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Blood Sweat Tears and Grease => Projects => Race Ready => Topic started by: Sonreir on Mar 07, 2018, 16:12:35

Title: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 07, 2018, 16:12:35
I picked up this neglected R5 earlier this week for $1500. It's titled, but hasn't run in a while. It came with some TD3 body work (tank, tail, and front fender) and also included a 4LS GT750 front wheel and brake lever.

Naturally, this calls for a TR3 race replica build. For now, this thread will be mostly a place holder. I have to finish up my T500 build before I get to this one, but I figured I'd at least post up the plans and grab some opinions. I'm not overly familiar with the Yamaha two strokes, so I'll be learning as I go.

Current plan:
*Pick up a fairing to complete the body kit
*Shifter is currently bent, replace that and get news seals onto the engine
*New tires and tubes
*Probably a set of new carbs - VM30s?
*Figure out an oil tank
*Electronic ignition?
*All new wiring and street legal light requirements
*Clip-ons and rear sets
*I have a set of early model GSXR right-side-up forks and triples. I'm going to see if those will fit.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 07, 2018, 16:13:20
Most of the parts I have, so far.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 07, 2018, 16:15:03
I'd be fairly pleased if I ended up with something like this.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: der_nanno on Mar 07, 2018, 16:45:39
I wonder what kind of beauty is hiding underneath that plastic wrapping...  ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: cxman on Mar 07, 2018, 17:38:02
yes where is the t500?
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 07, 2018, 17:39:40
yes where is the t500?

Going in for paint in the next couple of weeks. Fenders and pipes are with me for cleaning before going in for rechroming. I don't think the pipes can be salvaged, so I'm looking at aftermarket options. Engine is sitting on my workbench, with the transmission and crank in place. I need a few hours to button it up.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: teazer on Mar 07, 2018, 19:20:15
That would be a nice bike.  What are those pipes?

Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: irk miller on Mar 07, 2018, 19:49:00
How much does that front wheel weigh?  I've always wondered that with those things.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: MiniatureNinja on Mar 07, 2018, 22:55:16
That front wheel and brake is awesome!
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: teazer on Mar 07, 2018, 23:42:20
How much does that front wheel weigh?  I've always wondered that with those things.

About 200 pounds...  OK, so slight touch of hyperbole...  I have had two machined and cross drilled and flanges thinned and they were still so heavy that I sold them off.  And then I managed to score a Yamaha TD3 front wheel for a TZ250 resto and stuff me if that wasn't just as heavy.  OK it was around 8 Kg complete with Rim and spokes and the GT750 is around 9.4Kg for the complete brake including backing plates and axle and torque arms.  Add in spokes and rim and that would make it closer to 12kg.

I just checked my notes and a stock later model GT750 front wheel with disks + tire and tube weighed in at around 12.5Kg plus calipers, so maybe it's not so bad as boat anchors go.

 What I can tell you is they do look pretty good and can be made to work well, but if you ride fast, be prepared to spend some time chasing front end chatter.  A mate of mine back in Melbourne had a Kawasaki A1R replica with that front end and at Broadford it chattered like it had parkinsons or tourrette's.  Not confidence inspiring especially for a slow old guy like me.   
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: teazer on Mar 08, 2018, 01:01:15
Not a TD3 but a close relative - an early TZ250 that we prepared earlier.  This one has an aftermarket US fairing, that TD3 has the Euro fairing.

(http://pinkpossum.com/TZ250A/images/p8170100.jpg)
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: stroker crazy on Mar 08, 2018, 05:23:15
an early TZ250 that we prepared earlier Ö

Delicious!

Crazy
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: canyoncarver on Mar 08, 2018, 13:21:15
In.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Hurco550 on Mar 08, 2018, 13:50:51
I love me some full fairing Yamaha 2 stroke. Im in.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Maritime on Mar 08, 2018, 14:01:11
Signing up.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: teazer on Mar 08, 2018, 14:41:47
Matt,

No pressure, but we will be watching - I mean following. :-)

BTW, there are lots of fairing choices.  TD2 and TD3 look similar, but 2's have wider engine case bulges. By Comparison, the fairing on that TZ has flat sides.  Hurco's static art project ( that's supposed to prod him to get it finished...) has later style C/D aftermarket fairing similar to the one fitted to this TZ250E. 

(http://pinkpossum.com/TZ250E/images/P1010095.JPG)


Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 08, 2018, 14:55:47
I currently have my eye on the TD32 from Airtech.

But I want to run with a headlight, so I'll have to figure something out.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Maritime on Mar 08, 2018, 14:57:02
Hole saw and dual projector beams!
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: irk miller on Mar 08, 2018, 15:03:59

(http://pinkpossum.com/TZ250E/images/P1010095.JPG)

That frame looks similar to the YZ frames with the monoshock through the spine.  Is that a factory frame or custom deal?
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Hurco550 on Mar 08, 2018, 15:06:24
Hurco's static art project ( that's supposed to prod him to get it finished...) has later style C/D aftermarket fairing similar to the one fitted to this TZ250E. 

Ill get back to it. I know it wasn't meant to, but this project has the ardee wheels turning in my head again ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: teazer on Mar 08, 2018, 15:06:42
That looks like similar to the one on the TZ250(A) above but with some differences in nose shape and side trimming.

The first street TZ/TR I saw had an RD400 motor in a TZ twin shock frame but no fairing and in some ways it looked more aggressive than one with a fairing.  It was so simple.  My first RD was also an RD400 stuck into a TD3 frame with a horrible set of mismatched parts on it.

I have also repaired and rebuilt a couple of RD based TD3 racers with a mix of original and replica parts. One used a fairing similar to that one but in two pieces - nose cone and belly/sides. That bike was mostly TZ250 twin shock with a TD3 top end and RD front end.

(http://www.pinkpossum.com/td3/images/Kris3.jpg)

(http://www.pinkpossum.com/td3/images/Kris4.jpg)

That one had TZ/RD wheels and a GT750 rear brake cable to go with the Vesco longer oval tube swingarm that I swapped for his OEM rectangular swingarm.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: teazer on Mar 08, 2018, 15:09:41
That frame looks similar to the YZ frames with the monoshock through the spine.  Is that a factory frame or custom deal?

It's a TZ250E (1978) frame.  Similar to the TZ C (1976) and D (1977) models but with replaceable alloy engine plates that used to crack and are almost impossible to find now.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: JustinLonghorn on Mar 08, 2018, 15:12:13
In.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: teazer on Mar 08, 2018, 15:13:40
Ill get back to it. I know it wasn't meant to, but this project has the ardee wheels turning in my head again ;)

At the risk of thread jacking Sonreir's thread, where is that RD project of yours at and what are you thinking about doing with it now? Maybe a high dollar long stroke, long rod banshee motor, or perhaps a long rod 350 or a simple TZ750 top end transplant? maybe something more budget friendly like a mildly tuned RD350.

Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Hurco550 on Mar 08, 2018, 15:23:19
At the risk of thread jacking Sonreir's thread, where is that RD project of yours at and what are you thinking about doing with it now? Maybe a high dollar long stroke, long rod banshee motor, or perhaps a long rod 350 or a simple TZ750 top end transplant? maybe something more budget friendly like a mildly tuned RD350.

Its safe and sound in the corner of the garage. Plan is the same, the rd350 liquid cooled up end that has all the port work with those chambers that I got off of von yinzer a while back. I got distracted by the likes of BMW and Suzuki dual sport shenanigans.

Though, a friend in Canada has a few non ported lc barrels that he can get me for a fair price. It may be nice to start fresh with stock porting that will not yield such a narrow power band for a slight bit more streetability...
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 08, 2018, 15:23:25
Thread jacks totally permitted. Gonna be a while before I start making progress on this one and inspiration is always welcome.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: teazer on Mar 08, 2018, 15:24:58
That reminds me, Joe Spooner over on two stroke world created an amazing TZ replica out of an RD and he grafted a ported TZ750 top end on it. I don't think he fitted a fairing (yet?) and his has lots of custom machined parts.

If it's acceptable forum etiquette to link to another site, the thread is http://www.2strokeworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=25466.0
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: farmer92 on Mar 08, 2018, 15:28:12
I know this isnít a yamaha, or even a 2 stroke.
But itís what i would go with for lighting
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 08, 2018, 15:32:07
Interesting idea, but I'm afraid this is all I'm seeing right now.  :o ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: farmer92 on Mar 08, 2018, 15:46:13
Something a touch more subtle?
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 08, 2018, 15:47:21
That's a bit more my speed. I was also thinking that the over/under combo seems to be in fashion. If I can still get a single round headlight in there, I'm also considering that option.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: slikwilli420 on Mar 09, 2018, 11:17:19
Let's change this from Race Rep to Race Prep. Get this thing sorted and safety wired and come play. AHRMA and WERA have classes this will fit into nicely and they are competitive bikes with the right rider.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 11, 2018, 12:56:30
Thoughts on aluminum rims for this build?
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: jpmobius on Mar 11, 2018, 13:12:46
H section shouldered rims of course!  I've bought them pretty cheap from Mike's XS, but on occasion had to re-angle the spoke holes and massage the bead seat where the ends of the extrusion are welded together - not a big deal.  I've used their stainless spokes as well - very nice, and also very well priced.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: irk miller on Mar 11, 2018, 13:23:02
Brad collects high shoulder rims, so you could reach out to him as well. 
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 12, 2018, 11:36:54
I got her home from my friend's place. Looks like I have some work to do.

Also, anyone make their own top triple before and care to do it again? ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Hurco550 on Mar 12, 2018, 12:19:38
bummer that brake plate got all ground up on the buffalo drum.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 12, 2018, 12:26:25
Yeah, I'm hoping it will sand/buff out.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: farmer92 on Mar 12, 2018, 12:33:06
I think slikwilli420 makes water jet cut triples


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Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: irk miller on Mar 12, 2018, 12:36:14
DO you know for sure that the GSXR triple won't work?
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 12, 2018, 12:50:01
DO you know for sure that the GSXR triple won't work?

I don't have the upper, so I'll need a replacement of some sort. Currently searching through eBay for something that will match. Not 100% sure of the make/model of the forks and I'm going on only what I was told a few years back when they found their way into my shop.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Tim on Mar 12, 2018, 12:54:12
On my XS I laced an 18" rear XS650 shouldered aluminum rim from MikesXS onto the Suzuki 4LS hub, with Buchanan spokes.  Worked great, if 18" rims front and rear are an option.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 12, 2018, 13:11:09
Good to know. Thanks, Tim.

So rear XS rim on the front?
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: 1fasgsxr on Mar 12, 2018, 13:14:14
I used MikesXS wheels with my stock hubs and Buchanan spokes on the 350F.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 12, 2018, 13:30:06
How about electronic ignition systems? Any recommendations? A quick Google search was inconclusive.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Hurco550 on Mar 12, 2018, 13:30:56
Ive laced the same type setup. I don't know how much difference there is in the diameter of a 4ls buffalo hub and a 2ls titan hub, but, I laced a Suzuki t500 titan drum into a shouldered xs650 rear 18" wheel with stock rd350/ stock xs650 rear spokes, nothing custom.

FYI Bradj gave me this info. gotta give credit where credit is due.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180312/e32bf4eb17b1e396ed32a887d30d6a21.jpg)
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Hurco550 on Mar 12, 2018, 13:44:23
How about electronic ignition systems? Any recommendations? A quick Google search was inconclusive.

https://www.economycycle.com/shop/yamaha-rd250350400r5ds6ds7-parts/mzb-cdi-electronic-igntion-for-yamaha-rd250350400r5ds7-street-version/


this is what I have for my ardee. People who have them seem to like them.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: teazer on Mar 12, 2018, 13:57:20
How about electronic ignition systems? Any recommendations? A quick Google search was inconclusive.

For a simple street system, DYNA from Vintage smoke.

Full replacement street system PD from Economy cycle

Programmable - Ignitech or Zeeltronics

Without lights - Motoplat or Hitachi or PVL CDI  -I have all three of those available...   :-)
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: farmer92 on Mar 12, 2018, 13:57:33
https://www.economycycle.com/shop/yamaha-rd250350400r5ds6ds7-parts/mzb-cdi-electronic-igntion-for-yamaha-rd250350400r5ds7-street-version/


this is what I have for my ardee. People who have them seem to like them.

+1
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: teazer on Mar 12, 2018, 13:59:44
Good to know. Thanks, Tim.

So rear XS rim on the front?

That's what I plan on doing with my latest GT750 4LS brake. An alternative is a TX750 rear alloy rim.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 12, 2018, 14:22:36
For a simple street system, DYNA from Vintage smoke.

Full replacement street system PD from Economy cycle

Programmable - Ignitech or Zeeltronics

Without lights - Motoplat or Hitachi or PVL CDI  -I have all three of those available...   :-)

Damn... that Dyna kit is almost as much as the PD. I guess I know which way I'll be headed.

Also, was the implication that you had some for sale or just that you've used them?
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 12, 2018, 14:38:28
That's what I plan on doing with my latest GT750 4LS brake. An alternative is a TX750 rear alloy rim.

I assume you use a rear rim, instead of a front, for the spoke angle?

Any width recommendations?
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Hurco550 on Mar 12, 2018, 14:54:03
That's what I plan on doing with my latest GT750 4LS brake. An alternative is a TX750 rear alloy rim.

I just happen to have a complete tx750 complete rear wheel sitting around if you find yourself in need
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: teazer on Mar 12, 2018, 16:48:15
For a street bike the PD seems like a logical choice.  Yes I have a couple of self generating race ignitions left over from our TZ racing days.  I'd have to go and dig them out, but not too good on the street with total loss lights.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: teazer on Mar 12, 2018, 16:50:28
I assume you use a rear rim, instead of a front, for the spoke angle?

Any width recommendations?

Yes rear drum type rim will work on the front.  WM2 1.85 front and WM3 rear, or WM3 2.15  front if you go with a 2.5" rear.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 12, 2018, 16:51:29
Will the GT750 drum fit onto a WM2 rim?
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: teazer on Mar 12, 2018, 18:57:51
I don't see why not. That's what it was in on a GT550 or 750 back in the day (but 19")
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 13, 2018, 16:55:55
I finally decided to open up the wrapped pipes and check them out. They're been well-loved in the past, it seems. No brand markings that I could see.

They'll probably get sold and go toward funding something from Higgspeed.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Hurco550 on Mar 13, 2018, 18:18:56
They really don't look to hateful as pipes go man. Id have someone who has the right software run those dimensions and run them anyways. Most of them will be under a fairing no?
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: teazer on Mar 13, 2018, 18:56:09
Just a few scars and they say that chicks love scars, so.......

They will probably work OK if you have the mounting flanges.

You could always roll your own..
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 13, 2018, 18:57:21
There's a box of hardware that came with them. Looks like some springs and other stuff. Flanges are probably in there.

If they're not, will stock work?
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: teazer on Mar 13, 2018, 19:03:37
They appear to slip fit over the flange, so you will probably need a flange that bolts to the barrels that those pipes can slide over/into. 

Depending on the size of stock headers, it might be possible to chop up a set stock headers to make them work as adapters/flanges.

Those pipes look like they are straight at the front end, so the flange/adapter design would have to let them slip inside.  I see the spring end loops

All pipes seem to use Patriot brand mufflers which ironically enough are made in Mexico IIRC.  If they are Bassani, they are well worth keeping. Send me dimensions and I can see what MOTA has to say about them
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: jpmobius on Mar 13, 2018, 20:36:51
  If they are Bassani, they are well worth keeping. Send me dimensions and I can see what MOTA has to say about them

Those aren't Bassani, but if you DO run across a set, they are indeed worth getting.  Far from the best looking, but they're rare and work excellently with the stock(ish) porting.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: der_nanno on Mar 14, 2018, 04:05:29
Just from eyeballing them, they should work even with a relatively stock motor, but the short mid-section suggests, that this one will make rather high-up in the range, i.e. at around the 5-digit mark, which for the intended purpose of this bike sounds rather good to me.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 14, 2018, 11:15:18
Send me dimensions and I can see what MOTA has to say about them

May I please get a run-through of what I'm meant to be measuring? Not sure which dimensions are the meaningful ones.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: teazer on Mar 14, 2018, 12:30:00
Length and diameter of each section close to the center line i.e. half way round where there there's a change in angle

http://www.tz350.net/images/dyno_and_misc/r5_to_tr3_ex_chamber.jpg

http://dragonfly75.com/motorbike/images/ExpChamber.jpg
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 14, 2018, 12:33:04
Thank you, sir!
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: clem on Mar 14, 2018, 20:12:25
Looks like DG to me. Early set.

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Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Uglyrabbit on Mar 15, 2018, 18:31:18
Nice project. Iím jealous
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 19, 2018, 15:42:11
Here're the numbers on the inside of the forks.

ZX600?
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: MickyC on Mar 20, 2018, 05:06:20
Nice one following this beauty


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Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: irk miller on Mar 20, 2018, 20:09:19
Here're the numbers on the inside of the forks.

ZX600?

41mm?
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 20, 2018, 20:14:07
41mm?

Yes.

Overkill?
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: irk miller on Mar 20, 2018, 20:29:08
Yes.

Overkill?
Not at all, but I'm pretty sure that confirms it's ZX600 or ZXR750 forks.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 20, 2018, 20:30:45
Also... I finally got around to measuring the chambers.

They do look a lot like the old DG ones I've seen, maybe this will confirm that part match as well.

The "stingers" are pretty chunky and appeared to be packed with silencing material. That particular measurement is the outside portion, but there does seem to be an inner pipe.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 20, 2018, 20:31:47
And apologies for my typos in the image.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: irk miller on Mar 20, 2018, 20:32:58
And here I thought cicumference was 2 stroke lingo.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 20, 2018, 20:33:43
And here I thought cicumference was 2 stroke lingo.

Yeah. Let's go with that.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 20, 2018, 20:44:37
Not at all, but I'm pretty sure that confirms it's ZX600 or ZXR750 forks.


ZX600 top triple on the way from eBay for $15. Let's see what happens...
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: farmer92 on Mar 20, 2018, 20:47:09
Those are definitely silencers on the end and not stingers. Can they be repacked?
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 20, 2018, 21:18:50
Those are definitely silencers on the end and not stingers. Can they be repacked?

The end caps look removable, but I haven't checked to see how easy they might be to get off.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: farmer92 on Mar 20, 2018, 22:06:33
The end caps look removable, but I haven't checked to see how easy they might be to get off.

Hopefully not to hard, itís usually important to make sure the packing doesnít get too choked up with 2t oil in the exhaust.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: clem on Mar 20, 2018, 22:43:32
I had a set of forks like that on my DS7. They were off of a ZZR600 which was the less sporty version of the ZX600. I believe that Kelly still has them, maybe reach out to him to verify the numbers on the lower. I found that the offset on those forks were a bit too much for the little bike and after a few months I bought an EX250 front end setup for it. If I remember correctly, I had a around 5" of trail with that setup. I'll have to find one of my old spreadsheets to verify.

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Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: canyoncarver on Mar 20, 2018, 22:50:29
Here're the numbers on the inside of the forks.

ZX600?

Yep. 41mm.  Same numbers on the fork legs I got from clem. ZX600
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: teazer on Mar 20, 2018, 22:51:37
What is the "stinger' is it a perforated tube that you measured the OD or something else.  I would expect that to be inside a 2" or so outer sleeve.

How did you determine convergent cone length to the stinger - math, guess work or ?

Dimensions are similar to a common DG pipe but larger diameter and slightly different lengths. Header is the same, diameter is 94mm versus the 100mm ID on yours. 

Interesting
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 20, 2018, 23:18:38
I measured the convergent cones along one side, under the assumption that the sides are more or less equal. Not the most precise job, I know.

For the "stinger" section, I measured around the outside of the entire pipe. The inside does have a much smaller diameter perforated section.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Apr 06, 2018, 13:33:33
First gen ZZR600 top triple is a perfect fit. Now to figure out the bearings...
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: clem on Apr 06, 2018, 22:45:20
The stock R5 stem will press in to the ZZR lower. I may still have the setup that I took off of my bike. If I do, you can have it for shipping.

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Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: pacomotorstuff on Apr 07, 2018, 09:49:30
Hi Matt,
Great project you've got going on.
Regarding the chambers, I can't see from the photos too well, but it looks like the exhaust end caps are riveted on, so just drill them out, remove the caps and pull out the baffle material, which is probably totally plugged with oil.  Honestly, I'd repack them and run them, see if you like the power band, cornering clearance, the noise level, stuff like that.  Of course the final design / shape depends on what other engine mods you do, but they'll get you back on the road a little sooner and give you a baseline to start from.  If you have to cut and add or remove bits to get the power band where you like it, better on a set of used pipes than a set of new, big buck chambers...
Teazer has some excellent comments regarding your project and IMHO, right on the mark re: WM2 (1.85 inch) front and WM3 (2.15 inch) rear rim widths.  You're using the long tank, so your weight is pretty far back and you may not get enough weight on the front end to heat up a wider front tire - so something that fits on a WM2 front is a pretty good choice.  One of the fastest vintage Yam 350's I've ever seen runs a WM2 front - maybe not quite the same use as your bike is going to see, but gets around the track pretty smartly with the "skinny" rim.  Good replica shouldered rims are around and I think the Mike's XS WM3 rear rim should lace up to your drum rear brake, but you might have to look around for a WM2 for a drum front.
Good idea getting bigger forks, just remember to brace the frame (I think Teazer mentioned this already) as the extra loads into the frame may start to do funny things to the handling.
Don't know if the "remove the oil pump and run premix" conversation has come up, but for a street bike, I'd say "don't".  I have a bike in storage with 2,800 original miles on it, owner forgot the premix (no, not my gaff), have to totally rebuild the motor.  Still better than my Bridgestone, which had 300 miles on it before the DPO pulled the same stunt.
DS7's, R5's and RD350's all make neat race bike replicas; I've attached a couple of photos of customer Jason's RD350 race conversion with one of my TR3 fairings and front and rear fenders on it (he'd already bought the seat from another vendor).  Yep, that is an alloy tank and yep, $$$$.
Keep us updated with your project.
Pat
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Apr 07, 2018, 11:56:08
The stock R5 stem will press in to the ZZR lower. I may still have the setup that I took off of my bike. If I do, you can have it for shipping.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using DO THE TON mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89466)



Yes, please!

Hi Matt,
Great project you've got going on.
Regarding the chambers, I can't see from the photos too well, but it looks like the exhaust end caps are riveted on, so just drill them out, remove the caps and pull out the baffle material, which is probably totally plugged with oil.  Honestly, I'd repack them and run them, see if you like the power band, cornering clearance, the noise level, stuff like that.  Of course the final design / shape depends on what other engine mods you do, but they'll get you back on the road a little sooner and give you a baseline to start from.  If you have to cut and add or remove bits to get the power band where you like it, better on a set of used pipes than a set of new, big buck chambers...
Teazer has some excellent comments regarding your project and IMHO, right on the mark re: WM2 (1.85 inch) front and WM3 (2.15 inch) rear rim widths.  You're using the long tank, so your weight is pretty far back and you may not get enough weight on the front end to heat up a wider front tire - so something that fits on a WM2 front is a pretty good choice.  One of the fastest vintage Yam 350's I've ever seen runs a WM2 front - maybe not quite the same use as your bike is going to see, but gets around the track pretty smartly with the "skinny" rim.  Good replica shouldered rims are around and I think the Mike's XS WM3 rear rim should lace up to your drum rear brake, but you might have to look around for a WM2 for a drum front.
Good idea getting bigger forks, just remember to brace the frame (I think Teazer mentioned this already) as the extra loads into the frame may start to do funny things to the handling.
Don't know if the "remove the oil pump and run premix" conversation has come up, but for a street bike, I'd say "don't".  I have a bike in storage with 2,800 original miles on it, owner forgot the premix (no, not my gaff), have to totally rebuild the motor.  Still better than my Bridgestone, which had 300 miles on it before the DPO pulled the same stunt.
DS7's, R5's and RD350's all make neat race bike replicas; I've attached a couple of photos of customer Jason's RD350 race conversion with one of my TR3 fairings and front and rear fenders on it (he'd already bought the seat from another vendor).  Yep, that is an alloy tank and yep, $$$$.
Keep us updated with your project.
Pat

Thanks for the info, sir. I'll definitely need to see about bracing the frame as that's not an area where I have a great deal of expertise.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: teazer on Apr 07, 2018, 14:17:41
On a TZ or TD frame, they need to be braced to delay the inevitable cracking if the rear cross tubes. Leave off the top mount if you rubber mount the motor.

An RD frame is thicker and less prone to cracking than a thin wall TD or TZ frame. I don't think I have ever seen one of those braced on a race bike.  The RD frame is small and remarkably stiff. What used to twist all over the place on my street RDs was the swingarm.  They are about as stiff as a rice noodle.  Good stiff swingarm with new bushes or needle rollers and decent shocks make a huge difference.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Redbird on Apr 07, 2018, 14:40:51
subscribed
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Apr 07, 2018, 17:21:30
On a TZ or TD frame, they need to be braced to delay the inevitable cracking if the rear cross tubes. Leave off the top mount if you rubber mount the motor.

An RD frame is thicker and less prone to cracking than a thin wall TD or TZ frame. I don't think I have ever seen one of those braced on a race bike.  The RD frame is small and remarkably stiff. What used to twist all over the place on my street RDs was the swingarm.  They are about as stiff as a rice noodle.  Good stiff swingarm with new bushes or needle rollers and decent shocks make a huge difference.

So don't worry about bracing on the R5 frame?

Do you know of any swingers from other models that will swap in without too much fuss?
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: farmer92 on Apr 07, 2018, 18:26:56
So don't worry about bracing on the R5 frame?

Do you know of any swingers from other models that will swap in without too much fuss?

What about triangulating the existing one?
Inexpensive and easy enough to do.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: pacomotorstuff on Apr 07, 2018, 18:27:04
Yup, differing opinions as to what mods to make, you get to sift the wheat from the chaff LOL and decide what is best for you.
Mini thread stealing: ah yes, TZ frame cracks.  The rear mount on my B frame looked to have been welded a couple of times before I got it.  By coincidence, was looking at a TZ250E monoshock frame and swinger today.  A friend has just acquired it and the first thing I told him to do was strip the paint at all of the welds and get them magnafluxed - don't care what the DPO told him about it being "okay".
Back to the thread: The poor man's rear swingarm modification was to use a first generation DT1 swingarm (the box one), but I sold the last of mine a couple of years ago.  Same swingarm pivot bolt diameter and the end shims and some of the bushings were the same.  The R5 swing arm is pretty short and the DT1 swing arm is a couple of inches longer as well as stiffer.  Aftermarket swingarms are going to be expensive if you can find one.  "Maybes": an RZ350 swinger, with shock mounts welded on or a  RD400 swing arm - a little longer, but the axle slots are a different size I believe.  I'll ask around.
Neat project.
Pat
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Apr 13, 2018, 10:57:37
Accumulating a few more parts.

New model-specific rear sets have arrived from Slipstream Cycle Works (https://slipstreamcycle.com/)

I've got an email into them to see if I can swap out the fixed peg on the shifter side for a foldable one like there is on the brake side.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: teazer on Apr 13, 2018, 13:28:47
When I had a shed full of RD projects and we aslo had an RG250 , the RD felt like a wet soggy noodle, but I believe that most of that was from worn shocks and a flexible swingarm coupled to a somewhat flexy front end. The frame itself is fairly stiff and small.  You could look at triangulating it but I'm not sure what you would add or where to make much of a difference.

A decent swingarm is a great idea. The Motolanna arm which comes from Thailand and is sold by a number of sellers is really nice and reasonably priced.  I picked up a GS500 swingarm recently.  It's a bit too long but could be shortened quite easily. I haven't had a chance to measure it across the front end to see if it could be persuaded to fit in a stock RD frame, but that's one possibility.

For a twin shock set up you could easily add new lower shock mounts where you want them - way back and angled or way forward for upright shocks.  Assuming it will fit of course. Maybe an RZ swingarm or a YZ250 or IT or something from just after the RD area might work too.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on Apr 13, 2018, 14:31:33
This guy?

http://www.motolanna.com/ourshop/prod_2637748-Swingarm-Aluminum-Alloy-SuperLite.html

Looks like it's for the SR500. Any details on what would be required to adapt it?
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: teazer on Apr 13, 2018, 17:08:52
That question is being asked by others as we speak. .....

http://www.2strokeworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=33792.0

http://www.2strokeworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=33787.0

There are others out there.  I fitted a Vesco swingarm to a TD3 replica a few years ago and I'm sure that someone could weld a box section steel swingarm up for a more traditional look.  There used to be a DG alloy swingarm and someone is making replicas - I just don't know who.

https://tracdynamics.com/products/yamaha-rd-350-400-swingarms

http://www.2strokeworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=28122.0

http://www.klpracing.com/id6.html

http://www.oilypipes.com/yamaha-products.html

But the price is going up the further I search......
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Apr 14, 2018, 02:19:02
This guy?

http://www.motolanna.com/ourshop/prod_2637748-Swingarm-Aluminum-Alloy-SuperLite.html

Looks like it's for the SR500. Any details on what would be required to adapt it?

I don't know how easily this fits the 350 but I bought their other swing arm for the SR500 to put on my SR500 and it is a beautiful piece of kit, very well made.  If it fits the 350, I may get the light one for mine.  I can measure mine sometime next week.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: teazer on Apr 14, 2018, 15:40:59
If you could measure an SR and RD swingarm and post the results, I am sure that would help a lot of people.
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Apr 14, 2018, 17:00:45
I will measure pivot bolt centre to axled center, pivot width, widest width of swing arm and narrowest, over-all length and pivot bolt size.  I think that should cover it but I won't be able to get to it until next week.

Again, the Motolanna swing arm is gorgeous!


Brian
Title: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: farmer92 on Apr 14, 2018, 17:25:01
http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=46438

The RD Swing arm measurements are in the above thread.

ďDs7,r5,rd250,rd350, rd400, twin shock dt250

total lenght 18' + 1 1/2 inch for rd400 + 3 dt250
7 13/16 axl spread
7 9/16 pivot

All rds except the 400 run a 17mm axl but there is a 20mm bushing on the sproket side so the axl plates are different left to right the all the dt250 & 400 ive seen are 20mm on both sides

for all the above bikes the pivot bolt is 16mm as is the frameĒ
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Apr 14, 2018, 17:44:08
Thanks!
Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on May 18, 2018, 22:49:38
Sorry for the delay, I was not able to get up to where my SR500 is strored.

Stock Swing Arm Measurements:

Swing arm pivot centre to axle centre in mid adjustment position - 18.25"

Pivot Width - 8.28

Axle Inside Width - 7.25"

Let me know if you need more measurements.

You can see that with the Motolanna swing arm that there is very little room between the arm and the passenger peg mount, about 1/8" on the right side and slightly more on the left side.  I haven't yet figured out how I am going to mount the exhaust because it was mounted to the passenger peg mount.

Brian


Title: Re: Yamaha R5C - TR3 Race Rep
Post by: Sonreir on May 21, 2018, 11:17:40
Thanks, Brian!