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Blood Sweat Tears and Grease => Projects => Cafe Racers => Topic started by: ZenMoto on Jan 11, 2018, 03:18:01

Title: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Jan 11, 2018, 03:18:01
Hey guys,
I'm new to the forum, but have been riding and wrenching on bikes since I was 7 ...and I'm 45 now ...so DAMN, that's a long time.

I recently acquired a pretty clean 1976 Honda CJ360 and fell in love with the idea of doing something custom with it. I'm a designer by trade, so I have some fun ideas for a clean build. I thought I would start a thread here to keep track of my progress.

Anyway, here's the bike as it was when I picked it up.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-GDL8dg8/0/1adb49ee/L/stock_02-L.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-bvRq7Zc/0/16ea08e8/L/stock_01-L.jpg)

It looked decent, but had been lightly crashed, had a head gasket leak, and frozen carbs from sitting for several years ...the tank was ruined from rust as well.

First things first, I bought a rebuild kit for the carbs and tore into them. I was fortunate that the diaphragms were both in excellent shape, so it was just a matter of cleaning everything out and replacing O-rings, etc. ...almost as good as new.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-BJqjfW8/0/804501fe/L/carbs_01-L.jpg)

Next I started tearing the thing down, making note of all missing, bent, or broken pieces I would later need.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-8Nt48Xx/0/29c8fe0b/L/progress-L.jpg)

I was able to find a decent CB360 tank that had the logo mounts bondo'd over, so I'm in the midst of cleaning it out and prepping it for paint, but right off the bat, what a difference it makes in the lines of this bike ....I like it!

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-G3n6Bc9/0/f949420b/L/profile-L.jpg)

My plan for the bike involves painting the engine rather than polishing the covers, and I'm shooting for HRC gold, but getting the color right can be a trick. ...until I removed the stator cover and found that the upper half of the crank-case is, for some inexplicable reason, factory painted that color inside ...and it looks AMAZING in person. Now I KNOW I'm going to paint the engine this color!  :)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-H8Vk9pG/0/b3482341/XL/eng_01-XL.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-5vBsXkb/0/68ea7275/L/eng_02-L.jpg)

I have no idea why it's painted that color, I've seen several of these torn down and never seen one that wasn't just silver (bare aluminum) ...has anyone else? Seeing it in person, it's clear this isn't some old rattle-can job that wore off on the outside, it's really stunning.

Anyway, that's all I've got at the moment. Between my boy's Scouts, my girl's gymnastics, and my pesky job, there's little time to work on it, but I'm doing my best. ...I haven't even had a chance to fire up my new welder yet!  lol

Cheers.

Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: Tim on Jan 11, 2018, 09:53:15
Welcome to the site!  Glad you found us.

I have no idea about the coating under the stator cover, but perhaps it has something to do with the fact that oil sits in that area.

Nice choice on the tank - I've always preferred the older exposed chrome gas cap Honda tanks to the flip-lid style.
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: irk miller on Jan 11, 2018, 10:10:36
Love it, my man. 
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: trek97 on Jan 11, 2018, 22:35:26
Welcome to DTT.
and yep my 76 cb360 is same.

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/11494-110118203248.jpeg)
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Jan 12, 2018, 01:59:52
Thanks for the welcome reception.

And thanks for posting that Trek97, I've never seen it before but I guess that's just the way they are.  :o

I made a little bit of progress tonight; managed to get the engine out of the bike and began the tear down.

Overall the engine looks good so far, though I'm not thrilled at these cam-followers; I'm not sure what caused this scoring, but I'm thinking I should polish it out or look for replacements.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-L8h5FQZ/0/abf01f3f/X3/2018011121251771-IMG_3867-X3.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-9xTKW8L/0/4c23b91d/X3/2018011121251771-IMG_3866-X3.jpg)

At least the cam lobes look clean. ...there is some minor wear on the bearing surface, but I can't feel it with my fingernail, so I'm hoping it's nothing to worry about.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-fvqSQ6c/0/19ecddd1/X3/2018011121251771-IMG_3872-X3.jpg)

I won't get to pulling the cam out until Sunday at the earliest, so I don't know what the journals look like. If the valve cover is an indication, I think we'll be in decent shape.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-CTxSF3g/0/7c2b8548/X3/2018011121531708-IMG_3874-X3.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-W6NLz8c/0/6e782db3/X3/2018011121531708-IMG_3873-X3.jpg)

Last thing, to take a break from getting covered in oil, I cut down the front fender (with it's broken bracket) to see how it looks. Not sure if I'll use the stock fender or not (I can weld the bracket / brace) as the CJ has a creased fender that may not work with the softer lines of the CB tank. ...we'll see.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-RR534H8/0/474cafca/X3/2018011121251771-IMG_3878-X3.jpg)

What do people usually use for a donor fender to make nice round one? Is there an off-the-shelf fender blank that is good for cutting to shape?

Thanks.

Title: Need some advice...
Post by: ZenMoto on Jan 16, 2018, 00:20:21
Hey guys, trying to make some progress getting this engine torn down and I've run into a small snag. Removing the head from the barrel there are 8 crown nuts in the head that have to be removed, then there are two 6mm bolts, one next to each spark plug port. ...but I can't get a socket or a wrench on them as they are just about up against cooling fins:

Right side:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-PcSJvxf/0/db011d90/X3/2018011520100834-IMG_3938-X3.jpg)

Left side:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-HLLtSjM/0/9f50a82e/X3/2018011520100834-IMG_3939-X3.jpg)

10mm socket in place:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-96hNvhn/0/01dae997/X3/2018011520100834-IMG_3940-X3.jpg)

I can *kinda* get a 10mm wrench on it, but it's right up against the fins itself and I'm worried about rounding the head if I attack it at an angle.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-wVxphSw/0/24db48be/X3/2018011520100834-IMG_3941-X3.jpg)

If nobody has some good advice, my plan is to get the dremel and carefully grind out some clearance for a socket into the offending fin.

Anybody have some sage advice?  :)

Thanks.

Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: MiniatureNinja on Jan 16, 2018, 01:06:27
My upper case on my cb is that same burnt oil golden color too, found it odd as well the first moment I saw it. As for the head bolt, man that's strange I don't remember mine being inaccessible at all, but they are now all socket bolts, so I can't check clearance. A good quality 10mm open end should work, cheap ones can be out of tolerance and round the ends
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: irk miller on Jan 16, 2018, 01:28:50
You can grind a little away from the socket, or grind a little away from the fin.  I would probably do the latter.
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Jan 16, 2018, 02:04:57
Thanks guys. ...I think I may just grind off a bit of the fin to make clearance ...then clean up the grind once the head is off.

Onward and upward!  :)
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: Sonreir on Jan 16, 2018, 10:37:12
Following along.
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: crazypj on Jan 16, 2018, 15:34:58
Only the top case is painted, hot oil make silver paint change colour.
Get a 1/4" drive set from Lowes for 'pretty cheap' or even just get 1/4" drive 10mm long socket and 4"~6" extension, no need to grind on anything plus it's way easier to get cam bolts torqued up properly later on
Cam bearings and cam looks perfect, the spalling is a manufacturing fault and not related to oil feed (although it's a REALLY good idea to do all the oil mods while you have it in pieces. What are you doing with stock CJ tank or is it already sold?
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: irk miller on Jan 16, 2018, 15:38:22
Only the top case is painted, hot oil make silver paint change colour.
Get a 1/4" drive set from Lowes for 'pretty cheap' or even just get 10mm long socket and adapter, no need to grind on anything
Are you seeing the pic?  His cast is off somehow.  There's isn't clearance between the screw head and fin to fit a socket or wrench.
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: crazypj on Jan 16, 2018, 15:40:03
Yes there is, the counter bore for bolt head doesn't hit fin although right side is real close
Thinwall socket is all you need as max torque is only 9ft/lb (although they are almost always tightened to 12~14ft/lb)
1/4 drive long socket  with extension is also the easiest way to 'not fuck up' cam bolts
Sorry for all the edits, grandson pulled the 'H' hey off laptop keyboard so it doesn't always work and I rarely notice until after I post something
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Jan 16, 2018, 20:32:10
Thanks for the tip(s). I'll take a look at Lowe's and see if they have any thin wall sockets; I have lots of tools, but nothing that will fit over that bolt without hitting the fins.

...I guess I need to do a search on 360 oil mods, eh?
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: crazypj on Jan 16, 2018, 20:36:10
...I guess I need to do a search on 360 oil mods, eh?

yup, guess you do.
If you hang on Trek will probably post all the links for you  ;D (or you could find his 360 blog, it's all there)
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Jan 16, 2018, 21:18:00
What are you doing with stock CJ tank or is it already sold?

I have the tank, gas-cap lid, etc. sitting in a box in the garage. The whole bike was painted brownish red, over the stock color (which may have been a similar burgundy color) by a previous owner, but I'm not using these parts. They're dry and sitting in a box until I decide to start parting bits out.

If there's anything you're interested in from a CJ360, let me know. ...not much is being reused.

Also interested in what people use for fender blanks (front & rear) to cut down to size. The OE CJ fender has creased edges running lengthwise and I'm not sure I'll like that look on the front, and certainly wont' match it on the rear; looking for something with a smooth, round profile. :)

Thanks again guys.
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: crazypj on Jan 16, 2018, 21:27:36
CJ fender won't work,  I used part of one plus a Maico Enduro one on one of mine. ( had a Maico 490 MX/Enduro Alpha 1 at the time with a few 'modified' parts, 130mph  MX bike isn't sensible , even by my standards ;) ) May be easier to adapt something completely different or get hold of some CB parts?
I'll PM you about tank
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Jan 17, 2018, 01:07:41
Thanks for the great info PJ.

Good news on my front though, after taking crap from a buddy for "having every damn tool in the world" and not being able to remove the head, I dug into the old toolbox and put this together:

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-Png8xcV/0/28344f4b/X3/2018011620381469-IMG_3964-X3.jpg)

Worked a treat on those two 6mm bolts.

The rest of the head & barrel removal went smooth as silk.

Dirty valves, but everything looks okay so far.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-P57NBmt/0/b534068a/X3/2018011620323817-IMG_3946-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-2zCCmrn/0/1b9d4c72/X3/2018011620323817-IMG_3945-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-5QdzcjC/0/8c596a83/X3/2018011620323817-IMG_3952-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-dT99h29/0/ed106c10/XL/2018011620323817-IMG_3951-XL.jpg)

You can see evidence that the cam chain tensioner needs replacing; luckily, the chain itself looks no worse for the wear:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-2HzvVqV/0/5d0f35e5/XL/2018011620323817-IMG_3953-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-8QFwtj7/0/481d550b/XL/2018011620381469-IMG_3963-XL.jpg)

Pistons & rings look great, and the bores are mirror smooth (no burrs or scarring of any kind).
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-sLXz64z/0/a73af087/XL/2018011620371671-IMG_3955-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-h5Wrvt7/0/30cfeb42/XL/2018011620371671-IMG_3956-XL.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-RNhwvFL/0/de73ca69/XL/2018011620371671-IMG_3959-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-Pppbc56/0/99be62cc/XL/2018011620371671-IMG_3961-XL.jpg)

Lastly, for this installment, the cam journals all look pretty decent:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-54Wwzzb/0/5878b9ad/XL/2018011620381469-IMG_3965-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-NDz9BD4/0/c796c3fa/XL/2018011620381469-IMG_3966-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/CJ360/i-CnJQJBM/0/1b5005ac/XL/2018011620381469-IMG_3967-XL.jpg)

Not sure I'll get much else done this week as we're off to San Diego for another kid-related sports tournament!  lol

Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: crazypj on Jan 17, 2018, 10:10:54
Cam journals look good. You can see the 'witness marks' are from startup as they are only in the bottom and not full semi-circle,te oil 'floats' the cam away from bearing surface when running. Bore needs 'glaze busting' but looks good. You can do it by and with  some ~300 wetordry'
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: Sonreir on Jan 17, 2018, 10:36:00
Acetone test?
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: irk miller on Jan 17, 2018, 10:40:45
Acetone test?
I would.  I do every time.   I use alcohol though, since it's not so noxious.
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: crazypj on Jan 17, 2018, 11:29:00
Nowadays I just spray some WD40 down ports and look for 'creep' at valve heads
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Jan 17, 2018, 15:34:22
Thanks again guys; I'm learning as I go here. ...I will check the valves with alcohol and see if there is any leakage. Probably a stupid question, but it is necessary to replace the rings when putting this thing back together?
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: MiniatureNinja on Jan 17, 2018, 15:37:12
Thanks again guys; I'm learning as I go here. ...I will check the valves with alcohol and see if there is any leakage. Probably a stupid question, but it is necessary to replace the rings when putting this thing back together?

if you're honing the cylinder I would replace them.
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: crazypj on Jan 17, 2018, 18:59:51
Just remove top ring from piston and check end gap. If it's within a few thou of max change them, if towards 'tight' side don't bother.
Honda never gave a 'free end gap' but should be around 9~10mm it's an indication of how much tension is on rings when in cylinder
Do the check after de-glazing bores
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Jan 18, 2018, 06:13:14
Well, good news on the valves, I tested them with alcohol and had absolutely no leakage at all. ...OTOH, being a clumsy oaf I broke one of my rings trying to remove them. Man, I was barely spreading it enough to get it out of the groove when it snapped. If there's a trick to doing it, I don't know it!  lol

What do you guys recommend for removing all the carbon build up on the piston, valves, and combustion chamber?
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: trek97 on Jan 18, 2018, 06:50:48
I soaked pistons in Carb-medic for a couple days, and used a plastic brush to clean ring grooves.
You could flip head (valves still installed and fill them w Carb-medic also.
Then pull the valves and wire wheel them clean.

Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Jan 18, 2018, 06:58:18
Thanks Trek ...and don't you ever sleep?  lol
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: trek97 on Jan 18, 2018, 08:34:23
Thanks Trek ...and don't you ever sleep?  lol

Haha yes,  In bed by 9 and up early...Its what old people do.   :P
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: advCo on Jan 18, 2018, 08:43:43
Why do you think the tensioner needs replaced? If your engine # has two punch marks above and below the dash in the number, the factory fix has already been done.


Sent from my iPhone using DO THE TON
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: irk miller on Jan 18, 2018, 08:47:04
Or, since the engine is already open look at the one you have and make sure it's the updated tensioner. 
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Jan 18, 2018, 14:54:06
Or, since the engine is already open look at the one you have and make sure it's the updated tensioner.

That assumption is based on the beating the case has taken from the cam chain:

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-2HzvVqV/0/5d0f35e5/XL/i-2HzvVqV-XL.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8QFwtj7/0/481d550b/XL/i-8QFwtj7-XL.jpg)

Maybe that's normal? ...my first time in one of these engines.

Is this the engine number you're referring to? If so, there are no dots.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-sn7v9gG/1/8d166b84/XL/i-sn7v9gG-XL.jpg)

And this is the tensioner I pulled out:

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-kcPxFxP/0/198bb6a3/XL/i-kcPxFxP-XL.jpg)

I'm not sure the difference between that and the updated one (time for more net research).  lol

Thanks again for all the advice guys. ...which reminds me, what is the trick with the neutral safety switch wire? I couldn't, for the life of me, figure out how to disconnect it and it eventually just snapped off at the post while I was fooling with it. Seems to be some kind of a spring, so I thought maybe it was just pinched in, or wound around the spring ...or something bizarre like that!  :-[
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: Sonreir on Jan 18, 2018, 15:01:39
IIRC, the CJ models all had the new cam chain tensioner. A bit of wear on the inside of the cases in normal to see, but I'm not certain the engineers intended it that way. Just make sure you keep things adjusted properly. Take care of the adjustment every time you change the oil (along with valve clearances and ignition timing) and you'll be good.

The tensioners have a spec in the manual, I think. Most folks get 10,000 - 15,000 miles from a set.
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: irk miller on Jan 18, 2018, 15:16:19
The opening on the curls at the ends of the recall tensioner faced forward where yours faces backwards, and the rubber had a shallower profile.

Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: crazypj on Jan 18, 2018, 23:32:35
Yep, ALL CJ's had the 'new' tensioner.
That wear isn't normal, it's caused by bike never being serviced (probably missed the first one and just got oil change - maybe?)
 You may need to split cases to un-stick tensioner 'horseshoe' severely loose chain damages the pivot so it can't move. I have pics of damaged one somewhere in 'Build to Blog' thread. I used a Firefox add on which was working a few days ago
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Jan 19, 2018, 01:28:16
Thanks again PJ, Iím planning to do a full tear down anyway, so Iíll make sure everything is good to go. Reading up on it, Iíll bet youíre right, the tensioner is probably fine, but has likely never been adjusted.
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: Integra99 on Jan 19, 2018, 07:40:20

I have this issue with my CB400f popped on a new Cam chain but the horseshoe is stuck.. she runs lovely but I will have to split the cases to sort this once it starts to stretch. I'll only do 500 - 1000 miles in a year so it will be ok for a bit I hope.
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: crazypj on Jan 19, 2018, 12:30:24
I checked my CB360's Build to Blog thread, some of the pictures still don't work and some I downloaded then deleted. Photobucket can GFT

Haha yes,  In bed by 9 and up early...Its what old people do.   :P

STFU, your younger than me
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: Turnturtle on Jan 19, 2018, 13:01:00
Here is the link for the cam chain tensioner recall Service Bulletin for your reference.
http://www.hondatwins.net/forums/47-manuals-technical-documents/4382-360-bulletins-re-posted.html
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Jan 23, 2018, 17:14:00
Thanks again guys. Not much to update as it was a crazy busy weekend. ...but I did get to work on stripping the CB360 tank I had picked up. Turns out, what looked like two different coats of blue turned out to be two different coats of blue, over a silver (which I though upon early paint stripping was the base metal) ...over what can only be described as a body filler "dip" ...over the expected bondo to fill in the areas where the logo mounting would be, ...over the original teal-blue color.

Anyway, I should have taken a later photo where I got the tank mostly down to just the "skim" coat of body filler but I failed to take the photo as my arms were shot from scraping, and sanding (seriously, it was like 1/8" thick with this white body filler).

Eventually I gave up and took the damn think to a local media blasting & powder coating shop, and should have it back later today to see what damage was being covered up. ...fingers crossed it's salvageable.   :o

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-HBQMxn2/0/8e2d5748/X2/i-HBQMxn2-X2.jpg)

Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Jan 23, 2018, 22:10:01
Got to the media blaster's this afternoon to see how bad it was.

...not too shabby. Overall, I'm amazed the tank is as nice as it is, and utterly baffled why someone coated it so heavily with body filler.

Raw metal:

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-6DKd6Jj/0/b473809f/XL/i-6DKd6Jj-XL.jpg)

Of course, I felt I should give it a quick coat of sandable primer to prevent it from flash rusting.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-tbPNmLj/0/fcbb8fb2/XL/i-tbPNmLj-XL.jpg)

Slight indentation on this side, but nothing dramatic:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-QqDGxwp/0/cfa70837/XL/i-QqDGxwp-XL.jpg)

This side is basically perfect:

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-TdcdtgJ/0/6ee1656b/XL/i-TdcdtgJ-XL.jpg)

And it's really hard to photograph, but there are a few, very small, dings in the top left region of the tank:

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-2StXcsx/0/dc671cb8/XL/i-2StXcsx-XL.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-jN7jQfS/0/37a3fbbb/XL/i-jN7jQfS-XL.jpg)

Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: crazypj on Jan 23, 2018, 22:38:00
That's in much better shape than I expected after seeing all the paint and primer you had to take off.

Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: crazypj on Jan 23, 2018, 22:39:45
I have this issue with my CB400f popped on a new Cam chain but the horseshoe is stuck.. she runs lovely but I will have to split the cases to sort this once it starts to stretch. I'll only do 500 - 1000 miles in a year so it will be ok for a bit I hope.

 Even then it's not a good idea as metal bits could be knocked off into oil
http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=11736.300
Scroll to post 343 to see what can happen
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Jan 31, 2018, 00:25:20
Hey guys, I've made a little bit of progress since I last posted, but not nearly as much as I'd like.

I got the cases split finally:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-PgfXqn7/0/bdd3e98f/X3/i-PgfXqn7-X3.jpg)

The Cases did NOT want to come apart, perhaps something to do with all the RTV silicon that someone had smeared all around the edges of the case ...but nothing a wood drift couldn't help with.

Good news is most everything looks to be in great shape. The gear shift shaft being the exception. A loose chain, at some point, had done noticeable damage to the left side case and the shaft:

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-9xGKZsZ/0/28d9b0d0/X3/i-9xGKZsZ-X3.jpg)

Enough burring that I needed to take a flat file (gently) to the shaft to pull it through the lower crank case without damaging the aluminum.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-DGBZMKr/0/20a952f5/X3/i-DGBZMKr-X3.jpg)

Not sure how readily available a "clean" one will be, but I'll take a look around (I'll also need the long bolt that runs through the engine, to which the foot pegs attach, as mine is really bent).

Another fun note was that when pulling the oil filter assembly apart, I found this spiral of something trapped in there ...looked like a perfect tiny spring ...except it's aluminum. Haven't seen anything with a noticable gouge in it though, so I'm not too worried about it.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-5qpqxzP/0/ec73e327/X3/i-5qpqxzP-X3.jpg)

Cheers.
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: irk miller on Jan 31, 2018, 01:15:44
The aluminum coil looks like threads from one of your bolt holes.
Title: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: advCo on Jan 31, 2018, 01:55:07
Yep. You can probably just run that gear shift shaft. as long as those gouges arenít in contact with any oil seals youíll be fine.

Could also weld the gouges up and file it down if you want it to look ďfixedĒ


Sent from my iPhone using DO THE TON
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: crazypj on Jan 31, 2018, 11:04:57
Easier to just use as is if it's smooth enough to fit trough seal without damaging seal.
 Fit a piece po plastic tube over shaft after re-assembly, I've used various materials but plumbing PEX seems to come in a diameter that works and prevents further contact if chain comes loose. I've seen 'tubes' fitted to gear-change shafts on a few MX bikes, mainly a Yamaha thing. Maybe I should post the tip on CB350 forums as race 350's are known to pressurise cases sometimes then push seal out of case when they get hot.
Brendon had seal 'pop out' on his CB378
A new 'soft' seal cured problem but in the interim I fitted thrust washer, pre-load spring and tube,.
 Outer cover holds everything in place
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Feb 02, 2018, 03:37:11
Quick question for the hive mind ...what's the best way to remove the main bearing from the output shaft? That sucker is really on there! Thought about freezing the whole thing, then using a torch to heat the bearing, but don't want to damage the bearing (not sure that's a good idea).

Thoughts?
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: advCo on Feb 02, 2018, 12:09:48
Quick question for the hive mind ...what's the best way to remove the main bearing from the output shaft? That sucker is really on there! Thought about freezing the whole thing, then using a torch to heat the bearing, but don't want to damage the bearing (not sure that's a good idea).

Thoughts?

I'd say a 3 jaw puller could probably get it off without damaging anything else, if I'm thinking of the correct bearing.

Why are you removing the bearing? Unless you plan on replacing it or playing with the transmission, you should leave it all together.
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Feb 02, 2018, 14:11:49

Why are you removing the bearing? Unless you plan on replacing it or playing with the transmission, you should leave it all together.

Thanks. ...and because the entire transmission is going to get isotropic super-finished, and I can't leave the bearing on for that process. I'm sure it's 100% overkill, but I'm also super OCD.  lol
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: crazypj on Feb 02, 2018, 17:19:49
Thanks. ...and because the entire transmission is going to get isotropic super-finished, and I can't leave the bearing on for that process. I'm sure it's 100% overkill, but I'm also super OCD.  lol

Isn't that going to be horribly expensive?
To get bearings off, oil everything up real good, and put in a couple of ziplock bags
boil it up in old saucepan
get some 'freeze spray' from janitorial supplier
Remove from heat, unwrap, hold bearing with bearing separator, spray freeze spray into shaft though oil holes and it will probably fall right out
That is the only way I've found to remove the balance shaft gears on various Honda singles without damage when fitting new con-rod / big end bearing kit (they are designed to be a press fit)
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Feb 02, 2018, 17:29:15
Thanks for the tip. Not expensive at all, about $50 for the lot.

I will give your method a try over the weekend. :)
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: crazypj on Feb 02, 2018, 19:29:30
The gear teeth are pretty good to start with, is isotropic similar to micro-polishing?
 Doing the longitudinal areas of gear shafts could probably make things slide a bit easier?
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: MiniatureNinja on Feb 02, 2018, 23:04:47
freeze spray also comes in a can from Loctite
http://www.loctite.com.au/3320_AUE_HTML.htm?nodeid=8802649931777

you can usually find it at a NAPA store
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: crazypj on Feb 02, 2018, 23:33:51
That's new to me. Has it been out long?
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Feb 03, 2018, 04:06:44
I found a similar product at Autozone by CRC, called Freeze-Off, will be giving it a try this weekend.
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: MiniatureNinja on Feb 04, 2018, 14:26:34
That's new to me. Has it been out long?

i've seen it around for a few years (I work at a napa)

I won't hold it against you that you went to autozone Zen...   ;D
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Feb 05, 2018, 00:01:25
i've seen it around for a few years (I work at a napa)

I won't hold it against you that you went to autozone Zen...   ;D

That's good ...I don't think there's a NAPA within 20 miles of here!  lol
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Feb 21, 2018, 23:58:13
Okay ...progress has been really slow. Partly because we're running around for our daughter's gymnastics and me coaching our son's Little League team ...and partly because polishing aluminum is really, really, time consuming!  lol

On that later note, these parts are starting to look promising:

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-dtZvZFV/0/2ef9c313/X3/i-dtZvZFV-X3.jpg)

What else has been accomplished?

I got my head to A.P.E. Engineering and they've already reported back that the guides and valves are tip-top, just needs a basic service, so it's in process and headed home soon. I'm getting ready to send my running gear out for ISF (isotropic super finishing) but have hit a snag with one of the transmission shafts.

Can any of you experts tell me how this outer sleeve is held in place?

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-ZmZMXWV/0/b9767c85/X3/i-ZmZMXWV-X3.jpg)

Is it simply pressed on behind the bearing, or is there a tiny pin staking it in place through the shaft? ...it seems likely it's just pressed in place, but I don't want to damage anything taking it apart. The other shaft I was able to pull the bearing with little effort by freezing the whole thing, then adding a little WD40 and some heat to the bearing while using the puller ...it eased right off.  :)
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: MiniatureNinja on Feb 24, 2018, 14:01:18
my god those side covers look glorious!

I hope to get mine even close to that
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Mar 09, 2018, 23:53:04
Okay, not a ton of progress to report ...but I've been busy.

Finally got all my "black" parts off to the powdercoater and finished polishing the last of the aluminum bits so they're ready for Cerakote when I pick up the first batch. The beauty of doing the black bits first is that I can then Cerakote the fork legs (over the black powder coat) and they will be virtually chip-proof. :)

I should have snapped some before / after, but I ground off the extra mounting point on the left fork leg and filed down the casting seam on both legs then sanded them flush & smooth ...when they get back from powder they should look factory clean. :)

As for the aluminum, since we all like photos, here is the batch, ready for coating. ...man, that little points cover was a real mother!!!  lol

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-R6b75Cp/0/68056447/X3/i-R6b75Cp-X3.jpg)
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: trek97 on Mar 10, 2018, 10:09:42
Nice  8)
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Mar 23, 2018, 21:19:31
Well, things have been progressing slowly, but surely (low on funds).  lol

My parts are still out for powder coating, but I've been working on cleaning up the frame, and designing an aluminum bracket to hold the Cognito-Moto GPS speedometer and some indicator lights (L & R turn + high-beam). Cognito supplies a mounting ring, so I just had to draw something up to mate it to the OE triple clamp. ...the little Honda wing won't be part of the NC program (way too small), instead, I've ordered a factory Honda wing badge that is perfect, so I will machine in a small recess for it. ...I remembered my VFR1200 had that logo emblem and found it on Partzilla for $2.95; that should help keep things looking "factory".  :)

This is what I've got, though I'll wait until I get the indicator lights to finalize those 3 holes then I'll prototype it on the 3D printer. If all fits as it should, I'll have on machined from billet then have it powder-coated with the next batch.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-nmX9qZL/0/f0b7380c/XL/i-nmX9qZL-XL.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-NLdPk9V/0/c051f103/XL/i-NLdPk9V-XL.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-knD7JWX/0/8540f8f6/XL/i-knD7JWX-XL.jpg)

Here's the VFR clamp so you can see what that badge will look like.

(http://moto.zombdrive.com/images1600_/honda-vfr1200f-2013-13.jpg)

Also managed to get all my transmission bits our for ISF finishing today, so I'll hopefully get those back in a week or so. 
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Mar 27, 2018, 23:09:42
Pulled the part of the 3D printer today and test fit everything; looks like it will get the job done. ...next step for this portion is to get the part quoted for CNC and black anodizing. I think it will look sharp when it's all done (I'll probably make sure the turn signal indicators are straight when I do final assembly though).  ;)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-L7PmkbL/0/47bf46cf/X3/i-L7PmkbL-X3.jpg)
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: MiniatureNinja on Mar 27, 2018, 23:41:56
that looks cool!
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: crazypj on Mar 30, 2018, 11:59:35
I'm cheap and just cut up a piece of alluminium angle, can't find picture at present  ;D
Didn't turn out exactly as I wanted but I needed something quick to get bike finished. I'll probably re-do it eventually.
I used handlebar mount holes for indicator LED's
http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=11736.350
Post 361
 
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: advCo on Mar 30, 2018, 13:26:33
Pulled the part of the 3D printer today and test fit everything; looks like it will get the job done. ...next step for this portion is to get the part quoted for CNC and black anodizing. I think it will look sharp when it's all done (I'll probably make sure the turn signal indicators are straight when I do final assembly though).  ;)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-L7PmkbL/0/47bf46cf/X3/i-L7PmkbL-X3.jpg)

Nice, I 3D printed a mounting bracket for the TrailTech on the XL. I planned to do it in aluminum eventually but I printed it high fill and I'm running it as is. The TrailTech is also really light.
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Jun 17, 2018, 22:19:17
Well, it's been a long time since I've checked in, but that doesn't mean I haven't done anything.

Finally got some bits back from powder; the hubs I got a while ago, then sent wheels out for lacing. Before doing that I needed to clean up the original spokes, as I planned to reuse them.

They turned out pretty good, but it was a fair amount of work ...totally worth it.

I went from this pile of rust and corrosion...

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-K8vmVmW/0/334f5f0f/X3/i-K8vmVmW-XL.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-jfzmZp7/0/327135f8/X3/i-jfzmZp7-XL.jpg)

to this shiny mass of polished beauty. 

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wwPnHKn/0/793643ee/XL/i-wwPnHKn-XL.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-9V6wGSG/0/1b261883/XL/i-9V6wGSG-XL.jpg)

The wheels came out beautifully, though my wheel guy had to adjust the nipple angle to make the stock spokes work with the rims I'd purchased. ...I'm still working on mounting the rear tire, as you can see.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-p5LQj8j/0/f421b84a/XL/i-p5LQj8j-XL.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-qfDs9zH/0/73b56330/XL/i-qfDs9zH-XL.jpg)

I also got my polished engine cases back from ceramic coating ...they lost a bit of luster, but I won't have to touch them up every week, so also ...worth it.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-BDhMqVk/0/1798a978/XL/i-BDhMqVk-XL.jpg)

Lastly, just today, I got the call from my powder coating guy that my engine cases were done. They liked how they turned out so much they snapped their own photos for their instagram page. ...I'm really looking forward to getting it back together.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-VsWgS9x/0/bdd67b8e/XL/i-VsWgS9x-XL.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-JwFjvkc/0/5183b9c7/XL/i-JwFjvkc-XL.jpg)

Still so much to do, but it finally feels like I'm making some headway.
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: irk miller on Jun 17, 2018, 22:28:03
Yeah man, that motor is gorgeous.
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: MiniatureNinja on Jun 17, 2018, 22:33:11
awesome! that's a cool color - still jelly of those side covers!
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: Sderbyshire on Jun 18, 2018, 17:31:04
The polished covers are beautiful, and i love the gold engine !

Gets me thinking, is there a gold coloured VHT paint available??

Steve
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: crazypj on Jun 19, 2018, 11:21:22
That 'gold' looks almost identical to the colour the original Honda paint turns mafter it gets hot, oiled and old.  8)   
Kinda like an artificially aged picture of someone who 'went missing' then turned up 30+ yrs later. I like it, not too overdone  ;)
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Jun 19, 2018, 14:35:37
Thanks guys, I'm pretty happy with it.

And you nailed it PJ, it's the exact color I was going for. When I tore the engine down and saw that gold color inside the upper crankcase, I knew that was what I wanted for the entire engine. :)
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: crazypj on Jun 19, 2018, 15:13:31
I guess it's a custom colour then? Sounds expensive but with all the work your doing, probably just another drop in the ocean  ;) 8) I really do like it though. you may start a new trend for 360's / Honda's  ;D
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Jun 19, 2018, 18:21:03
It's not really a custom color, I had selected something very close from Prismatic Powder's online resource gallery, then took that to my powder coater ...that paint was glossy though and would need a follow up application of a matte clear coat, which is hard with the fins (to get even coverage), so they hit up Prismatic for some similar paint chips. Looking at those in the sun, it was easy to pick this one ...a nice low-gloss finish in the perfect color. So not "custom" just time consuming. I'm in no hurry on this build, I just want it right.
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: crazypj on Jun 19, 2018, 19:23:20
I thinkit's going to be pretty awesome when it's done  8)
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: MiniatureNinja on Jun 23, 2018, 22:38:30
I thinkit's going to be pretty awesome when it's done  8)

yea I really love that color, certainly considered the "oil patina" color but stuck with boring ol black.

Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: WhyNot on Jun 24, 2018, 08:47:26
Man, can't believe I haven't seen this thread before.

That engine is great looking, some day, I may get into my CB350.

Really good job.
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Jun 24, 2018, 16:38:53
Thanks guys ...I'm really pleased with how it's coming along ...albeit slowly.  :)

Here's a question for the hive mind. ...anyone know where these go?  lol They were in a bag marked (by me) "Rear Brake Cover" meaning the drum cover for the rear wheel. ...but I'm puzzled as to where I actually got them.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-dxtSZNX/0/7e3af5e5/X2/i-dxtSZNX-X2.jpg)

Obviously they came off the bike ...at the rear brake. Looking through the service manual and the online parts catalog I don't see anything like them, and don't see a place they obviously fit.

OTOH, we finally had a hot day, so I was able to get this tire soft enough to mount without damaging my new aluminum rims.  :)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-FWbCNtS/0/315d3064/X2/i-FWbCNtS-X2.jpg)

Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: crazypj on Jun 24, 2018, 18:19:08
They probably need straightening out? Here's pic of where one probably fits. Larger hole will be shim under operating cam.  I took too quick a glance, they are D shaped for a drum front brake, similar positions for TLS
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Jun 24, 2018, 19:54:27
Perfect, I'll bet you're right.  :)

Thanks PJ, I knew you'd have a good answer.
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Jun 25, 2018, 01:11:22
You nailed it with the front brake mention. They were just in the wrong bag, they were the washers that keep the front pads locked in place ...mystery solved!
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: williamng on Jul 11, 2018, 15:34:20
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-p5LQj8j/0/f421b84a/XL/i-p5LQj8j-XL.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-qfDs9zH/0/73b56330/XL/i-qfDs9zH-XL.jpg)

110/90 on the rears?

Also what size are you running on the front?

Thanks!
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: crazypj on Jul 12, 2018, 13:03:42
On stock rims it's best to use 80/90 or 90/90 front and 90/90 or 100/90 rear. With WM2/WM3 use 90/90F 100 or 110 R. With WM3 F&R, use 90/90 and 110/90
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Sep 24, 2018, 15:18:19

110/90 on the rears?

Also what size are you running on the front?


Wow, I'm really behind on this thread.

I'm running a 90/90 on the front, and I'm using slightly wider than stock rims.

Family has kept me out of the garage quite a bit (the heat over summer hasn't helped any either), but I'm making slow progress and getting the engine reassembled at least.

It's amazing (not really) how many incorrect bits I've pulled out of this engine and replaced with the proper ones so far.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-q6SLM2q/0/1f65686c/XL/i-q6SLM2q-XL.jpg)
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: crazypj on Sep 25, 2018, 21:27:36
When you pull out 1/4" and 5/16" bolts then need a bagful of 6mm+8mm Helicoils you know it's going to be a whole bunch of fun  ;D
Title: Re: CJ360 Build (my first)
Post by: ZenMoto on Sep 26, 2018, 14:09:21
When you pull out 1/4" and 5/16" bolts then need a bagful of 6mm+8mm Helicoils you know it's going to be a whole bunch of fun  ;D

Oh thank GOD I didn't run into any of that!

The engine is actually coming along really well, except one of my rocker arms needs a tap run through where the tappet adjuster screw threads in; it's got a messed up thread *right* at the bottom edge and I can't thread through it (those things are hard). Otherwise, it's going together like a basically new engine should.  :)

Next step will be mounting it in the frame and test fitting everything so I can make final grinds / welds to the frame before sending it out for powder ...then assembly.

It's going to be slow though, my current project budget is $0.  lol