DO THE TON

Blood Sweat Tears and Grease => Projects => Specials => Topic started by: doc_rot on Dec 12, 2017, 18:00:16

Title: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Dec 12, 2017, 18:00:16
I moved a couple months ago and am no longer commuting 100 miles everyday so I can have a daily rider that has shorter service intervals. I've been wanting something vintage and cool, but not too nice so that I worry about it. Enter this '86 GSXR 750 i picked up for cheap recently. My plan right now is to get it on the road, ride it, and not do anything too crazy. I'm going to attempt to do my own "dirtbag challenge" and build this thing for less than $1000 including the purchase price. I think its doable because this project is pretty complete (came with a box of parts), I have a ton of parts just laying around collecting dust, and I have a friend who used to race these bikes who has a garage full of parts that he will let go for cheap.

The history of this bike that was related to me from the seller is this; his father bought this bike new, hopped it up, rode it a ton, and then sold it in the late nineties. Earlier this year he saw a guy driving this bike around and realized it was his dad's old bike so he chased him down and bought the bike off the guy. He didn't have the time or money to fix it up so he passed it on to me. Obviously his dad loved it because there are lots of cool parts on it but whoever owned it after him did a real number on it.

First thing to tackle is the wiring; its a total rat nest. The PO already started stripping it out to fix it. I found a PDF of the service manual, and am trying to determine what parts are missing from electrical system. For a second I thought these bikes didn't have a regulator, but after scrutinizing the diagram it appears its in the alternator.I'm going to wire it first just to run to see if this turd is worth building, if it cooperates and runs then I'll do a proper harness. Heres some pics.
Title: Re: Dirbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: irk miller on Dec 12, 2017, 18:28:44
Those forks are so fun.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Dec 13, 2017, 03:19:42
I can't decide if I should keep the 16" front Dymag, or use a set of Bandit 1200 wheels, rotors and 6 pot calipers my buddy offered up
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: WhyNot on Dec 13, 2017, 06:38:31
Cool, I gotta watch.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: 1fasgsxr on Dec 13, 2017, 10:26:01
I am so watching this one !!
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: Popeye SXM on Dec 13, 2017, 10:37:22
Great bikes the gsxr 750 even by todays standards. Me I'd go with 6 pot brakes, I find they give more ''feel'', always a good thing on a commuter. I hope this one doesn't give too much trouble
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: Maritime on Dec 13, 2017, 10:47:05
Sign me up. looks like fun
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: The Limey on Dec 13, 2017, 17:00:55
Ooh, a Flexi Flier.  I've always had a soft spot for those old slabsides.  Good old fashioned hairy chested machines.  Watching with interest.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Dec 24, 2017, 06:34:17
I hacked  the wiring and it fired up with a squirt of starting fluid. I then pulled the carbs and suspecting they were super dirty, took  them apart. Turns out they are RS36 flat slides. Nice upgrade for a hot motor. Also it appears the slide pivot shaft is held on with spring pins. What is the best way to remove  these without doing damage?  I really want to do a deep clean on  these carbs because they are so dirty.
https://youtu.be/xMxB4B0Xjkw
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: jpmobius on Dec 24, 2017, 11:07:45
I just drive them out with a pin punch, but you do have to be careful.  It's very important to back up behind the pin properly.  Sometimes I will make a back up plate with a finger or arm that fits up into where the pin is out of a piece of steel angle or plate that I can clamp securely in a bench vise.  Drilling a hole in it for the pin to pass through will provide good support so you don't damage anything.  Getting someone to hold the rack accurately on the back up while you tap out the pin(s) helps a lot.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: Streetfighterkz on Dec 24, 2017, 11:12:52
Look into SRAD Gsxr600 4-piston calipers. Zrx owners upgrade to those over the stock Tokico (same caliper as B12/Busa/Gsxr750W/1100W).

Btw, I had a odd relationship with the 89 Gsxr750 I used to own. Always wanted an O/C Gsxr so I found it cheap then barely rode it. Maybe Id have like it more if it was a 1100?

Later, Doug
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Dec 25, 2017, 03:15:12
JP- made a finger and hammered em out. Worked good. Doug-  I'll check out those calipers. I want to upgrade the brakes. It already has EBC pro-lite discs.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Dec 25, 2017, 05:14:11
Carbs are disassembled, and I soda blasted everything and did an initial clean, focusing on cleaning out the needle bearings and regreasing them. Most of the rubber is rock hard so I will replace the o rings, and a couple other things.  The header basically has barb wire holding things together and the back mount was held on with a piece of a door handle. I assume the primaries  slip  out of the bolt on flanges? Seems pretty stuck, but I want  to confirm before I get rough with it. Literally every piece of the plastic including the headlights, seat ,and tail is broken or mangled so I'm  chucking it all except for the upper fairing which I will repair. Yes those are wood screws.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: teazer on Dec 25, 2017, 10:36:11
I just drive them out with a pin punch, but you do have to be careful.  It's very important to back up behind the pin properly.  Sometimes I will make a back up plate with a finger or arm that fits up into where the pin is out of a piece of steel angle or plate that I can clamp securely in a bench vise.  Drilling a hole in it for the pin to pass through will provide good support so you don't damage anything.  Getting someone to hold the rack accurately on the back up while you tap out the pin(s) helps a lot.

That is exactly the right way to remove roll pins.

Nice slabbie project.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Jan 09, 2018, 04:42:11
I got the bike titled so this project can proceed full steam!
I decided to do the fun part first to get me motivated and give direction to the whole thing.
Started sanding the fairing down to bare plastic, there had to be 1/4" of paint on this thing. once I had it stripped bare I realized this fairing has been repaired many times and was cracked everywhere. Coincidentally my dad recently finished building a wooden kayak and had a bunch of resin and fiberglass leftover that he  offered to me, so I got creative. I made a crude jig and mounted the original fairing on it then filled in voids with clay. I also did a thin final layer over the whole thing inside and out to seal in the original fairing because I just kept finding new cracks.

 I'm going to use a 4.5" Harley headlight with a custom bucket i made years ago and never used. Offset, endurance style; i rounded over the opposite side of the fairing as well to compliment the look.

Im going to try something I have never done and fabricate and aluminum rear cowl.  Needs some bashing and trimming but its getting there. Total cost of the cowl with stick on seat will be about $40 depending on how much I spend on fasteners.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Jan 09, 2018, 05:39:26
I traded some parts for a bunch of seals and gaskets, 6 pot calipers, a used 530 chain, fork seal driver, and a valve adjustment tool.

I had time to inspect the rear wheel. There was no spacer on the sprocket side except a steering neck lock nut that was doing absolutely nothing as the sprocket bolts were grinding on the swing-arm. I have a 10mm thick 20mm spacer that came in the box of parts that fits in the rear wheel dust seal perfectly. However, when the rear is assembled with that 10mm spacer there is not enough room on the other side for the remaining spacers. Is it possible the PO assembled the rear wheel without this spacer at some point and cranked on the axle hard enough that the swing arm bent and now the spacers wont fit? I got two wheels in the deal they appear to be identical, except with different disks. One is missing a bearing and the bearing spacer, and the other needs new bearings completely. Also the stepped spacer that goes in between the sprocket carrier and wheel is missing.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: Pete12 on Jan 09, 2018, 07:06:19
Great job on the rear cowl. Is it all one piece, except for the seat base of course?
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: canyoncarver on Jan 09, 2018, 12:47:53
That old rear sprocket tells a tale doesn't it?
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: 1fasgsxr on Jan 09, 2018, 13:04:25
Looks more like a saw blade... :o
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Jan 09, 2018, 17:11:55
Great job on the rear cowl. Is it all one piece, except for the seat base of course?

Im just getting started on the rear cowl, I only bent up one side so far. The camera makes it look more complete than it is. ultimately I think it will be 5 pieces total.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: canyoncarver on Apr 18, 2018, 17:43:17
Are you done yet?    ;)
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Apr 19, 2018, 00:46:35
Lol, masters thesis is priority uno right now. I'll be done in 3 weeks and then the bikes can get some real attention
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on May 16, 2018, 05:02:15
Well i finally have some time to work on this. I wanted to check the compression, but my compression tester died on the second cylinder, I did pull the valve cover to discover....shims? 86 should have adjuster screws.  I think its a 91-92 based off the Engine VIN. (R716-120195) I started pulling things off as literally everything on this bike needs attention. Its a rolling basket case.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: canyoncarver on May 16, 2018, 16:22:54
That's a better setup than the earlier screw adjuster type.  Those shims will be easy to measure and swap.   Cool!
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: 1fasgsxr on May 16, 2018, 21:00:14
I still want one of this generation.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on May 16, 2018, 22:20:43
That's a better setup than the earlier screw adjuster type.  Those shims will be easy to measure and swap.   Cool!
Also good for an additional 16hp!
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on May 22, 2018, 07:29:08
I have met a large debacle. I initially wasn't going to pull the motor, but the previous owner resprayed the it at one time and did a piss poor job of it. There is over-spray all over the frame and swing-arm, and the paint on the motor is flaking off badly. I pulled the engine to clean the frame properly and repaint the motor but while doing so I discovered one of the engine mount lugs on the frame has sheared off.

Im feeling like i should cut and run. There's too much ham-fisted stupid shit going on here. Its all parted out and ready to go, I could probably recoup my cost and then some based off the unusual parts.
Or.....
I could continue on. I have a friend who is more than qualified to repair this frame, and he'll probably do it for a 6 pack. Hell, I may even have him do some frame bracing while he's at it.

My concern is i'm gonna ride it, not like it, and want to sell it after putting a bunch of hard work into it.(been there done that) What is one of these worth if it was clean and everything had been gone through, with almost no original parts? $2000? (Bay area prices)

Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: Popeye SXM on May 22, 2018, 10:50:39
I feel your pain. it is decision time.... Looks like a lot of work to make nice, how healthy is the motor. Judging by the rest of the bike probably not good
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: teazer on May 22, 2018, 11:49:40
As I see it, not much is stock - motor is  a later Slingshot, rear wheel isn't stock, front wheel is a Dymag - OMG that wheel is worth a fortune - no it's not - I will swap it for a something more suitable at no cost to you.......

Any sign that the bike had been raced?  Bolts drilled for lockwire etc? Or is it just a mongrel?

Point is that it will never be 100% original but could be a fun bike and yes it will take time to rebuild and if you don't like it, someone will get a great bike to ride.  I cannot tell you how many bikes I have built over the years and sold almost immediately because I already lost interest in them.  You do not want to become me, but this one could be a fun project to build and resurrect.

I would plow on on an build it as a endurance racer look or other slightly customized look and get your cash back and have some fun building an updated slabbie maybe with newer USD forks.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: canyoncarver on May 22, 2018, 12:59:34
Build it quick as a low buck racer, fix the frame, clean it up a little, bolt it back together and get it running.   You can minimize your time and $ investment and still come out with a bike that will be alot of fun to ride and should still sell easily enough if it's not your thing in the end.    My .02.  fwiw
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on May 22, 2018, 17:41:37
I just got off the phone with my buddy that will do the welding. He love the early GSXRs so maybe not the most un-biased opinion. he has convinced me to build it and do some frame bracing, while the repair is being done. I'm now looking for a junk frame to cut up and brace this frame with like the factory racers
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: teazer on May 22, 2018, 20:02:01
(https://i0.wp.com/tontonbecane.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/suzuki-yoshimura-ama-superbike-1986.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Bu-xDSQDoNY/Viynh_VGbpI/AAAAAAAADj0/NHAAr9r8H-I/s1600/suzuki-gsxr-1100-1986-yoshimura-4.jpg)

(https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/sites/motorcyclistonline.com/files/styles/1000_1x_/public/images/2016/09/tate-casey-gsxr.jpg?itok=GHQEqQm1&fc=50,50)
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: irk miller on May 22, 2018, 20:27:12
Or a good frame so you can use this junk frame for bracing.    ;)
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on May 22, 2018, 20:36:02
I dunno if i'm going to go this crazy but i'm entertaining the idea.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: hooligan998 on May 23, 2018, 01:08:40
Love these old slab sides.  Following.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Jun 05, 2018, 06:39:12
Here is the straw that broke the Gixxers back. Definitely wont be able to keep it under $1000 if i decide to proceed. Dirtbag's part out bikes, they don't rebuild motors. gonna think on it a while before i decide what to do.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: canyoncarver on Jun 05, 2018, 12:38:13
Buggers, well at least there isn't a hole in it.   ;)
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Jul 21, 2018, 06:05:06
Well after thinking about it for a bit, I have decided to proceed. I'm too excited by the potential end result. There's no way I'm going to make my purposed $1000 budget, but if i can keep it under $2000 id be happy. I have started looking for a deal on a 1100 engine, but no luck yet.

I rebuilt the forks, and measured the spring which is about 18". the rebound spring is about 3.5". I'm pretty sure it has a lowering spring kit as the stock spring is supposed to be about 15". this explains why it seemed so low when i picked it up.

wondering if this is a this a desirable mod for this bike or was this setup for a short person?
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: crazypj on Jul 21, 2018, 14:47:30
I can't decide if I should keep the 16" front Dymag, or use a set of Bandit 1200 wheels, rotors and 6 pot calipers my buddy offered up
Do the Bandit wheels and forks, 43mm are way better than the 37mm and rims are wider. That's probably my favorite motor ever but not so much the frame (600/750 Katana is 'better' frame,stiffer and more rigid) The alternators from any of the 'oil boilers' will fit but you need correct drive gear to match gear in engine. Later ones had a better rectifier/regulator but there isn't really anything wrong with early model. . Over charging is more common than undercharging (battery boils dry) It's caused by old connectors supplying wrong voltage to reg. Easiest fix is cut power to alternator and fit a relay direct from battery so you know it's getting battery voltage direct. My bike dropped from 17.4v to 14.2 after doing it (full field at idle is around 17v)
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Jul 21, 2018, 14:59:49
The forks are 41mm on this bike, and i love the ridiculous adjuster on the fork leg so Im going to try to stay with them. After talking to the guys at Dymag they didn't recommend running a magnesium wheel of this vintage on the street. So i sold it to a dude in Japan for a tidy profit that will go back into this build. I picked up the bandit wheels from my buddy in a trade. They're gonna take some work to fit.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: crazypj on Jul 21, 2018, 15:56:06
That's a better setup than the earlier screw adjuster type.  Those shims will be easy to measure and swap.   Cool!
Rumor has it that Suzuki redesigned top end on Pop's Yoshimura's request. You get an extra 500~1000 rpm with the lighter rocker and shim arrangement Had a major issue when valve lift got to high, rocker arm hit edge of ship and spat it out. Only the 600 and 750 ever had -shims, I havent tried retro fitting to 11/1200 head but I have some parts to try. You could fit 11/1200 top end to 750 but transmission would be weak point (1100 breaks stock 5 speed, don't think 6 would last long with extra power and torque?)
1200 Bandit should have 43mm forks? I sold the set I had, they are now on a GS1100 (posted pic somewhere?) Oh, I'm pretty sure I have some 0.5mm OS pistons for 750 motor. Can't remember where I stashed them at present though? (was going to rebuild a 600 motor I have with a 750 top end on it)
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Jul 21, 2018, 20:14:06
If i'm going to rebuild a motor for this bike its gonna be the 1100, or possibly a bandit 1200 motor.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: crazypj on Jul 22, 2018, 01:38:19
7-11  8)
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Aug 17, 2018, 03:14:44
front end sorted out. Took a bit more machining than I hoped for but it all came together. I used the bandit wheels, ebc rotors and original calipers. The rotors needed a bigger PCD, and the ID opened up to fit the bandit wheels. The calipers needed a small washer to center them on the disk, and since I was missing a wheel spacer, I decided to make them all from scratch and delete the speedo drive while I was at it.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: advCo on Aug 17, 2018, 09:23:15
Not sure how I missed this. Following along. One of these came up for sale locally not too long ago and I have to say I was very tempted.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: JustinLonghorn on Aug 17, 2018, 09:26:16
I can dig it.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Nov 03, 2018, 05:36:06
the frame has been boxed in and braced. The broken motor mount is repaired. This frame is a proprietary alloy that is basically 7005. I used 6061 for the braces and 5556 filler rod. The castings were difficult to weld, twice I had something in the casting explode and pop molten aluminum out at me. I want to brace the swingarm as well, but I'm going to wait till its on the road so I can do a comparison. I painted the triple trees with gun kote and installed new bearings. I went through all the bearings in the rear end and cleaned them out and packed with new grease. Its rolling again, sitting on Metzler Sportec M3, which i spooned on sweating it out on the garage floor(I'm a Luddite when it comes to tire machines). Never ridden a metzler tire before, excited to try them out. I'm still on the hunt for an engine.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: Luugo86 on Nov 03, 2018, 17:29:14
Sexy welds
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: pidjones on Nov 03, 2018, 21:32:10
I know nothing about aluminum welding (very little about steel welding). But, as a GoldWing rider, welding extrusions to castings all with different alloys is a bit scary. It took Honda until 2005 (building 2006 models) to finally get theirs right.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: canyoncarver on Nov 04, 2018, 13:55:08
Really nice bracing work.  I'm glad you haven't ditched this project. 
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Nov 04, 2018, 15:30:25
thanks guys. I'm excited for this project to come together.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: crazypj on Nov 05, 2018, 02:12:58
I forgot to answer your question about swing arm being bent if sprocket carrier bearing spacer is left out. Not only likely but common. On later GSXR the welds can/will crack, particularly 2008~2010 which had pretty poor welds . Early models were welded up properly so you can heat swing arm and push it back into shape (only heat bent side near pivot end and use scissor jack with wood block) I had to do one or two at dealer after people got cheap tyre change and spacer 'went missing'. Usually the sprocket carrier bearing was shot as well with wheel 'floating'
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Nov 24, 2018, 01:11:41
The old steer stops were broken off so I turned some bushings and bolted them to the lower triple. i also started on a fork brace/fender mount for the late model fender. Not sure how I will mount the fender and whittle the brace down yet.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: Streetfighterkz on Nov 24, 2018, 14:56:37
Looking good! 

Kinda makes me miss my 89 750....almost.

Later, Doug
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Jan 22, 2019, 06:43:05
I found a Bandit 1200 to use as a donor. I probably paid a little too much for it considering what a turd this thing was; no title, booger welds galore, loads of hacked parts. I was hoping to part out what I didn't need and recoup some cost but aside from what I need there isn't anything else really to sell off.  The engine fired up and sounded OK. needs a clutch bad. It was pretty greasy so i hosed it down with Gunk it and cleaned it up a bit. The 1200 engine slid right into the 750 frame after I took the valve cover and a cam cap, There is loads of room to remove the valve cover to check clearances. I need to sort out the motor mounts, I'm wondering if i should oversize the mounting bolts to remove the slop.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: canyoncarver on Jan 22, 2019, 11:52:51
That's a really sweet upgrade, dropping the Bandit motor in there. 
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: 1fasgsxr on Jan 22, 2019, 13:18:35
Man that Bandit was ugly...
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: irk miller on Jan 22, 2019, 13:54:17
Perfect fit.  Who'da thunk?
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: Streetfighterkz on Jan 22, 2019, 14:17:29
The Bandit is, umm, interesting.  I had a B6 with a B12 engine shoe-horned in it about 7-8 years ago. Fun bike power-wise but someone along the line put a VFR SSSA on it and messed up the rear geometry some. Never did sort the right shock for it before I sold it.

Anyways, Ive heard that the Bandits and Gsxrs use either 10mm or 12mm hardware for the same engine mount depending on model and year. Id go with bigger bolts to take up the slop.

Later, Doug
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Jan 22, 2019, 17:55:28
the bottom rear motor mount is 12mm on the B12 instead of 10 on the GSXR 750. I'm thinking about changing all the bolts up to the next imperial size to remove the factory slop, so 1/2" where 12mm is used. 7/16" where 10mm is used and 3/8" where 8mm is used. It should help tie the engine and frame together better, but i dont know if its worth the hassle. This engine appears to be stock so, all i'm going to do is get an ignition advance, jet kit, and build free flowing pipe and this engine should be making around 120hp.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: Streetfighterkz on Jan 22, 2019, 20:28:16
changing all the bolts up to the next imperial size to remove the factory slop, so 1/2" where 12mm is used. 7/16" where 10mm is used and 3/8" where 8mm is used.

From what I remember the Kosman HD motor mounts for the Kzs use SAE bolts for a more snug fit and requires reaming the holes in the cases....but my memory tends to be wrong from time to time.

Later, Doug
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Jan 22, 2019, 22:30:16
yeah thats what gave me the idea
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Jan 25, 2019, 06:08:57
Good news is the engine is bolted in. I had to make 1 custom bolt but used stock for everything else.  Bad news is through my ingenious frame bracing I have painted myself into a corner. Im going to use the stock bandit carbs but there is little room for an air filter. Suggestions?
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: Brodie on Jan 25, 2019, 06:17:27
What about a custom plenum that take a thin panel filter?
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: 1fasgsxr on Jan 25, 2019, 10:22:09
Yup...time to make your own.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: crazypj on Jan 25, 2019, 19:09:37
Well insulated plenum on top of motor and ram air scoops out the front  ;) If you don't have 43mm forks use the Bandit ones. Check the wheels as well, they may be 1/4"~1/2" wider than what your using. Either way, Bandit forks are worth a few hundred bucks to fit on older GS 1000~1100, as are the wheels as an upgrade

 
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Jan 25, 2019, 22:38:02
I like the ram scoop idea....  I think I will make a plenum with a big filter under the gas tank as it will be the easiest route to get this bike on the road.
I already am using bandit wheels, with the stock GSXR forks. the forks I have are freshly rebuilt and ready to go so I'm going to use those right now. The ones that came on the donor are pitted and have road rash.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Jan 26, 2019, 07:28:45
can anybody point me to info on building a functional airbox, intake size calculators etc...?
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: Turnturtle on Jan 26, 2019, 10:32:35
Take a look at ncologerojr's airbox thread from 2014.
http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=60747.0
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Jan 26, 2019, 18:41:48
thanks for that. some good ideas there.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: hooligan998 on Jan 28, 2019, 00:36:12
Guess if you're gonna build a custom intake, you may as well turbo charge it.   ;D
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Jan 28, 2019, 03:10:51
Guess if you're gonna build a custom intake, you may as well turbo charge it.   ;D

I like the way this guy thinks
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Jan 28, 2019, 19:14:34

I have tried searching and I keep finding differing info. Does anyone know what size front master cylinder would be on this thing with stock calipers? It came with a 14mm MC. I bought a rebuild kit and the kit is too big. I have seen some master cylinders listed for this bike as being 5/8"

I'm not sure what size MC bore to use
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: Streetfighterkz on Jan 28, 2019, 23:29:17
5/8 seems to be standard for dual 4-piston and 6-piston calipers. That being said...quite a few guys over on the Zrx Owners forum are switching to a 14mm Ex500 brake master for better feel.  Theyre also switching to Nissin or Tokico 4-piston calipers for easier bleeding and less weight than the Tokico 6-pistons provide.

Later, Doug

Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Jan 29, 2019, 05:59:49
So it looks like K&N can make me a custom filter for a reasonable price. The recommended filter length is 3" I would go to 2.25" which is a 30% reduction in filter surface area. The end of the pod would only be 2" from the bell mouth. Im worried this wouldn't flow correctly. how much space do you need from the end of the pod to the bell-mouth?
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Jan 31, 2019, 03:29:50
Brakes refinished and rebuilt with new EBC pads, Gun Kote, and unnecessary safety wire.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: jordandogtown on Jan 31, 2019, 15:00:34
Is that regular off the shelf gun cerakote? I've always liked the finish and wondered how it'd work on some motorcycle parts
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: canyoncarver on Jan 31, 2019, 16:13:40
Neat Gun Kote.  I have a strong suspicion this won't actually be a "dirtbag" build...     ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Jan 31, 2019, 16:36:50
Is that regular off the shelf gun cerakote? I've always liked the finish and wondered how it'd work on some motorcycle parts

Its Gun Kote from KG Industries its a type of epoxy paint. Nearly impervious to solvents once you bake it. you can shoot brake cleaner right at it and it wont do anything.

Neat Gun Kote.  I have a strong suspicion this won't actually be a "dirtbag" build...     ;D ;D ;D

look at how rusty the rotors are! Im trying here, it just so hard not to make things pretty! ;D
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: jordandogtown on Jan 31, 2019, 16:46:40
I dig it. And always a fan of extra safety wire
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Jan 31, 2019, 17:37:58
I talked to Dale Walker at Holeshot Preformance about the filter situation, he thinks a shortened pod filter would work just fine as it will have 1.5 times the surface area of the stock filter. K&N told me 4-6 weeks to receive a quote and then another 4-6 weeks to receive the filters. I'm thinking about cutting the filters down and gluing on my own endcaps.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: 1fasgsxr on Jan 31, 2019, 18:07:49
Make one out of an old k&n or something
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: canyoncarver on Jan 31, 2019, 19:05:23
I talked to Dale Walker at Holeshot Preformance about the filter situation, he thinks a shortened pod filter would work just fine as it will have 1.5 times the surface area of the stock filter. K&N told me 4-6 weeks to receive a quote and then another 4-6 weeks to receive the filters. I'm thinking about cutting the filters down and gluing on my own endcaps.

I enjoyed talking to Dale a few times when I was tuning his kit for my ZRX.  He's been great for support and tuning. 
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Feb 06, 2019, 17:24:49
filters trimmed to length. I'm going to make an endcap out of aluminum, but I'm not sure what glue to use. liquid nails?
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: canyoncarver on Feb 06, 2019, 18:11:54
I'd likely go with a two part epoxy.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: Popeye SXM on Feb 06, 2019, 19:07:34
Epoxy will stick well to the aluminum, just rough up the surface first. Love the work to the frame, should be a great ride with the B12  :)
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: irk miller on Feb 06, 2019, 20:37:22
West Systems G/Flex.  I promise you, once you use the stuff you will search for other things to use it on.  It's a wonderful plastics repair medium, too.  I repaired a fuel leak on a metal dual sport tank 2 years ago and it's still leak free.

--or--

3M 08101 Structural Adhesive
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Feb 07, 2019, 03:18:54
Thanks on the tip for g-flex. I was wondering about a glue that is vibration resistant. that will work perfectly.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Feb 07, 2019, 06:52:13
the stock B12 coils appear to be in good shape and have been proven to work. I also have these accel coils, but they need new wires. what should I run?
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Feb 11, 2019, 16:41:58
Is there any good reason why the GSXR rear caliper is fully floating and the torque arm mounts to the frame? seems like a lot of complexity just to have the caliper move with the suspension. I want to use the bandit rear caliper hanger to get the caliper over the disk properly(gsxr is for bigger diamter disk), but the bandit mount is not fully floating so I would need to weld a torque arm mount on the swingarm, or machine a bronze sleeve and bushing for the bandit mount.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: irk miller on Feb 11, 2019, 21:32:23
It's not hung on the axle with a stay near the pivot of the swingarm?
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Feb 12, 2019, 00:09:28
The caliper is hung on the axle and the torque arm bolts to the frame, so the caliper pivots on the axle with the swingarm moves. Usually the torque arm is mounted directly to the swing-arm so it doesn't have to pivot, which is what i think I will do. easier to weld a mount than machine a bunch of parts. I still cant figure out why they would design it like this. Perhaps is a suspension loading thing.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: irk miller on Feb 12, 2019, 00:54:05
Seems odd for sure. Maybe it increases braking as the bike sags with stop.  Funny thing, though:  It's a stay if it's mounted on the swing arm.  It's a torque arm if it's mounted to the frame. 
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: teazer on Feb 12, 2019, 11:19:04
Floating calipers are the bees knees because they separate the forces of suspension and braking.  It's a common modification on race bikes and rare on street bikes.  I don't remember seeing that on any street bikes, so yours may have been modified.  I just remembered.  KR1S Kawasaki is like that.

Do you have pictures of yours
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: Streetfighterkz on Feb 12, 2019, 14:40:25
I don't remember seeing that on any street bikes, so yours may have been modified.

My 89 Gsxr750 had the same setup. Definitely came from the factory that way. I think all the oil-cooled Gsxr750/1100s are like that.

Later, Doug
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: canyoncarver on Feb 12, 2019, 16:47:12
Pics please.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Feb 12, 2019, 16:47:18
I don't have any pics because its disassembled right now. here are some examples.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: canyoncarver on Feb 12, 2019, 16:48:32
6 seconds....that was fast...   :)
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: Streetfighterkz on Feb 12, 2019, 17:11:03
Not mine as I sold mine a few years ago. You can see the access hole in the frame about 4 below the swingarm pivot bolt.

(https://i0.wp.com/www.bike-urious.com/wp-content/uploads/Suzuki-GSX-R-750-Slingshot-Right-Side-1.jpg?fit=881%2C481&ssl=1)

Later, Doug
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: teazer on Feb 12, 2019, 19:24:34
I had forgotten that they were floating. 

Somewhere here I have the rear torque arm for a KR1S that I bought at a wreaker (breakers) to use on a vintage CB77 racer.  Here's a KR1S picture
(https://mcn-images.bauersecure.com/upload/262825/images/01Kawasaki-KR-1S.jpg)

Perfect for a quiet afternoon commute......
 
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: jpmobius on Feb 12, 2019, 20:37:43
I still cant figure out why they would design it like this. Perhaps is a suspension loading thing.

Indeed.  The idea is to remove the impact of suspension motion from the brake action.  If you imagine the wheel locked by the brake, the bike not moving, and the suspension moving up and down, you will see that the contact patch of the tire actually moves back and forth very slightly.  This is because the whole assembly is rotating around the swing arm pivot.  This adds and subtracts very slightly from the action of the brake as the suspension moves, making the brake slightly more and less effective.  How important this is no doubt depends on the aptitude of the driver.  For most of us, evidently this is so minor that it need not be addressed, but for the ultra skilled, getting out that last little bit of performance likely is of some use.  Although the value of the back brake certainly is quite small when you unload the back of the bike when braking hard, that same unloading makes controlling whether the wheel locks or not a very sensitive process, so adding that little refinement may be of use to some riders.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Feb 14, 2019, 07:06:20
I cut some K&N filters down and needed a new endcap. I had wanted to try this process for a while to see if it would work with wood. Drew some parts up and routed a die. I used .040" 3003 which I annealed. First attempt was with douglas fir and it was too soft so it didn't give it very good definition, plus i didn't  leave enough gap to allow for the metal to buckle around the perimeter. Chopped off the extra and pressed them again this time with a die made from oak. You can see the difference in the side by side photo. came out great and cost me almost nothing to make. I will definitely be using this process in the future!
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: pidjones on Feb 14, 2019, 07:15:00
Looks great, but you need your logo in the next one. How did you trim it?
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: irk miller on Feb 14, 2019, 08:02:20
I'm totally doing this to make a box for my chopper.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: stroker crazy on Feb 14, 2019, 08:12:34
Nifty!
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: advCo on Feb 14, 2019, 09:10:04
Very cool. I'd been playing around with this same method to make some parts for the Bus project. I 3D printed a stamping die but even on full fill the PLA wasnt dense enough for a small stamped area.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: jordandogtown on Feb 14, 2019, 09:28:14
Genius. Looks OEM (or better) too
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: Maritime on Feb 14, 2019, 09:33:20
Very cool. I'd been playing around with this same method to make some parts for the Bus project. I 3D printed a stamping die but even on full fill the PLA wasnt dense enough for a small stamped area.

Would ABS be stronger?
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: irk miller on Feb 14, 2019, 09:35:56
Would ABS be stronger?
Stronger, but flexible.  Strength isn't the issue. Hardness is.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: advCo on Feb 14, 2019, 09:41:34
Stronger, but flexible.  Strength isn't the issue. Hardness is.

Yep, it was a simple enough shape I could carve it out of oak no problem. I was also just using my bench vise to press it, which didn't really have enough force either.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: Maritime on Feb 14, 2019, 09:49:05
Stronger, but flexible.  Strength isn't the issue. Hardness is.
Gotcha, density and hardness. Makes sense fir sucked and oak worked well.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: SONIC. on Feb 14, 2019, 11:16:19
Very Nice!
Epoxy them on and they look like new.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: canyoncarver on Feb 14, 2019, 12:39:48
Damn, I need to steal that diy press setup...  Very cool.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Feb 14, 2019, 13:56:52
Very clever, nicely done!
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: teazer on Feb 14, 2019, 14:09:40
That's really well done.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: trek97 on Feb 14, 2019, 20:02:50
(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/11494-200816163635.png)
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: hooligan998 on Feb 15, 2019, 00:24:23
Damn that's sweet.  Gotta get me a press.  So much you can do with them.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Feb 15, 2019, 12:16:51
Looks great, but you need your logo in the next one. How did you trim it?
Open throat shear
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Feb 15, 2019, 12:20:34
Very cool. I'd been playing around with this same method to make some parts for the Bus project. I 3D printed a stamping die but even on full fill the PLA wasnt dense enough for a small stamped area.


If youre on Instagram check out 3d_magic_mike he has some crazy ideas about using 3D printing, and where I got this idea from. He 3D prints a die with PLA and leave the back open so he can pour resin in to make it hard. Hes stamping some pretty complex stuff and getting amazing results
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: advCo on Feb 15, 2019, 13:22:33


If youre on Instagram check out 3d_magic_mike he has some crazy ideas about using 3D printing, and where I got this idea from. He 3D prints a die with PLA and leave the back open so he can pour resin in to make it hard. Hes stamping some pretty complex stuff and getting amazing results

Very cool. I hadn't thought of that. I just checked out his account, he really is doing some cool stuff. I will have to use this method in the future, thanks for the link.
Title: Re: Dirtbag Oil-Boiler
Post by: doc_rot on Feb 15, 2019, 21:14:13
Ive been refurbishing this sweet stainless Yoshimura duplex. The slip fit collars were seized on the primaries and I broke two of them trying to get them off. I think its because they were aluminum and they corroded badly. I remade the collars in mild steel out of some scrap I had. I wire wheeled the whole header and then brushed it with some 220 to remove the blotches. It had some super tough corrosion on it from the pipe wrap. I need to add about an inch to the primaries to make this 750 header fit the B12 engine. It took some amateur bashing to get the dent out of the collector but it actually looks OK. The primaries and collector are the same diameter as the stock bandit header and after talking to Dale at holeshot this header sounds like it will work well with the jet kit and ignition advance I picked up.