DO THE TON

Blood Sweat Tears and Grease => Projects => Cafe Racers => Topic started by: clem on Feb 03, 2013, 22:13:26

Title: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Feb 03, 2013, 22:13:26
I recently purchased an old smoker in semi rough shape. It looked like the perfect candidate to try and pull off a cafe type build so here I go.
 When I first got the bike home I checked it out for spark. Fail. Step two, inspect the wire harness, looks like the regulator is missing. Damn! I then pulled the oil tank off and drained it. Water came out first then oil. This is starting to look like a challenge;)
The bike seems to have very good compression but I have not tested it with a gauge at this point. I did order a new regulator and now I'm contemplating trying to at least get a spark going or just take the motor out now and start rebuilding it. It'll get rebuilt no matter when it comes out but I'd like to see if I can at least get it to make some kind of noise and smoke.
Overall, I'd like the bike in a yellow and black scheme like the late seventies/early eighties motocross bikes. I may do a front end change depending on costs and I'll take a swing at making the seat for it. I don't have the stock tank for it but I was planning on putting a RD400 tank on it. If anyone has one laying around hit me up cause I'd rather pass some cash to someone on here if possible. I'm already thinking about 350 cylinders with the reeds and some decent chambers, I really dig the bare cone pipes. I'll be looking for some good input from here along the way.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130127_154749.jpg)

The points don't look good either:
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130203_165523_zps211e9813.jpg)
Did I mention that it doesn't shift through the gears either? Lol

Good News:
The blinkers and tail light work!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: VonYinzer on Feb 03, 2013, 22:44:59
Nice! You'll love it. In that condition I'd suggest a complete teardown and rebuild. All new seals and gaskets are a must. No point in trying to get it running as is. Rebuild to spec and go from there. Trying to force it now could damage some internals.

If you're ditching that RD tank, let me know. I could use it

When the time comes, hit up BradJ here on DTT for chambers.

Other than the motor rebuild everything on these bikes is super simple. If you have any questions let me know. If I can help, I will.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Feb 03, 2013, 23:03:27
Von, I think your right. With it not being able to shift through the gears I'd hate to have something loose or broken off and go spinning around in there. The last two stroke that I tore down to the crank was an 89 CR125 that Iseized the lower rod bearing on so it's been awhile. Looks like it's time to strip it down.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Feb 03, 2013, 23:10:13
Oh and yea, the tank is yours. Just pm me what you think is fair.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: bradj on Feb 03, 2013, 23:11:39
Between me and von we got seveal 5 speeds if you have trans problem we got ya covered
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: VonYinzer on Feb 03, 2013, 23:15:41
Between me and von we got seveal 5 speeds if you have trans problem we got ya covered

Yup.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Feb 07, 2013, 12:24:25
Just to give an update, I bought a RD400 tank and a set of rearset from a R6(took the tip from Redbird's build). The fork legs are shot, they don't have pits in them it's more like canyons. Looking at Franks it would run about $297 + any seals, oil, etc. so I'm looking at a front end from either an EX250 or FZR600. I haven't done any research yet to see which one might be easier but I'm thinking that they both may prove to be a little work. I'm open for suggestions on the front end and I'll post some more pics when I get time to continue the dismantling.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: VonYinzer on Feb 07, 2013, 13:24:50
If you can get FZR forks, do it. You can run an FZR rotor up front with an offset. Brad fan share more detailed info as he's done this all before.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Feb 07, 2013, 16:08:04
If you can get FZR forks, do it. You can run an FZR rotor up front with an offset. Brad fan share more detailed info as he's done this all before.
Cool, I never really cared for Kawasaki anyway. If Brad lays out the plan, will it include mashing things with a hammer? ;D
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: bradj on Feb 07, 2013, 23:07:24
Ez does it . yo i got one ugly ex500 front end ill sell cheap i also got most of a fzr front end that already has a rd stem swapped into it that ill mabie sell
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Feb 08, 2013, 00:29:21
Ez does it . yo i got one ugly ex500 front end ill sell cheap i also got most of a fzr front end that already has a rd stem swapped into it that ill mabie sell
Brad I don't have a problem with hammers, I've got a few here and there. I just might take you up on a front end exchange. It could be a beautiful thing man. Is the fzr a usd?
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Feb 08, 2013, 22:14:11
I just got the new regulator and checked it out. I had spark on one cylinder but not the other. I am fine with that for now so I proceeded to take out the wiring and man that was so stiff. The wires were hard like an armadillo. I guess that will get chunked in the trash.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130208_165224_zps739dc3f0.jpg)
I scored this tank for a very good deal, I bought it sight unseen from Alpha heaven and it worked out well, this thing is clean!
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130208_170340_zpsa75f525b.jpg)
besides some scratches on the stickers it's nice
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130208_170331_zps16059e89.jpg)
my wife is going to like the next step.... going to hobby lobby to get some foam blocks :)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: bradj on Feb 09, 2013, 01:38:43
That fork isnt usd
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Feb 09, 2013, 10:05:33
That fork isnt usd
That's perfect man. I've been digging your rd from hell, the fab work is coming out smoking.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: Redbird on Feb 09, 2013, 13:06:37
Posting so I can keep track ;)

Clem, hit me up if you need anything.
Just a heads up... don't slide the 400 tank all the way forward when you fab up the rear mount. The petcock will hit the cylinder head if you do.

If you have spark on one side, try swapping the coil wires and see if the spark swaps sides as well. That'll tell ya if it's a coil problem or a points/condenser problem.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: VonYinzer on Feb 09, 2013, 13:13:25
Clem...

Take Brad up on those EX500 forks. They should be a bearing swap away from being awesome.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Feb 09, 2013, 16:19:04
Posting so I can keep track ;)

Clem, hit me up if you need anything.
Just a heads up... don't slide the 400 tank all the way forward when you fab up the rear mount. The petcock will hit the cylinder head if you do.

If you have spark on one side, try swapping the coil wires and see if the spark swaps sides as well. That'll tell ya if it's a coil problem or a points/condenser problem.
About how far back did you set yours? The tank doesn't have a petcock on it right now.
I already yanked the wires out. If money allows I may go with an electronic ignition.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Feb 09, 2013, 16:20:00
Clem...

Take Brad up on those EX500 forks. They should be a bearing swap away from being awesome.
I will gladly take your advice.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: bradj on Feb 09, 2013, 16:35:04
Flip your orange tank and the 400 tank unside down and line up the front mounts match the orange tank or cut the fins on the head
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Feb 09, 2013, 22:13:50
I worked on the bike a little more today. Started the seat mold and took some more rusty stuff off. I found this little dude.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130209_145912_zps2bc9511a.jpg)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: Redbird on Feb 09, 2013, 23:51:19
About how far back did you set yours? The tank doesn't have a petcock on it right now.
Wait for the petcock before you weld on the rear mount. I can get you some exact measurements, but basically I just slid mine back until it looked like the petcock had enough clearance. It's set back roughly 3/4".
 
And you should check with Smajure (Scott) about the Chinoy he has. It's a tad pricey, but it is a complete package that includes the ignition, regulator/rectifier, wiring harness, etc. Complete from headlight to taillight and all plug and play.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Feb 10, 2013, 10:44:32
Chris, I looked at the ones from HVC and economy cycle but don't recall the brand. I figured between that , the chambers and 350 conversion that I'd break the bank.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: bradj on Feb 11, 2013, 00:09:19
I had a smart guy run all the dg pipe numbers through a real deal 2stroke tunner program.  there great pipes for the rpm range of a stock/mild motor.the million dollar hydroformed pipes will rev way past the safe rpms
of a stock crank and ports. so there pretty, expensive, and way over kill for a stock 350.  take a hard look at dgs man there cheap there time tested and they work. There not the best pipe out there but there the best pipe for the money by far.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Feb 11, 2013, 10:55:56
thanks for the tip Brad. I had a DG pipe on an old '83 Rm125 that someone gave me years ago. It wasn't a bad pipe at all as far as craftsmanship. I'll ask a dumb nonsense question:
I have never ridden or owned a 2-stroke street bike. The last smoker I had was a 2001 CR250 and I sold that back in 2006. So how would an RD feel if compared to the old motocrosser? I mean, I know that I won't be blowing up berms and whipping it over triple jumps but I'm thinking a bit more narrow powerband? I really don't know what to expect but man I'm freaking pumped up to get this thing rolling.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: Redbird on Feb 11, 2013, 16:38:58
Mine is a little sluggish until about 2500rpm. Then it pulls up to redline. The old girl has embarrassed a couple of 250 Ninjas ;)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Feb 11, 2013, 20:57:12
I started on the seat mold with this:
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130209_145856_zps2cbe6ce9.jpg)
and then wound up with this:
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130211_054455_zps28da1bd2.jpg)
I don't know if I like it a whole lot. I wanted to blend a little new with old and I think that I may drop those dreams and just do a traditional ducktail type with the same indents as the tank but going in the opposite direction. It's Mardi Gras here so I'm off tomorrow and I'll work on it more and try to get it finalized.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Feb 12, 2013, 18:12:16
I got the seat done now I need some fiberglass and wax and patience....
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130212_155015_zpsfd7a6f17.jpg)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: VonYinzer on Feb 12, 2013, 18:34:47
Man. I think that looks great. Cool shape. Don't worry about wax. Use heavy aluminum foil. Glass won't stick to it, and its simple to work into the shape of the mold.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Feb 12, 2013, 19:13:22
Sounds like I could of used the foil straight over the foam? The tape has some  pockets but I am  going to deal with that during the fiberglass stage. Good tip Von.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: VonYinzer on Feb 12, 2013, 20:18:42
Hell. If you don't plan on reusing the mold, you could cover it in anything that would protect it from the resin (the resin will very quickly melt the foam) and go to town. Once its cured you just scrape all the foam out and you're done. Messy but effective. Looks like you may end up having to do that anyhow due to the shape of the mold, but its hard to tell for sure from your pics.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Feb 15, 2013, 19:58:20
Well its friday night and the wife is going eat with her girlfriends, the kids are at the mother in laws and I've got a couple of newcastles that a bud left in the fridge. Going to be up late;)
Got these in the mail and the fiberglass material for the seat.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130215_172133_zps98c4da5f.jpg)
They don't seem like an easy fit but we'll make them work.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: Redbird on Feb 15, 2013, 21:30:12
Mine weren't too bad. Coupla added mounts is all. The shifter attaches to the rearset on mine though.

You'll want to use the brake light switch for the rearsets. And consider making the brake linkage attach to the stock pivot, instead of directly like I did. The geometry works out better in the long run ;)

I'm a little booked up this weekend and next with my son leaving. But after that, I'd be happy to take a ride down and give ya a hand.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: bradj on Feb 15, 2013, 21:33:02
I got fath in ya
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Feb 15, 2013, 23:25:53
I got the rearsets figured out. I had a brake linkage from a crf50 laying around and it worked out perfectly. I need to fab the brackets for the top bolt on the rearset. I am just going to weld it from thenrear framw rail to the middle one and tap holes in three places so that they are adjustable. They will just pivot on the lower bolt.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130215_194153_zps98d86f4f.jpg)
I will have to modify the shift lever to work on the bike by cutting the little arm that the linkage connects too and flip it up at about a 90 degree angle from the pedal. I'll also have to drill out the rearset for the shifter to mount to.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130215_195609_zpsa8dcae0b.jpg)
The kickstart misses the brake pedal too.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130215_194557_zps794d1814.jpg)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Feb 15, 2013, 23:31:35
I want to give Redbird some credit here on the rearsets, it's straight out of his build thread. Thanks Redbird I read your build a few times already, heck, I even read it on two stroke world just for fun ;) Hopefully our schedules can work out soon.
And Brad, you da man.
Man This bike is rusty.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: jpmobius on Feb 16, 2013, 10:32:38
Hi clem, really enjoying your build.  I'm signed up.  I have a real appreciation for anyone sorting out their own rear sets.  I think you have to do it yourself to appreciate that there is a lot more to it than it might seem at first.  I wanted to mention one of the problems with pull rod mechanical systems in case you haven't sorted it through.

The problem lies in the fact that, if the pull rod pivot (at the pedal belcrank) and the swing arm pivot are not coincident , the required rod length distance changes as the suspension moves through it's travel.  If the pull rod pivot is both very close to the swing arm pivot AND very close to being on a line drawn between the swing arm pivot and the brake arm/pull rod pivot, AND the swing arm rotation is small, the problem is insignificant.  Move even a little bit too far away, and the problem becomes noticeable.

The up shot is, if the above criteria is not considered, there will be oscillation in the brake pedal as the bike goes over bumps and the suspension moves.  This occurs in the factory set up, but it is so small it is not noticeable (at least by me)

You can observe this very easily.  support your motorcycle on the center stand, remove the shocks, and move the suspension through its travel.  You will see the brake lever move.  If you run a very tight pedal set up, that is the "up" pedal stop is adjusted for a low pedal and the brake rod adjustment is set for a very short "throw", it could be possible to engage the brake with large suspension deflections.  You can observe this also by clamping your pedal in one place while the suspension is at ride height, and then moving the suspension through its travel.  You will see the brake arm move.  Whether this is a problem or even dangerous depends on all the variables.

I really hate an oscillating pedal, and performance riding with one is out of the question.  I have built quite a few rear sets and if I have to keep the mechanical drum I use a cable system if I can't either keep the factory pivot or dream up a new one with very close geometry.  Cables have their own issues, but are super flexible in geometry possibilities.  Pull rod systems are really rugged and reliable, even elegant in their simplicity but you can not escape the kinematics required to make them work properly.

Keep up the good work - DS-7's are a BLAST!!

Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: Redbird on Feb 16, 2013, 18:05:14
jp nailed it. That's why I mentioned using the factory pivot. When I had my linkage run with the drum lever pulling from the underside the oscilation was noticable. Barely, but noticable. I moved it to a top pull when I changed my shocks, and now it's annoying. And as jp mentioned, in deep suspension travel, it will engauge the brake. Slightly, but enough that I can feel it.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: Swagger on Mar 06, 2013, 14:25:54
I like cable brakes for just that reason but......I somehow think it won't be an issue for you any longer.....nudge....nudge....
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Mar 13, 2013, 20:45:23
Well this thing slid back to page 5 so I know that I've been slacking. So here is where I stand:

I got the brackets made for the rearsets and set them up for three positions. They wound up getting tapped to accept a bolt.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130303_173635_zps91efb70e.jpg)
Mocked up:
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130303_173517_zpsb33ae142.jpg)

I bought a front end off of a 2001 ZX-6E but I need to press the stem out and replace it with the DS7 stem. I haven't measured them out but hopefully it will fit in the new lower triple. I'm also thinking of building a press for this from some 3" channel. Any thoughts on that one?
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130303_173835_zps2942de25.jpg)

I really had no clue how much work goes into a fiberglass seat. Three weekends and still not happy. Sanding is not my friend but I don't want a crap job when it's done so we will become very close.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130312_154626_zpsb1d32818.jpg)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: VonYinzer on Mar 13, 2013, 20:48:48
Looks good fella. Keep at it.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Mar 13, 2013, 20:49:00
Oh and thanks Jp and redbird on the heads up about the rear brakes. The further away(back) from the swingarm pivot, the more it gets amplified. Swagger actually hooked me up with a couple of bits to resolve that issue permanetly ;)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Mar 26, 2013, 22:13:19
I finally made some noteworthy progress. I mounted the 2008 EX250 swingarm and wheels. I still need to have the stem from the ZX-6E front end machined down since it is too long, hopefully that can happen this weekend. I am going to have to have some rear shock mounts welded to the swingarm, powder coat the wheel and mount tires. Hopefully after those few things are done I can pull the motor and go through that thing. I have the go ahead to get a building permit to get started on the shed addition. This thing is only 10 x 20 but I'm going to add another 20x 20 onto it! Can't wait.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130326_182821_zps1748dfc3.jpg)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: bradj on Mar 26, 2013, 22:31:10
Rad
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: Swagger on Mar 26, 2013, 23:29:11
Secksy!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: VonYinzer on Mar 26, 2013, 23:29:45
Badass man. Keep at it.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Mar 29, 2013, 10:14:58
I wanted to add a little clarification to this since I haven't posted much detail on the swaps. The DS7 swingarm is 200mm at the pivot. The EX250 swingarm is 205mm at the pivot, thus it had to be cut down on both sides. It actually cuts down to the bearing races on both sides and uses the DS7 thrust washers. The steering stem on the 2001 zx 6e triple is 27mm at the base (part that presses into the triple) and the DS7 is 25mm so I chose to turn the zx 6e triple down the the correct length. The o.d of the zx 6e stem will work with a bearing and race swap. The front wheel from the EX250 will need to have the race bored out as there are no bearings available to match the o.d. of the EX250 wheel and the axle size of the zx 6e. It would have been way easier to use a EX250 front end but the forks were bought before the wheels. I hope that this can help someone else looking to do a similar swap.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: Swagger on Mar 29, 2013, 14:40:12
So rather than going that route......make an axle (or use an EX axle) to suit and use collars in the forks like the ZX7 forks do. Even easier....have a ZX axle turned to suit the EX bearings. That's going to be loads less expensive than boring the wheel for new bearings. I'm quite surprised no bearings could be sourced....did you try an actual bearing house? Industrial bearing suppliers deal with wacky shit like this all day long....
What are the specs needed for a no-machining solution? Maybe I can help track down bearings.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Mar 29, 2013, 17:15:53
Swagger, I did look around for bearings but I may have missed it. One of my friends has a mill and said that he could do it no sweat. The main problem is that the od of the wheel races are too close to the od of the axle. I don't know how reliable a bearing that thin would be up front. I didn't even think of axle spacers, thanks for the idea. I'll post up some dimensions this afternoon.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Mar 30, 2013, 11:34:32
Swagger the outside diameter of the wheel race is 34mm and the zx 6e axle is 20mm. The closest size bearing that I could find is a 6904-2RS.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Mar 30, 2013, 15:17:27
Got to give it up to Swagger, The ZX axle will be turned down. That is the least amount of headache since we will only have to make the threaded collar for one end of the axle. We can also use the EX250 speedo drive, seals and stock bearings. My buddy Don said that will be the quickest route. Did you realize that I was no Machinist? Lol. Thanks for the insight found on this board.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: VonYinzer on Mar 30, 2013, 15:33:14
Awesome. Now get to work!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: Swagger on Mar 30, 2013, 19:41:53
Glad it came together!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Apr 21, 2013, 21:25:50
Finally I've got a couple of updates. I did order a new petcock to locate the tank mounting position, got the axle turned down and the stem swapped out. I also got the rear master cylinder/caliper all hooked up along with a few misc. oem parts for the rear wheel. Oh and vortex clip-ons too.
Here is the DS7 stem pressed into the 2001 zx-6E lower triple. Note that the lower portion of the DS7 stem had to be turned down to press fit into the new triple. Bearing size on the DS7 was 30mm I.D. while the ZX-6E was 28mm I.D.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130421_183211_zps7f6f1498.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130421_183211_zps7f6f1498.jpg.html)
The top portion of the DS7 stem had to be turned down also to fit the upper triple clamp right above the second set of threads.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130421_183423_zps17c4a724.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130421_183423_zps17c4a724.jpg.html)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130421_183450_zps76f1c62e.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130421_183450_zps76f1c62e.jpg.html)

The front axle was turned down to 15mm for the EX250 wheels and we included the spacer in the axle.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130421_184042_zps791c7c84.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130421_184042_zps791c7c84.jpg.html)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130421_183657_zps5af063f3.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130421_183657_zps5af063f3.jpg.html)
The right side was a collar so we remade a new collar to accept the turned down axle and also included a spacer in the collar.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130421_184105_zps655e869d.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130421_184105_zps655e869d.jpg.html)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130421_183711_zps15b35c8e.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130421_183711_zps15b35c8e.jpg.html)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130421_184236_zps542ddf5d.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130421_184236_zps542ddf5d.jpg.html)
The front axle:
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130421_184128_zps44491766.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130421_184128_zps44491766.jpg.html)
Next up is to decide on a mono shock or add dual mounts on the swinger. Any thoughts on that one?
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: bradj on Apr 22, 2013, 01:56:18
Well this old girl came a long way I recal a rusted to fuck picture you posted in the thing I just bought thread, now look at cha. I love it
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Apr 22, 2013, 06:33:57
Well this old girl came a long way I recal a rusted to fuck picture you posted in the thing I just bought thread, now look at cha. I love it
It was so rusted that the rusty things just started falling off. It kinda reminded me of one of those titanic artifacs. I wouldn't doubt for a minute that since it came from new orleans that it didn't spend a day or two under water for hurricane katrina.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Jun 15, 2013, 00:52:56
I've been out of pocket for about a month working 13 hours a day 7 days a week but I guess it's cool because I have some extra dough for the bike.
I removed the engine and tore it down. It was full of milky oil in there! Nothing internal was rusted up to badly despite water intrusion into the engine. The cylinders appear to be okay and you can still see the hone marks on the wall. I didn't check the I.D. on them yet though. I finally got it to shift through the gears once I found out that the shift forks were stuck to their shafts. So next week I'm going to send the crank to Lyn Garland to go through(whether it needs it or not). I figured since I have it this far down that I should just get it done. Got the wheels back from the powder coater and they look cool. I'll put up some picks of them once the tires go on. Oh and I have a GSXR600 shock for the back end ;)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130527_144931_zps9af3bc71.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130527_144931_zps9af3bc71.jpg.html)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130527_115923_zps75c21f46.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130527_115923_zps75c21f46.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Jun 23, 2013, 00:10:23
Sent the crank out Friday to get rebuilt and I've been degreasing and blasting bit's and pieces here and there. I got some prices on tires and ouch! it isn't cheap. Seems like the hardest part with this build for me is control. I originally was going to just get new fork tubes. Then I said what the heck, I should just get new forks and save a few bucks LOL! The next step was when Swagger posted up some nice wheels for sale. I thought to myself and again pulled the trigger. Well then the back wheel is to wide for the stock swing arm so I thought again and bought the proper swing arm for the wheels. When I got the swing arm in the paint was so good on it that I said, " I can't mess up that finish, plus I'll save a few bucks not having to paint it after I would add the dual shock mounts". Next step, buy a mono shock. Now I'm finding myself wanting to graft a newer style rear cowl on it from maybe a early to mid 90's sport bike to blend a little old with new.
Question: When will this stop?
I still would like to fit in an electronic ignition and some stainless JL pipes but at this rate that may get tough.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: stroker crazy on Jun 23, 2013, 00:58:02

Question: When will this stop?


When you run out of money or patience!

Crazy
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Jun 23, 2013, 20:44:08
Quick question on the  needle bearing for the shift drum, is it just press fitted? Not to clear in the manual that I have. Thanks
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Jun 30, 2013, 19:30:04
Inching along this weekend. I burnt up my band saw and angle grinder but managed to get a little done on the rear end.
I bought some 1-1/2" x 2" tubing to make the upper shock mount. I still need to figure out the exact position of this support, right now it can rotate up or down a few millimeters.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130628_201158_zpsf234d63a.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130628_201158_zpsf234d63a.jpg.html)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130629_150537_zps07596030.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130629_150537_zps07596030.jpg.html)
I did make one of the lower linkage brackets but this was about the time that things were literally falling apart. Porta bands are expensive, so to keep this rolling right now I may go pick one up at harbor freight this week and save some cash for bike parts. When I get the saw, I'll make two new brackets. This one can now be considered a test piece.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130630_155236_zpsbaacf773.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130630_155236_zpsbaacf773.jpg.html)
It wasn't cool when this came flying off at me, don't know how I didn't get hurt.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130630_155159_zps9e27337a.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130630_155159_zps9e27337a.jpg.html)
So now I have this, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel but it's very dim. Once I get the crank done and paid for I'll be buying some new tires and check the ride height before the shock mounts get welded out. Enjoy the week fella's!
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130630_155349_zpsfc4d60ed.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130630_155349_zpsfc4d60ed.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: bradj on Jun 30, 2013, 19:49:17
Rad stuff man if you need any engine parts let me know
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Jun 30, 2013, 20:18:10
Rad stuff man if you need any engine parts let me know
Thanks Brad, I have been eyeing up a couple of 350 transmissions on ebay. Is there any benefit with that trans while still having the 250 jugs on?
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: bradj on Jun 30, 2013, 22:10:27
Thanks Brad, I have been eyeing up a couple of 350 transmissions on ebay. Is there any benefit with that trans while still having the 250 jugs on?
not sure unless you are running a 5 speed then i would say do it. we got a few rd trans sets so hit me or von with a offer befor you throw money at ebay
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Jul 01, 2013, 21:50:50
I would like some feed back on this. Let me know if Im smoking something or am about to jack something up. It looks wrong but every once in awhile something about it seems right.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/DS7Mockup1_zpseaeed43d.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/DS7Mockup1_zpseaeed43d.jpg.html)
or even this
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/DS7Mockup2_zps67aa5110.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/DS7Mockup2_zps67aa5110.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: Rich Ard on Jul 01, 2013, 23:00:20
I think the second one is neat. If you go back several pages in the "craigslist cafe" bike thread there's one done up like that with an air force theme.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: johnu on Jul 01, 2013, 23:07:30
Love the wheels!!  They must be EX650 yes?  Not sure about the seat/tail looks too big imho.  If it was my project I would look at the honda RS250/125 seat/tail unit (modified to lose the lower wings that go lower than the frame rails).  End of the day though you know what you like so go with what you think is right!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Jul 02, 2013, 06:14:52
Richard, I saw that bike on ebay. a couple of weeks ago. I think that he had modified R6 stuff on it. I got the same feeling when looking at that bike, looked cool but something about looked wrong.
 John, I think you're right about the size, just a little too big. I tried to maych up the wheels on the bikes in the two pics so they woud be close to the same size. I'll look at some of the 250 stuff, IIf that doesnt work then I may go for the airtech TZ750 seat of try the metal fab like you did on your build. Oh and the wheels are 2008 EX 250, powdercoated gold. Thanks
The whole goal is to blend a little new with the old in the body work. Ill keep chipping away and hopefully something its me.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: johnu on Jul 02, 2013, 17:08:20
I think you will find a seat/tail to suit your bike from Airtech, they have so many to choose from and you are probably right one of the TZ tails would work.  Making your own tail is great because you end up with something unique, however the time involved is extensive, at least for me it was.  Next bike I build I will use something pre made and modify it to suit my needs.

My next bike could be a Yamaha (LC/RZ 350)so I will continue to follow your build and see how it turns out and maybe get some ideas from you.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: Redbird on Jul 02, 2013, 20:09:30
I would like some feed back on this...

Blech! But it might just be me ;) :P
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Jul 02, 2013, 22:38:33
Redbird your words are enough for me. Air tech it is. Ran down to the harbor for lunch to pick up a cheapo port-a-band to cut some brackets for the linkage mount. I'll probably round off the bottoms over the holidays.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130702_195102_zpsdf665bf9.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130702_195102_zpsdf665bf9.jpg.html)
You can't tell from the pic but the flat bumper steel under the frame(for the center stand stop) is in the way and will need to be removed. I'll save the fireworks for the 4th.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130702_200509_zps2021cf7e.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130702_200509_zps2021cf7e.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Jul 02, 2013, 22:40:46
I think you will find a seat/tail to suit your bike from Airtech, they have so many to choose from and you are probably right one of the TZ tails would work.  Making your own tail is great because you end up with something unique, however the time involved is extensive, at least for me it was.  Next bike I build I will use something pre made and modify it to suit my needs.

My next bike could be a Yamaha (LC/RZ 350)so I will continue to follow your build and see how it turns out and maybe get some ideas from you.
Thanks John, I do have a seat that I made for it but I'm not 100% sold on it and it was a PITA. I'm usually pretty crafty and believe that anybody can do anything with the right amount of effort and patience. I just didn't enjoy the dust and sticky stuff everywhere. ;D
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Jul 04, 2013, 18:39:51
Woke up early to try to get something done on the bike. I did pretty well.
I added some meat to the steering stop so the triple clamps would no longer slap my tank. I also tacked up the shock mounts both upper and lower. I got a scare for a second when I first took it off of the stand. The shock wouldn't budge at all. I thought maybe the linkage was too tight or the shock was shot. Come to find out the shock spring preload was way to tight. I backed it off and all is well. Lyn Garland called and said that the crank is ready and really wasn't in bad shape at all. No deep rust or seized spots. Once I get that paid and out the way I'll spring for new tires. Major stuff left:
- Rebuild motor
- Fab up front caliper bracket(should be easy)
- Decide on a seat(should be hard)
- Add tank mounting tabs
- Clean off excess tabs from frame
- Paint
That should be the big stuff that is left since the suspension is done.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130704_135506_zpsb94954b1.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130704_135506_zpsb94954b1.jpg.html)
I am going to do the remaining welding on the mounts when the bike gets stripped down. I am going to tie the lower supports into the lower engine mounts for added strength.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130704_135542_zpsf500c5c1.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130704_135542_zpsf500c5c1.jpg.html)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130704_143425_zpsbfbbd2d1.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130704_143425_zpsbfbbd2d1.jpg.html)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130704_135608_zpsb37e44ea.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130704_135608_zpsb37e44ea.jpg.html)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130704_135621_zps01677a03.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130704_135621_zps01677a03.jpg.html)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130704_143412_zps2a101065.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130704_143412_zps2a101065.jpg.html)
Title: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: neevo on Jul 04, 2013, 19:12:36
Someone much cleverer than me would know, but is that upper shock mount strong enough?

Looks like it could twist off the welds.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Jul 04, 2013, 19:41:59
Neevo it will be welded to the engine mount. I cut the tubular to overlay the top and bottom of the upper engine mount. That shoukd keep it from twisting off. I tried to replicate what is on the ex250 that the components came off of. I may be way off but I believe that there will be less force generated in a linkage system. Same concept as the old pully and lever principles.  Thanks.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Aug 01, 2013, 23:25:32
I haven't done a whole lot in the last couple of weeks but I figured that I'd post some info to show what's going on.
I made a bracket for the rear brake reservoir from the leftover tubular:
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130705_143514_zps35bbace2.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130705_143514_zps35bbace2.jpg.html)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130705_143603_zps8bde831c.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130705_143603_zps8bde831c.jpg.html)
I finally got around to making the rear tank mounts for the RD400 tank:
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130706_182329_zpsd417e269.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130706_182329_zpsd417e269.jpg.html)
I got the crank back from Lyn and it came back looking great, really like new. I need to take some pics of that.
I got a nice box of 6-speed from Brad and the gasket and seal kit to put the engine back together. I just need to finish cleaning the cases for that to happen
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130730_193916_zpsce892f8d.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130730_193916_zpsce892f8d.jpg.html)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130730_193931_zpsa7a258fd.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130730_193931_zpsa7a258fd.jpg.html)
and somehow I need it to stop raining for longer than two days to make more progress on this project:
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130713_160346_zpsd644de46.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130713_160346_zpsd644de46.jpg.html)
I was really trying to get this together for Barber but I think that may be pushing it. I am going to just take it one step at a time so that everything stays legit and I don't rush through anything.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Aug 17, 2013, 18:08:34
Making some progress here. I got my wheel back from the powder coater after some brake fluid ruined it for me. Darren at Cajun Powder Coating re-did the wheel at half price even though it was all my fault. He also blasted a 1970 CT70 frame for me for nothing. Good dude. Anyway, I thought that I would try out one of those youtube shortcuts on the tire installations and it went okay:
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130817_140410_zps83a3106b.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130817_140410_zps83a3106b.jpg.html)
About 2 minutes later:
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130817_141415_zpsc2557669.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130817_141415_zpsc2557669.jpg.html)
I took my hacksaw and file and made a front brake caliper adapter. I still need to smooth it out but looks good so far.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130817_150107_zps22847752.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130817_150107_zps22847752.jpg.html)
Now I have a roller!
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130817_145904_zpscf4f87b3.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130817_145904_zpscf4f87b3.jpg.html)
I'm thinking about using the stock oil tank but I'm not 100% sold on the looks.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130817_152050_zpsf25710e3.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130817_152050_zpsf25710e3.jpg.html)
I started cleaning up the cases Here one is fresh from the oven. The wife busted me but she was pretty cool about it.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130803_145450_zpsa60cd254.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130803_145450_zpsa60cd254.jpg.html)
And the rebuilt crank came a pretty darn clean. Big difference from when I first cracked open the cases.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130817_103523_zpsc1d2d084.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130817_103523_zpsc1d2d084.jpg.html)
I should be able to get the bottom end buttoned up today.
My dad talked to one of his old buddies who happened to have a Daytona special that he wants to sell. I really didn't know a good price for one but he wanted $3K for it. He said that he also has a 78 RD400 in good shape with a seized crank, another 400 engine, a couple of tanks and possibly a set of 350 jugs that he'll throw in the deal. I told him that the Daytona was probably worth $2200 but would have to look at the other stuff. The Daytona leaks oil out of every point possible but it does run. Maybe I went to high on the price? I told him that I need to finish the 250 first and he was cool with that. He said whenever I'm ready that the bike will be there.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130816_120136_zps69c8e78d.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130816_120136_zps69c8e78d.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 17, 2013, 19:47:23
I don't know about prices in your neck of the woods, but here in Oz I would go for it.  The Daytona looks pretty straight, and the other bits could possibly be turned into a spare bike.

The monoshock is looking real good, it's going to be some bike when completed!

Crazy
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Aug 17, 2013, 20:01:32
Thanks Crazy. I'm really digging on the gold and black but then again I'm a bit of a saints fan. I bought my first car and street motorcycle from the guy with the Daytona back when I was in school. He's been a good friend of the family for awhile. I may try to find someone to split the deal with when I buy it.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: bradj on Aug 17, 2013, 23:18:03
Looks rad your parts are going out Monday I dug my rd out the outer day I gotta get back on it soon
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: bradj on Aug 17, 2013, 23:22:37

(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130127_154749.jpg)


ant much changed haha
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Aug 17, 2013, 23:32:44
Thanks Brad. I posted the transmission spreadsheet that we talked about in the 1 800 cafe help.
I still got a cup of rust leftover from that pic if you need it.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: Redbird on Aug 18, 2013, 18:59:56
I may try to find someone to split the deal with when I buy it.
My phone better be one of the first ones to ring ;) :P
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: johnu on Aug 18, 2013, 21:30:05
Clem, bike is looking great!  Wish I had gone with EX250 wheels now instead of EX650, I might still swith the rear for the 250 wheel. 
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: VonYinzer on Aug 18, 2013, 22:14:25
Looking great Clem! Good to talk with you yesterday as well. Keep it up, and like I said on the phone; if you need anything for the bike, just shoot me a call.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Aug 18, 2013, 23:31:00
My phone better be one of the first ones to ring ;) :P
Chris, Ive got a buddy that digs bikes but never pulled the trigger on one yet. If he doesn't bite, I'm calling you man!
Clem, bike is looking great!  Wish I had gone with EX250 wheels now instead of EX650, I might still swith the rear for the 250 wheel. 
Thanks John, I'm still tripping on your bike. It's bad dude. I really think that there are engineers in Austria at the KTM factory turning out those trick orange parts for you as we speak.
Looking great Clem! Good to talk with you yesterday as well. Keep it up, and like I said on the phone; if you need anything for the bike, just shoot me a call.
Same here Mike. I think that I remember shaking your hand now last year when I was dropping off the jerky at the tent. I booked a room today for Barber so I'll be there for sure this year but not sure what I'll be riding. I'll be looking for DTT name tags or dudes with moonshine hangovers! Haha

Alright. I got the cases buttoned up. I used the old rusty bolts for a real hipster retro look...not really, Im going to replace them slowly one at a time and put lock washers on the as per MD from PA so that the engine does bust open when it's screaming down the road. I straightend out a couple of bent fins and painted the cylinders but didnt take pics of that yet.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130817_174933_zps51f14e5e.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130817_174933_zps51f14e5e.jpg.html)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130818_135002_zpscede4828.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130818_135002_zpscede4828.jpg.html)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130818_135233_zps85a0c554.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130818_135233_zps85a0c554.jpg.html)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130818_140425_zpsb4b1527f.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130818_140425_zpsb4b1527f.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Aug 23, 2013, 21:47:12
Well I received confirmation yesterday that the JL pipes won't fit my bike with the mono shock linkage. Bummer but at least now I won't get flogged by Von over them. I'm kind of interested in rolling my own but really don't know where to start with dimensions. Any one chime in here please. I'll be surfing the net doing research.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: bradj on Aug 24, 2013, 02:37:08
Dg number are very nice for a stock/mild port bike
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Aug 24, 2013, 12:53:23
You got those numbers?
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: VonYinzer on Aug 24, 2013, 14:59:44
Well I received confirmation yesterday that the JL pipes won't fit my bike with the mono shock linkage. Bummer but at least now I won't get flogged by Von over them. I'm kind of interested in rolling my own but really don't know where to start with dimensions. Any one chime in here please. I'll be surfing the net doing research.

What do ya want for those pipes? ;)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Aug 24, 2013, 15:12:58
Mike, I actually talked to Jim at fast from the past before I ordered them. But wait ! You clowned me about them but now you want a set?
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: VonYinzer on Aug 24, 2013, 15:59:35
Hahaha. Bustin balls man.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Aug 24, 2013, 17:30:28
I like it
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- rolling my own
Post by: clem on Aug 27, 2013, 08:39:57
I started doing some reading(Gary Jennings book) and am seriously considering making my own chambers. Looking forward, I think that it may be best to set the pipes up for a stock RD350 since that is the cylinders that will go on once the funds become available. Problem is that I don't have the exhaust port timing nor the piston to exhaust flange measurement on the 350 and don't know if it is the same as the DS7 or not. It would be great if one of the fine fellows here could point me in the right direction with this. I know that I probably won't end up with a perfectly tuned pipe but I am looking at this as a chance to learn about the principles behind the two stroke. Back when I was racing motocross we would just jet, gear and buy off the shelf pipes from pro circuit or FMF. I had a guy in the Baton Rouge area that would do porting but we never made a pipe to the modified porting specs. This will probably be a slow process but I'm cool with that. I made the mistake of trying to put a timeline on the build but see now that it was a bit foolish to do so.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: bradj on Sep 08, 2013, 03:38:21
Go bug redbird about the extra dg that the cathlic church distroyed ill bet there good enuff to measure
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 08, 2013, 05:00:23
In addition to Gordon Jenning's book, Graham Bell's 'Performance Tuning in Theory and Practice' is well worth a read, especially regarding chambers.  If you can't find a copy I can send you a pdf version.

All the porting etc. can be as good as wasted if the pipes aren't suitable.

Crazy
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Sep 08, 2013, 20:32:10
Brad I was thinking about hitting him up to get some measurements to compare to what I came up with.
Stroker, I did find a download of Bell's book along with a free software ...2Tb I believe. I did most of the calculations based off of Bell's ranges of angles for the diffusor and  baffle. The math seems to be the same between the two but it appears there is either personal or proven criteria that separate Jennings and Bell. My wife keeps telling me to just go buy a set of pipes but I think that this may be a good learning experience for me.
I put the engine in and got the clutch installed. Now I need to finish blasting the side covers so that I can polish the raised edges before they get powder coated. The  wrist pin bearings that were sent with the crank were too wide for the 250 pistons so a new pair are on the way. I added mounting brackets to the seat and got a new oil tank that will fit under the seat (stolen from JohnU) so that will be a little more fab work. It's getting there.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130907_175452_zps81222573.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20130907_175452_zps81222573.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 08, 2013, 20:49:48
The bike is looking great Clem!

Are you aiming for peak power with your chambers or going more for mid-range spread?

Crazy
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Sep 08, 2013, 21:09:29
Low to mid hit. As long as I can break 70mph I'm happy! Lol! I went with the upper end of Bell's multiplier for the header legnth. Like around 8. Thanks for the good words.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 08, 2013, 21:35:07
I'm with you on that - I much prefer a bike with strong acceleration than one that only has high top speed.

Crazy
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Sep 08, 2013, 21:51:04
Yeah, the 70 mph was a joke referring to my cb160. Everytime I pull out on the highway I almost feel like I need to push.Haha.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Oct 07, 2013, 14:51:56
I made it this far. Working on the other side
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20130928_153534_zps9f35c1c4.jpg)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: VonYinzer on Oct 07, 2013, 15:18:40
That pipe looks amazing. Great job man!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: DesmoBro on Oct 07, 2013, 15:21:35
Looks awesome Nice work
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: bradj on Oct 07, 2013, 15:43:30
My man  8) thats a great looking bike between 9 and 10in of 1in pipe is a good stinger size to start with. if you run the some of that inside your last cone it will kill some of the noise and not affect the power. by the looks of what you got ypu already know that.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: JustinLonghorn on Oct 07, 2013, 16:12:25
Dead sexy, man!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Oct 07, 2013, 16:13:15
Thanks guys. I did read about the stinger thing Brad but there was one thing that I am unclear on. Is the silencer length to be included in the stinger length? Like if I had a calculated stinger length of 220mm and used a silencer that was  200mm long, would I need 20mm of stinger added? I could not verify this in either book that I read.
And on the noise, Iíve got an open field next to my house and thereís a dumb kid in the neighborhood with a CRF450. That bike is loud, way loud. Too loud to be next to my house. Now you know that I love motorcycles but that bike needs to be on a motocross track not ridden in a straight line back and forth next to my house. When the DS7 is back together and running I am not going to worry about the noise because to me, ring ding is not noise, brapppp coming from a 4 stroke dirt bike is noise. I despise what 4 strokes have done to motocross and it is one reason that I stopped riding moto. Did I just rant?
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: johnu on Oct 07, 2013, 16:44:47
Nice work Clem, I know how difficult making pipes is ;)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: stroker crazy on Oct 07, 2013, 18:26:23
I made it this far Ö

Beautiful job Clem!

I believe stinger length is calculated to where pressure drop occurs.  A muffler, being effectively of larger diameter than the stinger, doesn't count toward the length.  I hope this makes sense, sometimes I just can't figure out how to express myself clearly!

Crazy
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Oct 07, 2013, 18:40:20
Nice work Clem, I know how difficult making pipes is ;)
John your pipes inspired me. After I was told the JL pipes would not fit my bike I was driven. You were the wind beneath my wings dear brother.

Stroker, Thanks for the explanation it clarifies things for me.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: Floegstad on Oct 19, 2013, 14:44:07
AAAawesome building Clem.
Really enjoying this one!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Oct 19, 2013, 15:22:13
I finally got the other pipe fabbed up. Now I need to weld them up and make brackets and exhaust flanges. Stingers, silencers, the list goes on and on but I feel like I'm making progress slowly. These pipes were stressing me out when the second one was being fabbed. Sometimes I can sense when I'm on the road to screwing things and I know that I need to back off. I went at it again yesterday and things just started clicking. I need to pick up an ignition switch so that I can start to look at the wiring then it will be on to rebuilding the carburetors.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20131019_124511_zps2cb59329.jpg)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20131019_124527_zps02ceb4eb.jpg)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: bradj on Oct 19, 2013, 15:41:51
 8) my man
Title: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: Rich Ard on Oct 19, 2013, 16:20:19
Might be a long road Clem but I sure like where it's goin'
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Oct 19, 2013, 16:35:11
Thanks Rich Ard. The road just got a little longer because the side stand no longer fits and the kick starter will have to be modified but what the heck I'm saving this poor rust bucket right?
Brad, as a welder, would you grind the mig tacks down before welding out the joints or just go right over them?
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: stroker crazy on Oct 19, 2013, 16:44:19
Tidy pipes Clem!

I'm suffering from DS7 envy.

Crazy
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Oct 19, 2013, 16:52:36
Tidy pipes Clem!

I'm suffering from DS7]
Haha! There's something about 2t chambers that make you say "holy  crap" kind of  like  good punch to the face.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: JustinLonghorn on Oct 19, 2013, 17:06:06
Good things. Good things.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: bradj on Oct 19, 2013, 18:04:32
Ill go find a welder an ask him haha

if your tig or gas welding them cut the distance detween you current tacks in half and re tack them with a tig or what ever. then go back and grind out the mig tack
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Oct 19, 2013, 21:23:09
Sold info Brad. I just drank a blue moon for ya.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: xb33bsa on Oct 19, 2013, 22:34:02
bike is looking really good nice work but you are going to need to do something with that top shock mount
it is going to twist right off,put a strut onnit straight up to frame
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: bradj on Oct 20, 2013, 13:31:46
Sold info Brad. I just drank a blue moon for ya.
shitten in high cotton i see.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Oct 20, 2013, 15:29:32
shitten in high cotton i see.
It was in a schlitz can.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Oct 21, 2013, 21:56:17
bike is looking really good nice work but you are going to need to do something with that top shock mount
it is going to twist right off,put a strut onnit straight up to frame
I am no structural engineer, they sit on the other end of the floor. I also don't know the actual rigidity of the frame itself nor what condition the frame tubes are in on the inside. What I did do was take a gander at the setup that the suspension came off of and tried to replicate it. This is the top shock mount for the 2008 EX250:
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/842794_zps5656e57f.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/842794_zps5656e57f.jpg.html)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/842795_zpsd368a6bf.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/842795_zpsd368a6bf.jpg.html)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/842796_zpsbed14106.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/842796_zpsbed14106.jpg.html)
Now I do know that this is not the same frame and possibly not even the same grade material but I would assume that if the top shock mount was the weak link in this system or the most abused part of this system that Kawasaki would have put a little more meat on that mount.
I do have a few experiences with steel frame monoshock motocross bikes(with similar shock mounts) where more than one time I came up short on a 60 to 80ft jump hard enough to have the lower linkage dig a big chunck out of the ground and the bike held up. I only use this example because its the most abuse that I've put on a similar type setup.
It would seem that the most stressed members would be the lower linkage mount that gets pulled on as the swingarm articulates and the swingarm pivot mounts on the frame. Oh and I'm not advising anyone to do this at home!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: xb33bsa on Oct 21, 2013, 22:06:17
yeah i had looked at an ex frame  before i posted the issue with yours is how far it hangs off the tube
you are putting way more twisting force on a lighter weight/strength tube
it would be so easy to put in a strut/compresion member running up,it doesnt need to be welded, bolted in is fine
we are talking in the 500-1000 lbs of load constantly working on there
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Oct 21, 2013, 23:03:10
One thing that i did to add on mine was to overlap the top onto the rear engine mount. That way if it does twist any some would be transferred onto that point. Seems like there is a ton of data to compile, to do an acurate analysis of the system?
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: xb33bsa on Oct 21, 2013, 23:18:01
but the engine mounts are not designed for the extra loads not at all
neither are the engine cases
you just need to eliminate the flexing that you WILL have with that mount hanging out like that ...
a simple compression member run vertically to the juncture of the seat tubes and backbone will do it
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: johnu on Oct 21, 2013, 23:28:24
but the engine mounts are not designed for the extra loads not at all
neither are the engine cases
you just need to eliminate the flexing that you WILL have with that mount hanging out like that ...
a simple compression member run vertically to the juncture of the seat tubes and backbone will do it

I agree.  Clem this is good advice!
Title: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: Floyd650 on Oct 21, 2013, 23:47:10
Just read your thread to date. Super cool. I'll be following.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: bradj on Oct 22, 2013, 02:32:19
I did my rd abput the same way
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Oct 22, 2013, 21:21:32
Xb,
 Thanks for bringing this up as it caused me to dig deeper than I initially did during the fabrication. I hunted down the spring rate for the gsxr600 and found the linkage ratio for the EX250. I did consider replacing the cross member with a larger/newer tube but didn't want to mess with the engine mounts at that time but I may reconsider doing that.
I did get a bracket made for the plastic oil tank, it should hide itself under the seat nicely. I guess after payday I'll find a tail light and get that mounted in the seat pan/tail section and buy that ignition switch.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Nov 03, 2013, 21:55:50
I worked on the bike over the weekend but really had no progress worthy of photo's. I cleaned the carbs that came with the bike and through a little research, I discovered that what I have is a set of carbs for a RD350C. While this is not all a bad deal, it does cause a little grief for the immediate future. These are the carbs that I would have to have bought when I eventually went up to the 350 cylinders. The immediate problem is that I now have 4 oil injection ports for this two cylinder engine. Now I could easily just JB weld over the carburetor port but I wouldn't want to have to get a drill bit out later on and have to be precise since this is a press fit application. Two ideas that I have, and they may not be the best, are just buy two sets of the oil injector nozzles and plug one set with something or run a tube to connect the two ports together to effectively seal them off. I don't know if the latter will have any adverse effects on the fuel metering process.
The taillight bracket is tacked to the rear of the frame and the seat is cut out to fit around the taillight. I did goof up a bit on that by cutting the top portion out a bit large so I will have to lay a little more fiberglass for repair.
I did do the calculations to determine the stress transferred to the frame/top shock mount. Using .083 wall thickness for the tube and carbon steel for the material, it looks like the shear strength of the tube is well above the actual psi that will be delivered at 3" of shock travel. I will re calculate once I get the actual wall thickness of the tube. I do have some 1" x .120 DOM tube if the correct calculations show that the tube is insufficient.
The engine side covers got dropped off at the powder coat shop so when those get back I'll put up some pics.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: SONIC. on Nov 14, 2013, 12:22:57
I'm liking this.

I'm putting the same swingarm on my sr500.

What did you figure out about the upper mount?
Your bracket looks about 3x the length of the ex250 bracket, which means that the frame tube and your welds will get 3x the force as the ones on the ex250.
Could you shorten the upper bracket to move the pivot point closer to the frame? What was your reasoning for making it so long? To get  the shock as verticle as possible?

Sorry for the 20 questions, just picking your brain before I start welding  8)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: rundown on Nov 14, 2013, 21:45:13
Very impressive, especially like the way you perservered with the seat.  It was a mess but you just kept at it and I think it is exceptionally nice now, different than anyone else's, so much better than buying one.  The other area that blew me away was your learning about expansion chambers and then just building some beauties.  I'll be watching this one!!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: 50gary on Nov 14, 2013, 23:14:48
With regard to the upper shock mount, I would use two (one each side L&R) small dia. tubes and triangulate from the center of the shock mount  out to the curved frame tubes.  Triangles are strong and distribute the load.  I'd  take a close look at the lower shock mount too?   I like the linked mono-shock.  I'm currently making a linked mono conversion and just finished my upper mount.  Nice bike, and the pipes are going to be killer.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Nov 14, 2013, 23:15:45
I'm liking this.

I'm putting the same swingarm on my sr500.

What did you figure out about the upper mount?
Your bracket looks about 3x the length of the ex250 bracket, which means that the frame tube and your welds will get 3x the force as the ones on the ex250.
Could you shorten the upper bracket to move the pivot point closer to the frame? What was your reasoning for making it so long? To get  the shock as verticle as possible?

Sorry for the 20 questions, just picking your brain before I start welding  8)
No problem on the questions. The upper mount is actually 3" from shock center to center of tube. I did the calculations on the force(psi) that will be appllied at that point and the tubing will be fine. It is well under the yield and tensile strength of the tubing even at 3" of rear shock compression. I can't say if it will be 3 times as much as the ex250 since I don't know the spring rate on that particular shock.
Having the shock at an angle to the upper mount(lever) and not at 90 degress does lessen the actual force that is applied at the pivot point also. Notice  how much of an angle the kawasaki mount is at.
I tried to make the upper mount as close to the frame as possible but it is limited by the open area that the shock passes through. This was the shortest that I could get it without the shock spring rubbing the swingarm.
Rundown, thanks for the compliments. This has been a great learning experience for me. I usually quietly read through threads here and on the net, scratch my head, figure it out then do it. I always tell my children that anyone can achieve anything as long as they are patient, willing to listen and go slowly.

I did get the carbs back together, mounted the throttle up, ordered the headlight brackets and got the engine side covers back from the powder coat guy(before he went on a duck hunting hiatus). I figured out the wiring and actually put together a list of OEM wire colors with there service on the DS7/R5. If I get a chance I may post that up..who knows it may help someone else out.
Oh and I ain't going to work tomorrow!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: johnu on Nov 14, 2013, 23:35:06
Very impressive, especially like the way you perservered with the seat.  It was a mess but you just kept at it and I think it is exceptionally nice now, different than anyone else's, so much better than buying one.  The other area that blew me away was your learning about expansion chambers and then just building some beauties.  I'll be watching this one!!

I agree very good work. 
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: bradj on Nov 14, 2013, 23:36:25
I feel your pain clem
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Nov 14, 2013, 23:49:50
I feel your pain clem
Haha. But your welding goes up alot faster than mine.

This is what I came up with for 2" of shock compression:
Torque apllied @ structural member - 2270.27lb/in
Torsional deflection of shaft(frame cross tube) 1.15deg.
Shear Stress @ structural member - 34,702.48psi
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: Big Rich on Nov 14, 2013, 23:57:39
This thing isn't done yet?

Kidding man. Signed up.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: bradj on Nov 15, 2013, 01:01:47
Haha. But your welding goes up alot faster than mine.
sounds like your levels of "give a fuck" are to high
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: VonYinzer on Nov 15, 2013, 10:33:46
sounds like your levels of "give a fuck" are to high

Need to make you a sign to hang over your garage doo that reads "From this point on, not a single fuck shall be given".
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Nov 15, 2013, 10:42:36
True Mike, you have my address. Rich, it was in the 50's here the last few days. Too cold to go in the garage and finish up. :D
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: Caf'd Out on Nov 16, 2013, 01:13:58
50's is too cold?! where do you live? Too cold to work in the garage is when the wrench starts to stick to your hands or turn them purple..
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Nov 16, 2013, 12:26:33
50's is too cold?! where do you live? Too cold to work in the garage is when the wrench starts to stick to your hands or turn them purple..
South Louisiana....I would not survive up North.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: Powderfinger on Nov 16, 2013, 13:17:14
Hehe, you should be able to heat your garage by turning the lights on.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Nov 17, 2013, 19:21:36
Few little things happening this weekend. First, I got the engine covers back so I dedcided to put them on. Found out that the drive gear for the oil pump from a 250 doesn't line up to the primary crank gear on the 350 tranny. Second, the 350 throttle cable that came with the carbs that werer thrown in with the bike has a longer oil pump cable and probably won't work with the 250 oil pump. I'm really considering canning the oil pump idea and block it off. So to alieve the frustrations I tackled the wiring harness. I started with this crusty mess:
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20131115_171236_zps49f8d786.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20131115_171236_zps49f8d786.jpg.html)
got it down to this:
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20131115_173832_zps444d575a.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20131115_173832_zps444d575a.jpg.html)
Then started re-assembling it on the bike:
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20131116_134717_zps2ef40da7.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20131116_134717_zps2ef40da7.jpg.html)
Here is a shot of the tail light.I still need to go back and glass over the top of the light where I cut it to high. I also got a daytona kickstarter that should clear the chambers and rearsets.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20131102_182946_zpsf13e6ad8.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20131102_182946_zpsf13e6ad8.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: VonYinzer on Nov 17, 2013, 19:27:11
Glad to see progress bud. Keep at it. This thing is going to be bitchin'.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: stroker crazy on Nov 17, 2013, 19:44:09
I'm really considering canning the oil pump idea

Good to see the progress!

Try to keep the oil pump Clem - a bit of perseverance now can save you from the annoyance and disadvantages of using pre-mix.

Crazy
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: johnu on Nov 17, 2013, 19:56:11
Looking good Clem.  Doing the wiring would wind me up even more though ;)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Nov 17, 2013, 20:17:46
Thanks brothers. After this damn (saints pulled it off)football game I'm going to order some bullet connectors and sheath to finish it off. I have the tubing on the way for the exhaust manifolds also.
Crazy, I threw away my ratio rite about 6 years ago. I really want this pump to work out. A question would be with the different gearing what would the 250 pump put out now as far as ratio?
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: Floegstad on Nov 18, 2013, 12:57:45
http://www.dansmc.com/2_stroke_oilpump.htm
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Nov 18, 2013, 15:29:10
Thanks man. That was a good little read.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: focusinprogress on Nov 20, 2013, 12:46:23
Just stumbled across the build, coming along nicely. great work on the pipes and love the wheel color choice.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Nov 24, 2013, 22:38:08
I tackled more of the wiring this weekend and pretty much got it done. It went pretty smooth and I wish that I could say that building the rest of the bike was this simple.
I got it layed out and clothed up:
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20131122_172742_zps487950c2.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20131122_172742_zps487950c2.jpg.html)
I installed new bullet connectors on the ninja switch and tail light:
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20131122_203231_zps6c8f9340.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20131122_203231_zps6c8f9340.jpg.html)
Laid it up on the side of the bike:
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20131123_161108_zps6df61bf1.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20131123_161108_zps6df61bf1.jpg.html)
And bam! Head light, tail light horn and blinkers:
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20131123_163600_zps87b752b2.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20131123_163600_zps87b752b2.jpg.html)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20131123_171135_zps8b5cea27.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20131123_171135_zps8b5cea27.jpg.html)
I used the stock ignition switch to run this test but Ive got a replacement on the way that will fit into the stock zx6 triple clamp.
The list of things to do is getting smaller but finding time to do them lately is getting harder. I'm going to just keep on track and not try to rush through just to say that I'm done. Ill be cool if its finished by January.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Nov 25, 2013, 21:17:34
The daytona (RD400F) kick starter arrived today. Solved the problem  of the kicker hitting the chambers. It clears the rear sets better than the stock kicker also. I have a feeling that the kick stand may be a little more involved.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: johnu on Nov 25, 2013, 22:09:03
Hey Clem, your electrical looks sweet!  I seem to have about 10x as many wires on my 500!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Nov 26, 2013, 08:43:27
John, I must confess that the charging system wiring is not installed. It does have its own neat harness though.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Dec 22, 2013, 21:52:36
Damn! I just typed out a long explanation on the progress and somewow it got deleted. I don't feel like typing it again so here are the pics.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20131222_180157_zps9d3e7c9b.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20131222_180157_zps9d3e7c9b.jpg.html)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20131222_182317_zps12ad9c03.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20131222_182317_zps12ad9c03.jpg.html)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20131222_182326_zps0cbf520c.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20131222_182326_zps0cbf520c.jpg.html)
This is what I pulled out of the oil tank when I got the bike
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20131213_133427_zpsdc58b36e.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20131213_133427_zpsdc58b36e.jpg.html)
Cheers
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: bananaclip on Dec 22, 2013, 23:34:42
I'm loving your build brother! Very creative use of parts and your expansions are fantastic! 
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: Powderfinger on Dec 23, 2013, 07:57:35
+1, Everything's looking awesome!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Dec 23, 2013, 22:27:28
Thanks guys. I got a little box of stuff today and I also think that I may have solved the riddle of the offset front sprocket. I found some cross reference info that shows that a hyabusa spline should be the same size as the rd. There are a few offset sprockets out there for the busa crew sporting those fat rear tires. More to come..
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: 50gary on Dec 23, 2013, 22:41:08
I would think the mighty Hay-bus would have a 530 sprockets and chain.  The RD a 520.  Renthal makes an Ultra light Busa sprocket in 530 14T-17T don't know if it's available in offset from Renthal?
 Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: clem on Dec 23, 2013, 22:58:22
I would think the mighty Hay-bus would have a 530 sprockets and chain.  The RD a 520.  Renthal makes an Ultra light Busa sprocket in 530 14T-17T don't know if it's available in offset from Renthal?
 Cheers, 50gary
Gary,
There are a few that cross over both 520 and 530. The list was from pbi sprockets. They listed the part numbers by model so its easy to reference. Now there is a company called myrtle west that is putting out offset sprockets for a decent price. I'm not 100% on it yet but I'll get it figured out soon. I'm just trying to avoid making it myself.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- monoshock conversion done
Post by: 50gary on Dec 23, 2013, 23:04:08
I use the 520 on my bikes, I did see a cross for a Busa in 520 when I did a quick search.  I couldn't see a part number so I didn't post.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Dec 24, 2013, 10:14:47
Here is a link to the PDF of sprockets.
http://www.shop.pbisprockets.com/media/PBI%20Catalog%20Complete(2).pdf
Now I don't have a specific breakdown of their part numbers but I am assuming that the last two digits are the tooth count. With that said, if the first are number is identical they should be the same shaft size/spline count. The RD350 is a 776 for a 530 setup. Looking at other bikes on the list, 456 is the 520 conversion equivalent. The next step would be finding an offset front with a close enough tooth count that you could even it out at the rear. I think that stock gearing is 15/40 for the 350. For this instance I think they offer a 16T for the newer bikes that cross over to the RD but I'd have to look at my new rear wheel size vs. the old one to get the gearing straight in the back.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: SF on Dec 24, 2013, 13:27:44
Cool build man
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: vbtravisd on Dec 25, 2013, 21:32:02
hey man, bike looks killer!  I got a couple of questions & I hope I didn't miss it as I skimmed through the build.  How did you set your ride height?  Or at least the height of your upper shock mount?  How much does the bike squat when you sit on it?
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Dec 26, 2013, 00:08:51
I measured the original setup and went for that. As far as the squat, I assume that you are referring to sag? That is set with the spring tension with rider on the bike so I haven't got that far yet but it can be done at any point.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Jan 05, 2014, 16:41:34
I recieved the offset front sprocket in the mail yesterday. After a little research I discovered that there are a few newer bikes out there that have the same countershaft size and spline count as the RD350(25mm with 13 splines). I ordered a 3/8" offset 16T sprocket that was for a GSXR1300 up to 2007 I believe from PBI and it slipped right on. Im getting down to the nut cutting and only have a few things left to buy. I need a rear sprocket in 530 pitch, chain, a battery and an air filter. I have a longer oil tank line on the way along with the Y-boot, carb vent lines and a few other small items. I really think that I may be better off if I get it running and jet it to the old pipes first and then put the new ones on. The reason for that is the carbs are from a 350 with the stock jetting and going to near stock for the 250 with the O.G. pipes may be a better starting point.

The second challenge will be to get the suspenders to work with this bike since both are sprung and valved for much heavier bikes. I could just get fat and solve the problem but new clothes may cost just as much as new springs. I know that I can try different oil heights in the front and lighter springs shouldn't be too expensive. As far as the back, I haven't looked into what range of springs are available for the gsxr600 shock or what others(possibly from the motocross world) that would fit. We'll get it sorted out.
 
I do need to machine down the drive hub 10mm but that shouldn't be much trouble. This may be looking too far down the road but I'm looking forward to getting the 350 cylinders, possible porting and a new pipe to get more performance out of it.
Below is a link to the PBI sprockets parts list. A good place to reference what sprockets cross over to different bikes.
http://www.shop.pbisprockets.com/media/PBI%20Catalog%20Complete(2).pdf

(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20140104_152830_zps1ec4754e.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/20140104_152830_zps1ec4754e.jpg.html)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20140104_152836_zps6c2b830b.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/20140104_152836_zps6c2b830b.jpg.html)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20140104_153000_zpse96f8671.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/20140104_153000_zpse96f8671.jpg.html)
I need to replace those rusty engine bolts.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20140104_153008_zps577fff18.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/20140104_153008_zps577fff18.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: bradj on Jan 05, 2014, 17:08:22
Looks rad my man a side note : rd400 output shaft is a match to rz/banshee
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: johnu on Jan 05, 2014, 19:33:23
Very nice Clem, wish I could have just bought one for the T500.  Don't know if you remember but I had to make my own!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Jan 05, 2014, 19:51:51
I remember john, that's why I searched this one out! Thanks
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Jan 05, 2014, 21:37:23
John, I also looked at the cost for making my own. While I had an abused sprocket to cut a new one would have been about $28 (to weld on to the old one) plus the time to weld and do the machining. This cost me $49 so it made it an easy choice. I did a quick search and I couldn't verify any other bikes that matched your 500.
I also stroked my oil pump with the drill after reading about your troubles. I hope that I don't have to go through that mess.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: VonYinzer on Jan 05, 2014, 21:39:47
Looking forward to seeing it all come together Clem. Get back to work.  ;)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: johnu on Jan 06, 2014, 10:44:31
$49 is a bargain for that sprocket, thanks for checking on the T500 sprockets too. 

I think I am just unlucky with my pump I am sure you will be fine :)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Jan 06, 2014, 17:05:37
Mike,
 my wallet is doing the work at the moment and unfortunately it is slower than I am. HA!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: clem on Jan 12, 2014, 22:34:05
I went ahead and welded the rear end of the frame back on the bike. I guess now it can no longer be considered a cafe racer but I will continue on folks.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20140112_161904_zpse46a2107.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/20140112_161904_zpse46a2107.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- The Un-Cafe
Post by: Floegstad on Jan 13, 2014, 04:04:00
This bike is looking AWESOME sir!!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- The Un-Cafe
Post by: clem on Jan 13, 2014, 08:26:01
Thanks Mr. Floeg.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- The Un-Cafe
Post by: clem on Jan 16, 2014, 21:34:19
I've got the oil pump installed. The list gets shorter.
Buy the rear sprocket and chain
Mill the rear drive hub
Remove the original coil brackets and weld up new one for the mzb coil
Get the shifter welded to place the linkage arm on the top of it.
I should be able to fire it up after this then move on to making a new seat, oil tank bracket and battery mount.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20140116_190057_zps55c895b6.jpg)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- The Un-Cafe
Post by: clem on Jan 17, 2014, 19:50:18
I got the coil bracket removed and made a new one. I got the new coil mounted.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20140117_160953_zps6a8a4e34.jpg)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road
Post by: xb33bsa on Jan 17, 2014, 20:00:59
I went ahead and welded the rear end of the frame back on the bike. I guess now it can no longer be considered a cafe racer but I will continue on folks.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20140112_161904_zpse46a2107.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/20140112_161904_zpse46a2107.jpg.html)
what is going on with the exhaust are you building this as a dragbike?
it just looks crazy low for cornering clearance
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- The Un-Cafe
Post by: clem on Jan 17, 2014, 21:47:24
My friends dad had a pretty sweet KZ1000 that he set up for drag racing, by the time he got it running  he sold it.
XB they do look pretty darn low. I caught a glimpse of that yesterday while I was working on it in so I did a fake lean on the bike and it went pretty far without hitting the ground. I can't drag my knees on the street anyway, in fact I catch myself sticking my inside leg out to the front in deep turns like I'm still out on a motocross track.

On a serious note, I had to work the pipes around the rear suspension linkage. That was something that I hadn't thought about when considering to even do a monoshock setup. Maybe someone else can learn from that. Oh and I was looking down at the bike slightly when I took the pic so it looks worse than it actually is.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- The Un-Cafe
Post by: 50gary on Jan 17, 2014, 23:15:47
I'm looking at that same dilemma, a low pipe on my project.  The pipe (250 FMF Fatty,) it's so fat and I have a linked mono-shock.  We'll see how creative this will turn out to be?  Your bike look's cool, hang in there.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- The Un-Cafe
Post by: clem on Jan 18, 2014, 10:13:13
Gary does FMF make street pipes or are you using a fatty to create your own? I may try to take a pic with the bike leaned over today.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- The Un-Cafe
Post by: 50gary on Jan 18, 2014, 10:41:08
The pipe is an every day FMF Fatty Gold Series for a YZ250 moto-X pipe that I'm "re-directing"  Noble experiment, if it doesn't work Then I'll make one from scratch.  I've also had a thought that the power delivery for cafe/track bike may be quite different from the moto-X?
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- The Un-Cafe
Post by: clem on Jan 18, 2014, 11:12:48
The fatty was a bottom end pipe and worked well on 125's and the RM250 when they had no bottom from the factory. The late model YZ's were a strong motor all around of the showroom floor. Looking forward to see what you come up with.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- The Un-Cafe
Post by: clem on Jan 18, 2014, 19:18:16
Lean angle. Pipes not hitting ground yet.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20140118_170020_zps00f60335.jpg)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- The Un-Cafe
Post by: bananaclip on Jan 18, 2014, 21:28:08
I think your lean clearance should be good.   8) the scoot is crazy cool so far bub!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- The Un-Cafe
Post by: captain awesome on Jan 18, 2014, 21:52:38
Try not to forget that the suspension isn't loaded with a rider or under stresses normally given in riding conditions. It may look good now, but check it with the suspension fully compressed to see your true lean angle. Bike looks great though, keep up the good work.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- The Un-Cafe
Post by: clem on Jan 18, 2014, 22:46:38
Remember that I can't drag knees. If it goes any further than that it's because I'm about to hit the ground. Lol!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- The Un-Cafe
Post by: teazer on Jan 19, 2014, 00:21:11
Captain awesome is right, when cornering the bike is much lower on the suspension and if you don't hang off, the bike has to be leaned further to corner at the same speed, so more stuff drags.

You'll know about ti though as the pipe levers the wheel off the ground mid corner !!!!!!!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- The Un-Cafe
Post by: clem on Jan 19, 2014, 10:58:18
That's the kind of stuff that I don't know about teaser. Won't the engine torque through the chain also compress the rear end also like on a motocross bike? Do you set race sag on a road bike like you do on a motocross bike?What would the greatest lean angle for a beginner rider be able to achieve on average?
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- The Un-Cafe
Post by: xb33bsa on Jan 19, 2014, 11:18:31
That's the kind of stuff that I don't know about teaser. Won't the engine torque through the chain also compress the rear end also like on a motocross bike? Do you set race sag on a road bike like you do on a motocross bike?What would the greatest lean angle for a beginner rider be able to achieve on average?

that mid cormer bump you didn't see is what will catch you out if you have limited cornering clearance
usually the pegs will touch first and being folding it is not a big issue,you feel it and get a warning they always give you a bit more lean before you hit hard stuff and crash
i would say you are going to need at minimum 45 degrees lean angle with nearly bottomed out suspension to be safe
 because there are always dips and humps in roads as well
 
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- The Un-Cafe
Post by: clem on Jan 25, 2014, 18:11:59
Alright all bumps aside, I got the oil tank mounted to the rewelded end of the frame. I put oil in the tank and was able to prime it to the banjo bolts on the cylinder. The plan is to start it up next weekend. I should be able to get the drive hub done tomorrow. I also have the metal for the new seat on the way so that can get done also.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20140125_130408_zps5b1d449a.jpg)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20140125_130402_zps0382a35c.jpg)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- The Un-Cafe
Post by: teazer on Jan 25, 2014, 19:04:04
I went ahead and welded the rear end of the frame back on the bike. I guess now it can no longer be considered a cafe racer but I will continue on folks.

Eh?  Since when did cutting the tail off make anything a Cafe racer?  Did I miss that Tweet?

That's also why I prefer the term "custom" rather than trying to match someone's definition.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- The Un-Cafe
Post by: clem on Jan 25, 2014, 21:12:17
Teaser I suppose that my cajun humor is not be translated?
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- The Un-Cafe
Post by: 50gary on Jan 25, 2014, 21:40:32
Facile humor; Instead of the Un-cafe it could now simply be Decaf.
 I like The "Un-cafe" just yesterday I told a friend how it sucks to be "un-rich"
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- The Un-Cafe
Post by: clem on Jan 25, 2014, 21:48:05
Ah Gary why couldn't I come up with the decafe!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- The Un-Cafe
Post by: bradj on Jan 25, 2014, 22:02:39
Call it a fucking row boat if you want, who cares? Wake me when your doing hole shots
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: bradj on Jan 25, 2014, 23:22:56
Hahaha
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: teazer on Jan 26, 2014, 02:00:09
Teaser I suppose that my cajun humor is not be translated?

Couldn't be sure if you were serious or being funny.  My comment was supposed to be mildy amusing/annoying.  Guess that didn't work either.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: VonYinzer on Jan 26, 2014, 13:31:49
So a Cajun and a Scotsman walk into a bar together... Nobody has any clue what they're saying.  ;)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: teazer on Jan 26, 2014, 14:31:56
Wha' chew talkin about Lewis?
Title: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: SONIC. on Jan 26, 2014, 14:47:35
Whatcha talkin bout Willis?
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Jan 26, 2014, 14:54:41
Come on guys I speak perfect English with no accent. Just ask Big Rich, I sound like I'm from PA.
Title: Re: Re: 1972 DS7 The Long Road- The Un-Cafe
Post by: HollywoodMX on Jan 26, 2014, 15:33:33
Alright all bumps aside, I got the oil tank mounted to the rewelded end of the frame. I put oil in the tank and was able to prime it to the banjo bolts on the cylinder. The plan is to start it up next weekend. I should be able to get the drive hub done tomorrow. I also have the metal for the new seat on the way so that can get done also.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20140125_130408_zps5b1d449a.jpg)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20140125_130402_zps0382a35c.jpg)

How tall will your tail piece need to be to cover that tank? Seems high. You could mount it with the bracket on the bottom instead of the top. Might drop it a quarter to half an inch looks like.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Jan 26, 2014, 17:06:22
No higher than the original seat that I built. It just needed to be longer to fit the taillight  and the oil tank.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Jan 26, 2014, 19:41:22
I didn't get a chance to go to the machinist today so I made these brackets for the speedometer and tachometer.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20140126_151927_zpscbf53b04.jpg)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20140126_170521_zps050e4fa8.jpg)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: runmikeyrun on Jan 26, 2014, 22:07:06
holy fuck this thing looks bad ass!!!!!!!   Great job!  Make sure ya get some youtube vid up of it running when you start it up... I love to hear them pop.  I restored an RD250 as a young man of 18/19 and have re-done most of my RD400 over the last several years.  These bikes are tons of fun!!!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: bradj on Jan 27, 2014, 00:49:12
Thpse guages are gonna be a unreadable blur mounted like that
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Jan 27, 2014, 09:30:40
Ya think so? Im using the stock rubber dampers as well. I don't remember how that bracket was attached to the bike originally but I assumed that it was attached to the triple clamp.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: bradj on Jan 27, 2014, 11:27:52
I think you need to shorten the whole thing
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: SONIC. on Jan 27, 2014, 11:30:26
I'd ditch the stock bracket altogether and make new ones (individually) to bring the gauges in left and right as close to the triples as possible
Tighter is cleaner  ;D
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: xb33bsa on Jan 27, 2014, 11:50:52
get the bracket hung out too far and the image will be as blurry as a jap porno crotch shot  :D
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Jan 27, 2014, 13:54:09
I'll probably pull it back in and put the raised part in the ignition slot to eliminate any boing that it may have.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Feb 02, 2014, 19:39:54
I got the bike running today. I had a couple of hiccups though. With the 520 chain on the clutch actuator hits the chain. It did fit without the chain so I figure that with a 520 sprocket and chain it should fit. The petcock was also leaking. It is an aftermarket one so I'll lay out the cash for the real deal, I shouldn't have taken a shortcut on that one.
I have a video but no youtube account to post it up here. Is there any other way to embed a video on this site?
It did feel pretty good to fire it up after a little more than a year with a bike that I never heard run and the engine was trashed. It fired up first kick but took a bit of fiddling to get it to run steady with the RD350 carbs on the bike.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Feb 03, 2014, 12:30:57
Was able to use the google account for the video.

http://youtu.be/EnT4Jk1I4Jo
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: johnu on Feb 03, 2014, 17:48:33
I got the bike running today. I had a couple of hiccups though. With the 520 chain on the clutch actuator hits the chain. It did fit without the chain so I figure that with a 520 sprocket and chain it should fit. The petcock was also leaking. It is an aftermarket one so I'll lay out the cash for the real deal, I shouldn't have taken a shortcut on that one.
I have a video but no youtube account to post it up here. Is there any other way to embed a video on this site?
It did feel pretty good to fire it up after a little more than a year with a bike that I never heard run and the engine was trashed. It fired up first kick but took a bit of fiddling to get it to run steady with the RD350 carbs on the bike.

Great you got the bike running!  I had also bought aftermarket petcock for the 500 and it to leaked!!  I just took it apart and relocated and O ring that was out of position and it has not leaked since, maybe you could try taking yours apart before shelling out for a new one.

Hope you have an easier time with the jetting than I am ;D
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Feb 03, 2014, 18:25:15
I'll try that out John. I had gas everywhere man! I'll admit that initially I forgot to tighten it down way back when I first bought it to use for the tank relocation and never even though of going back over the petcock. I could see where that may have caused an o-ring to get misaligned.  I had gas dripping down my arms trying to tighten it up and didn't think that the wife would let me back in the house smelling like that . Live and learn. Maybe the jetting will go well.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Feb 04, 2014, 22:11:54
I took a few measurements tonight and it looks like a 520 non o ring chain should work. I'll have to get the sprocket on the front turned down to 1/4" to fit the 520 chain size. Anybody need a 110 link 530 chain? Haha.
I did get started on the metal seat though. I'm going to make a transition from the seat to the back of the tank where it is open to cover that up and should give me room to put the battery under there. I've got some trimming and fitting left to go but its a good start.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20140204_194507_zpsd0c5d011.jpg)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: SF on Feb 04, 2014, 23:36:03
What's all over your tire dude?
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Feb 05, 2014, 06:54:47
The shed is still open through the ceiling via the porch. It was very humid yesterday and inside the shed was that damp. I may be installing plywood this weekend.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: bradj on Feb 05, 2014, 18:16:04
Rad
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Redbird on Feb 05, 2014, 18:55:25
Come on guys I speak perfect English with no accent.
"Everytime you open your mouth I keep waiting for Crawfish to start jumping out of your pockets" :P
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Feb 05, 2014, 22:22:28
"Everytime you open your mouth I keep waiting for Crawfish to start jumping out of your pockets" :P
Chris you have a hell of a memory.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Feb 05, 2014, 22:26:40
Was able to use the google account for the video.

http://youtu.be/EnT4Jk1I4Jo
I think that I may have had the video set on private.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: bradj on Feb 06, 2014, 20:10:13
I love it
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Feb 06, 2014, 20:23:11
Thanks Brad, you helped out a bunch on it and I appreciate it. It wasnt hard to start at all. I figured that I would have a hard time with it having the wrong carbs on it. I set the air screws to 1.5 out and set the slide adjustment and it idled pretty good. Once I get the front sprocket straight I may give it a spin around the block to check out the mid range.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: johnu on Feb 06, 2014, 20:27:47
Holy cow Clem that's awesome, got to get some bloody silencers on there though that is loud!!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Feb 06, 2014, 20:38:06
Holy cow Clem that's awesome, got to get some bloody silencers on there though that is loud!!
Yeah my 7 year old was scared to come outside.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: JustinLonghorn on Feb 06, 2014, 21:07:27
That is a glorious sound. Fucking glorious. 
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: VonYinzer on Feb 06, 2014, 21:11:52
Fuck. Yes.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Feb 06, 2014, 21:32:41
Oh and that sweet smell. Its what dreams are made of folks.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: S Majure on Feb 06, 2014, 21:43:44
Chris you have a hell of a memory.
I tell this story weekly myself!!!!
Hell, I live under the building you said it happened in!!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: S Majure on Feb 06, 2014, 21:47:05
OK, now put that in a truck come over here and we can rip up NOLA on Strokers!!!! GOD, what a headache that will be, but it will smell good.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Feb 06, 2014, 22:20:33
Seat blinkers and paint Scott and I'll be on my way. Some boiled crawfish would be pretty good about now though. If your ever off during the week maybe we can hit the rivershack for lunch.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Rich Ard on Feb 07, 2014, 00:37:49
Fucking rad Clem!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Feb 11, 2014, 21:17:39
Found out why I had a fuel leak. It was seeping through the bolt holes so I drilled out a recess for an o-ring. I dont have the original hardware that came with the tank(no petcock when I bought it) but it appears to have some type of washers on the parts fiche. It should work now though.
before:
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20140209_175938_zpsfcadafda.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/20140209_175938_zpsfcadafda.jpg.html)
After:
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20140209_180648_zps7354a540.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/20140209_180648_zps7354a540.jpg.html)
Thank You RichArd
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: bradj on Feb 11, 2014, 22:50:51
That should work the washers are some kind of fiber crap i would think a roll of gasket paper would make 100s of them but im a hack so....can i be really trusted?
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: johnu on Feb 12, 2014, 00:12:50
That is a piss poor design on that petcock Clem.  I like your solution :)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: dualero on Feb 12, 2014, 00:17:31
Yes sir indeed, very clever and clean solution

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Swagger on Feb 12, 2014, 01:46:50
HAHAHA I damn near tipped my Guinness when that fired. That's fantastic Clem, really. I love the wheels on it, they look oddly......familiar. Great work amigo!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Feb 12, 2014, 09:00:04
John I would say that you are correct. If there are gasket/washers under the bolt head fuel would still seep down in the bolt holes of the petcock and sit there. I would think that not having the threaded inserts of the tank open to the inside of the tank would have been a better design.
Swagger thanks. The coolest part about this is that there are some good people here that are willing to contribute to get someone that may have never met a little closer to realizing their motorcycle. I still have a long way to go with this one to put it on the street and after that I want to do some motor work(350 cylinders and heads), possible porting, add a fairing and actually go through the suspension and make it work for a bike of this weight, flex and also rider weight.
I still need to agree with myself on a seat and front and rear fenders. That will probably be the hardest part of this project.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Redbird on Feb 12, 2014, 16:51:41
Found out why I had a fuel leak. It was seeping through the bolt holes so I drilled out a recess for an o-ring.
That is freakin Genius!
I use a combo metal/rubber washer, that's mostly effective, but will still weep fuel ever so slightly.
Thanks Reeshard, by way of Clem ;)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Feb 12, 2014, 18:54:37
That is freakin Genius!
I use a combo metal/rubber washer, that's mostly effective, but will still weep fuel ever so slightly.
Thanks Reeshard, by way of Clem ;)
Ha, I was thanking RichArd for the "Fucking Rad"
Title: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Rich Ard on Feb 12, 2014, 18:59:30
Well, you're all welcome.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Redbird on Feb 12, 2014, 19:10:21
Ha!
Well Thanks to Everyone :P
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Feb 12, 2014, 21:52:56
I would like to be able to thank him for a new comic.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Rich Ard on Feb 12, 2014, 23:01:13
I've created a monster
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: VonYinzer on Feb 13, 2014, 10:49:28
I've created a monster

Get over yourself.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Rich Ard on Feb 13, 2014, 11:59:55
I bet that when they were storming Frankenstein's lab there was a guy in a leather jacket leaning against the gate that said that.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: SONIC. on Feb 13, 2014, 12:01:14
I bet that when they were storming Frankenstein's lab there was a guy in a leather jacket leaning against the gate that said that.

It was the Fonz
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Rich Ard on Feb 13, 2014, 12:02:40
(http://b-i.forbesimg.com/phildemuth/files/2013/09/abnormal.png)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Feb 13, 2014, 12:33:45
correctomundo
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: SONIC. on Feb 13, 2014, 12:35:46
I CAN'T SEE THE PICTURE
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Aug 06, 2014, 22:46:41
So I'm dragging this back up from the days when I was actually working on this motorcycle. I got busy working at work, working around the house and basically just working in general on other things besides this. Part of it was just the frustration of things not coming together smoothly and I got my ass full.
So after I got it fired up, it sat up for awhile while I got the petcock leaking under control(I think I did since it has no gas in the tank). The oil injection lines started to leak so I replaced those along with the clips that hold them on the nipples. I had to have the front sprocket turned down to a 520 so that the clutch actuator would not rub anymore so I hit up my friend Don to get it taken care of. That step took awhile as I didn't want to just drop it off to him and run, I waited until I actually had time to visit with him for awhile and catch up on the Kawasaki 750 triple engine that he was putting in his 500. So I get back home and put the sprocket on and bam! It still hits the chain. I had to take the clutch actuator off and remove the dust cover so that I could slide the actuating arm a little further down the geared shaft. Finally I have an operational clutch!
Now I am finding that I can't shift this thing into gear on the stand, maybe it'll slip in when it's running? Are these bikes that stubborn?
I did manage to make a battery box and mount up the gauges in  a little tighter. The laundry list is: add a front fender, finish the seat/cowl, get the correct length bolts for the linkage, build some new chambers and add a rear mud guard.
 As far as the seat/cowl is concerned, I am leaning towards cutting it down to just a cowl containing the oil tank and doing a fiberglass seat pan. I can't seem to get the metal pan to fit as tight to the frame as I would like and I think that glass would allow me to match the contour on the rear of the tank a little better.
And here are a couple of pictures for proof:
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20140221_164003_zpsengowztm.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/20140221_164003_zpsengowztm.jpg.html)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20140804_191127_zps4kfzncur.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/20140804_191127_zps4kfzncur.jpg.html)
I had to go with a slightly older version of the R6 shifter to get that to work also
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20140804_191138_zpsfaxl5boy.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20140804_191138_zpsfaxl5boy.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Big Rich on Aug 07, 2014, 11:10:09
I was wondering what was happening with the old row boat..... looks good Clem.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: johnu on Aug 07, 2014, 14:04:07
Clem, you are not alone!  I have deserted the Suzuki for the last several months as I got fed up taking the carbs off and reinstalling them with different jets and getting no where >:(  I am sure you will get the seat right soon :D
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: TranceMachineVienna on Aug 07, 2014, 18:05:17
Great stuff man!!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: bradj on Aug 07, 2014, 18:07:45
If ypu need anything text me ill help in anyway i can o and plus one on not working on my bikes
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: 50gary on Aug 07, 2014, 22:34:25
Good on you Clem, keep nibbling away.  I too must confess to letting life get in the way.  I had a pretty serious work related accident (not my fault)with too much blood on the outside of my body.  I'm fine but the bills just keep coming.  Anyway stick with the bike it's cool and worth finishing.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Aug 07, 2014, 22:59:39
Thanks for the words dudes. Just to note, I was able to shift through the gears before I buttoned up the engine completely with the clutch basket and oil pump so hopefully this weekend I'll get it cranked up and try to get around the neighborhood with it. I'm going to fill my argon bottle tomorrow and get after that seat too.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Aug 09, 2014, 12:04:23
So far it looks like it is going downhill. The bike won't shift into gear with the R6 shifter. I put the original long shifter on it and it still wouldn't shift. It did engage a gear but only when I would keep my foot on the shifter. Looks like the stator side crank seal is leaking along with the clutch pushrod seal. That freakin sucks! Seems like if you can't buy OEM your stuck with wading through the crap that's reproduced. Looks like an engine rebuild is in the near future. I do have a set of RD350 cylinders on hand so I may as well get those bored out and put on the bike while I'm at it. Did I mention that the base gaskets are leaking too?
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: plagrone on Aug 09, 2014, 13:50:02
Keep at it man, one day she'll run beautifully.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: plagrone on Aug 09, 2014, 13:50:56
And then the next day something else will break
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: 50gary on Aug 09, 2014, 14:49:55
Clem, I was noticing the shift linkage and for me I always set the trans lever (short one) 90 degrees to the push rod (long one) that way you always get the most direct action, up or down shifting.  For your setup it looks like you should shorten the push rod, maybe .75"  .375" on each end (just guessing the inches from angled pic)
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: teazer on Aug 09, 2014, 16:26:54
+1 .  Try to get the two "vertical" arms parallel. 
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: jpmobius on Aug 09, 2014, 17:37:18
+1 50gary.  There are two main things to consider.  First, original lever length.  Obviously if you just moved the pegs back a few inches, and also shortened the lever to match, the "leverage" would be so greatly reduced you probably couldn't shift the trans.  This of course applies equally to your set up with a linkage.  If the lever you borrow from a different bike or fab from scratch is shorter than stock, you have to make up for it by a shorter pedal belcrank lever and a longer shift shaft lever.  So in concept, if your lever is half as long, delivering half the leverage, you make up for it by making the ratio of the belcrank and shift shaft levers 1:2.  This is actually more complex because the result also is a function of radius vs degrees of rotation, but suffice it to say don't make any of the levers too short, which has a secondary benefit.  Because there is always lost motion at any pivot, the longer the lever arms are, the smaller percentage of pedal slop manifested by that lost motion.  Imagine a super short belcrank with a 1/16" of lost motion in the rod end or clevis.  that would result in a lot of rotation before taking up the slack compared to an extra long belcrank.  the second thing is the angle between the various levers and rods.  Think of each lever as a crank.  When the angle between the crank arm and the rod it is pushing is 90 degrees, you get the most distance traveled for each degree of rotation.  It is also the point of least mechanical advantage, so it offers the least power applied.  This works backwards when it is the rod pushing the crank, which is now the shift shaft lever, so it balances out for the most part.  The trouble arrises when you have a situation when there is a different angle at the ends of the rod.  Lets say you have 90 degrees at the belcrank, but the rod is too short to have 90 degrees at the shift shaft.  When you lift up with your toe, you are at the weakest point of rotation, but at the shift shaft, the farther you pull the harder it gets because the farther around the shift shaft lever rotates, the worse the mechanical advantage gets.  So up shifting will be really bad.  Downshifting on the other hand, will be extra good, because as the belcrank rotates forward pushing the rod, it also rotates the shift shaft forward bringing the angle between the shift shaft and rod closer to 90 degrees improving the mechanical advantage.

I have scratch built a LOT of rear sets.  To simplify, I suggest tho following. 

1) figure out where you want your pegs to be and put them there.
2) now you can sit on the bike and figure out where the pedals need to go. that is the pedal at your toe, not the pivot.
3) If you can make the pedal the same length as stock, it will make things easier, but if you can't, you will have to compensate by belcrank to shift shaft lever ratio.  This is the case for your DS, as you have chosen a pedal that is shorter than stock.  Your belcrank will need to be shorter than your shift shaft lever the right amount to compensate.
4) pick the pivot location.  This is a bit tricky.  On the one hand, you rotate your foot like the peg was the center of rotation, but on the other, your foot actually rotates around your ankle, so above and behind the peg is optimal.  Fortunately this seems to be much less critical than it would seem.  Your stock pivot is the shift shaft, behind and below the stock peg and works fine.
5) Create a connecting rod.  Make it the same as the distance between the shift shaft and the pedal pivot.  Make it adjustable in both directions, but this will be very close to the best length.  The adjustment is NOT to adjust the pedal height, though might serve to tweak it without disturbing the shift quality too much.  Don't plan on it though.
6) Now you can determine the angle the belcrank arm needs to be in relation to the pedal lever.   I'm sorry to say this is a problem for you because it is not adjustable.  Solutions are to cut and re-weld it in the right place, or do likewise to the pedal, or bend it.  This is the hazard with using parts intended for a not similar bike.  Regardless, the shift shaft lever and the belcrank arm should be parallel to one another, and the angle between each of them and the connecting rod should be as close to 90 degrees as possible.  This can not be the case if the two arms are parallel, but split the difference to have them both off the same.

The result will be a good functioning mechanism assuming the pivot axles are parallel, the mechanics are good etc.  From there, you can fine tune by adjusting the rod length and spline location for the shift shaft lever, but you should be pretty close to optimal.

Here is a pic of a set up that works very well.  Sorry you can't see it at a good angle, but the pedal is short, the belcrank arm is at 90 degrees, the shift shaft arm is longer than the belcrank, and the spline on the shift shaft is one forward of parallel with the rod adjusted longer to reach it.  this gives the most power for upshifts, where your foot is weakest, and missed shifts are most common as a result. 

Keep up the great work, and don't get discouraged working on the controls.  They are deceivingly simple looking, but take a bit of pondering to get to work really well.

Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: xb33bsa on Aug 09, 2014, 19:43:08
wow that is a great 'splanation I have tried to convey the same message but never so well as you have
just to ad something for the brake side the 90 degree of moment should be in the range of when shoes are applied

oh and clem you still need to do  vertical support on that upper shock bolt what you have now is very lkely to fail,too much leverage cantilevered out just hanging there
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Aug 09, 2014, 20:40:04
I knew that the arms needed to parallel so that's why I put the original shift lever back on the bike to try and get it to go through the gears. This still did not work. I will probably wind up cutting the linkage arm shorter and re threading it to get the correct length. I took the clutch off to check on the shift drum and it looked like the shift pawls were getting hung up on the shift drum pins. There is a v-shaped piece that sits on one side of the drum to allow these pawls to rise up over the pin, it looked distorted so I swapped it out with one off of a RD400 engine I have apart. It seemed to work on the stand but I took it back out and would only get into second gear on the street. I am going to split the cases again to make certain that I put the transmission back in the proper order.
xb, I'm not trying to be an idiot about this bike but why do you think that the upper mount will not last very long? I used the calculation sheets from our structural engineering department for torsional stress and it appeared to be up to par with the stress placed on that particular member. In all reality adding another support would just transfer the same stress to another member of the frame that may not be able to handle what is being imposed. Upfront I did realize that no matter what I do to this bike that no part of it was ever intended to support a monoshock of any sort.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Aug 09, 2014, 21:08:48
JP thanks for the reply. I'm going to print it out and study it.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: xb33bsa on Aug 09, 2014, 22:48:59
I knew that the arms needed to parallel so that's why I put the original shift lever back on the bike to try and get it to go through the gears. This still did not work. I will probably wind up cutting the linkage arm shorter and re threading it to get the correct length. I took the clutch off to check on the shift drum and it looked like the shift pawls were getting hung up on the shift drum pins. There is a v-shaped piece that sits on one side of the drum to allow these pawls to rise up over the pin, it looked distorted so I swapped it out with one off of a RD400 engine I have apart. It seemed to work on the stand but I took it back out and would only get into second gear on the street. I am going to split the cases again to make certain that I put the transmission back in the proper order.
xb, I'm not trying to be an idiot about this bike but why do you think that the upper mount will not last very long? I used the calculation sheets from our structural engineering department for torsional stress and it appeared to be up to par with the stress placed on that particular member. In all reality adding another support would just transfer the same stress to another member of the frame that may not be able to handle what is being imposed. Upfront I did realize that no matter what I do to this bike that no part of it was ever intended to support a monoshock of any sort.
because of the way it hangs out in thin air it will be constantly flexing,at the weld joint,which leads to breakage
i don't understand how you cannot see that
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: jpmobius on Aug 09, 2014, 23:06:16
Happy to help.  I was worried that my long windedness would get me the boot!  Actually, I also have concerns about your shock mount.  Aside from reinforcing it, I am hoping you will perform super vigilant inspections once you are riding regularly.  Back in a former existence, I made my living "rescuing" failed structural projects and getting them back on a solid science backed track.  Some of that was some fairly serious race car stuff, where things break like you can not imagine.  I see where the basic setup you are using is much like the original application, but the mount is longer, offering very substantially increased leverage on the DS tube, which was not intended to ever be loaded with such a tremendous torsional component like the bike the swingarm comes from.  My "eagle eye" engineering assessment is that the very high loads and cyclic torque on that cross tube could cause it to fatigue and fail.  It is possible it could go something like this:  After some period of time (after you have stopped worrying about it) the constant tiny flexing causes an area to work harden and develop a crack.  It is a hairline crack and not visible to the naked eye.  The super attentive owner might notice an odd rusty dust there.  Not long after, the crack continuously grows, faster, then a lot faster.  As it gets weaker, the process accelerates and soon the structure is totally overwhelmed.  That sort of failure usually goes from totally ok, to "I detect something" to catastrophic failure REALLY rapidly, as in moments after the "I notice something" epiphany.  I envision the possibility that if it does fail in the typical fashion, you may be going faster than parking lot speed, in which case that sort of failure will likely be severely unpleasant, being such a super critical element.   I mean, what will be the result if the mount does in fact give up fairly suddenly?  Don't get me wrong, If you have competent people saying it is ok, who am I to say otherwise.  I have not seen it in real life, and have not actually analyzed it knowing the alloy and section of the original tube and dimensions of all the elements.  My assessment is strictly an observation based on experience.  I usually don't worry too much about people making things, but when it looks like possible failure might bring about serious consequences, I would rather cry wolf that not try to prevent an accident.  I suppose the good news is that that old DS chassis is made of some really mild "not prone to fatigue cracking steel" and like
xb says, the weld will be the source of the stress riser, so if the worst happens, you hopefully will have enough notice to take action.  Anyway, if you decide you have confidence in it, please keep a sharp eye on it!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: teazer on Aug 11, 2014, 01:10:32
+1.  The issue is really that the mount is cantilevered and very long.  It will generate a huge rotational (torque) that the tube ws not designed to withstand. 

There are some fairly easy ways to change that.  If you look at an RZ frame which is similar in general shape, you can see that they basically tied the rear (shock mount) frame tubes forward to the cross tube. To replicate that in design at least, you would need a cross tube (curved) across the rear tubes and a similar mount to the current one, tied back to the new cross tube.

OR
Tie that existing mount vertically into the rear of the tank area

OR
There are other ways, but you get the general idea.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Aug 11, 2014, 13:49:11
Teazer I definitely will look up the RZ frame to find some pics and check out that design. I do know that the upper mount will generate a rotational torque on the tube, That's why I did the calculations starting from the rear axle to the linkage, through the spring then onto the lever to find out how much torque would be applied onto the tube. I ran the calcs from 1" of spring compression up to 3" and found that all were within bounds. One variable that I will admit that I do not know is the actual condition of the inside of tubing. I did consider changing that out with a new tube and I may still do that before the bike is completed.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Aug 11, 2014, 14:00:37
I found the RZ frame. Looks like it would also add a spot to attach a rear fender.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: teazer on Aug 11, 2014, 21:34:41
The RZ isn't perfect and other may chime in on that, but it's good enough and should be adaptable for your application.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Aug 15, 2014, 19:14:22
Looks like I found the shifting problem. For some odd reason I found the need to disassemble the shift drum. Number 7 was in the wrong place. I caught it when I was double checking the function on a RD400 engine that I have torn down.
I still need to replace the new stator side crank seal. I am assuming that this can be done without splitting the cases back apart. The bad part about it is that I have to go through the motions of setting the timing. It wasn't a bad process but I am at the point to where when I'm done with something, I want to be done!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: TranceMachineVienna on Aug 15, 2014, 19:46:11
the stator crank seal has a ridge...so the cases need to get split...
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Aug 15, 2014, 23:28:14
Not on the DS7 Ryan. It has no ridge.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: TranceMachineVienna on Aug 16, 2014, 00:37:44
Not on the DS7 Ryan. It has no ridge.

oops sorry on my RD 250 theres a ridge on the stator and the clutch side...sorry :-)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Aug 23, 2014, 15:09:02
I managed to get something done on my seat despite the heat. One of my friends was nice enough to give me a small plasma cutter so I started cutting stuff. I mounted in the tail light. For the record this is a tail light from a 2008 EX250 and I still need to trim the bottom part:
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20140823_121842_zpsr6jczsgl.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/20140823_121842_zpsr6jczsgl.jpg.html)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20140823_121832_zpsodcvjljl.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/20140823_121832_zpsodcvjljl.jpg.html)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20140823_122753_zpssh0zsxoq.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/20140823_122753_zpssh0zsxoq.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Big Rich on Aug 23, 2014, 18:27:09
Looking good boss. Is the light going to be angled too far down because of the seat? I'm sure you thought of that, but I just wanted to ask.

How hot could it possibly be in Louisiana in August? Haha.....
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Aug 23, 2014, 19:27:44
Rich, the light is sitting where I think that it is supossed to sit. Meaning that it is angled but I think that its made that way. Kinda hard to explain in this kind of heat. Maybe at barbers this year:)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: xb33bsa on Aug 24, 2014, 00:50:10
awesom  :)
looks like the tire will eat the tail better check full bump clearance,take the spring off the shock is the easiest way to get her squatted
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Aug 24, 2014, 20:52:42
Looks can be deceiving with no tape measure.;)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: VonYinzer on Aug 24, 2014, 21:30:20
Rad stuff Clem. Keep at it. You have my number if ya need anything to get it finished up.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: xb33bsa on Aug 24, 2014, 23:15:08
Looks can be deceiving with no tape measure.;)
indeed
  when you first built it and had the spring off what was the full travel at axle,curios i am
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Aug 25, 2014, 12:34:16
4-3/4" from axle to seat bolt, just like we used to measure race sag.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Sep 13, 2014, 19:11:50
I did something worth posting on the bike. I shortened the shift linkage a bit but I haven't been able to ride with it yet. I can get through the first couple of gears on the stand which is a good sign. I will have to put the stock pipes on it to try it out on the road though since the shifter is lower now and hits the cone. I bought some 18 ga. sheet metal to build another set of pipes and I'm going to make up the head pipe a little different in order to pull the belly and baffle cone more forward to clear the shifter. The first set was 20 ga. and it was a pain to weld and it's so light that it ping and dings a lot. The thicker pipe should be quieter.
I made a fork brace/bracket and mounted a ZX-6R fender on the front. I was hoping to start cutting the seat back for the fiberglass seat pan but I got busy installing insulation in the shed. I'm preparing for our brutal winters down here.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20140912_152917_zpsptfkx0ok.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/20140912_152917_zpsptfkx0ok.jpg.html)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20140912_161300_zpsa1ijjujm.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/20140912_161300_zpsa1ijjujm.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Big Rich on Sep 13, 2014, 20:26:15
Yessir, coming right along. Keep at it man.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: 50gary on Sep 13, 2014, 21:20:37
Front end is very nice, I approve.
  Cheers, 50gary
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Sep 27, 2014, 12:06:59
I made some progress on the seat here. I cut the front off of it and started on a fiberglass seat pan:
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20140915_191434_zps6to5nsei.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/20140915_191434_zps6to5nsei.jpg.html)
I started by placing some foam on the frame rails and taped it down to get a decent form then
I laid a little fiberglass to get it started:
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20140921_173139_zpsttcn2trs.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20140921_173139_zpsttcn2trs.jpg.html)
Trimmed it up to get ready for the other layers of fiberglass:
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20140926_165908_zpsmnflclg5.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/20140926_165908_zpsmnflclg5.jpg.html)
So the list is getting shorter. It won't be ready for barber so I may be bikeless there, I am not planning on bringing my CB160 this year.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: JustinLonghorn on Sep 27, 2014, 13:53:23
Moving right along!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Sep 27, 2014, 20:16:53
Yes sir it is. Few small things left and I'll tear it down for some clean up and painting.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: bradj on Sep 27, 2014, 20:22:58
Nice
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Redbird on Sep 28, 2014, 19:09:21
Sooooo...
You have chambers you're lookin to get rid of? :P
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Sep 28, 2014, 21:02:41
How about we just make you some new ones. I could use the practice.  ;)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: shaggycb750c on Sep 28, 2014, 22:24:15
That exhaust is the tits
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Oct 03, 2014, 21:36:52
Got Foam?
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20141003_142132_zpsyabjceri.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20141003_142132_zpsyabjceri.jpg.html)
4" thick kayak seat foam. I cut out the inside so that it would sit down over  the seat pan. It wasn't easy but I got it done. I think that I dig the way it came out and am glad that I decided to ditch the original fiberglass seat that I built.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20141003_181605_zpsulszfmpn.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20141003_181605_zpsulszfmpn.jpg.html)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/Bike%20Build/20141003_181613_zps5shuffml.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/Bike%20Build/20141003_181613_zps5shuffml.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Nov 02, 2014, 21:56:06
Alright, I started to cover my seat and realized that my staples aren't going to cut in this fiberglass. They are holding it but I had to stop up front when they were not digging in far enough. I will probably go with some short self tapping screws and washers to hold it in place. So far so good on that.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20141024_162715_zps2wfutqku.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/20141024_162715_zps2wfutqku.jpg.html)
I started on the new chambers this afternoon. I went ahead and just bought some pre bent tubing, I think this may help it to go a little faster. I'm going to try and knock out the cones this week if I get some free time after work. The set that I initially built just slid straight into the manifold and oozed burnt offerings so I changed it up and went with a two piece design. This way I can slip an oring in there to seal it off.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20141102_163954_zpsca6ugcdi.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/20141102_163954_zpsca6ugcdi.jpg.html)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20141102_164022_zpsqjuejvqm.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/20141102_164022_zpsqjuejvqm.jpg.html)
and the Daytona didn't last a week before I tore it to pieces. Lol.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: bradj on Nov 03, 2014, 19:52:40
I love this build by the way
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: VonYinzer on Nov 06, 2014, 21:53:58
I love this build by the way

As much as you love rough assplay? I doubt it.









Seriously though Clem... Rad stuff. Keep at it.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Redbird on Nov 07, 2014, 17:12:21
and the Daytona didn't last a week before I tore it to pieces. Lol.
*facepalm*
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Nov 07, 2014, 19:07:54
Chris, at least I waited until it started to cool off a bit. My wife facepalmed me when she saw it in pieces.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: bradj on Nov 08, 2014, 01:34:53
As much as you love rough assplay? I doubt it.









Seriously though Clem... Rad stuff. Keep at it.
I want to kick a cd in your mouth sideways
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Nov 08, 2014, 22:48:05
Beside the entertainnent thats going on, I welded the first diffuser.  Gas welding is just so damn peaceful. I also discovered the trick of placing a small piece of angle iron on the front of the rollers to guide the cone through.That made rolling the cones a bit quicker.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20141108_203513_zpsdwlxonoz.jpg)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: johnu on Nov 09, 2014, 18:26:42
Hey Clem, you are right about the gas welding I really enjoy an afternoon with the oxy-acetylene.  Although a friend of mine just offered me a FREE Tig welder, big water cooled job too!  Anyway the cones look good and yes the angle iron trick works well although sometimes I have to use a set of vice grips on the the small end of the cone. 
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Nov 09, 2014, 22:15:13
John that sounds like a sweet deal for yourself! I have one done up to the belly. I may stop there and finish the rest of the cones done .
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20141109_191758_zpseak09sen.jpg)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: xb33bsa on Nov 09, 2014, 23:26:05
looking good clem
are the head pipes correct length ? they  look long
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Nov 11, 2014, 08:38:31
Long? What do you recommend for a stock DS7 with RD350 carbs? I read the Jordan Gennings stuff awhile back and figured that I'd have a 50/50 shot of getting this right but hey my little tape measure with the flowers on it has both metric and imperial markings on them so that  may reduce my chances.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Dec 06, 2014, 22:13:52
Well it's that time again. Yep progress time. I figured after messing with this thing for almost two years now that I should make a push to actually finish it.
I went ahead and mounted the front turn signals, ebay special from an EX500, I think.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20141129_145511_zpszp2b4mex.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/20141129_145511_zpszp2b4mex.jpg.html)
Work on the exhaust chambers went full tilt. I almost had them completed in one day but time ran out and I shut it down with the sunset.
So yeah  I'm a little on the cheap side and try to use what I have laying around.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20141205_162451_zpswwme94pk.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/20141205_162451_zpswwme94pk.jpg.html)
I can only imagine what a good torch could do.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20141205_172203_zpsqvcdcfbt.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/20141205_172203_zpsqvcdcfbt.jpg.html)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20141206_173115_zpssbdouinl.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/20141206_173115_zpssbdouinl.jpg.html)
I still have one more of those baffle cones to roll out. It's about 50% of the way there but those baffles are a beast of a cone to roll. I'll try to get the stingers done tomorrow also.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20141206_173208_zpscygavalc.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/20141206_173208_zpscygavalc.jpg.html)

Next up is getting an oil tank built into the rear cowl, then hopefully I'm done with sparks and torches and grinders.......
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Dec 08, 2014, 21:55:39
I went ahead and got the last baffle cone done on Sunday. I also set the stinger flush with the end of the belly. I need to weld them in but I may wait until I get the silencers. I am looking at the TZ mike ones, they seem to be the best bang for your buck apart from the cheapo ones on ebay. I have to see how the Christmas money rolls first though. I purchased some flush mount flashers for the rear so hopefully I can get that knocked out soon.
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20141207_191809_zps2re4angy.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/20141207_191809_zps2re4angy.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: xb33bsa on Dec 08, 2014, 22:17:28
hey clem i have a nice set of carbon kevlar silencers off an ape
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Dec 08, 2014, 22:24:31
What ID are they? My stingers are 22mm the TZ are 25mm which means that I wouldnt need to add them to the stinger length.
Is this ape a japanese bike?
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: xb33bsa on Dec 08, 2014, 22:34:24
250 APRILIA
id is about 23mm
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Dec 08, 2014, 22:41:19
Shoot me a pm with price picture social security number........well maybe not the social. Haha
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Erskine on Dec 09, 2014, 19:37:16
Dunno how I have missed your build til now.
Like your style.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Dec 09, 2014, 23:01:10
Thanks Erskine. I wish my style was finished, I'd be a whole lot happier. Two years in and this was a slow process but I enjoyed watching it unfold and progress. Some things changed over time but that is part of what made it fun.
I've been thinking of going chappy red with the frame fender and tail section. Might actually turn out cool.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: teazer on Dec 10, 2014, 03:18:42
And if Clem, doesn't want those mufflers, PM me a pic and price.

Tho cones look short.  What peak revs are they set for?
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Dec 10, 2014, 07:08:43
8500 rpms
edit: 9500 rpms
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Dec 10, 2014, 08:33:51
And Teazer, I thought the same thing about the cones. I went back and checked out my math and it works out correctly. I went back and looked at a bunch of pictures of chambers on the net and some look close to this length while some don't. One thing that puzzles me is the difference in stinger lengths out there. I know that you can shorten the appearance by stuffing it into the baffle cone but some just seem long for the application. It's all hard to tell from pictures but when I physically have it in my hand it seems that the dimensions are close to the 125 pipes that I've had in the past. I know that you have a better eye for this kind of stuff than I do but hopefully I'm not too far off and it will pull decently.
  I don't have any simulation software. I only have the pdf copies of the tuning books by both popular authors so I made a spreadsheet for the calculations. A fun exercise that I did was to get my 13 year old daughter to do all of the calculations on paper to verify. That was the only time she was interested in helping out on the bike. :)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: teazer on Dec 10, 2014, 13:07:12
I figured you were going to say 10,500.  My last TZ250 had pipes that were similar in length to yours, but its ports would have been slightly different.

If you email or PM me your pipe and port dimensions I can run them through MOTA and see what it says.

I hear you on stingers.  The dimensions appear not to be critical unless they are really too small and raise pipe temps too high.  Drag race guys seem to like smaller diameters to raise pipe temps and that raises the speed of sound and stretches the power curve a little.  That's OK for ten seconds at a time but not much use on a street bike.

22mm dumping into a larger diameter muffler should be fine.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: pjgrakauskas on Dec 12, 2014, 09:40:04
damn good looking smoker!

grab a really good hot glue gun for the upholstery. i've done plenty of seat covers on fiberglass pans, even the strongest of staplers wont help.

just my two cents...
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Dec 12, 2014, 14:03:59
You are correct, staples don't get it when it comes to fiberglass. I am going to try some very short self tapping screws with flat washers. I may mix in some hot glue to help things along. Thanks for the tip.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Maritime on Dec 12, 2014, 14:08:23
Clem, I have done many seats on fiberglass. Drill holes around the pan, use a punch to poke the leather and a rivet with a washer is the best method.  If you mess up drill out the center and do it again.  Basically you have a hole ready in the pan, pull the leather to where it needs to be and the poke the punch through into the hole and then put the rivet and washer in and pop. move to the next hole.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Dec 12, 2014, 16:36:41
Clem, I have done many seats on fiberglass. Drill holes around the pan, use a punch to poke the leather and a rivet with a washer is the best method.  If you mess up drill out the center and do it again.  Basically you have a hole ready in the pan, pull the leather to where it needs to be and the poke the punch through into the hole and then put the rivet and washer in and pop. move to the next hole.

That sounds like a good plan also.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: xb33bsa on Dec 12, 2014, 17:25:42
you  have the silencers with the mail today  8)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Dec 12, 2014, 17:37:19
you  have the silencers with the mail today  8)
Damn this is weird! I checked the mail when I got home and had a few envelopes. Just sat down on the porch to get the kids off of the bus and read this post. I figured what the hell XB knows a thing or two so I got up and checked the mail again. The silencers are now here. Are you watching me? Haha
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: 7aliveatlast7 on Dec 13, 2014, 23:27:42
nice work on those chambers!!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: teazer on Dec 14, 2014, 00:01:59
Your pipes look pretty good on MOTA with stock ports. It peaks about where you expected it to and is all round not bad at all. I pushed around the pipe dimensions and tried all sorts of different ports, and some work really well but need a slightly different pipe.  Next step is to work on the transfers and that's not simple without the right tools.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Dec 14, 2014, 17:42:04
Porting guy's down here are rare, many boat guy's but I wouldn't let them touch my cylinders with a toothbrush much less a dentist drill. I do have a set of RD350 cylinders that need a bore job though.;)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Dec 14, 2014, 21:17:02
I went ahead and finished the seat today. I made a variation of the advice given here. I bought a sharp center punch, drilled holes in the seat pan and installed some small stainless screws with upholstery type washers:

(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20141214_175843_zpsk7x8qa1p.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/20141214_175843_zpsk7x8qa1p.jpg.html)

(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z450/5150clem/20141214_175856_zpsslqsalt3.jpg) (http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/5150clem/media/20141214_175856_zpsslqsalt3.jpg.html)







It's getting there!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Swagger on Dec 14, 2014, 23:19:39
Looks like it got there, got bored and left and has come back again for seconds.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: xb33bsa on Dec 14, 2014, 23:22:24
looking good clem , lets see them silencers on dare
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Dec 24, 2014, 08:32:29
Here ya go XB
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: xb33bsa on Dec 24, 2014, 22:37:42
wow  :) she is a beauty love what you have done with it ! srsly it looks the dogs shizzles  :D
 what kind of tailight will you do ?
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Dec 24, 2014, 22:52:15
EX250 tailight is stuffed in there. I haven't got a clue yet on blinkers though but I'm sure something will fall into place if I look at it long enough. Lol
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: xb33bsa on Dec 24, 2014, 23:28:43
signals hmmmmm...i have some nos "flush mount" jobs that may work for you
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Dec 24, 2014, 23:35:19
I bought some flush mounts but they are too big to fit anywhere.  I'm not opposed to standard type signals just have to find the right place.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: High On Octane on Dec 26, 2014, 08:33:52
I've always been a fan of these style turn signals:

http://www.bikebandit.com/aftermarket-parts/motorcycle-electrical-parts/turn-signals-universal/bikemaster-narrow-arrow-head-ii-l-e-d-turn-signals

Luckily, here in Colorado, turn signals aren't required to be street legal.  ;)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Dec 27, 2014, 21:42:29
In Louisiana, if the vehicle was not manufactured with them you don't need them. This one had them and I'd feel a little better off with  them.
Those style turn signals are a consideration although I didn't want LED's. I was hoping to get more done on the bike over this weekend but the water heater broke on Christmas day so time an money are going to that right now.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Jan 03, 2015, 14:36:22
Over the break I made a new shifter so that I could get all things parallel and perpendicular to aid in the shifting. I ordered a peg from Fast From The Past, I made the rest with a porta-band and hand files. I hate working crude but it's what I got. I am also thinking about running the side covers. Maybe not these but some from a RD250/350. Still undecided.
I should be bringing the exhaust manifolds and the kick stand to the aluminum welder today. The manifolds are a two piece press fit but I need to get them welded so that I can turn down the backside flush with the flange. Even though they are the same O.D. as the gasket the still leaked carbon ooze so I'll use RTV on the whole flange once it's done. This change in length was accounted for in the header prior to fabrication in case anyone is wondering. I need more acetylene to finish the last bit on the chambers.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Big Rich on Jan 03, 2015, 19:36:02
I've always been a fan of these style turn signals:

http://www.bikebandit.com/aftermarket-parts/motorcycle-electrical-parts/turn-signals-universal/bikemaster-narrow-arrow-head-ii-l-e-d-turn-signals

Luckily, here in Colorado, turn signals aren't required to be street legal.  ;)

I have a set of the same / similar turn signals. They are BRIGHT and pretty small.

Good work so far Clem.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: xb33bsa on Jan 03, 2015, 19:39:39
hey clem i have some of these,you may like
cast alooniun  :P

(http://www.lockhartphillipsusa.com/images/D/0-795.jpg)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Jan 04, 2015, 17:33:02
XB those are very nice. I already have a set of blinkers on the front and as petty as it sounds those wouldn't match what I already have. I would need (4) of those aluminum style like you have that way I could swap out the front. I am trying to score some parts for the daytona right now so I may not spend any big money on this one for a couple of weeks. The pains of multiple projects....
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Apr 21, 2015, 23:27:02
No pictorial update here. I have made some progress on this in the shifting category. If you recall this was a troublesome area on this bike. I split the cases and started to manually go through the gears so that I could see what was going on here first hand. 1st gear would engage, I watched 2nd gear slide over and then right before the dogs would catch it would slighly shift back in the opposite direction.  3rd gear would act the same as 2nd. 4th thru 6th were fine. I was puzzled wondering if maybe I had the wrong shift drum in there so I pulled that out and compared it to one off of a RD400 and it was the same.  Still puzzled. Looked atbthe shift stopper(star) and it wasn't indexed like the 400 was so I went to counting the indents and behold I had a 5 speed stopper on the 6 speed drum. So much greif over something so silly. It shifts!
I also had to re do the shock mount both top and bottom. I noticed that I had the angle of the bell crank fixed to where it was sitting to far along in its given range making the suspension very stiff. In order to correct this I would have to lower the shock. This put the shock closer to a 90deg angle with the upper mount. This would now put full force on the upper mount so I went RZ style with it. The bike is very plush in its initial stroke now.
The frame will go to the powder coater this weekend so I should be able to put new pics up soon.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: VonYinzer on Apr 25, 2015, 12:37:39
Done yet?
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Apr 26, 2015, 15:18:09
Mike
If you leave your house now and start walking, I'll be done by the time you get here. You can have the first ride. Haha. I'm still trying to get this stuff dropped off at the powder coater. Seems like our schedules are off. Good news is that if I drop it off by  Monday it should be done by the weekend.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: VonYinzer on Apr 26, 2015, 21:35:58
Deal. :)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on May 09, 2015, 19:39:21
Got the frame back. I need to paint the tins and the triple clamps then onto the clutch and brake lever. I'm hoping it won't be difficult to get insurance on this bike. I had to submit pictures for my 160 so we'll see.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: VonYinzer on May 16, 2015, 13:11:21
Cool beans buddy
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Redbird on May 19, 2015, 15:31:56
That's just sexyness right there :)
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on May 19, 2015, 22:56:45
That's just sexyness right there :)
and to think that I forgot about the fascination with red there buddy. Time for a fresh avatar dude.
I put the front end back together tonight. I painted the lower fork legs bronze and installed new front wheel bearings. I still need to set the timing and get the fork brace and electrical tray coated. It getting close, think its been over 280 days so far.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: johnu on May 19, 2015, 23:50:00
Looking good Clem!  Just let me know when it is ready for me to test ride it ;D
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on May 20, 2015, 08:18:20
John mosquito season is about to kick in down here, we will need all of the smoke that we can get. The more rides the better.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: johnu on May 20, 2015, 10:52:16
John mosquito season is about to kick in down here, we will need all of the smoke that we can get. The more rides the better.
If I was to bring the 500 down there we would will have more than enough smoke ;)  Mind you that would be a long ride from Cali sitting on 3/8" seat foam :D
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on May 21, 2015, 12:32:41
I'm inching closer. Got the pipes back on:
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: 1sttimer on May 23, 2015, 10:58:51
Looks mean Clem!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on May 23, 2015, 12:19:24
Thanks dude
Well I burnt up my ballistic battery. I used it to start my lawnmower and dropped the positive lead. It shorted out and quickly fired it . So now what? I mean at least my grass got cut. I'm thinking about just doing away with the battery instead of dropping another $130 bucks. I would just need to rewire the coil and add a switch to ground.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: xb33bsa on May 23, 2015, 13:58:44
you dont ride at night ?
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on May 23, 2015, 14:00:17
MZB ignition xb. You don't need no stinking battery with it. Lol
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: teazer on May 23, 2015, 14:02:14
How about a small AGM to help smooth out the pulses at low speed and around town.  Ignition on those is CDI yes? so it's only an issue of having lights when sitting at a red light.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on May 23, 2015, 14:04:43
That is correct teaser. Some people complain at idle, some say its a non issue. I may just try it out and see how it goes but yes an agm would fit the bill or a kill switch to ground.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: xb33bsa on May 23, 2015, 14:46:20
MZB ignition xb. You don't need no stinking battery with it. Lol
safety was my concern...dark lonely country road... for some reason the engines die or you feel the need to cut off the ignition ...pitch blackness bro... ..besides sitting off the edge with no light way for oncoming tariffic to see you
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on May 23, 2015, 15:08:11
I see your point xb. I'm not totally sold on having no battery.

Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on May 31, 2015, 00:37:28
I got the electrical tray, fork brace and clutch lever back from powder coat. The bike is 90% wired up again. I decided to go with a shorai battery this time around, it seems a bit more sold than the ballistic. Next up is getting the tail section and tank ready for paint.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Brodie on May 31, 2015, 08:02:15
Looks good mate.

My only concern is airflow over the reg/rec.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on May 31, 2015, 11:54:48
Brodie, the tank is pretty open as is the elec tray. Kinda looks like a wind tunnel in there. Lol. Thanks dude.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 2 years and counting.
Post by: clem on Jul 19, 2015, 18:59:00
I can't say it's done yet but I'm inching closer. I have black and gold decals coming along with a carbon fiber front fender. I dropped the previous fender on the ground during the primer stage and through much frustration decided CF would be easier than paint. I am going to reset the timing once more before I fire her up again. Hopefully I won't have any hiccups.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: AgentX on Jul 19, 2015, 19:51:15
Nice work, brother.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Powderfinger on Jul 19, 2015, 20:13:59
Awesome! If it runs as good as it looks you're set.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: jpmobius on Jul 19, 2015, 20:14:58
Beautiful bike sir!  Red on red with gold wheels is hard to beat - been wanting to do that myself for a long time!  Could be an inspiration!  A 400 tank and 350 side covers always make a nice combo.  Love those piston port motors too - that's a real 2-stroke there!  I've done several battery-less street bikes - personally don't have an issue with the low electrical power at idle, but I haven't been light-less on the side of the road at night either.  Have to say that for me, the simplicity and super strong and completely independent (at least on my bikes) ignition is extremely confidence inspiring so I don't harbor any concern.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Jul 19, 2015, 22:57:24
JP, I definitely took a page off of Redbird's DS7 with the 350 side cover and oil tank. I find that the stock DS7 covers look like they came from the Jetsons cartoon so I set them aside. I am going with this set of decals but I am dropping the white and going black and gold only on them. It's small stuff now, I need to get a 10mm fine thread lock nut for the upper shock mount, the oil tank and side cover dampers and a battery and I should be good to go. The only thing that I remember about old school two strokes was that they were just like light switches, either on or off!
Powderfinger, thanks for the compliment, she did run fine before I tore it down for paint.
AgentX, Will we see the Enfield War Pig this October?
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: AgentX on Jul 20, 2015, 03:36:06
Clem, I will still be in Africa...there is a small chance of me making the 2016-2019 Barber events because while I will be posted stateside, my deployment schedule will be fairly brutal.  Too bad-would love to see this machine in person and drink some more beer...!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Jul 20, 2015, 07:37:45
Ah, Africa. Have you ever watched The Long Way Down? Seems like some places there have great people. Maybe that's just TV.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: jpmobius on Jul 20, 2015, 11:31:26
I find that the stock DS7 covers look like they came from the Jetsons cartoon so I set them aside.
Jetsons definitely!  Super cool on the right bike and awesome on a restored bike with that chrome though.

I am going with this set of decals but I am dropping the white and going black and gold only on them.
Just my $0.02, I think your bike looks fantastic unadorned, so maybe think about keeping the decal work to a minimum.  Sometimes less is more!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Jul 20, 2015, 13:40:24
Jetsons definitely!  Super cool on the right bike and awesome on a restored bike with that chrome though.
Just my $0.02, I think your bike looks fantastic unadorned, so maybe think about keeping the decal work to a minimum.  Sometimes less is more!

By seeing some of your work here I'd say that your $0.02 is worth a few dollars. Initially I was just going to use the Yamaha decals from the Daytona special tank. I have ordered those so at a minimum they will get applied. The side covers will be left sans decal but I was considering using those decals on the lower part of the tail section. I agree with the simplistic look that you are reffering too. Once I have the decals in hand is when I'll probably make the decision. It'll either be a winner or a costly trial.  ;)

By the way, have you seen the bike in the banner above? Slick is an easy way to describe it.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: AgentX on Jul 20, 2015, 18:44:02
Ah, Africa. Have you ever watched The Long Way Down? Seems like some places there have great people. Maybe that's just TV.

Haven't had a chance to, but I look forward to it once I can get a copy.  Africa's full of people who'd give you their sole dirty, torn t-shirt off their back simply for showing up.  With a smattering of those who'd hack you with a machete for your own, or just for the fun of it.

Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Jul 20, 2015, 22:12:34
I've been watching it on netflix. Watched the long way round and now I'm on the Ethiopia episode of the long way down. Ethiopia looked like a rad place to ride.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Aug 01, 2015, 20:13:38
I got the bike back together functionally. When I bought the bike the PO had some carbs hanging off of it that came home with me. I didn't know at that time but they were carbs for a RD250/350. They have the 25 pilots and 140 mains. Right now the bike idles fine and will rev out fine if you quickly get them up. Just a slow blip of the throttle and the bike will bog down and sometimes die. The DS7 carbs came with a 40 pilot jet, I don't know if I should go up that high with these carbs or go for the 35's as that seems to be the fix for a RD250 with chambers, y-boot etc. Any thoughts?

I also set the timing per the MZB instructions at 2.5mm BTDC.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Aug 01, 2015, 20:20:23
Short video at idle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMaEt7QL1_o
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Erskine on Aug 01, 2015, 20:35:02
Clem mate, you rock.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: jpmobius on Aug 01, 2015, 22:45:14
I got the bike back together functionally. When I bought the bike the PO had some carbs hanging off of it that came home with me. I didn't know at that time but they were carbs for a RD250/350. They have the 25 pilots and 140 mains. Right now the bike idles fine and will rev out fine if you quickly get them up. Just a slow blip of the throttle and the bike will bog down and sometimes die. The DS7 carbs came with a 40 pilot jet, I don't know if I should go up that high with these carbs or go for the 35's as that seems to be the fix for a RD250 with chambers, y-boot etc. Any thoughts?

I also set the timing per the MZB instructions at 2.5mm BTDC.

for the record (yep, laziness is keeping me from reviewing this long (though excellent) thread) could you please list the engine mods.  I am not familiar with running mzb, but presume the advance curve brings the advance way down at revs.  Very important to see what it is on the big end.  I suggest (as always) ignoring EVERYTHING until you get the mains determined.  My dart throw says #140 mains will be massively tiny.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Aug 01, 2015, 23:13:08
Jp, no mods here. Top end is stock ds7 @ .25 over bore. Stock porting stock heads. 25 pilot and 140 mains were stock for the rd250 and 350.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: TranceMachineVienna on Aug 02, 2015, 07:27:16
Hey clem,my RD 250 has stock 25 idle and 115 mains and a slide with 2.0 cut away.
I'll be switching to Y boot soon so your jetting will be interesting fkr me.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: jpmobius on Aug 02, 2015, 10:52:38
First thing I would want to do is determine the timing at 7000 + rpm.  I'd want it to be about 1.8 mm BTDC to start with.  I'd start with #25 pilots, but ignore them until I got the mains and timing dialed in.  I'd start with #200's and not be pre-convinced they will be rich - though they probably will be.  No telling what your pipes will like.  Ignore drivability no matter how bad until the mains are correct.  Then fuss with the pilots and then the drivability.  Slide cutaway was 2.5 stock I believe on the Rd carbs.  I might start with the DS7 carbs though.  If you use the RD carbs - remember to seal off the oil injector ports with a bit of silicone.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: teazer on Aug 02, 2015, 11:54:45
According to my notes, DS7 had 182 O-0 needle jets, 40 pilots and 140 mains.   RD250 dropped down to 25 pilots which suggests teh pilot jet outlet and air passages are different because the piston port motor should have a lot of reversion and should need smaller pilots, so if you have stock DS7 carbs start with a 40 to play safe and start with a 140 main or larger just to be safe.

A 182 (primary) will be much richer at wide open high rpm running than a 175 (Bleed), so you may need a smaller main jet than the RD guys end up with. Start rich and work down.  Jets are much cheaper than pistons...

JP is right that high rpm timing is more important.  I'd expect it to run at 2.0mm but 1.8 is safer with modern gas.  1.85 is where we typically set high rpm race TD3 or TZ250 motors.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Aug 02, 2015, 13:07:56
I don't have the stock carbs for the bike. Don't know if it would be worth buying a set or just tuning the Rd carbs that I have. It seemed to pull fine up top once it got there at around 6500 rpm. I don't know how to set the timing for a particular rpm on the power dynamo iggy. The zeel box could do it.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: AgentX on Aug 02, 2015, 13:27:25
Short video at idle


Nice!  No manly revving for us tho?!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Aug 02, 2015, 14:50:06
I'm going to play the manly card once its,running right. Lol
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: xb33bsa on Aug 02, 2015, 15:08:06
you need some blendzall gold label racing castor octane booster for the fuel just the wonderful aroma as it burns off is worth the extra 50 sents per gallon of gas  :) mind you you can mix it much stronger but an ounce or 2 per gallon gits ya the smell of that other planet we used to live on
i also use it in my 4 strokes ,instead of or as well as getting looks, people be sniffin' at you too  ;D

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/12607/i/blendzall-gold-label-racing-castor-octane-booster
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: jpmobius on Aug 02, 2015, 17:46:36
You should be able to use a strobe light.  Pretty sure the Ds7-R5 alternators are about the same as the RDs and have two notches on the outer edge visible through the opening near the top where the brushes mount.  The ones I have checked on RDs are very close to the 2mm BTDC stock timing.  The notches should be at 12 o-clock for 2 mm, so if you set them to align at 12:10 - 12:15 you will be very close to the 1.8 safety zone.  It would pay to slap a degree wheel on there and make your own marks at 1.8mm so you have a reference you are certain is correct.  That is what I do on Rds that use the stock alternator rotor.  By the way - spending much time at or above the 8500 stock red line will eventually cause the rotor to shake itself to bits.  I have had several rotors that tested fine on the bench but became open or shorted circuits when spinning.  When it fails you will have no warning except you will be running on battery until it runs out - then you will be pushing!  Can't recall if the MZB is just the ignition or is the whole charging system.

Blendzall.   yup!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Aug 02, 2015, 18:30:48
MZB came with permanent mag flywheel reg/rectifier, coil and cdi.
I used to run Klotz 2t oil with c12(I think that was the name) race fuel on the motocross track. It smelled like cotton candy. Don't know if Klotz still makes any oils that are good.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: jpmobius on Aug 02, 2015, 19:44:09
Ok, so all you would need to do is slap a dial indicator in one of the cylinders, set the crank to 1.80 mm BTDC (or whatever you wish), and make a mark on the permanent magnet flywheel that lines up with another mark on the engine case.  Done!  Run the motor with a strobe light connected to it, rev it up to 7 grand and adjust the iggy to make the marks align!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Aug 07, 2015, 23:22:15
I don't have a strobe to check the timing but it was set with a dial gauge per the manufacturer specs.
I installed larger pilot jets(35's) and that took the bottom end bog out. I think that I may have to go through the carbs again and make sure that the slow circuit is completely clean as the air screw is not doing anything when turned in or out. Fun Fun Fun.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: TranceMachineVienna on Aug 08, 2015, 16:26:59
Hey clem!i dont know if your carbs
are 100 per cent similar to mine (2R8 RD carbs,mikuni 28ss) but i had a similar problem.

There is a tiny air passageway which was blocked.look into the venturi of the carbs (motor not intake side) it is positioned before the oil injector bore on the bottom.
Use a syringe with a thin needle with carb cleaner and afterwards air to make it meticulously clean.
Ultrasonic cleaning doesnt do s**** to this passage :-)

This passage messed with my starting and idling pretty bad.
On the pic you can see it in the background behind the needle jet hole.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Aug 09, 2015, 00:12:55
Ryan, I did look into that inlet. I have a clear path from there through the air screw and into the venturi on the other side of the slide. I took the carbs back apart today to recheck everything. I put them back together turned the petcock on on it immediately flooded the engine. It was too hot to take it all back apart so I said to heck with it. I did put the decals on though.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: teazer on Aug 09, 2015, 13:03:03
That looks really nice Clem.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: jpmobius on Aug 09, 2015, 13:36:18
Great looking bike!  Who doesn't like a red bike?

Highly recommend you think about investing in a cheap strobe light and gain certainty of your ignition timing.  It is not a case of how well it runs, but whether or not you melt holes in your pistons.  Very common for people to report how great their bike was running just before . . . .   Ignition timing is more critical than jetting to prevent disaster - though jetting usually gets the blame more often.  Usually it take both, but no amount of over jetting the mains will overcome too much advance.

Once you do that and the bike starts and stays running reasonably well (seems like you are already there (once you determine the flooding issue)), just get the main jets right.  You probably are wasting your time on anything else except deciding on which style of needle jet/emulsion tube you want to use.  All the drivability tuning can come last.  Do it the other way around and you may find yourself starting over (again!) after you find you need different timing and/or mains.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Aug 09, 2015, 16:33:51
Thanks Teazer.
JP I'll define try look into a timing light. Should on at the auto store work?
You're saying to start jetting the top end or 3/4 throttle on up first then go down to 1/2 then 1/4?
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: teazer on Aug 09, 2015, 16:47:11
I like to get the bottom end close so I can start the fool thing and get moving.  Then it is important to get WOT high rpm right and after that worry about midrange.  If you try to play with the main jet to get it rideable, the WOT setting is unlikely to be close and that will bite later - either through poor performance or worse.

Go up a long way from stock.  You may be surprised what a large main jet it needs .
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Aug 09, 2015, 17:24:24
I dropped a 200 main in there to get it richer to be safe. Most of what I've read leaned around that on mains. Clip is in the middle position right now. The 200 seemed rich when I rode it last. I'll  verify timing then get the air screws to function properly. From there I'll start at wot.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: jpmobius on Aug 09, 2015, 18:29:08
Any high intensity gun style automotive strobe timing light will work fine.  The light doesn't know it is being connected to a motorcycle - is simply blinks the strobe light on when it detects the plug being fired.  It can be a really cheap one, you don't need anything fancy.  Really cheap ones do not have an inductive pick up, so you have to plug a "T" connector into a spark plug lead, which should come with it.  Actually on your bike, you probably will need to make an extension for a plug wire anyway, as the factory lead is so short it is very hard to get an inductive pick up on it.  You will need to check the mzb for timing marks so you know what you have.  Probably the easiest way is to put in a dial indicator and either see what is already on the mzb or make your own marks that align at the timing you desire.   Then just rev it up to whatever rpm you want to check the timing at, check with the strobe and adjust accordingly.  Hopefully the mzb will have the correct timing but it pays to be sure.

Like Teazer says, jet the mains for Wide Open Throttle.  That is JUST WOT, not 75% to 100% - just wide open.  The reason is that at anything less, you will be running on the (presumably) more restricted needle and needle jet.  This insures that, at least at WOT you will not be lean.  Unfortunately it is still possible to be lean at part throttle openings if the needle/needle jet is too restrictive, but you aren't asking for max power at part throttle, so injuring your engine is vastly less likely.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Aug 16, 2015, 18:20:56
I put a timing light on it to check the timing. It was firing at 2.5mm BTDC as per MZB. I found out that that was Euro spec timing so I went back to yamaha factory settings at 1.8mm BTDC.
The overflow was caused by the float pins somehow getting on top of the float arm. It seems very difficult to mess this up since the float guides are on the bowl and the float arm is on the carb itself. You have to put the floats and bowl on from the bottom up so I don't know how this happened. It was visible once the bowl drain plug was removed, regardless it is now corrected.
The air screw is now functional and increases RPM on the bike at idle. The lean bog is still at <1/4 throttle and the highest rev at idle came in at 1/2 turn out. I'm going to go up on the pilot again to try and get the idle circuit set at the Yamaha spec of  1 - 3/4 turns out on the screw.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: jpmobius on Aug 16, 2015, 19:14:44
Good job on the timing light.  When you set the timing to 1.8, what rpm did you use?  Do you have any info on an advance curve with the MZB?

Edit:  Just looked up the MZB iggy - evidently no timing curve so you should be good to go!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Aug 16, 2015, 20:02:41
They make a programmable controller for it. I need miles on the bike before I even think of that. I did the checking by myself so I couldn't look up at the tach while twisting the throttle to get the rpm. As your query turned up,  there is no curve.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Sep 12, 2015, 23:34:02
Just wanted to post up that I finally put some miles on the bike this evening, about 30 to be exact. 958 days after I brought the bike home she is street legal!
I had to pull the jet needle out and clean that off then she ran fine. I can now do plug chops on the bike. It was kinda cool to look back in the rear view mirror and see my riding buddy in a cloud of blue smoke. Lol. Have a great weekend DTT!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: AgentX on Sep 13, 2015, 03:51:02
Congrats!  Great feeling to be moving, no?  I just finally got 30 miles or so (in a row!) on mine last Monday...
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Sep 13, 2015, 11:13:53
Yeah man I saw the pics you posted. Looks like some rad scenery. On a rad bike.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Sep 21, 2015, 16:21:55
I put more miles on this weekend. I put 200 mains in and she pulled to 9K pretty easily. I have a 32.5 pilot in right now and the air screw is 2-1/2 turns out which is telling me it's still too rich. I know stock was 25 and I can't see it going that low with the Y-boot and chambers. Hopefully this weekend the 30 will be the one.
Title: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Ply318ci on Dec 26, 2015, 11:32:57
I know it has been a few months since you posted but I have a question. First I have read your entire thread and awesome job and congrats on the BOTM for January nomination.

Second how did you decide on the angle to mount the top mount of the Ninja Suspension where the top of the shock bolts to?  I have a Ninja 250 swing arm and rear linkage along with a GSXR shock I am thinking of mounting up on my RD350 just like you did and I cant seem to find how to do the top mount at the correct angle or length. Thanks.

If you answered that in your thread (and I some how missed it) you can just post the post number and that works for me. Once again bad ass bike. Really like it.


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Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Dec 26, 2015, 12:57:04
Thank you for the kind words. The angle at the top Mount was dictated by the angle of the bell crank. The bell crank needed to be parallel to the floor so from there I set the top mount. I missed the mark on the first try and had the bell crank in a stiffer spot of its stroke. Getting the bell crank angle correct made a huge difference in the suspension.  Good luck with the swap and hit me up if you need help.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Ply318ci on Dec 26, 2015, 17:10:56
Awesome that is exactly what I needed to know. I will let you know when I need help. Your thread has been a huge inspiration for my build.


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Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Dec 26, 2015, 19:55:54
Cool man. The bell crank should wind up being 90 deg. to the shock also. This way it will put full force on the shock.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: canyoncarver on Dec 26, 2015, 23:04:38
A nice long build and you brought that beauty to Barber.  Hell of a bike man.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Dec 26, 2015, 23:19:05
Then I just put in a little gas and go! Lol
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Ply318ci on Dec 26, 2015, 23:42:02

Cool man. The bell crank should wind up being 90 deg. to the shock also. This way it will put full force on the shock.

Awesome. I also saw you put in a brace for the shock to mount up to that went all the way across the frame instead of the piece that just stuck out like the stock ninja. Did that make it easier to mount or was it just for added strength.


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Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Dec 27, 2015, 08:50:38
When I readjusted the bell crank, the shock was lowered from the first position. With that, it put the shock closer to 90 deg. to the upper mount. That was when I decided to extend the upper mount similar to an RZ350 frame as Teaser suggested.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: TranceMachineVienna on Dec 27, 2015, 09:19:46
Clem how does it feel riding it?i thinking about something similar,but i dont know if this mod would be a big advantage to the stock configuration...
It looks the bees knees man...killer!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Dec 27, 2015, 11:15:38
Ryan, the bike was so bad that I never rode the stock setup. Our roads are pretty rough here and it handles them pretty well now. It turns well and handles a straight line at 80mph great also. I only have about 300 miles on the bike so far. It seems like when I do get the chance to ride it's raining. The time change here sucks too. When I leave in the morning it's dark and when I get home it's dark so it's only weekends. I do need to set the rear sag on it and the oil height in the front. When the springtime comes I plan on working that out. I may start another thread for the suspension setup on the site.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Ply318ci on Dec 27, 2015, 11:21:16

When I readjusted the bell crank, the shock was lowered from the first position. With that, it put the shock closer to 90 deg. to the upper mount. That was when I decided to extend the upper mount similar to an RZ350 frame as Teaser suggested.

Once again thanks. One more question what did you use (thickness, type of metal, shape) to crest your upper mount. Thanks again.


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Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Dec 27, 2015, 13:13:35
I used 1 x 1.5" tubular if I recall. I could measure it for you but I'm stuck in a hotel waiting for a blizzard to pass so we can get to New Mexico.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: redwillissuperman on Dec 27, 2015, 13:15:20

I used 1 x 1.5" tubular if I recall. I could measure it for you but I'm stuck in a hotel waiting for a blizzard to pass so we can get to New Mexico.

Ha ha. I'm in Albuquerque trying to find a place open for breakfast.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Ply318ci on Dec 27, 2015, 13:34:32

I used 1 x 1.5" tubular if I recall. I could measure it for you but I'm stuck in a hotel waiting for a blizzard to pass so we can get to New Mexico.

No worries that is perfect. Thanks.


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Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: canyoncarver on Dec 27, 2015, 14:05:52
I used 1 x 1.5" tubular if I recall. I could measure it for you but I'm stuck in a hotel waiting for a blizzard to pass so we can get to New Mexico.

And I already live in New Mexico, in said blizzard, having breakfast. 
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: redwillissuperman on Dec 27, 2015, 14:28:19
 (http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/27/6ec097e7ad4164cab7a3c0850aa58ba9.jpg)
Central Grille is serving chicken fried steak.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Dec 27, 2015, 14:46:09
Nice. Hopefully they open the interstate tomorrow.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Redbird on Dec 29, 2015, 16:05:13
Corey, watch out for that Canyoncarver guy. He's a little sketchy :o
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: canyoncarver on Dec 29, 2015, 16:12:13
Corey, watch out for that Canyoncarver guy. He's a little sketchy :o

Yeah he is, oh wait, that's me....
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Dec 30, 2015, 00:45:46
Mr. Canyon K Carver is a very good dude. Sketchy....riding a chopper and a KZ yeah that's sketchy. Lol
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: canyoncarver on Dec 30, 2015, 13:09:55
Lol best of both worlds but seriously, you guys are ruining my jerk reputation. 

You gotta see Clem's bike in person, it's a beauty. 
 
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: grandpaul on Jan 02, 2016, 18:16:33
I've gotta say, Clem, that is one FANTASTIC transformation.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE take a photo at the same angle as the original "before" photo, as close to straight side-on as possible, and frame it as close to the edges of the photo as you can without cropping the tires.

No, I'm not going to download it and post it everywhere.

What I'd like to do is download it, and the original "before" photo, then graft them together over/under for a composite photo like this one...

(http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1461/6266009/18640069/329067400.jpg)

I've owned 6 or 7 RDs, mostly 400s, and a '68 YDS3 (the grandaddy of the R bikes); now down to just one 400, and I passed it down to my oldest son. Gotta love em!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Aug 31, 2017, 15:09:09
Well 4 years into this and I'm still changing things. I made a new seat cowl out of an old RD350 tank, Nick aka AdventureCo came up with decals for it. I threw on a set of RD350 cylinders after they were ported, Keihin PWK 28's, digital speedo/tach from Koso and an aluminium front fender from Jadus. I'm pretty stoked at how it sits so far but I'm thinking that a set of Tarozzi rear sets would finish it off. Is a project ever really finished???

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Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Aug 31, 2017, 15:10:50
A few more pics

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Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Maritime on Aug 31, 2017, 15:11:42
Just keeps getting better!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Aug 31, 2017, 15:16:42
Thanks brother, mighty kind of you. I had to update this to give props to a few more people on this site that helped me out. Did I mention that Hurco is a great machinist too?

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Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: JustinLonghorn on Aug 31, 2017, 15:18:55
Damn fine looking scooter, sir.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: johnu on Aug 31, 2017, 15:34:44
Looks sweet Clem!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: canyoncarver on Aug 31, 2017, 15:44:45
Love the new tail, even more that you are still doing cool stuff to your bike.  Looks awesome buddy.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Aug 31, 2017, 17:07:03
That is one of rhe nicest looking RD's that I have seen.

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Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Aug 31, 2017, 17:14:12
Just realized that I put the front fender on backwards. So foolish. Thanks guys. I'll probably make a few more changes before Barber.

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Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Aug 31, 2017, 18:33:18
70% of Hipsters are now putting their front fenders on backwards.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Rider52 on Sep 01, 2017, 00:06:33
Great looking bike! Well done!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: teazer on Sep 01, 2017, 01:03:35
Looks really good.  Nice job.  If you are looking for another cosmetic change might I suggest a set of RD400 oil tank and side cover. I prefer the shape.  That's what is going on our RD350 drag racer - albeit as a onesie.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Maritime on Sep 01, 2017, 08:27:04
This bike had a lot of folks stop to ask about it, I was in the tent for an hour or so and 15 folks must have stopped to ask about it and there was 10 other bikes there.
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Sep 01, 2017, 14:44:45
Teaser is that a direct fit to the DS7 frame? The only 400 that I have is the Daytona and that stuff wouldn't fit without adding new mounting brackets.

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Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: teazer on Sep 01, 2017, 17:56:19
Not sure.  I chopped mine up a little and wrapped them in carbon fiber so I can't even see the original mounts. 

Maybe BradJ or Mike Von Yinzer might know for sure
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Hurco550 on Sep 02, 2017, 01:07:31
Thanks brother, mighty kind of you. I had to update this to give props to a few more people on this site that helped me out. Did I mention that Hurco is a great machinist too?

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Thanks my friend. I absolutely love this machine. When I saw it at barber last year, I felt I was in the presence of greatness! I followed this thread from the beginning, and this is really one of the great ones on the forum imho!

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Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: Redbird on Sep 03, 2017, 01:10:52
This bike truly is gorgeous in person. The pics do it no justice.
And yes, she was definitely the "Belle of the Ball" in the DTT tent last year at Barber. I answered a lot of questions about her as well.
Kinda depressing actually, considering my bike was in the tent too :P
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Sep 03, 2017, 15:54:33
Thanks Chris and Levi. The bike is really just a by product of DTT.  Where do you think I stole the RD400 tank idea from? Lol

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Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: bradj on Sep 09, 2017, 16:17:45
 this thing is soooo fucking rad!!!
Title: Re: 1972 DS7 The Row Boat
Post by: clem on Sep 09, 2017, 22:28:45
this thing is soooo fucking rad!!!
And another great guy who donated to the project. Thanks man.

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