DO THE TON

Blood Sweat Tears and Grease => Projects => Cafe Racers => Topic started by: thrillseeker on Dec 28, 2012, 20:16:00

Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Dec 28, 2012, 20:16:00
Been workin on this bike for a little while and keep getting deeper and deeper into it so I decided I might as well start a thread on it. I bought this bike about 6 months ago bone stock and in great condition. but knowing me, I can't keep my hands off my toys so I've been learning how to work on it bit by bit. It's my first motorcycle project so I'm not biting off more than I can chew at any given time.

How it looked when I bought it:


Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Dec 28, 2012, 20:22:40
The spokes were pretty rusty so I cleaned them up a bit with some sandpaper and paint.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/12/29/gadada5y.jpg)
Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Dec 28, 2012, 20:30:42
The front brakes were dragging so I rebuilt them. Holy corrosion, batman.


Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: edukaycheon on Dec 28, 2012, 21:13:36
Looks pretty clean to start with. I like the cherry red, and everyone knows red is faster too
Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Dec 28, 2012, 23:06:21
Been having problems with the electric start and after some research came to the conclusion it's the starter clutch. Instead of paying the $11 for a flywheel puller, I found out the correct size and thread of the bolt and headed to the hardware store. Bought a $5 bolt, got home, cranked on it with my new impact driver I got for Christmas and poof. Rotor popped right off. The size of the bolt is 16mm x 1.5 if anyone needs to know. Also upon inspection, found a puncture in the starter clutch so I guess I need to sort out a new one. Any suggestions?

Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: Worst cb650 ever on Dec 28, 2012, 23:42:27
I think that a CB350 starter clutch is the same thing - I'm in the same situation with my 360, starter motor spins, engine doesn't.  You might have better luck finding 350 parts than 360 parts, but do double check that I'm not talking out my ass here.
Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Dec 29, 2012, 09:40:01
Just scored a set of woodcraft clipons so over the past couple days I was able to put them on. After some thoughts of minimizing the handlebar controls, I came to the decision of keeping the stock controls so I had to make templates of the wire openings on the 360 bars and transfer that to the woodcraft bars. I was hesitant to cut them up but it turned out pretty nice considering I only have a drill and a deemed to work with. Now that the bars are on, I have an issue I overlooked. All my cables are now too long and I need to either shorten them or get new ones. I've never worked with custom cables so I'm looking for any recommendations on what I should do. I'm sure everyone else with lower bars runs into the same problem so there's gotta be a relatively straight-forward solution? Also, don't pay attention to the elephant-sized turn signals, they're on the list. Haven't decided if I want to replace them or just cut down the bars to bring em in tighter though. If I replace them, I want to make sure I pass inspection so the new ones will have to be bright. If anyone has any suggestions for decent turn signals I'm all ears.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: BigKev on Dec 29, 2012, 20:21:01
Dang thats a really clean bike. I like it.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: ridesolo on Dec 29, 2012, 22:48:19
I'm removing the starter from my 360 and going kick-only. I hadn't planned to bother removing  the clutch unit, but I could do so if you aren't able to come across another. The bike is currently at my friend's place, about 45 minutes away, but I'll get over there again soon... give me a holler if you can't get hands on one. 

Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Dec 30, 2012, 11:03:57
Thanks for the offer ridesolo. If I can't find a decent one I just may take you up on that offer. I wonder how much benefit you'd get removing that extra rotational weight from the crank?

I found one on eBay for an okay price but it looks like the springs are bent a little bit at the ends. Does this look okay or should I keep looking? I wonder if honda sells the springs separately? Although, I did read about someone who has used springs from a pen with good results. Maybe I'll consider that as an option as well.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1974-HONDA-CB360-CB-360-starter-clutch-assembly-/310546924918?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item484e0a0576&vxp=mtr


Edit:
Just found this starter clutch repair kit as well. Looks like nice new equipment.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CB160-CB175-CB200-CMX250-Rebel-CB350F-Starter-Clutch-Repair-Kit-91101-253-020A-/380519820671?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5898bfad7f&vxp=mtr
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: ridesolo on Dec 30, 2012, 13:50:37
Thanks for the offer ridesolo. If I can't find a decent one I just may take you up on that offer. I wonder how much benefit you'd get removing that extra rotational weight from the crank?

Yeah, that's why I originally wasn't going to take the trouble to remove mine, I figured there wouldn't be that much gain for the effort.
Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Dec 30, 2012, 14:02:26
Actually, i was leaning the other direction. Weight off any rotational mass gains you something like 4 times (dont quote my numbers) the benefit than weight taken from anywhere else. So, the 20 minutes it takes to remove the cover and pull the rotor may just be worth it. Im sure someone on here could chime in with any experience they have on the subject.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jan 02, 2013, 17:28:51
since my alternator cover and chain cover are off I decided to clean them up a bit. I started hand sanding the alternator cover but decided that was going to take way too much elbow greese to get right. I had to find a better solution. after looking around I discovered dremel has what they call finishing abrasive buffs. I got a couple sets of them and went to town. holy crap they work well! they easily got rid of any deep corrosion and light scratches made by the sand paper I had used previously. after using 180, 280, and 320 grit, I turned to my polishing wheel on my bench grinder to finish up. all I can say is wow. that was 10 times easier than trying to do it by hand! and it turned out really nice. I'll post up pics when I have time tonight. I forgot to take a before shot but I can take a picture of the other cover for reference.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Feb 08, 2013, 20:44:26
Are the 350 and 360 condensers interchangeable?

http://www.dimecitycycles.com/vintage-cafe-racer-caferacer-bobber-brat-chopper-custom-motorcycle-parts-honda-cb350-cl350-cb450-cl450-condensor-20-1475.html
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 08, 2013, 21:02:14
Almost all condensers are are interchangeable.  They're just a large capacitor.
Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Feb 08, 2013, 21:04:45
Thanks sonreir
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Feb 09, 2013, 12:28:13
After measuring for new cables to work with the clipons, I came up with 3.25" shorter than stock for the throttle cables and 8" shorter for the clutch. Does that sound right? It seems like they would all be around the same amount of change but I'm not sure so I want to check with you guys. The clutch measurement is the one that scares me. But I measured everything twice and moved the bars left and right to accommodate for movement. Thoughts?
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Feb 09, 2013, 14:16:32
I got new coils, wires, and caps on from mikesxs.com (dont leave out the first "s" or you'll get a very different site lol).

They dont mount right up so I got a piece of angle aluminum and used the stock mounting brackets as a template to fab up a little bracket to make them fit. The only issue was figuring out which wires to connect to the stock wiring because they're different colors. A few minutes of looking at the wiring diagram helped. I was able to set the timing yesterday so I guess that means I wired them up correctly. The points were sparking though so I'm assuming that means the condenser isn't working correctly. That's why I asked about the cb350 condenser. The one I have was one I replaced the old one with a month ago but it came in a box of spare parts with the bike so I'm just assuming its bad as well.

Once I get my cables done I should be able to put fluids in and start her up.

(http://www.fluidwebdesign.net/misc/CB360/new-coils-1.JPG)

(http://www.fluidwebdesign.net/misc/CB360/new-coils-2.JPG)

(http://www.fluidwebdesign.net/misc/CB360/new-coils-3.JPG)
Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Mar 12, 2013, 23:09:24
Bike is running strong now with new points, condenser, coils, wires, caps, and plugs. Lesson learned: inspect points closely. They were not obviously corroded on the outside but pitted in the center.
Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Dec 22, 2013, 17:15:45
Working on the bike again since winter is here. Decided to rebuild the air filters since replacements cost $50 each from hondacb360.com and the cv carbs dont like pods. Was able to rebuild them for about $3 in parts. Here are some photos of the process i took.

Cut out the existing filter element:
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/23/jajyje2a.jpg)

Pull apart the filter body:
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/23/equ5esyh.jpg)

Scrape out the remaining gunk. A liberal heat gun is your best friend:
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/23/banybery.jpg)

Get the leftover gunk out. I used a wire wheel on a bench grinder:
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/23/y9utysyh.jpg)

Use some silicone to put the plates, mesh, and boot back together:
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/23/5a7ese6u.jpg)

Clamp and let dry overnight:
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/23/neny2a4u.jpg)

Cut some cotton padding in a strip to use as a filter element. I got this stuff from a local craft store. Think its used inside blankets or something. Also, no need to glue the ends down. The filter housing holds it down nice.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/23/8e4yzyjy.jpg)

Thats it. All done. Now when i need to replace my filter i can just cut another strip of the cotton material i got and swap it out. Easy. Also, no need to glue the filter element down. the housing holds the ends down nice and snug once its on.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/23/y7avy9um.jpg)
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jan 02, 2014, 23:19:47
I plan on getting a smaller 4 cell ballistic battery so I got a new regulator/rectifier combo unit (the kohler unit) from ebay to accommodate it. In order to install the reg/rect I had to figure out how to reconfigure my wiring to accommodate the single unit. Looking at all the wires going to each, it looked a little intimidating. It ended up being easier than I thought. Below is an updated version of the cb360 wiring diagram that shows how I have the bike wired up now. With the new single unit. I also spliced the yellow and white wires coming out of the alternator so the battery is always being charged while the bike is running instead of relying on the lights being on. The best part about all this is removing more wires and parts off the bike that are no longer needed. Please take a look at my diagram and let me know if there are any areas I don't have right. I'm definitely not an electrical engineer so everything I do comes from research online.

[img width= height=]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5240768/Photos/cb360-modified-wiring-diagram.jpg[/img]
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: interceptor on Jan 03, 2014, 06:03:52
Good job on the filters.  How did you conclude that the cotton fiber flows the same as the stock paper element?  Seems like the cotton would be less restrictive and you would/may have to rejet. 
Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jan 03, 2014, 08:23:32
Thanks interceptor.

I used the old "put to mouth and blow through" method. Haha. The cotton does flow much better so I will most likely have to re-jet. I'm swapping exhaust silencers as we'll so I'll have to re-jet anyways, most likely.


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: mrlvlagic on Jan 03, 2014, 09:04:14
looking good im close to the same place on my build
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Mar 26, 2014, 23:21:58
I got a couple things done in the past few weeks...

I did some looking and it seems the green uni filter foam may flow similar to the stock air filters so I got some of that off ebay to replace the cotton I was using. Thanks for putting a bug in my ear interceptor.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5240768/Photos/honda-cb-360/air%20filter%20uni%20foam.JPG)



I also found a set of mufflers I'm very happy with. They're made by Cone Engineering. Very light and sound GREAT! I just have to figure out how I'm going to incorporate a stop for the side and center stand since the new mufflers dont have one like the stock mufflers did. I'm open to ideas! After putting the mufflers on, she's definitely been running rich (obviously) so I got a set of main jets from hondacb360.com and bumped up to a 102.5. I'm hoping that will be good but at least its a starting point.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5240768/Photos/honda-cb-360/cone%20engineering%20mufflers.JPG)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5240768/Photos/honda-cb-360/new%20muffler%20comparison.JPG)
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Mar 26, 2014, 23:54:48
I went for a ride after the regulator/rectifier install and my battery died after about 20 minutes. after some digging I think I may have figured out why it wasnt charging. I had relied on the mounting bolt to ground the unit but its bolted to the battery box. the battery box is bolted to the frame via 3 rubber grommets so I dont think it was getting a proper ground. I ended up utilizing the ground wire that ran to the stock unit and connected that to the mounting bolt. so the new regulator/rectifier unit should be getting a proper ground now. I tested across terminals when the bike was running and it was around 12.5 at idle and higher as revs climbed so it should be working now. Just waiting for the weather to break so I can go for a ride and test out everything I've done recently.
Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Aug 03, 2014, 21:44:28
Charging system is working great now. I ended up going with a GY6 combo regulator/rectifier that I was pointed to on eBay. I also decided it was a good idea to disconnect the battery when hooking up the regulator so it couldn't get fried as I connected each wire. I'm pretty happy with it now. The battery is staying at a consistent 12.4 volts after rides.

I also got sick of my master cylinder leaking so I decided to buy a replacement. I wanted to upgrade if I could so I did a bunch of research and decided on a 2007 CBR RR master cylinder from someone on eBay. I needed to get a mc with separate reservoir so it wouldnt interfere with my clipon brackets. I have to say that this was my best purchase for the bike yet! This mc is much stronger than the cb360 mc. It takes less effort to brake. In addition to the performance, the ability to bleed the brakes from the master cylinder makes brake bleeding a non issue anymore. To top it all off, the levers are adjustable. What a great purchase!!! I highly recommend a cbr mc for anyone else with a vintage cb!

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/08/04/myza6uze.jpg)
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Aug 03, 2014, 22:18:46
So over the past 6 months there has been a sound that sounds like a chain rubbing on metal. It seems to only happen when the bike is in neutral or when moving. And has been progressively worse and worse. I tried to adjust the cam chain tensioner but that didn't seem to do anything. Actually, it may even sound louder now. Any idea what this could be? Could it be that my chain guide is worn down? I just finally got the bike back together and running well so I'd hate to have to take the motor apart again.

update:
I inspected the bike a little closer and it definitely makes a fast ratcheting sound when idling in neutral or when I'm riding. I used a stethoscope to find where the sound is the loudest and its definitely loudest at the end of the kickstarter shaft. could my kickstart ratchet mechanism be getting worn out? There have been a couple times over the past couple years when I'd hear a loud snap when trying to kick start the bike. I worried that something broke but then the bike started right up on the next kick.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Aug 06, 2014, 22:02:43
Here's a video of the sound. you can hear it pretty well.

http://youtu.be/3wmoR7D_AxI
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: OJ on Aug 07, 2014, 23:02:24
Does the ratcheting sound stop if you hold the kick starter to the top of it's travel? to me that sounds like the kick starter gear dragging and I suppose it could be something simple like the return spring not doing it's job or then something wrong with the kick starter gears. Spring should be an easier fix requiring you to remove the right crankcase, but gears themselves would require opening the case.

I'm not an expert, just learning about these beasts, so maybe someone with better knowledge has better tips.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Aug 07, 2014, 23:28:48
The kickstart lever won't go clockwise any further. The spring seems to be working fine. Unfortunately
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: Alexpie on Aug 08, 2014, 02:50:09
Does the sound follow the RPM?
 I had the same problem on my Suzuki and it was the kicker hanging as mentioned in the post previous to yours.
I just loosened the bolt pulled the kicker pedal completely off and re installed it to a few splines back it give it more 'clockwise' travel when in the resting position.   
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Aug 08, 2014, 23:20:19
Thanks Alex. I tried that but it didn't change.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Aug 22, 2014, 00:16:01
I decided I wanted to keep a good eye on my charging system so I did the in-gauge volt meter modification. Should be able to test it out tomorrow

 (http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/08/21/5bf8beab809737a7b6dbeb9dcf81db24.jpg)


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Sep 24, 2014, 17:16:36
I decided I want my speedo back. I don't really like the oe gauges so I got these mini gauges from speed moto. They were the only place I could find the basic gauge in black without all the dummy lights. I lose my volt gauge but that thing's a pos anyways. Not really dependable. So I found myself relying on the multimeter anyways. The charging issue seems to be sorted out now too so I don't really need it anymore.

(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/24/f1af1d14318ce021779c46d5d916dbb6.jpg)


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jun 12, 2015, 23:25:10
I'm pretty sure something internal is messed up with the kick starter so I decided its time to pull the motor apart. Yesterday I had some time and pulled the motor off the frame so I could begin disassembly. Today I was able to get the right side cover off and clutch disassembled. But when I started taking the oil filter off, I realized I needed the special oil filter tool so I stopped there and ordered the part from common motor collective. I also ordered a full engine gasket kit as well as a new timing chain tensioner while I was at it.

While the side cover was off I played around with the kick start lever a bit and was able to replicate a clicking sound. After I took the side cover off the first thing I checked was the return spring. It was in place so that wasnt the issue. I'm not sure if this is a normal behavior or not. Maybe someone here can chime in. After looking at the diagram of the kick start mechanism in the manual, I'm wondering if the gears are touching when they're not supposed to be.

https://youtu.be/eKqD53JxH5E


Here's the video I took a while ago of the buzzing sound thats coming from the clutch while the bike is running.

https://youtu.be/3wmoR7D_AxI
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: advCo on Jun 13, 2015, 01:31:05
Where's the spring on your kickstart shaft? You need to have it installed properly for the kickstart to spring back.

Snap ring could've given out on the internal end of the kickstart shaft as well, disengaging the gears. And pushing a bunch of metal crap into your crankcase.
Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jun 13, 2015, 09:48:45
Sorry I should have stated in my previous post that I took the return spring and snap ring off prior to taking that video. In this picture you can see how the kick start shaft looked after removing the cover. The snap ring is behind the washer. I'll keep an eye out for the internal snap ring when I get this baby apart. Thanks. (http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/13/f3da3fef7099e60f63dd3100137ef6c4.jpg)


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: advCo on Jun 13, 2015, 11:15:55
The internal snap ring is on the very end of the shaft inside and it holds all the components from being pushed off the shaft from the end. When I disassembled mine, the snap ring was floating freely in the channel, not good. They've been known to give out and spew parts into the case. I replaced it with a new one. I bought a pack of 100, so if you find yours is worn and want to replace it let me know.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jun 13, 2015, 11:20:43
Okay great, thank you!


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Jun 13, 2015, 21:05:51
Splitting the case isn't a big deal.
Before I had accident an back got messed up I could do a runner to crank out and back to runner in less than 12hrs (about 6~7 yrs ago  :( )
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jun 13, 2015, 23:53:28
Thanks PJ. I've been doing a decent amount of reading up on it (enough that my fiance is sick of me reading about "motorcycle stuff") and the more I learn the easier it seems. I'm being sure to be extra organized as well. I have pictures and everything I've taken off so far is in marked ziploc bags. I'm eager to get the oil filter wrench so I can get back to it!

I'm going to make sure to check everything I can while I have it open. I did check my oil filter and didn't see much metal in there, so that's good I guess! Any certain things I should give a good look over while I have it apart? I was thinking of:
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: advCo on Jun 14, 2015, 14:15:09
When you split the case, make one of these:

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/14/70efc499b8e29e80ccae9ee7d0ac1d22.jpg)

Makes it easy to keep track of which bolt goes where and you won't have to think about it later.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jun 14, 2015, 14:30:43
Great trick! Thanks!


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jun 14, 2015, 14:37:46
This photo shows my current method of organization. Bag em and tag em.

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/14/097aa252f6eed78b663fbfd45895f096.jpg)


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jun 15, 2015, 00:22:06
Well, I've been going back and forth for the past year about if I want to do a full resto-mod or just tackle things bit by bit. Since I have the engine out, I decided I want to go for it! Some words of wisdom from a friend helped me make the decision as well. So today I stripped the entire bike down to the frame. I bagged everything small and layed out the rest. The only thing I didnt remove was the triple-tree. I want to do a little reading up on that first because I know there are bearings in there and I want to make sure I do it right. I have never stripped anything like this down so far so I must say this was EXTREMELY satisfying. I was very meticulous with labeling wire connections and parts so I feel confident I'll be able to get it back together without too much trouble. I'm sure a couple things will pop up though.  ::)

I also made progress on the engine. I got all the left side bits off. that includes covers, sprocket, and stator rotor. I don't have an electric start so all the bits for that were already gone. Its amazing how simple the left case is when all that electric starter junk is out.  ;D

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5240768/Photos/honda-cb-360/CB360-stripped-down.jpg)
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: advCo on Jun 15, 2015, 11:33:36
You can get new tapered steering stem bearings to replace the old steel ball/race setup. www.allballsracing.com

If you don't want to go that route, be very careful when removing the stem not to lose any of the steel balls, the bottom ones will tend to fall out when you drop the lower triple.

Lots of great info in this post:

http://www.hondatwins.net/forums/51-frame-suspension-steering/9742-cb360-suspension-refurb-planning-execution-pictorial-3.html#post101413
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jun 15, 2015, 23:17:58
Thanks adventurco! I see they have wheel bearings there as well. would they be a good company to get all of that from? (steering stem bearings, front wheel bearings, and rear wheel bearings)
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: advCo on Jun 16, 2015, 19:04:59
Yeah, I got everything from there. Shop around, I think I found cheaper prices on Amazon.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Jun 16, 2015, 21:21:44
I wouldn't bother with the clutch discs, just fit heavy duty springs and it will be better than stock
Also do the clutch hub oil hole mods while it's apart to increase oil flow through clutch, helps keep it cooler and cleaner (although oil gets dirty quicker but centrifugal filter will separate il from clutch 'dust')
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jun 16, 2015, 22:45:07
Thanks I'll shop around for the bearings.

PJ, I was planning on doing the clutch hub modification. Do I need to be precise with those? or will some clean holes with a hand drill, in the 2-3-2-3 pattern suffice? seems like that should do the trick and I shouldn't need a drill press or anything "fancy" like that, right?
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Jun 16, 2015, 23:49:12
Hand drill is fine, just be a little careful not to go off centre (British spelling  ;) 8) )
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jun 19, 2015, 00:05:29
I got my oil filter tool today, so, since I had some time, I tore into the engine some more and found a few things.

1. The kickstart mechanism seems pretty worn and doesn't seem to be disengaging completely if I rotate the shaft clockwise till it stops. The teeth and bracket seem worn and the shaft seems to have a wear mark the whole way around it from the gear. The problem is, I dont know what the issue is that would be causing this. I would appreciate suggestions. In the meantime, I think I'll be looking to order replacement parts.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5240768/Photos/honda-cb-360/worn-kickstart-shaft.JPG)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5240768/Photos/honda-cb-360/worn-kickstart-gear.JPG)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5240768/Photos/honda-cb-360/worn-kickstart-stop.JPG)


2. The cam chain tensioner and guide seemed to be warped. You can see the difference between the new (left) and old (right)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5240768/Photos/honda-cb-360/worn-cam-chain-guide.JPG)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5240768/Photos/honda-cb-360/warped-cam-chain-tensioner.JPG)


3. I got the head off and got a look at the pistons and valves. Everything is caked in carbon except one exhaust valve, which is burnt crispy. So, it looks like I'll be doing some cleaning and get a valve job once I find a good machinist near me.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5240768/Photos/honda-cb-360/right-piston-carbon.JPG)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5240768/Photos/honda-cb-360/right-cylinder-valves-burnt.JPG)
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Jun 19, 2015, 08:35:09
Kickstart parts are worn because it wasn't disengaging. They should still work OK though
There should be a kinda lug that goes behind the shaped metal piece to disengage things.
Probably someone didn't assemble it properly, there should be punch marks for alignment
Carbon build up seems about normal, hone and new rings things will be fine. Valve that isn't 'damp' was probably set too tight, wasn't a rocker arm showing wear in one of the pics?
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jun 20, 2015, 23:47:34
Thanks PJ. I'll be sure to assemble it correctly when I put it back together. I checked the rocker arms and none seemed to have abnormal wear so I bagged and tagged them.

I was able to work for a couple more hours today...

I read somewhere that you can check the cylinders for abnormal wear by seeing if you can wiggle the piston when it's at tdc. I was able to move both of them about 1mm but I don't think I'm going to use that as a sign that they're worn. I'll take some measurements when I can get my hands on the right tools. Here's a video of the movement:

https://youtu.be/7DwejNFjCXY


Once I got down to the crankshaft, I noticed that one of the holes in the bearing to the left of the cam chain had a good bit of metal inside it. this worries me. I'm really not sure what could have caused this, but it needs to be fixed. I guess I'm going to have to take the crankshaft apart or something. I'm really not sure. I'd greatly appreciate some suggestions on this one.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5240768/Photos/honda-cb-360/Crankshaft-metal-shavings.jpg)


I got everything taken off the lower and upper crankcase except for a few head studs that are soaking in PB blaster over night. Hopefully they'll be more willing to part with their home tomorrow. I also need to get a valve spring compressor to finish breaking down the head. I rented one from autozone today but it didn't work (bushing popper style), so I think I need to find the C-clamp kind instead. I was thinking of getting the one in the link below but I'm open to suggestions since I'm new to this!

http://smile.amazon.com/Motorcycle-valve-spring-compressor-tool/dp/B00MHTJU5S/ref=sr_1_4?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1434855311&sr=1-4&keywords=motorcycle+valve+spring+compressor (http://smile.amazon.com/Motorcycle-valve-spring-compressor-tool/dp/B00MHTJU5S/ref=sr_1_4?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1434855311&sr=1-4&keywords=motorcycle+valve+spring+compressor)
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jun 24, 2015, 00:41:56
Made some more progress today.

Engine:
I was able to finally get the last head stud out of the block after sitting in PB for a day. So now all engine parts are ready for cleaning and powder with the exception of the head. I'm waiting on the valve spring compressor to finish that piece. I also started looking for crankshafts online and have decided that I may just buy a new (used) crankshaft because they're only about $30.

Wheels:
I ordered a set of Buchanan spokes from DCC. They don't advertise a set for the CB360 but I cross-referenced part numbers and sizes and found that the CB400 has the same spokes, so I ordered their CB400 front and rear spokes. This inspired me to start taking the wheels apart today. I got the brakes off and was able to get the bearing retainers out fairly easily. I just drilled out the punches slightly and used an old screwdriver and hammer to spin the bearing retainers loose. After reading all the horror stories, I was slightly worried, but it went very smoothly. Now I just need to remove the tires and de-lace the wheel. Then the wheel parts will be ready for cleaning, powder, and reassembly. I'm going with black rims and hubs with stainless spokes. I've always loved that look.
Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jun 24, 2015, 23:56:30
My All Balls rear wheel bearings came in the mail today so I was inspired to get some work done. I went to a local shop to have the tires unmounted but wanted $25 per wheel so I decided I'd give it a go myself. I bought a set of motion pro tire spoons at another shop for $10. When I got home this evening I gave it a shot. Started with the rear wheel and boy, was that rough. After about 30 minutes of muscle, I finally honed my technique and got the tire off!! Victory! Then, since I had figured out a technique, the front tire took about 5 minutes. My word of advice is to use lots of soapy water. Get both sides of the tire good and covered before you start prying. After the rims are refinished I'm going to have to find some plastic to put between the wheel and spoon so I don't scratch them up! I just have to remove the spokes and bearings from the wheels and they will be fully disassembled and ready for powder!


(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/24/87de8250892bac4ebc385b1635b3f907.jpg)
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jun 27, 2015, 21:23:25
I was able to get the wheels, forks, and triple tree disassembled. I also did some organization so I know all the parts that need prepped for paint/powder. The forks went smoothly with an impact driver to get the bottom bolt out and a lever to pry the seals out.

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/27/746e8e69e499daec1bfb063e0b6c3e4e.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/27/656bb6048332560d2cf5efcaf4dc92b5.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/27/645b60296038589e3f32ac9d7c2ab856.jpg)

I also bought a sheet metal brake from harbor freight so I could make an electronics tray. I even found some scrap metal in my basement to practice with! This is my first attempt at fabrication. I'm sure the tray will go through multiple iterations.

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/27/c182f7902b3eba050505b5bb444053fe.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/27/49ccbd7d332d3d3fa6ca0e13e80824b3.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/27/558be3fcd4ad4db0d954ca606a491ea4.jpg)


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: Duchat on Jun 27, 2015, 21:36:16
Hand drill is fine, just be a little careful not to go off centre (British spelling  ;) 8) )
Canadian too!
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Jul 05, 2015, 14:16:04
Piston 'play' video is meaningless, the top of piston is always around 0.75mm~1.00 smaller than cylinder bore at room temp.
 Is that the location hole in bearing?
 there are at least 2 holes, one locates the other is oil feed
No need to strip crank, just wash out the bits you can see, should be possible to wash out bearings, get a gallon of diesel fuel for cleaning (no chance of anything rusting plus it's got all sorts of detergents/preservatives
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jul 06, 2015, 12:43:40
Thank you for the pointers on the crankshaft, PJ. The metal bits are in the larger hole which I'm pretty sure is the oil passage. I'll take your suggestion and try to get them out and wash with diesel fuel. My original assumption was that the metal bits were actually shavings from in the crankshaft bearing, rendering the bearing/crankshaft useless. After I get them out, I'll try to see if they may be from something else. Any ideas off the top of your head what the shavings would possibly be from? Maybe that one spot was a bottleneck and the oil flow caused them to collect in that location?
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Jul 08, 2015, 13:06:10
Various bits are pretty common, wear from gears, cam chain and tensioner, etc
If that's the oil hole it will go all the way through (about 1mm at bottom)
I think it may be the locating hole though?
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jul 12, 2015, 18:25:00
I did some more investigating and found it was the oil hole after all. I used a pick to get all the bits out. After talking to a few people who know a good bit more than me about old bikes, I've come to the conclusion that these shards may not have been cleaned out from the factory. I don't see anywhere they could have come from and the bearing moves just as smooth and is just as tight as the other bearing. And apparently its not uncommon to find issues like this. I also found some more shavings in a bolt hole in one of the brake caliper mount holes in the lower fork. Seeing this in two places makes me wonder if my bike was assembled on a friday.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5240768/Photos/honda-cb-360/Debris-from-crankshaft.jpg)
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jul 12, 2015, 19:42:44
I talked to the person I bought the bike from and he was able to recommend a local machinist that only works on motorcycles, and mostly old motorcycles. So I took a drive to meet him and drop off my head, cylinders, and pistons. He's rebuilding the head and honing the cylinders for me. After he hones the cylinders he's going to let me know if they're within spec or if I need to jump to the next larger piston size.

I also built a nice little blasting cabinet to prep all the parts that are going to paint/powder.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5240768/Photos/honda-cb-360/Blast-cabinet-4.jpg)

I started with a small part to see how well it worked and I was super amazed. I love this thing!

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5240768/Photos/honda-cb-360/Fork-lower-clamps-blasted.jpg)

I posted a thread with more details in the other projects section http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=66788.0 (http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=66788.0)


Over the weekend my fiance and I went to the AHRMA Vintage Motorcycle Festival at New Jersey Motorsports Park. It was really nice to see the person I bought my bike from a few years ago. He had a stand in the swap meet with a ton of parts he was selling. It was really cool to be able to watch the old bikes tearing it up on the track!

https://youtu.be/IeDr3fX8BXw
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Jul 13, 2015, 12:20:34
I need to build another outfit. They are just so much fun  8)
Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Aug 11, 2015, 22:56:35
I got my first round of shiny bits from the powder coater.  That was a super exciting moment when things are starting to look good and you can actually start putting nice parts together instead of taking dirty parts apart.

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/11/e972fc9766c686cd9ecdc9a55ba682a6.jpg)


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Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Aug 11, 2015, 23:09:36
The forks are all back together with new seals. I ordered a new set of dust covers from dcc but they sent me the wrong ones so I need to send them back and get the correct size.

The seals were easy to get on without a fork seal driver. I just used the old seal as a driver and tapped on it with a hammer. I put some tape on the upper forks to protect them from the hammer. As long as you tap lightly and work around each side so it drives In straight you shouldn't have a problem.

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/11/57b2a2da6c5bddae0d6816a08a7ca859.jpg)

I also got a set of new old stock fork bolts because mine were nasty, even after soaking for 5 days in a vinegar bath. You can see the difference between the old and the new in this photo

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/11/0e39688418d23feaaf7782380e556a9c.jpg)
Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Aug 14, 2015, 20:37:29
I got my new spokes all polished and wheels all laced up! After the first wheel was laced up correctly, the second wheel was a breeze. I also installed new All Balls wheel bearings. I'm glad I referred to the honda manual while putting the bearings in because I almost overlooked the smaller bearing spacer in the rear wheel. One thing I would do differently is make sure the spokes are the right size before spending hours polishing all of them. Mine ended up being the right size but it would have been horrible if they weren't. Not sure Buchanan would take back polished spokes.

Inner spoke pattern:

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/14/afdca8a41f5ccf8e68e16fba3a705050.jpg)


Threads greased up good with the anti-seize supplied by Buchanan.

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/14/74babbe72e72c2156c9ecbc09e5f252a.jpg)

All laced up:

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/14/9fae6b17f1a5e48a2d7f1685f7da469f.jpg)

They're all laced up and true but now I need to figure out what I'm going to do about tightening the spokes. I read a lot of people don't bother with actually setting the torque with a torque wrench. Since this is my first time lacing wheels and I don't know the feel of a tight spoke, I'm going to do some research to find the best method.

One more suggestion I'd make when lacing wheels is, when you start doing the outer spokes, let part of your wheel hang out over your workbench. This allows you to easily reach under to thread the spoke without having to lift up the wheel each time.

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/14/316aa46db128be385dcaa26eeeacad9d.jpg)


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: trek97 on Aug 14, 2015, 20:50:54
I'm going to do some research to find the best method.

The only torque for spokes I have found...Keeping in mind it came from the "internet" is 6 lbs.  NOw, what I would recommend doing is sending Buchanans a quick email and ask them.  Then we will all know the answer.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Aug 14, 2015, 21:20:42
Thanks trek. Most of my research so far points to ~40 to 60 in/lb. but that depends on the application. I'm also reading a lot of people saying not to worry about torque as much as making sure the wheel is true, spokes are greased, nipples tight, and that all the spokes have a similar sound when tapped with a wrench.


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Aug 23, 2015, 13:21:39
My seat came last week so I got the itch to do some frame work. I cut off all the extra tabs and rear end, and grinded down all the welds flush. She cleans up nicely :)

Now I'm figuring out placement of my electronics. I decided to ditch the HID setup, because of all the extra ballasts  it requires, and go with Spark Moto's LED headlight instead.

I've figured out how I'm generally going to mount the seat but I have to figure out the specifics. Basically I want something that doesn't require anything flimsy like Velcro and doesn't use nuts that I have to keep track of every time I take the seat off. I found a great solution and will share when I can get it mocked up.

Here's a photo as she sits today...

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/23/265884e24799bafbfe3576ad15c08f6a.jpg)


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Aug 24, 2015, 13:20:28
I use a 'flat' 'Z' shaped piece for front mount and hook it under tank mounting. At rear, 6mm bolts through original rear fender mounting
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Sep 12, 2015, 20:09:39
Got my wheels buttoned up today. Tires mounted and balanced and rear hub put back together with new shoes. The front tire went on without any issues. The rear tire gave me a hell of a time and, even with rim protectors, I ended up scratching my newly finished rims. So I ended up having a local shop mount the rear tire. Lesson learned.

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/12/ea94673caed4c03e1bc5e31934c13477.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/12/398e41e505732d69b16ad393e7ee920d.jpg)


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Sep 14, 2015, 17:00:22
I really liked those Conti's back in the day.
In fact, I liked them so much I got a set for my project (as yet unseen but may end up on 'the runner' ;D )
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Sep 22, 2015, 12:37:16
I got my head, cylinders and Pistons back from the machinist a couple weeks ago but hadn't provided an update. I was planning on painting them but they look so good now that I want to leave them bare. The head was fully rebuilt, the exhaust ports were opened up, and the cylinders were bored out for  gs850 Pistons.

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/22/76d6a542316a168dcd4ff28aa0b13693.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/22/099b8a85af276193f0f9b1559ddc524f.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/22/de154cdd3cb7363854ffa20c2d4cccbf.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/22/e93573ccc5d7f010bceae5b0805ff992.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/22/ba08187f60cf11414e369a5626d9ed21.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/22/d63c6fb634be29527feb6dbcdc626c50.jpg)


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: Sonreir on Sep 22, 2015, 13:06:54
For future reference, Kibblewhite makes oversized valves for the CB350 that fit just fine in a 360.
I went with +1mm over for my exhaust valves.
Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Sep 22, 2015, 13:21:56
I'm actually still using the stock valves. he just matched the ports to the gasket size. Apparently he smoothed out some casting/machining imperfections in the intake ports as well for no extra charge


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Sep 22, 2015, 17:15:11
I use stock valves but would like to get 1mm OS intakes. (but every time I have some cash something more important comes along)
The exhausts are just about perfect size even though they look too small
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Oct 01, 2015, 09:13:09
Finished my oil modifications last night.

1. Drilled out upper crank case oil passages
2. Opened up the oil filter exit passage with a dremel.
3. Previously drilled holes in the inner clutch basket

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/01/f11c3ab2e13714637a75020f14e16e04.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/01/21f7a7017718a354fe26483aa6f6172a.jpg)


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Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Nov 12, 2015, 22:26:10
I've been a busy bee lately but have not been posting my progress. I guess I'm having too much fun

I decided to buy a welder so I can do my frame work. My first welder and first time mig welding. I have a lot of learning to do!

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/12/1b9954505441b86dae437c360ca35cf5.jpg)

Fabricated a bunch of stuff
Seat mounting system
Electronics tray
Battery box
Rear seat hoop

I'm especially proud of how I decided to mount the seat. No bolts to deal with. I used a quick-latch http://www.quik-latch.com/black-anodized-mini-quik-latch.html (http://www.quik-latch.com/black-anodized-mini-quik-latch.html) so all I need to do is press a button to release the seat. And just have to snap the seat down to secure it.  I got all my metal tabs from A&A Manufacturing. They were super helpful and even made me custom tabs for no extra charge!

I ended up going with a BikeMaster tru gel battery. They don't have a lot of cranking amps but I don't have an electric start so I think it should be sufficient. Way cheaper than those ballistic batteries. And not so finicky.


(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/12/4f3fe61dd2ae1ca2e34602de4ff94d17.jpg)

The black circle in the center of the electronics tray is the button for the seat latch

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/12/f5589b404861b5ad0fe65cfcbaef730a.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/12/e46db68afc63cef8512774aad0f72e6d.jpg)

Like I said, my welding leaves a lot to be desired. But it's getting better. I keep practicing on any scrap I can find. Practice makes perfect right?


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Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Nov 12, 2015, 22:32:35
I got a surprise in the mail today so I had to do some test fitting. 13.25" hagon shocks from Dave Quinn Motorcycles. These should give me the clearance I need for the electronics tray.

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/12/dd207eb5b97312964d23bdaddcb10567.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/12/8159e5e0f7cdf26ffcc03648bac81f55.jpg)

In the second picture you can see how I decided to secure the battery.  Made a couple hooks, welded them on, and found a use for a rubber strap that's been sitting around. Trimmed it and put a hole in each end.


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Nov 12, 2015, 22:41:48
I also finished sand blasting my engine cases for paint. Cleaned them all real good to get rid of any glass particles but I'm going to clean them a second time before I actually paint. I want to make sure nothing is hidden in any little passage. The last thing I need is some glass beads ruining my engine!

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/12/7dac2b7546e590998856c0d30b3b58c2.jpg)


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: Duchat on Nov 15, 2015, 00:39:39
Quote
I'm especially proud of how I decided to mount the seat. No bolts to deal with. I used a quick-latch http://www.quik-latch.com/black-anodized-mini-quik-latch.html (http://www.quik-latch.com/black-anodized-mini-quik-latch.html) so all I need to do is press a button to release the seat. And just have to snap the seat down to secure it.  I got all my metal tabs from A&A Manufacturing. They were super helpful and even made me custom tabs for no extra charge!

I'm stealing this.
Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Nov 15, 2015, 18:11:24
I'm stealing this.

Good! I spent countless hours researching different mechanisms. so I'll be stoked if others can benefit from it as well.


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Nov 16, 2015, 23:08:59
Did some final cleaning today and masked off the engine for paint. Hopefully I'll be able to find some time to paint in the next couple days.

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/16/f8524f0d2ab031b1b285b953d6a13504.jpg)


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Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Nov 22, 2015, 15:14:55
Painted my engine cases and valve cover today. I decided to go with vht satin black instead of aluminum and I'm really glad I did. The black really makes the brushed side covers and refinished cylinders and head stand out. I think I'm going to let the cases cure for a couple days and then give them another good cleaning to make sure absolutely no glass particles are left before starting the rebuild process

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/22/ed967b7fb8e16ef9eabc390347f99881.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/22/b2195ac7105e76af971d4a9285b8bacf.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/22/fbb0366a033cfa4865d7dd2d4e21ec17.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/22/3dcfe6aa9ce76a5cc2bd99ec011439f0.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/22/56d396977c29577965725e4897e31039.jpg)

I also painted my rotor while I was at it

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/22/60dd3ccb50a6495ff36391d615ec25f4.jpg)


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Dec 03, 2015, 00:43:24
Started assembling the motor this week. Got the Kickstarter functioning properly. If you remember, that was the issue that had me taking the motor apart in the first place.

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/02/32827fff34a700cc116d3b8ac156f558.jpg)


Got the rest of the bottom end assembled and sealed up

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/02/7e1e592da769096c36a774fd6e04d72a.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/02/51395e953d2ec0ff84162d24db7eeaa4.jpg)

I found that wire wheels make great work with corroded bolts

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/02/0552651dcf0350c4fb9b627aa22ccba0.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/02/a4d6a0dacdc0bc0175fc1f21e83335d7.jpg)

I started to assemble the top end but remembered that I hadn't ordered new circlips for the pistons. So I ordered them a couple days ago and they arrived today so I started on the top end. Got the Pistons on the rods and the cylinders installed

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/02/ea9f22c2716bd6b82b576e24d921e507.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/02/c56ccd1595f04bc7de4cbf5d235a56c4.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/02/4b861dc084f7287ee2e5629e330fbd29.jpg)

Annealed my copper head gasket and coated it with copper gasket spray, installed the gasket and head, tightened down the studs to spec, checked to make sure everything rotates properly, and nope! My Pistons are hitting the gasket. So I'm going to order a new gasket with slightly larger bore. The pic below shows how far the pistons extend above the cylinders. So getting that gasket right is going to be pretty important I guess.

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/02/8352053ca9ec156cefe5be00fa5104a5.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/02/699f7fd1028b8d9f7fdeaa5af2b0e3a1.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/02/d1ce70fd9b4405438bc8ac3f35b736d6.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/02/230891f8e6eb33ef4c6f01b300bc4515.jpg)


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: Duchat on Dec 04, 2015, 00:37:08
I use a wire wheel on rusty bolts all the time but it also removes any protective coating. I'll usually coat the threads in copper coating to ensure it comes out the next time too.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Dec 04, 2015, 08:43:23
What about using thread sealant, antisieze, or threadlocker on the case bolts?


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Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Dec 04, 2015, 08:51:34
I talked to Lani at copper gaskets about my problem and he suggested trying to just file the opening a little larger. A file didn't really do the job but the sanding wheel on my dremel made a good even larger opening. Now I need to get the copper coat off without scratching the surface of the gasket. I'm thinking about trying aircraft stripper. If that doesn't work, buy some permatex gasket remover. Any suggestions?


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: frogman on Dec 04, 2015, 09:27:44
I use antisieze on any steel bolt that goes into aluminum. I use no glue on any gasket as good kits have a sealant already impregnated into the material.

Far as removing that coating use acetone or a gasket remover. Or your torch again since it is copper will just burn off. I wouldn't put any back on unless it was recommended by the person you bought the gasket from.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: Sonreir on Dec 04, 2015, 09:46:35
A little scratching on the gasket won't matter. Steel wool is fine.

Have you annealed the gasket yet?
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Dec 04, 2015, 12:42:54
Thanks guys, yeah I annealed it. Lani had recommended annealing it and using copper coat so that's what I'm doing. I'll probably take the case bolts out one by one and add some antisieze to be safe.


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: Sonreir on Dec 04, 2015, 12:45:21
If you annealed it, then you would have used steel wool or a scotch brite pad to scrub off the carbon.
You can use the same thing to remove any sealer.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Dec 04, 2015, 14:07:22
I get gaskets dull red then drop into sink full of water.
 Most of the oxide comes off and saves a little cleaning.
 Copper doesn't harden with quenching and stays soft
 As for anti-seize, Teflon plumbers paste or liquid works best for stainless into alloy.
 Coppercote or copper anti -seize causes slight corrosion over time (although personally I haven't had issues with it, maybe 3~4 yrs isn't long enough for corrosion to happen?)
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Dec 11, 2015, 14:25:49
Thanks guys. I torched until red hot and dipped into a sink full of water. Then I used a scotch brite pad to clean it up. Double checked clearances with the head on. Then I coated the gasket and torqued the head according to the honda manual. Now I have the stator in place so I can move onto the cam next. It's starting to look like an engine again.

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/11/872f624ff2c156c69c921558cb914d0f.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/11/3c328d309311303239cedb222dadb74a.jpg)


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: trek97 on Dec 11, 2015, 20:28:54
Very nice and very clean.

Looks like the old copper crush washer may be still stuck in the right exhaust header port.  Or, my eyes are just getting tired.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Dec 11, 2015, 20:33:09
Looking good.
The 378cc conversion gives a performance boost well out of proportion to the 22cc capacity increase  8)
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: frogman on Dec 12, 2015, 11:59:18
Very nice and very clean.

Looks like the old copper crush washer may be still stuck in the right exhaust header port.  Or, my eyes are just getting tired.

No they are both still there.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Dec 12, 2015, 12:55:51
They're both there in the picture but have been removed since. I'm replacing all gaskets and seals along the way


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: redwillissuperman on Dec 12, 2015, 19:16:13
I would strongly recommend against using the wire brushed fasteners without using a protective coating on them if you care about their appearance in the short term. They will corrode very quickly with red rust. Look at the Caswell website for simply to apply electrocoatings or try the easy black oxide kit from Eastwood.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Dec 12, 2015, 23:46:50
Thanks I'll look into it


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Dec 22, 2015, 20:44:53
I ended up removing and coating the case bolts with some Eastwood diamond clear that I had left from another project. I also got the cam installed. After reading a lot about making sure the cam is aligned, I was a little afraid. But it ended up being a lot easier than I thought.

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/22/defc78f18f84b4a0b8e885229539846d.jpg)

The oil filter tool definitely came in handy as I was able to use it to hold the crank and cam from spinning while torquing down the cam gear bolts

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/22/58a34cad4f8111efb956e7e81e1bdfac.jpg)

I also got an early Christmas present. New k&n filters!

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/22/7e12d893c024a9b4b683f0550c72a5dc.jpg)


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Dec 22, 2015, 22:33:33
Lubed the cam up good and sealed her up this evening

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/22/15fd78b8429a73852053493983613595.jpg)


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Dec 24, 2015, 19:58:06
When you see K&N next to cheap pods you see why I like them Look at any pics of bikes with cheap pods and the K&N size difference is obvious
They don't 'dwarf' the carbs but do give loads more airflow  8)
The only downside is you have to relocate the battery
 
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: trek97 on Dec 25, 2015, 06:05:53
When you see K&N next to cheap pods you see why I like them Look at any pics of bikes with cheap pods and the K&N size difference is obvious
They don't 'dwarf' the carbs but do give loads more airflow  8)
The only downside is you have to relocate the battery

I like those K&Ns best. 

Comparing w my O2 sensor, Below 6000 rpm those K&Ns perform virtually the same as my clean NOS filters.

However, really shine 6K and up, they do let her breathe better than stock.   8)

W the mufflers I got, I can even hear a difference in the exhaust note.  Building rpms a bit faster, for better acceleration.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Dec 25, 2015, 17:08:05
Do you guys notice any issue with off center air flow from the shape of these filters? PJ, I'll be sending you my carbs soon if you're still offering the magic carb service for these babies.


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: trek97 on Dec 26, 2015, 03:41:04
Do you guys notice any issue with off center air flow from the shape of these filters?

Never even crossed my mind to mess w that...but then i dont think i have the clearance above to flip them upside down.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Dec 27, 2015, 17:36:20
It doesn't seem to matter how they are fitted, the airflow is slightly disrupted but so much better than stock it's always an overall improvement.
Still doing carbs, it's my hobby  8)
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: morsejo on Jan 04, 2016, 21:24:35
Is this the stock shock length?

I got a surprise in the mail today so I had to do some test fitting. 13.25" hagon shocks from Dave Quinn Motorcycles. These should give me the clearance I need for the electronics tray.

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/12/dd207eb5b97312964d23bdaddcb10567.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/12/8159e5e0f7cdf26ffcc03648bac81f55.jpg)

In the second picture you can see how I decided to secure the battery.  Made a couple hooks, welded them on, and found a use for a rubber strap that's been sitting around. Trimmed it and put a hole in each end.


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jan 04, 2016, 22:26:34

Is this the stock shock length?

Nope, 13"


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: dakota.morgan91 on Jan 04, 2016, 22:48:47
This is a special build! Very nice! So someone said that the performance boost is not proporsionate to the displacement increase. Is it a big jump? And why is that?
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jan 04, 2016, 22:53:55
Yeah apparently the cb360 responds really well to an increase in displacement. I think it is largely due to the oversized intake ports from the factory. The increase in displacement better utilizes the intake port size. That's what I've gathered from a lot of the stuff I've read from the great contributors here. I'm sure some of the other guys here could explain better than me though.


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Jan 04, 2016, 23:27:07
Nah, that's a good enough explanation  8)
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: Duchat on Jan 05, 2016, 15:13:51
Nah, that's a good enough explanation  8)
Got any more of those 850 pistons, pj?
Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jan 05, 2016, 16:13:05
There were a couple for sale in the fs section on this site. They may be available still

Edit: sorry I just looked and they're sold.

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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jan 05, 2016, 16:25:03
I have 2 more from the set I bought but don't want to part with them until I make sure the ones in now are working well. That may be a few months


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Jan 06, 2016, 03:22:30
Got any more of those 850 pistons, pj?

Nope, when I get some time and money I'll need a few sets myself
Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Mar 27, 2016, 12:30:33
I've been busy lately with a freelance project and selling my house but I got a little work done the past couple weeks. I figured out what i want to do as far as a tail light and license plate configuration. I wanted something as simple as possible so I went with a led bar with integrated turn signals. If it doesn't pass inspection I can just add my other signals and then take them back off. I built a bracket that will allow me to easily swap and remove the light without messing with the frame. The light is 3m adhesive backed but I can see that slowly pealing up over time so my bracket allows me to have a little zip tie at each end to prevent that. My welding still needs a good bit of help but it'll hold up and it's not visible. The bracket isn't the most solid thing in the world but it's not holding much weight so I think it will hold up well. Time will tell though.

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160327/266af4e8ef2249fa20aeb65a30d603f5.jpg)

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160327/e5a964d63739229305e91aafdabf7806.jpg)

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160327/1e8951c5983d2b3348a02c8d4e975b3f.jpg)
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: el barto on Mar 27, 2016, 19:19:50
Enjoying your build a lot, good work.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Mar 27, 2016, 23:35:14
Enjoying your build a lot, good work.

Gracias El Seņor Barto  :)
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jun 24, 2016, 00:24:22
Made a LOT of progress lately

Frame was sandblasted and painted

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160624/c9d524c309f48e79348eefa71e0ccbaf.jpg)

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160624/b6b10d400a32813b6cadd403b18c9deb.jpg)

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160624/bbafc847edfb60cc167f65696ff76e67.jpg)



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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jun 24, 2016, 00:33:09
Suspension and wheels put on the bike. She's a roller!

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160624/a6b537c212dffa42af09ce3aa317b8e6.jpg)

Front brake caliper rebuilt and painted. I also got a speed bleeder valve. I have a feeling I'm going to love having that. May need to put one in the cbr600 master cylinder I now have on the bike. I'm waiting on a new 90 degree brake line fitting in the mail and then I can add brake fluid

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160624/9bf9817e87c164bfacdfa17067da5051.jpg)




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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jun 24, 2016, 00:36:29
Installed the motor with a hand from my dad and girlfriend. I don't have a picture of the install but there was a good bit of painters tape involved.

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160624/6cfa1173e966b74a198e48bfbbd8e16d.jpg)


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Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jun 24, 2016, 00:41:18
Got my heavy duty clutch springs in. I didn't realize they were going to be a different size. I hope that's intentional and not the wrong part. If someone could chime in I'd appreciate it. The new springs are the larger ones. Also, does anyone know the torque specs for the spring bolts? I couldn't find them in the manual.

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160624/021aa4f9ea4e183e18bf744f76fe541c.jpg)


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Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jun 24, 2016, 00:44:04
Got my new drive chain on. What a beautiful thing. I almost want to remove the rear sprocket guard so you can see it better! I couldn't find a chain the right length so I ordered long and bought a chain breaker tool. What a handy little device.

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160624/5e08276722348a6cfd7af1c4971e1a9d.jpg)


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: advCo on Jun 24, 2016, 02:32:35
Torque spec for those bolts is about 10 ft/lb. If you don't see a torque value for something just go by another value for the same size bolts in the manual.


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Jun 24, 2016, 15:22:40
Use generic torque spec for 6mm bolt. Probably 7~9ft/lbs but really should be done in inch/pounds (84~96 in/lb)
Where did you get clutch springs?
Generally they come in two versions depending on manufacturer.
 Either much longer with same amount of coils  or slightly shorter with much thicker wire and less coils
It does make a massive difference to bike, pretty much all 60's~80's Honda's have marginal clutch spring pressure and need an upgrade
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jun 24, 2016, 16:08:28
They're EBC springs. Longer with same amount of coils. Sounds like they're correct. Thanks guys!

Pj, the carbs arrived in the mail today. Thanks so much for your help with them!


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Jun 24, 2016, 19:39:47
Cool stuff.
 Try not to hurt yourself when it's finished, launching around 6K  it's quicker than people think
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: randy lahey on Aug 15, 2016, 06:59:20
Hey I noticed you powder coated your rear hub.  Did you leave the sprocket bushings in?
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Aug 16, 2016, 09:09:51
Hey I noticed you powder coated your rear hub.  Did you leave the sprocket bushings in?

Yeah I just left them in


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Aug 23, 2016, 22:57:05
After about 6 months searching, an upgraded oil pickup appeared on eBay. So I snagged it right up. Just had time today to put it in and take a couple pics. You can see the difference in how low the upgraded sump goes compared to the old stock one.

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160824/115117c7f5ae3f32fa7f9430c2e72ade.jpg)

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160824/42497dc5fb5ec3fe4f29f8bb662091c9.jpg)


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: advCo on Aug 24, 2016, 01:43:08
After about 6 months searching, an upgraded oil pickup appeared on eBay. So I snagged it right up. Just had time today to put it in and take a couple pics. You can see the difference in how low the upgraded sump goes compared to the old stock one.

Somebody needs to start making aftermarket CJ pickups, they're getting tough to find.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: irk miller on Aug 24, 2016, 09:19:17

Somebody needs to start making aftermarket CJ pickups, they're getting tough to find.
this is the truth. Just 3 years ago, eBay would have several at all times.. Now just one or two per year.


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: trek97 on Aug 24, 2016, 10:02:35
this is the truth. Just 3 years ago, eBay would have several at all times.. Now just one or two per year.


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I almost posted the same thing there.  Ha.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Aug 24, 2016, 10:28:17
Yeah I had a watch set up on eBay for the past 6 months. A ton of CB style pickups but no Cj style. I started to wonder if I would ever find one. Then bam, there one was.

I wonder if the bottom cover part could be made with a 3D printer and popped over the CB pickup


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: trek97 on Aug 24, 2016, 10:59:28
I thought about posting a pic of the brand new still in original boxes of 360 air filters I bought about 6 years ago on eBay.  $20 each I'm remembering.  When I bought my bike and was first tuning it up to run.  Bone stock before making any mods.

Those were the days!
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: advCo on Aug 24, 2016, 12:15:34
Yeah I had a watch set up on eBay for the past 6 months. A ton of CB style pickups but no Cj style. I started to wonder if I would ever find one. Then bam, there one was.

I wonder if the bottom cover part could be made with a 3D printer and popped over the CB pickup


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Actually, that's a good idea. I could 3D print a prototype but the final product would have to be cast, maybe aluminum or an alloy, and then the flow tubes from the CB pickup could be welded back on...hmm maybe the next time I do an oil change...
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Aug 28, 2016, 15:42:28
Somebody needs to start making aftermarket CJ pickups, they're getting tough to find.

Stock pickup is fine as long as you don't have bike idling when laying on it's side and oil level is at least half way between marks.
The 'problem' wa owners who had heavily cambered streets, only used side stand and never checked oi levell (basically, Honda kept making bikes more 'idiot proof)
The service bulletin says pretty much the exact same reason for the change. The cam chain tensioner mod was also due to owners not doing any maintainance. Both types can fail but only the early type can make engine 'lock up'
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Sep 04, 2016, 00:46:51
Got a lot done in the past couple days. Finished my wiring harness following a modified version of sonreir's diagram at http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=52092.msg581707#msg581707 (http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=52092.msg581707#msg581707). Just added the gauge lights and horn to the mix. I was originally planning on modifying the stock harness but ended up making a whole new one from scratch. I'm sure glad I did. It went a lot smoother than expected. I got pretty much all my parts from cycleterminal.com aside from a couple quick purchases at auto zone.

I also filled the motor with oil, adjusted the valves, and set static timing. Now I just need to triple check everything, connect exhaust and fuel, and prep for the first startup procedure!


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: trek97 on Sep 04, 2016, 06:47:33
(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/11494-200816163635.png)
Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Sep 20, 2016, 11:18:17
Finalized everything for first startup the past few days. Timing chain adjusted, static timing set, valves adjusted, oil level good, spark is strong, bolts all tight. So I put some gas in the tank and let her flow. Then noticed the right float must be stuck because fuel kept flowing out the overflow. Probably going to fix that this evening and start her up!

One other thing I need to do is build a stop for the center stand so it doesn't rub on the chain. Probably just run a bar from the rear footrest mounts for now until I get my exhaust finished. I'm planning on adding an upsweep extension to my pipes. Once I do that I'll have a better idea of what to do about the kick stands. I wish my center stand had the adjustable bolt that stops it on the frame tab behind the engine. Oh well.

Currently...

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160920/bc4ce5986a2ff9930ef05bbe73a284f1.jpg)
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: trek97 on Sep 20, 2016, 18:19:22
 pull the center stand off.  Place it on the shelf along w a 5/8 x 8" bolt.  Simply slip it on shove bolt in.  No spring needed.  Just use it when you need it, then pull it back off once finished.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: el barto on Sep 20, 2016, 19:04:59
Looking real nice 8)
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Sep 20, 2016, 20:01:19
Trek I like the way you think


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: 3DogNate on Sep 20, 2016, 20:02:07
pull the center stand off.  Place it on the shelf along w a 5/8 x 8" bolt.  Simply slip it on shove bolt in.  No spring needed.  Just use it when you need it, then pull it back off once finished.
That's exactly what I do

(Bike looks nice too)


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: trek97 on Sep 20, 2016, 21:00:25
Trek I like the way you think


Thanks I thought the voices in my head were the only ones.

Hopefully your exhaust isnt in the way.  I may not have started doing that til my high pipes were installed.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Sep 21, 2016, 22:23:16
pull the center stand off.  Place it on the shelf along w a 5/8 x 8" bolt.  Simply slip it on shove bolt in.  No spring needed.  Just use it when you need it, then pull it back off once finished.

Me too  ;)
Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Sep 21, 2016, 22:26:48
My muffler is in the way but that's an easy bolt to loosen for now. I slipped a vacuum hose over the side stand so it doesn't rattle on the muffler for now


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: trek97 on Sep 22, 2016, 07:50:28
My muffler is in the way but that's an easy bolt to loosen for now. I slipped a vacuum hose over the side stand so it doesn't rattle on the muffler for now

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/11494-200816163635.png)
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Sep 22, 2016, 16:22:30
Just noticed the tail light/number plate bracket. You will need some sort of backing for plate as it will vibrate and crack (then fall off  ;) )
I have picture of plate fying through the air when Brendon's broke but can't find it at present (had Go-Pro filming ride)
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Sep 25, 2016, 17:59:21
The plate itself will crack? You mean because it's only mounted by the top two holes?


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Sep 26, 2016, 05:29:28
Yep,it flaps about because it's so thin
Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Sep 26, 2016, 09:17:33
It sits almost horizontal at about 20 degrees so maybe that will help?
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Sep 26, 2016, 18:15:35
Start it up and see how much it moves  ;)
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Sep 26, 2016, 19:24:57
It started up and ran for a minute but wouldn't stay running. So I got some tinkering to do


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Mar 25, 2017, 11:14:19
I got the bike running well but the head gasket started leaking. So after double checking torque specs and running again I decided to pull the head and inspect. It seems the mating surface of the head is warped slightly where it was leaking so I guess I'll have to get that machined. I guess these copper head gaskets are a little less forgiving than the paper ones


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Mar 25, 2017, 15:50:14
Yep, they are  ;)
When everything is flat, they work much better at preventing future problems, though
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: redwillissuperman on Mar 25, 2017, 19:20:37
Yep, they are  ;)
When everything is flat, they work much better at preventing future problems, though

Don't you need to heat them up (flame on) and anneal them prior to installation?
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Mar 25, 2017, 19:21:31
Don't you need to heat them up (flame on) and anneal them prior to installation?

Yes that's recommended


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: redwillissuperman on Mar 25, 2017, 19:22:44
Getting "dead soft" is key. Did you do standard thickness or drop it down a tenth?
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: irk miller on Mar 25, 2017, 20:04:41
Lani will tell you straight up to heat them to red hot then dunk them in cold water.  Annealing them is key to them working.  Also, spray both sides with copper gasket. 
Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Mar 25, 2017, 21:07:14
I did. The deck needs milled. My machinist is taking care of it.


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Mar 25, 2017, 21:09:16
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170326/957d52b5be0f0ef2b008ad4406a813ee.jpg)


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: trek97 on Mar 25, 2017, 21:30:51
Note to myself...Never put a straight edge on my 360s head!   ::)
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: irk miller on Mar 25, 2017, 22:03:43
Haha
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Mar 25, 2017, 22:18:21
I was able to get 0.0015 feeler gauge through there. My machinist said if I can get more than 0.001 it probably should be fixed. If I were using a composite gasket it would probably be fine. No worries. $30 plus shipping for a good seal.


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Mar 25, 2017, 22:22:59
By the way, Eastwood Pre Prep works wonders on threebond. I just used a plastic razor for the bigger stuff and wiped the thin stuff right off with eastwood pre.


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Mar 27, 2017, 15:45:00
That looks more than 0.0015", sure it wasn't 0.015"? (one and a half thou compared to fifteen thou)
 one and a half thou wouldn't be enough to cause a major leak (or even a mi or one)
Head was probably torqued in wrong sequence at some time, started on outside nuts instead of the 4 in the middle
 
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on May 19, 2017, 09:17:25
Just spoke with my machinist. He had to take 0.004" off the deck of the cylinders as well as the head to get them flat. Once I get them in the mail I'll measure for a base gasket and get it ordered from Lonnie.

Does anyone know if 0.004" off the head will affect cam timing too much? If I should get a new head gasket to make up the difference?


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: Sonreir on May 19, 2017, 13:49:48
.004" is almost nothing. I wouldn't worry about it.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on May 22, 2017, 12:49:41
You have to remove around 0.020" for it to make much difference. Fitting thicker base gasket will put things 'back to stock'
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on May 22, 2017, 14:12:49
Great thanks guys. Looking forward to getting these parts back so I can measure and order the base gasket


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on May 22, 2017, 19:31:48
It's a pain but will be more than worth it in the end
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on May 22, 2017, 20:22:58
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170522/cb58e47fb81e76dd531ce1391578f58a.jpg)


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: irk miller on May 22, 2017, 20:23:49
Mmmmmmm... pretty.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: trek97 on May 22, 2017, 20:27:47
Mmmmmmm... pretty.

+1 them are some purdy jugs you got there.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on May 23, 2017, 14:33:29
Looks good.
The liners were re-pressed in before machining?
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on May 23, 2017, 14:53:25
No, just machined flat. He said sometimes liners can "settle" after being pressed in from the factory. That it's probably been that way for a long time but wasn't an issue with the composite gasket since it's more forgiving.


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on May 23, 2017, 19:53:05
Doh, I forgot they were already settled, that's why you had them skimmed  ;D
Set to 0.038"~0.040" it will be pretty impressive when run in.
I think it's geared for 127mph @ 10,000rpm, 120 should be 'easy'?
 Brendon has 'run away' from a 'new' Triumph Bonneville on his 378
The guy had messed with fuel maps after fitting new exhaust  so it wasn't running right but even so, it shouldn't be slower than a 40yr old CB360  8)
 
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on May 23, 2017, 21:45:29
We've got a joker. Ha. I'm no machinist so I go along with what people tell me. Are you referring to head gasket thickness?


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: irk miller on May 23, 2017, 22:02:28
He is.  I'm running .032 copper gaskets from Lani on my 378.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on May 23, 2017, 23:31:28
I think my gasket is .042" so that minus the .004" off the head would make .038". Fair enough


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on May 23, 2017, 23:38:35
What size base gaskets are you guys running? I'll measure for proper thickness of course but it's nice to have something to compare to


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on May 24, 2017, 13:33:40
I don't know if the variations are on the crankcase top or cylinder length but there seems to be a variation. (I think it's crankcase as blocks I've measured are all very close)
I'm running a 0.060" head gasket on one motor and 0.040" on another.
The original had 0.040" which is why I recommended it, the other motor wasn't built for a long time so I didn't realise they were different from 1974 to 1975>
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on May 24, 2017, 16:47:23
When I dry fit everything to get base gasket thickness, should I remove the rings from the pistons? Or just leave them on? I don't want to risk breaking them but I also don't want to scratch the cylinders. Which is the lesser of the 2 evils?


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: Sonreir on May 24, 2017, 16:49:25
Leave the piston rings off until you're ready for assembly.
Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on May 24, 2017, 21:49:42
My measurements are coming in between .047" and .051"  at the wrist pins so I guess I'll be ordering a .050" base gasket from Lani.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170525/03a94f08ce430e76943065b51ab5071c.jpg)


Measured the base gasket I had on there and it came in at about .018" so that wasn't helping me much at all.

I double checked that the cylinder positioning dowels weren't preventing the cylinders to sit right down flat on the case.

And checked that the head positioning dowels wouldn't do the same. It looks like the head doesn't sit flat just because of the rubber seals around the 2 rear dowels. I assume that's normal and that they'll compress when the studs are torqued down to form a tight seal.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170525/eb6fe05e8fbef61d87e2f8497196e26b.jpg)





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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on May 25, 2017, 14:18:17
Check there isn't any sealer inside the holes for seals, it can cause them to sit proud. They will compress to form a good seal. (better than stock with the 0.008" or so you removed to get things flat) You are using new ones? (not that old ones make much difference if still 'squishy')
I would put couple of old gudgeon (piston) pins on studs, clamp down block, lock crank at TDC and measure how much pistons are sticking up.
Use that measurement in combination with the head gasket you already have to get close to 0.038" clearance.
You may need to grind dowels a bit shorter, check depth of hole both sides, add and measure dowel length to compare. There is a possibility they are slightly too long , maybe from a different motor or manufacturer?
I have seen it a couple of times with head gasket leaks, always the last thing you think of before patience finally disappears  ;) (just walk away, walk away  ;D )
Anything I post at present will be about head and base gaskets.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on May 25, 2017, 16:38:46
what is the 0.038" clearance between?
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on May 26, 2017, 15:14:10
what is the 0.038" clearance between?

 Between piston and head, the 'squish' area (aka quench for car engines)
You'll need some 'clay' (plasticine or playdoe?) and check the 'angled' area of head compared to crown of piston. Use a 'wet' razor blade to cut through  'clay'
Put a dusting of talc on 'clay' so it doesn't stick to head
Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jun 01, 2017, 09:03:52
Dowels are fine. I removed the rubber seals and the head sits flat. Will check squish area when I get back from ny next week.

To clarify:
1. Install cylinders w/o base gasket
2. Install head gasket
3. Put clay on piston
4. Install head w/o cam and snug down with a couple nuts
5. Rotate crank through tdc
6. Remove head
7. Cut and measure clay on angled portion of head
8. Subtract 0.038" from that measurement to get ideal base gasket thickness
9. Order base gasket with thickness closest to ideal thickness.
10. Party on

Should I measure both sides?


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Jun 02, 2017, 17:21:28
Dowels are fine. I removed the rubber seals and the head sits flat. Will check squish area when I get back from ny next week.

To clarify:
1. Install cylinders w/o base gasket
2. Install head gasket
3. Put clay on piston
4. Install head w/o cam and snug down with a couple nuts
5. Rotate crank through tdc
6. Remove head
7. Cut and measure clay on angled portion of head
8. Subtract 0.038" from that measurement to get ideal base gasket thickness
9. Order base gasket with thickness closest to ideal thickness.
10. Party on

Should I measure both sides?


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 There is a chance the motor won't turn over without any base gasket in place?
It's easier to just measure exactly how far piston is sticking up from top of cylinder to get correct clearance.
 You then 'clay' piston to verify it's correct.
You could also use a couple of base gaskets to get clearance. As long as they are in reasonable condition you can measure them with mic or caliper. You may need to add to the thickness to get correct clearance?

I used to do all piston to head clearances, inline 4 takes a little longer but shows if combustion chambers need modifying.
 If they are already modified you should only need to do one.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jun 05, 2017, 18:24:01
So it sounds like as long as I get a base gasket that brings the pistons level with the cylinders I should be damn close to 0.038" since I already have a head gasket that's 0.042" and had about 0.004" milled off the head. Correct?


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Jun 09, 2017, 15:40:58
That's exactly right  8)
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jun 26, 2017, 21:35:45
She's a runner! Got the motor back together, valves, cam chain, and carbs adjusted and synced, pamco ignition installed, timed, and fueled!

Took a short ride and she was poppin like crazy at me and the rear brake had too much travel. so I adjusted idle mix screws and re-synced the carbs.

Went for another ride and noticed the regulator was really hot so I relocated it to the bottom side of the seat tray so it gets more air.

Going to get it registered and take baby steps going longer distances. She pulls like crazy! I haven't even tried full throttle yet.

Also, she starts on one or two easy kicks every time!


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jun 26, 2017, 21:40:37
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170627/e2979ab9e6de67a75031720b6ec33f5e.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170627/1fb41246f6b67efacf89d8f86ca679e6.jpg)


Sitting pretty in the garage along with my new project I picked up. 74 ST90. Already started taking it apart. Carbs are currently taking a bath and the gas tank is de-rusting.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170627/240173e48c3024c6dda440108439215e.jpg)


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: Sonreir on Jun 27, 2017, 10:33:52
Love the deck height.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Jun 27, 2017, 14:09:31
LOL, now you know why 22cc is totally out of proportion to the power increase and is totally worth the aggravation getting it set up  8)
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jun 27, 2017, 16:52:21
Yeah definitely. I think opening up those exhaust ports really helps too. Now it's time to get a PJ378 license plate!


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Jun 29, 2017, 11:39:00
Yep, only needs mild porting on intakes, basically a few swipes with 80 grit to knock off worst of the 'bumps' then 'D ' shape the exhausts as they are pretty restrictive.
PJ378, guess everyone will know who to 'blame' when you get ticketed  ;D
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: Sonreir on Jun 29, 2017, 11:49:50
I ended up going 1mm over on my exhaust valves. I'm not disappointed.
Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jun 29, 2017, 14:12:15
That's exactly what we did too. Just de-burred the intake and opened up the top half of the exhaust ports to match up with the old squished gaskets. Didn't modify the valves though. They were seating well.

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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Jun 30, 2017, 23:25:44
Stock size exhaust valve is fine but I would go bigger on intakes if possible
I'm making some valve guides at present for 5.5mm stem 35mm valves that I think will work, won't know for sure until it's all fitted up and spun over a few times  :-X

 
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jul 13, 2017, 22:43:25
I've been getting a little kick back from my kickstarter so I decided to go through and re-set the tappets and timing. Tappets were a little loose and loud but they're good now. When I set the timing before I got it close. But this time I adjusted each circuit board to get it perfect. Also changed the "break in" oil since I've gone a few miles now.

Then I noticed the front wheel was squeaking like a mother so I just cleaned the rotor, sanded the pads, and re-set the caliper. Will go for a ride again in the next couple days to see if that did it. I did notice a tiny bump on the rotor that was rubbing on the pad so I lightly sanded that down too. The pads were dragging a lot so I wanted to adjust those anyway.

I was leaving a restaurant and It didn't want to start after a couple kicks. So I put the choke to first click and it started right up. Never had to use the choke before because it ran so rich. Haha

I'm quite happy so far. Still taking it easy and going longer distances as I get more comfortable with it. and checking everything over between rides.


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Jul 14, 2017, 13:05:15
You did check caliper piston and seal plus the pivot?
The seal gets 'pushed' by corrosion behind it and causes piston to stick.
The pivot tends to seize up, I drill and tap for a grease nipple, pictures are on Photbucket so they are 'screwed' at present (ain't paying $400.00 'ransom')
Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jul 14, 2017, 13:46:44
Yeah I rebuilt the caliper and cleaned/lubed the pivot good. I just pulled the brake fluid cap and pushed the piston in a little so it doesn't rub. If it starts to drag again I'll look into it more. May just need another final bleed too.

Just really hoping the squeaking was the brake and not the new wheel bearing.


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Jul 15, 2017, 17:38:05
I think Honda made them 'extra squeaky'  ;D
If (WHEN) they start to drag the rotor gets a real good polish/glaze and then squealing/squeaking starts
Drilled rotor seems to cure the problem when everything else is 'fixed'
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jul 19, 2017, 17:23:05
I had some time today to assess the situation. Went for a ride and at first no sound. After about 2 miles I started hearing it softly. Came back and loosened the bolts on my caliper so neither pad was touching the disc. Rocked the bike back and forth slowly and could hear a whining sound coming from the front wheel/hub. If I move it a little faster it goes away. Is that what bad wheel bearings sounds like?




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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jul 19, 2017, 19:34:16
https://youtu.be/pY2eU6rOa_Y


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jul 19, 2017, 19:35:12
I just bled my brakes and there were a couple air bubbles that came out. Maybe that'll help


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Jul 19, 2017, 23:17:24
You can get a 0.006" feeler gauge between 'back' brake pad and rotor?
The arm does swing nice and free?
 I'm hunting down various pictures at present, this is a very worthwhile modification, I've been doing it to Honda's since the late 70's early  80's
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jul 20, 2017, 09:20:33
After I pump the brakes 5 or 6 times there's no room for a feeler gauge. The pivot does seem to move nice and freely though. I'm going to take it for another ride today, get it to start making the noise, then remove the caliper completely and rock it back and forth to be sure if it's the brakes or not. Then do the same with the speedo, just because. I'll definitely consider the grease nipple. But i did put a good bit of grease in the pivot when I put everything together


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Jul 20, 2017, 11:44:59
If it's greased up well and you don't get caught in the rain too often you should be good for a few years.
Pad should 'back off' within a few seconds at worst to allow 0.006" feeler in there (assuming you set it to 0.006" in the first place)
If it isn't backing off, you probably need to clean out caliper again. Oxidation behind seal is always a problem, particularly if you ised brake fluid to lubricate seal. Use special silicon brake grease in the seal housing, very very thin coating after your sure it's completely clean. I made scrapers to clean out the groove when I worked at Honda dealers because it was so common 'back int day lad'  ;) ;D
Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jul 20, 2017, 13:47:20
Went for a ride to get it howling again. Then got back, removed the caliper, still howling. Removed the wheel, still howling. Time to dig in deeper. What parts in the wheel are you supposed to grease? I installed new all balls bearings.

https://youtu.be/tMQGnFk-VH0


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: irk miller on Jul 20, 2017, 14:25:04
Is your speedo gear lubed up?  It should be covered in a good moly grease.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jul 20, 2017, 15:18:37
It might not be. I'll check. Thanks


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: advCo on Jul 20, 2017, 16:08:34
I had the same issue on my 360. Turned out I had tapped the bearings in a hair too far when I was installing them, pinching the inner spacer too tightly between the inner races of the bearings. This caused them to hang up and in turn the wheel did not spin freely.

Once I remedied that issue with new bearings, I heard another similar squeal, which turned out to be the dust seals  rubbing on the axle without enough grease.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jul 20, 2017, 18:16:05
I think I have a very similar issue advco. If I loosen the axle nut, the wheel spins freely. But as soon as I tighten it there's serious resistance. Time to order another set of bearings.

https://youtu.be/HAyjNIhVuOk


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: advCo on Jul 20, 2017, 19:45:18
I think I have a very similar issue advco. If I loosen the axle nut, the wheel spins freely. But as soon as I tighten it there's serious resistance. Time to order another set of bearings.

Try tapping the bearings out of their seats just a smidge. If that remedies the problem you know that's it. I wouldn't run them after that, but it will help diagnose.
Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jul 21, 2017, 16:11:35
Well, I decided that if they were spinning freely with no axle but once the axle was tightened down something was binding, made sense that maybe the bearings weren't in far enough. Tapped the outer ring on each to make sure they were seated well, put the axle back on and she spins freely. I'm gonna continue riding these for now. I did order a new set so if these go out I have spares.

In the meantime I'm going to order a caliper rebuild kit and shorter brake line. The one I have on there is too long.  I have to say though, I really like this cbr master cylinder. Being able to bleed from up top is great.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: crazypj on Jul 21, 2017, 20:43:47
You CAN'T tighten the axle too much and make bearings 'stick' The outer races cannot be properly seated and need to go further into hub.
Correct procedure.
Use a tube to fit outer race into LEFT side of hub, DO NOT bang on centre of bearing A lot of people will say to use a socket but I've found the chamfer on end either slips position or prevents bearing fully seating.
Fit bearing retaining ring
Slide axle through bearing, flip wheel, fit centre spacer (it only fits properly in one direction if you still have centering 'spider' in place) position right side bearing and use tube to bash on outer race until centre is holding spacer.
Remove axle and fit from correct direction (right to left, tube nut on disc side)
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jul 22, 2017, 00:53:46
Yeah I think that was the problem. The outer races were not properly seated. So when the axle was tightened it was very slightly warping the bearing. It was a very minute amount because I didn't notice the bearing move at all after tapping the outer races again. But it definitely made a difference


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: Rusnak_322 on Jul 23, 2017, 08:59:29


I also got sick of my master cylinder leaking so I decided to buy a replacement. I wanted to upgrade if I could so I did a bunch of research and decided on a 2007 CBR RR master cylinder from someone on eBay. I needed to get a mc with separate reservoir so it wouldnt interfere with my clipon brackets. I have to say that this was my best purchase for the bike yet! This mc is much stronger than the cb360 mc. It takes less effort to brake. In addition to the performance, the ability to bleed the brakes from the master cylinder makes brake bleeding a non issue anymore. To top it all off, the levers are adjustable. What a great purchase!!! I highly recommend a cbr mc for anyone else with a vintage cb!

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/08/04/myza6uze.jpg)

I was under the impression that you couldn't use a MC from a bike with 2 disks on a bike with a single disk. Am I wrong on this? I have been searching for a new front MC for my wife's XS400 and don't want to buy used and risk getting another junk one.
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: trek97 on Jul 23, 2017, 09:57:31
I was under the impression that you couldn't use a MC from a bike with 2 disks on a bike with a single disk. Am I wrong on this? I have been searching for a new front MC for my wife's XS400 and don't want to buy used and risk getting another junk one.

Rusnak, I just put this one on my wifes CB400 and it works great (1/2 inch piston for single disk)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brake-Master-Cylinder-with-Lever-Honda-Yamaha-Suzuki-Kawasaki-Black-7-8/281199919559?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jul 23, 2017, 18:15:35
I was under the impression that you couldn't use a MC from a bike with 2 disks on a bike with a single disk. Am I wrong on this?

I hadn't heard that. Do you know why that is? This one seems to work really well.


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: Rusnak_322 on Jul 23, 2017, 18:23:04
Well the amount of fluid required to operate twice as many calipers will be more than one caliper. Same if you go from a single piston sliding caliper to a 4 piston opposed caliper.
I would think that it would make the front brake more of a on-off switch without any modulation.


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Jul 23, 2017, 18:27:10
There's plenty of travel in the cbr lever for me to be able to modulate braking force. Definitely not an on/off switch.


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Title: Re: CB360 project
Post by: guygrrr on Jul 23, 2017, 19:51:22
Excuse me while delurk on this one.

https://www.vintagebrake.com/mastercylinder.htm
Title: CB360 project
Post by: thrillseeker on Aug 20, 2017, 18:13:40
Got my front brake all sorted out. Took the caliper apart and sure enough there was a good bit of gunk behind the seal. Scraped it all out, put a new seal in with caliper grease and she's returning like a champ. I noticed the pad was binding slightly in the cylinder too so I sanded away some of the paint that was preventing it from sliding smoothly. Ebc really seemed to cake the paint on. The other thing I did was get a shorter brake line. The one I had was a little too long and kind of did a little loop so it had a high spot where air could get trapped.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170820/5fb2c651ab33567d647faf5a816f7c05.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170820/69ff9f7c8682fc4e27b644cbbd09dec2.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170820/c48825f6a50c38ca35e24b3344ea4b4b.jpg)

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