DO THE TON

Turn your Brain Off and Shoot the Shit => Member Introductions => Topic started by: gt alex on Jul 29, 2018, 10:54:14

Title: Saying Hi from Australia as I start my first cafe racer build
Post by: gt alex on Jul 29, 2018, 10:54:14
Hi, I'm not a young fella but I've been round coustom vehicles all my life. So I was keen to do a cafe racer build some thing I havn't done before. My bike of choice honda cb750, was out of my budget, although I was looking and had a plan, but as it happened I was doing a job at a work shop and I was offered a Suzuki sv650 for $500. Being a bit modern (2002) I intialy didn't accept but then it got me thinking and I draw up a new plan more to my budget. The bikes now Home and a great starting point. This will be a budget build but that will not limit the mods it just means more creativity and work for me.
I have spoken to a local engineer who can compliance my mods for road use. I've ony had vintage bikes before and they were exempt engineer approvals so this part is new to me.

The plan is to have to bike as low as possible while still good on twisties, classic cafe racer layout hump set, inline with flat bottomed tank( may be extended I see what is looks like once the seat is in possy) and small headlight. rearsets a must and droopping clipons above the tripple, mounted on the fork tubes once pushed through.(I have to think of my back)

The engineer has said to bike should be registered standard and the modified to save some problems. Aparrently I should have to much trouble as long as I keep 2/3 of original suspension travel and 100mm ground clearance. keep noise under 94dba @ 5000rpm and use complianced lighting (e marked).
 
After 2week of tinkering and lots of cleaning it's nearly ready for its standard road worthy.
The camera on my phone is stuffed but I will post some pics soon.
Although I have a plan I am keen to get as much advise as I can to acheive something special once its all done
Title: Re: Saying Hi from Australia as I start my first cafe racer build
Post by: Sderbyshire on Jul 29, 2018, 14:49:26
Sounds fun, the sv650 is agood base for mods.

Will be interested to see how youw plans evolve!
Title: Re: Saying Hi from Australia as I start my first cafe racer build
Post by: MiniatureNinja on Jul 29, 2018, 18:34:43
íplɹoʍ ǝɥʇ ɟo ǝpıs ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ ɯoɹɟ ollǝɥ

would love to see what an sv650 looks like cafe'd out
Title: Re: Saying Hi from Australia as I start my first cafe racer build
Post by: Brodie on Jul 29, 2018, 19:02:41
Welcome mate. Sounds like you must be in NSW or VIC with the engineer approvals.

Start a build thread so we can follow along.
Title: Re: Saying Hi from Australia as I start my first cafe racer build
Post by: spotty on Jul 30, 2018, 00:20:22
hiya from melbourne
Title: Re: Saying Hi from Australia as I start my first cafe racer build
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Jul 30, 2018, 01:34:43
íplɹoʍ ǝɥʇ ɟo ǝpıs ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ ɯoɹɟ ollǝɥ

would love to see what an sv650 looks like cafe'd out

What he said.
Title: Re: Saying Hi from Australia as I start my first cafe racer build
Post by: stroker crazy on Jul 30, 2018, 01:45:28
G'day from Sydney.

Crazy
Title: Re: Saying Hi from Australia as I start my first cafe racer build
Post by: Sapphireminer on Jul 30, 2018, 03:00:07
Welcome from central Queensland keep us posted how its going.
Dave
Title: Re: Saying Hi from Australia as I start my first cafe racer build
Post by: The Jimbonaut on Aug 01, 2018, 13:38:42
Welcome from Montreal mate
Title: Re: Saying Hi from Australia as I start my first cafe racer build
Post by: gt alex on Sep 14, 2018, 06:11:32
A quick up date. the bikes ready for road worthy inspection and i have most of the bits for the cafe racer transformation. the only mod donee so far is the back has been dropped 1 1/2 inches and the forks pushed through 1 1/8 inch. And i have been testing mufflers and db killers pictures will follow
Title: Re: Saying Hi from Australia as I start my first cafe racer build
Post by: Brodie on Sep 14, 2018, 06:15:30
Post a picture already!

Sounds good that progress is being made. You might want to consider lowering the forks internally rather than pushing them through the triple trees.
Title: Re: Saying Hi from Australia as I start my first cafe racer build
Post by: gt alex on Sep 14, 2018, 06:44:38
I was going to lower the forks internaly but I'm planning at this time to mount the clip ons above the top triple. the current idea is to use the main springs only fro a harley slip in lowering kit but thats not in the budget this months but it doesn't work out i will cut the standard springs to stiffen the front to allow for reduced travel. final drop will be 1 3/4 on the front, then I'll see how it works. its suck it and see approach.
Title: Re: Saying Hi from Australia as I start my first cafe racer build
Post by: gt alex on Sep 14, 2018, 06:53:07
Bent the hoop last week
Title: Re: Saying Hi from Australia as I start my first cafe racer build
Post by: Oz350Four on Sep 14, 2018, 08:29:01
Yo from Moruya NSW... following build..
Title: Re: Saying Hi from Australia as I start my first cafe racer build
Post by: gt alex on Sep 14, 2018, 08:42:53
Trying to work out the muffler, I have a small yosi , a 2"staight through same length off my old kombi, and the staintune that came on the bike. I will be going with a short muffler. I have been tring db killers I had and some my own invention but I will need a dba meter to help decide, I want a note and not kill hp
Title: Re: Saying Hi from Australia as I start my first cafe racer build
Post by: teazer on Sep 14, 2018, 18:19:42
I would be really surprised if you manage to do better than the Staintune thast was on it, in terms of power and noise.  That doesn't mean you shouldn't keep trying, but be prepared to go back to that pipe.
Title: Re: Saying Hi from Australia as I start my first cafe racer build
Post by: gt alex on Sep 14, 2018, 19:23:20
The the dbkiller in the  staintune was very restrictive i swaped it out for one the flows 50% more for a more mellow note and still quite. My surprize was the yosi, I thought it would be crazy loud but its got the best note. both the smaller mufflers are about the same volume, yes louder than the longer muffler. The yosi was super quite with the epa baffle but I would only use that baffle on a 300cc engine or smaller, maybe duals on a 600.
 But I like the look of the old kombi muffler for my project but it will depend on testing. The staintune is out. it just will not fit with my design
Title: Re: Saying Hi from Australia as I start my first cafe racer build
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Sep 17, 2018, 02:26:43
I wouldn't lower the front end, it's going to be a Cafe Racer so the mods you make should improve performance or at least not impair it, at least that is my opinion.  It's your bike though so you are the boss :)
Title: Re: Saying Hi from Australia as I start my first cafe racer build
Post by: gt alex on Sep 17, 2018, 06:35:20
Yes it is a possiblity I will end up raising it again because handling is an imporrtant part of what it is.
 I am trying to make it old school and lowering is a main feature of my plan, so I will spend some time and effort to try and sort the handling with it low.
 From what I've read vs650 gen1 bikes like the nose 5mm lowered (sorting standard bike) thats why I'm "starting" 1 3/4 inch down on the from and 1 1/2 on the rear. Custom machines need sorting to be just right and thats half the challenge.
Title: Re: Saying Hi from Australia as I start my first cafe racer build
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Sep 17, 2018, 16:29:32
Well, if those experienced with this bike say that lowering the front like that improves handling then I am all for it.  I just hate to see guys degrade the performance of a bike just for the look.  But of course ultimately, it is the owner's decision.
Title: Re: Saying Hi from Australia as I start my first cafe racer build
Post by: gt alex on Sep 18, 2018, 04:17:40
On so many levels I agree with you, but I have a plan i'm going to stick with unless I just can't get it right. lowering is only part of the formular the bike already has gold cartridge emulators and I am ordering fork springs that allow for the reduced travel and my weight, and a fully adjustable rear shock setup. The sv650 is a great handling bike standard dispite the front and rear both being too soft, so it is my challenge to meet or improve on that already high standard.
Fingers crossed
Title: Re: Saying Hi from Australia as I start my first cafe racer build
Post by: teazer on Sep 18, 2018, 10:51:04
Yes it is a possiblity I will end up raising it again because handling is an imporrtant part of what it is.
 I am trying to make it old school and lowering is a main feature of my plan, so I will spend some time and effort to try and sort the handling with it low.
 From what I've read vs650 gen1 bikes like the nose 5mm lowered (sorting standard bike) thats why I'm "starting" 1 3/4 inch down on the from and 1 1/2 on the rear. Custom machines need sorting to be just right and thats half the challenge.


You say that 5mm improves handling and then go on to say you want to lower it 1 3/4".  Have you calculated the effect on rake and trail and checked out what that all does to your cornering clearance?

What are you on about with the lowering being part of the story?  It's only pipeburn etc that shows low bikes because someone thought they were cool.  Cool is fine if you don't intend to ride the bike, but if it's your only bike, you may want to re-visit that part of the plan.
Title: Re: Saying Hi from Australia as I start my first cafe racer build
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Sep 18, 2018, 12:27:57
With the ZX14 some guys raise the forks about .5" I think and then install a steering damper to prevent tank slappers (some dampers have two "phases" one to make the steering heavier and more stable and one that only works during a tank slapper, I don't know how they work but I think this feature on my Scott stabilizer is what stopped the tank slapper I experienced one day on my TL1000R, it didn't stop me from shitting my pants however).  I have not tried this on my ZX14, it's just what I have read on a forum but it is supposed to make the bike's steering a lot lighter. ).  The point is, raising your forks can make your bike dangerous not just a poor handler.  Have you checked with the model-specific forums?  On my 81 900F just adjusting the rear shocks to raise the bike to improve clearance, created a speed wobble.  I think you should research this more.Good luck with your build :)
Title: Re: Saying Hi from Australia as I start my first cafe racer build
Post by: gt alex on Sep 18, 2018, 16:30:34
Once all done i will check the trail. remember I am dropping the rear as well as the front, difference being only that 5-6mm. wheel base will shrirk a little with stiffer springs geometry won't change rount as much and full compression is going to be close to standand. but I know it will come down to how it rides and it will take a lot of fiddling to get it right and may be rerouting the exhaust if need be.
Title: Re: Saying Hi from Australia as I start my first cafe racer build
Post by: 1fasgsxr on Sep 18, 2018, 18:23:02
Lowering the front 5 mm is probably what the racers are doing to help them turn in quicker. Almost 2 inches is a huge amount to lower a motorcycle that handles pretty good from the factory. 6 to 12 mm seems to be the sweet spot for the SV forks. Personally I would never lower a motorcycle that much unless it was something I just planned on looking at.
Title: Re: Saying Hi from Australia as I start my first cafe racer build
Post by: jpmobius on Sep 18, 2018, 19:42:25
Ok, joining the chorus here for what it's worth.  A couple of observations.  Obviously manufacturers compromise their bikes to appeal to a specific clientele which makes modifications likely if your purpose is different.  That said, they are very good at producing a very good balance that is unwise to ignore.  Certainly making handling modifications without a specific intent makes no sense, unless of course the intent is aesthetic, in which case handling does not matter.  Regardless, the hundreds of hours by expert riders used to arrive at the the makers result is a good place to start.  Get the ergonomics the way you want (bars, seat, foot rests, and controls), and ride it  - A LOT.  Figure out what you like and don't like about how it drives, and make dedicated alterations toward improving what you like and minimizing or eliminating what you don't like.  In my experience, most guys end up reducing ground clearance with pipes and pegs when inexperienced with making mods.  Throw in any sort of lowering of the chassis and the bike is miserable.  Trying to fix this with stiffer springs makes things worse, as now you have a bike that not only scrapes but is also too stiff, and that is discounting whatever has happened to the handling.  In the main, talking about people who want a cafe bike and actually plan on riding it in an appropriate fashion, I would say more ground clearance is needed if anything, as taking any bike and making it possible to drive harder will get it leaned over more than in its previous life.  Lastly, it seems to me most people like their bikes suspensions set up noticeably too stiff.  I think this is because it makes many feel like the bike is more solid, and lends confidence when driving it, but I think more often than not most guys would be able to ride faster, and much more comfortably with a more compliant set up.
Title: Re: Saying Hi from Australia as I start my first cafe racer build
Post by: gt alex on Sep 23, 2018, 18:24:20
testing fit of clipons an bar end mirrors, might look at doing the rear sets next.