772979-F9AE-40E5-87F4-2C4D6DE222EA-1083-000000920332B191.jpg)

It looks like the exhausts I want to use from Danmoto are 1.5" inlet diameter. Sounds great but I want to use 2. What effects will this have on the bike, is too free flowing exhaust going to cause seriously negative consequences as I doubt I can get seriously smaller given the diameter is fixed.

Definitely want twin exhausts though ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 13, 2012, 08:25:11
Each cylinder fires every other revolution and has 180 degree crank.Firing order should be in the manual,, I think it's 1342 or1243? Been up all night, can't sleep again or think straight  ::)
At 10,000 rpm you would have 5,000 firing strokes per cyl so your dealing with 20,000 exhaust pulses per min at max rev
 
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 13, 2012, 17:35:07
At 10,000 rpm you would have 5,000 firing strokes per cyl so your dealing with 20,000 exhaust pulses per min at max rev

Cheers PJ! That makes my exhaust calculations incorrect.

Just reworked them and it has required tailpipe diameter at 2.03", this is good as the 4-1 will go into 2" and the twin 1.5" outlets have a slightly larger area than is required (3.25 sq in vs 3.53 sq in on the twin exhausts).

Sounds like I'm pretty close with the setup I want:

A. 4-1 header (1.25" into 2")
B. 1-2 collector (2" into 1.5")
C. Twin exhaust outlets (1.5")
D. Twin Danmoto mufflers (1.5" inlet, 1.88" core)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 13, 2012, 17:44:09
You'll normally be operating in the 6~8,000 rpm range on the street (or lower) which will mean longer pipes
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 13, 2012, 17:48:00
Longer equals lower torque right?

I'm aiming for about 4-5 feet total length but need to see where the mufflers go first. Aiming for them to be out at axel length but raised like a Ducati Monster. Should help with torque curve vs mega shorties.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Dec 13, 2012, 17:51:25
Not exactly.  That 35 degrees BBDC is measured at 1mm for checking purposes.  The valve will start to lift at more like 60-65 degrees BBDC.  BTW the old race kit "811" cam for a CB72 had a 40 degree exhaust opening on specs at least.

I plugged  your numbers or at least my interpretation of them into an on line calculator and using cylinder volume it suggested a 1" tailpipe and using 4 times that gas flow to allow for the expanded hot exhaust gases, it came out to 2" diameter.

But let's put all the theory off to one side for a moment.  If 1.5" inlet works on a modern 4 cylinder larger capacity motor, it should be fine (if slightly large) for a CB400F with the quiet street baffle insert in place.  Keep it simple and stick to one muffler - makes everything easier. (and cheaper)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 13, 2012, 19:36:58
Maybe it's semantics but longer pipe won't mean lower torque just produces max at lower rpm
Valve doesn't flow much at lower than 1mm lift, unless you do some mods, even then it's only 5% or so (just isn't enough time at 10k)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 13, 2012, 23:15:15
Maybe it's semantics but longer pipe won't mean lower torque just produces max at lower rpm
Valve doesn't flow much at lower than 1mm lift, unless you do some mods, even then it's only 5% or so (just isn't enough time at 10k)

Sorry mate that's what I meant, lowers torque curve a bit.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ronnie on Dec 14, 2012, 02:12:52
I have a question concerning exhaust, I have similar engine. Can you do a 180 degree turn (if not two) in an exhaust pipe? Or is this terrible for flow? As in making a tight S turn under the engine and frame in order to get longer pipes without putting the muffler out near the wheel? Like a underslung muffler.. (think Buell exhaust)

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 14, 2012, 02:19:26
Bought some metal today from my local Metaland. Much cheaper than buying offcuts from a local fab shop however the drawback is the amount you buy, think I should get a few electrics trays/battery boxes out of this (about 400 I think ;):

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/21DC6F67-E25C-4307-83AF-38CC30343F9C-2048-00000131D65918F6.jpg)

Also bought the tube for my swingarm brace (1" for the brace and 22.2mm for the uprights, all 2mm for extra strength) and some Alu flat for my exhaust hangers.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 14, 2012, 04:43:47
Sounds like I'm pretty close with the setup I want:

A. 4-1 header (1.25" into 2")
B. 1-2 collector (2" into 1.5")
C. Twin exhaust outlets (1.5")
D. Twin Danmoto mufflers (1.5" inlet, 1.88" core)

So another change, forced by the collectors available from Meg's (coneeng.com). Turns out the only way to match a 4-1 with a 1-2 that has an exit OD of 1.5" is to use a header dimension of 1.375" (ideal was 1.29").

This ringing any alarm bells?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 14, 2012, 14:21:08
Make a collector the sizes you want, isn't really a major PITA
You've shown you can 'bash tin' with the seat
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 14, 2012, 22:59:02
Battery box today. First cut some sheet, scored it with the angle grinder and welded up the corner:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/A9FF6F42-3F54-4BCD-BCEF-7DB51CA844A2-770-00000057992E0D3B.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/6BFEE0F5-1007-47BF-9ACC-9E684B8E9FB6-770-000000579F2F4778.jpg)

Next up I test fitted the base plate:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/5CF79ADA-9A28-439E-82B9-25EEE43884A3-770-00000057A44A156F.jpg)

Then welded them together, not happy with the job as I had to put too much heat into it and made a mess of the base plate:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/09336469-3525-4B04-9A1F-86D78CC69D1E-770-00000057A9749CE8.jpg)

I was toying with the idea of redoing it and fate forced my hand when I fitted it up with the seat, I had snuck a few mm on the positioning of the battery box and it fouled the seat hump. Oh well, I will have another go. Here it is in its draft format:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/FF7DAE12-595F-4553-B200-50001D70D4D7-770-00000057AFF0F89B.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 15, 2012, 01:57:09
You need to get rear tyre on, remove the bar you have in place of shock and 'guesstimate' shock travel/wheel position
Then drop battery box through plate slightly to get 1/2" or so clearance at max 'bump'
 As for collector, I did a development on sheet of card for the 360, it's easy to draw couple of circles the length apart you want then divide
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k315/1crazypj/Honda%20CB360/Collector3.jpg)

(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k315/1crazypj/Honda%20CB360/Collector2.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 15, 2012, 02:01:02
You need to get rear tyre on, remove the bar you have in place of shock and 'guesstimate' shock travel/wheel position
Then drop battery box through plate slightly to get 1/2" or so clearance at max 'bump'

PJ it shouldn't make any difference as I've got a subframe tray under the whole seat area that the tyre would hit first. I've lifted the whole subframe up about 1" to 1.5" which means the tyre shouldn't hit anywhere near the fame rails now.

Battery box has been redone and its worked out nicely, need to get a battery in there to really see what the clearance is like.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ducatiboy on Dec 15, 2012, 16:08:09
Thats a pretty big battery box. Can't you just cut that one down a little so it doesn't foul the seat hump and use smaller battery?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 15, 2012, 17:08:47
Thats a pretty big battery box. Can't you just cut that one down a little so it doesn't foul the seat hump and use smaller battery?

It's based on the dimensions of the Ballistic Evo2 8 Cell (114mm x 62mm x 112mm) with a little extra for some foam padding. I'm getting rid of the kickstart lever so need something with some "kick".
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 15, 2012, 21:33:59
So the welding on my battery box was eating away at me, it was shithouse to be honest:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/1F2AEFA8-E6FB-4EC8-B42D-CCB51DF6F3FD-1673-000000E3E0671249.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/C52CCF62-4AC5-406F-9057-770890BBB0CA-1673-000000E3E59F76EF.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/EED4ABD7-A63C-43F3-BE54-3D60C97E1739-1673-000000E3EA29FB11.jpg)

So I cut the box off and made a new one with tabs to weld it onto the base plate:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/4B4DAF68-3619-4E71-86B2-66E895C0E8CE-1673-000000E3F2286936.jpg)

Much better:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/119546F8-4147-4CED-B41E-0FCA3047ABFF-1673-000000E3F9D7E829.jpg)

In the bike:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0E61676B-D999-4460-A454-9F6BFB7FFCE0-1673-000000E3FE34177E.jpg)

Next up I thought I would tear into the carbs, stripping them right back ready for vapour blasting and putting new jets etc in:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/AB7D1E15-F150-4F30-96AD-B3C5D61C6993-1673-000000E405D16399.jpg)

I stripped them completely except for the needle jet (I think that's what its called; the one the needle slides into). Is that able to be pressed out? I assume I will need new ones for the 400F especially with a 466 kit in it (these ones were off a 350F). Also how should I prep them for cleaning?

Should I get them into a ultrasonic bath and then tape up the openings for blasting?

I put the bodies back together for blasting which i thought would work:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/8A70A49E-0D95-42A1-A3C0-B8516698E82B-1673-000000E40AE2848A.jpg)

Along with the rack:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0A82180D-3ED1-4442-82BE-A9A95E9BCEFE-1673-000000E40F74A03B.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: SONIC. on Dec 15, 2012, 22:56:43
I just soda blasted my 400f carbs,
Removed everything and blasted inside and out. (I did this after a good strong carb dip)

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h298/jbrady2/149FAFC9-4586-4D11-86E0-52A5DD7F0152-23219-0000048FB7242C48.jpg)

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h298/jbrady2/5BF150E1-DFBE-4F5C-A8BD-6CE0509BE38E-23219-0000048FAE08CDEA.jpg)

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h298/jbrady2/38CF1AEB-C9D0-41C7-938D-405AC4F0D7B9-23219-0000048FA7CF5458.jpg)

And baking soda is soluble, so after you're done blasting you just soak them in water and all the passages clear out. A little compressed air helps too.

Your battery box looks good.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 16, 2012, 00:04:05
What a coincidence! I was reading through some carb posts trying to find info on jetting and the various needles and stumbled across your post. So before you wrote this I was already out there with the soda blaster making a massive mess ;)

Turned out nice:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/B26DC2E6-CC6E-40CF-87D0-E9FDF5AFF4A4-1868-000000FEA7C4AB04.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/4359D633-8D9D-4180-95DB-455CBCDBF49F-1868-000000FEAD55C84F.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/784805B4-AF16-47AF-A597-06C945EEAB7A-1868-000000FEB1B78C0A.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/FEDA07E4-7633-42EC-8D26-41DA0E4A35C6-1868-000000FEB667FE43.jpg)

What did you do with the tops/bottoms. They are clean but have corrosion marks that the soda blaster didn't remove.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 16, 2012, 00:26:33
If you have bodies completely stripped, it's a good idea to soak them in warm water to make sure all the soda gets dissolved out.
 I've had a few sets sent formodification, dust gets in everywhere them normal water vapor in the air starts corrosion
 I heard that on steel soda forms a protective layer, I guess zinc die cast carb bodies are completely different?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 16, 2012, 00:30:35
PJ I will soak them too, just water or should I dump them is a bath of mineral turps (or some other nasty chemical)?

Also with rebuilding them what should I keep and what should get replaced (considering I'm going to 466 kit and probably pods over stacks). Currently these bits are out of the carbs:

1. Needle
2. Pilot jet
3. Main jet
4. Float and float valve

I've not taken the needle jet out yet as it looks pressed in and I didn't want to damage it.

Also do you have some guidance on the jets I should buy?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 16, 2012, 00:38:54
Just use warm water
I fill sink up and let them sit, blow out and use hot airgun to dry them off
I have a piece of 1/4" dia 6061 turned down to fit needle jet on 350/360 carbs, sometimes they slide out easy other times they need some 'persuasion'  ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Dec 16, 2012, 00:59:11
PJ, That's way too sophisticated.  So many Hondas use versions of the same needle jet and they all come out easily with a suitable drift.

For those of us that have neither access to a lathe or PJ's experience, there is a low cost non-destructive alternative - chopsticks.  Not good ones.  Just the small cheap soft disposable types. :-)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 16, 2012, 01:03:04
You haven't seen some of the carbs I've been sent for modifications  ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Dec 16, 2012, 01:03:30
Good point.....
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 16, 2012, 01:07:04
For those of us that have neither access to a lathe or PJ's experience, there is a low cost non-destructive alternative - chopsticks.  Not good ones.  Just the small cheap soft disposable types. :-)

For driving out the needle jet?

Do I need to replace the needle/needle jet? Also I assume if the float valve has a groove in the taper then I need new ones?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 16, 2012, 01:21:17
Done a bit of reading and looking like I might try the following with the 466 kit and free flowing exhaust:

38 pilot
85 or 90 mains

I don't see needles/ needle jets mentioned anywhere, what's your option on those PJ?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 16, 2012, 01:35:41
Start with stock positions.
 I thought the 466 needed a 102 main? (I used 105'sin the 490)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 16, 2012, 01:37:04
Start with stock positions.
 I thought the 466 needed a 102 main? (I used 105'sin the 490)

Unfortunately I don't have stock as the carbs were from a 350F.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 16, 2012, 01:39:27
350 needle and needle jet should be OK.
Use middle groove and adjust from there if you need to
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 16, 2012, 01:44:43
In the 350F carbs I have is:

35 pilot
92 main
18234 needle (middle clip)

Haven't pulled the needle jets yet (probably won't at this stage). Just checked the brass float needles and whilst there are marks there isn't anything I can feel with my fingernail.

So will try:

38 pilot
102 mains

Cheers PJ!
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 16, 2012, 02:35:55
Just on jetsrus.com trying to identify the pilot and mains (in the sofa with the calipers) and not having much luck :(

Pilot is:
28mm length
5.5mm main body
3.4 thread
2mm tip

This matches nothing they have on the list of pilots.

The main doesn't match any of their pics either. Anyone know what the type of mains/pilots the 400F takes?

Edit: found them, google took me straight to a page for the 400F that I couldn't find from the main page.

Pilot: 99124-076
Mains: secondary mains 9.6mm x 6mm (no part number)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 16, 2012, 06:14:19
I though 350 had same 'push in' jets as 550, 500, etc?
I'll have to open up mine and take a look
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 16, 2012, 06:16:23
I though 350 had same 'push in' jets as 550, 500, etc?
I'll have to open up mine and take a look

Dunno mate! Never seen the other carbs.

The main jet is press in and the pilot (slow) is screw in.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 16, 2012, 06:20:33
OK, they are the long screw in, I know the ones.
 They are also used on the 2000~2004 CR250 plus gazzillion other Kei-Hin carbs
 When you said primary I was thinking of 3 jet carbs (which350/400doesn't have)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 16, 2012, 06:22:56
OK, they are the long screw in, I know the ones.
 They are also used on the 2000~2004 CR250 plus gazzillion other Kei-Hin carbs
 When you said primary I was thinking of 3 jet carbs (which350/400doesn't have)

I called them pilots, is that what did it? Looking online looks like there are slow and main jets. Then the needle.

Jetting is bloody confusing! Looks like 466 kit users are all over the board. 38
- 40 slows and anywhere from 80 - 100 mains. Arrrrrrrrgh.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 16, 2012, 06:27:55
I've been up all night again, back playing up (surprisingly it's much worse laying down?)
Only reading every other word or so.  ::)
 Guess I should read properly before replying  ;D
 Use a x10 loupe for checking parts (get cheap et from Aussie version of Harbor Freight)
 
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 16, 2012, 06:29:42
Sorry to hear that bud! Thought it had calmed down in recent months. Got any drugs?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 16, 2012, 06:42:28
Doc told me I shouldn't be self-dosing with the various meds, does nasty things (like destroys liver and kidneys)
I'm finding out a lot more than I ever wanted to know about what you can take and what you can't with over the counter pills.
Really surprising, 10 grains aspirin and 1000mg paracetamol (together) is working almost as well as Naproxen or Etodolac, I've probably built a tolerance to them? (not as good as hydrocodone/paracetamol mix though)
 I feel a lot better when I take everything together,  there's no pain for 5~6 hrs, I try not to take the concoctions more than twice a day (double what the directions say for a 24 hr period)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 16, 2012, 07:03:52
Sounds like you've got a smart approach. Thin line between fucking yourself up on meds or going mad through pain.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: SONIC. on Dec 16, 2012, 11:43:37
Neevo,
My bowls and caps look crappy too, so mine are getting a coat of Eastwood ceramic high temp engine paint.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 16, 2012, 16:58:12
Neevo,
My bowls and caps look crappy too, so mine are getting a coat of Eastwood ceramic high temp engine paint.

Yeah I saw in your thread that they needed some extra attention. I'm probably just going to give mine a quick polish.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: SONIC. on Dec 16, 2012, 16:59:53
I would but I don't have a buffer! I guess I could use the die grinder......hmmmm
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 16, 2012, 17:03:33
I'd prefer not to as I'm not mega keen on the look, but understand why many do it now as they still look crappy after cleaning them up.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: SONIC. on Dec 16, 2012, 17:10:12
Yup. I'm going to try paint, even though its failed me in the past. This new paint seems to be holding up pretty well to gas in my tests. I don't particularly care for highly polished stuff.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 17, 2012, 05:05:42
Question peeps! Just about to push the button on some carb parts (Keihin genuine jets, slow and mains) and genuine Honda gasket kits (bowl gasket, top gasket and o-rings). That would nearly have the carbs 100%... except!!!

1. I still need to find the interconnecting rubber tubes for what I assume are the vent tubes. Any ideas where to look?
2. I'm missing 2 of the metal pucks that help to align the carbs (assuming I should have more than 1). Where can I get these too?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 17, 2012, 05:26:36
Found some 2mm viton rubber tubing on eBay I reckon should work for #1:

http://bit.ly/UWsggE

Its quite thick though at 5mm OD. That's way thicker than stock, will this cause any issues?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 17, 2012, 07:48:48
Not sure what you mean about pucks for aligning carbs, I'll need a picture and post later, I'm off to bed, it's 6:48am
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: BCBarker on Dec 17, 2012, 08:44:55
Those mettal pucks are total PAINS to keep track of.... seems like you should be able to make some though... only 6mm posts.. x 10mm long-ish. or so. Chuck up a little aluminum in a drill press and turn some! dug out the tensioner yesterday. I'll post pics in a few.

Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Daedalus on Dec 17, 2012, 10:02:37
for hose you could try pirtek or enzed, they should have something similar to the stock size.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: BCBarker on Dec 17, 2012, 15:50:22
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-yenzybbTY1I/UM90GcmKegI/AAAAAAAAB9A/4DMnuaEwMiM/s800/IMG_2186.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ZHjTZkrtb2Q/UM90Ew-SsFI/AAAAAAAAB9I/MhMGVzM9ENE/s800/IMG_2187.jpg)

Seems to move freely.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 17, 2012, 15:54:52
When the chain is loose it carves into pivot nd causes a burr.
I've spent many 'happy hours' pushing the pins out and fixing them  ::)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: BCBarker on Dec 17, 2012, 16:03:02
hope those happy hours were with a drink too!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 17, 2012, 16:28:30
Unfortunately not  >:( ;D
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 17, 2012, 18:01:08
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-yenzybbTY1I/UM90GcmKegI/AAAAAAAAB9A/4DMnuaEwMiM/s800/IMG_2186.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ZHjTZkrtb2Q/UM90Ew-SsFI/AAAAAAAAB9I/MhMGVzM9ENE/s800/IMG_2187.jpg)

Seems to move freely.

Brian do you have a pic of the pin front on? I'll take it I think if that's ok with you. Just let me know what I owe you.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: BCBarker on Dec 17, 2012, 18:04:33
I'll snap a pic when I get back. Cost of shipping. If you want to do a flat rate box I'll stuff it with the primary chain and any other bits I have from that motor. It's 17.00 for the small flat rate box.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 17, 2012, 18:07:25
I'll snap a pic when I get back. Cost of shipping. If you want to do a flat rate box I'll stuff it with the primary chain and any other bits I have from that motor. It's 17.00 for the small flat rate box.

Cheers Brian, done! Can you PM me your Paypal address again and I will zip the money over now.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 18, 2012, 05:46:53
Looking for carb vent connecting hose and found some silicone rubber tube. Is that a problem for a carb vent hose?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: BCBarker on Dec 18, 2012, 07:22:02
Some silicone holds up to fuel, some doesn't... But if its only venting and not in direct contact with liquid then you may be fine.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: maduncle on Dec 21, 2012, 05:48:00

Whoah,

Well - reading this thread from page one to page 106 took three sessions over about two hours all up...

... and gods it was worth it.

Neevo you are doing an amazing job, full props to you. I have learnt so much reading this thread and my WTF450 will be a better, smarter and safer build thanks to you.

And if you are still after an Acewell speedo - I have a spare one in my shed. Speedo only - no other bits.

Cheers,

Cliff
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 21, 2012, 07:33:01
Whoah,

Well - reading this thread from page one to page 106 took three sessions over about two hours all up...

... and gods it was worth it.

Neevo you are doing an amazing job, full props to you. I have learnt so much reading this thread and my WTF450 will be a better, smarter and safer build thanks to you.

And if you are still after an Acewell speedo - I have a spare one in my shed. Speedo only - no other bits.

Cheers,

Cliff

Mate, that's really appreciated however I have to say my bike has been the product of the advice I've gotten off this site. Some smart cookies in here and they are all instrumental in getting me to where I am today.

Fingers crossed Santa gives me some goodies to get it a bit further along too :D

What Acewell do you have? Not the one with the analogue tach needle?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: maduncle on Dec 21, 2012, 16:42:48


What Acewell do you have? Not the one with the analogue tach needle?

Dunno.

I got this one off a mate here in Melbourne, and mounted it into a Bultaco headlamp for my cafe racer

(http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr310/maduncle/a18b54e6.jpg)

Then I got an original CB450K0 headlamp bucket with gauges - so the Acewell is on the shelf until I (or someone else) has a need for it.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 21, 2012, 18:09:26
I'll keep it in mind, but I'm mega keen for the version with the analogue tacho.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: pandknz on Dec 21, 2012, 19:29:29
Neevo, that analogue one looks good, where can you get them from in AU?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 21, 2012, 19:49:31
Neevo, that analogue one looks good, where can you get them from in AU?

eBay is a great source as they are the cheapest too. About $370 delivered:

http://bit.ly/RJNeEY

This is from S3 Performance in VIC.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: johnd900 on Dec 24, 2012, 05:30:06
Great thread!  Up to page 32 and a long way to go!  Inspiring...
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 25, 2012, 05:42:26
Great thread!  Up to page 32 and a long way to go!  Inspiring...

Thanks John, good to hear you're enjoying it. Not sure I would say inspiring ;) but thanks for giving me a big head :D

Updates from Christmas Day. Missus and all my family were mega generous this year.

First up some killer boots :D, was worried about how fat the 120 would look but its looking pretty meaty:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/14DA77DF-598E-4EB6-8857-DB3AE4ED4FCC-257-00000027D08DA677.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/E13EAD48-63AF-407D-93DC-C0652C5BB5DB-257-00000027D633C1C7.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/7EAC031D-E5AC-4A71-A65C-3BB33556EF01-257-00000027DBA8AD9E.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/E6A21B49-04FE-4AD8-B5A3-6E4C1DD80BF4-257-00000027E1177E50.jpg)

Will be tarting them up with some white lettering at some stage too ;)

I was going to get them mounted at my local bike shop but not sure if its necessary. Can anyone help? I can easily mount tyres just not sure if I need to balance them first or if its not done with motorbikes. Either way any weights would have to be mounted inside the rim as I don't want them on the spokes.

Second up is my custom dynamics LED taillight:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/22531C18-D8AD-4B89-9041-1FA298A77604-257-00000027E5C454EC.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/91F949AB-1E53-4E84-9AC2-84254D07FD4B-257-00000027EA5EBD33.jpg)

This is going to look sweet on the rear.

Another addition was my RFID kit for my keyless ignition:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/E0DAABD0-55BA-45FE-8AD3-5094F1E75F93-257-00000027EEECC4FB.jpg)

Very excited about puting this together, just a relay to get to finish it off.

The one bit that didn't make it in time was my TTR400 weld on rearsets. Veeeeeery excited to get them as they are a work of art. Pics will absolutely follow when they arrive!!!!!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 25, 2012, 12:36:43
Check tyres for a balance mark, that will go next to valve.
You can't check balance until tyres are fitted so weights have to be external (if you even need them)
Fitting isn't difficult, I would have had tyres on wheels by now  ;D
Do you have real tyre levers? (don't use screwdrivers, spoons from kitchen, etc, that's what screws rims up)
If your careful you could even use nylon bicycle ones, it's a matter of persuasion not brute force
Check for direction of rotation before you start, sucks to fit them backwards.
 Rims have whats called a 'drop center, you fit tyre bead down by spoke heads one side so you can coax opposite side onto rim
 There are various 'how to's' posted all over
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 25, 2012, 17:32:44
Thanks PJ, will pop them on over today/tomorrow then.

I have a dirtbike with mousse tubes so getting tyres on is something I've done hundreds of times, got about 6 monster levers to help with the job.

Will double check for the tyre weight to get it opposite valve. Couple more questions.

1. The rear wheel spokes need grinding down as they are a fraction too long. How best to achieve this?
2. Any suggestions for rim tape to cover the spokes (eg electrical tape)?
3. I don't want to scratch my rims with the levers, any suggestions for protection? I thought cut up garden hose but it's probably too thick
4. No idea what pressure to run them at, where would I find that?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Autotek on Dec 25, 2012, 17:43:41
Glad to see your still moving along. I recently moved and had no internet for over a week then holidays, but Im back and playing catch up. Ill keep checking in Neevo.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 25, 2012, 19:21:45
Glad to see your still moving along. I recently moved and had no internet for over a week then holidays, but Im back and playing catch up. Ill keep checking in Neevo.

That's dangerous Autotek, this thread has a habit of getting a run on in a few days. Glad to hear people are enjoying the journey, I love a meaty build thread so will continue to try to keep it on track ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 25, 2012, 19:58:31
I use a 4-1/2"angle grinder with grinding wheel to 'shorten' spokes.
It doesn't matter if you go into nipples slightly.
Rubber rim strips are probably best but duct tape is OK, tear it into 1" wide strips, need about 3 layers.
You can also wrap 2 layers of duct tape around edge of rim, it will 'fold' into place pretty well (just make sure it's offset to the outside)
You only need to do 1 side (as you only put tyre on from one side  ;) )
Not sure about rear tyre but I run 90/90 front between 28~32psi, rear should be OK 32~36pis

Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 26, 2012, 06:17:47
Santa was very kind again today, delivering a GSXR front fender, relay for my keyless ignition and gorgeous tank stickers.

Front fender:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/60460306-9239-4AE1-AB67-55970C52EB92-683-000000D398FD8994.jpg)

I'm not 100% sure about it which is disappointing but hoping it will be better after a coat of paint. Happy to sell it and try something else if its not working though.

Relay (keyless ignition is now complete :D):

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/451E8D42-ACCA-471B-B303-9F0154EB8F78-683-000000D3A39E176B.jpg)

Tank stickers:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/81063D55-BC0B-40CA-8A01-8047E28F82B7-683-000000D39EB69FB0.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 26, 2012, 11:21:25
You could cut it to a better shape, or, I saw a Ducati that used stainless steel hoops/braces bolted in stock positions and a conventional mudguard fitted
Don't remember the model but it looked 'factory' so you should be able to find some pics?

 This isn't the one I was thinking of but you can get the idea (this is a Paul Smart Replica, I've 'chased' it up to 95  ;D )
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k315/1crazypj/Cafe-Moto4.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 26, 2012, 19:18:08
Ok I get it, that's very nicely done.

I think it looks a bit goofy at the moment because I don't have the tyre on yet and it's bright white. I will get the rubber on, paint it black in photoshop and see if that helps. If not will look at other options.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Dec 26, 2012, 20:57:33
 :o did Santa bring bike booties too  :o  :D on a side note have you given thought to a name for your creation ? your title is become much less "idiot" and much more "mad genius"  ;D ;D ;D ...andy...
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 26, 2012, 21:21:55
:o did Santa bring bike booties too  :o  :D on a side note have you given thought to a name for your creation ? your title is become much less "idiot" and much more "mad genius"  ;D ;D ;D ...andy...

Yeh he did :D

Just need to get away from the family for an hour to fit them.

Not sure about "mad genius", however "mad idiot" may be more appropriate ;)

On the naming front I'm thinking of calling it "Black Ruby", my 4 month olds name is Ruby and to keep the name generic and link through to the final colour scheme and general toughness I think it's pretty descript. A beautiful base with tough undertones.

Hopefully the name is generic enough anyone buying the bike wouldn't be put off either. The plan is to put the name on the bike sonewhere, on the rear seat area is the lead option like ducatiboy's,
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: maduncle on Dec 27, 2012, 03:04:24

Given my forum name, I prefer 'Black Ruby'.

Or how about 'Ruby Black'?

You could put the name on each side of that front fender...
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 27, 2012, 04:50:13
Front tyre is on! Getting it on was a breeze but I unfortunately got a couple of scratches on the rim, not really noticeable (as they are on the top edge) but I know they are there. Might get some nail polish or similar to touch them up.

I thought I would need a spacer for the fender given the GSXR wheel is 17" and the CB is 18" but it fits perfectly, really snug and makes the front fender look significantly better. I'm confident when painted silver it will look a million times better.

Before:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/60460306-9239-4AE1-AB67-55970C52EB92-683-000000D398FD8994.jpg)

After:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/BC1CAFCF-D24A-4195-A444-DDB2874A536F-1873-0000017BCB487453.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/6E51FF1C-86CC-4B5C-B036-26F9B6BD7A4E-1873-0000017BD029D5A5.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Autotek on Dec 27, 2012, 21:12:55
I think shave the fender down, looks heavy, yes?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 27, 2012, 21:19:04
I think shave the fender down, looks heavy, yes?

Potentially. I've still got the original cut down front fender here too, might save the GSXR fender and see what that looks like first before I go chopping into ABS plastic.

Another update, 1 step closer to having a roller. Only the brace and shock left before I can wheel it around :D:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/7C346B66-8FF2-4438-A142-AE45B251D1A6-2515-000001DE6FC16DEE.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: stroker crazy on Dec 27, 2012, 21:52:47
It does look largish neevo, being white makes it more obtrusive along with the lack of a visually balancing mass at the rear.  I wouldn't commit to anything until you finish the the tail-end a bit more.

Crazy
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Dec 27, 2012, 22:06:48
It does look largish neevo, being white makes it more obtrusive along with the lack of a visually balancing mass at the rear.  I wouldn't commit to anything until you finish the the tail-end a bit more.

Crazy

+1 and maybe the pipes on too? Was Crazy referring to you as "balancing mass"  :o ahahaha lol ;D ...andy...
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: BCBarker on Dec 27, 2012, 22:15:22
Maybe hit it with Black paint to see it the "visual mass" is reduced.... then cut the crap out of it.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: BCBarker on Dec 27, 2012, 22:24:54
Just chopping a little make a big difference.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-zygmGEfrOZc/UN0CxLVR64I/AAAAAAAAB_I/8CbChf8TGpo/s800/Neevo_Fender.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 28, 2012, 00:49:54
It does look largish neevo, being white makes it more obtrusive along with the lack of a visually balancing mass at the rear.  I wouldn't commit to anything until you finish the the tail-end a bit more.

Crazy

Yeah good idea. Especially re the pipes too (good point Andy).

BC looks like paint might make a big difference too, that mockup you did works a treat.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 28, 2012, 00:56:23
Not sure if it can be narrowed without making it weak around mountings?
May be better to try making a couple of 'horse shoes' to mount a narrower guard?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 28, 2012, 01:07:24
Not sure if it can be narrowed without making it weak around mountings?
May be better to try making a couple of 'horse shoes' to mount a narrower guard?

Not like BC suggested as that cuts off the rear mounts, but I'm sure you could thin those mounts down a fair bit.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 29, 2012, 22:48:03
Rear light that Santa bought has been burning a hole in my bench so I popped into Bunnings and bought a 1 3/4" hole saw. Then took out the trusty hammers to flatten a profile for the light fitting:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/78F747CF-C053-40DF-9FC7-057B38D15790-333-00000035E171F1E0.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/1829F018-71A1-48B0-B932-41E0589C1EFE-333-00000035E6A0C86F.jpg)

Fitted with my Custom Dynamics rear light:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/1EF06ED1-C7A4-4B49-8C42-5197343F6A9C-333-00000035ED1C1CF8.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/A230ECFA-ADB3-437F-A86D-4EC5F4912CA0-333-00000035F1C2A247.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/479CDE27-8988-45CC-A148-25D105E28985-333-00000035F669914E.jpg)

I hope there aren't any laws for how bright a rear light can be! In running mode this thing is mega bright, when the brake light comes on its almost blinding!!!
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 29, 2012, 22:48:49
Also had a go at getting the keyless lgnition working (btw video is incorrect as I've now switched the 2nd dip switch up so relay is normally open):

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/16533B16-05FC-4400-874D-AF10AF029D16-303-00000028B9898610.mp4)

Link for those on iPhones: http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/16533B16-05FC-4400-874D-AF10AF029D16-303-00000028B9898610.mp4
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: compoundcycles on Dec 30, 2012, 01:29:04
I dig the front fender. I'm sure it will look great with some matching paint. Just need to get that shock in there and you'll be rolling!
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 30, 2012, 03:34:45
I dig the front fender. I'm sure it will look great with some matching paint. Just need to get that shock in there and you'll be rolling!

You betcha!!! The shock will be here in mid Feb :)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Dec 30, 2012, 04:28:14
JEEZUS H. CHRIST!!
I am not used to these auto-start videos. Sitting here all nice and quiet... had scrolled down the page... then yours buffered and started playing.... Heard your voice and it scared the every lovin SHIT out of me!!!!
 
 (http://sunglasses.name/gif/joker-clap.gif)

 
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Dec 30, 2012, 04:30:03
Sorry Dude, I wouldn't wish my English tones on anyone ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Dec 30, 2012, 12:22:05
You don't sound very Australian  ;)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 01, 2013, 01:12:35
Went over to my local bolt shop yesterday and bought a load of SS hex head bolts for the carbs and rubber manifolds.

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/9F1C8A1A-04F3-4441-B3E7-F68696477E6F-2889-000001C8CD8B634B.jpg)

The plan was to finish up the carbs in preparation for the new jets and gaskets  that are coming. I should have all the parts I need on order now to finish the carbs completely.

Today I polished up the carb bowls and caps. Not a huge fan of polishing them but they looked crap and they look a million times better now. Here's what the parts looked like initially:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/04F71B93-A8B2-4A28-9EE5-0684D70B4F36-2889-000001C8D6F4B2C9.jpg)

I wasn't going for mirror shine, just nice and clean.  Here are the tops all finished:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/03C1C223-A56A-484A-AE77-09C4A14721A3-2889-000001C8DBB08501.jpg)

Bowls finished:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/51EBCE47-86C7-40AD-A2E8-0EB4A06C4618-2889-000001C8E0339C30.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/BF0C14C4-C9E6-420F-86DE-A3A30B98FCC8-2889-000001C8E4FEB18E.jpg)

Couldn't resist a dry fit with the new hardware:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/C21A92B3-7E7F-4B14-A1FB-A62743C1E967-2889-000001C8E9B2E044.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/02CD567A-AF5B-40D4-9DB7-0292C44B4D15-2889-000001C8EE206B0F.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0A5A7C7E-6977-435D-AB08-1C93BEAD84DF-2889-000001C8F285A0F7.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/A9CE6489-B8CB-451B-87C8-1605BB4D1596-2889-000001C8F7FE9CCA.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MickyC on Jan 02, 2013, 06:48:58
looking shiny. think I can see you in the reflection. your a very patient man to do all that polishing mate.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 02, 2013, 07:00:48
looking shiny. think I can see you in the reflection. your a very patient man to do all that polishing mate.

Tops were easy, bowls took some time though, even had to break out the Dremel.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MotorbikeBruno on Jan 02, 2013, 12:10:58
Tops were easy, bowls took some time though, even had to break out the Dremel.

I was going to ask how much fun the bowls were! haha, looking great!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ducatiboy on Jan 02, 2013, 23:33:46
So much work here Neevo! Keep it up mate, you're getting there!!
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 02, 2013, 23:35:54
So much work here Neevo! Keep it up mate, you're getting there!!

Still a looooooooong way to go before I can ride it into Deus for a coffee! You riding yours around yet?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 03, 2013, 00:00:23
Brian I received that package yesterday! Thanks, appreciated.

Tensioner looks good except for some minor rub marks. Anyone with some info on how to get them back into top condition post up some details.

Also have taken the time to blog the whole build for those that want to reference certain parts without looking through this whole thread. Link is in my signature or:

http://idiotsguidetocustom400f.blogspot.com.au
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 03, 2013, 00:28:55
You should be able to punch the pin out, de-burr everything and re-rivet it (or, you could probably TIG it in place)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 03, 2013, 00:53:13
You should be able to punch the pin out, de-burr everything and re-rivet it (or, you could probably TIG it in place)

Thanks PJ. Will check it out on the weekend. Don't even know how bad the old one is, might check that and the old tensioners too.

Any ideas how you tell the condition of a primary chain? I've got a couple here, just wondering if I bite the billet and buy new chains and bendy tensioner arm.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 03, 2013, 01:00:09
I would probably fit a new chain, tensioners seem to last pretty good though
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 03, 2013, 01:18:47
I would probably fit a new chain, tensioners seem to last pretty good though

Good stuff. Brian sent me some good tensioners with the arm too. Not buying them haves me $150 odd.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ducatiboy on Jan 03, 2013, 19:49:41
Quote
Still a looooooooong way to go before I can ride it into Deus for a coffee! You riding yours around yet?

Went for the first longish ride on mine (well it was from the city to Manly beach anyway...) last week and ended up with my right shoe covered in oil and ran out of petrol 400m from home!! Aside from that, all good!!
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 03, 2013, 19:52:34
Went for the first longish ride on mine (well it was from the city to Manly beach anyway...) last week and ended up with my right shoe covered in oil and ran out of petrol 400m from home!! Aside from that, all good!!

Oops! What was the oil leak issue? Any tips for sealing up the engine without leaks?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Sonreir on Jan 03, 2013, 20:17:27
Most common mistake is overtightening the bolts and screws.  Other than that, keep the sealing surfaces clean, use new gaskets and seals, and don't gouge anything.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: stroker crazy on Jan 03, 2013, 20:20:34
ducatiboy - did you identify the source of the leak? Is a passport needed to go to Manly?

Crazy
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 03, 2013, 20:20:51
Is it wise to seal the gasket surfaces with anything too?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ducatiboy on Jan 03, 2013, 20:23:50
Quote
Oops! What was the oil leak issue? Any tips for sealing up the engine without leaks?

Haha! Obviously I'm not the one to give advice on this issue!! I'm off gallivanting with the family around the USA at present so haven't had a chance to look into the oil leak issue yet. I have had a chance to pick up some dirt cheap second hand 900SS parts for the next project though (750F1)!!!
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 03, 2013, 20:24:52
I'm off gallivanting with the family around the USA at present so haven't had a chance to look into the oil leak issue yet. I have had a chance to pick up some dirt cheap second hand 900SS parts for the next project though (750F1)!!!

Well laa dii daa!
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 03, 2013, 22:10:38
Question: was going to head to a local electronics supplier this weekend to pick up some cable and connectors. If I use joining blocks is there any reason why I shouldn't use 1 colour wire for parts?

Also what gauge wire is used for general wiring and then for the battery cable?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: hillsy on Jan 03, 2013, 22:22:41
If you use a single colour of wire for your harness you will have a prick of a time tracing any issues later on (and you will be, trust me.....)
 
Not sure on the guage of wire, but you can get rolls of the stuff from auto shops / SuperCheap - just take a sample along and match the thickness.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 03, 2013, 22:24:57
If you use a single colour of wire for your harness you will have a prick of a time tracing any issues later on (and you will be, trust me.....)
 
Not sure on the guage of wire, but you can get rolls of the stuff from auto shops / SuperCheap - just take a sample along and match the thickness.

What if its just a short obvious run from a specific connector block to say a fuse box?

Can't seem to find anywhere with a good selection of different colours :(
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 03, 2013, 22:34:34
If you use a single colour for all the wiring, get some of the little number 'tags' so you at least have an idea which is which.
They are about 2~3mm sleeves with numbers printed on them
(not sure what they are really called but old BMW, MZ and a lot of machinery use them)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 04, 2013, 02:16:12
Measured up my cable this afternoon. Smaller stuff is about 2.3 - 2.5mm and the larger battery stuff is 7.6mm (measuring the cable width including the sheath).

Is it ok to use 4mm and a suitably thick other gauge (for the battety cables) instead? I assume thicker is fine, thinner is out.

There is a vendor on eBay with plenty of colour options in 4mm that sells by the meter that would be ace to use.

Also looking to undo the stock wiring harness to rewrap it. Is there a high quality electrical tape I can use that won't unwind?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Mo on Jan 04, 2013, 02:56:56
If you're using a single colour wire, you could also use coloured electrical tape or heat shrink at each end with a different colour per wire. How many wires in the part of the loom are you looking at? Loving the project btw, inspirational!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Jan 04, 2013, 03:41:42
Supercheap auto does have a great selection of different coloured wire in rolls and of various gauges, i've got a couple from there  ;D
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: spotty on Jan 04, 2013, 03:49:54
dunno if you have JAYCAR up there north of the border but they're like dicksmiths used to be, sell loads of little leccy bits and wire of various sizes and colours by the metre
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 04, 2013, 04:02:44
dunno if you have JAYCAR up there north of the border but they're like dicksmiths used to be, sell loads of little leccy bits and wire of various sizes and colours by the metre

Yep I've got one here. I was going to buy my connector blocks from them. Will check them out in the morning, I had a look on their website and the colours were a bit limited.

Andy didn't think Supercheap would be any good but will definitely swing past after Jarcar.

Worst case I've found a really good/cheap retailer in the UK with a tonne of colour options.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 04, 2013, 04:20:17
I don't put anything on gaskets, even most of the aftermarket  have heat activated sealer in them.
It's not a good idea to put oil in until your ready to run motor though
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 04, 2013, 05:05:42
Argh! Just got gasket kit from eBay (shipped from US) and they sent the 550 kit instead if the 400. Shitballs!

Anyone want 4 x gasket kit for a 550/750 in Oz? If not I will get them to fix it up.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 04, 2013, 13:51:37
550 and 750 are completely different motors, gasket set will be for one or the other but not both
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 04, 2013, 20:13:55
Bought some bits for wiring the bike this morning. Not doing anything drastic, just relocating bits under the seat (extending wires where required), generally tidying stuff up (like replacing shitty connector blocks and shrink wrapping wires together) and wiring in the RFID, relay, new blade fuse box I've ordered etc. The stuff:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/232E98B9-14BF-41A5-BE89-0DE26B560025-1069-00000088329DF634.jpg)

I couldn't find bullet connectors like the bike came with so I had to buy plastic coated ones:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/034C47D2-747A-4996-AEF8-FDF4BF23640F-1069-0000008A6770E5A5.jpg)

Are these ok for automotive use? If not I will need to return them. Cheers.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Jan 04, 2013, 20:27:48
Yes those connectors are ok, but I would tin the ends of your wires with solder before crimping to avoid corrosion and therefore issuses  :) also a bit of heat shrink over the back of the the connector and the wire is a nice finish   8)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 04, 2013, 20:29:14
Cheers Andy!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Kanticoy on Jan 04, 2013, 23:11:47
Yep, do yourself a favor and pull the plastic off of those, then crimp and solder/heat shrink. Those plastic things are the pits. I use those connectors all the time with this modification,



Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 04, 2013, 23:34:02
Yep, do yourself a favor and pull the plastic off of those, then crimp and solder/heat shrink. Those plastic things are the pits. I use those connectors all the time with this modification,

That's good for a solid connection. What about one that needs to be able to be undone? Leave the plastic on?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 04, 2013, 23:40:08
Cam chain tensioner has been fixed. Turns out the one I got from my buddy Brian is in better shape, so I thought I would fix that one up and have the original available if I buggered it up. Put the tensioner in my vice with a socket over the large pin and and bolt on the other side to press out the pin, it worked a treat but took a bit of force.

I mildly cleaned up the burrs and slight polished the joining faces to minimize the friction. Whacked it back in the vice and pressed it all together. There was a bit of wobble in the pin although I couldn't get it back out again. For safety's sake I popped a couple of tack welds on the pin with the TIG. Not sure what a new arm should be like but this one is tight on the pin (no lateral wobble at all) but moves with zero friction (will swing if you let it). Piccies of course:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/FCF303ED-F628-4BE4-A356-C419AC5EB98A-1289-000000B0438309A2.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/AA57C065-F521-4416-A8CE-86986F55BE81-1289-000000B0485C794A.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/3C897AC9-F09A-487A-AA36-9FE55C1A5062-1289-000000B04EC8F070.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/4ED8B541-827E-4094-A1E4-0FA2263189B7-1289-000000B053720FFC.jpg)

After tack welding it:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/330B750C-5C66-4F09-9962-64421D566897-1289-000000B057D759F5.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 04, 2013, 23:41:42
I used to use them, you can just dip wire end in some dielectric grease before crimping.
I use the original style crimp connectors nowadays, only issue, you have to order and wait for them (although Radio Shack has some sizes)
I'm going to get a new pair of crimps sometime, the ones I'm using at present are at least 30 yrs old
http://www.vintageconnections.com/
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 04, 2013, 23:57:53
I prefer the dielectric grease idea as opposed to soldering, much simpler!

I have stripped the loom back to bare wires as the old tape was looking very tatty. Here it is in all its glory:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/7BD7A228-5CBC-479E-8894-A4ACCC7D8459-1289-000000B05C9748FD.jpg)

I am starting to think it might be much easier to just rewire the bike again from scratch as not much is left that uses the original loom and many things have changed places (controls, electrical components). Thinking of pulling it all apart, running the cables exactly where I want them, getting rid of the stuff I don't need (multiple lighting feeds for all the instrument globes etc) and potentially running more frame earths to remove a bit more excess wiring.

Is this a mistake?

Secondly I've noticed a bit of grey tape under the black tape where some connections have been made. Is my loom not original or was this how it was done?

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/D47D5119-1465-454A-8F1F-303B46D0D703-1289-000000B06104D5C3.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/B1AB4E00-ED56-4166-BA57-93A54D9D9D0C-1289-000000B065C07C8A.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/C38DF3B7-A306-4FC3-9094-476E02A6E933-1289-000000B06AED7D5C.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 05, 2013, 00:25:24
probably original, there are various wires soldered together in loom.
It's probably why Honda wiring was/is more reliable than Yamaha, they crimped the connections, sometimes so tight we had to order a new harness as soon as bike was uncrated
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: BCBarker on Jan 05, 2013, 00:31:10
Glad that tensioner was serviceable! Can't wait to see this sucker done and running!
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: BCBarker on Jan 05, 2013, 00:34:00
Also I think you are on the right path with the wiring. I'm chasing electrical gremlins in my 350k. Found one where the dash lights were pinched and intermittent and the ignition! Bike cuts off mid ride if the key vibrates the wrong way! Do it custom and you will have no questions. Or less questions....
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 05, 2013, 00:46:06
Glad that tensioner was serviceable! Can't wait to see this sucker done and running!

Yeah thanks Brian, the tensioner arms were in much better condition too which has saved me buying new ones. Well worth it, cheers.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: spotty on Jan 05, 2013, 07:36:39
a mate of mine (who's a bike auto elec) reckons tape like that grey stuff put both his kids thru school...........
 
honda never used anything like that, when they did use tape it was black and by now will have no 'sticky' left on it (if my old 750/4 was anything to go by)

start peeling that stuff and you'll probably find bits of stripped wire twisted together and all sorts of nastiness

you'll be much better off building your own loom and it'll be another string to your already impressive bow, the bikes come this far, you don't want a manky patched together looking (and behaving) loom when the rest of the bikes looking that awesome

just my opinion, but i've been there and done that

ps if you were in melbourne i'd refer you to my mates shop but you're way up there so i guess not
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: hillsy on Jan 05, 2013, 07:50:09
You can buy wiring loom tape - it's different to insulation tape in that it's thinner and doesn't have much adhesive.


Also, I don't know if they still sell them, but I got the original style crimp connectors from Dick Smith a few years back - they sold them individually and from memory it worked out to being $1 per complete connector (with the clear shield). Jaycar might have them too.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 05, 2013, 07:56:10
Thanks Spotty, I think you're right. I'm going to use the wire in the old loom to keep most of the colour coding right, will resistance test the pieces first to check for damage.

Hillsy I went to Jaycar today, unfortunately they don't have those connectors. I'm reasonably happy with what I've got, should look nice and neat with a bit of shrink wrap on it.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Steve F on Jan 05, 2013, 08:28:38
Honda still sell the factory connectors and at a reasonable price as well, they are a slightly larger size to the stuff you get in Jaycar etc, at least the ones on my CX are.

Cheers
Steve
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 05, 2013, 13:02:56
Genuine Honda connectors are smaller not larger, 3.5mm rather than 4mm
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 05, 2013, 17:48:14
Genuine Honda connectors are smaller not larger, 3.5mm rather than 4mm

Yeah the originals are definitely smaller than the 4mm's I bought.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 05, 2013, 23:15:37
Fair bit of effort today but not much to see. Spent a good few hours tweaking the seat, getting it as uniform as possible around the frame rails before I put body filler on. Lots of hammering, checking and a bit of welding. It's not 100% perfect but its good enough I hope.

After lunch I made a bracket for the starter solenoid so I can tack weld it to the battery box along with all the other electricals which are on there way now (except the combined rec/reg which I still need to get):

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/B11566D9-F9DE-4A9F-BF00-0BE418250924-354-0000001BB1D9D5DB.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/36F826DE-B702-46B0-B500-538403E63308-354-0000001BB6DBDE8B.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/8F0E0C77-86BD-48FD-8D9B-FCE0276FB685-354-0000001BBB654758.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/1EB67552-6EF4-4D81-8AA4-B446B574FCCE-354-0000001BBFE785FD.jpg)

It's stinking hot here in Sydney today so I've retired inside to watch a bit of the cricket with a cold beer :D
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 06, 2013, 03:24:39
Silver/grey tape is original Honda, it never was sticky
 It's luvvverly in Florida at present, winter time, 68F  ;D
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 06, 2013, 04:02:42
Silver/grey tape is original Honda, it never was sticky
 It's luvvverly in Florida at present, winter time, 68F  ;D

Ooooo! 68 would be nice! Today we hit a balmy 34.8 degrees c (95f). On Tuesday it's going to top out at 42c (108f)!!!

Wiring is going to get completely redone I think PJ too, probably going to keep the stock loom as a backup and try making my own custom loom from scratch. I've got a fair bit of wire here already, just a few more rolls of various colours, a few more blocks and joiners and I should be good to go.

I've bought 10a wire for the smaller stuff, will that be ok? I realise I need thicker stuff for the battery and starter but it seems like everything else is 2.2mm on the stock loom so 4mm 10a seems plenty to me.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: maduncle on Jan 06, 2013, 05:58:20

These guys:

http://www.vinwire.com.au/

And these guys:

http://www.classicwiringlooms.com.au/

Have every coloured wire you could need, plus original grey plastic sleeve, plus connectors.

I built a brand new CB450 harness using stuff from both of them, and using a vintage connector kit set I bought from:

http://www.vintageconnections.com/

Cheers,

Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ducatiboy on Jan 06, 2013, 11:13:06
Hey Neevo, I went to an auto wrecker and bought the complete wiring loom off a wrecked car for $50. It gave me a huge amount of multiple colours. If you can't match the original honda colours you can just make a note of what colour you used. e.g. blue honda wire replaced with yellow mazda wire or whatever. Saves you having to buy multiple spools of different colours plus you end up with enough wire for the next 10 projects!! ;D
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Jan 06, 2013, 14:16:28
DB, I did the same thing for decades now, but never paid anywhere close to that price :-)

I have also been known to buy  say an R6 wiring loom off ebay if I can get it cheaply enough and then I unravel that and use the wires and maybe a couple of connectors, but they are usually in the wrong places and end up being cut off anyway..
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 06, 2013, 14:16:34
Most of the wiring only has to carry 2~3 amps or less
 5 amp will be fine as it's thinner plus more flexible.(I would use 10a for lighting circuits though)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 06, 2013, 17:29:29
Hey Neevo, I went to an auto wrecker and bought the complete wiring loom off a wrecked car for $50. It gave me a huge amount of multiple colours. If you can't match the original honda colours you can just make a note of what colour you used. e.g. blue honda wire replaced with yellow mazda wire or whatever. Saves you having to buy multiple spools of different colours plus you end up with enough wire for the next 10 projects!! ;D

Now that's a cracking idea! What did you use for connections?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Jan 06, 2013, 19:17:07
http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Products/Connectors/Sealed/sealed.html

http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Products/Connectors/Sealed/SM-MT/sm-mt.html

http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Products/Connectors/Sealed/RFW/rfw.html

I use the first ones and usually order a few twin, three and four pins types to have on hand.

And for simple NO Micro relays,
http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Products/Relays/relays.html



Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 06, 2013, 21:49:30
teazer those relays are 4 pin, do I need 5 pin to switch between 2 outputs?

Eg 2 pins for signal. 1 input, 2 outputs,
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 06, 2013, 22:13:35
If you need 5 pin, you use a 6 pin and leave one blank
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 06, 2013, 22:18:41
If you need 5 pin, you use a 6 pin and leave one blank

Why is a 5 pin not appropriate?

http://bit.ly/UZJD5c
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 06, 2013, 22:30:28
I miss read and though you meant connector.
I use 5 pin for lights
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MickyC on Jan 06, 2013, 22:30:35
http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Products/Connectors/Sealed/sealed.html

http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Products/Connectors/Sealed/SM-MT/sm-mt.html

http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Products/Connectors/Sealed/RFW/rfw.html

I use the first ones and usually order a few twin, three and four pins types to have on hand.

And for simple NO Micro relays,
http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Products/Relays/relays.html



they look pretty good are they chunky though i need to wire up my light indicators controls etc and like that look
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 06, 2013, 22:47:10
I miss read and though you meant connector.
I use 5 pin for lights

Yep that's the plan PJ. R6 headlight dimmer control has low beam always on and switch relay to turn it off and turn on high beam. Bit more complicated than the 400F but it looks like I'm starting from scratch anyway so may as well make it work as intended.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 06, 2013, 22:48:46


they look pretty good are they chunky though i need to wire up my light indicators controls etc and like that look

Yeah second to that, are there some mega small ones that can be used for items like the switches on the handlebars. They currently use very small connectors.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: hillsy on Jan 06, 2013, 23:28:05
You can get the vintage style crimped connectors through MCS:
 
http://www.mcsonline.com.au/ (http://www.mcsonline.com.au/)
 
Although when I say "you", I mean you have to get them through a dealer as they only wholesale (most bike shops will have an MCS catalogue in their spares department).
 
The connectors are in Electrical (chapter 12).....but they only sell them in 100's.
 
You can download the catalogue online.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Jan 07, 2013, 03:12:47
teazer those relays are 4 pin, do I need 5 pin to switch between 2 outputs?

Eg 2 pins for signal. 1 input, 2 outputs,

Correct.  EB only show N.O. 4 contact types. You need one with an 87a terminal as well as 87.  Those are very small relays and are smaller than the usual cubes.

If someone needs a picture, I have a couple of spare relays I can shoot a picture of with a ruler in the picture to scale it.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: pandknz on Jan 07, 2013, 05:57:40
Have any of you seen Ducatiboys post of his CB350? its up for BOTM, anyway, he did all the wiring himself and made a great job of it using deutch connectors.

http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=32827.130 (http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=32827.130)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 07, 2013, 08:24:53
Very pleased with myself this evening. 1st draft of my wiring diagram is complete. A bit messy for a first draft and not even bothered with colours just yet but its all there:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/55090A68-253B-4B7C-9E35-0166C2EDE0CC-1181-0000009A8143ADC4.jpg)

Second draft will get the wiring lines tidied up (it's amazing how quickly you run out of space), place the components in their right spots relative to where they will be on the bike so that I can place earths in more appropriate places (they are a bit scattered at the moment), place connector blocks, wire in the illuminated ignition cutoff switch and colour the wires. Last piece to check is the wiring up of the instrument, going with an Acewell 4553 and think I've done it correctly, just need to  make sure.

I do have a couple of questions though. My LED turn signals have 3 wires, what's going on there. Currently I've wired them up as if they had 2 but need to do them properly. And I assume I need another 5 pin relay to switch between rear light and brake light?

Any help is appreciated.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: findyourexit on Jan 07, 2013, 10:11:01
Jeeeez, looks very good! I've just found this thread and have been reading through every page since I too am working on a 1976 Honda Four and live in Sydney as well. So much of the information in your project thread can be translated to what I have to tackle in the future. Seeing your electrical diagram draft scares the living shit out of me (pardon the language), I hope I have what it takes when I get to this stage :P
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Jan 07, 2013, 11:36:09
I never try to do it all in one tidy diagram.  I just have one for each circuit and leave it at that.  Earth leads I work out when the wires and switches etc are all in place because then it's obvious.  For example if say the tail light assembly is rubber mounted, I may choose to insert a long earth lead to take it back to the middle of the frame and I can't tell that from a diagram.

Check those LED lights.  They may also include a running light.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 07, 2013, 15:53:55
Jeeeez, looks very good! I've just found this thread and have been reading through every page since I too am working on a 1976 Honda Four and live in Sydney as well.

Jesus! Good luck with ploughing your way through it ;)

There is a link to my blog in my signature that simplifies the thread down into the actions so you don't have to read all the chat too:

http://idiotsguidetocustom400f.blogspot.com.au

I never try to do it all in one tidy diagram.  I just have one for each circuit and leave it at that.  Earth leads I work out when the wires and switches etc are all in place because then it's obvious.  For example if say the tail light assembly is rubber mounted, I may choose to insert a long earth lead to take it back to the middle of the frame and I can't tell that from a diagram.

Check those LED lights.  They may also include a running light.

Cheers teazer as always. I became obvious which circuits were separate last night. I may have another go and separate 2 more for simplicity and run another live feed down the bike.

Good point re the earths too.

Did you see my question about needing another relay to switch the tail light? I assume I do to separate the running and brake light.

Will also put the LED turn signals onto the tester and battery to work out why the 3 wires.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 07, 2013, 17:40:35
Also what's the best solution for splicing wires together? On the original loom there are bullets with a 4 way female connector. I've got a main power feed with about 5-6 other feeds off it. May strip it down to 2 feeds however still need the ability to branch out a single wire into multiple wires.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: hillsy on Jan 07, 2013, 19:00:23
Also what's the best solution for splicing wires together? On the original loom there are bullets with a 4 way female connector. I've got a main power feed with about 5-6 other feeds off it. May strip it down to 2 feeds however still need the ability to branch out a single wire into multiple wires.

You've probably noticed inside Jap wiring looms they use a simple non-insulated crimp connector. This is more than likely for speed on a production line, but also solder joins can fatigue over time with vibration (unlikely....but that would suck as a warranty recall....).
 
I've only ever needed to solder wires together - if they are taped inside a loom they are generally isolated and safe from separating.
 
Get one of those "3rd hand" stand things from Jaycar or Dick Smith. They've got 2 alligator clips so you can hold your wires together and have both hands free to solder. Strip the ends of the wires about 8mm, flow solder into each end, then put the ends together side by side and flow each end's solder together.
 
If you are doing a bunch of wires in a loom (or say...extending the wires on a switchblock / hardwiring an Acewell), stagger the joins so they are all at different points in the loom. That way your loom doesn't look like a snake that's swallowed a golf ball......and you won't need to use heatshrink on the individual joins because they will only be next to insulated wires  ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: findyourexit on Jan 07, 2013, 19:49:55
There is a link to my blog in my signature that simplifies the thread down into the actions so you don't have to read all the chat too:
http://idiotsguidetocustom400f.blogspot.com.au

Hahaa cheers for the blog link mate, can't believe I missed it  :o! Sub'd to thread anywho - too much good info to miss  ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Jan 07, 2013, 19:50:43
Lots of good points there Hillsy.

No relay for the tail light needed.  If you use a PC8, take one large wire from battery to PC8 and that has a bus that allows for 8 individual powered & fused circuits.

Where you need to splice inside a loom, I twist and solder and wrap with tape.  If you need to splice in say power to a gauge and power to say a switch, wrap the tiny one in the larger one and crimp them together into a connector.  You can always use a touch of colder in necessary. 

Another trick that is not recommended, but sometimes is necessary is to solder a small gauge wire to the outside of a connector pin and then push it back into the housing.


Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 07, 2013, 20:40:39
Is the PC8 a big thing? Had a look on ebay and couldn't pull up anything.

I'm happy to put a relay in, those 5 pins aren't huge.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Jan 07, 2013, 22:01:16
http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/Fuseboxes/PC-8/pc-8.html

(http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/Fuseboxes/PC-8/pc8-final.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Jan 07, 2013, 22:10:34
I think I posted pictures on mine in a small cover on your other thread.

http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=44917.20

I made small aluminium  cover to take the fuse panel, main switch and relays and painted it black so that it looks just like a frame brace/gusset. It's hidden in plain sight!

Or you may have enough space in the tunnel of the fuel tank to mount those parts.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 08, 2013, 07:57:31
Wiring diagram is complete! Including the Acewell and also taillight relay. Might fix some of the colours as I've got a bunch of live feeds in yellow which might be hard to trace at the front of the bike if anything goes wrong, but Honda runs a 5 way split of live black wires, so maybe its not a problem.

Still don't know how I'm going to get a single wire split into say 4 or more separate wires, but maybe something will come to me later down the track. The rear of the bike as a bulk negative post, but that should be easy as I can use loops and bolt multiple loops to the frame. Can't do that with live wires though unfortunately.

Ive got a PDF if anyone wants to double check it for me.

Thanks to everyone for their help, made a huge difference. Also thanks for making me go down this path, its not complete yet (still got to wire the bloody thing) but I'm feeling confident I can do that part and it will be easier running wires rather than finding space on a piece of paper ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: hillsy on Jan 08, 2013, 08:50:09
First of all - that looks good.


You need to ground the -ve from the battery to the engine and frame (that way you can also get a -ve anywhere on the bike by simply grounding). Not sure if you were going to do that.


Also, I don't think you need the relay to the brake lights or the clutch switch. And if you ground the horn switch through the bars you can get away with one wire there instead of two.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 08, 2013, 10:07:42
It's less wiring to use frame as ground but it's more efficient to run ground leads
Ed, how close are you to the fires?
I'm watching BBC World News, New South Wales seems to be having a real rough time, 40 degrees centigrade  :o (about 106f, but, lots of trees, not desert)

Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: findyourexit on Jan 08, 2013, 10:33:10
I'm watching BBC World News, New South Wales seems to be having a real rough time, 40 degrees centigrade  :o (about 106f, but, lots of trees, not desert)

I live in Sydney, NSW and if it's any indication of how ridiculous it must be inland... it is 33 degrees celsius here... and it's 1:30am.... the peak I saw was 45 during the day...
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Jan 08, 2013, 15:13:54
Brake lights don't need a relay.  They don't draw much power.  What is the clutch lever switch and rectifier doing? I'd clean that out of there too. On the Fizzer it connects through a diode pack to the ECU to cut out the starter if it's in gear and the clutch is not pulled in.  We don't need no stinkin diode pack and clutch switches.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 08, 2013, 17:13:35
hillsy
Thanks buddy, appreciate all your inputs! The -ve on the battery is grounded to the frame, its that long black wire, i tried to place things a bit where they would be on the bike so I could know where they would be wired a bit easier. That way I can have a ground point up front too and also where the coils are. I thought that would save on running -ve wires through the bike a bit.

Can you explain why I don't need a relay on the rear light / brake light? I was worried about burning it out (as it was quite an expensive LED cluster from Custom Dynamics). Previously I had the rear light wired into the ignition, so it came on whenever the ignition was live, and the brake light fed from the brake switches, but this meant it would have 2 live feeds into it when the brake light was activated. Hence why I used the relay to switch the power into the light.

crazypj
Using grounds via the frame for the most part. 1 at the rear, 1 at the coils and 1 up front in the headlight bucket (which actually grounds through the coils). Does that sound ok? I thought about running wires but thought I would try and keep it simple.

NSW is pretty damn hot at the moment, but luckily we've got 2 cooler days before it hits 42 degrees again! Im out western sydney which usually is a few degrees warmer than the city  :o however yesterday the city got the worst of it. Damn weird having it 33 degress in the middle of the night though!

Fingers crossed they can get on top of the fires in the next couple of days!

teazer
See my comments on the relay for the brake light above in the hillsy response. I'm sure it wil work with a relay (and I've ordered 2 anyway), however if you think its redundant just let me know and I will simplify the wiring for the rear light. Just don't want to burn out the rear LED cluster.

The clutch lever is doing exactly what the original CB400F does. That rectifier is a diode pack I think (its got the arrow in it). Not sure how it works to cut out the starter motor if the bike is in gear and the clutch is not pulled in, but I left it there to be safe. Are they required for roadworthy? If so I will leave it in, if not I'm happy to get rid of the whole lot as I pull the clutch before hitting the starter button as a habit.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 08, 2013, 17:21:10
I've also been checking some calculations to make sure I'm not going to go over the 10a load rating for the main wire I will be using. From my old physics days at school I know: I=V/R and I=P/V

I am running the coils and headlight on the same circuit (so that the headlight only really comes on when the motor is running). I've assumed 3ohm coils and a 55w main beam.

Coils:
I=12/3
Amps: 4

Headlight:
I=P/V
Amps: 4.58

Total: 8.58amps

Plus everything else on the bike is pretty much run off the same ignition supply. Do I need to run more that 1 ignition supply (from the ignition relay) or am I looking at it wrong?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: hillsy on Jan 08, 2013, 18:59:29
You only really need relays where there is a significant current draw that might damage or overload your stock wiring (apart from your indicator relay, of course). The brake / tail light draws little current (21w brake / 5w tail in standard spec) - and you only have the brake light on monentarily (unless you're trailing your brakes all the time....). And you are going LED, so the current draw is even less then that.
 
As for running both tail and brake lights at the same time - that's what they are designed to do. Again - the brake light is momentary.
 
You would be better off running relays to your coils (with heavier gauge wire) to ensure they are getting the full battery voltage than using relays on running lights / ancillaries where they are not required (Google coil relay mod - lots of older bikes "need" it).
 
 
 
 
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 08, 2013, 19:11:26
You only really need relays where there is a significant current draw that might damage or overload your stock wiring (apart from your indicator relay, of course). The brake / tail light draws little current (21w brake / 5w tail in standard spec) - and you only have the brake light on monentarily (unless you're trailing your brakes all the time....). And you are going LED, so the current draw is even less then that.
 
As for running both tail and brake lights at the same time - that's what they are designed to do. Again - the brake light is momentary.
 
You would be better off running relays to your coils (with heavier gauge wire) to ensure they are getting the full battery voltage than using relays on running lights / ancillaries where they are not required (Google coil relay mod - lots of older bikes "need" it).

Thanks mate! I will remove the relay from the brake light and keep that simple and use the relay for the coils instead. That will significantly reduce the current draw on the live feed (as it will be relay and headlight as opposed to coils and headlight) and also means I can use the spare fuse I have to run a direct feed from the battery to the coils, made live by the relay activated by the running switch.

:)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 10, 2013, 04:26:33
Double checked with Custom Dynamics that constantly running the running light and adding additional current for the brake light is fine (as pointed out).

So I'll be swapping the relay out for the coils instead which helps me out big time on the current draw.

Also the eBayer I bought the carb gasket kit over delivered on the service front, replacements were delivered in about 4 days and I've got packaging and a sticker to send the old ones back. Great service and he was a true gentleman in responding to his error.

Also had my genuine Honda CB battery strap turn up today too.

Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 10, 2013, 06:07:35
crazypj any thoughts on whether I should pull the needle jets from the carbs to make sure the cross holes are clear?

I've got a bit more soda blasting to do on the inside where the linkage goes (I want them spotless) and want them 100% ready for the jets now I've got my gaskets.

Also any thoughts on how to replace the felt washers (unfortunately 1 choke and 1 upper linkage is missing). I assume I'll have to make my own, is there some sort of punch I can buy for the washer and inside hole?

Any thoughts on best replacement material?

How about 2mm felt?

http://bit.ly/Zv5M9R
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: spotty on Jan 10, 2013, 07:11:26
i got a set of hole punches from the local cheap arse import tool shop, cost around $5 for a set of 8 i think, they range from a couple of mm to about the size of a 1cent piece, i use them for plastics (model building) so they would work fine on felt.
use a scrap piece of soft wood under the felt so that the punch can go all the way thru the felt and into the wood for a complete and clean cut, anything harder and you'll find the cuts may not be complete and the felt will tear or deform when you try to seperate it from the waste piece
felt in a variety of colours is available at craft shops ( probably one in your local large shopping mall) you can get adhesive backed stuff that can be stuck to itself to make double thickness
 i only know this cos i also use felt in car modelling for scale carpets, honest, i'm not into scrapbooking............
although for thicker/denser felts you could try an old school auto spare parts shop as lots of old english crap (cars that is, not the bikes.....) used it for gaskets and it used to be sold off the roll
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 10, 2013, 07:45:16
Gotcha! Thanks for the tip, found a tonne of those punches on eBay. Will double check the 2 size felt washers I need to make and order up.

Appreciate the input.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 10, 2013, 14:58:00
I would also look for a small round sharpening stone, you can't have too sharp for cutting soft material.
I have used small sanding drum in Dremel
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 11, 2013, 06:26:50
I would also look for a small round sharpening stone, you can't have too sharp for cutting soft material.
I have used small sanding drum in Dremel

Got one already. Just measured the washers and they are both about 1mm thickness with an OD of 8mm and 11mm. I will grab some felt a 7mm, 8mm, 10mm and 11mm punch and see how it works.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 11, 2013, 13:11:33
crazypj any thoughts on whether I should pull the needle jets from the carbs to make sure the cross holes are clear?

I've got a bit more soda blasting to do on the inside where the linkage goes (I want them spotless) and want them 100% ready for the jets now I've got my gaskets.

Also any thoughts on how to replace the felt washers (unfortunately 1 choke and 1 upper linkage is missing). I assume I'll have to make my own, is there some sort of punch I can buy for the washer and inside hole?

Any thoughts on best replacement material?

How about 2mm felt?

http://bit.ly/Zv5M9R (http://bit.ly/Zv5M9R)

 I wouldn't even consider fitting carbs without checking pilot jets are 100% clear (although the new ones on their way are going to be fine  ;) )
Cross holes in emulsion tubes are 0.60mm, pilot jet cross drillings on genuine jets are larger (0.70~0.75mm)
Aftermarket pilot jets have 0.50~0.60mm cross drillings which can mess things up as it changes fuel curve
As for felt washers, yep, it's about the only thing to do.
I've tried making nylon and Teflon 'seals', they are real critical on size, if even 0.0005" off the throttle sticks  :(
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 11, 2013, 17:36:03
PJ I was talking about the holes on the needle jets which I won't be changing out (not worried about the slows as I bought new and genuine Keihin). Do I need to press them out and clean them somehow?

Shame to hear that those felt washers are critical to get the size right, my measurements were a bit rough as the sizing was a bit funny. Might re look at them and triple check the sizing.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 11, 2013, 18:02:21
Hi Ed, size is no where near as critical with felt washers
 Nylon and Teflon cause binding.
 Yep, push out the emulsion tubes/needle jets, I forgot they are completely different to 360 (doh,  ::) )
Did you get the pin chuck and micro drill set?
Check the diameters with the blunt end of drill
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 11, 2013, 18:27:48
Hi Ed, size is no where near as critical with felt washers
 Nylon and Teflon cause binding.
 Yep, push out the emulsion tubes/needle jets, I forgot they are completely different to 360 (doh,  ::) )
Did you get the pin chuck and micro drill set?
Check the diameters with the blunt end of drill

Ah got ya! That's a relief. I'm only missing 1 small and 1 large so if I have any issues I can only replace those. I would prefer they are all the same though.

I will push out the needle jets then and give them a clean. Didn't get a micro drill set yet, but will check your messages and order one up now.

I've heard a hardwood stick sharpened at the end like a pencil is a great way to driving out the needle jet, let me know if I've got this wrong.

Will also order up some felt and punches so I've got everything to get these carbs in tip top condition. Arguably the first thing that will be completely finished on the bike ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 11, 2013, 19:49:24
Don't remember who (Teazer?) chopstick works and you shouldn't need to modify it
You should have a Chinese restaurant not too far away?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 11, 2013, 20:22:33
Don't remember who (Teazer?) chopstick works and you shouldn't need to modify it
You should have a Chinese restaurant not too far away?

Better than that! I've got some in the kitchen drawer, brilliant idea!

Table of stuff to do today:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/D30E54FE-BE75-4F86-BC66-E34AAA1258CB-637-00000058B132A9FE.jpg)

1. Redo my starter solenoid mount. The one I did earlier is rough and I want it much neater. Will cut it out again an be a bit more careful scoring it for bending as last time I was too deep and it lots its structure. I put some welds in the inside but they are rough... hence why I'm redoing it.
2. Make my battery strap mounts
3. Make the carb pucks. I bought some 6mm Alu for this and later realised its probably not needed. There is only 1 puck for a reason, its used in the middle to hang the return spring off. Ah well I've got the Alu here now so I may as well make them and have them on all carbs.
4. Push out the needle jet and start rebuilding the carbs with fresh parts. Need to grab some more soda to finish blasting the insides of the carbs too. Then reassemble with fresh gaskets in preparation for my new jets arriving.
5. Test making replacement felt washers for the carb linkage.
6. Start laying out the placement of the electrical components on the battery box (my new fuse box, relays, starter solenoid, RFID etc)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 11, 2013, 21:12:53
Already done with the needle jets courtesy of the chopstick trick. Worked a treat.

What's the best way to clear the holes onthe needle jet? One of those mini drill bits? If so what size do you suggest PJ?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Jan 11, 2013, 22:10:15
Chopsticks FTW.  Yes!

Use the wire from a wire bush but measure it first to be sure it's small enough.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 11, 2013, 22:23:14
Chopsticks FTW.  Yes!

Use the wire from a wire bush but measure it first to be sure it's small enough.

My wire brush is 0.35mm wire. How do I know what the holes on the needle jet are supposed to be?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 11, 2013, 23:43:25
the number is the hole size, 35=0.35mm, 45=0.45mm
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 11, 2013, 23:54:35
On the tube it looks like the holes get smaller towards the top too. I might just use the wire to clean them out a touch, maybe hit it with the soda blaster and leave it at that. Don't want to bugger up the needle jets.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 12, 2013, 01:35:23
Results from this afternoon. It turns out the Alu rod I bought was 6.14mm not 6mm like the original puck. I spun the rod on the belt sander to bring it down in diameter slightly and it gave it a nice brushed look too.

Here it is cut to size:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/68C172F0-3E72-4EF0-9F59-CC11675D377D-934-0000008538788F71.jpg)

Next I tidied up the ends a put a slight chamfer on the edges:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/51640B72-9B27-46FD-A1A0-A123A482705F-934-000000853E724BC1.jpg)

Perfect fit:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/827DF604-C3BF-492F-A323-F2537EBA5E64-934-000000854B1260DD.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/AD2033E2-9002-4C9C-8044-EC945F089D40-934-000000854FAEFA9C.jpg)

Next I tried making some brackets for the battery strap. 1 piece of steel with 2 bends in it. Going for button head bolts as they are low profile and won't damage the battery as they will be put inside the battery box:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/BBFC3746-1515-436A-8BE6-34DF63B87477-934-0000008554B62018.jpg)

Mounted, and they work very well:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/473F0C93-C669-471A-ABF5-9D0BC49FE939-934-000000855A9BAB4A.jpg)

Next up was test fitting the electrical components under the seat:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0C97F932-3292-4E0F-9C55-272658D4BA34-934-000000855FA3F32A.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/E623F124-6589-4986-8029-027A383631E5-934-000000856467D6C5.jpg)

This side has been left for the 3 relays, they should fit:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/A6A8A0DA-34A6-4075-AF88-C79B320E89B8-934-0000008569354AF4.jpg)

Light mounted and the seat goes on with no trouble:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/976EF072-2DC2-465E-B509-A34548EA9EC6-934-000000856D982B56.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MotorbikeBruno on Jan 12, 2013, 01:46:40
Nice job man! That was some good work!
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 12, 2013, 02:02:23
Nice job man! That was some good work!

Cheers dude!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Steve F on Jan 12, 2013, 02:19:42
Looking really good :)  Battery box is tidy I need to make one for mine.

Cheers
Steve
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 12, 2013, 06:49:33
Looking really good :)  Battery box is tidy I need to make one for mine.

Cheers
Steve


Thanks Steve, happy to help out if you need it, mines not perfect but I can stick bits of metal together for you if you need?

I'm always surprised at the size of the battery box, I'm using an 8 cell Ballistic battery for the final bike (which is what the box has been made for), the one in there at the moment is from my 2 stroke KTM and its pretty much the same size.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: sinbad85 on Jan 12, 2013, 07:59:47
looks great!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Jan 12, 2013, 11:42:35
That starter solenoid is a loooong way from the starter motor.  It might be better to have it close to the starterwith a short thick lead.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MotorbikeBruno on Jan 12, 2013, 15:09:58
That starter solenoid is a loooong way from the starter motor.  It might be better to have it close to the starterwith a short thick lead.

That's a good point. It's that or a MUCH larger wire than stock. Those Virago's had that problem. Usually you swap them with a larger gauge wire and they work much better.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Weldangrind on Jan 12, 2013, 15:49:01
Neevo, terrific build thread; I've read the whole thing.

Regarding the battery box, would it benefit you to turn the battery around and mount the electrical components on the seat pan side?  It seems to me that it might be easier to route the solenoid cable and other wires that way.

Perhaps I'm missing something.  In any case, I'm learning a lot from your experience.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 12, 2013, 17:26:57
That's a good point. It's that or a MUCH larger wire than stock. Those Virago's had that problem. Usually you swap them with a larger gauge wire and they work much better.

I will do that as I don't have anywhere else for it now the airbox area is clear.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 12, 2013, 17:30:17
Neevo, terrific build thread; I've read the whole thing.

Regarding the battery box, would it benefit you to turn the battery around and mount the electrical components on the seat pan side?  It seems to me that it might be easier to route the solenoid cable and other wires that way.

Perhaps I'm missing something.  In any case, I'm learning a lot from your experience.

Cheers, its a huge meal to get through but hopefully gives people the idea you can start with no experience and get something done still.

I can't mount parts to the other side of the battery box unfortunately as the rear of the seat is curved, so the space gets smaller the further up you go. That being said you have room at the bottom so I might see if the solenoid will fit there. Won't save a huge amount of length on the cable but it would all help.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 12, 2013, 23:10:10
Keep solenoid as close to battery as possible, the starter cable is only used intermittently (when you start bike  ;D )
Use welding cable, 3ft or so won't have too much voltage drop  ;)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 12, 2013, 23:22:27
Keep solenoid as close to battery as possible, the starter cable is only used intermittently (when you start bike  ;D )
Use welding cable, 3ft or so won't have too much voltage drop  ;)

Cheers PJ! Any idea why gauge that would be? I assume somewhere in the 9-10mm range.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 12, 2013, 23:29:39
Slightly heavier than stock would probably be a good idea although stock size will also be fine, 400 won't need too much amps to push over (even with big bore kit)
 Cable is measured by number of strands and strand thickness ( I think in wire gauge size?)
I can't remember starter wire 'sizes' wiring harness is 18/6, 28/12 stuff like that, 6 strands of 18 gauge isn't as flexible as 12 strands of 28 gauge, but,  it doesn't need to be flexible so lower count of thicker wire will be fine
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 12, 2013, 23:32:02
Slightly heavier than stock would probably be a good idea although stock size will also be fine, 400 won't need too much amps to push over (even with big bore kit)

Cheers mate. Stock is 7.5mm so I will make sure its min as heavy or a bit wider if possible. No harm in getting 9/10mm if I can get it. Bit less resistance on the grounding side too.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Steve F on Jan 13, 2013, 01:00:38
If you want to hide it you can also run two smaller cables and route them different ways, it doesn't have to be one big one.

Cheers
Steve

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 13, 2013, 03:14:24
If you want to hide it you can also run two smaller cables and route them different ways, it doesn't have to be one big one.

Cheers
Steve

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

That's a cracking idea!!

Finalising my wiring diagram this evening, swapping out the brake light relay to run the coils.

Simplifying the joints in the system and wondering if I can run 2 wires into the 1 bullet connector? Pretty sure someone mentioned it earlier but wanted to double check. I can solder the wires first to stop them coming apart.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Steve F on Jan 13, 2013, 03:25:47
Actually I should add a disclaimer to the two wire thing, if they are not capable of carrying the amps by themselves and one of them has a poor or no connection there's a possibilty the other wire will catch fire as I'm assuming there's no fuse between solenoid and starter.  If you do run two wires make sure they are both capable of carrying the AMPS drawn by the starter by themselves just to be safe.

Cheers
Steve
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 13, 2013, 03:29:11
Might stick to 1 then ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 13, 2013, 07:04:57
Probably a good idea, I can't really imagine having a 100amp fuse on stater lead  ;D
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: NBraun on Jan 17, 2013, 02:18:24
Just read through the whole thing, and gotta say, your doing a great job! Your doing everything i want to do!
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 18, 2013, 03:34:36
Just read through the whole thing, and gotta say, your doing a great job! Your doing everything i want to do!

Thanks mate! Happy to help if you've got any questions when you get to it. I'm by no means an expert but I'm a lot more experienced than 18 months ago.

Been collecting parts over the last week or two which is why the thread has quietened down somewhat. Still waiting on my felt, 13mm and 9mm hole punches and black tube to finish off my carbs, but I did receive my jets from jetsrus.com today (thanks PJ!).

Have a few of my electrical bits now also so will start wiring the bike up soon :)

Also picked up my round steel tube today to get the swingarm brace bent.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 18, 2013, 23:57:03
Finally the mercury dipped below 40 degrees so a healthy day in the shed was to be had.

During the week a received some of my parts.

Jets: I'm going on the rich side for the 466 kit, K&N filters and open but appropriately long pipes. Bought some smaller mains so I've got options (100, 92, 80) and also have some slow options (42, 35 ideally I would have 38 too):

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/E9914AC8-3B77-437D-9E24-436FB53540CC-12217-00000D636E652508.jpg)

My relays came in for the indicators, headlight and I'm waiting on another 5 pin for the coils, plus my new starter solenoid (old one looked crappy):

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/70256FB3-AF9F-4ABF-8249-732E84E18860-12217-00000D637334101E.jpg)

I picked up my steel for the swingarm. Completely farked it up originally by ordering tube and not realising that I should have been more specific and ordered round. So I've got 1" x 2mm & 22.2mm x 1.6mm tube in both square and round now. Oh well I've got stock here now should I want to make a table or anything ;). Also picked up some 25mm x 3mm Alu bar which will be used to make exhaust hanger brackets:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/52A3E100-F64F-41D4-9D67-E355F9157098-12217-00000D6377F08909.jpg)

Finished the battery box/electrics tray. Only bits left are putting the final relay on and buying the combined rec/reg which is going on the empty side. It's tight but it all fits thankfully:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/E3A3C65B-F11A-4DE3-A33C-ECE64A0949F5-12217-00000D637CC8D15A.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/97C0D8DE-59D6-4A81-84AB-239F0C00E2EF-12217-00000D638654291A.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/08EB26C0-D927-4A1C-ACEE-701494FDE666-12217-00000D6381F980F3.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 19, 2013, 01:20:40
Well, is it running yet?  ;D
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 19, 2013, 02:40:05
Nearly... Should be able to fire it up Sunday...




















Oct-13!!!!

The carbs are 50% together. Still waiting on punches and felt to finish off the o-rings, then they should be finished.

Popped the 100 mains in, 42 slows and put the needle on the 2 clip from top. Prefer to start rich and lean it out from there.

Gratuitous carb pic with the return spring attached too:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/945308CC-354D-4B98-8603-5625235E3E0E-12426-00000D9DFCA78C92.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: DesmoBro on Jan 19, 2013, 02:50:10
sweet man, hope it fires right up 4 ya
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 19, 2013, 02:54:59
sweet man, hope it fires right up 4 ya

Doubt it ;)

Reason I got into this malarkey was I rebuilt my dirtbike after I drowned it. Full bottom and top end rebuild. Put it all together and couldn't get it to fire. Suspected electrical, replaced coil, nothing fixed it. 6 months this went on for.

In the end took it to a mates house to swap some of his electrical bits. Just before we got stuck into it he tipped the bike on its side to make sure fuel was in the bowls.

The instant the starter button was pressed a crisp sounding 2 stroke sparked into life.

I can rebuild them... just struggle with the basics when I comes to getting them to fire ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: DesmoBro on Jan 19, 2013, 03:00:53
haha its always something....well best of luck, it looks like it will fire from here...nod of approval
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 19, 2013, 03:14:34
haha its always something....well best of luck, it looks like it will fire from here...nod of approval

Fingers crossed! Carbs are looking good and frame should be getting finished in the next few months too. Then the big job of getting the motor done.

Fingers crossed it should be ready for a test ride around October.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: stroker crazy on Jan 19, 2013, 03:42:14
Tidy electrics package neevo!

Crazy
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: spotty on Jan 19, 2013, 03:43:07

The instant the starter button was pressed a crisp sounding 2 stroke sparked into life.


pity it was an XR before you drowned it.........LOL
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 19, 2013, 04:13:10
pity it was an XR before you drowned it.........LOL

Bwahahahahahahah!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MotorbikeBruno on Jan 19, 2013, 15:55:20
Those are some great bits to put on there. I always love new electric parts too! Reliability at its finest! Keep it up, I love watching this build!  ;D
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 19, 2013, 23:33:58
So I'm going round and round in circles drawing this loom. I've got the layout its the colours that are causing issues.

Thinking I may just use the wiring map and get stuck into it, swapping colours as I go and updating the diagram.

Anyone think this is a bad idea?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Jan 20, 2013, 06:09:37
What kind of color issues... Are you trying to match the factory wire colors?
Finding multi-color code automotive primary wire is a real bitch (ex: red with white tracer). If you find it, you usaully have to buy a 100' spool or more... and of EACH color combination can get real expensive.
 You can go to a junkyard and buy a main wiring harness from a car and MIGHT get what you need, or close.

At work we wire our machines in few colors (black, white red, blue) and use wire labels on each end. With all the various Inputs and Outputs you'd have enough color combinations to stock a ware house!
 
(http://www.cmsplc.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/270x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/m/2/m21-125-c-342_1_1.jpg)
 
Google  images "Brady wire markers"and you'll see a lot of options....
You can pick up wire marker labels in either colors or numbers at industrial / electrical suppliers.
(http://www.wassco.com/prodimagefolders/15/WAS-15-762043.jpg)
OR a Brady label printer that has wire marker function and actually NAME the wire (ign, Rt/Turn, Coil etc.)
 
(http://images.drillspot.com/pimages/6890/689002_300.jpg)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 20, 2013, 06:14:07
I've only got 6-7 unique colours and so making sure I've not got the same colours twice in a specific joint or section is proving to be impossible.

I am thinking I may just cut up the original loom and use the colours in that too as it will allow me a million more possibilities.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Jan 20, 2013, 06:16:54

I am thinking I may just cut up the original loom and use the colours in that too as it will allow me a million more possibilities.
That'll work too!
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 20, 2013, 06:21:33
Also no going back if I do that too ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 20, 2013, 14:26:44
Find a wiring harness from a crashed sportbike, must be a junkyard somewhere that has wrecked Honda in it
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ronnie on Jan 20, 2013, 16:39:39
Second that on the junkyard, that's what km going to look into when I get to electrical. That is if I can't find a boat engine wire harness from our boatyard.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: SONIC. on Jan 20, 2013, 16:42:42
Neevo, I got a NOS harness with my bike, I'd be happy to ship ya the original harness if that would help
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 20, 2013, 18:39:29
I think I should be good, I'm quite happy cutting up the stock harness as the wires seem good but not much else is.

I was weighing up keeping it in case I sold the bike, but to be honest the bike is so different from stock now there is no point.

If I bugger it up though I may hit you up for it ;)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 20, 2013, 22:35:03
PJ any advice on a good float height for my needs?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 20, 2013, 23:22:37
1~2mm above stock.
The fact you have adjustable needles helps a lot (even though they are a real PITA to adjust)
 I haven't done a big bore 400 for such a long time I've forgotten most of the stuff (my brother threw out all my notebooks a few years ago)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 21, 2013, 01:31:26
1~2mm above stock.
The fact you have adjustable needles helps a lot (even though they are a real PITA to adjust)
 I haven't done a big bore 400 for such a long time I've forgotten most of the stuff (my brother threw out all my notebooks a few years ago)

Yeah getting those needles out sucks big ones! So if stock is 24mm are you suggesting 25-26 or 22-23?

I have a good understanding of the jets and how they work but not sure on the relationship the float height plays. Can someone educate me?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 21, 2013, 02:11:58
25~26mm.
Higher you set float level, the lower fuel will be in bowl which changes all the lower throttle opening fuel delivery. (lean's it out)
Doesn't really affect max rpm operation as you will be jetting that separately (which then re-affects mid-range which means needle position)
 You can spend an unreal amount of time road testing, it's why I think 'rolling road' (dyno run) with EGA is so great
 Don't know pricing where you are but price has dropped dramatically in central Florida

Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 21, 2013, 07:02:45
Dyno isn't too bad here, I think about $300 all up. Might be worth it if I struggle to get it running perfectly.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MotorbikeBruno on Jan 21, 2013, 11:04:14
Dyno isn't too bad here, I think about $300 all up. Might be worth it if I struggle to get it running perfectly.

For that price you should look into an LM-2 kit. I'm getting the full setup this spring when I sell the KZ550.  No more guesswork!

http://www.google.com/search?q=LM-2+wideband&aq=f&oq=LM-2+wideband&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=LM-2+wideband&hl=en&tbo=u&source=univ&tbm=shop&sa=X&ei=wVj9ULboLYrQqwHpzYB4&ved=0CFUQsxg&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41248874,d.aWM&fp=c7e682ab8bcf7c59&biw=1920&bih=955
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 21, 2013, 13:31:30
Yep, if it's data logger or can be connected to computer, that would make more sense than paying $300.00 for dyno tune as you can use it on all your vehicles
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MotorbikeBruno on Jan 21, 2013, 21:18:47
Yep, if it's data logger or can be connected to computer, that would make more sense than paying $300.00 for dyno tune as you can use it on all your vehicles

Yup, I ended up going with this. Should be here end of the week or next week early as I just got impatient....  I'll let you know if  I like it. $189 shipped.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 21, 2013, 21:23:08
Yup, I ended up going with this. Should be here end of the week or next week early as I just got impatient....  I'll let you know if  I like it. $189 shipped.

HTF does it work?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: NBraun on Jan 21, 2013, 22:13:06
I'm not totally sure on this, but you weld the 02 sensor into the exhaust pipes and those hook up to the data logger. From there you can see the A/F mixture at any given load and adjust your carbs to either lean out or richen the mixture. I think the ratio you want is 14.7:1, but don't hold me on it.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Weldangrind on Jan 21, 2013, 22:26:16
AFAIK, 14.7:1 is the stoichiometrically ideal ratio, but not necessarily where max power is developed; I think that's closer to 12.5:1.  For the sensor to really tell you anything other than yes or no, it would need to be wide band.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: SONIC. on Jan 21, 2013, 23:34:13
Yeah you'd need a wideband sensor.
Ideal stoicheometric ratio is 14.7:1 meaning that to get complete burn and the most utilization of available power IN THEORY you want 14.7:1 air to fuel. But in the real world we dont see ideal so 14.1 ish is about right.
For max power in the real world you need to aim a little richer between 12.3-13.5 depending on your engine.

Im going to have to pick up one of these wideband O2 sensors. Would sure making tuning easy. "eh it feels rich" is not nearly as good as "oh im running 11.6:1 at 9000 rpm"
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MotorbikeBruno on Jan 21, 2013, 23:41:34
I failed to put the link in. sorry about that!

http://www.amazon.com/Zeitronix-Wideband-AFR-Meter-Logging/dp/B008466B14/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1358825887&sr=1-1&keywords=zeitronix

Sonicjk, that's exactly my thought. "it feels rich" doesn't cut it anymore.  I'm tired of swapping sets and sets of jets based on OTHER people's engines.  so this is hopefully going to help me.  It should help me dial it in close enough to make it drivable AND zippy!  I'll keep you updated Neevo, hopefully it works well and gives you a solution not only on this bike, but your next  ;)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 21, 2013, 23:46:24
Neevo, hopefully it works well and gives you a solution not only on this bike, but your next  ;)

Thanks Bruno. Seems like a good solution to getting the jetting spot on. Can I confirm how you use it?

1. Weld in bung
2. Test each jetting phase individually (eg start on slow jet at idle)
3. Check ratio
4. Change jet based on lean/rich condition
5. Retest
6. Move on to next circuit (eg needle jet)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Jan 22, 2013, 02:02:18
more or less, but you need to check fueling at different at different revs and throttle positions and then check transients
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MotorbikeBruno on Jan 22, 2013, 11:44:22
Yeah, it really needs to be tested under load.  I was going to wire it in, make a "gauge pod" for it or some sort of mechanism to hold it on (not permanent...although you could if you wanted) then you do typical driving, and roll ons etc.    Here's the main website.  http://www.zeitronix.com/   

Since you are asking.  I should be able to see what a/f is at while at idle. That will let me know how the idle circuit is doing.  (at a stand still, no need to "drive" the bike for this one)  I'm not going to weld in the bung unless I am getting odd readings. The particular bike I am working on has 4-4 exhaust...so I can check each carburetor relatively easily.  If it's a 4-1 you are checking all carbs as a whole, making it harder to diagnose which carb might be giving you problems.

Next up, will be a series of runs holding the RPM at different spots to see how the bike is reacting to certain RPMs, say 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000  just to get a bearing of where the A/F is at cruising speeds and mild attitude.  (no changes to the carbs yet, just data acquisition) ----unless it's WAYYYYYY OFF.

Then it's finding A/F from 0-1/4 throttle, make sure it's not insanely rich/lean, then 1/4 to 1/2 and 3/4....and lastly WOT.  Many times we have to compromise in other places and at WOT you are running REALLY rich or REALLY lean.  I'm just tired of looking at plugs that look amazing, like toasted marshmellows.... ;) without much carbon, and dont look lean...yet the bike has dips and funny spots here and there.

Now all of that....is going by reading hundreds of threads from car guys and a few bike guys since the info on doing A/F for motorcycles (especially carbureted ones) is hard as hell to find, I am choosing what I think will work. We'll find out! ;D
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: teazer on Jan 22, 2013, 12:30:20
Good points Bruno.  I tend to start with idle and make sure it's a touch rich.  If it's 14.7 it will probably stumble as you roll on the throttle.  A touch rich is like having a small accelerator pump and typically makes for better slow speed roll on.

Next, do a WOT roll on and watch the gauge or fit a TPS and log A:F and TPS position to an old laptop. See where the mains are at mid revs and top end and change main jets to get that right. If the slope is off, it can be tweaked later.  If your dyno guy has a Factory eddy current system he can hold it at 500 rpm steps for you on the way up. If not, check teh data to see what's going on as the revs rise.

Without an A:F, you can use the one on teh dyno and check teh graphs.  What you will probably see is lumpy at low revs as the throttle is wound open and then a gradual rise or fall in A:F ratio as revs rise.  That gives you an indication of the fuel slope.

Then do a sweep at 1/4 throttle, 1/2 and 3/4 and again you want to see what the A:F looks like at different revs for a given throttle opening. 

Without a dyno, but with an A:F gauge, get idle right and then focus on flat out WOT under load and glance at the gauge without fixating on it.  Then repeat at 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 throttle.

Next, just ride the bike normally and check the gauge at light load and cruising speeds. 
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 22, 2013, 12:42:42
Teazer and Bruno did a good explanation of how to set things up
Even when you get everything theoretically correct (according to gauges/monitoring devices) you may find on road driveability requires slightly richer or leaner mixtures depending on how fast you open throttle.
It may be easier to get as close as possible then modify you riding style (when in doubt, flat out  ;D )
The other thing we always used to say (back in the day, but probably said even earlier)
"Change down, open up"  ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MotorbikeBruno on Jan 22, 2013, 15:55:48
Neevo I'll keep you updated, I actually contacted him (well he contacted me when I told him what I wanted to do with it) and I am switching to the ZT-2 for now, and then getting the Data Logger (no computer needed while running around on it) and MAP sensor for more accurate data as well (extra $100)  When I get it all in and tested I'll let you know how it goes.  Sorry again for the threadjack!
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 22, 2013, 18:43:43
No thread jack mate! This is valuable stuff.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 26, 2013, 19:51:54
Quick question oh wise ones. I bought some heavy gauge wire for running my battery connections and also the extra long starter cable. I bought some thin strand 8 gauge but looking at the thick strand original cable it looks much thinner.

Should I be using 4 gauge instead?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 26, 2013, 21:47:26
8 should be fine, your not expecting it to carry continuous 100+ amps, 65 is when you hit button and 40ish when motors spinning
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 26, 2013, 21:50:52
8 should be fine, your not expecting it to carry continuous 100+ amps, 65 is when you hit button and 40ish when motors spinning

Thanks PJ. So it should be good for starter. How about -ve ground for battery too?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 26, 2013, 22:15:32
Shouldn't make any difference, you have to compete a circuit, 8 out, 8 in  ;D
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 26, 2013, 22:27:06
Thanks bud. Looks like I've got everything I need to wire the bike up then!

Tomorrow will be a busy day.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MotorbikeBruno on Jan 27, 2013, 12:07:55
Thanks bud. Looks like I've got everything I need to wire the bike up then!

Tomorrow will be a busy day.

Yup! That gauge will be fine, good luck wiring her up!
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 28, 2013, 02:30:56
Well would you believe it, Sydney is absolutely soaking today. Thoughts go out to those in QLD who are suffering horrible floods... AGAIN! One minute were burning, the next were drowning!

Whoever says things aren't changing is mental, should start looking for a hybrid ;)

Anyway today I started the wiring. I was worried about the parasitic draw the RFID would impose on the electrical system so I went and bought a smart little waterproof switch which will be mounted in the subframe tray and shouldn't be visible easily. This will switch power to the RFID to stop it draining the battery when the bike is laid up:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/A30D1333-1EAF-4993-B561-D611046D9FC4-486-00000063928907DB.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/E3721520-676A-4F63-B86D-7F7BD95F1EA8-486-000000639A187913.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0CF7322A-A269-4994-989B-1C51C1F32B6A-486-000000639FFCA8BB.jpg)

Also popped over the the father in laws and borrow his ancient soldering iron to tackle the custom loom. Set the bench up for some wiring time:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/1350DCD6-F9F0-460B-B0C4-B5CB2CFB8FB8-486-00000063A635A4CA.jpg)

Practiced my joints first:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/93E2848F-B8FD-4F7E-863C-7377A3CBE67C-486-00000063AACE2670.jpg)

And with some shrink wrap:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/67AF672A-879D-4CBE-A24E-37B181C4C490-486-00000063B1064E81.jpg)

Ok, so I've got the technique down, now time for some making stuff. First up was the fuse box. All wire ends were soldered, crimped into the connector and shrink wrapped:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/7014BDDB-99D1-4991-B53F-4E91B4FAD8FF-486-00000063B8EA34FB.jpg)

Nice ;)

And here is the final result, which incidentally took me about 2 hours:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/5030AC1F-F35A-4FCD-B8CB-DD15B63D7EBF-486-00000063F8F80370.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Jan 28, 2013, 02:37:34
I'm running my 360 with a single 10A fuse (but carrying a couple of 15A just in case  ;) ;) )
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 28, 2013, 02:43:01
Really!!! I'm surprised as I thought the headlight and coils would pull about 8A. Shows how low current the rest of the stuff is.

I'm separating a lot of the circuits with the 5 fused:

1. Main
2. RFID/Relay and something else I can't remember at this stage
3. Headlight
4. Taillight
5. Coils
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Jan 28, 2013, 05:22:07
Now thats how you do a connection!  ;) good job man.....
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: hillsy on Jan 28, 2013, 08:41:44
The GS450 only runs one fuse.


I thought someone had taken the fusebox off mine when I got it, but it was never there in the first place.....
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ducatiboy on Jan 28, 2013, 18:07:08
Mate that is a brilliant job on the fuse box 8) 8)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 28, 2013, 18:10:14
Mate that is a brilliant job on the fuse box 8) 8)

Cheers bud! It's actually very therapeutic soldering and crimping wires.

Getting all the end pieces done first then will run all the lines. Fingers crossed it works out.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MotorbikeBruno on Jan 28, 2013, 18:19:20
Looking good sir! Also..I got my goodies in from Zeitronix...muahahhaa. I'll figure out how to use this thing and I'll let you know what's up!  ;)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 28, 2013, 19:04:40
Looking good sir! Also..I got my goodies in from Zeitronix...muahahhaa. I'll figure out how to use this thing and I'll let you know what's up!  ;)

Bung welding action!!! Keep us all posted.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 30, 2013, 07:35:12
Just pulled the trigger on the latest big purchase. Not only is the item top shelf but the people involved are top shelf too. It represents a big milestone in the build:

(http://www.karori.com.au/files/hogget%20ram%202.JPG)(http://blogs.studentlife.utoronto.ca/lifeatuoft/files/2012/10/shock1.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: DesmoBro on Jan 30, 2013, 11:01:19
WoW you gonna teach the monkey to ride the sheep?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MotorbikeBruno on Jan 30, 2013, 12:20:21
WoW you gonna teach the monkey to ride the sheep?

 ;D
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on Jan 30, 2013, 12:56:52
A "Ram-atang"?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ridesolo on Jan 30, 2013, 13:33:44
You are going to Quit "Monkeying around" and "Ram" this project to completion?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Jan 31, 2013, 04:26:44
You are going to Quit "Monkeying around" and "Ram" this project to completion?

Hopefully ;)

Distinguished Gentlemans Ride is Oct-13 in Sydney so I've now got a final date in mind to make that.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: RubberChicken on Feb 01, 2013, 23:37:07
Ok, so I've got the technique down, now time for some making stuff. First up was the fuse box. All wire ends were soldered, crimped into the connector and shrink wrapped:

Soldering and then crimping is not such a good idea, cold flowing can cause you probs later on, proper crimping should create an airtight joint, but if still want to solder do it after the crimp is made.

Btw it was you build that made me sign up.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Feb 01, 2013, 23:41:11
Crimp then solder is different though
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 02, 2013, 04:54:44
Btw it was you build that made me sign up.

Oh Jesus! We're in trouble people, I'm starting to influence peeps, that can only end in tears ;)

Appreciated RubberChicken, how did you find about my 400F turd?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Steve F on Feb 02, 2013, 05:34:57
Hopefully ;)

Distinguished Gentlemans Ride is Oct-13 in Sydney so I've now got a final date in mind to make that.

Been wondering about the date for that :) Looking forward to seeing the bike on the ride.

Cheers
Steve
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 02, 2013, 05:58:21
Cheers Steve! Hopefully a shakedown ride or two before.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MotorbikeBruno on Feb 02, 2013, 15:02:52
Cheers Steve! Hopefully a shakedown ride or two before.

I expect pics or video...or both  ;D
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: RubberChicken on Feb 03, 2013, 07:11:05

Appreciated RubberChicken, how did you find about my 400F turd?

Searching the web for cafe racers, came across "down under" and "idiot" in the title and thought that sort of describes me so sub'd

Got my myself a 81 xv750 to cafe but life and house projects have stalled it 4 now
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 03, 2013, 18:44:29
Life has a habit of getting in the way when building these things. Mines been a slow labour of love and I'm still ages away!

Gives you time to get things right though and consider each part. Where in Oz are you!
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: RubberChicken on Feb 04, 2013, 04:33:32
Perth.  Btw you really should remove the idiot bit from the title, I haven't seen anything in this thread that qualifies you as a idiot.


Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Feb 04, 2013, 05:02:45
Don't take yourself too serious, it's a joke
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: sinbad85 on Feb 04, 2013, 08:37:06
hopefully my kz will be putting next to you on dgr! yours too steve.......i cant wait to see that fairing in the flesh
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 04, 2013, 16:50:43
hopefully my kz will be putting next to you on dgr! yours too steve.......i cant wait to see that fairing in the flesh

Finges crossed!!! It's good to have an end date and I think DGR is realistic given its later in the year.

Can't wait to don the suit and ride out. A little DTT collective ;)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 12, 2013, 02:55:47
Wow, 8 days since my last post! My best mate just landed in Oz from blighty so I've been busy doing touristy stuff and drinking beer ;)

That left no time for bike stuff, despite the fact that the wiring is only 2% complete. Plenty to be getting on with then!

Today I got another big ticket item, a delayed Xmas pressie, but dammit it was worth it.

Ready to crack open the box:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/DBCE295A-9910-46A0-9118-FBE2E41A8D72-1520-0000028CEB7916EC_zps52071b28.jpg)

The goodies!!!! TTR400 weld on rearsets. Beautifully crafted and come with everything you need to connect them up:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/2B4CF841-FB27-488D-8A1E-3A8D45CFD71E-1520-0000028CF18DDE48_zps5767280f.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/25F16B9A-A0EC-4F52-8BD7-35F983359359-1520-0000028CF690C1B4_zpsf24ea908.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/AB9AFC90-C10C-432D-8074-46E4E00B95B0-1520-0000028CFB903633_zps4931c657.jpg)

It comes with placement instructions for the brackets but I've long since cut off the shock mounts and even extended the rear uprights approx 1" so the measurements are useless to me. Need to work out a way of working out where the placement should be:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/EFB63A12-2953-4427-80B7-93355A5E2B6A-1520-0000028D45FDEACE_zpsa0da6b76.jpg)

Here they are with a test fit, cannot do the RHS yet as apparently I need to cut off the pivot tube for the old brake setup:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/F0D4863A-7495-4412-925F-374F988150DC-1520-0000028D4AD2BA70_zpsed321203.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/E06AF72F-295D-4A9F-A3F2-F9E207458D34-1520-0000028D4F90D362_zps186cba3a.jpg)

Does anyone out there want to measure down from the shock mount 220mm and tell me where it should be at the bottom. Measurements would be good so I can measure from the bottom instead.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Feb 12, 2013, 07:46:18
I wouldn't worry about 'advisory' measurements, just sit on it and see where your feet like to be (you even have someone to help at present  ;D )
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Evil August on Feb 12, 2013, 11:20:49
I would honestly take pj's advice but I'd bet Kevin would take other measurements for you if you shoot him an email. Otherwise I'll be happy to take them when I get my bike back.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 12, 2013, 16:45:39
Cheers Evil, appreciate it.

As always thanks PJ, any tips on how to get the right location? It's tough with the weld on plates as I cannot put my feet on the pegs without them moving. Might use more cable ties. I assume the position will feel natural when I sit on the bike if they are positioned correctly.

When I put my feet on them past night it felt as if the brake pedal and gear shift would be pointing downwards, is that normal?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ronnie on Feb 12, 2013, 18:15:51
The way some race bikes are the pedals are about 45 degrees past the horizon give or take 10 degrees if you follow what I'm saying. But I have seen some that are facing downwards a bit. The more you are leaning over the more they will have to be facing down in order to be ergonomic with your position. If it doesn't feel as natural as posible it won't be comfortable for very long I would imagine. I don't have race experience or rearset experience so I'm going off of logical thinking.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: SONIC. on Feb 12, 2013, 19:08:36
Mine on my 350 were too horizontal, I had to lift my foot too much to shift and when relaxed my toes were well below the shifter.

So yeah they should be pointed downward.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: maduncle on Feb 12, 2013, 23:33:36
When setting the rearset angle, I work on a 'keep your feet at 90 degrees to your shins' theory. Mine are currently set at around 7 o'clock, but I want to try and lift them up a little if I can.

Nice thing about the DCC fully indexable rearsets I am using is how adjustable they are.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: pandknz on Feb 13, 2013, 00:15:17
The position looks very close to where I have set mine up, when I sit on my bike and put my feet on the pegs I naturally lean forward over the tank and it puts the clip ons in a perfect position for my hands and the sole of my foot is at @ 45 deg, this is where the brake and gear shift should be, parrellel with your sole of your foot, I'm over 6' so you need to make it suit you.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Feb 13, 2013, 00:35:40
360 is almost same size as 400f, here's mine
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k315/1crazypj/Honda%20CB360/CB360-hiding-2.jpg)

(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k315/1crazypj/Honda%20CB360/CB360-newbrakelink.jpg)
I was 5'11" but since back is F.U. I'm down to about 5' 9 (an a bit)
32.5" inseam, (legs are still the same  ;D ) position is just about perfect for me, 200+ mile 'day trip' wasn't a problem (it is since surgery last year, arm is also getting worse  >:( :( )
 brake is about 30 ish degrees below horizontal
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 13, 2013, 04:01:19
Thanks everyone! Seems like the footpeg on most bikes is around the same level as the swingarm bolt. Will try that on for size first and see if it works. Then drop a couple of tack welds on and try it for real.

Edit: just tried it on for size and it seems ok having the peg same height as the swingarm bolt. Tough genuinely testing it out with cable ties as the pegs move all over the place when you try and weight them. Put my feet on the frame and whilst it was way to high it felt not to bad, so obviously stability plays a big role.

Will tack it up level to kick it off and see how it feels from there, issue is to get the peg under my arse involves moving the pegs back an inch or so (due to stretching the tank) which also lifts it up on the frame rail too. Worst case I can weld the brackets and also affix some carriers to move it back further if required.

Perils of a non standard bike ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: spotty on Feb 13, 2013, 08:02:16
you could take a leaf out of hyosungs book and make up a pair of plates with several sets of mounting holes, weld them on and move the pegs around to suit

(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o549/spotty666/hy_zps5012654f.png)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 13, 2013, 08:06:31
you could take a leaf out of hyosungs book and make up a pair of plates with several sets of mounting holes, weld them on and move the pegs around to suit

(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o549/spotty666/hy_zps5012654f.png)

That's a good idea. If I can't get them spot on that's a good solution and I can mount the bracket to the original rearsets mounts.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Feb 13, 2013, 12:14:54
It's probably the easiest thing to do, make a couple of 1/2" alloy plates to bolt to the frame mounting.
I would shape the steel piece to weld towardsinside of frame tube though, may end up with too much offset if they are completely centered on tube?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 15, 2013, 06:55:48
Couldn't resist a Friday night session seeing as I've not got much done over the past week or two. Today's order of business, remove the rear brake pivot tube and tack my billet beauty rearsets in place.

Preping the work area:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/F4900557-DD4A-4EBF-A2A8-EB9D876673F5-2563-0000043FF5198DE2_zps02540888.jpg)

The offending article:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/A92384B3-B544-4544-8C18-D22E0287D0EA-2563-0000043FFA78FCF1_zps31893970.jpg)

Trimmed and noticed the factory dent:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/EC8DFABA-4565-474B-828D-1E2D32926FEA-2563-0000043FFF6B9736_zps77b48162.jpg)

I tried the rearsets with cable ties this week and found putting the peg on the same plane as the swingarm bolt was the most comfortable. So I dropped a few tacks on and set about seeing how they looked:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/D59542B2-7058-4DC7-B5CC-232469EAF9A9-2563-0000044005A5BAC3_zps5ff66b52.jpg)

Sat on the bike and finally put some weight on the pegs, pushing me forward on to the bars a bit but felt pretty good. Certainly didn't want them any higher but this is where I ran into a couple of issues with the rear brake setup.

1. The pedal contacts the rear brake pivot point. Not overly concerned as the pedal shouldn't come this far up when set correctly:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/09BFCC99-B918-4E60-8243-E56974B396BE-2563-000004400BB299FF_zps7492925a.jpg)

2. The pedal contacts the linkage arm when pressed down. This is going to be an issue:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/F0924501-5A1E-4B2D-8852-A2C6CFD1B790-2563-000004401146ECF2_zps4db4ab59.jpg)

3. The linkage arm seems way too close to the frame:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/A84CFBE9-E619-4CFD-BA56-EE853BFE45B0-2563-000004401629BE9C_zpsf696e311.jpg)

What have I done wrong?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: maduncle on Feb 15, 2013, 07:06:13

The pedal contacts the rear brake pivot point. Not overly concerned as the pedal shouldn't come this far up when set correctly:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/09BFCC99-B918-4E60-8243-E56974B396BE-2563-000004400BB299FF_zps7492925a.jpg)

What have I done wrong?

I am not familiar with these rearsets, but it looks to me like the bolt sleeve on the outside of the rearset needs to be on the inside of the rearset (between the rearset and the tab welded to the frame) as this will move it out off the frame.

This should clear up your clearance issues and move the gear change linkage out too.

And should be more comfortable.

Anyway - just my two cents worth...

Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 15, 2013, 07:10:32
There's only 1 of those sleeves and I assume it acts as a stop for the lever coming up too far. You make a good point though, I could add a spacer behind each of the bolts to bring it out 6mm or so.

Thought I might have put it all together incorrectly.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: maduncle on Feb 15, 2013, 07:12:25
There's only 1 of those sleeves and I assume it acts as a stop for the lever coming up too far. You make a good point though, I could add a spacer behind each of the bolts to bring it out 6mm or so.

Thought I might have put it all together incorrectly.

Sounds like you put it all together right - but yes you might need to space the rearsets out off the tabs to get the clearance you need.

Great rearsets though, are they universal or model specific?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 15, 2013, 07:14:27
They came with a spacer behind the bolts but its not done the job. Still convinced I've done something wrong.

They are a 400F specific model made by a chap in South Africa by the name of Kevin. Runs a store called TTR400 and makes amazing custom CB350/400 parts.

Edit: I emailed Kevin to work out the best fix. Pretty sure I've done something wrong like fixing them too low but fingers crossed he can point me in the right direction.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 15, 2013, 08:59:43
Kevin got back to me already, top chap! Looks like these Hondas have some frame variation leading to my issues. I'm going to space the rearsets out approx 6mm with some spacers which should fix it up perfectly.

Might need some tweaking of the pivot on the inside to give it some clearance against the frame too but then we should be good to rock and roll.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Feb 15, 2013, 12:28:54
I wouldn't space out the rearset, I would shorten the spacer stack on linkage bolt, it should work better as you won't have so much leverage on a shorter bolt.
 Use spacer on brake pedal to move entire linkage 'inboard'
It will also move it 'inside' frame' (maybe?)
It isn't obvious from my pic but 360 has a 'flattened out'  'Z' shaped link and the mounting on pedal and actuator are 'twisted' about 10 degrees
 Spacer looks like it should fit on left side to 'take up slack' on engine bolt?
I would fit stop on rearmost bolt to prevent pedal coming up too far (or 'hidden' on inside of frame
TTR stuff should look good, that 'lump' sticking out just doesn't look right
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 26, 2013, 05:17:53
I've got a few parts that have come in but will detail them when I get back into the shed.

Quick question about cam chains. Bought one and now thinking I have have ordered wrong. Anyone care to set me straight?

This is the description off eBay, will this work in my '76 CB400F Super Sport?

"GENUINE JAPANESE DID CAM CHAIN TO SUIT THE HONDA CB400 F1 & F2 FOURS FROM 1975 UP TO 1979.
THIS CHAIN WILL ALSO FIT THE FOLLOWING

  THE HONDA CB175 TWIN 1974-1976 & THE CD175 TWIN FROM 1971-1978.

CHAIN SPEC IS TYPE 219T ENDLESS WITH 82 LINKS, IF YOU REQUIRE A RIVET LINK FOR THIS JUST PAY £1.00 MORE & WE WILL SUPPLY THE 219T DID RIVET LINK WITH YOUR PURCHASE."
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Evil August on Feb 26, 2013, 13:52:13
Have you messed with your rearsets anymore?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Feb 26, 2013, 14:30:09
I've got a few parts that have come in but will detail them when I get back into the shed.

Quick question about cam chains. Bought one and now thinking I have have ordered wrong. Anyone care to set me straight?

This is the description off eBay, will this work in my '76 CB400F Super Sport?

"GENUINE JAPANESE DID CAM CHAIN TO SUIT THE HONDA CB400 F1 & F2 FOURS FROM 1975 UP TO 1979.
THIS CHAIN WILL ALSO FIT THE FOLLOWING

  THE HONDA CB175 TWIN 1974-1976 & THE CD175 TWIN FROM 1971-1978.

CHAIN SPEC IS TYPE 219T ENDLESS WITH 82 LINKS, IF YOU REQUIRE A RIVET LINK FOR THIS JUST PAY £1.00 MORE & WE WILL SUPPLY THE 219T DID RIVET LINK WITH YOUR PURCHASE."

Did you get rivet as well?
219 is pitch between pins and width, 350 is same as 400f
 I use CB750/CB350 length and shorten it for 360
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Feb 26, 2013, 17:25:21
Have you messed with your rearsets anymore?

Not yet, been away for work but I think the plan is going to be slightly space the rearsets on the mounts and do the same with the linkage too.

Did you get rivet as well?
219 is pitch between pins and width, 350 is same as 400f
 I use CB750/CB350 length and shorten it for 360

No rivet. The motor is split so I was hoping not to use one. Worst case I get a link.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Feb 27, 2013, 03:17:11
With motor split you shouldn't nee a rivet link, I like to get them when they are that cheap though  ;D
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 02, 2013, 01:00:48
It's been ages since I got my work done on the bike. Today was a great day to get back in to it. Today's plan was to finally finish the carbs, I had ordered in some hole punches and felt so I could make some replacement felt washers for the ones missing on the slide linkage and choke holes. It worked very well:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/16292065-DDDD-45C3-800E-A961A979C209-1094-0000016B56E296AC_zpsfbc5aaca.jpg)

Next up I made a float tool, set to 24mm (+2mm on stock) based on PJ's recommendations. The floats were all over the place height wise so it good to get them lined up:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/116637E3-5FB4-4876-8DB9-5E72FC0E9810-1094-0000016B4EDACB46_zps8ae3d692.jpg)

Finally I put all the carbs back together with all fresh parts, managed to find some rubber tube for the vent linkage so its all ready to rock and roll. Once all together I bench synced the slides using a bit of wire and set the max slide height. All ready to go:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/A9EF95CF-35B5-480F-B183-3FB59B8BD76E-1094-0000016B5C1E09D8_zps5b396279.jpg)

Also received another batch of parts this week, oil filter, rear brake switch, horn and LED switch. All in preparation for finishing off the wiring:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/595CE973-168C-41B9-B7D7-EC545F9412BB-1094-0000016B65C35958_zpsdcb1642a.jpg)

Lastly I started running wires for the custom loom, turns out I have to redo the fuse box wires as I didn't make it long enough to fit under the seat. Of well, this time I'm going to run wires and leave a bit of excess so I've got safety margin:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/3DA811D8-F22C-4C63-98B8-566E54423D12-1094-0000016B6CEF901A_zps9c4a9657.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/8D2AE7C9-4080-456C-8E49-D4166B2DDDD1-1094-0000016B7372CB2E_zps81d62889.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Mar 02, 2013, 01:23:37
Gotta love it when you can see things taking shape  8)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 02, 2013, 01:41:08
Gotta love it when you can see things taking shape  8)

You betcha! Still a looooooong way to go though.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Mar 02, 2013, 02:51:35

Quote
Quote from: andycafe on January 10, 2012, 04:58:51 pm

Hey, nice build........


Posted by: neevo: January 10, 2012, 06:10:09 pm »

You've seen my pile of crap haven't you?
Motor farked! Frame farked!

Hey, Nice build  ;D I know I went early, still love your build though mate 8)



Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 02, 2013, 03:30:48
Hey, Nice build  ;D I know I went early, still love your build though mate 8)

Early adopter Andy! You're one of the cool kids, probably using Twitter in 2001 weren't you ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Mar 02, 2013, 04:19:10
Early adopter Andy! You're one of the cool kids, probably using Twitter in 2001 weren't you ;)

Ah haha  ;D Never used twitter, phones are for making calls  ;)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 03, 2013, 04:37:13
Lazy Sunday in the shed working with wires. I'm finding it quite therapeutic although crimping the tiny connectors can be a bit of a bitch. Need to get me some replacements as I buggered a few up.

I am crimping and soldering all joints and using shrink wrap on mid wire joints. Hopefully that keeps it in top nick.

Currently done the ignition circuit up to the RFID, still a way to go.

The bench with the laptop for the diagram, nearly makes me look like a pro:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/4283CAED-3D44-4AEB-9C95-BF5ED62D4C24-1975-000002016E3D54B1_zpsc045ad7d.jpg)

And this is where I am up to on the bike:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/4314CE8C-C383-48B4-9985-4B12F5836B26-1975-0000020174AEF47B_zpsf377f889.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/91741733-290A-4288-876F-501D489A0BFA-1975-00000201A018F1E0_zps160e8961.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: maduncle on Mar 03, 2013, 04:38:33
Ah haha  ;D Never used twitter, phones are for making calls  ;)

They make calls?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 03, 2013, 04:41:02
They make calls?

Yeah, god knows. I thought they were for forums and porn!!!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: maduncle on Mar 03, 2013, 06:16:52
Yeah, god knows. I thought they were for forums and porn!!!

Oh,

They're not just for porn?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MotorbikeBruno on Mar 03, 2013, 11:42:52
Hell Yeah NEEVO!  Keep it up. I'm going over my wheels at the moment, then back to the engine.  I can't wait to hear yours!
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 03, 2013, 18:11:40
Motor last for me, except for the final finish stuff (like paint) as its got quite a bit of work to do in it. Should have the loom finished in a week or two, then the swingarm loop bent ready to install the shock. That will give me a roller with electrics which may mean in ready to start the final stretch... the power plant!

I plan on running the bike a bit in a non finished form so I can properly shake down prior to doing all the fancy/pretty stuff.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MotorbikeBruno on Mar 04, 2013, 14:25:58
Motor last for me, except for the final finish stuff (like paint) as its got quite a bit of work to do in it. Should have the loom finished in a week or two, then the swingarm loop bent ready to install the shock. That will give me a roller with electrics which may mean in ready to start the final stretch... the power plant!

I plan on running the bike a bit in a non finished form so I can properly shake down prior to doing all the fancy/pretty stuff.

Haha, we did it opposite of eachother. I've got the motor all ready to go (other than painting/polishing a few covers).  Your way might have been better now that I look at it....haha  :D
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 04, 2013, 19:03:28
Haha, we did it opposite of eachother. I've got the motor all ready to go (other than painting/polishing a few covers).  Your way might have been better now that I look at it....haha  :D

I only did it so I could sit on the bike and make vroom vroom noises, instead of having a running engine and a pile of parts ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Frankenfe on Mar 04, 2013, 19:40:48
I only did it so I could sit on the bike and make vroom vroom noises, instead of having a running engine and a pile of parts ;)

Sorry to tell you this but it sounds like you already have a problem with your engine, it's suppose to be ...vrooOOM.. chikuk.. vrooOOOM.. chikuk.. vroooOOOM.. chikuk..
You get the idea..
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 04, 2013, 20:49:22
Sorry to tell you this but it sounds like you already have a problem with your engine, it's suppose to be ...vrooOOM.. chikuk.. vrooOOOM.. chikuk.. vroooOOOM.. chikuk..
You get the idea..

Are you serious?!?!?!?!?

I've not even put it together and its buggered, what the hell could be wrong with it? Pretty sure there was minor thingumy scoring but I thought a beefed up whatsit would compensate for that.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Mar 04, 2013, 21:03:25
Stop playing on computer and get back to work yer slacker  ;D ;D
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 04, 2013, 22:24:49
Stop playing on computer and get back to work yer slacker  ;D ;D

Work work? Or bike work ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Mar 04, 2013, 23:27:36
Bike work, is there any other type?  ;D
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MotorbikeBruno on Mar 05, 2013, 10:27:16
Bike work, is there any other type?  ;D

For us? Not really... :o ;D
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 07, 2013, 05:57:04
Just bought a DID cam chain off eBay. Reputable seller however I've got minor concerns about how new the item is despite being sold as new.

The item didn't come in DID packaging and there seems to be some red/dark grease on the chain, although no noticeable signs of use.

What should I check for to make sure it in good nick, don't really mind if I is used, as long as its in great condition.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Mar 07, 2013, 15:51:50
I've got a brand new DID I'll check later
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MotorbikeBruno on Mar 07, 2013, 19:58:34
My heavy-duty non-oring chain came like that, however it WAS in original packaging etc.  Just an odd grease color I suppose...
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Frankenfe on Mar 07, 2013, 20:20:03
My heavy-duty non-oring chain came like that, however it WAS in original packaging etc.  Just an odd grease color I suppose...

Same..
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 07, 2013, 20:21:04
Excellent, makes me feel better. At first I thought it was rust/gunk but the pins are spotless.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 09, 2013, 21:59:26
Getting stuck in to the wiring today, should have it finished soon :D

Quick question about the rectifier that is in between the neutral switch and starter solenoid. What is this exactly and are there newer versions available?

I assume its a diode of some sort. Anyone show me a modern equivilent to use?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 09, 2013, 23:47:11
Popped over to see my bud Darren at DNA Customs yesterday to see how we can get the rearsets working properly.

Tried a multitude of alternative options and in the end settled on spacing them out 15mm and fixing the connecting rods in the linkage:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/ED493915-8381-4E92-8888-EDE4519356FC-293-00000022786367F8_zps19983e57.jpg)

New beefier connecting tubes take up the extra width and should help stop any twisting:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/3A58932D-2F3B-444D-A61D-45715CA6EFC5-293-00000022867E5441_zps88abaf6a.jpg)

The lever now clears the rear brake pivot mount:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/D8B66A10-7A8E-40F1-9DDC-A8A166991271-293-000000228B4242D5_zps05dc4c4a.jpg)

Also fixed the brake pivot clearance issue by flipping it around.

Darren is also making up a custom button holder that will slot seamlessly into the old GSXR ignition hole. Can't wait to see it finished as I think its going to look super clean.

Also spent today finishing up the wiring. 90% complete now but ran out of wire and need a couple more connectors. Should have it finished next week ready for testing. Progress shots:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/2A58716B-8804-4804-BA13-8D7DDC09DCE3-293-00000024743FEADA_zps6c1121af.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/5E2F64EE-9B4C-4320-AE7B-644D78B6BD77-293-000000247938F7BC_zpscc9cdb7e.jpg)

And this is where I finished up this afternoon:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/74B441D2-B03D-4419-B64E-E7AB5ACFDD59-293-00000028156F69AE_zpsd81f5a2f.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/93205E67-0D53-4396-9920-1B5FF63D61E2-293-0000002495460711_zps853b38ae.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/3FF07351-9597-4C35-8AB5-B10905C1C739-293-000000249A13D027_zps9b271d95.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/E06E0F77-14D7-45FA-871F-CC6750FD0613-293-000000249E7A50EA_zps1a5c4f8b.jpg)
Title: Re: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Evil August on Mar 10, 2013, 10:40:41
Getting stuck in to the wiring today, should have it finished soon :D

Quick question about the rectifier that is in between the neutral switch and starter solenoid. What is this exactly and are there newer versions available?

I assume its a diode of some sort. Anyone show me a modern equivilent to use?

I have a rectifier/regulator combo unit made, I think, by Electrosport. I purchased it from DCC.

http://www.dimecitycycles.com/vintage-cafe-racer-caferacer-bobber-brat-chopper-custom-motorcycle-electronics-parts-honda-cb350f-cb400f-cb500-cb550-cb750-rectifier-864218.html

These new ones are supposed to keep voltage a bit lower than the stock regulator saving your fancy battery if that is what you have.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 10, 2013, 17:00:39
Wrong bit Evil. I've got a modern rec/reg coming for the bike but the one I was referring to is in the clutch wiring.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Frankenfe on Mar 10, 2013, 18:21:22
Getting stuck in to the wiring today, should have it finished soon :D

Quick question about the rectifier that is in between the neutral switch and starter solenoid. What is this exactly and are there newer versions available?

I assume its a diode of some sort. Anyone show me a modern equivilent to use?

Call me confused, but you refer to both the "Neutral Switch" and the "Clutch Wiring" ..2 different things. Both are "Safety" features.

The Neutral Safety Switch is a simple button in the tranny case that detects the tranny is in neutral and completes a "grounding" circuit to illuminate the green "Neutral" light. AKA "Idiot Light" (No Rectifier that I can see in that circuit on the Wiring Diagram)

The Clutch Safety Switch is another simple button that detects if the clutch lever is pulled so in case you didn't see or heed the warning of the neutral light avoid, the starter being used with the bike in gear. It "Breaks" or "Opens" the starter button relay circuit so that the starter can not be run unless the clutch lever is pulled.

Maybe it would help me to explain the problem you are having or what your goal is. I assume you have a problem that you believe is this "Rectifier".


Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 10, 2013, 18:57:59
I may be wrong Frankenfe as I don't have the wiring diagram on me, but on the 400F the clutch switch and neutral switch are both connected on the ground side of the starter solenoid.

I assume as safety features, so you can't start the bike unless its in neutral or you've pulled the clutch in.

However on the connection between both there is a "rectifier" (that's what it's called on my Haynes manual). It's a small piece that looks like a single blade fuse holder. On the diagram its got a triangle in it, as if to symbolize its a diode. I would assume its to stop back flow of current but really I have no idea!

Looking to replace it with a new one as the old one is pretty ratty. So I need to know what it is and what would be a suitable replacement.

Does that make sense?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Mar 10, 2013, 19:01:48
Yep, it's a diode
Honda called it a 'logic circuit' when it was introduced
The diode should be easily available, AFAIK they were used on most Honda and Suzuki (probably Yamaha and Kawasaki as well?)  before fuel injection with gear position switches
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 10, 2013, 19:05:24
Yep, it's a diode
Honda called it a 'logic circuit' when it was introduced
The diode should be easily available, AFAIK they were used on most Honda and Suzuki (probably Yamaha and Kawasaki as well?)  before fuel injection with gear position switches

Why is it needed? I'm trying to figure out when current would go back up it!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Frankenfe on Mar 10, 2013, 19:19:04
I may be wrong Frankenfe as I don't have the wiring diagram on me, but on the 400F the clutch switch and neutral switch are both connected on the ground side of the starter solenoid.

I assume as safety features, so you can't start the bike unless its in neutral or you've pulled the clutch in.

However on the connection between both there is a "rectifier" (that's what it's called on my Haynes manual). It's a small piece that looks like a single blade fuse holder. On the diagram its got a triangle in it, as if to symbolize its a diode. I would assume its to stop back flow of current but really I have no idea!

Looking to replace it with a new one as the old one is pretty ratty. So I need to know what it is and what would be a suitable replacement.

Does that make sense?

"Sense" is relative ...Right"Crazy" PJ..

Sounds like you guys are on your way to solving your quest. I assumed it was more of a "is this necessary, can I get rid of it" kinda question since that seems to be the direction most are going ...when you start talking replacement of a part like it, that can be "Looped-Dooped or Deleted" ... and is functional but "ratty" ...ya loose me...If it's functional & you want to keep it ..call it Patina like the rest of us and move on......lol.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 10, 2013, 19:29:13
If it's functional & you want to keep it ..call it Patina like the rest of us and move on......lol.

I have a problem with that ;) for some reason cannot leave old dodgy looking bits on the bike. I may have to default to using it though, found something on eBay but the price is silly for second hand still:

http://bit.ly/YURBtj

Will keep looking.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: hillsy on Mar 10, 2013, 19:57:17
If it were mine I would do away with the safety switches (neutral, clutch). They are overkill IMO.
 
Any anyway - it's something else to "go wrong" and leave you stranded on the side of the road scratching your head.....
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 10, 2013, 19:59:31
If it were mine I would do away with the safety switches (neutral, clutch). They are overkill IMO.
 
Any anyway - it's something else to "go wrong" and leave you stranded on the side of the road scratching your head.....

Only reason I kept it was I heard it may be a requirement to get the bike registered. Didn't want to wire it all up and find I had to strip it back down again because it got trimmed out. Safety on both counts ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: hillsy on Mar 10, 2013, 20:03:19
As far as that goes you only need a functional kill switch that can be operated without your hands leaving the bars (well, that's the requirements in QLD anyway).
 
I doubt if anyone is going to fail you on that one - if they question you just tell them they didn't have those wiz-bang gizmos back in the 70's.......
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: Frankenfe on Mar 10, 2013, 21:05:23
I have a problem with that ;) for some reason cannot leave old dodgy looking bits on the bike. I may have to default to using it though, found something on eBay but the price is silly for second hand still:

http://bit.ly/YURBtj

Will keep looking.

You might be able to buy an "Electrical Components lot" or complete used wiring harness with a decent one on it, cheaper than the diode alone ...I agree stupid $ for it alone.

Paint It? Shrink Tube it? how "Dodgy" is this thing? Doesn't a rubber holder cover most of it anyways?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 10, 2013, 21:32:45
Turns out they are still available from CMSL ( 93 & 98 ), $24 plus shipping though:

(http://images.cmsnl.com/img/partslists/honda-cb400f-general-export-kph-frame-group-1g-1h-2g-2h_bigma000080f01-3_0e31.gif)

Might see if I can tidy up the original instead. How would I go about testing it to see if it works? I assume check resistance in both directions, one will be infinity the other 0?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 10, 2013, 23:52:43
Also a question on the headlight wiring. I have the headlight connected to the run switch so that hopefully its only really operated with the motor running.

The headlight has a smaller bulb holder (with no bulb in it currently), is it customary to have a small low wattage bulb in this as a side light for when the ignition is live?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: hillsy on Mar 10, 2013, 23:54:31
That smaller bulb is a park light. Comes on with the tail light when the ignition is turned to park.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 10, 2013, 23:55:32
That smaller bulb is a park light. Comes on with the tail light when the ignition is turned to park.

Thought so, I will grab something for that then. What fitting is it?
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Mar 11, 2013, 00:14:26
I can't remember but I think the diode prevents grounding if it isn't in neutral until you pullclutch in.
 I haven't done Honda electrical course since 1980
 Found this on SOHC4.net
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=69712.0
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 11, 2013, 00:19:28
I can't remember but I think the diode prevents grounding if it isn't in neutral until you pullclutch in.
 I haven't done Honda electrical course since 1980

I thought that the neutral switch was grounded only if in neutral hence the diode isn't really required. Funnily enough I just looked in a 350-400 service manual and the diode isn't on any of the circuits. Maybe it was a different year thing.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: hillsy on Mar 11, 2013, 00:19:51
Pretty sure the bulb is a G6 - single contact bayonet.
 
You should be able to pick one up at any auto store (they normally have a wall mounted display cabinet with all the different bulbs inside).
 
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 11, 2013, 00:21:26
Pretty sure the bulb is a G6 - single contact bayonet.
 
You should be able to pick one up at any auto store (they normally have a wall mounted display cabinet with all the different bulbs inside).

Thanks hillsy. I need the connector too with the rubber boot as my headlight only has the hole at the moment.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 12, 2013, 06:04:22
Bought last of the electrical bits yesterday so I should have the harness ready to rock and roll by the end of this weekend. Also excited to receive my hugger from a breakers in the UK via the power of eBay. It's from an Aprillia RD125 and looks like it might work ok:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/16A74942-0ED1-4B17-B6D9-9743C2ADA0A0-2072-00000176233C99B7_zps9c14111a.jpg)

Couldn't resist getting into the shed and test fitting the hugger. Turns out the original mounts aren't going to work as they are asymmetrical. A quick go with the grinder, a tidy up on the belt sander and its much closer:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/778106A4-391C-46A0-B8A0-C7E754CB4D4B-2072-000001762934438E_zps63139387.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/3D95B47F-14F1-424B-BE99-0C9B18C1B90E-2072-000001762E722B25_zpsd6223f4e.jpg)

It's still not perfect, I've got to take a bit more material off the front edge to address the angle it sits on the swingarm but I'm quietly confident its going to sit well and also fit within the swingarm brace.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 12, 2013, 06:38:40
Also just pulled the diode (logic circuit) off the old loom with a view to using it on the new wiring, simply because a new one is a fortune and simply not worth it. The logic circuit sits on the earth side of the starter solenoid and I assume stops bleed between the neutral and clutch switches. This is a safety feature to stop you starting the bike in gear and something I kept (despite being a complicated circuit) just in case it was required for a roadworthy certificate. The original had a pleasant surprise, it came with a rubber mount which will work really well to create a mount on the battery box:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/58648F1C-FAA1-4675-B9D1-3493D81F5DC8-2134-000001811A46134A_zps86f20e07.jpg)

A little scrub with the kitchen sponge ;) and it came up pretty nice:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/0F79F182-A18C-4B13-9363-558B3371BD24-2134-000001811F412C1F_zps87909912.jpg)

Thought I would grab the tester and see if it actually worked. First try was resistance and it turned up nothing in either polarity... bollox!

Then I noticed a diode symbol on the tester:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/C2CBF0B5-FD04-4953-997A-29F5BB9A63C9-2134-00000181230C4A2E_zpsc8cfeac8.jpg)

A quick test, nothing! Swapped the polarity and:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/953F2E28-935B-413C-AB41-767C7EBC538D-2134-0000018126AA5734_zps994aae6a.jpg)

I'm assuming this means its working fine!!!
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 15, 2013, 00:43:30
Just pulled the trigger on the latest big purchase. Not only is the item top shelf but the people involved are top shelf too. It represents a big milestone in the build:

(http://www.karori.com.au/files/hogget%20ram%202.JPG)(http://blogs.studentlife.utoronto.ca/lifeatuoft/files/2012/10/shock1.jpg)

It's on its way as I've just received notification from FedEx. Exciting updates soon...
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: andycafe on Mar 15, 2013, 21:57:12
.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 15, 2013, 22:18:04
Upgrading the rear suspension Neevo?

Crazy
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 15, 2013, 23:49:02
Upgrading the rear suspension Neevo?

Crazy

Ahhhhhh ;)
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 16, 2013, 00:21:19
Went and picked up some bits from my bud Darren at DNA Customs, the remainder of the rearset spacers and a custom button holder I'd had made to accommodate the wireless ignition switch button. In the end it worked out beautifully and should look pretty factory once complete.

Already testing some of the wiring as I'm planning on running the LEDs in the switch as an indicator the RFID has been activated and also when the ignition is active. Seems to be working ok.

Gratuitous pics:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/50EAC58C-E881-44B7-AC4A-53DFFE25DB80-3288-00000262628DD4C6_zps9b3fa84c.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/F14D6B66-2AC0-4138-AC44-218E39D5F584-3288-00000262693ED451_zps5573c604.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/49CC9A0A-89CB-459C-86EA-2BC57578596E-3288-000002626EE0503D_zps8fe50f90.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/E79AA27A-AB95-4410-A517-BF4EFBAAC219-3288-0000026273B7702A_zps71ba195d.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/D2E6D9D9-92C3-4755-ADF3-588F27350911-3288-000002627D752119_zps4a8f41f2.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/9C62BA66-54E8-4D54-9C1A-B458AA82931D-3288-00000262839297F2_zpsb1c944a7.jpg)

And of course one on the bike. I will grab a video of it all working when I finally get the wiring finished:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/A1D7A91B-3FC0-4EA2-B959-2A287B1BCFBF-3288-0000026289D2990D_zpsbfefdf67.jpg)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: MotorbikeBruno on Mar 16, 2013, 10:18:06
That's sick man.  I really like that.  So well made....
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: maduncle on Mar 16, 2013, 18:14:02
Yep - love the switch, a real pro job.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 16, 2013, 18:21:53
That's sick man.  I really like that.  So well made....

Yep - love the switch, a real pro job.

The joys of owning a CNC. I gave some design direction but Darren did the rest, there are some sweet little touches like slightly recessing the button and the sweeping bottom mount. I'm quite pleased with how its turned out!
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: crazypj on Mar 16, 2013, 20:25:08
Damn cool, glad you found someone willing to make pieces
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ronnie on Mar 17, 2013, 02:05:42
Looks great man! I have a spot on my CBR1000 triple, hopefully it comes out as clean and professional as yours! Can you take a few shots of your grips in total view and a side shot of that frontend? I really like those blue fork tops man.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 17, 2013, 02:08:46
So I think I have a problem with my electrics. Finishing up and doing some testing and had an issue with the RFID.

I've run a power feed in line with the RFID's LED (the one to show it functional), problem is I think its run power back into the RFID and now its not working (bugger)!

Should be a simple fix as I will just run some diodes to stop any current leakage back up into the RFID. Fingers crossed.

I do have another problem that I'm not sure how to fix though. To stop the RFID running a parasitic draw on the battery I've put a simple switch in line with its power feed. Problem is that when the switch gets turned back on it seems to send a pulse to the relay (probably because the circuitry is a bit basic) turning it on.

This is less than ideal as simple turning power on for the RFID essentially powers up the bike without having to use the key fob.

Anyone got some thoughts on how to fix this?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 17, 2013, 07:22:34
So I've bought another RFID, assuming I've blown the one here up by pushing voltage back into it.

I have some ideas of how to manage this problem with the new one (eg using a frame earth as opposed to the LED return wire in the RFID, which should stop any excess voltage going back into the RFID. I'm also keen to put a diode on the LED line out too, should I just solder one in or is there a more suitable option, like a LED I can wire in line?

Still no idea how to stop the RFID triggering the relay when I switch the power back on though :(
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ronnie on Mar 17, 2013, 12:24:07
I know this may sounds dumb, but is that push button insulated inside that metal housing? If not you could be getting that voltage back through the ground from the switch LED.. Just a thought. And for the relay, what happens when you put the switch on the ground of the unit instead of the + wire? As in the switch would cut the ground as opposed to the power lead.. I know this isn't ideal but maybe worth a shot?
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 17, 2013, 19:03:05
Ronnie I'm pretty sure there isn't a problem with the switch grounding on the housing, I think the problem there was the fact I wired a second 12v feed onto the RFID led wire. I'm going to remove that altogether for the new RFID to save blowing another one up.

With the power switch, do you think switching the negative would do anything? I thought about it but didn't think it would make a difference.

The switch is also connected to the relay so I might check if switching only the RFID makes a difference too.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ronnie on Mar 17, 2013, 19:46:46
Oh alright well that's good then..

Well it's always worth a try.. But if you are just trying to stop a parasitic drain of the battery you really just need a switch on the battery. So the switch shouldn't be after the relay it should be before. The switch should be the first thing the positive lead of the battery should hit that way you know everything is off. Not sure if that was the issue but that's how I do it on everything from simple DC chest radio to a batteries on a boat.

And if somehow its not the switch but the RFID unit itself that turns on when it initially gets power(think a car radio how it turns on when you hook a battery to it) then you shouldn't worry too much about it since this switch will be for storage purposes only and once you turn it on and go through the regular RFID motions it will be normal after that. Does that make any sense? I'm just looking at it from a logical point of view because I frankly have no idea of how the RFID works since I dont have one yet..
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 17, 2013, 19:57:19
Ronnie the RFID is basically a receiver for a wireless key fob, you swipe the fob and the RFID triggers a relay by sending a small low voltage pulse.

The problem I have is that turning the RFID back on with a switch seems to also send a pulse to the relay (as I assume the circuits are not very well insulated from each other) causing it to activate the relay.

A sophisticated wireless ignition with unique key fobs, foiled by flicking a switch ;)
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ronnie on Mar 17, 2013, 20:49:03
Well if that is the case, when you flip the switch on you can start the bike without using the fob? Am I getting this right? And if so, does turning the engine off and swiping the fob turn the RFID off/shut current to the relay and now you can't start the engine?

If all of that is true, i would say if the problem can't be fixed I would just leave it. I mean you're only turning the bike off completely for storage so any other time the switch is on the RFID works properly, its just that first one time. Could just be how the RFID unit is set up...:/
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 17, 2013, 21:20:55
Yeah you've got it Ronnie. I may take the switch out as if someone found it they could get the bike live by flicking it.

Worst case when I park the bike up for storage I can remove the RFID fuse. That way there is no switch to muck around with the relay/ignition.
Title: Re: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: ronnie on Mar 17, 2013, 21:51:10
There you go! Yea I would rather go through the hassle of taking the fuse out after the season is over than having someone flick that switch and realize it's capable of starting! Cool man, roll with it!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 18, 2013, 03:58:18
You've sold me Ronnie.
Title: Down under, an idiot and a 400F
Post by: neevo on Mar 18, 2013, 04:02:21
Exciting day in the house today as mr postman delivered a much anticipated piece of the puzzle:

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/003BDC9F-07F5-4939-8135-4BE8900F2F3E-4892-00000456780BEA63_zps8db397ab.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/4E5F32F9-19D6-4212-88E9-EAC84DD98EC2-4892-000004567F3C9109_zpsd380de28.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/F8CE7EB1-DEEA-44C5-8F7F-0AB21D5015F3-4892-0000045684213E96_zps41899e43.jpg)

A big thanks to the chaps at Realm and Beachcomber, truly wonderful gents and deliver a superb product. It took a little while (3-4 weeks, but quality is worth waiting for), turns out the horrible weather in the UK took Realms roof off their factory :o

I was initially looking at a Hagon shock but went with this for a few reasons:

1. The shock body is alloy vs steel
2. Adjustable damping control
3. Fantastic customer service
4. Fully custom length and spring rate

In the end I'm not disappointed and cannot wait to get it mounted.