DO THE TON

Blood Sweat Tears and Grease => Projects => Trackers => Topic started by: Joe Suzuki on Oct 17, 2013, 14:53:35

Title: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Oct 17, 2013, 14:53:35
And now for something completely different! Been a lurker for some time on all sorts of sites, but I think this is the place to document what I am about to undertake. I've read through many of your projects and I love the community and ingenuity on display here.  I've got grand plans (and a not so grand budget) so this will be an exercise in planning and patience, with a lot of stuff laying around my garage likely to end up in the build. The plan: take a stock 1983 Suzuki GR650X Tempter and make it into something cool and noteworthy, while being completely reliable and rideable on a daily basis (when weather permits).  My other bike is a 2005 BMW F650GS, so I lean toward the dual sport/ off road end of the riding scale. My commute can take me on some fun off road back alleys to avoid some traffic in the Portland area, so it does really need to perform in those circumstances. I have many, many styling influences which I have been collecting over on my Pinterest page, titled "Everything is Better With Knobbies!".

http://www.pinterest.com/joefr8tus/everything-is-better-with-knobbies/ (http://www.pinterest.com/joefr8tus/everything-is-better-with-knobbies/)

I'm a mechanical engineer by trade and have done many car projects, but this will be my first full-on moto build.  I've been riding for over twenty years, so I figured it was time to try something in the two wheeled realm for my next project. I used to design military vehicles and helicopter equipment, so I tend to skew towards that design aesthetic. So I'll be after a rugged looking military themed build, with lots of black and dark green hues (not a big fan of chrome unless under the right circumstances). But I also plan to add fuel injection to the bike. Whaaaaat? You heard me, fuel injection! I love the simplicity of carbs as much as the next guy, but I love challenges and the reliability associated with EFI, and have done other engine swaps before that take a similar tact. Think of this bike as a retro mod/pro-touring scrambler build, and you start to get where I'm coming from.

So the donor: a 30 year old GR650 that I got for $200 and a rifle. It only has 11,500 miles on it and is a really clean, well running example. Its got the usual Zuki/GR650 issues such as a weak electrical/starting system and a not tall enough sprocket setup.  Its had a PO tank seal job that worked, but looks awful inside the tank.  I've already begun the mods by installing some aluminum dirt bars and fresh rubber grips. I deleted the front turn signals and replaced with some LED's, though they aren't in the permanent location as the headlight mount will change eventually. Other than the EFI, my plans include a wheel swap to a larger rim in the rear (from 16" to 17" KLR) and possibly a smaller one in the front (maybe 19" down to 18" or 17") to get bigger, knobbier tires in place and balance the look of the bike some. I plan to lose weight where I can, so swapping for a Ducati Monster rear shock is in order, as well as a LiIon battery of some sort, though probably a 12 cell (I don't think 8 will cut it with the EFI). I actually like the pseudo-Triumph shape of the tank, but the angle of the tank will have to be addressed. Along with a the tank mods, a complete sub-frame redo to remove the chopper-esque hind quarters is in order, though I'm thinking of making the sub-frame a removable bolt on affair (instead of weld on) since this is a mono-shock bike. A new seat, a new headlight (HID), and new gauges will complete the look. Electrically, a new stator and reg/rect is in order to remedy one of the Achilles heels of this model. I'll also do the regular maintenance items along the way, like seals/bearings,etc.  I also want to have the possibility of some storage since I will commute on it, so some form of removable soft or hard luggage may be attempted, again aided by the mono-shock setup.  I'll add a skid plate and some new side panels to go with the new rear sub frame.  Due to the fuel injection and extensive nature of the changes to the bike, I'll probably end up doing a full re-wire along the way too.  Finally, I'll try my hand at a custom exhaust, complete with O2 sensor for the Microsquirt controlled injection system.  So stay tuned for hopefully frequent updates. Even if I don't have consistent progress, I'll use this space for my brain dumps when things come to me or I'm stumped on something.  So thanks for checking it out.  Looking forward to hearing from everyone as I go.

Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: CutNup on Oct 17, 2013, 15:03:29
im in lets see some progress!!
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Oct 18, 2013, 18:26:11
So this hit my desk today.  All this technology can be had on Ebay for $40!  Its a throttle body from a 2010 Kawasaki Ninja EX650, with injectors!  Looks barely used!  I think its a pretty good candidate for my EFI swap.  Time to take it home and take some measurements.  I'm sure I'll have to come up with some sort of adapter as the carb/throttle body center to center distance is likely different, and the bore diameters are probably different too.  But these are simple mechanical things to overcome.  I'm going to try to use a Ninja throttle and grip assembly as well, but it may be too short.  We'll have to see.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-AyIOVbyyLh4/UmGljLGPeJI/AAAAAAAAADM/FNFRZw_Fsxs/w1024-h576-no/IMG_20131018_140434_226.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-LJUbeb1-iDA/UmGljHUf0RI/AAAAAAAAADE/Z6oHY9Az_9k/w1024-h576-no/IMG_20131018_140412_954.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-KFhb6t2lMhc/UmGljL2ZAKI/AAAAAAAAADI/s4Jbb-DXuCo/w1024-h576-no/IMG_20131018_140355_373.jpg)
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Montag on Oct 21, 2013, 10:11:17
THAT would be cool!
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Cookie on Oct 21, 2013, 13:55:41
Signed up! Welcome Joe. Gotta love a Tempter build, there aren't many of us on here. Give Big Rich a haloo if you need any parts, he's the go-to guy for GR50-specific parts and advice.

Stoked to see how this EFI works out!
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Oct 21, 2013, 15:36:58
Signed up! Welcome Joe. Gotta love a Tempter build, there aren't many of us on here. Give Big Rich a haloo if you need any parts, he's the go-to guy for GR50-specific parts and advice.

Stoked to see how this EFI works out!

Thanks!  I've read through many of Big Rich's posts in prep for this, I know he's a wealth of info on our obscure obsession.  I'm sure I'll be using many of the tricks and tips you guys have sussed out on these bikes along the way.  By the way Cookie, ever find a way to mount an oil cooler to yours?  I'd be interested in that as well.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: bradj on Oct 21, 2013, 16:12:45
Pm big rich he wrote the service manual for the dealerships on the gr
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: VonYinzer on Oct 21, 2013, 16:16:27
It may be a min before BigRich gets back to ya though. I think he's in Japan working w Suzuki on a Tempter resto for their museum.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Cookie on Oct 21, 2013, 16:54:05
  By the way Cookie, ever find a way to mount an oil cooler to yours?  I'd be interested in that as well.

Not yet, sir. The project has been stalled as of late, what with baby stuff, house breakage, kids' hockey...other various excuses.
I wasn't able to find an easily accessible port (best to put a cooler on the return side, as opposed to the pressure side) to run in from, I think it's going to wait either until I have to do a tear down of the engine or I can get my hands on a spare to rebuild for future use. Main goal for now is to get it running again
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Oct 21, 2013, 17:15:51
It may be a min before BigRich gets back to ya though. I think he's in Japan working w Suzuki on a Tempter resto for their museum.
  Nice!  And hilarious!

I found the factory service manual here:
http://www.vanluik.eu/GR%20650%20tempter%20Service%20manual%20(eng)%201983-1984.pdf (http://www.vanluik.eu/GR%20650%20tempter%20Service%20manual%20(eng)%201983-1984.pdf)

I also found the service manual for the Ninja from whence the throttle body came, and the fuel system portion of the manual from the Honda TRX 700 that my fuel pump is going to come from.  Isn't Google wonderful!  Anyway, since I didn't have any real physical progress, at least I can show you some virtual progress.  Here's some of my concept art.  My scanner is down, so I used the camera phone.  I found the only real side view photo of a GR650 that I could (super low res, and mag wheels, which mine doesn't have) with a white background, deleted key things in areas I wanted to change, then filled in the blanks with ideas. 

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-TJ0kku-UX8w/UmWKa97pk0I/AAAAAAAAAE4/jzj3wjO5NBQ/w279-h180-no/Side+View+White+Background.JPG)
I printed out a bunch of these, then I sketch away.  This is the best one so far:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-puwwz6vd7FY/UmWI82tUiCI/AAAAAAAAAEg/wKSPCw1-GPc/w1024-h626-no/GR650+Concept+1+Side+View.jpg)

Of course this is just one concept and there are many subtle things that I can and probably will change, but its a start.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Oct 21, 2013, 17:38:21
Not yet, sir. The project has been stalled as of late, what with baby stuff, house breakage, kids' hockey...other various excuses.
I wasn't able to find an easily accessible port (best to put a cooler on the return side, as opposed to the pressure side) to run in from, I think it's going to wait either until I have to do a tear down of the engine or I can get my hands on a spare to rebuild for future use. Main goal for now is to get it running again
Ok, well something to look at down the road.  I'm not sure how necessary it will be.  With a head temp sensor installed as part of my EFI project, I may be able to display that temp on the dash and determine if it'll be needed when sitting in summer traffic.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Cookie on Oct 22, 2013, 08:06:16
I really dig your concept art sir. nicely done! And that right there is the main reason I could never be an engineer. My drawing abilities are limited to stick figures and puffy Simpsons-type clouds.

I think that scrambler idea needs high pipe(s) though. Check out Pablo83's build, similar ideas are used.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Oct 22, 2013, 11:33:26
You'd be surprised how many engineers can't draw! :o I agree, high pipes are definitely what I want, but I couldn't photo chop out the old ones, so for clarity, I left the low pipes in.  I'll work on that some more maybe, perhaps I can go really old school and use some white out!
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Big Rich on Oct 22, 2013, 12:17:31
Signed up, but I'll be back for more later.

In the meantime, do a Google image search for "GR650 tracker". The first one is a yellow GR with right side high pipes

Great start Joe. .
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Oct 22, 2013, 13:24:03
Thanks Big Rich!  I think I've seen every custom GR out there at this point (since there aren't very many).  I think something like this, only two pipes is the look I'm after.

(http://speedtractor.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/SPEEDTRACTOR_0461_MR2_low-662x425.jpg)

So, here's another one with a bit more photo chop and sketch.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6v7COtJdGas/UmalDX4NQ0I/AAAAAAAAAGE/wrrajzAGdGE/w1024-h664-no/GR650+Concept+2+Side+View.jpg)

I like the look of straight pipes, I think reverse cones aren't where I want to be.  We shall see.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: D4N63R on Dec 19, 2013, 13:07:06
In for EFI updates... Ive done a lot with megasquirt in turbo VW's and have long thought of doing what you are here, throttle bodies from a liter bike into a custom manifold on stand alone.. need dyno access for tuning though, would be kinda tough to tune a bike on the street, without crashing anyway hahaha

I think the worst part of the whole deal would be getting a crank trigger setup and a dang fuel pump modded into a vintage looking tank.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Dec 19, 2013, 14:04:47
Haven't done much on the bike yet, but I have done a ton of planning and purchasing on ebay. I'm using an external fuel pump from a Honda TRX700.  Looks like this:

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-eXNH532d29M/UrMyb3aDOdI/AAAAAAAAAI8/1CyZxn8_Rds/w493-h500-no/TRX700+Fuel+Pump.JPG)

Its about the size of a sour cream container, so I have to find a place for that.  My bike won't exactly have the "see through the middle" look!

So here's what I have acquired so far for the EFI conversion:
Ninja 650 throttle bodies + injectors
Ninja 650 throttle cables (push/pull)
Ninja 650 wire harness
TRX700 fuel pump
New Stator from Electrosport
Solid state Rect/reg from 2007 Yamaha R1 (50 amp)

I've also got two rear wheels from a KLR 250 for a rim conversion to 17" front and back.  Need to get spokes on order from Buchanons and get rims/hubs powdered before I can assemble.

Still need a couple of sensors (head temp sensor, IAT sensor, MAP sensor, Ox Sensor), the Microsquirt, and the intake adapter.  I'll be working on the design of the adapter in the coming weeks.  But I sold by BMW dual sport which freed up some $$$, so more purchases will happen quickly after the holidays.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: D4N63R on Dec 19, 2013, 15:37:49
have you compared that to the size of a good old stock inline pump from a car? pics make it hard to tell but most in line pumps for cars are shorter then a pop can and about half the diameter.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: tort on Dec 19, 2013, 16:06:08
Great project! Not only does it look good according to my taste, it's exciting EFI wise too! A few comments and questions.

1) When using rear rim in the front, check recommended tire width charts for it and see if the recommended tire fits between stock forks. Maybe youve done it but im just sayin... My rear is 2.50 and i think it would never fit to front, 2.10/15 is pretty much max i can do. I could have fitted wider rim if i had wanted to, but since the tyre is even wider than the rim, i couldnt have fitted the right tyre and it would have looked ugly-thin and funny on that wide rim.

Also, it seems like an easy job choosing the tyres but its not  ;D Problem is, different widths, they look different on the rim and you really know only after youve fitted them. Or maybe im the moran here  :D Tyre measurements, the width and height of the wall, make a whole lot of difference about the overall looks and style of the bike, so you must choose wisely, my friend.

2) About battery pack. If size is important, check this (or maybe you have already and its common knowledge in this forum) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTDctiyUa9E  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTDctiyUa9E)I think you can manage with 8 cells but 10 is even better.

3) EFI - id never use it myself but it sure is really exciting technologically. Does it have air flow sensor built in the throttle body already? How smart is this thing? Can you adjust basic settings (2 cyl, ccm etc) and you think it will start and you can customize the maps afterwards?

Cheers!
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: D4N63R on Dec 19, 2013, 16:18:52
im building my own A123 pack as well but I only need a 4cell

with microsquirt you can adjust every setting in the map there are also a ton of base maps to choose from to help you get it running initially.. Its a lot easier then most people think just takes a lot of hours reading hahaha
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: tort on Dec 19, 2013, 16:21:26
im building my own A123 pack as well but I only need a 4cell

with microsquirt you can adjust every setting in the map there are also a ton of base maps to choose from to help you get it running initially.. Its a lot easier then most people think just takes a lot of hours reading hahaha

How come you only need 4?

Adjusting possibilities for all settings may also be a problem. Like dumbusers going Linux  ;D
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: D4N63R on Dec 19, 2013, 16:25:16
small motor, easy to turn. but you better hope it starts in the first 2-3 tries hahaha...  i was bit unsure as well but ballistic recommends a 4 cell for my bike so that what im making :)

and you are right all those variables can get a person in trouble! once initial setup is done and everything is configured for your fuel/ign system though its pretty smooth sailing. not sure if micro squit has the same auto tune feature as mega squirt but if it does that handles all your cruising and part throttle for you. Then you just tune wide open on your own. getting the fuel map dialed in is actually pretty easy. All the power and work comes from the ignition side, thats when you want a dyno.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: tort on Dec 19, 2013, 16:43:23
small motor, easy to turn. but you better hope it starts in the first 2-3 tries hahaha...  i was bit unsure as well but ballistic recommends a 4 cell for my bike so that what im making :)

Well excactly, it must start at once in that case. But if youre running lights and live in colder climate (like me), id still go with more. What if you need to start several times in a short period of time, even if it starts at once?
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: D4N63R on Dec 19, 2013, 16:51:07
i live in a cold climate as well.. I know all the sport bikes im surrounded by have a 6 cell so i would think the 4 is going to be fine. i have a regular low draw sealed beam headlight then led everything else so there isnt a lot of draw from the system
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Dec 19, 2013, 17:53:07
Battery:
I would like a 6 or 8 cell LiIon battery, just because I like piece of mind and I will have more current draw to run the electronics than the average custom bike.  An 8 cell is still light years lighter than an AGM or lead acid, so that's all good.

Fuel Pump:
As far as a fuel pump goes, regular inline auto fuel injection pumps pull WAY too much current for a bike, and they flow too much volume as well.  Then you still need a pressure regulator and a return feed from that, and a filter, which the Honda unit has all built in to one (relatively) compact package.  So its a simple low current draw solution, that happens to be pretty cheap too.  You can get new ones for $100, and much less for a used one on ebay (I paid $47 shipped!).

Tuning:
For starters, I'll just be controlling fuel, no spark, so it simplifies the initial tuning procedures.  I'm still debating narrow or wideband O2, but I've seen cheap wideband controllers like this that might change my mind:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/APSX-D1-Digital-Wideband-WBO-Controller-Enclosure-/181273702156?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item2a34c12f0c (http://www.ebay.com/itm/APSX-D1-Digital-Wideband-WBO-Controller-Enclosure-/181273702156?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item2a34c12f0c)
Tuning with the Microquirt is relatively simple with a laptop, but yes, lots of reading.  You data log by going for a ride, then tweak, rinse, repeat.  But the great thing is you can change parameters whenever you want, no dis-assembly required.  And upgrades down the road like a GM LS1 style ignition is a relatively simple software tweak.

Rims & Tires:
I've got quite a bit of room for a tire in the front.  I think I can fit a 4.60-17, but I will be measuring twice, ordering once (hopefully). I have some test tires on the rims to mock up. My original fender will be coming off for a custom solution, so all I have to clear are the fork tubes.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: D4N63R on Dec 19, 2013, 18:10:32
narrow bands are horrible, not to mention you need the wide band sensor for proper data logging anyway. I didnt think of all the extra garbage that would have to go along with the fuel pump. all of a sudden the quad pump makes way more sense.

If you are only tuning the fuel you'll have no trouble at all :)

as for which wide band to use. I'll go with AEM for as long as I ever need to use one. sub $200 and they come with a bosch sensor, are super easy to read and can actually data log on their own if need be. I realize they are a bit more then then the option you linked plus a sensor but they just dont break or fail. you buy one and use it forever haha
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Dec 19, 2013, 18:15:59
Yeah, I really want to go wideband.  I know some guys that work for AEM down in CA.  I'll have to see what kind of "friend" price I can get on one. 
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Jan 16, 2014, 12:45:37
Sold the Beemer GS, so I have some project money now!  Making some minor progress, mostly in parts accumulation.  But did a test fit on the front rim/tire combo.  I got a couple of KLR rear wheels with tire to check fit.  4.60-17 looks like it will fit just fine.  I could probably go 5.10-17 and still have room, though on a 2.5" rim, might be pushing it a little.

Before:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-VgPO7x8BCBc/UtgJDLPuYgI/AAAAAAAAALw/EJuxymb5elk/w1556-h875-no/IMG_20130916_185141_575.jpg)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-qn716Og0DB8/UtgJDJY4FxI/AAAAAAAAALw/ZAKosbvbxMk/w492-h875-no/IMG_20130916_185608_119.jpg)

Test Fit:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-nFxs4C-Zm2c/UtgHl3-6RrI/AAAAAAAAALQ/bEsyCX0ruJE/w1556-h875-no/IMG_20140116_065926_366.jpg)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-p4DQ6sVEnr8/UtgHl9KZYEI/AAAAAAAAALQ/ndxYCU_997I/w1556-h875-no/IMG_20140116_065937_771.jpg)

Plenty of clearance. Need to order some spokes now!
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6Axjcv1tTkI/UtgHl-6dENI/AAAAAAAAALQ/Hjhz4K0L9eY/w492-h875-no/IMG_20140116_065909_904.jpg)

Got some fork gaiters from Speedmotoco in Eugene, and I have a new tank, (maybe 2) on the way to test fit.  Here's one:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-fYik1PfEkrg/UtgMFI3praI/AAAAAAAAAMM/ATeDt8lnBhY/w500-h380-no/GS750E+Tank.jpg)
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: animalrobot on Jan 16, 2014, 18:42:43
i live in a cold climate as well.. I know all the sport bikes im surrounded by have a 6 cell so i would think the 4 is going to be fine. i have a regular low draw sealed beam headlight then led everything else so there isnt a lot of draw from the system

Hey D4N63R, I am stoked to hear your experience with one of these DIY batteries. I want to build one for my GPz project, but I was concerned about the low temperatures in Vancouver, BC. When do you plan on making and trying this battery out?
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: animalrobot on Jan 16, 2014, 18:43:50

Got some fork gaiters from Speedmotoco in Eugene, and I have a new tank, (maybe 2) on the way to test fit.  Here's one:


That tank is a real beauty. It's going to look awesome.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: D4N63R on Jan 16, 2014, 18:53:06
Hey D4N63R, I am stoked to hear your experience with one of these DIY batteries. I want to build one for my GPz project, but I was concerned about the low temperatures in Vancouver, BC. When do you plan on making and trying this battery out?

whenever my cells show up hahaha...  you cant air mail them anymore so they are coming from hong kong on a boat.. going to be awhile.

ebay has bulk packs of them but hobbyking is the only place I could find that would just sell me 4
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Jan 16, 2014, 19:42:51
I'm curious too how those work on a moto charging system without a battery management system (BMS).  Most lithium batteries need this to balance the cells.  It might work initially, but if the cells get out of balance, essentially it will take the whole pack down.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Jan 16, 2014, 19:48:16
Thanks animalrobot.  I'm on the fence about the tank.  I'm not sure what's going to look right.  I was originally going to go with the stock tank, but its got some problems, including a bad Kreem job that I would have to deal with.  We'll see what it looks like when it arrives in a couple of weeks...
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: D4N63R on Jan 17, 2014, 14:01:25
I have a balance charger anyway, part of being an R/C nut. So can balance the pack once a week.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: animalrobot on Jan 17, 2014, 15:09:06
whenever my cells show up hahaha...  you cant air mail them anymore so they are coming from hong kong on a boat.. going to be awhile.

ebay has bulk packs of them but hobbyking is the only place I could find that would just sell me 4

Check out DX.com if you like free shipping and don't mind waiting a decade for your items to arrive.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Jan 17, 2014, 19:08:01
Been refining my ideas and I did some more noodling in Gimp, a free Photoshop-like program.  This is a composite with my new tank, preferred color scheme, and some hand drawings, gone over digitally.  Still uncertain about high vs. low exhaust...

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-QHJmYbkPqOs/Utm26xAU9AI/AAAAAAAAANI/liDyGP-G96w/w1132-h875-no/Strangler+1-17-2014+Sketch.jpg)
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Jan 29, 2014, 13:37:35
Did some tear down and mockup of my new to me tank.  I think I like it...?  I need to hack the rear subframe off to get a better clean view.  Crappy cell phone images away!

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-it24-xD8mC4/Uuk01g8qGII/AAAAAAAAAPM/gcbba5ih1t8/w1556-h875-no/IMG_20140127_200447_916.jpg)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-RHYkcwVh3B0/Uuk011v3eKI/AAAAAAAAAPM/slpmFRwnia4/w1556-h875-no/IMG_20140127_200613_934.jpg)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-g3iD8qPxuWg/Uuk01CX1ehI/AAAAAAAAAPM/3-kcHrijgmM/w1556-h875-no/IMG_20140127_200518_125.jpg)

Been doing some Solidworks noodling too.  This block of aluminum:

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-8bMg7uLO_G4/Uuk4UAG_BcI/AAAAAAAAAPs/WAFScrxNX7w/w1556-h875-no/IMG_20140129_091611_166.jpg)

will soon give way to this:

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kILgIz-4t2Q/Uuk7gq2tthI/AAAAAAAAAQM/8KK7yr-zhJU/w781-h875-no/Throttle+Body+Adapter+1.JPG)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-jjKQ-GtapH4/Uuk7gasNm9I/AAAAAAAAAQQ/QZ-7TacLoho/w781-h875-no/Throttle+Body+Adapter+2.JPG)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-LUq7k5TbMIA/Uuk7gf_SB-I/AAAAAAAAAQI/rSxruHVufqc/w781-h875-no/Throttle+Body+Adapter+3+Cutaway.JPG)

Should have it machined by next week.  If everything fits, I might anodize it black to cut down on the shiny stuff.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: D4N63R on Jan 29, 2014, 13:45:59
the new intake for the ITBs?
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Jan 29, 2014, 14:19:23
Its the intake adapter between my Ninja EX650 throttle body and the intake boots on the head.

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-KFhb6t2lMhc/UmGljL2ZAKI/AAAAAAAAADI/s4Jbb-DXuCo/w1024-h576-no/IMG_20131018_140355_373.jpg)
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: animalrobot on Jan 29, 2014, 19:38:27
Ah, that's so cool. Being able to model your own parts is the dream! I need to move beyond Photoshop and into 3D :)

I have to say, I really like the tank, but it looks too long for the frame in the mockup images you showed. I'm sure you can compensate for that with the seat, somehow. But, as it stands, I would consider something a little shorter.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Jan 29, 2014, 20:01:49
Yeah, I'm not sure about the tank.  I have a few options.  1.)  Live with it and make it work. 2.) Modify it by hack and weld 3.) Use stock tank with some minor mods to make it look better (raise the rear). 4.) Find another tank.  The problem with 4 is that the Tempter frame and tank tunnel is really wide, so any small tanks or non Suzuki family tanks will either require tunnel mods or frame surgery.  So I may be on the lookout for something more suitable... maybe...
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Big Rich on Jan 31, 2014, 02:27:37
With the front mounts shaved to make them more narrow, a tank from a GS450 or certain GS850's fit. Later 850 tanks need some pretty major Fab work to fit in comparison.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Jan 31, 2014, 14:16:00
Yeah, I don't really like the shape of the GS450 tank for this build.  Its got the wrong profile.  I thought of another option, which is fab a tank completely from scratch.  I'm considering it.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: iGreek on Jan 31, 2014, 18:19:28
I have to agree that the tank looks a bit too long, but I like the shape of it. Do you think you can modify it and shorten it, or is that going to be to much work? You could possibly build the seat a bit different to compensate, but I like the overall shape of it on the frame.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Jan 31, 2014, 23:31:09
It might be possible to shorten it, but I don't have an English wheel to make the necessary in between panels once you section and shorten.  I have another tank, one from a GS850 that I could try with first.  If I don't like the results, I can sell the 550 tank and not destroy it and go to plan B.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Kg_Customs on Feb 01, 2014, 10:04:29
This looks great, I love efi swaps!

When you build your battery add and over/under charge protection circuit to it. Those liopop4 battery's are voltage sensitive and kick the bucket if voltage drops under 7-8 volts. Do your rc cars have them in it, if so I bet they're tiny and it would be nice to use one of that size.

If your tight on space you could section the under side of your tank to house the fuel pump and maybe some other goodies.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: john83 on Feb 01, 2014, 14:59:52
Pretty cool.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Feb 01, 2014, 15:30:51
Fuel pump is external, the one from a honda trx700 quad. I'll take some pictures and show you. I dont think I'm gonna build my own battery.  By the time I do a proper battery build with a bms, I might as well just buy one.

I think I might have another tank possibility.   Im looking at some options.  I'll update when I know more.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Feb 06, 2014, 12:33:03
Ok, I'm super stoked about this tank.  Much better, not so long, and its got a really cool cap!  Absolutely no mods needed to fit it to the tunnel either, even the front rubber mounts are perfect!  Plus it was only $40 on Craigslist in PDX!  Can any of you astute tankophiles identify it?  Check it out.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Ie4tFozESl0/UvO3CyJbz6I/AAAAAAAAARw/vcyaPq4SzNk/w1556-h875-no/IMG_20140205_192814_296.jpg)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-NMXqIweSLyA/UvO3FhcFyHI/AAAAAAAAARw/ZL1xlUzsplg/w492-h875-no/IMG_20140205_192901_122.jpg)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8vrPt4am3Io/UvO3CzD9W9I/AAAAAAAAARw/NjzU0ZccxUw/w1556-h875-no/IMG_20140205_192800_360.jpg)

So Looks like I'll sell the original GR650 tank and the GS750 and GS850 tanks I have on fleabay, maybe they can help offset some of the project costs.  I need a new camera...
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Big Rich on Feb 06, 2014, 23:58:39
Perhaps a T350 or GT550, etc? Look around on Suzukicycles.org and I'll bet you find it in no time.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Feb 07, 2014, 00:27:49
This was a test.  Its a GT380 tank.  I was amazed how well it fit.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Sep 04, 2014, 16:47:33
OK, WAAAAAY overdue for an update.  Lots of excuses you don't care about.  Big Rich shamed me into it!

Been working behind the scenes on many aspects of the bike and ordering a BUNCH of parts.  I don't have the greatest pictures of all the ongoing work, but I'll put up what I have done recently. So here goes...

Wheels got dismembered, powder coated a textured black, new All Balls bearings installed, then sent to Buchanan's for custom stainless spokes.  I'll get some pictures up soon.  But here are the tires that will be going on:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-F-0oEMzdhTA/VAi5F-7jQCI/AAAAAAAAAcU/8RTOckxIBlI/w1167-h875-no/New%2BShoes.jpg)

Built a headlight mounting bracket and test fit new headlight.  Got new x-ring chain and sprockets, -1 in back, +1 in front.  Got All Balls steering bearings.  Got parts for Rect/Reg swap, Shindengen FH012 from an R1 or something.  Got new Electrosport Stator.  Got new glasspack mufflers on order.

But mostly been working on the seat and rear subframe.  I had an old 1983 PGO Scootor (Thai clone of a Honda) that had a seat that was almost right for what i was looking for.  I cut the pan down, cut the front short, and reshaped the foam a little, then sent it off to Lauren at New Church to lay some kick-ass textured vinyl onto.  I'll save that for a reveal a little later.  Then I got to working on the subframe.  I bent up new bars to match the seat and added a rear hoop.  Don't pay too much attention to the extra long tubes, they will get cut short close to the hoop.  Next are the down tubes, hopefully by the end of the weekend.

Frame Mods
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-8Zio9e12fPo/VAi5JAcbWTI/AAAAAAAAAcU/12rzItxuERw/w1167-h875-no/Subframe%2Bmods.jpg)

Subframe and Tank
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-HlZiNX6DRZ8/VAi5IXDV5GI/AAAAAAAAAcU/iPn1AiZLBRw/w1167-h875-no/Subframe%2Band%2BTank%2B1.jpg)

Subframe, Tank & Seat
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-szxTI1wjpqw/VAi5LKV4PLI/AAAAAAAAAcU/pXPUFBFT1NU/w1167-h875-no/Tank%2Band%2BSeat%2Bon%2BSubframe%2B2.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-uGVDgJNGI5Y/VAi5J78GXMI/AAAAAAAAAcU/Anqb4buUr2c/w1167-h875-no/Tank%2B%26%2BSeat%2Bon%2BSubframe.jpg)

Ducati Monster Shock Swap soon...
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-g4JXaoNfC9k/VAi5H54W7hI/AAAAAAAAAcU/cQNlq9FWye8/w1167-h875-no/Stock%2BShock%2Bvs%2BDucati%2BMounster.jpg)

As for the EFI update, I've decided (i.e. ran out of money) to make that a Phase 2 of the project once the bike is complete.  That will be a good winter project.  So for now, it'll get K&N oval tapered pods and a re-jet.  When I redo the electrical, I'll try to keep the EFI in mind and plan accordingly.  More updates to come.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Big Rich on Sep 04, 2014, 21:16:48
Looking pretty darn good, Joe!

What are you going with as far as carbs go? I would assume stock since you'll be swapping to EFI later on.....

And can you do me a favor? If you pull the spring off the Ducati shock, can you check the wheel travel? I looked recently and saw that a Monster has something like 2" more suspension travel than the GR, and I'm hoping it's not because of the shock itself.....
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Sep 05, 2014, 00:40:55
Thanks Big Rich!  Just the stock carbs with a 6 Sigma rejet.  You had stock carbs before going to the VM's.  Did you rejet?  Why the VM's?  I'll check the travel once I get one of the missing hat-bushings for the top of the shock eye.  Ebay seller neglected to mention it missing, and I'm having a hell of a time getting one.  I suspect the GR travel is limited by its geometry.  But if the shock itself has more travel before it bottoms, then the swingarm should travel further too.  We'll see...
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Big Rich on Sep 05, 2014, 01:23:24
I actually found a really good deal on a used set of VM carbs and liked how they ran. After I had them for a little while, I bought a new set of carbs to replace the used ones. When I was running stock carbs I was in the process of jetting them for pod filters when the opportunity to upgrade came along......

I appreciate you checking if you're able to. If you can't for whatever reason, I'll do it myself just to be certain.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Sep 09, 2014, 12:12:39
So after disassembling both the stock GR shock and the Ducati shock, I have some minor issues to deal with.  The Ducati shock has about 1/2" less shock travel than the Suzuki one.  Not good.  Especially for a tracker/scrambler type built, I do not want to limit my travel at all.  I haven't yet measured to see what this means for overall travel on the bike, but if anything, I need more, not less!  So put the original back in?  Well the foam bump-stop was disintegrated upon dis-assembly.  So I could rig up some sort of slip over the shaft bump stop, run without, or shitcan the whole suspension setup and design some new geometry/mounts, etc.  Frustrating  >:(
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: adtree on Sep 14, 2015, 23:24:45
sorry to drag up an old thread... but that mockup looks tops... building a gr650 myself... and have been for the past 10 years on and off.
Hows this one tracking?

I ended up with a monster shock after combing a wreckers for hours aswell. Its sat on the shelf for years without attention - you get yours to work?
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Sep 21, 2015, 09:24:49
Been on the back burner for a bit since I moved from the Northwest to San Antonio, TX into a garage with no welder or compressor outlet!  I'm working to rectify that situation shortly.  My pics are a bit behind my actual progress as well.  Frame is nearly complete, just need some seat mounting points and some fender mount tabs, but again, welder...  Turns out my monster shock was missing one of the hat bushings at the top eye, which was not communicated to me by the ebay seller.  That would be fine if I had a Monster, just swap it out, but I don't, so I'll have to machine a replacement.  Still not sure if its going to give me the height I want though, so the jury is still out.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: redwillissuperman on Oct 10, 2015, 21:31:51
Do you have an outlet for a dryer? Weld in the laundry room or use the dryer vent outlet to snake the cord into the house and plug it in. I wonder how I know....
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Oct 12, 2015, 11:06:54
Nice! I'm sure you followed the proper Universal Building Code guidelines...  ;)
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: redwillissuperman on Oct 12, 2015, 13:53:03
Running the cord into the house from outside should make even the most fascist home owner association happy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: xanderUK on Sep 19, 2016, 02:18:17
How did the shock work out for this in the end?  I am thinking of doing a similar swap but keen to know if you came up with a solution for longer travel?
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Sep 19, 2016, 09:21:29
The saga continues.  Life's been challenging since the move, meaning there hasn't been much time for the project.  I haven't fit the shock yet as I need to custom machine a hat spacer to make it work.  With my new job, I have lathe access, so I should be able to do that.  In fact I need to get my ass in gear and get the project done now that I have welder power and my garage is sorted.  I'll see if I can't post some update photos tonight.  This might be just the motivation I need...
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Cookie on Sep 19, 2016, 09:25:23
Eagerly anticipating your updates, Joe! My Tempter has been languishing for 3 years now (since my daughter was born) and I, too need a kick in the pants to get it done!
Of course, it doesn't help that I've acquired to cb750's (a '79f and a '81c) from my father-in-law that both run...
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Sep 19, 2016, 18:06:54
Ha!  My 1st bike was a '78 CB750F SS!  Still wish I had that one...
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: NoRiders on Sep 20, 2016, 05:31:15
I'm in....love to see this finished.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Sep 21, 2016, 12:45:26
Here's a few shots of the bike as it stands.  The strategy now is to get it complete and running before tackling phase 2, fuel injection.

(https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2tz4zMrJXQVRTZSMXJSR0cxQ2c/view?usp=sharing)

(https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2tz4zMrJXQVNExuckNBLUQtMUU/view?usp=sharing)

(https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2tz4zMrJXQVZUs3VUhyeEM2WlU/view?usp=sharing)

There are many things left to do, just off the top of my head:

Trim back tubes on frame hoop
Make seat mounting brackets
Make muffler mounting brackets
Paint and wrap exhaust
Clean and rejet carbs
Mount rear fender
Install new stator
Rewire entire bike
Mount front plate
Mount front fender
Paint forks, side covers, and valve covers
Deal with oil leak at cylinder base
Install new sprockets and chain
Install new brake pads
Clean and paint tank
Install rebuilt petcock

I'm sure I'm missing something, but those are the biggies.  I'd better get moving!

Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Sep 21, 2016, 12:47:14
Hey, what gives?  Where are my pictures?  What's the leading theory on picture insertion in the forum these days?
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Cookie on Sep 21, 2016, 12:58:25
I was able to make it happen earlier this morning...took me a few tries though, and I ended up posting a bunch of doubles.
I used the old, irritating-to-others method of just tacking them to the post as attachments (as opposed to linking via a photo-sharing app: I've never had luck making Photobucket work with my phone).
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Sep 21, 2016, 14:09:24
Let's try this:

(http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/ah186/JoeFr8tus/GR650%20Project%201_zpsv7pmhsk8.jpg) (http://s1380.photobucket.com/user/JoeFr8tus/media/GR650%20Project%201_zpsv7pmhsk8.jpg.html)

(http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/ah186/JoeFr8tus/GR650%20Project%203_zpsr13k8vlj.jpg) (http://s1380.photobucket.com/user/JoeFr8tus/media/GR650%20Project%203_zpsr13k8vlj.jpg.html)

(http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/ah186/JoeFr8tus/GR650%20Project%202_zpsgvefd6yh.jpg) (http://s1380.photobucket.com/user/JoeFr8tus/media/GR650%20Project%202_zpsgvefd6yh.jpg.html)

Apologies for all of the crap in the foreground.  Anyway, you can see the 17's front and back with a textured powder coat.  You can also see the front light mounted, but the seat is in a box.

Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Kolby198 on Jun 28, 2017, 21:14:54
Hey! Wondering if this thread is still alive. i love what your doing, ive got a gr of my own that im trying to resurrect right now. I was wondering if you know anything about using pod filters?
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Cookie on Jun 28, 2017, 23:38:18
Hey! Wondering if this thread is still alive. i love what your doing, ive got a gr of my own that im trying to resurrect right now. I was wondering if you know anything about using pod filters?

Hey there and welcome to DTT!

Generally speaking, the CV carbs on Tempters, DOHC CB's etc. Don't really get along well with pods. A few folks on here have had luck switching to round-slide or flat-slide direct pull carbs but putting pods on CV's will result in driveability concerns and infinite tuning headaches.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Joe Suzuki on Jul 18, 2017, 14:54:14
Still working on it, haven't made much progress as of late.  I had planned on using pods with long runners to try to smooth out the airflow some, along with a rejet.  But it remains to be seen if this will work out well.  My original plan was to fuel inject, but I want to finish the build and get it running again before going that far.  If the carbs end up being a nightmare, I may punt and do the injection (it's a different nightmare I guess...).
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Chris9178 on Jul 26, 2017, 23:10:22
Hey everyone, I'm new to DTT and I also have just purchased an 84 tempter!!  This is my first bike and so far I love the look of it.  There is few problems that need to be fixed for safety.  1. fork seals 2. chain needs to be tightened (may need new sprockets and chain,it looks like the adjuster on swing arm is almost as far as it can go 2 notches left ) 3. Need turn signals in front and replace the rear broken ones (which I've replaced all 4 but now can't figure out the wiring from 3 wire to 2 wire in the rear) I would love to be able to transform this bike to make it look as close to naked as I can.  I live in a small town called Midland about 1.5hrs north of Toronto incase anyone is wondering.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Cookie on Jul 26, 2017, 23:32:52
I know where Midland is! Welcome to DTT Chris, from Kitchener (about an hour west of Toronto).

Swing on over to the Introduction section and introduce yourself.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Chris9178 on Sep 10, 2017, 22:34:38
Well been riding the bike to work and saving some money on gas.  But my carbs are a little screwed I need a good reccomendation for a carb kit including a needle jet for this here bike.  I seen one called 6sigma but it doesn't come with a needle jet and I can't seem to find that part anywhere.  Anybody have any ideas?

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: SuZacki on Jul 28, 2018, 04:08:24
Hoping to revive this thread. I'm loving this project and want to see if it's still going. I have a GR650 and plan on doing a similar build to it. I'm new to DTT, so I'll jump over to the intro section, but this thread is what made me register.
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: SuZacki on Aug 01, 2018, 00:22:50
Anybody...know...anything...whatsoever...about this? Seems pretty slow around here...
Title: Re: Suzuki GR650 Scrambler/Tracker - The Strangler!
Post by: Brodie on Aug 01, 2018, 03:06:41
You are asking on a thread that has not been updated by the OP for nearly 2 years...