DO THE TON

Blood Sweat Tears and Grease => Projects => Cafe Racers => Topic started by: paddyshepherd on Feb 12, 2018, 13:08:17

Title: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Feb 12, 2018, 13:08:17
Hi I'm Paddy & I'm from the North East, UK.
New member here and a new build too.

I'm currently building an old Honda into either a brat or a cafe racer, probably the latter, but since the base will be the same for both, I'm not stressing too much on it yet.

The base bike is a 1980 CB250 RS - this was the single-cylinder, 4 valve version that they did. I picked the bike up from a guy that works at my local MOT garage. He'd mentioned a few years ago that he had a few bikes that would be ideal for what I'm after. Fast forward a couple of years and I went to his house to have a look. It's been sat since around 2006, outside but with a cover over - so rust wise it's not the best but it's not too bad either. I gave the old bloke £300 and the result was he now only has 36 motorcycles.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4653/40225908661_41985e2f62_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24hCick)

First things first, we needed to see if that old engine ran. Quick check of the bores, some oil down them, some fresh fuel, carb cleaned and a battery - to our amazement it started on the 3rd kick! The best part was, it didn't just start but it ran - beautifully. No coughs, no splutters, it just ran.

Knowing that the engine was sound, the strip down began. The bike was completely stripped to a rolling chassis. Many parts will never see the bike again so a pile of bits now needs sorting through as to what's worth selling and what's straight to scrap.

This is the end result:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4678/25354763327_30f2208c99_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ECvMMR)


I decided that the stock 250RS fuel tank was too modern looking for what I was after, so a tank from a CB400/4 was sourced from good old eBay. Apologies, but it's not the best photo, lighting is difficult in our garage!

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4710/28446977819_053ae1db77_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/KkLcqP)

Next up, I decided that I wanted upside down forks, so I've decided to go with Aprilia RS125 units. After a bit of a cock up on eBay, I ended up winning two auctions, the first for a set of forks, yokes and wheels - the second for a job lot, which includes fairings, frames, swingarms, suspension, wheels and various other spares too. I now have a garage full of Aprilia parts. However, not all bad, as having paid only £58 for the job lot and £66 for the first set of bits, I'll easily be able to make more than my money back which can then go back into the build.

Next on my list is to drop the Aprilia front end in loosely so that I can begin to get an idea of my riding position before cutting the frame - being 6'3" this bit might take a bit of playing around with.
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: The Limey on Feb 14, 2018, 15:36:26
Underatted bikes, and rare now too.  The XL500 motor of then same era is a virtual straight swap, but biazarrely doesn't make the bike much quicker.

I'm liking where this is going with that tank, so I'm in.
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Feb 15, 2018, 09:06:05
Underatted bikes, and rare now too.  The XL500 motor of then same era is a virtual straight swap, but biazarrely doesn't make the bike much quicker.

I'm liking where this is going with that tank, so I'm in.

Thanks mate - I've read quite a bit about the 500 swap. The plan is for now to build it back as a 250 but keep an eye out for a 500 to then do up and drop in.

Yesterday evening I dropped the Honda front end out and loosely dropped the aprilia one in, so that I can get a better idea of my riding position.

Before:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4618/39383534775_4f7ff07109_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/231bUMD)

After:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4757/40236038692_5f20398256_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24iwdv3)

(I really must get a remote flash for my camera so that garage photos turn out a lot better lit. Either that or actually fix our lighting system.....)

The front end sits really nice on the bike. It's also shown me that the original passenger peg mounts may work perfectly for my rearset mounts (shame they're pretty ugly looking). Unfortunately having a 34" inseam prevents me from having the pegs very high for ground clearance.
However, now that I know where a comfortable(ish) seating position is for me, I can now start marking the frame for cutting and de-tabbing.

My plan is kinda as follows:
Cut/loop the frame, get rid of any unnecessary tabs.
Weld in an under-seat electronics tray. This will house a slim battery, reg/rec unit, fusebox and any other electrics. Since the bike is kick-start only and will have minimal electrics anyway, I can get away with a tiny battery (I could probably run it batteryless, but I feel that is only asking for trouble).

I then need to make adapters/spacers for my front wheel and swap the stems from the bottom yokes of each front end. This will mean I can just buy off the shelf Honda bearings for the headstock.

I think I am more swaying towards a humped seat. The bike will never carry a passenger anyway (especially as I'd never get the Mrs on a bike!) so the seat options are purely down to styling. A hump will need to be fabricated such that it suits the line of the tank once that is in its final position. I envisage quite a low profile hump.

I think colour-wise I'm swayed towards a silver and metallic purple kind of thing. It'll quite possibly be a two-tone set up on the tank, with a Honda lettered logo bridging the two colours.

This will be a long old project and I don't expect it to see the road at any point in 2018 - early 2019 would be nice.
However - before anything else, I need to sell some of those aprilia parts before the old man kicks me out of his garage!
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Feb 16, 2018, 14:14:50
Today I bought an angle grinder so the more serious stuff could commence. We started de-tabbing the frame and cleaning up some of the rear triangle. The rearmost seat mount was left on for now because it's a reference point for where I need the frame cutting at the moment. 

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4747/40258405582_8787606fc9_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24kuRp5)


Items like the helmet lock, bodywork mounts and lock stops were removed. A new lock stop will be welded on since the aprilia yokes have the stops at the back, compared to the honda which has them at the front.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4659/40303496281_f511810004_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24ptXhV)


Not a massive amount to show, but it's starting to take some shape now. The rear triangle needs the top bars cutting and new ones put in which will run horizontal, rather than running slightly downwards like the current ones do. I have now decided that I will definitely have a seat hump, though it will probably only be very low profile and may be made as a removable cover revealing a brat seat underneath.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4669/40303489041_9ec89fb445_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24ptV96)



Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: Coopacoopacoopa on Feb 16, 2018, 15:10:42
Great lines to it. That tank just works spot on.
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Feb 17, 2018, 09:28:13
Great lines to it. That tank just works spot on.

Thanks mate - appreciate the words and I think so too with the tank. Will be nice to see it painted!
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Feb 18, 2018, 17:51:39
Not done a lot today (well, not that was worth photographing!)
I cleaned up a few more tabs and took the swing arm off to cut some stuff off there too. Before I did so I laid a spirit level from the crest of the tank down to the back of the bike. Gives a nice idea of the lines and where my rear hump will go. I've now decided I'll run a battery eliminator instead of a battery, so the hump area should be completely empty - instead it'll be used to house a bit of storage space for whilst out on a ride. It probably won't be lockable so it'll have to be for low value items only. The only way I can see it working with a lock is if I had a hinged bit of metal or something with a swivel lock mounted in it, then the hump padding cut around it. To be honest though I may end up with just a fabric hinge in the seat with some clips so that it folds up against the hump and latches into place - a system I've seen on quite a few builds on Instagram and Pinterest.

I think next up I need to get my frame chopped and the seat loop and electronics tray welded into place. Then I can start mocking up for a hump and for a seat. Whilst the frame is with my fabricator I'll probably start to strip the engine down to replace some oil seals etc. The engine ran a charm so I don't see this being a big task.

I think realistically my biggest challenge will be getting the front end sorted out with bearings, stem replacement and wheel spacers etc. I really cannot wait to get some paint on that tank!

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4716/26470066998_22a1c1fa20_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Gk51Hu)
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Feb 19, 2018, 14:41:15
Had a quick mock up on paint on what I'm thinking of bodywork wise. Ignore the white bit!

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4608/26493184858_1ec05975e8_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Gn7uRh)
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: teazer on Feb 19, 2018, 14:52:29
That seat bump looks really small to my eyes.  I would make it longer and taller to better match the lines of the tank.  Then I have to admit that I really like the stock tank on those bikes - so slim and sexy shaped.  But it's your bike so you get to make it look how ever you want.
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Feb 19, 2018, 16:03:30
That seat bump looks really small to my eyes.  I would make it longer and taller to better match the lines of the tank.  Then I have to admit that I really like the stock tank on those bikes - so slim and sexy shaped.  But it's your bike so you get to make it look how ever you want.

Due to the length of the tank and the seat (I'm tall so need some shuffle room!), the hump was always going to be small - I don't want any bodywork past the centreline of the rear wheel to keep visual weight to a minimum. If anything it may get slightly taller and steeper. I hated the original tank - not because I actually dislike the shape, but more just because I thought it was too modern for what I was after. The hump I've sketched on follows a "swoop" from the tank, but I may modify the swoop line since it comes off the tank a little early at present. I need to download photoshop so I can do it properly - on paint if I try to erase anything it removes the background too, whereas PS I can do it on layers instead.

But thanks nontheless for your opinion - I do appreciate anything people have to say, regardless of whether or not they agree with me!
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: teazer on Feb 19, 2018, 20:39:13
Just out of idle curiosity, how do you plan to get around an MOT and Construction and Use regulations?  I thought the UK required rear bodywork to extend to the rear of the rear tire.
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Feb 20, 2018, 03:58:52
Just out of idle curiosity, how do you plan to get around an MOT and Construction and Use regulations?  I thought the UK required rear bodywork to extend to the rear of the rear tire.

You're correct in the C&U Regs aspect, but it's not an MOT issue as well.
However, the C&U gets greyer and greyer the older the vehicle is. The official wording is "as far as reasonably practicable" a mudguard must catch any spray from the rear tyre. A guideline is 2/3rds to 3/4 of the tyre should be covered - by the time I get a number plate attached to the back, it won't be far from this region. I can't see any issues arising from it in my area.

Edit: as a bit more background info, I'm loosely using this article as a guide for my build, since a lot of the bikes I'm taking inspiration from follow most of this theory: http://www.bikeexif.com/build-cafe-racer

So the reason for the small hump is to do with the Visual Weight. I am however, planning on shaping the side profile of the hump to match the squared tank, so the back end of the bike might be slightly more squared off to match the steep sides of the tank.
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: teazer on Feb 22, 2018, 23:45:02
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but that article was a bunch of BS with nonsensical ideas such as "bone lines' which mean absolutely nothing on a bike.

Go with what looks right or balanced to you and if that's big butt or tiny arse, that's all fine.  It's what looks right to you and obviously has to be ergonomically sound and safe.  Some of us lie sixties Tritons with slightly larger seats.  Some prefer MotoGP or Ducati WSB rear ends. The seat hump just has to look like the correct proportions to you.

Many people use a second tank from the same model bike to get a matching back end, but not all tank shapes lend themselves to that approach. I use a combo of CAD (cardboard aided design) and analog photoshop - a print and pencil/crayons and a pack of plain white labels and a large eraser a.k.a. the "delete" function.   
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Feb 23, 2018, 04:42:09
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but that article was a bunch of BS with nonsensical ideas such as "bone lines' which mean absolutely nothing on a bike.

Go with what looks right or balanced to you and if that's big butt or tiny arse, that's all fine.  It's what looks right to you and obviously has to be ergonomically sound and safe.  Some of us lie sixties Tritons with slightly larger seats.  Some prefer MotoGP or Ducati WSB rear ends. The seat hump just has to look like the correct proportions to you.

Many people use a second tank from the same model bike to get a matching back end, but not all tank shapes lend themselves to that approach. I use a combo of CAD (cardboard aided design) and analog photoshop - a print and pencil/crayons and a pack of plain white labels and a large eraser a.k.a. the "delete" function.

Oh don't get me wrong I'm not following it word for word, (hence loosely!  ;D) but I've noticed that a lot of the bikes I have used as inspiration do follow those theories to some extent. I think the reason I like a smaller back end is because I also like the Brat bikes with no hump at all.

Having said all that, I've had a complete rethink on the back end yesterday and had a bit of an idea. It sounds a bit bonkers at first but I plan on using a natural wood skateboard deck, (varnished and polished and trimmed to match the frame width), to form the seat base, hump mount, and back of the bike. I've seen it done on a couple of bikes and for my build it makes sense (being a longboarder and snowboarder, it adds a bit of personal quirk to it too). It's easier to explain with a sketch. It's easy to work with, cheap to fuck up, easy to mount stuff to and fairly lightweight too.

You're welcome to call it out as a stupid idea, but I reckon with the right varnish and finishing touches, it could look pretty cool.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4608/40434916211_943212742e_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24B6vRM)

Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: cb250nproject on Feb 23, 2018, 07:03:52
mate the bike looks really good, I'm running a similar seat also. beauty is in the eye of the beholder mate,if you have a clear idea of what you want she will come out fine.

I'm hanging to see this build progress
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Feb 23, 2018, 10:00:47
mate the bike looks really good, I'm running a similar seat also. beauty is in the eye of the beholder mate,if you have a clear idea of what you want she will come out fine.

I'm hanging to see this build progress

Thanks mate - I've had a look through yours too.

Hopefully we'll be back on with some progression in a week or so, off to France in the meantime. I can't really do much now until I get the frame cut and welded (need the top of the triangle making a bit more horizontal!) before I can start looking at tank mounting and seat unit.

After that I'll move to the front end and the engine.
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Mar 07, 2018, 06:29:32
Back from France now so started making a little bit of progress and mocking up.

I've removed the rear mudguard mount so that I could drop the skateboard deck into place and review the lines of where I want it to finish the back end off etc.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4714/40627383582_3399b97b41_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24U6XGJ)

Roughly where I expect it to sit, just behind the shock mounts with the frame tapering up to it using a triangular piece of plate. That piece of plate will also form the rear seat base (i.e. skateboard deck) mount.


This pic shows where I expect the back end to finish frame wise, and I'll be having the top bar of the rear triangle raised up and shaped so it comes in level with the back of the shock mount where the spirit level is sat. Sent these over to my welder so he knows what to expect when I bring the bike to him.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4704/39774356955_92ebb26a5e_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23AHYB6)
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: teazer on Mar 07, 2018, 23:48:38
It all comes down to personal taste and it's your bike.  To me "Brat" style is going back to a basic standard bike and they don't get me excited, but that's just me.  Lots of people like that look.  I do like your sketch of what you are trying to do.

Do you have a decent welder close to you? It would be possible to modify the frame to make it a flat top leaving the rear shock mounts in place but changing the tubing in front of the mounts. 
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: datadavid on Mar 08, 2018, 04:31:11
Oh no not a skateboard seat!
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Mar 08, 2018, 06:31:34
It all comes down to personal taste and it's your bike.  To me "Brat" style is going back to a basic standard bike and they don't get me excited, but that's just me.  Lots of people like that look.  I do like your sketch of what you are trying to do.

Do you have a decent welder close to you? It would be possible to modify the frame to make it a flat top leaving the rear shock mounts in place but changing the tubing in front of the mounts.

Yeah, I know what you're saying there - I do like brat bikes but it takes a lot for one to really stand out. This won't be a brat, but it will have a couple of small cues from brat bikes (like the seat base), but it will definitely still have a small rear hump and a more café style colour scheme, probably with quite a lot of polished/brushed parts too. I'm kinda seeing it as a combination of styles. Hopefully it'll work out nice in the end. I'm focussing a lot on aesthetics so I'll be making sure it doesn't just end up looking a dogs dinner of parts. It may sound that way at the moment but I've got a clear image in my head of how it will all flow together - it's just difficult to visualise and show when there's only half of it there!

As for the frame, what you've described is exactly what I'm planning on having done. The new top bar will join at the top of the shock mount such that it's perfectly level. I'm lucky in the fact I've got two good friends who are both very good welders. I've said I don't mind how they do it as long as the end result is the same, but I envisage they'll cut the top bar out completely and weld a new one in, which will taper at the rear end to merge with the top of the shock mount.

Oh no not a skateboard seat!

Not sure how that input is helpful in any way, shape or form.
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: datadavid on Mar 08, 2018, 06:46:37
Yeah, I know what you're saying there - I do like brat bikes but it takes a lot for one to really stand out. This won't be a brat, but it will have a couple of small cues from brat bikes (like the seat base), but it will definitely still have a small rear hump and a more café style colour scheme, probably with quite a lot of polished/brushed parts too. I'm kinda seeing it as a combination of styles. Hopefully it'll work out nice in the end. I'm focussing a lot on aesthetics so I'll be making sure it doesn't just end up looking a dogs dinner of parts. It may sound that way at the moment but I've got a clear image in my head of how it will all flow together - it's just difficult to visualise and show when there's only half of it there!

As for the frame, what you've described is exactly what I'm planning on having done. The new top bar will join at the top of the shock mount such that it's perfectly level. I'm lucky in the fact I've got two good friends who are both very good welders. I've said I don't mind how they do it as long as the end result is the same, but I envisage they'll cut the top bar out completely and weld a new one in, which will taper at the rear end to merge with the top of the shock mount.

Not sure how that input is helpful in any way, shape or form.
Ok im gonna be helpful - skateboard seats are a joke, and a very good one! Have your welder friends help you with a sheet metal seat pan instead. Its not like anyone is gonna see that piece of wood under all the padding and leather anyway.
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Mar 08, 2018, 07:49:19
Ok im gonna be helpful - skateboard seats are a joke, and a very good one! Have your welder friends help you with a sheet metal seat pan instead. Its not like anyone is gonna see that piece of wood under all the padding and leather anyway.

See that's kinda where you're wrong. Since the deck is going to form the top of the bike, it will also be where the hump mounts to, where the seat attaches to, license plate and tail light. Looking from the back of the bike the underside will be clearly visible, hence it'll be varnished and polished. It will be visible to those who pay enough attention to look at details and notice that it runs all the way up the bike to the tank.

I'm not using a skateboard deck as a seat base through inability to make a sheet metal one - so there's no need to try and be patronising about it.
I'm doing it through choice - I'm a skater & a snowboarder who happens to be a bike enthusiast too - so if I can combine those hobbies and still build a bike that looks how I want it to then that's what I'm gonna do.

I'm still failing to see where you've been helpful.
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Mar 10, 2018, 17:08:50
So some progress the past couple of days.

I started mocking up the seat base by trimming the deck so it would fit under my tank, so I could get a reference for my fabricator of where I wanted the bike to stop etc. I chopped one end off the deck and made it slightly narrower to clear the tank. Eventually it would be tapered in to match the inwards taper of the frame. Once done, I clamped the deck in place and had a sit to make sure it felt somewhere near. It did.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4790/26861403118_1fb3a6c7e8_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GVDHiY)


Happy with the result, I began to mock up some hump profiles out of cardboard. The plan was I could start developing the hump whilst the frame was with the fabricator. I was quite happy with this one. Very simple and quick, I know, but primarily it gave me an idea of a rough size and profile that would look good on the bike.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4799/40022636514_74f26e6d74_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23YEtt9)

It was only just after this, that I began chatting with my dad and was explaining to him that I'd like to add a slight "ducktail" to the back of the bike, to give a nod to the original CB250RS tail unit. He couldn't remember what the stock one looked like so I dug it out to show him.

Light. Bulb.

Not sure why I'd never thought of it before, but why not simply re-use and modify the stock tail unit. After all, it's already quite square sided so would go quite nicely with the tank. 5 minutes later and some rough cuts made, I had a tail unit I could play about with and enhance, rather than starting afresh. Today I dropped the back end back onto the bike so that I had a bit more reference to the proportions etc with the back wheel in place.

This is what I've ended up with so far.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4776/39837726995_a00baa995c_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23GjLiZ)

Initial impressions are that it looks good. With a bit of work, it could be bang on the money. It's currently sitting a little bit high and a bit too upwards inclined for my liking, so tomorrow I'm gonna smooth off some stuff so that it fits a bit better (at this part of the frame, it's slightly too wide for the cowl to sit comfortably). I'm going to trim the lips of the inside of the cowl and also chop some of the frame. It's gonna be needing cut whichever route I go, so no harm in chopping some bits off now as long as I leave enough on for my fabricator to work with.

So that's that. At the moment it's a complete about-turn and the deck idea may be scrapped (as I'm sure Mr Datadavid will be thrilled by ::) ). I'm gonna keep it to one side for now in case I come back to it but I'm loving the lines with that cowl. Very retro-racey. Let me know what you think!

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4781/40022639114_afee1d6228_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23YEueY)
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: teazer on Mar 10, 2018, 20:15:19
That has some promise.

This is going to sound off the wall, but have you looked at it with stock seat and rear cowl and seen how that might be reshaped?  It might look more balanced.  Just a thought.   Stock is probably too long, but there may be a compromise in there somewhere that would work.
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Mar 11, 2018, 07:21:58
That has some promise.

This is going to sound off the wall, but have you looked at it with stock seat and rear cowl and seen how that might be reshaped?  It might look more balanced.  Just a thought.   Stock is probably too long, but there may be a compromise in there somewhere that would work.

Unfortunately I no longer have the stock seat, I scrapped it as it was ruined but kept the cowl. Annoyingly, the stock cowl, moved right up forward to where the original side trims would meet the tank, was just to say too long, else it wouldn't have needed much modification at all.

I'll report back later today on where I get to!
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: datadavid on Mar 11, 2018, 07:27:00
So some progress the past couple of days.

I started mocking up the seat base by trimming the deck so it would fit under my tank, so I could get a reference for my fabricator of where I wanted the bike to stop etc. I chopped one end off the deck and made it slightly narrower to clear the tank. Eventually it would be tapered in to match the inwards taper of the frame. Once done, I clamped the deck in place and had a sit to make sure it felt somewhere near. It did.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4790/26861403118_1fb3a6c7e8_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GVDHiY)


Happy with the result, I began to mock up some hump profiles out of cardboard. The plan was I could start developing the hump whilst the frame was with the fabricator. I was quite happy with this one. Very simple and quick, I know, but primarily it gave me an idea of a rough size and profile that would look good on the bike.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4799/40022636514_74f26e6d74_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23YEtt9)

It was only just after this, that I began chatting with my dad and was explaining to him that I'd like to add a slight "ducktail" to the back of the bike, to give a nod to the original CB250RS tail unit. He couldn't remember what the stock one looked like so I dug it out to show him.

Light. Bulb.

Not sure why I'd never thought of it before, but why not simply re-use and modify the stock tail unit. After all, it's already quite square sided so would go quite nicely with the tank. 5 minutes later and some rough cuts made, I had a tail unit I could play about with and enhance, rather than starting afresh. Today I dropped the back end back onto the bike so that I had a bit more reference to the proportions etc with the back wheel in place.

This is what I've ended up with so far.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4776/39837726995_a00baa995c_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23GjLiZ)

Initial impressions are that it looks good. With a bit of work, it could be bang on the money. It's currently sitting a little bit high and a bit too upwards inclined for my liking, so tomorrow I'm gonna smooth off some stuff so that it fits a bit better (at this part of the frame, it's slightly too wide for the cowl to sit comfortably). I'm going to trim the lips of the inside of the cowl and also chop some of the frame. It's gonna be needing cut whichever route I go, so no harm in chopping some bits off now as long as I leave enough on for my fabricator to work with.

So that's that. At the moment it's a complete about-turn and the deck idea may be scrapped (as I'm sure Mr Datadavid will be thrilled by ::) ). I'm gonna keep it to one side for now in case I come back to it but I'm loving the lines with that cowl. Very retro-racey. Let me know what you think!

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4781/40022639114_afee1d6228_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23YEueY)
You see! I helped you in the right direction! wood IS cool on bikes, maybe you could take the skateboard and steam bend it into a rear fender? It just isnt very useful mounting stuff on in the long run.
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Mar 11, 2018, 14:22:08
So a bit more done. Not sure if the cowl will work as it's still rather tight.

Lopped off the back end to start with and gently persuaded the back of the outer tube inwards a bit. Taking care to not bend the frame itself.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4773/26879334738_4cdb2c6bda_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GXeBKQ)

I then played about with the cowl lopped the deck down to make a makeshift seat base. Don't worry Datadavid, it won't stay like that. I dropped the front wheel of the 250 in to see how it looked. Happy with the look of it at the moment. Would be nice if I could get the cowl a little lower mind and it needs some shaping work to blend it into the frame. Still think I need the top bar of the triangle raising up to come in above the shock mount.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4773/25879292267_63465579ef_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FqS8Yg)

Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: Popeye SXM on Mar 11, 2018, 16:33:07
I like cowl in the last pic. Perhaps some longer shocks, I like the lines as it sits on the stand but the rear will drop when on it's wheels. Very easy to mock up just change the shocks for timber. Or lower the front end
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Mar 12, 2018, 12:01:33
I like cowl in the last pic. Perhaps some longer shocks, I like the lines as it sits on the stand but the rear will drop when on it's wheels. Very easy to mock up just change the shocks for timber. Or lower the front end

That's a very valid point, not looked at it without it being on the stand yet. Shocks may be an option though as I need to buy new shocks anyway. Still not sure if the cowl will actually work as it's a bit of a stretch to get it to fit at the moment. May have to go for a similar styled, "universal" seat cowl.
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: teazer on Mar 12, 2018, 14:03:32
That tail does appear to match tank shapes rather well. The overall look is not bad.  Slightly longer shocks would help - agreed.

Will an XR500 slip in there to replace the 250 motor? That would make for a fun bike. Slim, light, ton of torque and styled like a seventies single racer.  :)
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Mar 13, 2018, 05:42:32
That tail does appear to match tank shapes rather well. The overall look is not bad.  Slightly longer shocks would help - agreed.

Will an XR500 slip in there to replace the 250 motor? That would make for a fun bike. Slim, light, ton of torque and styled like a seventies single racer.  :)

Yeah, I've been having a look around at what bikes use shocks up to about 50mm longer. I dropped it off the stand last night and it would definitely benefit from it. It would help me too, being 6'3".

The XR500 engine does indeed drop straight in - if you can find one! Certainly in the UK they're pretty rare now, and thus sell for ridiculous amounts of money. There's a local guy that offered me two engines for £300, but they were in tons of pieces scattered around his workshop and the only way I'd know I'd got everything would be to take an exploded diagram with me and piece it up at his shop. Seemed a long process for 5mph, though the extra torque would be lovely. The plan is to keep it as a 250 for now but if a 500 motor comes up for sale I'll jump on it.

In the meantime, I've been invited down to Herbertson Racing's pit garage when they race at my local circuit next month, after asking about the tail unit on this bike, as they'll have it with them: https://rocket-garage.blogspot.com/2014/02/honda-cb-400-super-sport-david-roberts.html (https://rocket-garage.blogspot.com/2014/02/honda-cb-400-super-sport-david-roberts.html)

I think it could work well for what I'm after if I can't make the stock one work.
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: teazer on Mar 13, 2018, 16:13:46
That looks good.  It's an adaptation of a TZ250C/D/E seat. 
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Mar 13, 2018, 16:50:41
That looks good.  It's an adaptation of a TZ250C/D/E seat.

Yeah, I'm thinking a slightly lower, further forward version of it.
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: datadavid on Mar 15, 2018, 08:50:12
So a bit more done. Not sure if the cowl will work as it's still rather tight.

Lopped off the back end to start with and gently persuaded the back of the outer tube inwards a bit. Taking care to not bend the frame itself.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4773/26879334738_4cdb2c6bda_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GXeBKQ)

I then played about with the cowl lopped the deck down to make a makeshift seat base. Don't worry Datadavid, it won't stay like that. I dropped the front wheel of the 250 in to see how it looked. Happy with the look of it at the moment. Would be nice if I could get the cowl a little lower mind and it needs some shaping work to blend it into the frame. Still think I need the top bar of the triangle raising up to come in above the shock mount.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4773/25879292267_63465579ef_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FqS8Yg)
Hell, its gonna look a lot better than my bike🖒
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Mar 15, 2018, 17:42:54
Nothing much done the past few days physically, but I've managed to iron out a few things in my head;


Start stripping the front wheel down tomorrow hopefully.
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Mar 16, 2018, 14:13:42
Stripped the front wheel down today. Managed to save some spokes for measuring but had to cut most of them out. Time to start seeing if these rims will polish up or if they're too far gone.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/815/39949839485_2610a1cbef_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23SenrX)
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: MiniatureNinja on Mar 16, 2018, 14:53:55
That's a very valid point, not looked at it without it being on the stand yet. Shocks may be an option though as I need to buy new shocks anyway. Still not sure if the cowl will actually work as it's a bit of a stretch to get it to fit at the moment. May have to go for a similar styled, "universal" seat cowl.

I say the longer rear shocks will really make the bike
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Mar 19, 2018, 16:49:19
Well, I think I might have just won the bargain of the century award.

So a couple of nights ago a local guy found my aprilia forks on ebay and came to collect them. Obviously got chatting about bikes and he races small capacity bikes. He was interested in quite a few bits of mine so I gave him my number and he said he'd give me a shout if he wanted anything.

Fast forward to today and I got a text off him saying he had some spoked alloy wheels I might be interested in. 17x3" rear and a 17x2.15 front, and already had a brake spacer fitted to the front to suit an RS125 disc brake! Great, I thought, since a 17" would give me much better tyre choice, and with a bit of luck they'd need less work than mine too. I popped round to see them tonight since he's literally 5 minutes away.

Well they were just fantastic, they need a clean but very little in the way of corrosion, spokes all look good and the rear came with the drum brake assembly too. They're both Akront rims so good quality stuff. But the best bit was the price. I offered some of my parts that he was interested in but unfortunately his mrs would have killed him apparently! So instead he asked me for £50. Fifty! I nearly choked! I felt like I was robbing him as I drove away.

but anyway. Shiny things!

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/791/27034165848_4d72094cb9_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HbVaDJ)
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: 1fasgsxr on Mar 19, 2018, 21:49:10
Nice score!
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Mar 20, 2018, 18:38:15
Today we spent a bit of time making the front wheel fit the RS forks.

The wheels were originally used on an MZ 250 race bike - if any of you remember those east german things...
However, luckily there was an off the shelf bearing that fit what we need to suit the MZ hub diameter with the Aprilia spindle in it. I popped by our local bearing factor and they had them in.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/820/27053837368_135ca63865_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HdDZiS)

Unfortunately, the bearing spacer would also need replacement to suit the aprilia spindle. One bearing has a nice shoulder to sit against inside the hub (and due to the larger bearing ID this also now caught the inner race to prevent compression too). We grabbed an Aprilia spacer from a spare wheel and measured it up. It would fit what we needed, but wouldn't fit through the shoulder on the inside of the hub, so it was a handy bonus that the inner race on one side was nicely supported already. We could then sit our new spacer against the other side of the shoulder to support the new bearing at the opposite end of the hub. Christ I over complicated that description.  ???

Anyway. We measured the required depth and lopped the Aprilia spacer down to size and chamfered the edge slightly with the grinder.

All done:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4776/27053836988_36a3fbb7d5_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HdDZcj)

All that was left was to mount the Aprilia disc adapter and disc to the hub and mount it up to the forks!

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/816/40925309191_400d043be5_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/25mqUBa)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4780/40216590694_4dd94a4f69_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24gNxhJ)

Definitely gonna need a better sized tyre than that little thing but it's looking good so far and I should have a good choice of rubber for them.
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Mar 28, 2018, 04:12:14
No visual progress as of late. The bike is currently a unicycle in the garage.

I've dropped my fork yokes off at my local fab shop to have the stems pressed out and swapped over. I've also gave them the front wheel, after deciding I wasn't happy with the inner shoulder - it effectively made one of the bearings defunct as the inner race would end up spinning with the outer race. They're gonna machine off the shoulder to match the opposite side, I'll then pop the bearings back in with a new, longer spacer.

I'm also looking at a re-bore kit with a slightly oversize piston to get a bit more power out of it combined with some carb work and a decent exhaust. I've also started deciding on what electrics will go in, a Daytona Velona speedometer and hopefully a P700 style headlight. I plan on using LED lights to reduce current draw as I'm still considering using a battery eliminator, but may end up with a small lawnmower style battery yet.
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Mar 30, 2018, 08:15:07
So Last night I was itching to get something done on the bike. My wheel and yokes are still with the fab shop so there's nothing I can really do on that side of things, so instead I decided to have a look at the motor.

It's renowned for these engines to strip the threads on the rocker cover bolts, so I decided to crack them off and see how likely it was going to be for this engine to need rethreading.

I vaguely remembered that honda hid two of the rocker bolts under the valve adjustment caps, so first these had to come off:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/813/39289975330_e8c1b6cbee_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22RVoPL)


They came off nice and easy, so we started trying each bolt on the cover itself. The alloy is in pretty bad shape so I wasn't expecting much good to come of this!

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/885/41099144871_587d5e5960_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/25BMRU4)

Before we could think about removing them, the tachometer drive needs removing from the end of the camshaft. This came out nice and easy and looks in good shape. I'll probably get a blank made up for this since it's unlikely it'll get reused (I'm not sure I'm gonna run a mechanical tach)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/786/41099096961_2018dc1853_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/25BMBE2)

Following that, we were able to take the rocker cover bolts out. With a lot of finger crossing, some very gentle persuasion with a 3/8" ratchet, and to my amazement every one came out of the head without stripping anything. Some took a bit of force but thankfully not enough to damage anything. I didn't even need the plusgas!

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/865/26227771707_a5ebf51074_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FXEbLt)

The inside of it looks in fairly good shape. There's a small amount of pitting on the cam lobe, but I'm going to have to inspect that properly and see if it's reusable as it looks like getting a replacement would be nigh on impossible.

I also got this hub cover in the post for the MZ front hub, as a nice bit of finishing. I'm planning on boring the hole out to suit the aprilia axle shaft, I'm also tempted to get a second for the brake side - the MZ hub was originally drum, but an adapter bolted through the centre of the hub has now converted it to disc. You can't really see the remaining drum due to the size of the aprilia disc, but I'm half tempted to get it covered anyway simply because I know it's there. In order to do that, I'd need a hole boring in the middle of it to about 60mm! I'd maybe silicon bond it to the disc adapter though, such that it becomes one piece. Welding might be an option, but I feel it's probably a bit unnecessary for the purpose it'll serve. Should look nice all polished up.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/895/26227774397_fe96e0101d_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FXEcyR)
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Apr 01, 2018, 07:51:01
Little bit of faffing about with the bike yesterday. I offered up the rear wheel to the swingarm and after about an hour of fettling I've decided I'll be better off just respoking the rear hub into the new rim. The MZ rear hub uses a right-hand drive, whereas the honda is left. As a result, the drum brake mounting is all over the place. If I line the actuator arm up, the brace mount is in the wrong place and vice versa. So I looked at the possibility of creating a new bracket for the brace. This would work, but the hub is approx 45mm slimmer than the honda one, so it would need spacing and centralising. FWIW, I'll just save the headaches and reuse the Honda hub on the 17" rim.
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: Pete12 on Apr 01, 2018, 08:35:51
Doing a nice job there Paddy, I'm following along for sure.
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Apr 02, 2018, 08:13:00
Doing a nice job there Paddy, I'm following along for sure.

Thanks Pete, I'm getting itchy feet with it at the moment as there isn't a lot I can do until I either order stuff or get parts back from the fabricators!
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Apr 10, 2018, 09:01:43
So!

A little more engine work done. I've got it stripped such that the head and barrel are off, piston out etc and it actually looks in incredible condition. I'm starting to feel guilty about wanting to overbore it it's in such good nick!

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/867/41320064202_4f6b932bde_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/25Xj8w3)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/783/41320064482_2541ece19c_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/25Xj8AS)

The piston needs a good de-coke but it looks good overall. Lots of parts that need cleaning up externally but the internals are looking good. Time to decide the extent I want to go to if I want to squeeze some power out of it.

In other news, I finally got my stem/yoke and front wheel back!

Here's the Aprilia yoke with the Honda stem machined and pressed in & the new bottom taper bearing installed (I need to do this again, as in my excitement I forgot to put the dust seal on... >:( )

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/879/26491724507_7ce360b440_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GmZ1JP)

Here's the new top bearing installed - the taper race doesn't sit flush with the frame at the top, but the protruding part is covered by the cupped top nut.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/893/40467984665_c24f7d5d72_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24E1ZXx)

& here it is all fitted up. There's still some finishing work to do on the top yoke, as well as replacing the top yoke nut with a better looking one and a smaller washer. I test fitted the bearings back into the wheel so I could mount it up. I still need to make a new bearing spacer for it.

I may see about getting the tank front mounts dropped a little so that the front of the tank sits a bit higher. What do we think? I think it sits a little low at present. The mounts need work anyway as one is slightly bent, so this may be an option. I've also been in touch with Maxton Suspension to see about having the fork internals replaced with some of their race cartridges.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/866/40468327405_a59f012e26_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24E3KQR)


Finally, I dummy mounted the aprilia brake to see how misaligned things were. Thankfully, it doesn't look like there'll be too much work in getting it centred!

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/897/40649519114_5720dd905b_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24W4pPQ)
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: kagraves on Apr 12, 2018, 23:27:48
Awesome project so far! If you ever want some photoshop rendering done to get some of your styling on point hit me up I'm a designer and fabricator over in California. I don't have a bike at the moment as a sold my last one and need to be working on something! I will definitely be following along.
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Apr 14, 2018, 11:57:17
So the bike has just gone over to my mates workshop to get the welding work done. It's getting the rear triangle levelled up, braced and boxed at the back end. It's also getting some tabs welded on for me to fit a splash guard, lock stops welding on, and the tank alignment sorting out.

In the meantime, I'm figuring out the suspension at the front. I got a quote back from Maxton and lets just say their internals won't be happening. Instead, I'm going to kill two birds with one stone. I'm going to swap out the fork legs entirely. To put into context how bad these aprilia legs are, when they're on the bike I can just about bottom them out just by pushing down on them, and I only weigh 75kg... I don't want the bike to be bone shattering, but that's way too soft for my liking.

Thankfully, the aprilia stuff uses a fairly standard 50-54mm top/bottom clamp diameter, meaning I can mount up any fork legs that fit that, and are of similar length. My theory is that I want the forks silver, and to do that it would cost me £150 in anodising. Since I've not done wheel or brake alignment on the aprilia fork legs yet, I'm not losing anything if I swap out the legs, other than a £10 pair of wheel bearings. Therefore, I've got a budget of about £150 for some silver forks in decent condition. In the UK it's easy to pick up a set of ducati monster or older SRAD 750 forks for that price. Finding a caliper for one is slightly harder, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it!


Awesome project so far! If you ever want some photoshop rendering done to get some of your styling on point hit me up I'm a designer and fabricator over in California. I don't have a bike at the moment as a sold my last one and need to be working on something! I will definitely be following along.

That would be awesome mate, drop me a PM  ;D
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: teazer on Apr 14, 2018, 15:37:54
Maxton do make some awesome stuff, but maybe there's a more cost effective solution for this project. Rather than getting GSXR forks and opening another can of worms, what about a set of stiffer springs to fit in those forks? You may need a slightly stiffer damping setting to work with stronger springs but you could save a bunch of that cash for fine tuning once you get it up and running.

And you still need good rear shocks...
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Apr 15, 2018, 09:09:49
Maxton do make some awesome stuff, but maybe there's a more cost effective solution for this project. Rather than getting GSXR forks and opening another can of worms, what about a set of stiffer springs to fit in those forks? You may need a slightly stiffer damping setting to work with stronger springs but you could save a bunch of that cash for fine tuning once you get it up and running.

And you still need good rear shocks...

Hey Teazer. The issue we have is that Aprilia RS125 forks use a rather unconventional system. They only have a spring in 1 leg, and a damper in the other. Each leg on its own is utterly useless, until you put a wheel in and bolt them together. Because of the funny set up, no one does a spring kit, so the only way to really make them good, is to machine the legs and put Maxton or Matris cartridges in them. The Monster 695 suspension was noticeably soft for a big bike, so should be about right on a 250 with a bit of fettling.

Plus there's the aspect of getting the anodising done on the aprilia ones... If I can get forks and axle less than the cost of re-anodising, I'm quids in really.
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: teazer on Apr 15, 2018, 11:18:10
Good point. I was assuming that you could pull the spring and get a replacement, but if no one offers them because the whole set up is a PIA, then it's time for plan B.  I forgot that you wanted the legs silver.  May as well buy a set that's a better match. Agreed.
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Apr 16, 2018, 04:39:24
Good point. I was assuming that you could pull the spring and get a replacement, but if no one offers them because the whole set up is a PIA, then it's time for plan B.  I forgot that you wanted the legs silver.  May as well buy a set that's a better match. Agreed.

Managed to win some Monster 695 forks on eBay yesterday. £103.50 including postage. If the condition is as good as it looks, they're a bargain. Time will tell. I'll get a custom axle machined up on a lathe, since the stock Ducati axle is about £30 alone and will be too long anyway.

Unfortunately for the next month or so actual work on the bike will slow right down since I have exams coming up.  >:(
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on May 12, 2018, 10:24:19
So I've not had an awful amount of time to work on the bike due to it being exam period at University.
Thankfully, however, that doesn't mean there's been no progress.

The bike has been over at my friends garage the past couple of weeks and I've finally got it back. Since it was a no rush job I've just let him have it for as long as necessary so he can work on it between other customer projects as he's just starting out in his own business.

We cut out the top rails of the frame and welded new ones in place, to give the bike a perfectly clean line from front to back. He's also repaired some damage to the tank which was causing it to sit off centre, add a battery tray and some tabs for a custom splashguard that I'm going to have laser engraved. there was a small bit of corrosion on the bottom cross-section of the frame so he's cut that out and welded a new piece in, as well as adding a lock stop for my bottom yoke, meaning I can no longer hit the tank!

So here's the bike as it sits, it looks much cleaner but definitely still needs some longer shocks:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/952/42013049852_600ffec808_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/271xS1u)

Then this panel forms the top section of the splashguard and doubles up as a battery tray. It'll house a tiny AntiGravity 4-Cell Lithium battery:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/966/41157288635_b53dd8e4db_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/25GVS1K)



While the bike was away, I've been collecting some parts for it. I now have a sidestand, rearsets and Ducati front axle, as well as the Monster 695 forks which have now arrived. I'm yet to mount the forks up and see if the axle needs any adjustment, but that may be tonight's job. The forks need a good clean up and a bit of fettling, they look much better in photos than they do in person.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/951/42013049962_0f195dbc51_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/271xS3o)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/980/42057474661_9a520af7cf_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/275txXt)


As an added bonus, a friend of mine messaged me recently to tell me he has a perfectly standard, road worthy 250RS in his garage, and lent me it for a few days to play about on, since I've never actually ridden mine. Goes well but there's room for improvement, but handling wise it was great. Unfortunately the photo is terrible as my phone needs to go in for a camera repair.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/960/42013678322_0540f2da06_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/271B5Qb)

I've got one more exam to get out of the way and then I can finally dedicate some more time back to the bike!



Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: Pete12 on May 12, 2018, 12:07:07
Looking good Paddy. That's a nice clean line between the tank and the seat.
You live in England, Hagon shocks will be the go for you...
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on May 13, 2018, 16:22:27
Looking good Paddy. That's a nice clean line between the tank and the seat.
You live in England, Hagon shocks will be the go for you...

Thanks Pete, yeah I really like the line now, will look much better when I eventually make a tail unit though as at the moment it looks a little front heavy! Hagon's will definitely be considered but I may go for some adjustable length versions.

Last night I took a study break and decided to test mount the new front end and my rearsets.

The forks, as planned, dropped straight into the yokes and mounted up perfectly. Love the look of the silver front end.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/956/27205771337_02df9deb0f_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Hs5FZ4)

No such luck with the rearsets, however. Good news and bad.

I went to mount them up to the passenger footpeg mounts, and unfortunately didn't have a cap bolt to fit the rearsets and the captive, recessed nut inside the hangers. The captive nuts are welded in so I decided I'd just drill them out and use the nut and bolt that came with the rearsets, because I'm just too impatient to wait until monday and get a decent bolt. Big mistake. 

Turns out, the hangers sit very close to the swingarm. THAT close:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/954/41175886915_71beb97424_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/25JzbCK)

That'll be a new set of hangers getting ordered on eBay! Oops. I could helicoil it but I don't really like using them when I could just get a new set of hangers for £20. The good news however, is using the passenger mounts is a perfect position for me as I guessed!
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Jun 01, 2018, 08:29:51
No real updates as of late. I've been taking a bit of time off from things after my exams were over
I missed out on the footpegs on ebay so now considering either re-tapping or helicoiling the footpegs I already have. I'm planning on smoothing them out where the mounts for the front footpegs are as well to clean up the look a little.

I've spent the little free time I've had this week learning to draw on my laptop, sketching some options for rear bodywork. I'll get some pics uploaded later. I'd love to run an underseat exhaust but I think it'll prove messy when maintaining the twin shock. Would probably work much better with a single shock and alloy swingarm, but not sure I want to go that route with this bike.

Also been weighing up my performance options after finding a good deal on a Keihin CR33 carb which may do the job nicely!
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Jun 02, 2018, 14:57:40
These are really rough drawings as I'm absolutely terrible at sketching.
I'm thinking a really dark purple or navy blue with a metallic or pearl finish. Something that looks good in low light but then really pops in the sunlight. I've not yet learnt to replicate even the slightest glossy finish with a sketch right now so ignore the colours. It's more just to get the bodyline right. It's a lot different to I originally envisaged so I'm interested to hear people's thoughts. Obviously bear in mind I'm gonna have the longer shocks to lift the bodywork away from the tyre.

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1760/28645494798_f516b08487_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/KDiDBm)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1747/40710732460_8b15e86df8_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/252t9qm)
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: The Limey on Jun 02, 2018, 20:58:28
You might want the tail a touch longer to keep the plod and MR MOT happy.
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: datadavid on Jun 03, 2018, 04:30:32
You might want the tail a touch longer to keep the plod and MR MOT happy.
Who cares about them boring old peoples? It needs to be a badass coiffure racer!
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Jun 03, 2018, 06:27:48
You might want the tail a touch longer to keep the plod and MR MOT happy.

At the moment, I'm considering mounting the numberplate off the swingarm so that it sits behind the tyre, such that it doesn't effect the bodywork and can easily be removed for shows. From what I've read online, that should be sufficient to count as a splash guard. It also appears that in the motorcycle MOT rules for may 2018 onwards, there's no mention of mudguards or splash guards, which would indicate it's now just a construction and use thing. The regs don't specify an exact amount of tyre to be covered, it just says "as far as reasonably practicable" in my eyes mounting the plate behind the tyre should show that I've tried to subdue water spray.
Title: Re: CB250 RS - Project "Phoenix"
Post by: paddyshepherd on Jun 13, 2018, 16:02:07
So over the weekend I've been doing a couple of little bits. I've not been able to do a massive amount as I've been waiting for a new bank card arriving so I can actually start ordering stuff again. I managed to pick up some bearings for the front wheel locally to fit the ducati axle, I still need to make a spacer so they'll have to come back out, but at least it means I can move the bike without the wheel wobbling all over and damaging stuff. I want to raise the back end approx 50mm, but as the ducati front end is slightly lower already I needed to make sure I wasn't going to make the handling too twitchy. The paddock stand I use is slightly higher than the amount I want to raise it by, so it sufficed for this exercise. I also jacked the front slightly on a block of wood to simulate the taller tyre (it's currently got a tiny slick on it). Using a length of wood through the centre of the headstock and clamped in place, I drew a line up through the axle with a spirit level. Measuring off I should have approx. 3.5" of trail. Should be about right but I may fit a steering damper as an extra measure. Believe it or not, it actually had one fitted when I picked the bike up.


(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1724/42760942201_6ddeeb586b_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/289D1ma)

I then turned my attention to the Aprilia top yoke. It had an ignition barrel mount on it which needed removing, and the casting marks on it were horrendous.
After an hour or so with the grinder and dremel, it now looks like the pic below. I still need to do some work to neaten up the left overs of the ignition barrel, but unfortunately I'll not be able to get rid of the inner metal entirely as I originally intended, since there are two threaded bosses behind it, which I'd like to keep in case I use them to mount the speedo off.


(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1748/42760942581_a288d88778_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/289D1sH)

I've now got myself a brake caliper on order, and I've been making enquiries to Hagon shocks today. I wanted to custom spec some of their Nitro range, but they fear the spring may be too large in diameter and foul my rear sprocket, since their regular 250RS kit uses a slimline spring, which won't fit the Nitro body. I'm awaiting some dimensions from them so I can do a mock up.