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REGIONAL info on Meet-up, Burn-outs & other events => DTT SkyTeam Ace => Topic started by: stroker crazy on Jan 02, 2014, 06:24:59

Title: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Jan 02, 2014, 06:24:59
Remove seat and petrol tank to allow clear access:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917034641.jpeg)

Remove carburettor and intake, spark plug, exhaust, horn and bracket:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917003633.jpeg)

Remove head steady bracket, the two bolts holding the front engine mounting bracket to downtube, top rear mounting bolt, and loosen bottom rear mounting bolt:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917004749.jpeg)

Remove tappet cover:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917005029.jpeg)

Remove rocker assembly; when lifting pushrods, make a note of which is intake and which exhaust:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917034225.jpeg)

Remove the four head bolts, not forgetting the cam locating bolt on LHS of motor:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917005557.jpeg)

Lift head clear, keeping a look out for the dowels between head and cylinder:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917010019.jpeg)

Undo cylinder location screws on LHS of motor:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917011018.jpeg)

Lift cylinder, taking care to stuff crankcase openings as soon as possible

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917011552.jpeg)

Pry out circlip from one end of gudgeon pin and push pin through the piston from the opposite side. (do not re-use circlips!)

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917012520.jpeg)

Install new piston noting marked inlet side (lightly oil gudgeon pin to install),
make sure circlip gaps are to top or bottom rotate rings so that the gaps are 60 degrees apart:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917012718.jpeg)

Swap cam followers from original cylinder (be careful not to lose the wave washer) to the new cylinder:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917013350.jpeg)

Dowels in place in head:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917013915.jpeg)

Install 8mm/6mm exhaust studs:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917014345.jpeg)

Smear a very light coat of silcon sealant on cylinder mating surface, if you are not using a base gasket:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917014703.jpeg)

After cleaning any gasket remains from crankcase and replacing dowels, lightly oil the cylinder and carefully slide into place over the piston (remove the stuffing when the rings are inside the cylinder):

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917014941.jpeg)

Position head gasket and top dowels:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917034037.jpeg)

Bolt head in place (20–22lbf. or 28–30n/m) and replace cam locating bolt (13–16.5 lbf.). Be very careful when replacing the pushrods – angle them toward the outside corner and rock the cam using the kick-start lever to ensure contact. If not positioned correctly they will drop into the motor, necessitating the removal of the head and cylinder in order to retrieve them:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917005317.jpeg)

Replace rocker assembly:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917034423.jpeg)

Replace engine mounting bolts (8mm 22.5–27.5 n/m)

Adjust valve clearances – intake 0.1mm (0.004˝), exhaust 0.15mm (0.006˝). For correct TDC inlet valve should be closing as piston rises.

Replace tappet cover, refit head steady, carby, spark plug, horn, tank, etc.

Before starting, remove oil bleed screw from rocker cover. Start motor; when oil bleeds from from vent, replace screw.
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: mikeyw64 on Jan 02, 2014, 06:38:31
a nice concise write up Sir  8)

One question

Quote
Adjust valve clearances – intake 0.1mm (0.004˝), exhaust 0.15mm (0.006˝).

Were they the settings recommended with the kit as aren't the standard settings 0.005 inlet & exhaust?

Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Jan 02, 2014, 06:42:31
They're the Lifan recommendation Mikey.

Crazy
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: WJPez on Jan 02, 2014, 07:18:24
Did you need to use a piston ring compressor or does the bore slot over the piston easily? Dis you get the kit from OORacing?

Wayne
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Jan 02, 2014, 07:34:45
No, you don't need a ring compressor and yes, it's the OORacing kit.

Crazy
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: orrible-64 on Jan 02, 2014, 09:04:57
nice walk through..thanks for going to the effort..was going to photograph when i did mine  but got carried away doing job and didn't take any.

it is not too hard a job ..even for the unexperienced. take your time and follow this excellent guide.
only advice that was given on an earlier entry in main page was to put a long screwdriver through gudgeon pin so you do not loose circlips(used to call them "jesus clips" cause that is what you yell out when it flies off to unknown part of shed).
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: orrible-64 on Jan 02, 2014, 09:14:22
don't forget to crack the oil bleed bolt on rocker cover and do up when oil bleeds out from hole...this will insure you get proper lube to rockers
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: HerbertD on Jan 02, 2014, 10:09:39
Thanks Crazy,

Excellent write up and looking to do the 150cc upgrade very shortly myself. At this rate, we will be running out of  mods to improve things further!
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: mikeyw64 on Jan 02, 2014, 11:31:22
nice walk through..thanks for going to the effort..was going to photograph when i did mine  but got carried away doing job and didn't take any.

it is not too hard a job ..even for the unexperienced. take your time and follow this excellent guide.
only advice that was given on an earlier entry in main page was to put a long screwdriver through gudgeon pin so you do not loose circlips(used to call them "jesus clips" cause that is what you yell out when it flies off to unknown part of shed).

Crazy mentioned not to reuse the circlips from the gudgeon pin. Are new ones included in the kit?

Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Jan 02, 2014, 14:59:14
Are new ones included in the kit?

Yes!

Crazy
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: ACEitup on Jan 02, 2014, 17:00:00
Thxs Crazy,
great walk thru,
this will be a great help when i do mine later this Year,
Thou I am sure I will be sending u Questions then!
Looking forward to seeing how much performance you get out of her?
cheers ACEitup
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Jan 02, 2014, 17:12:43
Looking forward to seeing how much performance you get out of her?

I'm mightily impressed with the improvement, even though it's only been a bit over 120k!

Crazy
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: ChrisBNE on Jan 02, 2014, 18:08:04
Although much of this information will be redundant for some ‘Ace’ owners, I decided to document my installation of the Lifan 150cc big-bore kit in case owners new to motorcycles might find something useful.

Thank you Tom for putting this together - a massive contribution and support for those who may not have felt comfortable to complete this modification.  We're all the richer for you sharing your experence!
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: sprocket2cog on Jan 03, 2014, 03:04:01
cool write up crazy.
one question, how does the pin/bolt come out for the cam followers ?
is it just a screw in thread ?
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Jan 03, 2014, 03:26:59
one question …?

It's easiest to push it out from the inside - the slot is to tell when you have it vertical so you can insert the long bolt from the head.

Crazy
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: sprocket2cog on Jan 03, 2014, 03:34:50
It's easiest to push it out from the inside - the slot is to tell when you have it vertical so you can insert the long bolt from the head.

Crazy

ok cool, i got it now,i didnt realise it was held in place by that bolt, i can see it all now, thanks mate
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: mikeyw64 on Jan 03, 2014, 04:03:01
It's easiest to push it out from the inside - the slot is to tell when you have it vertical so you can insert the long bolt from the head.

Crazy

Bit like an Ikea kit ;o)
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Alton on Feb 20, 2014, 23:03:19
hello im new here im in the middle of doing the topend in a lifan cg200 now just waiting on my parts . i was wondering if anyone new how to tell the top ring from the second ring i have herd the second ring is thicker and a beval to catch the oil and bring it down is there writing on the top of these rings ?
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Alton on Feb 20, 2014, 23:13:45
ill post pictures of my rebuild as soon as i know for sure what ring is what ? but these cg 125 engines and cg 200 engine are almost the same just one is bigger that the other.
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Feb 22, 2014, 22:56:53
what ring is what ?

My Lifan 150cc kit had the rings already installed when I received it, so I didn't take much notice of the rings.

Just checked the original 'Ace' 125 rings - they are the same thickness and without any bevel or markings.

Crazy
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Sunrise4567 on Feb 28, 2014, 17:45:40
Hi, great post on the install.  I have just completed this myself and the only problem I have encountered is an increase in tappet noise.  I have checked and re adjusted the valve clearance several times to the specs supplied of 004" and 006" and then even tried reducing the clearance to the original settings, but it just slightly reduced the noise of quite a noticable loud ticking coming from the valve gear.  I was wondering if you had this problem or you could suggest a area to look at?  Any information would be greatly appreciated.   
Kind regards.   Cameron   :)
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Feb 28, 2014, 18:07:39
Is it much louder than before the conversion?

If you have the correct clearances I can't see where there could be a problem.

Crazy
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: orrible-64 on Mar 02, 2014, 07:31:43
i have the same problem...still trying to track down the ticking noise...bike runs fine, gaps are correct.. I am going to pull the motor down after i return from speed week at lake gairdner. noise sounds like tappet noise but i am unsure...but runs ok...quiet when cold but ticks when hot
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: sprocket2cog on Mar 02, 2014, 07:40:45
being a pushrod motor without  roller rockers etc , its always going to make some tappet noise, and as it gets hot it gets louder, its normal to hear it
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: orrible-64 on Mar 02, 2014, 10:55:13
I am not concerned that the motor will eat itself, just noisier than with original pot and piston.  strange seeing how it is all the same rocker gear pushrods and cam...might be the steel in the new valves expand at a different rate?..
anyway don't panic about the ticking. i am not...just puzzled to why it is louder...my valve stem clearance  has been set back to standard, not recommended gap by oo racing.  i have refitted base gasket to cylinder not left it out as recomended as well.
motor runs fine . top speed of 115 kph  with 17/38 gearing(maybe more but didn't push my luck).
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Sunrise4567 on Mar 02, 2014, 17:39:05
Hi again.  I have been re reading through your guide to the install of the kit, and I think I may have picked up a problem when I put it back together that is causing my louder than usual valve gear noise.  When I looked at your photos of removing cam followers and being carefull not to loose thrust washer it got me thinking that when I put the followers back through the locating pin I put the thrust washer between the two followers!!! Is this incorrect? Should it be placed at the end of the pin towards the centre of the motor?

Thanks again in advance for your input.  As a recent sign on to this site I have been blown away with all the great info and passion for these bikes.  Keep up the great work, it makes great reading and is inspirational.

Kind regards  Cameron
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Bojer on Mar 02, 2014, 18:15:13
when I put the followers back through the locating pin I put the thrust washer between the two followers!!! Is this incorrect? Should it be placed at the end of the pin towards the centre of the motor?

That's how its shown on the Skyteam drawing motor - on the end that is  ;)
http://www.skyteamparts.com/store/e-2-cylinder-head-air-inlet-exhaust-system-valve-cylinder-body/
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 02, 2014, 18:19:24
Is this incorrect?

The washer does fit toward the centre.

It sits in a recess in the casting and can be seen in this photo:

Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Bojer on Mar 02, 2014, 18:45:07
Is that a wavey washer so there is no end to end play on the cam followers once installed ? - so the noise is the axial play in the followers ?
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 02, 2014, 19:15:14
so there is no end to end play on the cam followers once installed ?

Yup!

so the noise is the axial play in the followers ?

I guess we'll soon find out!

Crazy
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Sunrise4567 on Mar 03, 2014, 01:07:34
Great news that the fault is mine and not the bike!!!  Thanks for the photo, it was just what I was thinking about.

Pretty dumb mistake on my part.....I will let you know how I go when I do it tomorrow.  Might have to make a new gasket for the bottom of the cylinder or is it safe to do it the way suggested with a smear of silicon sealer and no gasket?  I have  high quality 220 c silicon sealer is this ok?

Cameron
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 03, 2014, 01:19:52
Mine runs fine without a gasket.

Be ultra-careful with the sealer.  Use an absolute minimum, and wipe clear for about 2mm around the edges.

It's nasty stuff in the wrong places!

Crazy
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Sunrise4567 on Mar 03, 2014, 04:08:41
Update..... this afternoon I removed the head and cylinder to rectify the incorrectly placed thrust washer.  When I turned the cylinder over to drift the locating pin out I couldn't see the washer.  All sorts of thoughts ran through my mind like did it fall out of my hands when i was putting it back together? Did I put it in then take it off because I wasn't sure where it should go,  then leave it out all together by mistake?  It all became clear when I drained and strained the oil...... Feeling a bit sick at the moment with the thought of my extreme incompetence.

Where to from here?  Does everthing need to come apart now?

As usual any information is greatly appreciated.   
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 03, 2014, 04:30:55
Does everthing need to come apart now?

Drain the oil and see if anything else falls out; but I would think that a tear-down is advisable.

Fortunately it is about as simple as a four-stroke motor can get.

Crazy
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Bojer on Mar 03, 2014, 04:44:55
I'd try just pouring some more oil in through the crankcase mouth and see if you can flush the rest out .

If that doesn't work might be worth 5 minutes with one of those telescopic magnets poking around - just a chance.

If you cannot account for it all it will need a motor strip as you don't want bits like that floating around - good luck with it .
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Sunrise4567 on Mar 03, 2014, 05:19:36
Good advice I will give it a try before embarking on the monumental for me, task of striping the engine
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: sprocket2cog on Mar 03, 2014, 06:28:59
at least it isnt an expensive part
number 41 on here
http://www.skyteamparts.com/store/e-2-cylinder-head-air-inlet-exhaust-system-valve-cylinder-body/
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 04, 2014, 04:47:49
I will give it a try

If you need to dismantle the motor post here before you start.

I'm sure the DTT 'Ace' crew can provide all the assistance and advice necessary to get a successful result.

Crazy
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Sunrise4567 on Mar 04, 2014, 16:43:11
Removed motor yesterday and all bolts around the centre of the crankcase, but when trying to seperate the two halves I could easily get around a 3-4mm gap but that is about it without forcing anything.  (Also removed the clutch side cover and inspected for any of the broken washer, but nothing in that side.)

Is there something else that needs to be removed before the two halves can be seperated for inspection purposes?

Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 04, 2014, 17:53:50
Is there something else that needs to be removed before the two halves can be seperated for inspection purposes?

It's a bit difficult to diagnose from this distance with no photos!

You have the clutch assembly and gear change shaft removed I suppose. Does the resistance seem to be coming from a particular position?

Crazy
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Bojer on Mar 04, 2014, 18:41:27
I get the impression that you have not fully dismantled the engine components from under the side covers ?

To get the cases split you have to pretty much remove all the components that are under the clutch and generator covers - clutch , centrifugal filter , primary gear , generator , gearchange shaft , sprocket etc. Apologies if I misunderstood  but as Crazy suggests maybe some pics might help ?

The cases might need some persuasion to come apart as you are separating doweled joints and the main bearings from their housings but shouldn't need "force" - be a bit cautious .
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 04, 2014, 19:46:53
To get the cases split you have to pretty much remove all the components that are under the clutch and generator covers - clutch , centrifugal filter , primary gear , generator , gearchange shaft , sprocket etc.

As Bojer says!

Also, it's a good idea to have the motor sitting on the left side when you do split it.

Crazy
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Sunrise4567 on Mar 04, 2014, 20:57:19
From the left side do you mean as you look at the bike from the front?
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 04, 2014, 21:15:35
The left side when you're sitting on the bike, the drive sprocket side.

Crazy
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Sunrise4567 on Mar 04, 2014, 21:45:30
This is getting way past my level of knowledge.  Should have stopped at jets and rear sprocket!!!  I may have to take it to someone who knows what the they are doing for the rest of the job.

Thanks so much for trying to help though...Even after reading through an old CG125 manual I just dont want to make things even worse than they already are....If I had seen it done before I would be more confident but I reckon I should cut my losses, before I do more damage.
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 04, 2014, 22:09:30
I reckon I should cut my losses, before I do more damage.

It won't be easy to fix it yourself, but it is possible.

Getting someone else to do the the job may be quicker and easier, but it doesn't increase your knowledge and is probably going to be expensive.

Whatever you decide, keep us posted!

Crazy
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Sunrise4567 on Mar 05, 2014, 01:55:24
You make a lot of sense....will keep you up to date once I decide what I am going to do.
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: ACEitup on Mar 05, 2014, 05:42:18
Was one of the reasons I bought the bike,
If I cocked up, I could suck it up and buy a new part
or motor!!
Stick with it !
cheers ACEitup
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Sunrise4567 on Mar 31, 2014, 01:01:38
It won't be easy to fix it yourself, but it is possible.

Getting someone else to do the the job may be quicker and easier, but it doesn't increase your knowledge and is probably going to be expensive.

Whatever you decide, keep us posted!

Crazy
Well I have had a bike shop split the crankcase for me an inspect and clean out any remaining metal fragments from the thrust washer that was eaten. 

Turns out the cam gear ate it and in so doing made some ugly looking scratches and slight bends to some of it's teeth, so a new one was ordered from Ikonik along with a washer.

With the motor checked and recheched it was put back in and when started it still has the same valve train ticking that is louder than the original barrel and head.

Adrian from 00 racing had suggsted that dowels may be missing on reassembly of engine causing the headgasket to hit the piston or the piston being installed back to front but this was not the case.

Changed oils and went for a slightly higher viscosity oil than I had been using from 10w 40 up to 15w 50.  Still the same, the engine starts and runs perfectly and is quiet for the first minute or so then the ticking starts.

On the plus side I have done the front fork mod as per crazy's instructions and it works an absolute treat.  Thanks for that one....Stoked.

Also found a set of various sized threaded blanking screws with a allen head for the carby manifold hole from Bunnings for about $3.50.  Neat and tidy and cheap

And also cut a piece of rubber from an old bike tube and made another gasket to put under the fuel cap to stop any small leaks.

So some small wins......Hopefully more to come if anyone can rack their brain and come up with a possible reason for the louder ticking.
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Sunrise4567 on Mar 31, 2014, 01:10:07
pic of the damaged cam gear....
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: orrible-64 on Mar 31, 2014, 01:14:19
mine ticks too.been searching for what changes????

still runs fine and goes well , revs hard and if it blows up...well i had fun.

will be swapping the 125 gear back on but keeping big valve head for racing at the salt lake next year. no 150cc class.  Goes 50,100,125,175,250 i think.

i think that it is in the rocker gear and (guess)the washer you have fitted may not be required in the lifan motor ??? tighter clearances may have spat the washer.

have bought an endoscope to have a look in at rocker gear. will let you know what i see
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 31, 2014, 01:30:36
So some small wins......

Glad you didn't have much damage - it could have been waaay worse!

Not sure about the ticking; the 150 set-up seems to be mechanically a bit noisier than the 125.
I've done nearly 2000k since the upgrade and everything seems fine.

Crazy
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: dahond on Mar 31, 2014, 09:18:41
I've learned, from an old honda garagist, you should hear a pushrod ticking +
the clearance on the exhaust can be set a little larger  : the exhaust valve gets warmer en the pushrod expands more.
My 125 ticks.
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Bojer on Mar 31, 2014, 11:25:17
Yep my Ace is "noisier" than other non balance shaft equipped 125s I've owned , nothing dramatic - did wonder if it was my "hard" run in ?!  ???
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Tijmen on Jun 03, 2014, 18:08:24
I'm thinking of installing a 150 big bore kit on my Suzuki GN125 and was wondering what you think after having ridden it for a while. How significant is the performance increase?
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Jun 04, 2014, 00:08:14
I'm thinking of installing a 150 big bore kit on my Suzuki GN125 …

I don't know about the Suzuki, but it's made a significant difference to the 'Ace'.

My 150 has no difficulty accelerating away from the 125 model, even though I'm somewhat overgeared with 17/35 sprockets.

I think the larger valves help as much as the 20% increase in capacity.

Crazy
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Sunrise4567 on Jun 04, 2014, 02:22:58
How significant is the performance increase?
I have found the increase in performance to be just as crazy states, around the same percentage as the capacity increase.  It makes a real difference in mid range torque where it was definately required.  Top end gains where not as great in my experience, but my exhaust has the cat removed and a 12mm hole in end baffle which is probally washing a bit of top end speed off which is a trade off against a really loud straight through system and custom header.  Like crazy also mentioned gearing, carb, jets and filters all combines to make a much more pleasurable experience.
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: ACEitup on Jun 04, 2014, 09:05:24
.
My 150 has no difficulty accelerating away from the 125 model


I can confirm that :(
still waiting for ooracing to have the 150 big bore, valve head back in stock!
a week to go I'm told ?
mean while I'm thrashing this pup!
cheers ACEitup
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: ACEitup on Jul 30, 2014, 07:52:47
Hey All,
Finally got delivery of my 150 cc big bore and valve kit from ooracing !
after being out of stock for a month or 2 :(
Following crazy's guide as posted.!
As my first major mechanical job it  all when to plan
and as Crazy did make it over
to help and guide me to reassemble.
and kindly supplied the torque wrench.
Ur a Legend mate !
It would of started first go but I decided to do a quick
carby jet upgrade !!!! ( ran the battery dead trying )
kicked over when I sorted the fuel
anyways all good !!
Only done a fews K's but I 'm smiling !
Money well spent.
looking forward to tweaking carby !
btw in 7 hrs we did 2 bikes,  (plus my carby rejet )
including shopping for jets and oil !
Now, just need to ride....
cheers ACEitup
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: orrible-64 on Jul 30, 2014, 09:59:01
Enjoy, it is great mod


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: cafe59 on Aug 01, 2014, 00:45:07
Money well spent.

Now I am tempted to get one too!
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 01, 2014, 03:35:52
Enjoy, it is great mod

The master of understatement!

Now I am tempted to get one too!

Do it!

You won't regret it.

Crazy
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 02, 2014, 05:19:03
The Sydney 'Ace' crew go big!

Now ACEitup and acecafe have gone for the big-bore we have 150 x 3:

(http://blg.nikonsrc.com/image/NYEanqfcRgLMPoFOq1akcCHjYoJxAGzfqCEZ5cBjdIzRIjDQMhvjbk-cZqK6FRuk9sBfSbdJtSM/item.JPG?)

And the HD tagged along to keep us honest.

Crazy
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: sprocket2cog on Aug 02, 2014, 06:24:17
looking good
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Acebrybry on Aug 02, 2014, 10:39:54
Have you had any hassles from the police with the rear guards removed?
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Aug 02, 2014, 19:11:52
That's ACEitup's bike with no rear guard - he's had no hassles so far!

He also had the front guard removed until the day we were out riding and it started raining. I don't think I've ever seen anyone get so wet, so quick!

Crazy
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stevodude on Sep 19, 2014, 17:07:18
Aussie design rules (adr) are now changing to abolish the need for a rear wheel cover.
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: bongoAce on Sep 19, 2014, 23:49:12
I notice ooracing offer two different types - STANDARD and GAS FLOWED?
What is the difference - apart from the price (99GBP more)? Which one are you guys getting?
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 20, 2014, 00:23:57
Which one are you guys getting?

ACEitup, acecafe, and myself have all converted with the standard big-bore.

Ninety-nine quid seems expensive for a (theoretical) small power increase.  It should be possible to get the job done locally if it was felt to be essential
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: bongoAce on Sep 20, 2014, 01:19:28
Great, thanks!
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: dualero on Sep 20, 2014, 01:23:28
I want to share my experience with you guys. Here in my country, cg125 clones are the norm. Though they are not 125 CC but 150 (CG150).

My bike was originally a CG125 clone and making some research (engine serial number indicates cylinder born diameter) I found buying the kit to replace cylinder, piston, rings and pin for one of those CG150 bikes I could increase the displacement to 150cc.

I kept my original 125cc head even though the valves are a little small, the overall volume of the combustion chamber is smaller than the 150 head, raising the compression ratio of the engine giving it a little boost in power.

I'm happy with my mod, it was bolt on and a lot less than 99 pounds. And now my bike has lots more power than when I got her

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Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 20, 2014, 05:12:08
I kept my original 125cc head …

I went for the larger valves for better breathing but didn't use a base gasket to help raise the compression.

If we weren't all so busy riding our little gems maybe we could actually take time to make some measurements to get the full picture.

Crazy
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: TonUp_Ace on Oct 14, 2014, 16:37:08
What is involved in getting the V5 logbook updated from 125cc to 150cc?
Has anyone had problems with insurance after fitting the 150cc head?
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Oct 14, 2014, 17:24:19
Where are you from TonUp_Ace?  A V5 logbook is not something I've come across.

Insurance hasn't been a problem.

Crazy
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: HerbertD on Oct 15, 2014, 01:10:24
When I did the 150cc conversion, I informed my insurance company (Swintons in the UK) and basically, it made little difference to the overall policy(I pay £138.00 for two bikes fully comprehensive - TRX 850 & ACE - 50 yr old, full no claims)
 To be fair, I should have also informed the DVLA so that they can alter the V5 Reg document as well, and I will do this, but this should be a formality.
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: 2b on Jan 08, 2015, 17:13:37
Has anyone found an alternative source for the 150 upgrade? When I add shipping cost from UK to NZ the ooracing kit looks a bit steep. Just wondering whether any of you managed to succesfully get the same stuff directly via EBay or from an Australian supplier. If so, please provide link!

Cheers
Richard
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: GTP on Jan 10, 2015, 18:26:28
There is this

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/150891831683?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648

Let me know how it goes
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Jan 10, 2015, 18:59:00
The OORacing kit also includes a head with larger valves - a major difference!

Crazy
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: 2b on Jan 11, 2015, 15:58:25
Is the head with larger valves available anywhere else?
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Just Dan on Jan 13, 2015, 01:18:13
Buying them from China maybe cheaper.

They list as 150, but post out a CG125 barrel an piston. How do I know ? I have on the shelf in the garage with new 125 barrels and piston kits.
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: 2b on Jan 13, 2015, 03:15:23
Oh dear. Risky then.
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Erskine on Jan 13, 2015, 10:13:50
order it direct from China ...... Where do you think oo get theirs from? Cut out the middle man.
It's not that more risky than ordering from anywhere else!!
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: 2b on Jan 13, 2015, 14:10:11
order it direct from China ...... Where do you think oo get theirs from? Cut out the middle man.
It's not that more risky than ordering from anywhere else!!

So I could order this piston and cylinder for NZ$83 landed...
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Cylinder-Big-Bore-62mm-Piston-Rings-Pin-Gaskets-kit-for-Honda-CG150-4stroke-150-/281336950683?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4180fd2f9b

It's description seems a bit confusing to me though. Lots of pictures on the listing. Can anyone confirm this would fit the Ace?
They say in the description...
"For Chinese 125cc Engine CG125 Copy only, like YAMASAKI YM125-3, CTM 125, HONGDOU, OUBAO, LIFAN 125GY-6 ETC"
"This big-bore kit fits the Chinese made CG125 copy engines 156FM1 engine."
"Please note: "DOES NOT FIT 156FM1 ENGINE WITH 2 PORT CYLINDER HEAD"
"The 156FM1 engine is the 125 push rod engine."

But I would then still need to know how to order the head with the larger valves. And I can't find that on ebay or aliexpress or the wider web! Anyone know where to get it from?
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Erskine on Jan 13, 2015, 15:56:24
I'm pretty damn sure that kit would fit the ace, they are all the same engine.

http://www.china-parts.co.uk/acatalog/Heads_Barrels.html#aEP007009

heads and barrels on this link.
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: orrible-64 on Feb 12, 2015, 17:02:40
Wonder if the 200 cc top end would fit??


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Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Erskine on Feb 12, 2015, 17:29:42
I think the 200 needs a different crank, Its a longer stroke ...... I maybe wrong but I think its 150 that has had the extra cc s from stroke in stead of bore.
I've thought about doing my 150 if the crank ever goes. Just replace it with the 200 crank and make an ally spacer to lift the bottom of the barrel up. Longer push rods job done.

http://www.china-parts.co.uk/acatalog/Brakes.html

GY/CG 200 crank at bottom, £60

The guys who retro fit CG125 engines into competition TL125 trials bikes prefer them at 150 rather than stroked. Because at 150 the bore and stroke are pretty much square, the revs pick up very quickly and it is more tuneable. The 200 is more of a donk in comparison although more powerful.

Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Erskine on Feb 12, 2015, 17:38:39
Lots of nice compatible engines on here:

http://www.china-parts.co.uk/acatalog/New_Engines.html

You could have a watercooled Ace, or I do think the 250 twin will fit as well.
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: orrible-64 on Feb 14, 2015, 10:05:53
cheers for the feedback on that...wont bother with 200.  much prefer a square motor,,,150 will be all. 
had a set  back today of huge proportions...was cleaning bike at the car wash and knocked over my bike...but no damage to bike...but caught it and broke my arm in the process,

bugga...

not in pain, but am incapacitated four 4 weeks at least...in a cast .
can you believe my bad luck.

anyway this will make my prep for speed week hard..

thankyou to the nice couple that drove me home..i don't even know your names. They even got my bike home for me. thank you thank you  thank you.

hope you do get an ace and i will help you with any mods if you do

pete
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Erskine on Feb 14, 2015, 20:00:57
This is my bike, it has a lifan engine and pulls two adults fast enough to be scary.
Bugger all wrong with these power units!
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Feb 14, 2015, 21:00:47
This is my bike …

That looks like serious fun Erskine!

CrazY
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Erskine on Feb 14, 2015, 21:50:51
Its got a 45 tooth rear sprocket which makes it good for 50 mph with a passenger, as fast as you can go on twisty english country lanes. I'm planning to drop it to 52 or even 60 teeth soon for a bit of an off road adventure.
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Feb 14, 2015, 22:08:32
50mph + passenger + country lanes …

Sounds terrifying!

Crazy
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: orrible-64 on Apr 26, 2015, 23:12:04
Btw. Found my ticking noise in motor. No valve stem seal on inlet. Missed in factory .


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Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Sunrise4567 on Apr 26, 2015, 23:46:56
Btw. Found my ticking noise in motor. No valve stem seal on inlet. Missed in factory.


I have this ticking too.  Do you think it will be an easy fix?
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: sprocket2cog on Apr 26, 2015, 23:49:27
I have this ticking too.  Do you think it will be an easy fix?

all push rod motors without hydraulic lifters will always have a small amount of ticking.
its just the way they are made.
if it goes away totally it means your valve clearance is too tight.
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Sunrise4567 on Apr 27, 2015, 01:27:29
all push rod motors without hydraulic lifters will always have a small amount of ticking.
its just the way they are made.
if it goes away totally it means your valve clearance is too tight.

I understand that a small amount of ticking is correct, but it was when changing from the 125 to 150 that the ticking increased to more than just a little bit and after warming up is quite loud.  After checking the valve clearances many times I had given up until now
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: orrible-64 on Apr 27, 2015, 02:59:58
Was what mine was like .should be able to see stem seals  through springs. They are green. This would be a very rare fault though. Only found when I stripped motor down after competition.  I doubt it would be the same on any other heads


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Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: orrible-64 on Apr 27, 2015, 03:02:08
Mine got worse after motor warms up. I used stem seal from old head to repair


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Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: orrible-64 on Apr 27, 2015, 08:05:27
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/27/50db287c39805c323c003702bdc2bb63.jpg)


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Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: orrible-64 on Apr 27, 2015, 08:06:22
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/27/a5931671c3e6aa2ff57395709b8f15dc.jpg)

Right picture



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Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Sunrise4567 on Apr 27, 2015, 17:50:17
Mine got worse after motor warms up. I used stem seal from old head to repair




Ok great, now I now what to look for.  Do you need a special tool to compress the valve spring to get to the seal?
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: orrible-64 on Apr 27, 2015, 19:53:22
Yes and no.. Can just push down on valve cap with a socket but I made this from a g clamp and old socket . Can be done without it welded together .(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/27/cca869bde097855f87854ec3c66f1511.jpg)


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Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: orrible-64 on Apr 27, 2015, 19:59:04
The gap is to put retainers back in. Takes some balancing on the edge of the bench and some patience to put collets back in. Google YouTube doing valves with household items for a guide.. I made the tool and the discovery when I went to port my head. Had done a mates the day before and took mine apart and found no seal.


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Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: sunbeam61 on Jul 18, 2015, 00:01:52
Finally got round to fitting the 150cc bits after looking at them for 12 months. Mine are not OO Racing but e-bay purchases at half the cost ( about A$186.00). I did a lot of research before buying. The "big valve head" is just the standard larger valve head for the 150cc motor. I also did not need 6mm/8mm exhaust studs as my exhaust header clamp was already 8mm from the factory. Only problem I had was not realizing that the aluminium crush washer can be taken out of the old 125cc head and reused in the 150cc head. Put it all together with the original exhaust and Mikuni (china rip off)set for the 125cc and it started 1st time. Only needs the carby rejected ...Now sounds even more like a real bike....LOL.
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: sunbeam61 on Jul 18, 2015, 00:05:56
Would just like to add ,that I found this posting 'how to' very useful ,but a little more basic type of details, for complete newbies, would have been good.
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: 2b on Jul 18, 2015, 02:02:06
Would just like to add ,that I found this posting 'how to' very useful ,but a little more basic type of details, for complete newbies, would have been good.

I'll be doing my 150 upgrade in the next couple of months and am a newbie. Am keen to read about any extra tips you may have :-)
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Jul 18, 2015, 03:17:57
a little more basic type of details, for complete newbies, would have been good.

It was a pretty straightforward job; what did I miss?

Crazy
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: f3nrich on Jul 21, 2015, 19:43:58
Fitted my kit last week and she just doesn't seem to be running right
The bike idles & starts fine, as more torque low down it seems, but just wont rev. It's topping out in 1st before 20 very much out of puff where the 125 would still pull and pull.
Bike has an exhaust, egr delete, cdi, jets and plug mods, was pretty fast seeing the needle off the clocks downhill.

Double checked my valve clearance, tweaked the carb and tried another bigger carb that a mate had laying about but no change...

Any ideas?
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Erskine on Jul 22, 2015, 12:02:12
Fitted my kit last week and she just doesn't seem to be running right
The bike idles & starts fine, as more torque low down it seems, but just wont rev. It's topping out in 1st before 20 very much out of puff where the 125 would still pull and pull.
Bike has an exhaust, egr delete, cdi, jets and plug mods, was pretty fast seeing the needle off the clocks downhill.

Double checked my valve clearance, tweaked the carb and tried another bigger carb that a mate had laying about but no change...

Any ideas?


Yep. Go back to the original jet and try adjusting it on the needle first.
Also have you just fitted an inline fuel filter? If so ditch it! A lot of these filters require fuel to go through under pump pressure, not gravity. With identical mods mine only required richening one notch on needle.
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: f3nrich on Jul 22, 2015, 12:48:52
Yep. Go back to the original jet and try adjusting it on the needle first.
Also have you just fitted an inline fuel filter? If so ditch it! A lot of these filters require fuel to go through under pump pressure, not gravity. With identical mods mine only required richening one notch on needle.

Going to pop the standard carb back on tonight, do you mean the standard ace jets?
No fuel filter.
only thing that's changed is the cylinder, piston, head and spark plug. (going to try the old plug tonight just for peace of mind)

Emailed Adrian from OOracing, who despite being on holiday replied asap and recommended I try the standard CDI box.

Ill see how I go!
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Erskine on Jul 22, 2015, 15:17:50
Yep standard carb standard jets. Start with needle in middle groove then lower clip to richen as necessary. Bare in mind that the 200 uses the same carb!
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: orrible-64 on Jul 23, 2015, 12:16:22
Standard carb has no slots on needle.


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Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Erskine on Jul 23, 2015, 16:12:19
Standard carb has no slots on needle.


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Really? Must be another cost cutting exercise! If this is the case that defo screws up fine adjustment ...
A CB/CG/XL/SL/TL needle will have for sure, also other applications of the clone motor do as well.
Worth sourcing and should only be a couple of quid/bucks/sheckles.
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: f3nrich on Jul 24, 2015, 05:45:22
Well I've pretty much ruled out all air fuel and spark.
So in the process of putting my standard head on to see how it runs then.

Pretty sure it will cure as after removing the big valve head my mate had a go at it with a valve compressor and they hardly move!
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Erskine on Jul 24, 2015, 10:57:57
Forgot to say. Mine uses standard 125 head, ups the compression but gives ouddles of torque.
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: f3nrich on Jul 27, 2015, 10:29:34
standard head back on and now it runs like it should

Shame I got a duff head  :-\
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Erskine on Jul 27, 2015, 16:48:15
Well done, have you tried it with the race CDI?
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: f3nrich on Jul 30, 2015, 08:03:35
Yeah after trying the standard cdi unit I put the OORacing 'blue' cdi back on.

Took her out for a ride with my mates last night and it's great, noticeably better on hills
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Erskine on Jul 30, 2015, 19:54:46
If you find the time, gas flowing the 125 head and lapping in the valves will crisp things up further. Running the 125 head ups your compression ratio so thats part of your perfomance gain. If you get a dremel you can smooth the casting in the inlet and exhaust ports on the head, and remove any casting ridges. Then match the very outer part of the exhaust port to the internal diameter of the exhaust. BE CAREFUL not to take any metal away from the floor of the exhaust port further inside because you risk weakening the dome of the combustion chamber, but you can polish it up. Then keep an eye on the plug colour in case you need to adjust the carb needle.
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: sunbeam61 on Aug 06, 2015, 09:50:50
Crazy...Once again thanks for the article. One problem that took me a while to sort was the crush washer for the exhaust. I've never used these before on my Rootes group engines and didn't realize I could dig out the original from the 125 head and reuse it. Took a while but got it sorted.....then again doing this sort of stuff was one of the attractions of the Ace.
Now fitted a better looking taillight and a reflector that has led lights in it.
I'm running a china Mikuni 26 (22mm) 100/20 jets and just about all the mods others have done, but still original header pipe.
Went for a blast after 130km on the 150 mods and have topped out at 115 on the speedo and while sitting on 100km/h on the motorway was actually tempted to overtake..the bike felt like it just wanted to go. Now will sit on 90km/h as a cruising speed.
As I noted on the other Ace site I need info Re a 7inch headlight. Can I use a H4 halogen with the Ace wiring?
Thanks ..Chris...

Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: orrible-64 on Aug 06, 2015, 10:35:48
H4 is ok


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Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Racing Ruben on Aug 11, 2015, 15:59:26
Hey guys,
I'd just like to give a big (bore) thank you to everybody who added hints and tips on this topic, especially to Crazy.
Thanks to this piece of information I succeeded to install my kit without any problems. One moment of panic when I dropped one of the pushrods in the engine but I got it back pretty quick.
It started from the first time (same carb settings as I had before: 48-95 jets and velocity stack) and rode it for a few k's.  Sounds great, feels great!  Very curious to see how it performs in a few 100 km's.

A very grateful and proud Ruben
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: 2b on Aug 11, 2015, 17:36:59
It started from the first time (same carb settings as I had before: 48-95 jets and velocity stack)

Well done Ruben. Good to hear another success story.

Were those jets both from OO Racing? If so then I think that they are probably pretty much optimal when you look at what I had worked out in here...
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1USvziYIyzfyxfZA1YYpQf9eP4djb0GLWbvWcmME88Gk/edit#gid=1

Once you get it run in, if anything is not right at wide open (running a little rich?) you could try a 92.5 in the Mikuni (9mm) sizing or 100/102 in Keihin (8mm) sizing

Oh and where did you get the velocity stack for the standard carb from?

Cheers
Richard
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Racing Ruben on Aug 11, 2015, 18:23:16
Hey Richard,
Great document.  I read it carefully.  It's a fantastic summary.  All you need to know to tune the carb on our aces.
The pilot jet I'm using comes from the rejet kit from OORacing.  The main jet and the velocity stack was bought in a local store.
 http://www.antwerppitbikestore.be/
 It wasn't cheap but the pod filter was choking my engine after the first rejet and the bigger header. The stack works great.  I put a wire mesh in it to prevent sucking in small birds and other stuff ;-)

I tried a 100 main jet for a while but it sputtered at WOT. 
Maybe I shouldn't mess with the jets until the engine is completely run in?

I'll keep you guys informed.
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: 2b on Aug 11, 2015, 18:48:58
Yep leave well enough alone until you can run it hard. If it ain't broke, don't fix it :-)

When you do pull the main out,  it would be interesting to know whether it is 8mm or 9mm long, that seems to be the distinguishing factor between keihin and mikuni sizing.  I see the shop sells both. It's pretty obvious but as I mentioned in the write up you need to be sure that you are only changing sizes of main jet not manufacturer when sorting the main.

If it is 9mm long then it is a mikuni jet and you may find that tests show you are running a little rich and you could go down to a mikuni 92.5 (you certainly wouldn't want a 100 mikuni in there)

If it is 8mm long then it is a keihin jet and you may find that tests show you are running a bit lean and you could experiment with keihin 98 or 100

Did you get the first stack on the "open air tunnels" page? i.e. "Open Air Tunnel 40mm Silver - Long"

And what did you use for mesh and how did you attach it?

Cheers
Richard
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Racing Ruben on Aug 11, 2015, 19:08:24
I'll defenitely check the length of my main jet next time.  Thanks for the info.
The stack is on the website under "air filters "  then "air tunnels open" 

A bit embarassing but I used a part of a tea infuser spoon I had in the kitchen.  It was just the right size.  I placed it all the way in the stack, close to the carb opening.  Its squeezed between the stack and the carb.
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: orrible-64 on Aug 11, 2015, 23:24:38
Nice repurposing


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Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Racing Ruben on Aug 30, 2015, 15:11:27
Checked the length of the main jets I'm using.  They're 8mm keihin jets.  At the moment I'm using a 48 pilot, 100 main combination, velocity stack,OORacing header, trumpet muffler with minimal dampening wool, and big bore kit. 

A bit unsure about performance.  I've done about 150km with the big bore kit.  I've been gradually going to higher revs but it seems I'm not getting past 8000rpm.  It then starts to sputter and has no more power.  With the 125 cylinder I could get to arround 10000rpm. 
I feel a big difference in mid range power and acceleration.  But 100 kph seems to be the top speed. That's less than the 125.

Is this normal during breaking in?  Because of the extra friction of the new piston and cylinder?
Or is the carburator too restrictive and should I go for the mikuniVM26 (or bigger?) Or just use a different jet combination?

Any recommendations?
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Red Ace on Sep 14, 2015, 17:03:19
Hi Ruben,

I talked to the guy from world of wheels in Brasschaat.
He said to go for a bigger carb with 150cc kit. 28 (like aps suggested) would be way too big. But a 26mm would be perfect.
He mentioned a 170cc block... i want to know more about that option:-)

Grtz

Red Ace


Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: DohcBikes on Sep 14, 2015, 21:55:26
Checked the length of the main jets I'm using.  They're 8mm keihin jets.  At the moment I'm using a 48 pilot, 100 main combination, velocity stack,OORacing header, trumpet muffler with minimal dampening wool, and big bore kit. 

A bit unsure about performance.  I've done about 150km with the big bore kit.  I've been gradually going to higher revs but it seems I'm not getting past 8000rpm.  It then starts to sputter and has no more power.  With the 125 cylinder I could get to arround 10000rpm. 
I feel a big difference in mid range power and acceleration.  But 100 kph seems to be the top speed. That's less than the 125.

Is this normal during breaking in?  Because of the extra friction of the new piston and cylinder?
Or is the carburator too restrictive and should I go for the mikuniVM26 (or bigger?) Or just use a different jet combination?

Any recommendations?
In addition to sounding rich on the main, a 48 sounds really big for a pilot jet on that engine. Believe it or not a pilot that is too large can contribute to a rich condition throughout the throttle range. Try different jetting first.
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: 2b on Sep 15, 2015, 01:01:46
..a 48 sounds really big for a pilot jet on that engine...

In the Ace's standard carb, I think we have all found that the OO Racing 48 (one piece) pilot is spot on. It is what they recommend for Ace engines whether highly modified or standard and they established the size on their dyno. It replaces the three piece pilot that comes standard.

Just posting this again for those that haven't seen them. Database of Ace owner's mods and a piece on jetting the Ace carb that covers the pilot jet.

If any one is considering changing their pilot jet, I suggest you run through steps under the "Tuning After A Pilot Jet Change" heading first to establish whether a change is indeed needed...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1USvziYIyzfyxfZA1YYpQf9eP4djb0GLWbvWcmME88Gk/edit#gid=0
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1USvziYIyzfyxfZA1YYpQf9eP4djb0GLWbvWcmME88Gk/edit#gid=1
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: 2b on Sep 15, 2015, 01:32:48

Checked the length of the main jets I'm using.  They're 8mm keihin jets.  At the moment I'm using a 48 pilot, 100 main combination, velocity stack,OORacing header, trumpet muffler with minimal dampening wool, and big bore kit. 

A bit unsure about performance.  I've done about 150km with the big bore kit.  I've been gradually going to higher revs but it seems I'm not getting past 8000rpm.  It then starts to sputter and has no more power.  With the 125 cylinder I could get to arround 10000rpm. 
I feel a big difference in mid range power and acceleration.  But 100 kph seems to be the top speed. That's less than the 125.

Is this normal during breaking in?  Because of the extra friction of the new piston and cylinder?
Or is the carburator too restrictive and should I go for the mikuniVM26 (or bigger?) Or just use a different jet combination?

Any recommendations?

Not sure if your symptoms are the same as F3nrich a few pages back on this forum. He found going back to the 125 head was the answer and concluded he got a duff 150 head!

From the spreadsheet about the ace carb it would seem you are running the right main, but may be worth trying one size smaller of the same brand and perhaps even one size larger. What happens when you run through the suggestions in the spreadsheet for sizing the main?



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Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Racing Ruben on Sep 17, 2015, 15:44:01
Not sure if your symptoms are the same as F3nrich a few pages back on this forum. He found going back to the 125 head was the answer and concluded he got a duff 150 head!

From the spreadsheet about the ace carb it would seem you are running the right main, but may be worth trying one size smaller of the same brand and perhaps even one size larger. What happens when you run through the suggestions in the spreadsheet for sizing the main?



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I think I solved my problem.  After trying different jets (without getting closer to running right), adjusting the fuel screw and some reading on this forum, I decided to put my 125 head back on the cylinder.  And just like F3nrich this solved my problem.  Now the engine revs smoothly to high rpm. (bonus: no more loud ticking noise )
I wonder if there's something wrong with a few of the big valve heads.  Or maybe just a coincidence I ran into the same problems as F3nrich.
Thanks for the advice guys,

Ruben
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Harrison9757 on Nov 17, 2015, 09:44:09
Hi guys,

Apologies for digging up an older thread but I'm curious for when you guys have ran the 150 with the 125 head, have you used the base gasket or are you running with just a smear of sealant like crazy? I'm thinking of too much compression with a combination of both.

Thanks in advance,

Sam
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Racing Ruben on Nov 17, 2015, 15:03:32
 Hey Sam,

I didn't use the base gasket only sealant.  Since then I've done almost 700km.  No complaints yet. Very happy with the 150 big bore with 125 head combination. 

Ruben
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Harrison9757 on Nov 17, 2015, 16:49:04
Hey Sam,

I didn't use the base gasket only sealant.  Since then I've done almost 700km.  No complaints yet. Very happy with the 150 big bore with 125 head combination. 

Ruben


Beautiful,

Cheers for that bud.

Sam
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Erskine on Nov 17, 2015, 18:06:03
Hi guys,

Apologies for digging up an older thread but I'm curious for when you guys have ran the 150 with the 125 head, have you used the base gasket or are you running with just a smear of sealant like crazy? I'm thinking of too much compression with a combination of both.

Thanks in advance,

Sam

With the 125 head you get more torque and higher compression. This is how they run the Honda TL125 trials bikes with the 150 OHV swapped in.
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: orrible-64 on Nov 17, 2015, 21:46:36
About to try 125 head with 15 thou of fits face in one fifty ace.


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Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Harrison9757 on Nov 18, 2015, 03:25:57
Great help chaps!
I've got the 150 but no big valve head atm, was unsure if I needed to wait to get the new head, but now I know this I'm set to go :)

Sam
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: bonester on Nov 18, 2015, 07:54:58
About to try 125 head with 15 thou of fits face in one fifty ace.


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Let us know how that goes!
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: orrible-64 on Nov 18, 2015, 07:57:55
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/18/d672c8474158bf54ee6ec683341b3173.jpg)

Exhaust port
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/18/d7f04d88c793e0d54b476a8bb8c7853b.jpg)

Intake
 

Not quite done



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Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: orrible-64 on Nov 18, 2015, 08:05:35
The ridge in the roof is needed, found out the hard way when I removed all of it and broke through to the valve spring land.


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Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: orrible-64 on Nov 18, 2015, 08:06:23
A bit more fine sanding to go


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Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: orrible-64 on Nov 18, 2015, 08:07:05
A hack job . No flow bench


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Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Red Ace on Nov 20, 2015, 16:52:07
Hey Ruben,

What is the top speed now?
You are still running the stock carb (with bigger jets?)?
I want to go for exactly the same big bore kit.
But i want a bigger carb.
Did you had to wait a long time for the ooracing parts to arrive?

Cheers,

Red Ace
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Racing Ruben on Nov 20, 2015, 18:05:47
Hey Red Ace,

My top speed hasn't changed a lot.  It's still around 110-115 kmh but it gets there a lot faster. I'm almost 95kg so that's not too bad for the bike.  It's a lot more fun to ride now
I'm not using the big valve head because I didn't get it to run right (couldn't get it over 8000 rpm and no top power) Once I changed back to the original head everything was OK.  I'm not the only one with this setup. 
 I'm still running the stock carb with 48-100 jets in it.  Not quite sure how much gain to expect from a bigger carb. 

Everything I've ordered from Ooracing always arrives within a few days.

Keep us posted,
Veel succes met het installeren en misschien tot binnenkort,

Ruben
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Erskine on Nov 21, 2015, 06:14:50
Hey Ruben,

What is the top speed now?
You are still running the stock carb (with bigger jets?)?
I want to go for exactly the same big bore kit.
But i want a bigger carb.
Did you had to wait a long time for the ooracing parts to arrive?

Cheers,

Red Ace

Hey Red
As Rubén says, there is nothing to be gained from a bigger carb. The stock sized carb is used on 125/150/200 models and seems to be the right one. The only major development with the fuel delivery that has been made is with the Brazillian Honda Titan CGs which have fuel injection.
These OHV engines NEED back pressure! A full bore manifold helps but the silencer/muffler needs to not exceed the internal diametre of the manifold. If you create a pressure drop all power gains go out the window and you will just create noise.
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Erskine on Nov 21, 2015, 16:50:25
About to try 125 head with 15 thou of fits face in one fifty ace.


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And?
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Alex jb on Nov 21, 2015, 19:04:41
Guys,
Interesting read!
I'm not an Ace owner, but I am considering one.
Has anyone bothered to dyno an Ace before and after the 150bore/125head and jetting?
Just wondering.
Probably makes much more than my 77 CD175!
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: orrible-64 on Nov 22, 2015, 04:35:01
Still putting finishing touches on head. Hopefully next week


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Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: orrible-64 on Nov 22, 2015, 04:38:34
I went with a different carb because it had easier tuning in mid range.  Needle is not easy to move with stock carb.  Standard size is ok. Saw no real horsepower gain with change in carb


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Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: orrible-64 on Nov 24, 2015, 00:24:56
150 bore and 150 head. Bigger exhaust mild port tidy up(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/23/c4cec3bdc0edf0cf60c505391390d81c.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/23/3f4b365e5df0034de6d6b702488c9222.jpg)


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Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Nov 24, 2015, 03:11:09
It looks like it feels!

My seat-of-the pants dyno is in agreement.

Crazy
Title: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Alex jb on Nov 24, 2015, 03:35:18
Excellent! The dyno doesn't lie.
Glad you are having success with the bigger valve head.


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Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: orrible-64 on Nov 24, 2015, 04:19:57
Sadly I can't fit my 125 head on yet as I am working( damn job gets in the way 12-14 hrs days  4 on 4 off). Will see what happens Friday I hope ! Unshrouded around valves, port job done , yet to Machine 15 thou off . If I get really carried I will raise the floors of the ports a bit to straighten out the flow as the roof has been lifted a lot . I am hoping for the gains you have seen on top of my other playing around. Should see a bit more than 10 hp as in my dyno charts from last year


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Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: orrible-64 on Jan 11, 2016, 07:15:37
As an update on motor with shaved head.  Went brilliant. Worst luck half the left engine cover is on the freeway. Half way through building a new ace.  May not have time or money to put on dyno before speed week. I'm healing up ok .


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Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: orrible-64 on Jan 11, 2016, 07:16:49
Btw was knocked off my bike by another bike on freeway during local Christmas toy run.


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Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Alex jb on Jan 11, 2016, 15:17:03
That sucks!
Heal well and enjoy the rebuild.


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Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: orrible-64 on Feb 08, 2016, 01:36:37
125 head now on in new block, 150 bore used a 10 thou head gasket instead of the 50 thou paper composite gasket. Runs ok . Can't ride yet due to my dickie knee. I'll get my test pilot to ride it soon. Sounds the bees knees. Running Brazilian cam with no change to cam timing. 18 front and 34 rear sprockets. Defiantly not a wheel stander. Sorting out my road lights so it can go out and play before the salt.


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Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Shawn.male on Sep 23, 2017, 23:08:43
Hi everyone, I've sourced a 150cc kit from OOR and looking for a good install guide for a novice. This looks ideal but Stroker Crazy's photos seemed to have been moved/archived. Any chance of them being reposted or recommendations for a guide to installation that can be found elsewhere? cheers.
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 23, 2017, 23:17:13
Any chance of them being reposted?

The photo service I was using is no more!

Will repost over next few days.

Crazy
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 25, 2017, 22:22:15
Remove seat and petrol tank to allow clear access:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917034641.jpeg)

Remove carburettor and intake, spark plug, exhaust, horn and bracket:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917003633.jpeg)

Remove head steady bracket, the two bolts holding the front engine mounting bracket to downtube, top rear mounting bolt, and loosen bottom rear mounting bolt:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917004749.jpeg)

Remove tappet cover:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917005029.jpeg)

Remove rocker assembly; when lifting pushrods, make a note of which is intake and which exhaust:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917034225.jpeg)
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 25, 2017, 22:41:30
Remove the four head bolts, not forgetting the cam locating bolt on LHS of motor:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917005557.jpeg)

Lift head clear, keeping a look out for the dowels between head and cylinder:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917010019.jpeg)

Undo cylinder location screws on LHS of motor:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917011018.jpeg)

Lift cylinder, taking care to stuff crankcase openings as soon as possible

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917011552.jpeg)

Pry out circlip from one end of gudgeon pin and push pin through the piston from the opposite side. (do not re-use circlips!)

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917012520.jpeg)
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 25, 2017, 22:53:28
Install new piston noting marked inlet side (lightly oil gudgeon pin to install),
make sure circlip gaps are to top or bottom rotate rings so that the gaps are 60 degrees apart:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917012718.jpeg)

Swap cam followers from original cylinder (be careful not to lose the wave washer) to the new cylinder:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917013350.jpeg)

Dowels in place in head:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917013915.jpeg)

Install 8mm/6mm exhaust studs:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917014345.jpeg)

Smear a very light coat of silcon sealant on cylinder mating surface, if you are not using a base gasket:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917014703.jpeg)
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 25, 2017, 23:12:08
After cleaning any gasket remains from crankcase and replacing dowels, lightly oil the cylinder and carefully slide into place over the piston (remove the stuffing when the rings are inside the cylinder):

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917014941.jpeg)

Position head gasket and top dowels:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917034037.jpeg)

Bolt head in place (20–22lbf. or 28–30n/m) and replace cam locating bolt (13–16.5 lbf.). Be very careful when replacing the pushrods – angle them toward the outside corner and rock the cam using the kick-start lever to ensure contact. If not positioned correctly they will drop into the motor, necessitating the removal of the head and cylinder in order to retrieve them:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917005317.jpeg)

Replace rocker assembly:

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/12142-240917034423.jpeg)

Replace engine mounting bolts (8mm 22.5–27.5 n/m)

Adjust valve clearances – intake 0.1mm (0.004˝), exhaust 0.15mm (0.006˝). For correct TDC inlet valve should be closing as piston rises.

Replace tappet cover, refit head steady, carby, spark plug, horn, tank, etc.

Before starting, remove oil bleed screw from rocker cover. Start motor; when oil bleeds from from vent, replace screw.
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 25, 2017, 23:25:32
That's as good as I remember!

Fortunately I had archived the photos. Any problems let me know.

Good luck!

Crazy
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: 2b on Sep 26, 2017, 06:37:35
And if like my kit, your rings are not fitted on arrival.....

Steps 1-3
1. Fit the corrugated type ring first, its actually an inverted T shape, so has to go in first to allow the two thin oil rings to fit in either side afterwards.

2. Fit the dark ring (D) facing up in the second groove.

3. Fit the silver ring (DY) facing up in the top groove.

READ MORE DETAIL IN THIS LINK>>>
http://www.duncanracing.com/TechCenter/4strk_ringinstall2-24-05.pdf

Clocking the rings vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJsJNjYEbKg
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: stroker crazy on Sep 26, 2017, 07:06:27
And if like my kit, your rings are not fitted on arrival.....

A great addition!

Thanks 2b.

Crazy
Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: Alex jb on Sep 26, 2017, 08:40:57
Top job!


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Title: Re: Lifan 150cc big-bore kit: Installation
Post by: r4g5 on Sep 29, 2017, 07:20:50
Thanks stoker and 2b for taking the time to upload these, this will be invaluable further down the line...top job

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