DO THE TON

DO THE TON Sponsors => Sparck Moto => Topic started by: Sonreir on Mar 28, 2014, 18:18:15

Title: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 28, 2014, 18:18:15
We are pleased to announce a prototype version of our new fusebox is nearing completion.  Much of the design credit goes to our good friend, eyhonda, and I highly recommend his services if you have any electronics projects you'd like to see realized.

The FB-11 features 11 separate power connections, three of which are "always on", to allow you to power devices when the motorcycle is off.  This provides easy hookup of battery chargers, or even allows for interesting electronic ignition switch options (such as RFID or remote activation).  Another three of the power connections are married to on-board 20A NO relays and can be used to help boost power to high drain devices such as headlights, ignition coils, and horns.  The final five connections are controlled by an off-board automotive relay and allows individual hookup of circuits in a centralized manner.  These final five connections as well as those controlled by the on-board relays are each individually fused to meet the needs of the circuits they supply.

In addition to a centralized location from which to feed all your power needs, the FB-11 also provides hookups for up to four ground wires.

All provided hookups are 5mm screw terminal blocks to avoid lost connections due to the vibrations we expect these units to see.

Coming soon!
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Bucky685 on Mar 28, 2014, 18:22:39
Very nice looking package you got there!
Will it have any sort of casing or will it be just the board?
Title: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: SONIC. on Mar 28, 2014, 18:22:46
Hell yes Matt this is awesome.
Ballpark price?
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: firebane on Mar 28, 2014, 18:25:45
Need testers? :D

If the price is at a good point I'll be really interested in one of these.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 28, 2014, 18:30:39
Very nice looking package you got there!
Will it have any sort of casing or will it be just the board?

There will definitely be a casing and it will likely be black plastic.  Still evaluating options.

Hell yes Matt this is awesome.
Ballpark price?

Between $100 and $150, but still nailing it down.  Cost price for a small run of these worked out to about $60 a board and that didn't include design costs, the labor to assemble them, or the upcoming casing.  Hopefully with larger runs we drop materials costs, however.

Need testers? :D

If the price is at a good point I'll be really interested in one of these.

Yes.  Yes, we will need testers.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: irk miller on Mar 28, 2014, 19:00:02
Man, this is exciting.  I've been looking at the Denali PH2 or trying to figure out how to piecemeal some Honeywell options.  But this is perfect.  I'll be looking for when they hit the street.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Finnigan on Mar 28, 2014, 19:25:36
So its essentially a motogadget M-unit?
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 28, 2014, 19:31:59
Not quite that fancy (yet).
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: teazer on Mar 28, 2014, 19:33:19
More like a PC-8 with relays on the card ?
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 28, 2014, 19:39:59
Yup.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: firebane on Mar 28, 2014, 19:44:19
So its essentially a motogadget M-unit?

While simliar its not.

These guys have added things like relays. In case you didn't know when you run your headlights off a bikes strandard electrical system then can draw a lot of juice making it difficult for other components to work.

By adding a relay things like headlights won't draw as much off the main system any more.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Tim on Mar 28, 2014, 20:00:34
Not to be argumentative, but I don't think relays can reduce the load of any particular light or horn or what have you.

They direct power to the fixture from the battery via the relay, keeping the amperage out of the switch, extending the life of your switch and reducing the gauge wires etc. you need in the switch.  This is how heated grips work, my high-draw Stebel horn, the starter motor on your bike (the solenoid is just a giant relay) etc.

Somehow magically I think the M-Unit can allow control of multiple things from a single switch or something like that.

Anyhow - I'm going to be signing up for one of the Sparck Moto units and wiring harness for my SR500 project I think!
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 28, 2014, 20:20:30
The benefit of the relay is that it reduces the distance the current has to travel to activate the device.  As you may or may not know, longer wiring runs introduce additional resistance and more resistance means less amps.  Switches also add extra resistance, too.

By using a relay, you can feed power directly to the high current devices from the battery.  Lower resistance means more amps and so your headlight may be brighter, your horn may be louder, and your coils may have a fatter Sparck™.  ;)
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Keiff Hardcore on Mar 28, 2014, 20:39:11
so if im getting this correctly you could have the entire harness centralized to the board?

I HIGHLY recommend you have an initial run as a group buy here on DTT. you can have a set number of units made right away and also lower costs for the group buy participants.

I have participated in SEVERAL group buys on other forums, and always liked the idea, as many people want the same product, and are much more willing to jump on board if they save $10-20 off retail on an item.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Mydlyfkryzis on Mar 28, 2014, 23:24:08
If my CB360 had more than 1 spare watt, I'd consider it for that. But that board is exactly what my NH750 needs.  Between running likes, air horn, Lights on my panniers, I have a mess of extra wire. Been looking at the third party stuff, but never quite the right mix.

This looks like a better, more flexible arrangement. 

If it is half as good as your Reg/Rect than I will be waiting for the release.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Tim on Mar 28, 2014, 23:26:28
Well I knew the length of the wire makes a difference, but I didn't think it would make that much of a difference on these short runs.  But I suppose every watt counts!
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 29, 2014, 00:50:18
The switches have a much greater impact than the wires, in practice, but it all adds up.

Lets say you're running a headlight with a high beam resistance of 3.5Ω...  At 14V that works out to 4A, or 56W.

Same headlight, but now we add only .7Ω for resistance of wire and switches.  Our voltage regulator is still keeping us at a steady 14V, so when resistance increases, it's Amps and Wattage that drops.

I = V / R.

Down to 3.3A now and that puts us close to 47W.  Lost 10W due to resistance.

And I don't think that .7Ω number is unrealistic for a standard setup, either.  I just measured a few wires, connections, and switches.  The switches I have in stock are adding about .2Ω per switch and each crimped connection is adding about .03Ω.  When you consider that most stock setups take the flow of current through the ignition switch, fusebox (twice), and several connectors, a straight shot from a relay is looking better and better.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: eyhonda on Mar 29, 2014, 00:54:56
Nice intro, Matt!  Much cost savings can be realized by not populating the full board.   As an idea, you can offer different levels/versions off the same PCB.   If you only want one switched relay circuit, offer a version without the other two relays and fuse sockets inserted.   As a correction, there are five ground taps not four (unless one is used for the off board relay).    Some of the smaller singles may only need a fourth of the capability.   Granted it will still be the same size for a base version, but the price can be lower.   Maybe set up 3 or 4 levels of build, based on the number of switched relays.    But at first we really need to beta test these parts to check current handling and overall reliability.   The components are already automotive spec'd.   It is the board that I designed that needs to be field tested before production release.    It sounds like we have a few willing testers though!

Edit:
Just to add to Matt's response on current draw and voltage drops.   The worst voltage drops/high resistance points are those old bullet connectors.   Any place with a loose connector will have a big resistance that increases voltage drop with current.  Off the top of my head, the on board relays have a 150 ohm coil that only draws 80 ma thru your switch.   If your battery is at 14 v, add up all the voltage drops and you are likely to be in the 11 volt range to your headlight.  With a relay circuit, it will drop much much less.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 29, 2014, 01:01:02
As a correction, there are five ground taps not four (unless one is used for the off board relay).

Counting is hard...  :P
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Keiff Hardcore on Mar 29, 2014, 01:21:50
yes, all those little bastards add up.

i honestly dont get why there are so many dedicated grounds on bikes. it seams wasteful.

oh and it would be realy cool if you did a DIY kit that included wiring and maybe a few other bits so the entire conversion could be done with one purchase.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: irk miller on Mar 29, 2014, 01:49:34
It would seem that cleaning up the wiring with a system like this will also improve connections. Old, bent, loose or corroded stock connectors, can produce heat that also increases resistance.  Clean, efficient wiring has no faults.
Title: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Rich Ard on Mar 29, 2014, 14:15:34
I haven't put the harness back on my Viragostrosity yet either, and will be doing so in the next month or so. Would definitely be in for the cost of testing.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Mydlyfkryzis on Mar 29, 2014, 21:50:48
I haven't put the harness back on my Viragostrosity yet either, and will be doing so in the next month or so. Would definitely be in for the cost of testing.

Remember, the gray wire with the white stripe is not the same as the gray wire with the white stripe.  Also, the gray wires are ground, but not the gray wires. 

I know why you would never pass the bomb squad disarming test.....

Wiring must be one of the most challenging aspects....
Title: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Rich Ard on Mar 29, 2014, 21:52:02
No problem at all. I just stop when the fire gets too hot.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Mydlyfkryzis on Mar 29, 2014, 23:36:46
No problem at all. I just stop when the fire gets too hot.
Ha!! ;D
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: coalnation on Mar 29, 2014, 23:48:52
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: canyoncarver on Mar 29, 2014, 23:54:50
Sonreir and eyhonda, this is seriously cool.  Put me down for one when ready.  I'm interested in what sort of cases you'll have also.  Will the onboard relays be replaceable ?
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 30, 2014, 01:29:18
Sonreir and eyhonda, this is seriously cool.  Put me down for one when ready.  I'm interested in what sort of cases you'll have also.  Will the onboard relays be replaceable ?

Not easily, no.  Relays have a pretty long life though.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Ellwood on Mar 30, 2014, 03:52:37
I would be in on one of these also. The kit with some wire would be great too... Sourcing out all the little stuff zaps what's left of my brain. And as a man I get tired fast when shopping.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: AgentX on Apr 01, 2014, 00:46:01
Sonreir,

So the off-board relay, run by your key switch or toggle or RFID or whatever, controls the power main from the battery to the switched circuits, and a separate lead from the battery supplies the always-powered circuits? 


This looks awesome!!
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Apr 01, 2014, 02:18:22
Sonreir,

So the off-board relay, run by your key switch or toggle or RFID or whatever, controls the power main from the battery to the switched circuits, and a separate lead from the battery supplies the always-powered circuits? 


This looks awesome!!

More or less, yeah.  :)

eyhonda and I are still hard at work nailing down final specs.  Currently looking at enclosures and the prototype will (hopefully) be tested in the next couple of weeks.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: firebane on Apr 01, 2014, 02:37:03
Here is my thoughts on this. I live in Canada and I'm not sure what the weight or what shipping would entail but at a price tag of $150 I would probably not buy this just due to exchange rate and shipping details.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Apr 01, 2014, 12:02:16
Nothing too specific just yet as we're still nailing everything down, but ballpark estimates put our costs at around $65 to $70 per unit (which includes shipping cost within the USA, international shipping will obviously cost a bit more), and that's if we produce 50+ at a time.  Costs drop a bit more if we can get closer to 100 units per production run, but rise drastically if we don't hit the 50 mark (we're talking over $100 per unit if we can't break 30).

The reason for this high cost is pretty simple, though:  We're doing all of the design and production here in the USA using circuit boards and electronics enclosures that are also designed and manufactured in the USA.  The assembly is going to be hand-done by eyhonda.  We could probably have this done in SE Asia for a fraction of the price, but that's not really what this is about.  I'd rather have to charge a bit more (and still earn a bit less) to keep this product as domestic as possible.  Yeah, things like the wire, fuses, and relays and stuff are made elsewhere and imported, but the majority of this thing is made here, by hand, and that costs extra.

To me, that's worth it, and I hope it's worth it to some other folks, too.  This isn't about just bringing a new product to market.  This is about loving what we do and taking pride in it.  It's about showcasing possibilities while providing something to the community that supports us.

That said, it's still important to provide good value for money and we remained focused on that aspect of the business, too.

So what we have here is a situation where everyone can benefit.  Eric (eyhonda) and I have been tossing around the idea of a pre-order or kickstarter-like setup.  For those not following the math in the first paragraph, getting 50 of these units produced is going to cost about $3500 up front.  And that's doesn't even count the time invested in getting this going or seeing any kind of return.  $3500 is break even just on materials.

That said, if we can get 35 people to pre-pay at $100 per unit, then that covers production costs and still leaves a few units that we can sell at retail price.  I'm just thinking out loud, though... Pretty certain we're going to have to go with a pre-order scheme of some sort in order to make this happen, but the details still need to be hashed out...

More to come in the next few days.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Apr 28, 2014, 15:22:16
Installation in progress on my friend Dave's Dad's Duc.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: firebane on May 12, 2014, 20:28:50
Any progress on this? I'm still interested.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on May 12, 2014, 21:37:15
Still working on the redesign for the production version.  Out initial prototype is currently in the wild and is being field-tested on a 1970s Ducati.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: nightpoison on Jun 06, 2014, 23:33:43
very interested, subscribed.  Looking forward to hearing more on this....
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: HolyRoller on Jun 07, 2014, 00:24:31
Defo also interested in this... keep us posted.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: mathil on Jun 08, 2014, 14:24:10
Looks cool! I'd be interested for sure. Instead of trying to individually mount relays, a fuse block and buss bars a one box solution would really clean things up.

What size wire will the terminals accommodate? Are the main power and ground in terminals sized larger?

Count me in, from Canada.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Jun 08, 2014, 16:12:35
In our more current design, the main power and ground terminals are being replaced with 6mm studs.  The other terminals will handle up to 14 gauge wires.  This is still subject to change, however.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: mathil on Jun 08, 2014, 19:12:40
Right on. A stud would allow whatever gauge the customer chooses, with the right terminal end, instead of limiting the size to what you can cram in the screw clamps.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: nightpoison on Jun 27, 2014, 00:24:40
so, any updates on this? currently working on my first build. previous owner cut all the wires and soldered. while this isn't a concern, i think i screwed up rewiring for new handle controls and headlight. can't recut, as there's not enough wire.

thinking of ordering a new harness, but would love this in its place. I hope this is newbie friendly........

Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Jun 27, 2014, 12:26:41
It's on hold for a bit while we get the cam chain tensioners sorted out.  Progress likely to resume toward the end of summer.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: TJGM on Dec 21, 2014, 12:11:58
Are these available yet ?

Thanks,
~T
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Hold_Fast on Jan 09, 2015, 12:34:42
In for updates!
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 04, 2015, 11:43:46
Making progress!
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Hold_Fast on Mar 04, 2015, 11:45:29
You have an ETA on these bad boys yet?  I need to re-wire my bike, but was kinda hoping to be able to use this!
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 04, 2015, 11:46:59
Still a ways out, I'm afraid.  Maybe beginning of summer?

Other projects keep getting in the way.

It's expected that this is our final prototype for the first version, though.  We discovered a few additional board layout changes we want to make and are working on fitting it all inside an enclosure.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: john83 on Mar 09, 2015, 00:44:32
This looks cool. I'd be interested in one.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Mar 09, 2015, 10:51:48
Remember me sir. I would like to have the opportunity to purchase one.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 09, 2015, 11:03:16
Definitely haven't forgotten you, Ed.  How close are you to wiring up your bike?  Honda 450 was it?
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Mar 09, 2015, 11:54:38
You remember! I am impressed.
The custom tank is being built as we speak by a local fellow in RI. The electronics tray for it is 95% complete.
Then the wiring that you will be making for me come into the picture.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Finnigan on Mar 09, 2015, 19:40:37
wanna make another one of those for my 450?  ;D
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Mar 10, 2015, 18:56:06
Finnigan, I will PM you the contact info.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: williamng on Apr 29, 2015, 21:42:07
How's the progress on this?
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Apr 29, 2015, 21:54:31
The person to volunteer for the install still hasn't gotten their bike to me...  :-\
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Jramos13 on May 23, 2015, 00:14:29
Hi sonreir, any updates on this? Im very interested, i'ven looking at the ultima wiring harness, but i think your controller would be a much better choice, since i would be able to run everything with it, with the ultima one you still have to wire the rectifire and ignition separetly
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Keiff Hardcore on May 31, 2015, 01:10:04
i would definitely volunteer my bike for a "none Starter" circuit version. my bike is kick start only, so i dont need it.

is this board going to include a flasher relay?
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on May 31, 2015, 12:47:53
i would definitely volunteer my bike for a "none Starter" circuit version. my bike is kick start only, so i dont need it.

is this board going to include a flasher relay?

Long term, yes. Short term, no.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Jramos13 on Jul 19, 2015, 01:38:40
Any updates?
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Jul 19, 2015, 13:40:54
Currently sitting on a couple of prototypes that can do to someone if they really want one badly. They'd need to source some enclosures, however, as these are just the bare boards.

We're likely going to make a couple of more changes before we go to production. It seems each new prototype reveals a couple of more things that would be good to change.

Hopefully these will (finally) be ready mid-to-late Autumn, but then I'll need to save up enough for production costs.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Jul 19, 2015, 18:56:26
SWEET!!!!!
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: nightpoison on Jul 19, 2015, 20:52:46
Would preorders help with funding for production. I would be in.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Jul 19, 2015, 22:03:09
Would preorders help with funding for production. I would be in.


They definitely would.

I'll be sure to let everyone know once the design has finalized.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: nightpoison on Jul 19, 2015, 22:12:21
Are you still doing production and sourcing parts within USA?
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Jul 19, 2015, 22:13:32
Are you still doing production and sourcing parts within USA?

Design is definitely being done in the USA and I'm currently on the fence about the production. I'm going to investigate a few options and figure it out.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Jul 20, 2015, 14:03:10
Having been in the electronics manufacturing all my career, (over 40 years), I suggest you have a oupleof turn key contract assembly houses quote the building for you. (Heck I even had my own company for some years.)
May I suggest that you give these guys a call? http://www.case-assembly.com/
Ask for Steve Markos and tell him that I pointed you in their direction.

Keep posted please.

Ed

Ps. Did you see the article on the Bridgestone on this months issue of Classic Motorcycles?
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Jul 20, 2015, 14:08:38
Did you see the article on the Bridgestone on this months issue of Classic Motorcycles?

I did not. I don't see too much in the way of paper print these days. What was the gist?
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Jul 20, 2015, 14:21:53
Just a nice article and pretty cool to have the bike featured on an a national magazine. I am an old guy that still reads print.)
If you want a copy of the magazine, I will gladly send it to you.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Jul 20, 2015, 15:22:32
If you have a spare, I would very much appreciate a copy. Thank you.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Jul 20, 2015, 15:38:39
Ship to address?
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Jul 20, 2015, 16:01:31
Sparck Moto
120 NE Fairway Dr
Albany, OR  97321

Thanks, again.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Jul 20, 2015, 16:17:38
Will ship it tomorrow.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Jramos13 on Aug 25, 2015, 00:13:28
Any updates? I know you said autumm, but im just curious on how its comming along!😁
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Sep 15, 2015, 13:13:00
OK... currently speaking with the manufacturer who handles our flasher relays and R/Rs.

Initial order cost is going to be about $9,000 USD, excluding the cases, which I am still trying to source independently. Cost with the custom enclosures would have made initial costs $37,000. O_o

I might try to see if I can find someone local to handle the enclosures as Oregon has a fair number of plastic injection molding specialists.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Jramos13 on Sep 19, 2015, 03:36:40
Awesome looking foward to use it on my tx500 project that im starting in the next few months!
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Jramos13 on Nov 19, 2015, 23:44:48
Any updates!?!?
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Nov 20, 2015, 00:30:29
Yup. Had a prototype made by my Chinese manufacturer and there was definitely something lost in translation.

Working with JustinLonghorn right now on a new layout.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Nov 20, 2015, 11:00:53
Having been in the electronics industry for over 25 years, I can say that I know the industry well. I have been dealing with manufacturing in the Far East since the early '80s.
That being said, may I suggest that you reach out to Steve Markos at CASE Assembly Inc., http://www.case-assembly.com/.
Tell Steve that I recommended them to you. You may be surprised at the cost of the turn key cost. They are quite competitive.
Good luck!
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Nov 20, 2015, 11:04:17
Thanks, Ed!
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Nov 20, 2015, 11:14:43
Any time brother!
If you need any help withe PCB layouts on CAD let me know. I have some good contacts.
Ditto for mechanicals.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Nov 20, 2015, 11:22:36
Any time brother!
If you need any help withe PCB layouts on CAD let me know. I have some good contacts.
Ditto for mechanicals.

JustinLonghorn is helping with the PCB layout at the moment, but I may tap your knowledge and expertise for those other areas. As soon as we have the footprint finalized and also ensure my design works as intended, we're going to start looking at a custom enclosure.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Nov 20, 2015, 11:24:14
Looking forward to it.
I just did some custom side covers for the '72 CB450 that I have been working on. I had them 3D printed and they came out awesome.
I will PM you the drawings for them.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Jramos13 on Nov 20, 2015, 14:07:01
Looking fwd for it too! I just started my build last week, i might be hitting the electronics part in a month or 2
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: flyonly on Dec 24, 2015, 19:33:31
Do you want me to print some boxes for you to try?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Dec 25, 2015, 13:29:21
Do you want me to print some boxes for you to try?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You have 3D printing capabilities?
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: flyonly on Dec 25, 2015, 19:07:41
I can draw something up and have a guy that does my printing.


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Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Dec 28, 2015, 12:08:47
ok
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 07, 2016, 13:06:48
Next round of prototypes will be done soon.

These are looking like they might be "the one".
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Mar 07, 2016, 17:20:21
GREAT!!!!!!
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: eyhonda on Mar 07, 2016, 17:41:04
Yup, it's coming along now!  I'm excited to be part of this!  We have a field tester for this batch, Matt?
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: canyoncarver on Mar 08, 2016, 12:34:30
These are going to be a hit.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 08, 2016, 12:39:54
Yup, it's coming along now!  I'm excited to be part of this!  We have a field tester for this batch, Matt?

I have one guy lined up. He's a local friend whose bike I will be wiring in the next few weeks.

Also, I hope jramos13 won't mind me sharing his feedback from the last test run:

Quote from: jramos13
hope you are doing good, i just finish wiring the whole bike, i gotta say the controller is just one of the best thing i have use in my life to wire something, its just so simple and yet funtional, IMO, believe it or not the best feature is the ease of installing the cables to it, i dont have to sauter in a terminal or do anything, just expose some cable put it in and tight it, thats it, it was a very clean easy install, the led and built in relay feature are awesome too, but again IMO the easy it is to install it, use it, and the clean look to me is are strongest point. i still have not come up with an enclosure idea, just been to busy dealing with the VA lol, but im so happy with it, that when the final product comes out ill definitely gonna buy it

I sent him a board, earlier in the year, without the enclosure.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on May 27, 2016, 14:18:59
Finally, some more progress.

Next step is to send the modified enclosure back to the manufacturer to get a quote on a bulk run of the units we need.

Hopefully, we'll be able to trim the height a bit, too.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on May 27, 2016, 14:31:50
Sweet!!!
Don't forget when when they are available?
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on May 27, 2016, 14:34:14
Sweet!!!
Don't forget when when they are available?

Hopefully soon. Maybe another week or two to finalize the details with the enclosure manufacturer and then talk to the board maker about an initial run. Might still be a couple of months before we're ready to sell, but I'll have a better idea in the next few weeks.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on May 27, 2016, 14:40:30
Excellent.
If you need a good board guy, let me know and I will hook you up with my best friend.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: eyhonda on May 27, 2016, 15:08:35
 I've been working with Matt on board design of these prototypes for more than 2 years (on & off).   I'm hoping to stay on board for the production as well.   Maybe, even more products to come. 
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on May 27, 2016, 15:15:42
Oh, sorry brother. I did not mean to infringe.
Just trying to help Matt out any way that I can.

My sincere apology.

Ed
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: eyhonda on May 27, 2016, 15:19:28
No offense or infringement taken.   I've been absent from this forum for one reason or another.  So, just letting all know I'm still alive.  It's all cool!
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on May 27, 2016, 15:21:01
Thanks.
Glad that you are back.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: eyhonda on May 27, 2016, 15:34:17
You're welcome and thanks.   I just acquired one of my favorite vintage bikes - a cb175.   I'll use it as a test development bed for other things electronic.   So, yeah, I hope to get active here again.   This fuseblock project is pretty exciting stuff.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on May 27, 2016, 15:38:33
That is a cool bike. I had one when I was in high school.
The fuseblock is awesome!
My son and I have a few unmolested CB160s.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: datadavid on May 30, 2016, 11:46:44
 This is a cool project! Can you explain how relays are superior to microswitches so the village idiot here can understand?
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on May 31, 2016, 19:27:46
This is a cool project! Can you explain how relays are superior to microswitches so the village idiot here can understand?

Relays are basically high current switches. They provide a direct shot from the power source to the powered component (instead of having to pass through long sections of wire and multiple switches, as is the case in most setups).  They also allow the use of microswitches to run things like the headlight or coils, which usually isn't possible with the switches, directly.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: nightpoison on Aug 30, 2016, 08:05:51
Question, when designing this did u take in to consideration a stock bike or one that's been modded? Can this be mounted in the stock location where the fuses r located now or will other mods need to be done to accommodate it
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Maritime on Aug 30, 2016, 08:40:19
Nightpoison, it would totally depend on the bike. I used one of these and completely rewired my GL1000, used probably half the wire vs oem and was able to shorten a lot of circuits up etc. I found it really simple to create the circuits I needed off the FB-11 versus doing it with just a fuse block. Basically you power the board and ground it, then you can run the hot or + to the component then ground from the component to a ground spot close to it. I used about 4 frame grounds which cleaned up the wiring and made for a better ground in most cases.  The board has an LED indicator for each fuse so if one goes you see it immediately. It would have mounted in my factory fuse location but I chose to move it for easier access and to run less wires.  for a good example of what you can reduce, if you have ever seen inside an old bikes headlight bucket there is like 10 connectors and its stuffed with wires all going in and out for usually all the lights, and controls etc. I have the headlight plug, everything else is rin from the FB-11 to the control or light and then ground. way cleaner.

Cheers

Maritime
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: nightpoison on Aug 30, 2016, 09:01:31
That makes complete sense. I guess I didn't really think about the question. I have a 74 CB750 and it would be different for every bike. Thanks for your insight.

Nightpoison, it would totally depend on the bike. I used one of these and completely rewired my GL1000, used probably half the wire vs oem and was able to shorten a lot of circuits up etc. I found it really simple to create the circuits I needed off the FB-11 versus doing it with just a fuse block. Basically you power the board and ground it, then you can run the hot or + to the component then ground from the component to a ground spot close to it. I used about 4 frame grounds which cleaned up the wiring and made for a better ground in most cases.  The board has an LED indicator for each fuse so if one goes you see it immediately. It would have mounted in my factory fuse location but I chose to move it for easier access and to run less wires.  for a good example of what you can reduce, if you have ever seen inside an old bikes headlight bucket there is like 10 connectors and its stuffed with wires all going in and out for usually all the lights, and controls etc. I have the headlight plug, everything else is rin from the FB-11 to the control or light and then ground. way cleaner.

Cheers

Maritime
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: eyhonda on Aug 30, 2016, 10:10:18
Nightpoison, it would totally depend on the bike. I used one of these and completely rewired my GL1000, used probably half the wire vs oem and was able to shorten a lot of circuits up etc. I found it really simple to create the circuits I needed off the FB-11 versus doing it with just a fuse block. Basically you power the board and ground it, then you can run the hot or + to the component then ground from the component to a ground spot close to it. I used about 4 frame grounds which cleaned up the wiring and made for a better ground in most cases.  The board has an LED indicator for each fuse so if one goes you see it immediately. It would have mounted in my factory fuse location but I chose to move it for easier access and to run less wires.  for a good example of what you can reduce, if you have ever seen inside an old bikes headlight bucket there is like 10 connectors and its stuffed with wires all going in and out for usually all the lights, and controls etc. I have the headlight plug, everything else is rin from the FB-11 to the control or light and then ground. way cleaner.

Cheers

Maritime

I'm a bit late to check in here but it was cool reading how you installed the FB-11.   Neat to see something I was part of being used!  I'll be wiring one of my prototypes on my cb175 shortly.   I'm still waiting for Vintage Connections to fix their website so I can order a new connector kit.

Eric

Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Maritime on Aug 30, 2016, 10:24:11
I liked it and I will have to go back and re-do my connections, not on the board, those are good but I used the store bought bullets and even though I used shrink tube etc, I should have spent the $$ on the good ones from vintage connections. So over the winter if I have the spare funds I will re-do my bullets.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: eyhonda on Aug 30, 2016, 10:47:58
Good idea.  I don't really like the bullets but they are good for routing since it is a single connector.   Better if you can switch to more modern reliable blade/pin connectors.  Just cut and crimp.   The crimper from VC is a good deal.   BTW, the proto board is pretty thin as I see on your posting.  For production, we can plan to go thicker.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Maritime on Aug 30, 2016, 10:59:47
Cool, I was careful to mount it on foam rubber and in one pic is was slightly bent, I fixed that and made it flat. got 2K on the bike since install and all my electrical is working fine. I was planning to get the vintage connectors kit with the crimper and the various bullets and blade pin connectors for where I have 3-4 wires together etc.  Just needed to do it cheap for now, will spend the $$ over winter to make it better.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: SF on Aug 30, 2016, 11:08:54
Interesting, are these weather proof?
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Aug 30, 2016, 11:10:05
Weather resistant. Not weather proof. Best to mount them somewhere out of the elements. Final version will have an enclosure, which will help, but still best to keep as dry as possible.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Maritime on Aug 30, 2016, 11:16:21
Mine is out of direct weather, but it got a little dampness from 12 straight hours in the rain, didn't miss a beat, all my electrical was a ok. my poor plugs didn;t like it though and I was dropping cylinders on the last 2 hours. They are not powered through the FB-11 though LOL
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Sep 01, 2016, 14:16:52
Are these available for purchase now?
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Sep 01, 2016, 14:19:13
Not quite. Having troubles with the enclosure. The company I originally was looking at won't be able to modify the enclosures the way we had hoped.

We have a couple of options at this point:
1.) Go with the original enclosure and end up with something larger than desired (about an inch too tall)
2.) Redo the board layout to fit a different enclosure
3.) Get some custom enclosures made (min quantity on this has been 1000 units in all the quotes I've received so far)

Currently looking for others ideas...  :-\
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Sep 01, 2016, 14:21:53
Could you vacuum form it?
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Sep 01, 2016, 14:22:49
Could you vacuum form it?

Not sure. I don't know too much about the manufacturing processes used, but I'm open to any and all suggestions.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Sep 01, 2016, 14:34:50
You may want to take a look at the process. It has limitations but it may be an alternative.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: eyhonda on Sep 01, 2016, 14:41:48
I think the vacuum form process will not hold accuracy well enough.   I'm researching a bit here at work too.   I have lots of tie ins to the automotive & manufacturing industry.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Sep 01, 2016, 15:05:09
How much accuracy is needed for the cover?
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Sep 01, 2016, 15:30:24
Rough guess? About 0.20" or so. The mounting screws to hold the board to the enclosure aren't very large.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Sep 01, 2016, 15:31:42
That may be a problem for vacuum forming.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Maritime on Sep 01, 2016, 15:33:22
Injection moulded plastic is probably the best but the reason you have to buy min 10000 pieces is they have to make a die and if you never buy more they have to cover the cost
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Maritime on Sep 01, 2016, 15:37:33
I used to have contacts in that biz but not anymore. I had a great little shop in middle of nowhere China that would do the mould and do a run of 250 just to get their name out there.  They had good quality stuff and met tight tolerances too. Ended up supplying me a lot of parts. They had 0 overhead so that's why they could do it.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Maritime on Sep 01, 2016, 15:38:47
What I you moulded without mount holes and let folks drill and tap them after purchase?
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Sep 01, 2016, 15:44:55
Check these guys out.
http://www.envplastics.com/
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Sep 01, 2016, 15:47:40
I have used the services of http://www.mfg.com/, and had real good results.
I had some very low volume plastic and machined parts made at reasonable prices.
It is a reversed bidding process and the pricing can be all over the map, but it may be worth a shot.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Sep 01, 2016, 16:06:06
This company is in WA. May be worth speaking to them.

http://www.toollessplasticenclosures.com/

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=no+mold+required+plastic+enclosures&&view=detail&mid=091955F4D4FD4F75DED3091955F4D4FD4F75DED3&rvsmid=091955F4D4FD4F75DED3091955F4D4FD4F75DED3&fsscr=0&FORM=VDMCNL
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Sep 01, 2016, 16:23:23
One more....http://www.freetechplastics.com/
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Bozz on Sep 01, 2016, 17:43:27
Would it be an option to release a 3D model of the enclosure so folks who want one can 3D print it themselves?
Just trying to think outside the box a little...
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: nightpoison on Sep 01, 2016, 18:17:10
I was just about to ask about this. Any chance for this and to buy the board separate?

Would it be an option to release a 3D model of the enclosure so folks who want one can 3D print it themselves?
Just trying to think outside the box a little...
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Sep 01, 2016, 19:11:20
Good point Bozz! I like how you think.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Brodie on Sep 01, 2016, 21:06:01
Will it fit in a raspberry pi case?
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: nightpoison on Sep 01, 2016, 21:09:52
doubtful, it looks a bit wider than a raspberry pi.

Will it fit in a raspberry pi case?
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Sep 08, 2016, 15:28:11
Any luck with the suppliers I mentioned?
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Sep 08, 2016, 15:55:41
Not yet. Working on the drawings I need in order to get a quote. I'll hopefully be chasing quotes next week.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Sep 08, 2016, 17:13:48
Good luck sir.
Let me know if I can help you with anything.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Sep 28, 2016, 10:47:00
After careful consideration, we've decided to redesign the board to fit another commercially available enclosure.

The size on this new one will be better than our last choice and the price for the redesign was more advantageous than the work necessary to get a custom enclosure.

The new case is a lower profile and is fully transparent. It also has optional mounting brackets. The new size allows us to reroute a couple of the components in a more efficient manner as well.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Sep 29, 2016, 12:34:41
Excellent!
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: farmer92 on Sep 29, 2016, 13:23:30
When do you expect to have these ready? Would love to pick one up for the titan.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Sep 29, 2016, 13:35:19
When do you expect to have these ready? Would love to pick one up for the titan.

They should be ready about a year ago... :P

We've missed quite a few of the deadlines that we set and getting these out to market is taking longer than I thought.

I'll keep everyone updated. At the moment, I'm not expecting any more significant revisions. I have some new enclosures on order and eyhonda is working on the new board layout. We should know within a few weeks whether or not this new enclosure will work for us.

Assuming it will get the job done, I need to place an order for more enclosures as well as provide the manufacturer with the drilling points. We also need to have the PCBs printed and then the boards assembled.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: farmer92 on Sep 29, 2016, 13:48:19
Sounds good
I will definitely keep watch, best of luck
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Sep 29, 2016, 14:06:10
Have been patiently waiting!
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: 3DogNate on Sep 29, 2016, 23:53:17
Hey can I request the addition of auto cancelling turn signals? Just kidding... I like the concept... looking forward to using it in a future build.


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Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Sep 30, 2016, 10:14:09
Hey can I request the addition of auto cancelling turn signals? Just kidding... I like the concept... looking forward to using it in a future build.

Maybe at some point. :)

We'd need to incorporate a digital speedometer to make it all work, though. :P
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Oct 28, 2016, 12:01:57
New cases and boards have come back. Assembly underway!
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Oct 28, 2016, 12:07:36
Sweet.
Can't wait to own one!
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Tim on Oct 28, 2016, 19:15:17
Sign me up - I need one for the BMW.  My + battery terminal:

(http://www.paragonstl.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/preobremenjena_vticnica.jpg)
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: farmer92 on Oct 28, 2016, 19:37:36
Awwwww yeeeaaahhh
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Dec 16, 2016, 13:14:48
How is this coming along?
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Dec 16, 2016, 14:05:46
I need to get my butt back in gear. Haven't touched it in a few weeks.

The newest board layout is pretty good and the enclosures we have will work. Just need to see if the manufacturer will modify them for us.

I was also tinkering with the idea of leaving the cases unmodified and allowing the end user to drill out only the sections they plan to use (in case they don't want all of the circuits).

Your guys' thoughts?
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Maritime on Dec 16, 2016, 14:44:06
the let the user drill option is probably a good one. I have the panels of the GL to prep over winter for proper paint, and to fix my rushed wiring and the little blue LED is always shining away in the shop, I kind of like that, it lets me know the bike is there and ready to go come spring.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: ridesolo on Dec 16, 2016, 16:45:41
I was also tinkering with the idea of leaving the cases unmodified and allowing the end user to drill out only the sections they plan to use (in case they don't want all of the circuits).

Your guys' thoughts?

That sounds excellent to me. Makes things a bit more generic and one-size-fits-all.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Habanero52 on Dec 16, 2016, 17:12:17
Let the user modify as needed.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: eyhonda on Jan 02, 2017, 10:52:49
I prefer to modify for my own application.   I just got a mill and retrofitting it for CNC.  So it will be a good mod to experiment with.
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 02, 2017, 14:29:49
Well... it's about damn time.

http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=72850
Title: Re: Introducing the Sparck Moto FB-11
Post by: Sonreir on Jul 18, 2017, 00:45:24
Last call for pre-sale!

http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=72850.msg879830#msg879830