DO THE TON

Blood Sweat Tears and Grease => HELP! 1-800-CAFE-HELP => Topic started by: cb360j on May 09, 2018, 22:17:21

Title: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 09, 2018, 22:17:21
Background Story:

Iím newer to the world of Vintage Motorcycles, having had newer Ducatiís but never anything old enough that the dealership didnít work on... shame on me as Iím an engineer and should be doing more. The bike is a 1976 cb360 I got from my neighbor for free, and I decided to just do a full rebuild.

I did all the frame work I wanted, put on a cool snazzy new seat and repainted the frame. Had the cylinders bored in order to put .50 over wiseco pistons in due to the rings being stuck to the old pistons. I am now in the process of reassembling the engine before I put it back into the frame, put the pistons in, cylinders on, head on, all bolted down according to spec.
Now it is time to put the valve covers on, I filled the oil baths with oil and put the gasket sealer from common motor collective, then proceeded to place the valve cover on and bolt it to spec. Before I put the valve cover on, the engine turned freely and I heard air coming from the cylinders. Obviously with the valve covers off, the rocker arms were not pushing down on the valves. The problem is that the engine will spin about half a rotation till it comes to a dead stop, not trying to bend a valve, I donít push down on it any harder and I take the valve cover back off.


Here is my thought process so please help me with this and correct me where I am wrong: the valve cover off means the engine can spin freely with no worries of the valves coming in contact with the engine. When the valve cover on, the rocker arms push the valves down and cause them to come in contact with the piston causing the engine to not complete itís stroke. Assuming the timing is off, or the valves need adjustment, Is this a problem I need to address with the valve cover off? If so, how do I go about this. Thank you in advance.



Here is some pictures of the bike in its current state in case yíall wanted to throw some opinions at that too Haha
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on May 09, 2018, 22:22:43
Sounds like cam timing is off or you didn't tighten cam sprocket  bolts fully?
Trek will be along shortly  8)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 09, 2018, 22:32:23
Sounds like cam timing is off or you didn't tighten cam sprocket  bolts fully?
Trek will be along shortly  8)



Youíre one of the people I was really hoping would help with this.
The bolts are tightened all the way. One thing I wasnít sure of as I couldnít find it in the service manual, is if there is a correct orientation that the cam sprocket should bolt to the cam, one side or the other?

How do I go about setting cam timing?

Thank you!
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: irk miller on May 10, 2018, 08:51:43
You need to align the two hash marks on the cam sprocket with the top edge of the head when the motor is at TDC.  Please confirm this is the case.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on May 10, 2018, 11:15:57
put left cylinder at TDC then it's just a matter of lining up cam sprocket lines with gasket face. Don't rotate crank, you 'walk' chain around sprocket and when it's in correct position (with front run tight) it will slip onto cam. then rotate cam to line up bolt holes
Just downloadedm picture so I could enlarge it. Looks like cam timing is way off?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 10, 2018, 11:39:45
I will be doing this as soon as I get home from work. Thank you all
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 10, 2018, 21:50:30
put left cylinder at TDC then it's just a matter of lining up cam sprocket lines with gasket face. Don't rotate crank, you 'walk' chain around sprocket and when it's in correct position (with front run tight) it will slip onto cam. then rotate cam to line up bolt holes
Just downloadedm picture so I could enlarge it. Looks like cam timing is way off?



I set the left cylinder to top dead center, then did as you said to walk the chain around the cam till the hash marks arenít aligned with the face of the head surface. I put the cover back on and whenís rotating it still slightly catches. Iím not entirely sure if this is correct or not still. Any insight?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: irk miller on May 10, 2018, 21:58:37


I set the left cylinder to top dead center, then did as you said to walk the chain around the cam till the hash marks arenít aligned with the face of the head surface.
   walk the chain around the cam till the hash marks are aligned with the face of the head surface.  Is that a typo?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 10, 2018, 22:18:14
Haha! Yes that is a typo.

So I restarted undid the bolts to the sprocket and took then cam chain tensioner out.

Here is my steps

Put tensioners in place.
Align Left top dead center
Align sprocket hawk marks
Tighten down sprocket bolts
Install cam chain tensioner holder
Put cover on just to see if anything was better but it still is catching.
Thoughts?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: irk miller on May 10, 2018, 23:52:01
Can you see where it is catching?  It could be a lot of things, and without any idea where the catch originates from it will be hard to figure out.  What does your cam chain tensioner look like, out of curiosity?  There will be loops at the bottom and the top.  Which way do they go?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 11, 2018, 01:16:40
I canít see where itís catching as the valve covers are on when this is happening.
The cam chain tensioner is brand new.

Here is the way the tensioners are put in before I put the tensioner cover on.

Let me cover my bases here:
- the left cylinder is set to top dead center when the ďLTĒ mark is aligned.
- and the hash marks should be completely horizontal to the head surface (top side).
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: MiniatureNinja on May 11, 2018, 02:34:08
spins freely without the top cover on?

what does that tacho drive look like?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 11, 2018, 10:23:30
Correct, spins freely without top cover on. But when it is on, I will rotate the crank the correct direction and about a half rotation later it will stop and not want to move further. I should have looked at what position this was happening to give a better reference.

Tachometer drive gear is perfectly fine. Spins freely, does not seem to have anything wrong.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on May 11, 2018, 10:49:57
Do you have thrust washer on cam end? (right side)
It's unlikely but rocker pressure could push cam sideways enough to make things 'catch' ?
You did back off all the tappet adjusters so there was no possibility of them catching on top of valve stems?
It is possible to bend tops of valves enough for them to stick in guides (unlikely but possible)
You did have the front run of chain tight? (all the slack at rear where tensioner lives)
Can you see any 'witness marks' of something catching? (sprocket is 'flat' against mounting flange)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 11, 2018, 11:19:01
Do you have thrust washer on cam end? (right side)
It's unlikely but rocker pressure could push cam sideways enough to make things 'catch' ?
You did back off all the tappet adjusters so there was no possibility of them catching on top of valve stems?
It is possible to bend tops of valves enough for them to stick in guides (unlikely but possible)
You did have the front run of chain tight? (all the slack at rear where tensioner lives)
Can you see any 'witness marks' of something catching? (sprocket is 'flat' against mounting flange)



I do not have a thrust washer, and in all honesty, have not heard of this but I will be reading of this immediately. Is this something that is required?

No, I did not back off the tappet adjusters, but I will be doing so as soon as possible.

Correct, front run of chain is tight.

No witness marks of anything. I do not understand what you mean by the sprocket being flat against mounting flange though.


Again, thank you to everyone who has helped thus far.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: irk miller on May 11, 2018, 11:25:27
In the first pic, it appears that your cam chain is all the way at the edge of the tensioner.  This is likely due to the missing thrust washer.  The thrust washer takes up the slack from a small gap at the end of the cam.  You should've had to remove it along with your cam.  But, as PJ would know better, this may have been a service bulletin and not originally installed at the factory.  I can't remember.  Pretty sure he's suggesting that it's possible that the bolts or some part of the cam mount for the cam sprocket is hitting the head.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on May 11, 2018, 11:45:25
I've seen one or two with burrs and nicks on cam flange causing sprocket to run out of true, a couple have 'bent' flanges (pretty much just about to break) making chain 'run out' never seen one bad enough to 'lock' motor though.
Can you post pic of inside of rocker cover?
Just in case it's something simple. ;D
If motor turns over with tappets backed out level to rocker arm, cam timing is still 'off'
You can adjust them one at a time to see which is causing problem then pull head and check that valve is OK.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 11, 2018, 16:13:48
I've seen one or two with burrs and nicks on cam flange causing sprocket to run out of true, a couple have 'bent' flanges (pretty much just about to break) making chain 'run out' never seen one bad enough to 'lock' motor though.
Can you post pic of inside of rocker cover?
Just in case it's something simple. ;D
If motor turns over with tappets backed out level to rocker arm, cam timing is still 'off'
You can adjust them one at a time to see which is causing problem then pull head and check that valve is OK.


In my "infinite" wisdom (complete sarcasm) of my 22 year old self, I somehow skipped over the thrust washer part in the manual.. shame on me.
It is quite possible I took it off when initially removing the cam and then forgot to put it in, but I do not remember the cam having one.

As soon as I get home I will post picture of inside of the rocker cover, it would be a blessing if it was something simple haha.

backing out the tappets is just adjusting valve lash all the way out correct?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on May 11, 2018, 16:51:21
Backing adjusters out gives about 3~4mm 'lash' and should allow motor to turn over even if cam timing is still out
Adjust one valve to spec (0.003" ex, 0.002" int) and turn it over.
If you post a pic of cam position before fitting cover I should be able to tell if cam timing is right. I have pictures of 'degree'sd in' cam in m y 360 build/blog so you can see how it should look.
http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=11736.150
Reply 159
 You do have the top tensioner holder in place?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on May 11, 2018, 17:44:32
It might also be worth noting that you should have the followers in the "down" position when you put the rocker cover on. Otherwise the tappets might lodge beside the valves instead of sitting over them. This would cause the whole assembly to lock up and possibly bend a valve stem.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 12, 2018, 19:22:01
Ok. I am infact blind, because I had the thrust washer in a bag beside me even labeled. Installed it. Re positioned crank and cam timing. Here are the pictures you asked for pj

Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on May 12, 2018, 20:28:38
Thrust washer goes on other end of cam.Where is the tensioner top cup?Looks like you need to re-set tensioner as well, bit too much of tensioner blade sticking up.What your describing is what happens when early style blade breaks. I`m suspecting you don`t have top cup fitted?BTW, you never try to fit rocker cover without removing inspection caps and backing off adjusters.It's easier to do while taking things apart
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: MiniatureNinja on May 12, 2018, 20:40:20
Also with LT lined up, left cam lobes should be down, correct?

Sent from my SM-G955U using DO THE TON mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89466)

Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on May 12, 2018, 20:51:19
Also with LT lined up, left cam lobes should be down, correct?

Sent from my SM-G955U using DO THE TON mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89466)

Yes, it's being assembled on overlap
It's so 'automatic' for me I've had to really think if it makes a difference.
Too 'brain dead' from looking after Jaxon but I think it does.Well spotted
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 13, 2018, 18:05:37
Cam timing officially set correctly. Lobes in down position. Washer on correct side. Valve tappets backed all the way out, engine spins freely now. Not as freely as it would with the head cover off, this is my only reference to how it spins now. In my experience with automobile engines they tend to turn freely so Iím not sure if the engine is now correct or not.
Problems:

Installing the cam chain tensioner, as in the manual the tensioner is sticking to far up as pj pointed out, but it seems to be in the correct position. How is this solved, or are there any problems associated with this?

Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: MiniatureNinja on May 13, 2018, 20:21:37
the tensioner needs to be backed off... which can be done by splitting the case open, not fun.

the alternative is to source a length of 3mm threaded rod, make a loop in one end of it, and then use the other ended to thread into the tensioner through the case plug - use the loop to pull the tensioner out (with the top adjusting lock bolt backed off) and then tighten up the lock bolt.

EDIT: here is the thread on how to do it (http://www.hondatwins.net/forums/1-project-logs/218-cb-360-project-42.html#post36934)
I wish I knew what happened to Lethal and his 360... strange when someone you feel connected to (though never met) disappears
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on May 13, 2018, 21:01:32
Instead of threaded rod I've used old spokes, surprisingly, Honda ones from 70's don't work as they are 1/8" Whitworth thread. Harley |Davidson uses metric
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 14, 2018, 00:05:01
How exactly does this work?
Just curious as I donít know what the tensioner looks like inside of the case.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: MiniatureNinja on May 14, 2018, 02:25:10
How exactly does this work?
Just curious as I donít know what the tensioner looks like inside of the case.
It's a spring loaded c shaped kinda wacky thingy. The top "adjuster" locks it into place, so if you did what I did and backed it off and then did the tensioner it will spring to the most closed or "up" position
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 14, 2018, 10:46:32
It's a spring loaded c shaped kinda wacky thingy. The top "adjuster" locks it into place, so if you did what I did and backed it off and then did the tensioner it will spring to the most closed or "up" position

So when doing this, is there anything in particular to watch out for ?

Let me get my understanding correct. With the adjusting bolt out, I am threading what is essentially another bolt into the tensioner push bar, then pulling it? Any particular distance it needs to come out? Or will there be any clicking or details indicating that this is done correctly?

Sorry for my ignorance on this, just trying to learn what I can.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: MiniatureNinja on May 14, 2018, 10:56:33
So when doing this, is there anything in particular to watch out for ?

Let me get my understanding correct. With the adjusting bolt out, I am threading what is essentially another bolt into the tensioner push bar, then pulling it? Any particular distance it needs to come out? Or will there be any clicking or details indicating that this is done correctly?

Sorry for my ignorance on this, just trying to learn what I can.
Just pull it out as much as you can, then sinch up the lock bolt. Once you get the motor timed correctly and back together, you back off that lock bolt and you'll hear the tensioner snap into place, then do your rocket clearances, then do the ignition timing
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on May 14, 2018, 11:45:09
If you do a quick search for CB360 cam chain tensioner recall it should come up with multiple posts of the Honda Service Bulletin
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 23, 2018, 01:02:50
Sorry for the late response. But update time: fixed the cam chain tensioner, therefore every is now together as it is supposed to be. Going to be putting into the frame this week! Will post pictures when in. Thank you all so much for the help
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jun 25, 2018, 01:09:19
Alright very late post. The headers that came with the bike do not seem to be the correct headers. Or maybe the flanges that came with it are not correct, as they donít hold the headers on (havenít noticed this as I havenít even looked at them since I got the bike itself). But here is a bunch of pictures of the bike now.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: MiniatureNinja on Jun 25, 2018, 01:24:30
there is a two piece collar that the flange butts against to hold the header in place

part 2 on the diagram

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTMGa56QmbSIM9SNRAxWw4G9JzDFbrIVDPuWw0QP1C29Exr81Qw)

(http://www.hondatwins.net/forums/attachments/67408d1445694144-does-look-right-picture-header-opening-cb360-img_20151024_103005.jpg)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jul 09, 2018, 15:51:45
So originally when I pulled the engine, I backed off the rear brake adjuster nut and just pulled out the rod and from there the pedal was able to move down enough to pull the engine out. Now that I am putting it back together, I put the adjuster nut back on and tightened it down but when I push the pedal down it will not 1: return back up, and 2: the rear brake will not engage.
Anyone have any insight as to how I may be doing this incorrectly?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Jul 09, 2018, 16:28:38
If you didn't take brake mechanism off frame you shouldn't be having a problem. Sounds like return spring behind frame tube isn't fitted right or could possibly be over stretched? More pictures  ;D
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jul 09, 2018, 17:28:42
Will do as soon as I get off work.

Also, I happen to love the rusty gold on the gas tank but the inside is also rusty. Any methods to clean this out?
Autozone sells some stuff called EvapoRust but have not given it a try.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Jul 09, 2018, 17:42:31
Trek swears by it. You need to knock the worst off first, I`ve heard short `deck screws` work real well to get all the `nooks and crannies` ;)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jul 11, 2018, 22:41:11
Fixed the break issue, the spring just wasnít on, I swear I should be more observant before I post on here.

New issue:

Just installed the clutch cable, and did as the FSM said to the T. But the bike is in a constant Ďneutralí, I can change the gears freely without pulling the clutch. Also, the lever will not return.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: MiniatureNinja on Jul 11, 2018, 22:57:08
Fixed the break issue, the spring just wasnít on, I swear I should be more observant before I post on here.

New issue:

Just installed the clutch cable, and did as the FSM said to the T. But the bike is in a constant Ďneutralí, I can change the gears freely without pulling the clutch. Also, the lever will not return.

make sure you're not missing the actuation rod ball bearing (it's very common to fall out while servicing or long periods of being apart)

(http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=64144.0;attach=135492)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jul 11, 2018, 23:12:19
The ball bearing is certainly there. One thing Iím not sure of, is when you correctly tighten the clutch, what do you do with the top adjuster nut? Do you tighten it back down? It didnít specify in FSM
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jul 12, 2018, 00:32:34
Another random question: if a motorcycle is not running, are the intake valves open or closed?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: irk miller on Jul 12, 2018, 00:45:02
Depends on where it is in the stroke at rest.  Could be one or the other or neither.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sderbyshire on Jul 12, 2018, 05:52:26
Another random question: if a motorcycle is not running, are the intake valves open or closed?

Depends where the cam was when the engine stopped.

All valves could be closed, or any other combination!
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: jpmobius on Jul 12, 2018, 09:09:53
There are 2 adjustments to the clutch.  One is only for the cable itself.  The other is the throw out mechanism, and is the one on the side cover (not on the cable).  First, with the side cover off, the clutch should be engaged (like the lever is not being squeezed.)  You can check this by putting the transmission in any gear and seeing that the the engine tries to turn when you turn the rear wheel.  With the cover still off, squeeze the lever and observe it functions normally though with very little effort as you are only pulling on the throw out return spring.  You can look at this function inside the cover.  Also notice that when you pull in the lever, the throw out moves in and out as well as rotates.  This in and out motion is what pushes the clutch plates apart, disengaging it and allowing the engine to spin without driving the transmission and hence, the rear wheel.  In the center of the throw out mechanism, there is a short threaded shaft that is the adjustment for the throw out.  It is needed to allow for the accumulated manufacturing tolerances of the clutch pack, the case dimensions and all the other components that make up the clutch throw out components.  Take the lock nut loose, and unscrew the adjusting shaft a good ways.  If the parts are crusty and the adjuster does not turn freely, take it back apart and clean everything so it does.  Reinstall the side cover, and the lever should still have the same tension as before - just the return spring.   Screw in the adjuster until you feel resistance.  The resistance occurs when all the slack is removed from the assembly and the clutch starts to disengage.  You don't want this unless you are pulling the lever, so once you feel all the slack is gone, back the adjusting screw out 1.4 to 1/2 turn and lock it in place with the lock nut.  After this is done, adjust the cable.  This is similar in that you want almost all the slack out of the cable, but not so tight that you have the clutch partially disengaged.  You should have about 1/4" of motion at the end of the lever before you feel the strong resistance of starting disengaging the clutch.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: MiniatureNinja on Jul 12, 2018, 14:35:41
Also make sure the cam part is in there correctly, getting stuck engaged may be because the cutout is in the wrong spot causing it to rub on the notch
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jul 12, 2018, 22:29:47
I adjusted the cable over and over, still nothing. Their strange thing, it changes gears without pulling the clutch lever. When it goes into gear, the tire does not spin.... so someone guide my thinking here, but if the clutch is in theory engaged, and allowing the transmission to go through the gears, then wouldnít the rear wheel spin when itís in gear?
 Thank you all for the help btw, I really appreciate it
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: MiniatureNinja on Jul 12, 2018, 23:36:11
I adjusted the cable over and over, still nothing. Their strange thing, it changes gears without pulling the clutch lever. When it goes into gear, the tire does not spin.... so someone guide my thinking here, but if the clutch is in theory engaged, and allowing the transmission to go through the gears, then wouldnít the rear wheel spin when itís in gear?
 Thank you all for the help btw, I really appreciate it

it's a sequential gearbox, it will shift with the clutch engaged or disengaged

generally the trans/engine needs to be in motion for the bike to shift up past say 2nd or 3rd.

im going to go with PJs instincts and suggest that the clutch may not be properly assembled and engaging.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jul 13, 2018, 10:24:55
I should have rebuilt the clutch from the start, do not know what I was thinking.
What else should I go ahead and replace while I am down there? Any particular brand of clutch I should get?


Another question: Should The clutch be adjusted when the bike is in gear or out of gear? Or does it even matter?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: jpmobius on Jul 13, 2018, 12:51:13
There is no actual adjustment to the clutch itself, only to the throw out mechanism that operates it.  If you have not had the clutch apart, probably it is ok.

Take the left cover back off (the one with the throw out mechanism on it)  While spinning the back wheel, put the transmission in any gear.  The wheel should stop because it is now connected to the engine which is not turning.  If it spins when in gear, there is likely a problem with the clutch. 
If it stops, leave it in gear and put the cover back on.  If the wheel will now spin, it is because there is an issue with the throw out causing the clutch to be disengaged simply by being installed.  Leave the cover on making sure all the bolts are installed and correctly tightened, and take the cable off at the hand lever so it will not interact with the throw out adjustment.  Adjust the throw out by loosening the lock nut and backing out the adjuster until it no longer is pushing on the push rod.  The clutch should now be engaged and the wheel will no longer be able to spin.  Screw the adjuster in and out until you feel where is just contacts the push rod, then back off 1/4 turn.  Hold the adjuster in place and tighten the lock nut.  The throw out is now adjusted and will not need further adjustment until you start riding the bike.   Now put the cable back on and adjust.

You transmission is not designed to work unless it is spinning so do not try to force it into any gear unless it is.  There is a lot of free play between the engagement dogs of all the gears, so it often happens that a gear can be selected even if the gears are not turning, but it is not intended to be put in any gear while stationary.  This is why sometimes it will readily click into gear, and other times will seem to do nothing.  If you turn the rear wheel, it will always click right into gear.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jul 13, 2018, 15:11:44
When the cover is off, i can put it in gear and the wheel will not spin. When I place the cover back on, the wheel will still not spin. So does this mean it is likely that the throw out is fine?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: irk miller on Jul 13, 2018, 15:59:41
The outside of your clutch basket is geared and linked to your crankshaft.  The inside of the basket is linked to your counter sprocket. When you pull the cable, the mechanism on the left side of the motor rotates up onto ball bearings, which pushes the rod through motor and pushes the inside part of the clutch basket out, which releases pressure from the plates.  The at rest position of the clutch is for the plates to be engaged, thus allowing the interior and exterior components of the clutch to spin together.  If your wheel doesn't move because the motor is at rest and the transmission engaged, that means your clutch mechanism is not engaging. 
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jul 13, 2018, 16:43:24
The outside of your clutch basket is geared and linked to your crankshaft.  The inside of the basket is linked to your counter sprocket. When you pull the cable, the mechanism on the left side of the motor rotates up onto ball bearings, which pushes the rod through motor and pushes the inside part of the clutch basket out, which releases pressure from the plates.  The at rest position of the clutch is for the plates to be engaged, thus allowing the interior and exterior components of the clutch to spin together.  If your wheel doesn't move because the motor is at rest and the transmission engaged, that means your clutch mechanism is not engaging.


So if the clutch mechanism is not engaging, would the next step be to pull the cover off the other side and ensure that the clutch discs are not seized together or to ensure the clutch rod is pushing in the correct place?
If my understanding is correct, the clutch rod simply just runs through the transmission and can be removed quite easily by pulling it straight out?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: irk miller on Jul 13, 2018, 16:56:05
Yep.  It's just a straight rod.  If the bike sat a long time, then there is a strong possibility the discs are stuck together.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jul 13, 2018, 20:42:59
Well, took the clutch pack apart. The front couples of discs werenít stuck together but the back ones were for sure. Put them in some oil and they came apart but will probably buy a new one anyway.

Maybe try to find a CJ oil pickup while Iím at it in here.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: raptormeat on Jul 17, 2018, 02:58:39
I should have rebuilt the clutch from the start, do not know what I was thinking.
What else should I go ahead and replace while I am down there? Any particular brand of clutch I should get?


Another question: Should The clutch be adjusted when the bike is in gear or out of gear? Or does it even matter?

why you are in the bottom end, replace the kickstart plate with one from a cj360 instead, they are more robust and designed to let you kickstart every time for the life of the bike. everyone has same issue, kickstart rattle once the plate fails. .. also doubling up on one of the springs is harmless.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jul 17, 2018, 09:13:32
Because the clutch wasnít engaging, Iím not necessarily in the bottom end. Just have the the side cover off while replacing clutch pack.

Doubling up on springs?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Jul 20, 2018, 12:44:51
'double up on springs' ? I've got no idea either. If plates were stuck, clutch wouldn't disengage. If it wasn't engaging (no drive) the assembly was wrong or adjustment too tight by a LOT. Heavy duty clutch springs are worthwhile but I've never understood the 'throw new parts and hope that cures things' majority seem to use. Clutch springs were barely adequate when new, if plates are in spec and not burned, no point in changing them.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jul 20, 2018, 13:04:55
'double up on springs' ? I've got no idea either. If plates were stuck, clutch wouldn't disengage. If it wasn't engaging (no drive) the assembly was wrong or adjustment too tight by a LOT. Heavy duty clutch springs are worthwhile but I've never understood the 'throw new parts and hope that cures things' majority seem to use. Clutch springs were barely adequate when new, if plates are in spec and not burned, no point in changing them.

It was no longer in spec which is why I went ahead and ordered new with heavier springs as well. Plates were stuck (even after soaking in oil for a couple days), so it would not disengage.
I pulled the clutch rod and cleaned it well because the sprocket side was nasty. Cleaned the sprocket cover, and took the clutch mechanism apart (where the ball bearing is) and cleaned it well and added new grease just to make sure it is working properly. Now once I install the new clutch everything should work properly.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sderbyshire on Jul 20, 2018, 14:31:58
Good luck with the clutch, hope it works out.

Where did you source heavy duty clutch springs, i need some for my 390 and have only found ebc here in the uk which i am doubtful of.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jul 20, 2018, 15:56:35
Good luck with the clutch, hope it works out.

Where did you source heavy duty clutch springs, i need some for my 390 and have only found ebc here in the uk which i am doubtful of.


Thank you! I really hope it works as well.

I got my clutch and springs from Barnett Clutches and Cable, this is the link http://www.barnettclutches.com/251/honda/0/0/1975-honda-cb360-g,t.html
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: raptormeat on Jul 20, 2018, 22:24:02
(https://images.cmsnl.com/img/partslists/honda-cb360-sport-1974-usa-handle-switchlevercable_bighu0231f9001_539f.gif)

as a side note, if you remove #25 from this picture, you will never have the dreaded clutch pop again. also allows for a motion pro clutch cable, rather than oem, as that also causes it. (too long outer sheath compared to inner cable).  makes for a nice light squeeze to disengage.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jul 20, 2018, 23:14:34
Remove the lock nut from the clutch adjustment screw?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: MiniatureNinja on Jul 21, 2018, 00:21:35
The locknut has nothing to do with anything other than keeping the adjusting barrel screw properly adjusted.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Jul 21, 2018, 14:16:21
The locknut has nothing to do with anything other than keeping the adjusting barrel screw properly adjusted.
+1  Correct thing to do is remove ferrule and shorten outer cable
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jul 23, 2018, 20:28:56
Anything special I should do before installing new clutch?

Here are some stupid questions

Does the friction plate go in first or does the other plate go in first?
Should the clutch rod be pushed in or out? (Assuming in)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Jul 23, 2018, 21:07:40
Soak friction plates in engine oil for 24 hrs. Steel plate should be at back of clutch hub then friction, steel, etc
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jul 23, 2018, 21:10:47
I had read somewhere that it was friction plate first. Glad I asked.
Is there a particular torque the bolts need to go down to in the pressure plate?

Plates have been soaking since yesterday
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Jul 24, 2018, 12:48:56
The number 1 plater is thicker and 'fixed' to the hub so a friction is first 'movable' plate. I'll get a pic for you
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jul 24, 2018, 13:04:24
Yeah I think I learned that as of yesterday. I went to put on the steel plate first then friction etc. and got to the end and realized there are only 7 steel plates and 8 friction plates so starting with a steel plate first didnít make any sense. So I redid it. All is well now.
Problem Iím currently facing now, yesterday when installing new springs they were more tough to tighten down and one of the bolt head broke off in the clutch basket. Luckily a friend has a parts cb360 he said I can take the basket assembly from
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Jul 24, 2018, 13:10:15
If head broke off it's easy to go from back with 5/64" or 4.5mm drill bit. Usually the bolt will wind out when drill starts cutting.. Check all the bolts for 'necking', very common for them to be stretched as torque is only about 9ft/lbs, they normally get around 14ft/lbs with a 1/4" drive ratchet. It's possible to exceed torque with a 10mm screwdriver socket
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jul 26, 2018, 22:31:41
Got the clutch back together.

Is it possible to have a clutch cable that is to long?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: MiniatureNinja on Jul 26, 2018, 22:44:44
Got the clutch back together.

Is it possible to have a clutch cable that is to long?

they usually are and that's what causes the "clutch pop" (not, as others have said, the adjuster nut)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jul 27, 2018, 09:09:59
Does anyone know of a shorter cable ? Or will I have to modify this one ?

I am sure someone has tried the 3" shorter motion pro cable, is it any good?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Jul 27, 2018, 13:19:23
If you have a Dremel it's dead easy to shorten outer sheath. Use sharp knife to cut around plastic cover, Dremel with cutting wheel through the 'spring' part cutting 'straight' so cable end stays 'flat'(careful not to cut inner wire)' You may need to cut through 1-1/2 coils due the angle they are wound. Unwind' metal piece with 2 pairs pliers, pull plastic out of ferrule and slide ferrule back onto sheath. I usually cut plastic back so ferrule doesn't sit on it as it's a pretty tight fit. (maybe 1/16" inside ferrule so it doesn't look 'bodged') You only need about 1/4" off outer but if you cut more it isn't an issue as there is plenty of adjustment
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jul 27, 2018, 13:33:28
If you have a Dremel it's dead easy to shorten outer sheath. Use sharp knife to cut around plastic cover, Dremel with cutting wheel through the 'spring' part cutting 'straight' so cable end stays 'flat'(careful not to cut inner wire)' You may need to cut through 1-1/2 coils due the angle they are wound. Unwind' metal piece with 2 pairs pliers, pull plastic out of ferrule and slide ferrule back onto sheath. I usually cut plastic back so ferrule doesn't sit on it as it's a pretty tight fit. (maybe 1/16" inside ferrule so it doesn't look 'bodged') You only need about 1/4" off outer but if you cut more it isn't an issue as there is plenty of adjustment

Well it seems more like the outer sheath/shielding is actually to short and the cable inside is actually to long.
With the clutch tightened all the way in, and the adjuster all the way out, it does not rest inside the upper cable adjuster.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jul 27, 2018, 13:50:59
Took the actuator apart to clean... Noticed the three ball bearings that sit inside is gone. Does anyone have those ball bearings or even a new sprocket cover with the entire actuator for sale?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: advCo on Jul 27, 2018, 14:06:21
I had to shorten my cable overall because I ran clip-ons. But I vaguely remember the exposed cable being too long as you stated. Pull the excess cable all teh way to one end and measure from the end of the jacket to the end of the ferrule. IIRC I had to take about 1/4" off that length to make it work (plus the 6" or whatever I removed to accommodate for clipons)

Took the actuator apart to clean... Noticed the three ball bearings that sit inside is gone. Does anyone have those ball bearings or even a new sprocket cover with the entire actuator for sale?

Are you sure its not greased in there? Those balls should not come out of their housing.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jul 27, 2018, 14:13:28
I had to shorten my cable overall because I ran clip-ons. But I vaguely remember the exposed cable being too long as you stated. Pull the excess cable all teh way to one end and measure from the end of the jacket to the end of the ferrule. IIRC I had to take about 1/4" off that length to make it work (plus the 6" or whatever I removed to accommodate for clipons)

Are you sure its not greased in there? Those balls should not come out of their housing.

I have a set of almost flat drag bars on the bike, I did not think that going down only this much would effect the cable so much, would you advise to cut the cable to a shorter length?

Yep, I called my buddy with the parts bike before work and he said his were in there and he would drop off his entire actuator mechanism at the house so no worries there anymore.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: advCo on Jul 27, 2018, 14:14:57
Depends on how much slack you have with your bars and whether or not you can route it to take up said slack. If you can't re-route it to take up the slack then yeah, cut it and solder a new end on.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sderbyshire on Jul 27, 2018, 14:19:30
I have flat Renthal bars on my CB360 ( 390 😀) and routed the standard wiring through them.

It was quite fiddly as the alloy bars have significantly thicker walls, i did not cut the cables.

Steve
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Jul 27, 2018, 14:25:59
Even though there is a 'cage' the beaqrings can come out. Pretty sure you can just fit 1/4" ball bearing (maybe 3/16"?)  I used to do a lot of cycling so I had some sitting around. 1/4" on pushrod, 3/16" in cage. I would fit all 3 just to be on the safe side. You can use 2 pieces of tube to swage the cage and hold bearings in place (3/16" bore, old brake or fuel line?)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jul 27, 2018, 21:39:33
I put everything back together 100%. AND still cannot get the clutch to work properly. When the bike is in gear and the clutch lever is pulled, the wheel will not spin. Does this mean that the actuator isnít pushing the clutch rod enough to compresses the clutch? What on earth am I missing here
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sderbyshire on Jul 28, 2018, 06:12:14
I put everything back together 100%. AND still cannot get the clutch to work properly. When the bike is in gear and the clutch lever is pulled, the wheel will not spin. Does this mean that the actuator isnít pushing the clutch rod enough to compresses the clutch? What on earth am I missing here

Missing ball bearing ?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: jpmobius on Jul 28, 2018, 09:16:17
With everything assembled and the right side cover off to expose the clutch, you should see the pressure plate (the top of the clutch pack) move in and out against the springs when you operate the hand lever.  It is a small but easily observable distance.  There is not usually much you can do to assemble the clutch so it doesn't work aside from installing too many or too thick plates.  If you do not see this motion, either the actuating rod length is too short for some reason ( left cover not tight, ball missing etc.) or the throw out has a problem (missing ball(s) or clock orientation is wrong.  With the left cover off, you should see the throw out rotate near 90o when you pull the hand lever, and should see the mechanism expand the 1/16" ish needed to separate the clutch pack.  With the cover off, the pressure needed to operate the lever is only that needed to overcome the return spring.  The pressure needed with the cover on should be MUCH greater as you now must also compress all the clutch springs.  If you don't see this increase, you are not pushing the clutch apart.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Jul 28, 2018, 16:44:18
Wheel should turn but it won't be free spinning. YWith bike on ground you can rock itto release 'stiction'? You have a lot of surface area, hydraulic drag will be high.You could try holding clutch lever to bar and opening plates with a small flat screwdriver so oil can drain from them
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Aug 03, 2018, 14:20:28
Does anyone have the clutch retainer for sale? Honda part number 22860-286-000.

It is #8 inside the clutch actuator mechanism.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Aug 03, 2018, 14:35:06
As this is the second clutch issue here at present, I would check the sprocket cover lifter mechanism. Looks like the wrong return spring was fitted in the CL build, maybe you have same or similar problem?You'll have to post a link to retainer, as there isn't anything in left side copver but lifter mechanism. The clutch hub retainer is just a 1" circlip
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Aug 03, 2018, 16:08:05
As this is the second clutch issue here at present, I would check the sprocket cover lifter mechanism. Looks like the wrong return spring was fitted in the CL build, maybe you have same or similar problem?You'll have to post a link to retainer, as there isn't anything in left side copver but lifter mechanism. The clutch hub retainer is just a 1" circlip


https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb360tk0-1975-usa_model440/retainer-ball_22860286000/#.W2SNn9JKiUl
this is the part I am looking for.
The spring in mine is original as far as I know, but this part is missing.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Aug 03, 2018, 21:21:52
I have a box of 'junk' I bought off eBay years ago, will take a look through it for one of those. It's possible to just stick 3 bearings (I think 3/16", Honda used a lot of 'inch' parts) into bottom of ramps with grease and assemble for testing. As long as you don't go 'over center' it will work fine
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Aug 04, 2018, 00:23:25
Man PJ if you did Iíd sure be grateful! Hereís a picture of the inside at the moment. Tell me what you think of the spring as well. But Iím almost certain itís stock, been wrong before
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Aug 04, 2018, 14:26:39
Will the bearing retainer from a cl350 work in the 360?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Aug 04, 2018, 15:29:56
Should be same, may even be a better bearing retainer if I remember right. I would completely remove the back piece, just in case some idiot put bearings behind it. I'll be looking for parts in couple of hours, have to go to my other stepdaughters in few mins.If you can't get one and I cant find spare, I'll let you have the one I showed in picrtures (just the bearings part)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Aug 04, 2018, 17:21:22
Just bid on a cl350 actuator on eBay. Comes with entire actuator, plus spring, plus the retainer so hopefully should work if I win
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Aug 04, 2018, 21:44:36
let me know if you end up needing bearing thing
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Aug 04, 2018, 22:11:29
WIll do! Thank you so much
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Aug 06, 2018, 12:35:47
Is there any particular benefit to having brake rotor drilled? Other than slight heat dissipation and looking cool?
Also, I currently have on the bike a master cylinder with the built in brake light pressure switch. Is it better to go with the traditional style or would this be easier/ better?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: MiniatureNinja on Aug 06, 2018, 13:41:49
more about weight than it is about cooling

stainless steel rotor is quite heavy

you're probably go through more brake pads
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Aug 06, 2018, 14:12:10
Pad wear isn't a lot different in my experience. Lighter rotor will help steering and suspension, you only get better cooling if holes are smaller than rotor thickness. Brake works better when wet as you don't get 'steam' layer under pads Slightly less surface area also helps rotor get up to temp faster. I haven't found any real downside to drilled rotors, in fact, old Yamaha's wear pads better with drilled than with plain. I removed about 2lbs on my XS650  by drilling holes. Organic (wet) pads worked fantastic but wore out crazy fast (2,000 miles, more due to my riding style and sand in Florida) I rarely get more than 5,000 miles from front brake pads on any of my bikes. I prefer EBC 'HH' pads when I can get them. As for master cylinder, if switch doesn't get in the way of anything, it makes sense to use an integrated unit. I bought a couple of Brembo pressure switches to use on some of my bikes, easier than stock unions with split lines, plus, one piece brake hose looks better in most cases
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Aug 13, 2018, 11:24:44
Got the retainer in Friday along with an entire extra clutch actuator with all the correct pieces, ebay seller was very kind to send all the bits.

Got it installed, and adjusted. The new springs from barnett make the clutch pull super heavy (compared to my cb550 clutch), for anyone looking for heavier springs.

The only negative side to that is now I have clutch pop. But at least that is a step in the right direction and can be sorted out with enough patience.

Does anyone have a perfect way to definitively adjust out clutch pop? Or will I just have to find that perfect middle point?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Aug 13, 2018, 12:16:10
If you haven't been checking this thread (http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=72090.msg907172#msg907172) you should as it's ame problem your having. I've posted a lot of pictures to try and explain how things should be working
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Aug 13, 2018, 12:19:20
If you haven't been checking this thread (http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=72090.msg907172#msg907172) you should as it's ame problem your having. I've posted a lot of pictures to try and explain how things should be working


Was literally just reading that thread.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Aug 13, 2018, 12:29:06
LOL,  8)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: raptormeat on Aug 14, 2018, 23:42:53
Does anyone have a perfect way to definitively adjust out clutch pop? Or will I just have to find that perfect middle point?
did you try my advice?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Aug 14, 2018, 23:50:42
 Have 'cover' adjuster backed all the way off, set cable so pointer lines up, fit cover and adjust screw so lift mechanism contacts push-rod.I'm pretty sure that's how it was done during assembly  8)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Aug 15, 2018, 15:56:17
raptormeat I actually did not try it. But I did get it to adjust properly so no more pop for me thankfully. Just took about 45 minutes of sitting and really focusing on it ha!

Pj that is pretty much exactly what I did, it helped visualize where the adjustment actually was.

I don't know if anyone has looked at the original picture of how I the bike is, but since the seat was so low profile, I elected to lower the back of the tank for the purpose of making lines flow a little better and because with the original tank mount it looked goofy showing.
So what I did was heat the flange where the rubber originally went and bent it 90 degrees down. Took a simple piece of flat stock and drilled two holes and threaded them, then drilled two holes in the tank flange that is now bent and I took two screws that go through them and screw into the new mount.

It was kind of a good idea at the time, but I want something a little cooler and maybe more simple. How do most of you mount your fuel tanks?

I was thinking of using a similar concept, making the flange slightly larger and using one of the quicklatch hoodpins for cars. Thoughts?

Here is the link for what I am talking about
https://www.quik-latch.com/black-anodized-mini-quik-latch.html
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: yorkie350 on Aug 21, 2018, 10:03:32
Hi bud sorry to steal ya thunder but just put yozzer74 gs550 up for BOTM cos I was able to post the pics hope ya vote too bud its a cool looking ride for sure hope I get to see it in the flesh not too many miles from me
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Aug 21, 2018, 10:11:18
Hi bud sorry to steal ya thunder but just put yozzer74 gs550 up for BOTM cos I was able to post the pics hope ya vote too bud its a cool looking ride for sure hope I get to see it in the flesh not too many miles from me

No don't be sorry, I'm glad he got nominated!
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Sep 20, 2018, 12:37:30
Does anyone have any recommendations as to which shocks are best for the cb360? What length as well?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Sep 20, 2018, 14:56:52
Modified RFY are about the best I've found. Can't remember length off hand
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Sep 20, 2018, 15:12:29
Does anyone have any recommendations as to which shocks are best for the cb360? What length as well?

Hagons are nice. 330mm eye to clevis is what you'll need.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: irk miller on Sep 20, 2018, 15:42:06
+1.  I put Hagons on both 360's I built.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Sep 20, 2018, 15:44:46
+1.  I put Hagons on both 360's I built.

Where are you guys buying them from?  On the Hagon website I cannot seem to find any 330mm eye to clevis shocks.

I take that back. I was being stupid on the website lol
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on Sep 20, 2018, 20:30:50
I just bought a pair (31011SSC) for the CB400 from DCC as they ship for free. 
I recall they came out to be around $25 cheaper than buying and shipping from UK.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Sep 21, 2018, 10:07:01
I know that going to 330mm raises the rear of the bike making it better handling, but I don't think Hagon makes a shock that is 330mm eye to clevis. Anyone ever call them and have a custom shock, or does going with the 310mm (.80" shorter) make that much of a difference?
The stock 360 was 12" correct?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: irk miller on Sep 21, 2018, 10:20:04
I thought 310mm was stock, which is closer to 12 1/4".
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Sep 21, 2018, 11:14:20
I thought 310mm was stock, which is closer to 12 1/4".

I think you are correct, though, common motor says 12" is stock.  Think going with the 12.20 Hagon would be ok? I live on a gravel road so I am trying to see which would be best for this ever so slight level of off-road.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Sep 21, 2018, 11:20:17
I thought 310mm was stock, which is closer to 12 1/4".

You're probably right. I was going off recommendations from an online seller and not from specs from the actual bike/manual/whatnot.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on Sep 21, 2018, 14:20:18
The hagons on my 360 and cl100 are customs.  Built by Dave Quinn,  but he closed shop. 

DCC advertises custom built Hagon service.

Yes the 12.20 length is perfect.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Oct 03, 2018, 15:01:51
Has anyone ever turned their front brake rotor? Mine has some surface rust, so should I take it to a machinist and have him take the top layer off or would it be ok with stopping for a little bit until the pad naturally wears it down?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Oct 03, 2018, 16:56:00
Just hit it up with some sandpaper or something. Pads will finish cleaning it up. Make sure you degrease it
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: MiniatureNinja on Oct 03, 2018, 22:44:33
Has anyone ever turned their front brake rotor? Mine has some surface rust, so should I take it to a machinist and have him take the top layer off or would it be ok with stopping for a little bit until the pad naturally wears it down?

I had mine milled down to 6mm - shaved 1mm for weight. petty amount of weight I am sure. but at least I can say I did it
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Oct 03, 2018, 22:46:56
If youn find a machine shop that reconditions car flywheels it may be worth having rotor ground flat and thinned to reduce weight. Flywheel grinding is done with a 'Blanchard' grinder.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: pidjones on Oct 04, 2018, 09:44:21
They cut my GL1000 rear at O'Reilly for free. I'm sure they can't do all motorcycle disks, but they can do many. depends on how they mount. Just make sure they get it straight before the first cut. Mine ended up just a tad off, but after about 200 miles it works great. I agree about just sand and go, though. Unless they are bad gouged (mine were).
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Oct 05, 2018, 15:07:28
Got my carbs back from PJ this morning, they look sweet. That dude is a wizard. Anyone run any particular type of inline fuel filter between the petcock and carbs?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Oct 05, 2018, 15:30:41
I run the little cheap tapered ones. Check flow arrow when fitting though as I've seen several where fuel flows into outlet so you can't see dirt  build up. Check tank filter as well although I've never been able to remove one without damage. There is also another filter inside fuel tap sediment bowl that needs checking
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Oct 29, 2018, 11:15:20
Is there any particular 'best' method to putting oil on the k&n pod filters?
Also, any particular time at which it is best to put oil on or even whar type of oil to use?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Oct 29, 2018, 21:43:33
Oiling filters depends on wether you have spray can or oil bottle. With bottle oil, just run it along top of pleatsand let it soak down to bottom. With spray oil, spray along length. Real filter oil is best to use as it stays sticky but there sare now types for foam and cotton filters. I've used PJ-1, Bel-Ray and K&N filter oils. I think the Bell-Ray was best (maybe?) I've also used 'Gunk' or PJ1 chain lube on top pleats. It doesn't soak as well and is a bit thick but does pick up a lot of crap. It seems thinner than majority of chain lubes, in fact I don't ever use PJ-1 on drive chains (long story, had arguments with sales people at various trade shows)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Nov 01, 2018, 00:13:04
Tomorrow Iím taking my bike up to my local hydraulic line shop where they are going to make my front brake likne for me (they owe me a favor since I helped them out with some autocad work). I figured I could measure from master cylinder to brake caliper for the length needed.
Is there a rule on how much slack a line should have in it or a particular length it should be to compensate for the wheel turning?
What is the standard length for a cb360 brake line? 2 piece and single piece
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: advCo on Nov 01, 2018, 09:29:34
I think I used a 27 inch hose direct from M/C to caliper on my 360.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: irk miller on Nov 01, 2018, 09:43:51
Jack it up so the forks go to full extension and let the wheel fall left, then measure.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Nov 13, 2018, 18:20:16
I'm getting antsy waiting for my Sparck Moto Harness so im looking for any excuse to work on something while I wait. Is there any particular tools anyone recommends for electrical work? Or mainly, what types of crimps are common so I can buy the crimping tool.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Nov 13, 2018, 20:29:58
Open barrel is the most common for many bikes and ubiquitous for vintage Japanese.

Our sister company has what you need: http://www.vintageconnections.com/Products/Detail/1
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Nov 13, 2018, 21:03:00
I bought ratchet crimpers several years ago. As they do both crimps at once (wire and insulation) they save some time and effort compared to the single crimp I've been using last 35~40 yrs
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Nov 19, 2018, 13:11:50
Is there a way to 'pre-lube' my engine before first start? I filled the oil baths of course when assembling, but for example when rebuilding a v8 you can spin the oil pump drive and it will send oil through the passages. Is there a way to do this on the 360 engine or will just turning the engine by hand work? Also, even though I put some oil on the cylinder walls before assembly should I put any oil in the cylinders or anything before the start? I have kept everything sealed up, oil in the engine, and plan to change the oil and clean the filter again before starting, then after initial start I will change it again

It has been a long time waiting for me, but first start is soon. Pretty pumped.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Nov 19, 2018, 13:13:39
I usually just button everything up and fill the oil through the valve covers.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Nov 19, 2018, 13:22:01
I usually just button everything up and fill the oil through the valve covers.

Literally just dump oil down the valve covers? All 1.5L of it?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Nov 19, 2018, 13:26:03
Yup. A bit in each of the four covers.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: MiniatureNinja on Nov 19, 2018, 23:40:44
Literally just dump oil down the valve covers? All 1.5L of it?

try and get some oil inside the "baths" that the cam lobes slosh around in. the rest goes in the crankcase
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on Nov 20, 2018, 08:31:57
Is there a way to 'pre-lube' my engine before first start? I filled the oil baths of course when assembling, but for example when rebuilding a v8 you can spin the oil pump drive and it will send oil through the passages. Is there a way to do this on the 360 engine or will just turning the engine by hand work? Also, even though I put some oil on the cylinder walls before assembly should I put any oil in the cylinders or anything before the start? I have kept everything sealed up, oil in the engine, and plan to change the oil and clean the filter again before starting, then after initial start I will change it again

It has been a long time waiting for me, but first start is soon. Pretty pumped.

I just didi this on my 400f before installing the head cover to ensure I had flow for start up. 

I used my battery drill to spin the engine.

http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=75640.msg912360#msg912360
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Nov 20, 2018, 10:04:33
I did fill the oil baths during assembly so.. in theory.. there should be some in there but I will do my best to make sure more gets in. Thank you all for the help.

I wondered if that might work Trek, ill have to try that as well
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Nov 21, 2018, 12:07:53
I can't find a rear brake light switch that is sold with the spring, anyone have a recomendation?

Places I have checked: 4into1, dime city, cmc, sparck moto, cognito moto
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Nov 21, 2018, 12:17:15
Emgo makes a few universal varieties that should do the trick.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Nov 21, 2018, 12:26:06
Emgo makes a few universal varieties that should do the trick.

http://www.nichecycle.com/ncs/categories/electronics/switches/brake-pedal-switches/46-50752-kawasaki-oe-style-rear-brake-light-switch.html

Thank you, that was really helpful. Led me to this. Even though it says its for kawasaki, think this one will work?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: advCo on Nov 21, 2018, 12:27:00
http://www.nichecycle.com/ncs/categories/electronics/switches/brake-pedal-switches/46-50752-kawasaki-oe-style-rear-brake-light-switch.html

Thank you, that was really helpful. Led me to this. Even though it says its for kawasaki, think this one will work?

Should work fine, the only differences may be wire color, connector type and spring length.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Nov 21, 2018, 12:30:02
The spring is the main piece I am trying to find, I can find the switch itself pretty easily but none come with the spring. I have a huge pile of parts so I am going to search through it one more time to make sure the spring is not there before ordering something. Thank yall
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: advCo on Nov 21, 2018, 12:44:44
The spring is the main piece I am trying to find, I can find the switch itself pretty easily but none come with the spring. I have a huge pile of parts so I am going to search through it one more time to make sure the spring is not there before ordering something. Thank yall

Looks like that Kawasaki one you posted comes with a universal spring that you can bend hooks at the ends to suit whatever length you need.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Nov 23, 2018, 01:22:27
Also, even though I put some oil on the cylinder walls before assembly should I put any oil in the cylinders or anything before the start? I have kept everything sealed up, oil in the engine, and plan to change the oil and clean the filter again before starting, then after initial start I will change it again

It has been a long time waiting for me, but first start is soon. Pretty pumped.
Do not put any oil downspark plug holes or anywhere near top ring. If you do, it's doubtful rings will properly bed in with less than 10,000 miles. When engine starts, take it to around 2,000~ 2,500 rpm and hold it there 30 sec. Do not let it idle first  min or so, there isn't enough oil thrown around to lubricate small end. You can 'blip' throttle to 5~6k without doing any harm, without load it isn't being stressed to create too much heat
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Nov 29, 2018, 15:22:33
When I am bored at work I get on solidworks and try to come up with my own designs for certain parts. I am going to attempt to make a top triple clamp, whats the best way to measure the distance between the front forks?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Nov 30, 2018, 18:37:58
You can either look it up (Google) or, measure across outside with calipers then minus 33mm  to get centre to centre
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Nov 30, 2018, 21:40:22
God bless sparck Moto. Alright here come wiring questions. The gauge I have has two wires coming directly off of it, red and black. Red goes to gauge light Iím assuming, but the black wire doesnít have a home.

The ignition coils both have an individual set of wires, one blue and one black. On the harness a black striped single wire says coils. Where should this go?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Dec 01, 2018, 13:11:55
God bless sparck Moto. Alright here come wiring questions. The gauge I have has two wires coming directly off of it, red and black. Red goes to gauge light Iím assuming, but the black wire doesnít have a home.

The ignition coils both have an individual set of wires, one blue and one black. On the harness a black striped single wire says coils. Where should this go?

Black from the gauge is almost definitely a ground wire. Connect to any green in the harness or to bare metal on the bike.

For the coils, the black/white wires are for power and go to the black/white wire in the harness (there should be a double female connector that allows two wires to plug into one). The colored wires on the coils each go to two places. They split and one connection (for each coil) goes to the condensor and one connection goes to the points.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 01, 2018, 13:31:45
Thank you, I completely overlooked the points wires being missing. What gauge of wire would you recommend for making those?

Also, for the starter solenoid to hereís is the yellow/red wire and a green/red wire coming from it, is the green/red just a ground? Where would that connect on the harness
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Rosie on Dec 01, 2018, 14:37:53
WHAT IS THIS PART?

I can't find anything like it in my parts book.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 01, 2018, 14:47:53
Cam chain tensioner arm.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8RLEMngUB63akhfSGpkQVI2QjQ/edit
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Dec 01, 2018, 14:54:41
Thank you, I completely overlooked the points wires being missing. What gauge of wire would you recommend for making those?

Also, for the starter solenoid to hereís is the yellow/red wire and a green/red wire coming from it, is the green/red just a ground? Where would that connect on the harness

18 gauge is fine. Factory is 16 gauge, I think?

Green/red is ground from solenoid, yes. Any green wire in the harness or just connect to bare metal on the bike.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 01, 2018, 17:10:35
So the blue wire needs to be changed to a male bullet connector and the black wires go to the points?
Where does the condenser connect
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Dec 01, 2018, 20:28:01
You shouldn't need to change any of the terminals. The condensor should have male bullet terminals, as should the points wires. The ignition coils should have a double female connector on the blue and yellow ends. Black/white wires from the coils go to black/white wire in the harness.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 02, 2018, 16:31:03
The rear brake light has black, red, and an orange wire.
Would those connect to ground, brake, and tail? Respectively
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Dec 02, 2018, 19:46:15
Probably. You can hook it up and find out. If you get the wires in the incorrect order, it will just work differently (or not at all), so feel free to experiment.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 03, 2018, 09:58:50
Got everything connected and working.
The only thing that is not is the starter. When I push the button I hear the switch but the starter does not turn. Does this mean the starter is bad and needs to be rebuilt? Or should I check for something else.

Thank you everyone for all the help.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: pidjones on Dec 03, 2018, 10:11:06
Could be starter (try bypassing the solenoid directly to the starter terminal with a jumper cable), solenoid (they carry a lot of current and the contacts get burnt), or low battery charge.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 03, 2018, 10:23:33
I should've thought to put the battery charger on when doing that, I will do that as soon as I get home thank you!

Another thing, what is the best method to making points wires? Putting the wire in a ring terminal and putting it in that way? Or is there a special terminal I can get for it?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Dec 03, 2018, 10:50:51
I use these when making the points wires:
http://www.vintageconnections.com/Products/Detail/34

For the side that connects to coils, these will do:
http://www.vintageconnections.com/Products/Detail/13
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 05, 2018, 11:56:51
The master cylinder unit I have sorta turned out to be a piece of junk. When I was clamping it to the bars, alternating between tightening each screw to make sure it fit evenly and clamped well... it stripped the bottom screw hole... because it is cast aluminum vs. a steel screw.
Anybody have any experience with any well made modern master cylinders?  Wilwood actually has a reasonably priced.

https://www.wilwood.com/MasterCylinders/MasterCylinderList?group=Handlebar%20Master%20Cylinder
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Dec 05, 2018, 11:58:10
Never used one, but I've heard of the brand and the picture looks decent.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Dec 05, 2018, 17:16:10
Piston will be too big at 5/8". Never fussed on Willwood on motorcycles, HD used them at one time and they never got sizes matched so brakes were crap. (may have been a design feature?) Nothing wrong with cast master cylinders, just about every single one you'll find is a machined casting, including cars, trucks, buses, etc.. You were just unlucky with the one you had. Contrary to You Tube backyard casting video's, a lot can go wrong with castings  if temperatures, quench, etc are 'wrong'  Grain size, trapped gasses and strength are compromised

Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 05, 2018, 17:22:24
Piston will be too big at 5/8". Never fussed on Willwood on motorcycles, HD used them at one time and they never got sizes matched so brakes were crap. (may have been a design feature?) Nothing wrong with cast master cylinders, just about every single one you'll find is a machined casting, including cars, trucks, buses, etc.. You were just unlucky with the one you had. Contrary to You Tube backyard casting video's, a lot can go wrong with castings  if temperatures, quench, etc are 'wrong'  Grain size, trapped gasses and strength are compromised

You're right, casting can be great. This one happened to suck. I may just try a helicoil till I decide on one I really think is worth the money.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Dec 05, 2018, 17:33:58
I would get it all connected up, filled and bled then keep pressure on it for 24~36 hrs. If it's a bad casting it mat be porous? Would suck even more if that happened and it screwed up paint. (or dismantle it and check bore finish?) I like some of the MX/Enduro M/C but they are normally 11mm bore which is a bit small. They develop a lot of pressure but not much 'feel' with stock caliper (pressure is high enough you can feel caliper flexing open)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 05, 2018, 20:50:20
Current problem found when trying to set ignition timing:

 Iím not getting power to the coils. I checked with multimeter from black and white wire. I checked at the blue and black wires coming from the coils themselves.

Possible issues?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Dec 05, 2018, 21:19:25
Black/white wire gets power from the kill switch on the right control switch. Check to make sure your switch is set to the run position and also that the black wire on the control is plugged into a black wire in the harness.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 05, 2018, 21:24:15
Black/white wire gets power from the kill switch on the right control switch. Check to make sure your switch is set to the run position and also that the black wire on the control is plugged into a black wire in the harness.

Haha itís funny cause I just thought that. The button was switched to the ďonĒ position, so I switched it to the ďoffĒ position and now Iím getting power there. Did I wire something backwards?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Dec 05, 2018, 21:25:42
Possible?

Are you using stock kill switch or an aftermarket one?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 05, 2018, 21:28:25
Using the one you sold me
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Dec 05, 2018, 21:30:14
Dammit. I think I may have sent you one of our CDI ones. You want me to sent the other style?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 05, 2018, 21:33:41
How do I verify if itís one of the cdi styles? Before we do that might as well make sure
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Dec 05, 2018, 22:11:34
If the bike runs in the OFF position, but not in the ON position.

Functionally it will work, but the switch will be backwards.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 05, 2018, 22:14:37
Are there any physical differences? In how the controls look
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Dec 05, 2018, 22:42:54
Minor. I'll grab a pic and send it over in a bit.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Dec 05, 2018, 23:15:11
Haha itís funny cause I just thought that. The button was switched to the ďonĒ position, so I switched it to the ďoffĒ position and now Iím getting power there. Did I wire something backwards?
Really common, switch works 'backwards' for stock 'self generated' CDI ignition. I've mentioned it in several posts over the years that 'OFF' wil be 'ON' and on will be OFF
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 06, 2018, 21:04:39
Anybody ever sheared the kickstart shaft off? Lol
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 06, 2018, 22:30:32
I guess another question is...... do I tear the top end down to rebuild or just split the crank case like the FSM says I can.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: advCo on Dec 07, 2018, 09:14:34
Anybody ever sheared the kickstart shaft off? Lol

That sucks. Pull the engine and flip it over to split the cases without messing with the entire top end...its not necessary.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 07, 2018, 09:58:32
It was a heart breaking moment for sure. At least this gives me the opportunity to figure out what is wrong with the electric start and the static timing.
I was trying to use a test light to verify the timing (like cmc video, or it says you can in the FSM as well) but when turning the engine over i was not getting the light to come on but the points are adjusted correctly, at least to my knowledge. Does this method work every single time? I had the key switch in the on position and was getting power to the coils.

When the solenoid is connected and I push the start button, I hear the solenoid actuate but the starter does not turn. I tried with a battery charger connected, I also tried bypassing the solenoid. The starter is connected to the solenoid, on the ground side, via large black wire. The solenoid gets power from the battery. Am I missing anything? Does the starter need to be grounded to the frame?

As I only kicked the bike over one time.. yep one time.. when the shaft broke so it may not have had the opportunity to get to that point. But I pulled the plugs to see if I was getting fuel to them and none was visible.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 07, 2018, 16:06:48
Just found a kickstarter shaft off ebay. A cl360 shaft will work correct?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Dec 07, 2018, 16:54:15
All the 360's used same shafts. Can't remember about 350's but that doesn't matter when you've got a 360  ;D
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 07, 2018, 16:58:09
Hey Pj, are there any other cables to be connected to the starter other than the big main one? I can't seem to figure out why the starter is not working.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Dec 07, 2018, 17:10:36
Is the solenoid activating? Do you hear the click when you press the starter button?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Dec 07, 2018, 17:13:20
Nope,nothing else You do have solenoid fitted? 4 gauge from solenoide to starter. You can use lighter gauge cable, it needs to be capable of carrying around 75amps. Actual starting current is around 40~45 amps but initial surge is higher.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 07, 2018, 17:55:41
Is the solenoid activating? Do you hear the click when you press the starter button?

Yes I do hear the solenoid activating when I push the start button. Which makes me think I need to rebuild the starter? I just can't think of anything else to do.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Dec 07, 2018, 18:54:50
Grab a wrench and bridge the studs between the solenoid. There may be sparks, but hold it tightly (you won't get shocked). This will bypass the solenoid and should activate the starter motor, if the starter motor is working.

If still not joy, then it's either the starter motor or a dead or dying battery.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 07, 2018, 20:41:39
Grab a wrench and bridge the studs between the solenoid. There may be sparks, but hold it tightly (you won't get shocked). This will bypass the solenoid and should activate the starter motor, if the starter motor is working.

If still not joy, then it's either the starter motor or a dead or dying battery.

Just did that.... no sparks or anything happened.. bad solenoid?
The battery was connected to a battery charger at the time as well. I think the battery is bad all the same. Would it still not spark like that though?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Dec 07, 2018, 21:19:35
Solenoid has internal plastic stop so when contacts burn out you still get 'click' but no contiuity on high amp side. Normal cause of burned out contacts is low battery. Enough power to activate solenoid but not enough to turn motor so 'drops-out' when voltage drops then instantly has enough voltage  to re-connect (the Bzzzzzt  or takatakatak you get with a 'flat' battery)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Dec 07, 2018, 21:23:04
Just did that.... no sparks or anything happened.. bad solenoid?
The battery was connected to a battery charger at the time as well. I think the battery is bad all the same. Would it still not spark like that though?

If the battery is dead (or nearly dead) then you won't get sparks and the starter motor won't turn over. I'd try again with some jumper cables running to your car. Keep the car engine turned off when doing this.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 10, 2018, 16:17:51
For a master cylinder, is it possible to go up in piston size and it still work correctly? Or just stay with stock sizing
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Dec 10, 2018, 18:09:18
you can go up or down 1~1.5mm or 1/16" without too many issues. going bigger generally makes lever feel 'wooden' as you have less lever movement. M/C bore and caliper bore diameter are related. It isn't just how much fluid is moved but the surface area it's acting on.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 12, 2018, 13:41:55
So batteries..
What is the recommended cranking amps for a cb360? 
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Dec 12, 2018, 13:47:07
Anything over 100CCA will do.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 12, 2018, 18:15:01
Hey Sonreir,
Just getting around to hooking the bike up to car battery. Do you mean hook the positive and negative leads to the jumper cables or the battery itself (while still installed in bike)?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Dec 12, 2018, 21:10:27
Hook it up just like you were attempting to jump the bike. Leave the bike battery connected and car turned off. Positive to positive and negative to negative.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 13, 2018, 20:23:54
Hooked it up, no turn over. The solenoid only clicks once. Tried to bridge it with a screw driver and still nothing. Are the brushes just bad in the starter? Have no idea where to go from here.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Dec 13, 2018, 20:57:05
That's my guess. If you can't get the starter motor to turn over with a car battery hooked up and bridging the solenoid, then it's down to one of three things:

1.) Bad starter motor wire from the solenoid to the starter motor
2.) Bad ground back to the battery
3.) Bad starter motor (and/or its internals)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 13, 2018, 21:32:59
Fortunately you gave me two wires from the starter to the solenoid. Iíll give it a shot with the other one when I get home. Wouldnít I just be able to test continuity on the cable and that would rule that out?

Iíll clean the ground spot off even More just to make sure itís not that. But if there is a bad ground, wouldnít the lights not turn on? Cause they all do.

Iíll go ahead and order a starter rebuild kit just for good measure I suppose.
One thing I noticed when I was trying to do static timing, I couldnít get the test light to come on. Is that indicative of anything
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Dec 13, 2018, 23:06:22
Wouldnít I just be able to test continuity on the cable and that would rule that out?

Unfortunately, no. Multimeters don't run enough current to show the "actual" resistance at operation. They can tell you if the cable is bad, but not if it's good.

Quote from: cb360j
Iíll clean the ground spot off even More just to make sure itís not that. But if there is a bad ground, wouldnít the lights not turn on? Cause they all do.

Same issue as the bad cable example above. Headlight pulls a lot less current, so it's less susceptible to resistance in the line.

Ohm's Law is Amps = Voltage / Resistance. Now things break down a little bit because a starter motor is an inductive load, but let's assume a steady 12V and your starter motor pulling 80A. The algebra tells us that resistance would be .15Ω. But if you have too much resistance in the line and you're actually at .25Ω then your starter motor is only getting 48A when it really wants 80A. A little resistance has a huge effect when your current requirements are high. Your headlight (in the stock form) is 35W (12V * 2.9A). So "ideal" resistance for that circuit would be 4.13Ω. What happens if we add .10Ω to that equation like we did with the starter motor? We get a draw of 2.83A, instead. A very small difference.

Quote from: cb360j
One thing I noticed when I was trying to do static timing, I couldnít get the test light to come on. Is that indicative of anything

It would be related to not getting your spark plugs to fire, but not related to the starter motor not working.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 14, 2018, 00:00:16
Fair point. My fluke isnít even reading any resistance on the cable, with it on the high resolution setting lol

At least I made quick work of the engine removal tonight
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Dec 14, 2018, 10:38:55
Fortunately you gave me two wires from the starter to the solenoid. Iíll give it a shot with the other one when I get home. Wouldnít I just be able to test continuity on the cable and that would rule that out?

Iíll clean the ground spot off even More just to make sure itís not that. But if there is a bad ground, wouldnít the lights not turn on? Cause they all do.

Iíll go ahead and order a starter rebuild kit just for good measure I suppose.
One thing I noticed when I was trying to do static timing, I couldnít get the test light to come on. Is that indicative of anything
You could do voltage drop at either end of cable, you could buy a $10.00 automotive Ammeter that goes to at least 60 amps (should be around 45 amps when cranking, probably full range for a second when it first bumps over)You should have bare metal connector on frame behind ignition coil bolt and another at rear engine mount where ground lead fits from battery. It's also a good idea to clean paint off crankcase top rear mounts plus frame inside where motor will be clamped. Original stock cases do not have bottom case painted and ythe front right lower mount has spring washers that cut through paint to provide good grounding (they are always rusty around one bolt hole through bottom)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 18, 2018, 22:22:36
The FSM shows what order the kickstart shaft goes together but not how everything should be oriented.... itís not ratcheting so what am I doing wrong?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Dec 19, 2018, 15:49:53
That wedge shaped piece should  have the plate pulling it back out of engagement. I haven't done one for a while but pretty sure there are punch marks on gear driver and shaft for alignment. You'll have to pull it aoart again to find them (it's not the 'dot' to alighn kick-start lever) Oh, I think the plate and spring are also reversed, it's too far away from 'wedge'
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 21, 2018, 21:17:03
Would it make sense for the kickstart to be put together correctly but not ratcheting because it isnt connected to the gears?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Dec 22, 2018, 16:28:55
maybe, nope
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 26, 2018, 23:11:43
So I have the mechanism put together correctly.
But every time I put the cases back together, which has been twice now. I canít  turn the kickstart over by hand. On my cb550 I can. So it doesnít seem right to me. It feels like it locks up. But if I put a ratchet on the crank then I can turn the entire engine over no problem. Maybe a gear just isnít meshing when it comes together? Is this normal ?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 27, 2018, 00:58:57
Maybe the bike is in gear... ? Would that make sense
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Dec 27, 2018, 23:18:02
The way the kick-start mechanism works is designed tio turn transmission. It should still turn over but will turn output sprocke if in geart. Have you removed spark plugs? I don't think it's possible to turn it over by hand with motor on bench with plugs in. If you have clutch plates removed you should see centre hub turn without any problem though
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 28, 2018, 11:39:58
I haven't actually looked at it yet. But do I need to remove the generator rotor before I can take the starter off, or can it come out without take that apart?
I try to study up on the manual pretty well before heading home from work but it isn't to clear on this.

Also, there is a wire coming from where the neutral switch is connected. As I don't have a neutral indicator, is this wire necessary? Can I just remove it
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Dec 28, 2018, 15:13:54
You can leave rotor in place but you will have starter reduction and one way clutch still in place. You have to remove cover so you can get small sprocket and chain out. It's better if you remove rotor and then 3 #3 scres to remove starter clutch.  http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=11736.0 look at reply #10 for pic of all the parts that get removed. With a smaller battery you have a substantial weight saving (around 13lbs)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Dec 28, 2018, 15:27:00
Well im not trying to eliminate the starter, just removing it for rebuild since I concluded the starter wasn't working. But thank you, that answered the question.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Dec 29, 2018, 15:46:09
You still need to remove cover so you can get small sprocket back onto starter splines
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jan 03, 2019, 11:29:04
Does anyone know what type of screw/thread/length connects the starter to the engine case? The two screws that go in the two left holes in this photo. Not the two really long ones.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Jan 03, 2019, 12:09:41
M6 x 25, not sure about the pitch, but probably 1.25?

When in doubt, check the parts fiche.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Jan 04, 2019, 21:32:57
M6 bolts are 1mm pitch. M8 are 1.25.  Honda mostly used ISO standard threads from around 1967 ((standard was set up in 1965 IIRC? It's mainly to do with the root and crest shape), Honda has some JIS and specials. (JIS fine?)   Almost all of the 10mm threads are also 1.25mm pitch
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jan 08, 2019, 10:05:22
Alright, engine is back in with no assistance from the tired helper in the chair.  Will finish up the wiring tonight and see if I can get it timed and started.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jan 14, 2019, 08:14:16
Hey Sonrier,

I finally got the engine back in and everything is wired up, though I re read through this just now and do not have a bare metal contact behind the ignition coil mounts. So maybe that is the issue.

But last night I went to give the starter a turn again after its rebuild, and unfortunately it still didn't turn.

Things noted now that are different:
-When I push the starter button, the solenoid makes a buzzing noise. Before it would only click once. Is this indicative of the solenoid being fried? I tried to just bridge them with a screwdriver and no turning of starter.
-Still haven't bought a new battery, but I used my tractor jump starter connected to the bad battery at 200A when I tried to turn the engine over and thats when the buzzing came.
-I have the bar controls you sent me that were the cdi buttons, so the kill switch is wired backwards. Would this affect anything?


Could all of this be from a bad/no ground point behind the coils? Everything else works properly (all lights).
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Jan 14, 2019, 11:43:00
The bar controls shouldn't be an issue, no.

With the tractor battery hooked up, does bridging the solenoid studs with a wrench cause the starter motor to turn?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jan 14, 2019, 11:56:11
No sir, no starter turning. Which I thought was sort of weird, usually when the solenoid is bad you can bridge it and the starter will turn.
Wasn't a tractor battery, it was a tractor jump starter/battery charger turned to the 200A selection which is designated for starting purposes.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Jan 14, 2019, 12:05:33
Oh, OK. Just for giggles, do you have a spare 12V battery you can hook up to? Maybe jumper cables from a car (with the engine turned off)?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jan 14, 2019, 12:09:11
Sure do, Ill try it out this afternoon.

Just for knowledge sake, why is there the potential that it will work using a battery? But not the charger
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Jan 14, 2019, 12:11:23
Just to double-check things. I don't have a lot of confidence in plug in jump starters. You'll probably get the same result as before, but I just wanted to rule it out.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jan 14, 2019, 12:12:21
Word. Ill get it checked off when I get off work, thank you
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Jan 15, 2019, 17:21:36


But last night I went to give the starter a turn again after its rebuild, and unfortunately it still didn't turn.

Things noted now that are different:
-When I push the starter button, the solenoid makes a buzzing noise. Before it would only click once. Is this indicative of the solenoid being fried? I tried to just bridge them with a screwdriver and no turning of starter.
-Still haven't bought a new battery, but I used my tractor jump starter connected to the bad battery at 200A when I tried to turn the engine over and thats when the buzzing came.
Could all of this be from a bad/no ground point behind the coils? Everything else works properly (all lights).

'Buzzing' at starter solenoid is usually a sign of bad battery or bad connections  Did you test the starter before fitting it? Just use jumper leads, negative to motor body, + to cable screw, (It's high torque so hold it down in vice of with your foot)  You can do same test with it fitted, make sure bike is in neutral (or on main stand, no drive chain, etc) 
Test starter solenoid on bench. Connect multi-meter on continuity/Ohm's to large battery terminals, apply 12v to the thin wires. pos to Y/R, - neg to G/R. Check continuity across 6mm bolts. Should be very low or zero. The coil ground has no effect on starter circuit, if bad you won't have spark
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jan 21, 2019, 08:06:44
So, both starters turn when 12v dc is applied to them directly. But not when I hook it up through the wiring harness. I ordered a new solenoid just for giggles.

But..... without the spark plugs in, I went to gently push the engine over via kickstart just to make sure it was working properly. And it wont budge at all. Almost drug the bike out and tossed it into the ditch I am so irritated haha.
So I took the engine back out going to tear it back apart this evening to hopefully see something really easy i missed.

I need an engine stand if I am going to be taking this stupid thing out so often. Any recommendations on small honda twin engine stands?

Would the kickstarter potentially affect anything other than just the starting of the bike? When rolling the bike around all gears work properly. 
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jan 21, 2019, 16:28:05
For when I pull the lower case apart again. If i went ahead and disassembled the remaining pieces, is it ok to go ahead and clean the inside and out with hot water and say.. simple green? It's pretty dirty so I figured I might as well.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: advCo on Jan 21, 2019, 16:56:34
For when I pull the lower case apart again. If i went ahead and disassembled the remaining pieces, is it ok to go ahead and clean the inside and out with hot water and say.. simple green? It's pretty dirty so I figured I might as well.

You can use simple green or water based cleaners but I would keep it away from any steel components. I prefer to use mineral spirits as a degreaser for something like this.

So if I'm understanding correctly, your engine turns over by hand (or by the bolt on the crank, stator side) or when you have it in gear and roll it the engine turns over? Just feels like the kickstart mechanism is binding up?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jan 21, 2019, 18:22:15
You can use simple green or water based cleaners but I would keep it away from any steel components. I prefer to use mineral spirits as a degreaser for something like this.

So if I'm understanding correctly, your engine turns over by hand (or by the bolt on the crank, stator side) or when you have it in gear and roll it the engine turns over? Just feels like the kickstart mechanism is binding up?

Yessir, exactly.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on Jan 24, 2019, 20:27:09
Diesel fuel is a good choice for cleaning engine inside. and cheap by comparison to a gallon of something else.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: irk miller on Jan 24, 2019, 21:29:54
Or kerosene.  Kerosene is good for everything, even as a vitamin supplement.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jan 25, 2019, 16:01:14
Is this correct? Just pulled engine apart and everything seems to be in order. Obviously the washer that goes in front of the snap ring isnt there. Just not on for the moment.

I tried to upload a video but apparently the file is to large. But when I push down on the kickstart pedal, the mechanism closes together. Then when I let it back up, it opens. Is this correct?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Jan 25, 2019, 18:20:04
As long as the ratchet teeth engage and disengage it must be right. I went back to the top and could see the 'wedge' piece was up so not disengaging, in lower pic it's down and moving gear. Sorry for confusing you, I couldn't find a spare to look at, except for a NOS shaft all the complete ones are in motors
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jan 28, 2019, 10:42:45
In terms of the charging system on these bikes, what is the output range of the alternator. Does it charge the battery above 14.8 volts or 15 volts?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: irk miller on Jan 28, 2019, 11:33:42
In terms of the charging system on these bikes, what is the output range of the alternator. Does it charge the battery above 14.8 volts or 15 volts?
That's determined by your regulator.  They produce well over 30v above 3k rpms.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jan 28, 2019, 13:02:33
That's determined by your regulator.  They produce well over 30v above 3k rpms.

I am asking because I've been looking at batteries. Most I see say "verify your charging voltage doesn't exceed 14.8v, otherwise damage to the battery may happen"

Does this mean voltage at idle then?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Jan 28, 2019, 13:15:00
This means maximum voltage (at any RPM). Usually the regulator on a 360 will kick in at about 2500 RPM.

The testing method is to get the bike to idle and measure voltage across the battery terminals with a multimeter. After the engine has warmed up, slowly rev it up to about 5,000 RPM while continuing to monitor the voltage. The voltage should rise with engine speed until it reaches a maximum of about 15V with the stock regulator. If it goes past 15.5, shut things down. You have a bad regulator. For LI-ION, I prefer to see voltages at 14.5V as that gives you a little leeway. Regardless of where your final number lands, I still wouldn't use a stock regulator with a LI-ION battery.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jan 28, 2019, 13:41:47
So with reg/rec I got from you I would be ok? Or no
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Jan 28, 2019, 14:43:00
Yup. We specifically designed it with LI-ION in mind.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jan 28, 2019, 15:01:16
Dope, thanks dude
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 04, 2019, 20:43:04
I have literally tried every single thing imaginable to get the electric starter working. And nothing has worked.

Note: The starter works with a battery connected directly
Brand new battery.
Brand new solenoid.
New starter to solenoid wire.
Jumping it with a car.

I have completely run out of all ideas.
Anyone have any other ideas?

If all lights work, the solenoid clicks when I press the button, shouldn't it work?
Is it possible something isn't grounded? The only thing with that, is that if there was a bad ground wouldn't nothing work at all?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: pidjones on Feb 04, 2019, 21:22:29
Ground.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 04, 2019, 22:51:58
When you say the starter works with the battery connected directly, is that with the starter installed on the bike or removed?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 05, 2019, 07:59:20
When you say the starter works with the battery connected directly, is that with the starter installed on the bike or removed?

Installed
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 05, 2019, 11:27:31
OK.

I had this same problem with my CX500 a few years ago.

Get a couple of jumper wires and connect one to one of the thin wires on the solenoid and then connect the other jumper wire to the other thin wire on the solenoid.

Then, touch the jumper wires to the battery positive and negative terminals. This will bypass the wiring and starter button. If everything works, then the problem is likely to be with the starter button.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 05, 2019, 13:25:00
Someone brought it up on Honda Twins and looking at the wiring diagram for a stock 360 made me question it.

From the solenoid, there are two wires. One yellow/red, one green/red.
I have the red connected to the appropriate wire (cause the labels you provided said so).
But the green is grounded to frame. Is this correct?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 05, 2019, 13:26:25
Probably, but it depends on the controls.

Lets ignore that for now, though. Bypassing the wiring and the controls is what we want to do by using the jumper method I described a couple of posts ago.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 05, 2019, 13:30:55
Will do tonight and report back tomorrow
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 05, 2019, 22:20:44
Starter still no turn
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: pidjones on Feb 05, 2019, 22:23:15
Check the starter ground not insulated by paint.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 05, 2019, 22:50:32
Starter ground as in the large wire to the solenoid, or the starter ground as in the whole unit being grounded to engine?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: pidjones on Feb 05, 2019, 23:37:24
Whole unit to the engine.
Starter ground as in the large wire to the solenoid, or the starter ground as in the whole unit being grounded to engine?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 06, 2019, 11:23:45
Check the starter ground not insulated by paint.

He'd mentioned earlier that the starter would work if he connected it straight to the battery and bypassed the solenoid.

The most recent test had the jumper wires bypassing the wiring and controls, so the only thing left to do is replace the solenoid.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: pidjones on Feb 06, 2019, 12:11:59
I just mentioned it on the chance he ran both leads straight to the starter. But yeah, solenoids can and do getcha. The one on my GL1000 was intermitent.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 06, 2019, 12:45:48
Solenoid is brand new. I had a brand new one, so I bought another just for giggles to see. So with two brand new solenoids I still don't get anything.
Unless BOTH solenoid to starter cables I have are bad....

Because it has power going to the solenoid, it clicks (1 single time) when start button is pressed.
The starter works off of a battery.

Which means power isn't getting to the solenoid, but according to it clicking that isn't true.
So power isn't getting to the starter... and the only thing left to rule out is the cable?

Right??..
In theory, as long as it is connected to the frame I can ground anywhere I want to correct? Is there a place that is best.

I haven't checked the fuse. But I am assuming if the fuse was blown, then no power would get anywhere correct?


I mentioned this before, and I don't believe it is affecting anything. But the neutral ground wire is no longer connected because I don't have a neutral light anymore. I know it ran through the wire coming from the alternator there to the connector going in the battery box. Would this mess anything up?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 06, 2019, 13:12:23
Let's just cover everything again to make sure nothing is getting missed.

The solenoid has four connections. Two studs, each with thick wires attached. One stud goes to the battery positive terminal and the other stud goes to the starter motor. Doesn't matter which goes to which.

The other two connections are small wires that are used to activate the solenoid. Depending on how your controls are set up, there will be one of two situations:
1.) One wire on the solenoid goes to power (black wire in the harness) and the other wire goes to the yellow/red wire that leads to the starter button.
2.) One wire on the solenoid gets grounded (green wire in the harness or bare metal on the frame) and the other wire goes to the yellow/red wire that leads to the starter button.

If the solenoid clicks when you press the starter button, you know you have it wired correctly.

If the starter is not working when the solenoid clicks, you have one of the following scenarios:
1.) Starter is non-functional (I believe we've ruled this out because you can use the starter to turn the engine over if you connect it directly to the battery, but it still might be worth bridging the solenoid studs with a wrench just so we can rule out bad cables, too).
2.) Solenoid is non-functional. Two bad solenoids is unlikely, but possible.
3.) Bad starter button. I had this problem on my CX500. The solenoid would click, but the starter button was on the way out, so I wasn't getting enough current to get a solid switchover from the solenoid. I'd get the click, but a poor connection. We've ruled this one out by jumping the thinner solenoid wires that I had mentioned a few posts ago.
4.) Bad battery. I think we ruled this one out already as well? Jumper cables from a car battery is the way to check this.

So assuming that we've checked everything in step number one, I can't think of anything else it might be besides a bad solenoid.

Are all my assumptions and statements correct so far?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 06, 2019, 13:24:04
Yep you are correct.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 06, 2019, 13:26:37
OK... and just to be 110% sure: The starter will turn if you bridge the solenoid studs with a wrench?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 06, 2019, 13:29:00
No, the starter will not turn if you bridge the solenoids. That's why I didn't think it was a solenoid issue. Which is why I keep going back to a bad ground. That's my only thought
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 06, 2019, 13:30:56
OK. That clears a few things up.

Starter will turn (while installed in the engine) if you connect it directly to battery positive using the cable that's currently attached to the solenoid?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 06, 2019, 13:34:09
With the starter on the engine. I took red jumper cable to the starter post, and black jumper cable to engine. And from there the starter turned.

Another thought.. Is after I painted the frame, and rebuilt the engine I never removed any paint from any of the engine mounts.. So could this be the problem? The engine isn't grounded to the frame?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 06, 2019, 13:55:59
It's a consideration, yes. Try your jumper cable technique again, but do only the positive side from your battery to to the starter motor.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 06, 2019, 14:08:41
Word, will do as soon as I get home.

Just cause I havenít said it in a while, thank you for sticking with me through this. I appreciate more than I can possibly convey.
That goes to everyone who has provided input, yíall are some cool dudes.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 06, 2019, 14:22:37
My brother was at my house so I called him and had him do that for me cause I was anxious.
The starter turned when he connected the battery to the starter with only the red cable to the starter post and the positive battery terminal...
so does this mean the engine is in fact grounded to the frame properly?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 06, 2019, 14:33:08
Sounds like it to me, yes.

And we've already bridged the studs on the solenoid and didn't get the starter to work.

So sounds like a problem with one of the cables, I think. Either the one from the battery positive terminal to the solenoid or the one from the solenoid to to the starter motor.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 06, 2019, 14:38:08
Word.
Will 10 gauge suffice? Or do I need bigger.
Also, where do you get those gigantic ring terminals that you used on the cables? We have everything imaginable here where I work except ring terminals that big
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 06, 2019, 14:41:50
Did I supply the cables on this one? I test them before they leave the shop, but it might be worth another test before we go throwing more parts at this.

Disconnect the cables from the bike and use a multimeter to measure resistance from one end of the cable to the other. We should be a reading of very close to zero Ohms.

We might want to look at the wiring setup as well. I'll post a diagram in a little bit which may shed some light on the issue.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 06, 2019, 14:50:56
OK... so he's how the thick cables for the solenoid, starter motor, and battery should be routed. The studs on the solenoid each get one cable and it doesn't matter which side goes to which, so long as each side gets one.

Does that match up with what you're seeing?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 06, 2019, 14:52:48
You said "from the positive battery to the solenoid". Should I have a wire going directly to the solenoid from the battery?

The way it was labeled, or so I thought, is you had a wire labeled batt +, with the fuse in line with it, so I have that connected to the battery. And there was another wire, with no label, but its red with a ring terminal, so I assumed that is what went to the solenoid. Does that sound correct?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 06, 2019, 14:54:31
There should be a thick cable (about 8 gauge, diameter of a pencil) going from the battery positive terminal to one stud on the solenoid. On the other stud of the solenoid there should another cable of the same thickness going to the starter motor.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 06, 2019, 14:59:19
Nope don't have that.
Ill take a photo tonight. Are there supposed to be two different wires  ( 1 being a large wire from positive battery to solenoid , 1 being wherever the wire with the fuse goes) connected to the positive battery terminal?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 06, 2019, 15:08:44
Solenoid on the left, red wire with ring terminal goes into wire loom.

Red wire with fuse, positive battery terminal then to a bullet connector on the other end of the fuse then goes into wiring loom.

From what you're saying, this is not correct?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 06, 2019, 15:11:14
Yup. Those are separate circuits. The fused wire connects the battery to the ignition switch and controls power to almost everything on the bike. The starter motor runs on its own (unfused) circuit which is the one I drew out in the picture a couple of posts ago.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 06, 2019, 15:13:18
So that means I need to disconnect the current red wire that is on the solenoid. So where does it connect?
Is 10 gauge wire ok to use for the battery to solenoid or do I need thicker?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 06, 2019, 15:16:57
It's correct, you're just missing the extra cable from the battery positive terminal to the solenoid. There should be an 8 gauge wire that's used. Picture attached.

I don't recall, but did you order the solenoid wire from us along with your harness?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 06, 2019, 15:26:23
I don't remember If I did or not, but no matter. Ill make a wire real quick and test it out tonight. I bet that has been the freaking issue all along lol
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: pidjones on Feb 06, 2019, 15:35:46
I swear, the fuse looks like it goes across the battery.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 06, 2019, 15:43:03
Make sure it's a thick wire. 10 gauge minimum and 8 gauge would be better. That circuit is unfused, so if the motor pulls more current than the wiring can handle, you're going to be looking at burned wiring.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 06, 2019, 15:44:27
I swear, the fuse looks like it goes across the battery.

Now that you mention it, it does look that way. I can only assume that's not the case because that battery would pop the fuse in no time.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 06, 2019, 15:51:02
Haha it isn't across the battery, I may be dumb but not that dumb. Here is a better picture.

Don't mind my brothers hobbit feet
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: SONIC. on Feb 06, 2019, 18:01:55
Like this:

Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 06, 2019, 18:34:20
Thank you sir.

Hey Sonreir, do you happen to have a diagram you use for these harnesses or one very similar to mine? If not that's cool. But would be good for future use.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 06, 2019, 18:41:59
I do not, but I really should make one. Gimme a week or two to get it together?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 06, 2019, 20:04:23
Alright, so before i do anything and possibly fry something.

This red wire in my hand, connects to the solenoid.
And the wire from battery + connects to the solenoid too? (The new black wire I have currently on the battery)

Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 06, 2019, 20:09:43
This wire goes to the reg/rec
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 07, 2019, 08:02:39
I undid that red ring terminal wire from the solenoid, put the one from battery + to the solenoid. And it all works! So God is great, I am glad it was such an easy fix. Makes a man look back and wish he hadn't gotten so frustrated over it.

Anyway, I didn't put the red wire with the ring terminal on battery + or the solenoid because I was scared it would just send 12v to the rectifier and fry it. Sound right?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 07, 2019, 11:58:32
Anyway, I didn't put the red wire with the ring terminal on battery + or the solenoid because I was scared it would just send 12v to the rectifier and fry it. Sound right?

Not quite. That red wire from the R/R is your charging output. It needs to get connected to the battery + terminal or to the hot side of the solenoid (which is also connected to battery + terminal). You will fry your R/R without that wire connected.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 07, 2019, 13:02:47
Connected wire to hot side of the solenoid and magic smoke came off the red wire going to reg/rec.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: MiniatureNinja on Feb 07, 2019, 13:07:25
Connected wire to hot side of the solenoid and magic smoke came off the red wire going to reg/rec.

indicates a short. or possibly if you ran the bike without the red+ wire attached it fried the reg-rec and that's the cause of smoke
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 07, 2019, 13:10:28
Well the red wire going to the reg/rec is toasted, so I am assuming the reg/rec is as well. This mean a short?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 07, 2019, 13:50:11
The red wire in the harness or the red wire actually coming out of the R/R?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 07, 2019, 14:24:52
Iím not home. But the red wire with the ring terminal, donít remember where it goes bow that you ask, was fried. And lots of smoke, tons of smoke cane pouring out of that area where only the red wire and the reg rec are located. Obviously smoke came from wire burning but I just wanted to make sure it didnít ruin the reg/rec. is there a way I can test it ? (Iíll nake sure of all this when I get off work)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 07, 2019, 14:50:29
If you have a diode function on your multimeter you can test is by measuring between the pink wire and the red wire and then the yellow wire and the red wire. That should verify that the rectifier portion is working. The regulator portion cannot be easily tested at home unless you have an adjustable power supply.

If you inspect the wires on the unit and not just the harness, this should also give an indication of whether or not there may be damage.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 07, 2019, 15:00:31
Say a man had an adjustable power supply at work. What is required to test it then?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 07, 2019, 20:50:07
Grab a multimeter and set it to 200Ω. Measure resistance between all five wires and you should get an Open Line reading for all of those.

Next, hook up the R/R to the adjustable power supply and set the APS to 13V. Repeat the measurements and you should still get Open Line.

After that, measure the resistance between the yellow and pink wires while you slowly increase the voltage on the APS. You should reach a point in the low 14V range where the resistance drops close to zero.

Finally, repeat the resistance measurements between the other wires and verify they are all still Open Line.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 07, 2019, 21:48:46
This is the reg rec wiring. Happened when the red wire was connected to 12v
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 07, 2019, 22:29:08
Can you compare the wires to the harness and check and ensure the colors match up? That usually occurs when the ground and power wires are swapped.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 07, 2019, 23:08:16
Dang dawg you nailed it.

Will a molex extractor tool work for this type of connector so I can swap the wires? Or do you have a suggestion as to what works best.

Ill order a new reg/rec from you promptly tomorrow morning!

Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 07, 2019, 23:27:45
Provided you didn't swap the wires, that was probably my fault. Email me your address at info@sparckmoto.com and I'll get a new one into the mail.

Any damage to any of the insulation on the harness? I'm guessing not because I use thicker wires than the R/R, but you'll definitely want to look it over.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 07, 2019, 23:42:37
Nope no issues to the harness. Just the reg/rec.

How bout you let me pay you half for the reg/rec for all the help youíve given me for free thus far? Sound fair?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 07, 2019, 23:51:07
If that's what you'd prefer, but I figure you already paid for that help when you get the harness.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 07, 2019, 23:55:06
Itís what I prefer. I did pay for the extra help I agree, but youíve gone above and beyond any help I thought. (Offered to draw a wiring diagram, which takes time). I think me paying for half of something is hardly worth your time.

Want me to send my info and you can send me an invoice or just make PayPal payment to you in the morning? Whatever is easiest for you
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 08, 2019, 11:18:14
Please email me your info and I'll take care of the rest.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 12, 2019, 18:17:34
Ignition Timing:

Are the left points supposed to be open when the crank comes to the LF mark? And once open, they should be checked to be within 0.014 correct?
Then, rotate 180 degrees, and do the same with the right points.

What if the points are not opening directly on the LF mark?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 12, 2019, 18:18:41
They should just open as the crank rotates (counter-clockwise) past the LF mark. At their widest, they should be about .014", but I think anything up to .017" is still in spec?

If the points don't open exactly at the LF mark, then your ignition timing will be off.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 12, 2019, 18:21:45
Is it possible to be opening at the wrong times altogether? Is that considered 180 degrees out?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 12, 2019, 18:32:40
Yes, that's possible. It usually only occurs if you've taken the advancer apart and reassembled it 180į out.

If your left opening on right and vice versa?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 13, 2019, 21:12:32
No they just arenít opening at all actually. Do I need to move them closer to the cam end
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 13, 2019, 22:15:13
The advancer is the part with the cam that actuates the points. Is it fully seated against the cam? Maybe post a pic?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 14, 2019, 08:05:18
Here is it in its current state. (The points are open because I was seeing how to move them around last night, I am not saying they are correct.)
When I rotate the engine over counter clockwise, the points do not move.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on Feb 14, 2019, 08:59:24
First off that advancer lobe looks to be trash.  Its gonna shred the "lifters" on the points. 

At least try to clean it up.  (Knock the rust off)

Second it appears your left is open and on the low point of the lobe. 

So loosen it off enough to close up contacts on the low point and open on the high side.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 14, 2019, 10:53:25
+1 on both those things.

If you loosen the screws holding the points, they will close automatically because of the tension on the springs. This is also how you adjust the gap. You put a feeler gauge in between the points and loosen and then retighten them with the feeler in place.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 15, 2019, 19:27:03
Took spark advanced off, cleaned cam. Put back on. Left points are opening when approaching F. So 180 our? But the right are not opening
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 15, 2019, 19:32:09
Rotated spark advancer, left points open as approaching lf as we want. But the right still arenít opening. I unscrewed then to let the spring reset, still not right
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 15, 2019, 22:09:14
Is the points follower contacting the cam? If you open the points with your hand, can you feel tension from the spring?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: irk miller on Feb 16, 2019, 08:00:49
That advancer needs to go into the trash. They sell them on Ebay for as little as $15.  I'm wondering if the cam sleeve is missing altogether.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 16, 2019, 10:07:25
https://www.ebay.com/p/74-Honda-Cb360-CB-360-OEM-Advance-Spark-Advancer-Mechanism-Timing-Rotor/1911838263?iid=263237104855&chn=ps&ul_ref=https%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F1%252F711-117182-37290-0%252F2%253Fmpre%253Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.com%25252Fp%25252F74-Honda-Cb360-CB-360-OEM-Advance-Spark-Advancer-Mechanism-Timing-Rotor%25252F1911838263%25253Fiid%25253D263237104855%252526chn%25253Dps%2526itemid%253D263237104855%2526targetid%253D593772237013%2526device%253Dm%2526adtype%253Dpla%2526googleloc%253D9060073%2526poi%253D%2526campaignid%253D1689945013%2526adgroupid%253D69559042287%2526rlsatarget%253Dpla-593772237013%2526abcId%253D1140466%2526merchantid%253D113782593%2526gclid%253DEAIaIQobChMIu7Laj7bA4AIVCODICh3mjgBhEAQYCyABEgJUwPD_BwE%2526srcrot%253D711-117182-37290-0%2526rvr_id%253D1860525836575%2526rvr_ts%253Df6a0d5281680ac1d1ba0c2f4fff1ec2a


This one look decent?

What is the cam sleeve ?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on Feb 16, 2019, 10:36:00
Yes buy that.  Make sure to keep the cams locator pin from your original as its missing from the one in the ebay ad.

Also once it arrives disassemble it, take care not to overstretch or bend springs, clean it and fresh grease.

And dont loose any of the spring washers (I think I already had 2 or 4 installed in that pic.). there's several of them.

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/11494-130714073507-4591987.jpeg)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 16, 2019, 17:15:45
Do you have a picture of the locator pin? Iím not sure what that part is
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on Feb 16, 2019, 19:35:56
The pin fits in the back of the advancer plate and into the cam shaft. 

Ties (locks) them together so they wont spin independently. 

If its not in the back of your advancer its probably stuck in the cam shaft.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: irk miller on Feb 16, 2019, 21:00:00
99% of the time they stay in the cam.  As in, you would have to actually take it out of the cam on purpose.  No one ever sells an advancer with the pin, since the pin is considered a part of the cam, not the advancer.

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160531/0f7641ffef4562d18d8dde006255fa03.jpg)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on Feb 16, 2019, 21:35:15
99% of the time they stay in the cam.  As in, you would have to actually take it out of the cam on purpose.  No one ever sells an advancer with the pin, since the pin is considered a part of the cam, not the advancer.


Forgive me, its been a while.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 19, 2019, 11:32:08
Forgive me, but from the the starting point of refreshing the advancer I would like to walk through this step by step.

Just got my advancer in this morning, so after I rebuild it, what should I do next?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: irk miller on Feb 19, 2019, 11:36:08
You don't really need to rebuild it, per se.  Clean it up, replace the springs (if necessary), lube the pivots and lube under the cam.  That's really it.  If there are any burrs or rough patches on the cam surface, then polish it up with very fine sandpaper and Autosol or Simichrome.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 19, 2019, 11:38:29
After the rebuild, make sure it rotates smoothly so that when the advancer weights move outward, the cam on the advance moves a little. It should have tension from the springs but shouldn't bind at all and it shouldn't take too much effort to move.

Then it just goes onto the end of the camshaft, with the locater pin holding the advancer in place.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 20, 2019, 08:03:40
Advancer rebuilt, actually turned out better than I thought. Pretty pleased with it, as there is a noticeable difference in functionality now.
I put it back on the cam, the left points are still opening as they should, though they may be staying open to long, i am not entirely sure, and the right points are not opening. I will take take the tension off the point springs when I get off work, but that is what I finished up this morning.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: irk miller on Feb 20, 2019, 08:09:12
Advancer rebuilt, actually turned out better than I thought. Pretty pleased with it, as there is a noticeable difference in functionality now.
I put it back on the cam, the left points are still opening as they should, though they may be staying open to long, i am not entirely sure, and the right points are not opening. I will take take the tension off the point springs when I get off work, but that is what I finished up this morning.
Your right points are on their own plate separate from the left.  Once you get the gap set, you should see them act right.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Feb 20, 2019, 20:53:34
Can you compare the wires to the harness and check and ensure the colors match up? That usually occurs when the ground and power wires are swapped.
Yep, if you put it in the wrong hole by accident things can get real nasty
They should just open as the crank rotates (counter-clockwise) past the LF mark. At their widest, they should be about .014", but I think anything up to .017" is still in spec?

If the points don't open exactly at the LF mark, then your ignition timing will be off.
0.012"~0.016" for max points gap. The dwell changes with points gap so try and stay around 0.014" Adjusting gap also adjusts timing so set gap, rotate backplate, check gap, rotate backplate again then do the other set (and maybe start over if you did the 'wrong set first  ;D )
Yes buy that.  Make sure to keep the cams locator pin from your original as its missing from the one in the ebay ad.

Also once it arrives disassemble it, take care not to overstretch or bend springs, clean it and fresh grease.

And dont loose any of the spring washers (I think I already had 2 or 4 installed in that pic.). there's several of them.

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/11494-130714073507-4591987.jpeg)
The price at $79.00 is probably the last official Honda price list for 360. I have a few NOS for 'CB93' which last listed at $63.00
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 20, 2019, 21:04:02
. Just doesnít seem correct, and I know Iím certainly missing something and it shouldnít be this hard for me to understand. As the left points open, itís approaching the Lf mark. So that makes me wonder if itís 180į out. But I never took this advanced fully apart, just lubed up really well.
Secondly, the right points arenít opening.

And for my understanding:
Setting the gap, means the distance between the part of the point that opens, correct?
If Iím setting them, as I rotate to the LF mark the left should open. I put feeler gauge in between point and check the gap. Use the top adjuster screw only to adjust.

Then for the right, I rotate to the F mark, where the right point should open, and doing same as with left points I adjust the gap.

Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 20, 2019, 21:14:05
Your first sentence sounds correct. Left point should open as the rotor passes the LF mark.

For setting the gap, you insert the feeler gauge when the point is open at its widest. This can take a little effort if the point is not opening at all. You might need to gap it an arbitrary amount just to get it to open at all. Then you can set the gap correctly.

The idea is that you set the gap on the left point, then you adjust the points plate so that the point just opens (you check this with a timing light or multimeter) as you reach the LF mark. Then, you set the timing on the right side by setting the gap. If the necessary gap on the right point is out of spec in order to achieve the correct timing (right point just opening as rotor F mark passes the timing mark on the stator), then it's time for new points.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 20, 2019, 21:18:29
It's also important to note that the points only open on every other rotation of the crankshaft. So if the right points aren't opening, turn the crank another 360į.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Feb 20, 2019, 21:30:28
You check p[points gap about 100 degrees past 'T' mark so it's in about middle of 'crown' of points cam
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 21, 2019, 18:02:21
If the right point is not opening, does that mean the bottom screw needs to be loosened, then move the point closer to the came lobe?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 21, 2019, 18:09:14
If the right point is not opening, does that mean the bottom screw needs to be loosened, then move the point closer to the came lobe?

Possibly. You'll need to eyeball the points follower were it contacts the cam and make sure it is resting on it.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 21, 2019, 18:11:28
This sounds like a very, very stupid question.. But
The point lobe, needs to be in contact with the cam lobe when it is supposed to be in the open position correct?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Feb 21, 2019, 18:12:17
It should be in contact all of the time, but it will be especially apparent when the cam lob is holding the point open, yes.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on Feb 22, 2019, 23:46:43
When you place the mark at the points follower the point "should" be open to its max.  Set your .014 there.

But turn it over a few times to double check the mark could be off a bit.  Its possible anything can happen.

You cant have it opening more than .016

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/11494-220219213545.png)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 23, 2019, 21:32:23
For some reason i canít get the points to open at the correct time. Or even open at all.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Feb 24, 2019, 17:37:44
See the 'dot' in picture Trek posted and the little 'cutaway' at about 9:00 o'clock position? That shows correct points cam assembly.  How long is the 'heel' of points? It should be at least 1.5mm but probably over 2mm. It's rare but I have seen them missing from factory (aftermarket, broken off). The heel doesn't touch points cam all the way around, probably be a 0.010"~0.020" at the low point of cam. Check engine cam extension isn't bent (they usually crack if cam has been dropped but could bend slightly)  Take a good look at points cam and set high point under points heel, don't even bother with crank position until you can get both points gapped around 0.014"
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 26, 2019, 11:02:03
It seems the cam extension is not bent, heel of the points are within what pj said was spec. And the advancer seems to be correctly assembled as the mark is approximately in the 9-10 o'clock region when placed onto the cam shaft end. Would pictures of anything help out so you guys can see everything I am dealing with?


 But, is the only way to verify cam timing is correct is to take the valves off?
Or, is TDC on the left side relative to the LF mark? I can correctly adjust the valve gap. And the tensioner is adjusted properly. So I don't believe the cam timing is off. But its a fair thought that it could be the cause of the issues.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: irk miller on Feb 26, 2019, 11:19:22
Start posting up pictures. This whole deal would be way easier with pics.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 26, 2019, 11:20:31
Will do. Any particular pictures which would be most helpful? Sorry, just want to make sure I make it easiest on those being so kind to help me.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: irk miller on Feb 26, 2019, 11:23:46
At the point things are going wrong. My understanding is your points still don't close, correct?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 26, 2019, 11:25:38
The left points open and close (and they do not open and close at appropriate time), have not gapped them yet. The right points do not do anything.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: irk miller on Feb 26, 2019, 11:35:29
As far as where, the LF mark is your firing mark.  The LT mark is your valve mark. So, you should set your points at the LF mark.  Gap must be set in order to get it right.  First set the gap at the tallest part of the lobe, then move the entire points plate to get the left side to fire on the LF mark.  Once you get the left side set, then you loosen the screws for just the right points, and adjust them to fire on the RF mark. 
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Feb 26, 2019, 11:41:18
Ah... Thank you, I was under the impression (though someone said it previously in this thread and I didn't understand then) that the plate needed to remain in the same spot. But once the gap is set, then I can rotate the point plate accordingly.

With the right point not moving. Do I need to move the point lobe as close as possible to the advancer cam? So it actually moves?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: irk miller on Feb 26, 2019, 11:52:01
Ah... Thank you, I was under the impression (though someone said it previously in this thread and I didn't understand then) that the plate needed to remain in the same spot. But once the gap is set, then I can rotate the point plate accordingly.


This is correct.  Everything starts with your left side.  Once the gap is set for the left, then you move the plate.  The right side may or may not share the same gap once set, so don't worry about gap on the right.  Once you move the plate to set the left side, you will tighten the screws and not move it again.  Then, you loosen the screws just for the right points, set them on the mark and you're done.  Yes, the lobe moves towards the cam to open the points. 
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: pidjones on Feb 26, 2019, 15:09:38
You say that they won't open at all. Every bike/car/tractor that I've seen, you could adjust the points so they either wouldn't open or wouldn't close the whole revolution of the cam - there was that much adjustment range. There are usually two screws holding the point base: one is a pivot near the bend in the point spring, and the other is the adjustment clamp near the point contacts. Both need to be loosened to adjust the gap. A flat-blade screwdriver allows you to lever one vs theb other to set the gap. I suggest that you loosen the screws and practice varying the gap as you watch and verify what you are doing. It should be easy to see the gap open and close. As you move the contact fixed to the base toward the cam, the cam follower hits the cam and keeps the other contact from moving any more. Moving the base further towards the cam opens the contact.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Mar 01, 2019, 11:59:40
Adjusted gap on left point. Turned plate to where left is opening as lf approaches lf on compression stroke.

Havenít adjusted the right point gap yet.
The left point is also opening directly at the F Mark (180 degrees on the crank). Is this because I have not set the right point gap yet
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Mar 03, 2019, 17:27:18
The left and right points are independent, setting one will affect the other only because of the clearances between parts. If everything was pefrectly sized it would be easy to rotate things without losing clearances, but, parts are built for easy assembly so will move up, down, sideways instead of just rotating. You set points gap at highhest point of cam, rotate plate to get timing right, re-check gap and probably start over. When one side is done, you do the other side without moving the main backplate. Sometimes you must 'split the difference' to get both sides 'close'Your missing a fundamental idea somewhere
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Mar 08, 2019, 17:17:20
Got it timed, or at least I believe so. Put gas tank on, fuel lines,
Tried to start it up, but itís only backfiring. Out of time? Not getting enough fuel? Also, flor bowl drain for right carb is leaking when fuel is on. Float level off?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 08, 2019, 17:18:48
Big loud backfires one every 4th or 5th kick?

If so, swap the yellow and blue wires between the two ignition coils and try again.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: advCo on Mar 08, 2019, 17:26:06
Got it timed, or at least I believe so. Put gas tank on, fuel lines,
Tried to start it up, but itís only backfiring. Out of time? Not getting enough fuel? Also, flor bowl drain for right carb is leaking when fuel is on. Float level off?

Sounds like what my 360 did when I had the advancer installed 180* out.

Sometimes the floats stick. Try tapping the bowl with the handle of a screwdriver while the fuel is on and see if it stops leaking.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Mar 08, 2019, 17:30:00
No Iím using electric start. After about 3 or 4 seconds

I donít think itís 180į out because the tick mark on the advancer is correctly aligned I think.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Mar 08, 2019, 17:49:02
My ignition coils have a blue, and white/black wire. Which of these would I swap? Also, spark plugs have spark when ground to engine so I know its getting spark
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 08, 2019, 17:58:04
If both ignition coils have blue wires, swap the points wires from left to right between the two coils.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Mar 08, 2019, 19:44:53
Even bigger backfire.
Knocking on float bowl fixed it though, thatís dope
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Mar 11, 2019, 13:25:44
I am getting fuel, I am getting air, and according to grounding the plugs to the frame I am getting spark.. BUT, I may not be getting it at exactly the right time. So I am revisiting ignition timing.

I will take a photo and post, but yesterday I went to retime the bike. I set the left point gap at the highest point of the advancer lobe (also on compression stroke). Adjusted to where left point is opening as the crank approaches the LF mark. Now, I rotate the crank over 360 degrees, to the point where the right point should be opening, but it is not. I originally thought maybe the point was not close enough to the advancer, and needed adjusting. But.  Upon inspecting where the tick mark (highest point on the advancer lobe), it is not under the point, therefor not causing it to open at the correct time.

If my understanding is correct, the high point of the lobe should have rotated to beneath the point lobe making it rise. If it didn't go to correct position:
A) the advancer is 180 degrees out? The tick mark is correctly aligned with the small cut out at the base of the advancer so I didn't think it was out.
B) The crank would turn 360 degrees from the left compression to the right compression, correct?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 11, 2019, 13:49:04
You might want to put a strobe light on it to get a better idea of where your spark is.

Also, the Honda 360 is a 180į crank, not a 360į crank, so if you rotate the crankshaft a full rotation, you'll be way off. The left should fire and then the right should fire 180į later. Then you get 540į of crankshaft rotation before the left side fires again. Right side compression stroke is left side power stroke. Does that make sense?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Mar 11, 2019, 14:01:19
Yes that does, thank you.

So, set timing left, then rotate 180 degrees to time the right point.

Can I use a strobe light even if the bike hasnt run yet? Only turns over and backfires haha
From before, where you told me to change where the points wires went, should I move those back?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Mar 11, 2019, 14:14:18
You can use a strobe light so long as you have spark (even if the timing is wrong). It should help visualize where the spark is actually firing and might shed some light on what else needs to be done.

Swap the wires back if you were getting less backfiring before.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Mar 11, 2019, 21:02:09
Had some puffs come back through the carb. In my car engine experience that means the timing is off.

This is weird to me and doesnít seem right, but this is the points at LF and F, respectively both points seem to be open in both conditions. But they are aligned properly wth the tick mark now. Thatís a step in right direction
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Mar 11, 2019, 22:31:45
The cam rotates twice so you'll have both closed next time crank turns one revolution
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Mar 11, 2019, 22:46:11
So it makes sense for it to look that way?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Mar 14, 2019, 08:10:45
First start happened yesterday, one of the most exciting things to happen to me. Ever. Now I see why you guys work on bikes so much, the feeling of big wins like that when working for a long time on something is addicting.

Anyway,
Had it going for about a minute or two straight, was going to let it warm up and start tuning the carbs. Then it just shut off. Going to see what possibly happened tomorrow, but this morning I went in the garage because I woke up thinking about how i forgot to tighten the bolt holding the advancer to the cam, so maybe the advancer slipped forward a little off the pin and wasn't functioning properly (that is my hope anyway cause then I can get back to tuning).

Just wanted to let you guys know that it is getting ever closer and I am very thankful for anyone and everyone who has chimed in with little tid bits of knowledge to help progress me down this rabbit hole!
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: advCo on Mar 14, 2019, 10:20:44
Now that you have it running, get it timed with a light and then sync the carbs. It'll make a world of difference.

If the bike was running for a few minutes no problem and just died, you may want to check the voltage on your battery and then next time you have it running put the multimeter on there and make sure you're charging right.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Mar 14, 2019, 11:44:44
Once I verify what the issue was that made it die I will check the voltage. After that I went to try and start it again using a battery charger because after pushing the starter for so long it dies, and it was only turning the starter so thats why I think the advancer came off the pin.
However when it did start, i just bumped the push start an it fired right up.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: pidjones on Mar 15, 2019, 00:41:25
Congrats! One of the sweetest sounds is when all the hard work pays off and you hear that first bust of pleasure.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Mar 15, 2019, 18:15:21
I was right, the advancer came off the pin and threw the timing off. Got it all timed and starts up on first bump every single time now! God is great.
Now for carb tuning. I printed the manual pages on how to tune the carbs, but turning the throttle stop screw counter clockwise will not slow the engine RPM down. It is idling at about 4k rpm at the moment. I also tried adjusting the pilot screw but still no difference.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Mar 15, 2019, 18:38:21
New info:

I pulled the air filters off just to look at the carb slides, the right is all the way open and the left is much more closed. Assuming the means sync the carbs? Do I adjust the throttle speed then get them synced? (the throttle speed wont adjust)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on Mar 15, 2019, 18:46:34
God is great.


Maybe, just maybe if we all say a prayer for your carbs... ::)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Mar 15, 2019, 18:57:38
I wouldn't deny such a gracious thing, but no such thing is solely up to me lol
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on Mar 15, 2019, 19:07:34
Links to my 360 carb posts...

http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=63133.0

http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=27417.msg885289#msg885289
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Mar 15, 2019, 19:12:13
Word, thank you very much!
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on Mar 15, 2019, 21:42:08
The Honda carb manual doesn't exactly cover the bastards they installed on the 360.  But there's a lot to learn from it.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Mar 16, 2019, 12:49:01
If you 'dip' the carbs it will dry out the felt seals on throttle shafts. As long as you get all the water out and re-oil them it usually isn't a problem. Treks guide is probably the best one anyone can use for 360 carb DIY.  it covers stuff that isn't in any manual. The only caveat, if you want to run 'pods' carbs need further work to fix the 3K~4K missfire
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Mar 16, 2019, 13:43:04
If you 'dip' the carbs it will dry out the felt seals on throttle shafts. As long as you get all the water out and re-oil them it usually isn't a problem. Treks guide is probably the best one anyone can use for 360 carb DIY.  it covers stuff that isn't in any manual. The only caveat, if you want to run 'pods' carbs need further work to fix the 3K~4K missfire

I read Treks guide through and through haha.
You rebuilt them actually, PJ. What other work would it need?

The slide was stuck, so I took the right carb top off and set the slide back down and all functioned properly again.
I started the bike back up, and it is idling still around 3-4krpm.
I tried to adjust the idle but turning the screw doesn't effect anything. Also, adjusting he pilot screws dont seem to do anything either.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on Mar 16, 2019, 14:43:20

You rebuilt them actually, PJ.


Are you saying PJ built your carbs?

Turning the A/F adjusters at 3-4k rpm?  You really won't see any effect. 

Sounds like you may have a vacuum leak or your throttle cable is maladjusted.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Mar 16, 2019, 14:57:23
Yessir he did. He and I have talked some on Honda Twins so I don't expect him to reply here lol

Looking for vaccum leak right this second.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Mar 16, 2019, 15:26:06
Cna't find any vaccum leaks.

Turned the choke on just to see what happens.

Obviously, it slows the idle down a lot. Open it back up, back to high idle. the right carb is sorta blowing some misted fuel out as well
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on Mar 16, 2019, 16:10:39
The right carb is blowing fuel mist out of where?

If PJ has had your carbs in his hands then they need nothing other than a quick once over (after bouncing around the UPS truck) and gauge sync/tuning.

You can double check the float heights and operation.  PJ still sets them at 21mm as far as I know.  Keep them at his 21mm.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Mar 16, 2019, 16:27:47
They mist fuel out of the right carb intake side. I am going to check right side intake valve clearance. Actually, might as well check all valves
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on Mar 16, 2019, 18:05:58
They mist fuel out of the right carb intake side. I am going to check right side intake valve clearance. Actually, might as well check all valves

MmmHmmm. 
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Mar 16, 2019, 22:00:32
How long ago did I do them? (or better, when did I send them back end of last year or 2019?) Were they the ones with slides gummed in?  If so, I washed them out pretty good but don't remember if they went through ultrasonic cleaner? So far, in about 10? years doing 350/360 carbs if there is a 'carb' problem' 99.99% of the time it's either charging, ignition or cam timing/valve adjustment.  ;D
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Mar 17, 2019, 20:36:48
Let it be known, I fully trust PJ'S Carb abilities and fully assumed it was something I had messed up lol.

Went to adjust the valves yesterday, and found what couldv'e been a horrible thing. The exhaust valve adjustment screw and nut was missing on the right side. I was sad. Took the night to think it over, and pulled the top end off today. Thankfully, under the valve cover was the screw and nut sitting pretty. I pulled the head to check and make sure nothing was ruined anyway. Everything was still tip top.  Unfortunately, the screws threads are marred up a little, and I don't have the correct die for it. So I am just going to order another from CMC. I am not sure if this was the cause of high idle or not, but, I am so thankful I found it before I started the bike again.
Thanks for the help so far everybody
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Mar 17, 2019, 21:08:51
It won't be cause of high idle but the noise must have been pretty horrendous noise?  :o It does make valve timing extremely 'short' probably with pressure in cylinder when intake valve opens causing the back pressure you had pushing fuel out.?  At least your in the 99.99% bracket  8) ;D   If you still have it apart, check the bottom threads of rocker arm and top of valve.(use adjuster screw from different cylinder) I haven't seen it happen on a 360 but I have seen the damage on the later CB/CM400'3 valve' motors.where valve tip is small and the threads completely gone causing rocker to 'pull' valve sideways wearing valve guide.You probably caught it before it did any real damage
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: irk miller on Mar 17, 2019, 21:13:21
I had a 360 that had "ovalled" tappet screw holes.  Not sure what caused them to oval, but after the second time losing the same tappet, I took a closer inspection.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Mar 17, 2019, 22:06:50
The bottom of the screw still threaded into the tappet on both ends, so I think it shouldnít be ok. , Iím glad it didnít oval out like iris did.
And I didnít hear it because Iím one of the people that made their exhaust to loud. Itís long enough, but to loud haha. Making me rethink how loud I need it.... then again, Iíve really only heard the engine at 4,000 rpm so it makes sense it would be loud lol. Been wearing hearing protections when it was running, probably why I didnít hear the valve tappet (or maybe I donít have the ear for it)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Mar 26, 2019, 15:11:18
Got the adjuster replaced, and top end back together. re-timed (I am getting quick at it), and went to start up again after I adjusted valves. Ran for maybe a second or two, then died.

No backfires.
-I didn't do anything to the carbs, so I don't assume the bike is getting fuel. I should've pulled a plug just to see if it has any fuel on it.
-The timing is spot on, and it is definitely getting spark.
- I noticed that the left plug is very dark now, from running previously. I am not sure what this means, so is this indicative of say, the bike running rich when it did run?
- When the bike was running, it was idling really high. So some of you told me to check for vacuum leaks. i couldn't find any, but I took the right side intake manifold off to make sure it was seating properly on the carb. It seemed to be, so I put it back on and did my absolute best to make sure it was in the intake as best as possible. Has anyone ever had any trouble with these not seating properly?
- I noticed the carbs sag, just a little bit in the manifolds so I will have to do what Trek did and suspend them with something.

Either way, first plan of action is to check valve clearances again just to ensure I got it 100% correct.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on Mar 26, 2019, 21:06:35
Are the A/F mix adjusters two turns out?

It will idle rich at start up due to choke being closed. 

Once warmed up w choke fully open ( adjusted for fastest idle) it still be a bit rich at idle because its an air cooled engine and a lean idle will cause over heating issues.

The richer mix allows it to run cooler.

When the bike was running with a high idle did you turn out the idle speed adjuster to slow it?

Ensure you haven't over tightened the insulators to the head as this will cause them to warp and leak.

Smear a bit of grease inside the insulators to ease carb installation.

FWIW.  Adjusting valves is the only adjustment you should make w the engine cold.  All other adjustment are made at operating temp.

Once running adjust idle speed, then A/F mix for fastest idle, Then re-adjust idle speed, Then sync, Then check timing w a strobe light. (Idle and advance)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Mar 28, 2019, 13:24:15
The mix adjusters are two turns out.

When it was idling really high, any carb adjustment was negligent. nothing changed no matter what I did, so thats why I believed it to be a vacuum leak.

Last night I was fooling with it, just trying to get it to start. with the battery fully charged, I went to press the push start and the button didn't work. I thought that was weird, I flipped the kill switch on and off a couple times, and then the push start worked. The bike started then died again.
I took the switch assembly off the handlebars to see if I could replicate the problem, and I could. I took it apart to make sure some of the switch contacts weren't touching or burnt. Nothing seemed amiss.
I am going to check every piece of wiring tomorrow to make sure it is all ok before I definitively say the switch assembly is bad, or just try a different one.

Also, when it ran for a few seconds I felt the exhaust pipes to see if both cylinders were running, only the left pipe was warm.I looked inside the right cylinder carb, and the slide is stuck up again. Not sure why it keeps doing that. When I go to fix it, can i use some sort of lubricant to make sure it doesn't get stuck due to friction or would anything inside of it contaminate things?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Mar 28, 2019, 13:59:04
It's very unusual for a slide to stick after it's been free'd off, have you removed top to make sure nothing fell in during shipping?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Mar 28, 2019, 14:29:50
Iíve had to free it once already. Nothing looked like it had fallen. I will post pictures once I take it apart again.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Mar 29, 2019, 19:40:44
Check inside carb bore, could be a burr from prying on it? (can't really think of anything else?) You haven't fitted washers under needles?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on Mar 29, 2019, 20:39:54
check vent hole orentation in the bottom of slides.  They have to be nearest the filter, not engine.

If they are engine side it will cause them to hammer themselves to death and they will wedge

Its very common for the slides to actually twist themselves around even w the Honda diaphragms w locating tabs.

If they have twisted around. 
hold the plastic ring and twist it very gently back to position until the locating tab on diaphragm is lined back up and holes locale is correct.

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/11494-220714063350.jpeg)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on Mar 29, 2019, 20:51:15
I had to file the lip off this one...wedged in body from hammering.

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/11494-070614073956-3891153.jpeg)

Scraped the body pulling it out w needle nose pliers.

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/11494-070614073956-3881523.jpeg)

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/11494-070614073956-387843.jpeg)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Mar 29, 2019, 21:25:39
Looks like base of slide is damaged, don't remember seeing that line?  You can polish the bore slightly with some 400 or 600 grit wetordry. May be worth doing the 'line' with so-me 220 grit. The air jets were in correct positions when I sent carbs back
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on Mar 30, 2019, 07:11:09
Looks like base of slide is damaged, don't remember seeing that line?  You can polish the bore slightly with some 400 or 600 grit wetordry. May be worth doing the 'line' with so-me 220 grit. The air jets were in correct positions when I sent carbs back

Hey PJ those are OLD pics of my carbs as an example of what can happen.

When the slides get turned around backwards.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Mar 31, 2019, 19:17:43
Thank you! Iím going to go look for that right now! The slide got stuck again once I push it back down. I hope what trek said finds the issue
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on Mar 31, 2019, 19:40:26
Do you have "Honda" diaphragms w tab on the edge or aftermarket w no tab?

Also, if they did any hammering at all.  It could cause a hole or tear in diaphragm.  check them really close as holes can be small.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Apr 02, 2019, 15:33:32
No, the diaphragms I used were from Common Motor Collective, and I sent them to PJ when he rebuilt everything. So, with that being said, I am not sure if they have the tab on the edge or if they dont have a tab.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on Apr 02, 2019, 18:22:11
No, the diaphragms I used were from Common Motor Collective, and I sent them to PJ when he rebuilt everything. So, with that being said, I am not sure if they have the tab on the edge or if they dont have a tab.

They donít only Honda have it.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Apr 02, 2019, 18:28:46
Should I somehow find some honda ones?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on Apr 02, 2019, 20:09:26
Not yet.  Yours may run great as is.

PJ did my carbs years ago.  He may now offer a fix for the aftermarket diaphragms.  Idk that they even need a "fix" these days, they may be good to go.

I dont have any experience w diaphragms from CMC.  Mine wasnt even runnable w JBM diaphragms.  (allowing slides to lift WAY to early)

I got brand new slides, diaphragms and springs from Honda and it runs great.  (Honda no longer offers them.)

You can still find them for the time being.  Bike Bandit says they have the stock Honda kits (slides & diaphragms w springs). But there $$$.

https://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/detail/honda/16022-369-004/b583812?m=9438&sch=399342


Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Apr 02, 2019, 20:39:46
Yep, I drill the lift holes to compensate for slightly stiffer aftermarket diaphragms. It's easy enough to set them with lift holes to 'rear' of carbs. If the aftermaerket ones work, they will usually work for many years. However, JBM has had a few fuck ups where the mounting ring is not consistent, I had one diaphragm split while it was sitting on the bench, Paul basically told me to F*** off as they were past the 30 day warranty  his idea of 'customer service' sucks
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Apr 05, 2019, 16:22:49
Sorry it took so long for update. Do you guys see anything amiss?
It was pretty difficult to pull from the hole. The upper edge of the slide, where the discoloration is, is slightly sticky... slightly.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Apr 05, 2019, 16:26:56
I just noticed this. To the left the little lip. And the two scratches on the face  Still difficult to push back in. Is that normal
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Apr 05, 2019, 18:08:58
No. It should slide easily.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: pidjones on Apr 05, 2019, 18:55:04
With close to zero friction.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on Apr 05, 2019, 20:09:49
Yep it was hammering that's exactly what I had down on the needle end.

File any edges of smooth. 

Its due to getting twisted around in there backwards, vents on engine side.

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/11494-070614073955-3741327.jpeg)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Apr 06, 2019, 19:38:28
Got it all back together properly now. Itís still idling so high.
It also creeps when it isles. Canít figure it out
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on Apr 07, 2019, 21:03:26
Put a pair of sync gauges on it.

And once its fully warmed up.  Like 10 minutes or more.  Adjust A/F mix for fastest idle, according to the workshop manual procedure.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Apr 09, 2019, 18:13:19
No idea what the sticky stuff is on top of slides,? Slides were clean and correctly installed when I did them so something happened in transit or when fitted?Use some brake cleaner or glue remover on a rag to wipe the stuff off, make sure not to get any on the diaphragms. I'm going to post some new pictures in carb/fuel section, probably a new thread or maybe add to a 'sticky'? I udjusted the link angles as they are always 'out', the set I just did were off by 30 degree's Bugger it, I'm posting them here as well ;D
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Apr 15, 2019, 08:05:59
Update:

Bike still wasn't idling correctly, no matter what I did. Then it wasn't getting fuel. I took the carbs off, took the float bowls off to ensure nothing was gummed up. Took the fuel lines off and blew out the filters, they had a little bit of stuff in them which is what I expected because after I cleaned the tank there was some residual particles I couldn't get out. Then I removed the petcock and it was a bit more gunked up, so I cleaned it real well and got some more of the rust particles out of the tank, rinsed and dried and put in fresh fuel.
With the carbs off, I noticed that when PJ had them, he replaced a throttle shaft plug, but not both. The one he had not replaced was sort of beat up, and had a dent in it and was a little beat around the edges so I took the chance and put some silicon over the plug and made sure there were no air gaps..... put it all back on the bike and started it up, idled high for a minute or two then right on down where it was supposed to be.
So now, like trek told me to do I will sync the carbs once I get the opportunity and take it for a ride! Thank you all for the help
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Apr 15, 2019, 13:23:16
Does anyone have any recommendations on any particular master cylinder, with the pressure sensor built in, for these bikes? I'd rather not spend the money on a nissin but I will if I have to, I picked one up from dime city a while ago(not sure of brand), the aluminum casting turned out to be corrupted or just poor quality.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: advCo on Apr 15, 2019, 13:27:19
I used a "Grimeca" - most likely a knockoff - from eBay on my 360. Worked fine for me.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Apr 22, 2019, 09:18:32
For anyone who cares.
Here is the bike, my own personal hunk of junk,  pretty much in its final form. I would still like to build a better exhaust but this will do for now. This thing is actually pretty quick on the back roads! It's a blast to ride. It is not pretty by no means, but it is certainly an accomplishment.

In the first photo of me riding down the drive way, you see me.. a happy individual going to terrorize the gravel roads.

In the second photo, you see me, a dog tired individual pushing a 300lb motorcycle up a 3000ft driveway to the farm (distance, not elevation) after pushing down said gravel roads because I forgot to check fuel levels. And we don't have cell service in the middle of nowhere TN.
Note that the second two photos were taken by the driveway security cameras, which promptly sends every photo to my brothers, both of which quickly laughed at me.

Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: pidjones on Apr 22, 2019, 09:57:50
Does it run right (with fuel)? Is it safe? Is it going to be a show bike? Do you love it? Who cares what it looks like? To me, it looks like a blast.

That road looks like you used drain field gravel. Needs some crusher run.

"Nowhere" isn't near Clinton, is it? Our cell service sucks, too.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Apr 22, 2019, 10:16:15
Runs great with fuel haha, and most certainly not going to be a show bike.

You're 100% correct about the gravel. We start with 3/4", use the box bland, then add crushed run when needed to pack down. But.. we don't do that often. Our drive way is considered a '"private road", the previous owners got really old and couldn't take care of it anymore. With it being a private road, the county will bring out a dump truck and a blade and fix it about every month for free since run-off is so bad. They don't typically run ditches on the edge of the drive like they should.... but they do it for free, and provide the gravel for free so where can I complain?
Eventually we would like take it back from the county as a private road, to chip and drip the entire drive way, but at 3,000 ft long and 12 ft wide, the county wants to charge around $40,000, so for now they can keep bringing their free gravel.

Nope, we are in a place called Auburntown. About parallel to Woodbury. Which is about 30 minutes outside of Murfreesboro.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Apr 22, 2019, 13:45:43
Glad to hear it's finally 'fixed' (they are never really finished  ;D ) 360's are fun bikes, quick enough and 'light' enough not to get you in too much trouble however you use them. I think I've been through Murfreesbor a couple of times while driving up to see wife's relatives in NH  8) Having pics delivered to brother ...LOL, I know mine would be in hysterics
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Apr 22, 2019, 15:09:06
Glad to hear it's finally 'fixed' (they are never really finished  ;D ) 360's are fun bikes, quick enough and 'light' enough not to get you in too much trouble however you use them. I think I've been through Murfreesbor a couple of times while driving up to see wife's relatives in NH  8) Having pics delivered to brother ...LOL, I know mine would be in hysterics

Me too! Thank you for all of your help with it, I am sure I will break something and need everyone here's help once again. And will definitely need help with the cb550 project I have.
If you've passed through Chattanooga headed to Nashville I can guarantee you've passed through Murfreesboro. It is like the next nashville or knoxville, the city has grown SO much.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: pidjones on Apr 22, 2019, 19:21:53
Runs great with fuel haha, and most certainly not going to be a show bike.

You're 100% correct about the gravel. We start with 3/4", use the box bland, then add crushed run when needed to pack down. But.. we don't do that often. Our drive way is considered a '"private road", the previous owners got really old and couldn't take care of it anymore. With it being a private road, the county will bring out a dump truck and a blade and fix it about every month for free since run-off is so bad. They don't typically run ditches on the edge of the drive like they should.... but they do it for free, and provide the gravel for free so where can I complain?
Eventually we would like take it back from the county as a private road, to chip and drip the entire drive way, but at 3,000 ft long and 12 ft wide, the county wants to charge around $40,000, so for now they can keep bringing their free gravel.

Nope, we are in a place called Auburntown. About parallel to Woodbury. Which is about 30 minutes outside of Murfreesboro.
Glad the county took ours in, paved with asphalt and plows after a snow (well, a day or two after). I was paying $250 a year for a load of gravel spread back in the 80's because the only other neighbor on it then wouldn't pay anything and the county wouldn't touch it. After  taking it in they did marginal work on it and then a subdivision was built off of it and they paved it all.
I have a friend that lives in Snail Shell Cave, South of Murfreesboro.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Apr 23, 2019, 08:06:54
I know exactly where that is but I havent ever actually visited over there before, its pretty over in that area.

If we had neighbors I think we would be ok with the county taking the road over. There is two groups of people that live on the road, my brothers and I, and another old farmer. Between both groups is over 1500 acres (the old farmer owning most), but we both own both sides of the road (paved) and nobody ever comes down it but us because it looks like a drive way. And then there is the actual drive way(unpaved) to our house, much more private than the road, and that is what we would like to take back as purely private. Once in a blue moon someone will drive right up to our house and we will ask what they're doing and they'll say "oh just exploring down some back roads". I guess we just dont want anyone to have a reason to come right up to our houses... with the possibility of seeing all of our equipment or taking anything.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: pidjones on Apr 23, 2019, 20:34:13
Shoot a few and mount their hides by the road. No, that's not Politically Correct anymore. The county ran their Terrain King over our Private Drive signs that we put up because people would drive around our house on our driveway.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Apr 25, 2019, 21:00:35
Well rode a good bit this week, took it out on a bigger highway (speed limit 65) and it did well then starting backfiring. Got it home safely.
Now when I start it up cold, it runs amazing. Then once warm, it will start to bog, then eventually die and is hard to start back up. And it backfires and the throttle hangs when revved. Hanging throttle is indicative of carbs not being synced properly, so i threw my gauge on and sure enough it isnt synced any longer. I checked for vaccum leaks, none. Timing is dead on. when cold, the valves are dead on. Turning the sync screw doesn't change anything,

Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: raptormeat on Apr 26, 2019, 00:23:35
the sync screw should definitely change your idle speed if bike is running, and if u have a vacuum setup to test carbs it definitely moves needles/whatever liquid your measuring vacuum with...check uncompressed height of both carb vacuum springs for equal length. got those little o-rings in the air/fuel mixture passages?

sounds like youre issue when running is too rich. when the bike gets hot its running too rich. try running with no filters once warm, see if better.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on Apr 26, 2019, 08:53:56
Turning the sync screw doesn't change anything,


Just to be clear.  Turning the SYNC screw doesn't change anything???

If this is the case, something is very whack.  pull em off and check things out.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on Apr 26, 2019, 08:56:38
(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/11494-200917112414-271789.jpeg)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Apr 26, 2019, 08:59:35
Just to be clear.  Turning the SYNC screw doesn't change anything???

If this is the case, something is very whack.  pull em off and check things out.

That's the plan as soon as I get off work. I should be reading my gauge in cmHg right?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on Apr 26, 2019, 10:09:43
Really doesnít matter, just so long as they are the same at idle.  In a perfect world they would also be the same through rpm range.  But 360 owners donít live in a perfect world.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Apr 26, 2019, 12:16:36
Haha no kidding, i used to think 360s would Be pretty simple but they are the motorcycles with the most mind of their own.
Think I found my issue, the shins underneath the snap ring holding the right point on have come out, donít know how cause the snap ring is still on, but they arenít there. Maybe never came with. The point rocker slides up and down itís shafts and sometimes binds causing the right cylinder not to fire. When I hold it down in its proper position, it fires correctly and is synced properly. Shame I didnít notice when I checked timing the other day
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on Apr 26, 2019, 14:19:44
Great you found that issue.
But still need to find the reason sync adjuster isnít functional.  Thatís a big weird issue.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Apr 27, 2019, 03:19:07
Really doesnít matter, just so long as they are the same at idle.  In a perfect world they would also be the same through rpm range.  But 360 owners donít live in a perfect world.
I always check sync by sllloooowwwllly opening throttle to around 4,000 rpm. They are almost always still in sync until slides start lifting (if not, the idle sync isn't quite right)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on Apr 27, 2019, 07:03:09
I always check sync by sllloooowwwllly opening throttle to around 4,000 rpm. They are almost always still in sync until slides start lifting (if not, the idle sync isn't quite right)

haha I guess Im more of a Blip it and forget it, kinda guy.   ;D
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Apr 29, 2019, 10:15:16
Took the carbs apart, the spring in between the sync screw was binded. So I tried to find one similar to it at fastenal, and they didn't have one in stock. But they are ordering a few that I can try out, I also found one in our spare tractor parts that is apart of the throttle linkage of an 86 ford 5610 that I think will work perfectly.

But.... with my exhaust being deafeningly loud its time to build one.

For the money, do yall think this would be a good kit to start with? Seems pretty well suited
http://www.tcbroschoppers.com/yamaha-xs650-builder-exhaust-kit-1-5-inch-diameter.html

I would probably have make own exhaust collars/flanges, which isn't to big of a deal. I can draw them and have them cut via cnc.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Apr 30, 2019, 13:18:57
Exhaust kit is a decent price. Diameter is a bit big but will work on 360. You may need a larger secondary main jet, 117.5~122.5. Don't know what happened to sync screw spring, was OK when fitted. I still don't have definitive angles for operating arms, you may need a small round file to modify the opening depth as I found they do not always line up even close, around 1mm or more different length. The pictures Trek posted above show arms pretty much parallel. I don't know if the production variations are causing problem? Be very careful if you try and bend arms, the shafts are brass and can easily break. I support the flat plate  with a small channel lock when adjusting angles
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: advCo on Apr 30, 2019, 13:41:39
http://www.mandrelbends.com/
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Apr 30, 2019, 15:11:45
The spring I think was just old? The bottom piece broke when it binded (don't think that is a word), but its not a big deal at all. The one from fastenal's spring stiffness was a bit to much, made turning the screw difficult so I opted for the tractor part. Works pretty much perfectly.  I am enjoying ironing out all the small issues on this thing, I see why you guys do it so much.

Hey advco, thank you for that link. Do you guys have any particular type of steel that would be best? Is cb360 exhaust a 1.25" od? I measured mine, maybe I just don't remember correctly.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Apr 30, 2019, 15:15:52
Also... stainless or just plain aluminized?
My welding skills are sub par, but thats what practice is for. And I only have the mig set up for my miller multimatic, Is welding stainless with mig an acceptable thing?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: advCo on Apr 30, 2019, 15:28:02
The spring I think was just old? The bottom piece broke when it binded (don't think that is a word), but its not a big deal at all. The one from fastenal's spring stiffness was a bit to much, made turning the screw difficult so I opted for the tractor part. Works pretty much perfectly.  I am enjoying ironing out all the small issues on this thing, I see why you guys do it so much.

Hey advco, thank you for that link. Do you guys have any particular type of steel that would be best? Is cb360 exhaust a 1.25" od? I measured mine, maybe I just don't remember correctly.

I can't remember, I think its all 1.5" tube. I used mild steel and painted it on the 2-into-1 I made.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Apr 30, 2019, 16:19:25
Mild steel uncoated is easiest to weld. Aluminised will remove oxegen as it's heated. I've used it but don't reallylike it (unless it's free from dumpster  ;) )
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 01, 2019, 09:51:31
Based on this photo do you guys think I would benefit by going to a more rear positioned shifter and brake pedal? When riding at first for a few minutes I will get some cramps in my hips, then I stretch my legs out and they go away. Sitting back on the seat relieves this pretty well, but I think this brat seat is just so low it is inevitable, sorta like sitting on a big harley with mid controls type of cramps. The only concern with rear sets, is I ride on back roads pretty much predominantly... a lot of gravel which means I can go a little sideways in turns fairly easily cause I like to imagine  I am a cool flat track racer, and that makes me drop a foot when needed. Would rear sets be harder to recover from when I start drifting like this? I am 6'1" for reference.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: irk miller on May 01, 2019, 09:56:48
Leaned over with rear sets is a less stable position.  You benefit on terrain like that from being more upright.  Dirt bike seats are long and have that front horn for moving back and forth on the seat as needed for balance and grip.  Move your ass back to get weight shifted to the rear wheel on an incline, move your ass forward to load up the front, etc.  Being good and upright and able to squeeze the tank with your thighs is a good, stable way to take twisties.  You'll probably benefit from dropping your pegs to accommodate your height.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 01, 2019, 10:09:32
Would getting a set of higher bars help as well? Higher and wider more specifically.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: irk miller on May 01, 2019, 10:48:33
I think so.  The wider your handlebars, the "slower" your turning since you are lengthening your turning radius.  But, you are more stable.  When I raced mountain bikes, I tended to cut a couple of inches off the ends of my bars to give me quicker steering on trails at higher speeds.  The downfall was much less stable steering on roadways and straightaways, especially at high speeds.  You might want to consider an ATV bar, which has a taller rise than the MX bars. 

(https://thumpertalk.com/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n360/derangedhermit_photos/bars2.jpg&key=2cf469648bd8979e4d45f8702217d460dc66641d4b629cf86a8a214bb6c563f3)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 01, 2019, 10:55:21
Word, thank you very much. I have a few sets of bars I am going to try before I order some new ones.
If I get the chance today, I am going to try and draw up a set of foot pegs that would mount in the same location, but go lower than stock position. Then have them made on the rapid prototype(if 6 hours is considered rapid) to test fitment.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on May 01, 2019, 16:55:33
If your riding mainly dirt roads slightly lower  rearward footrests will be a good idea in view of your height. I managed to get a set of CB400f footrest hangers (took a while, they are pretty rare, one from Canada, forget where other came from either USA or Britain?) Your a couple of inches taller than me and I find 360 bit low in the seat for off road. A taller thicker seat would be a real good idea but of course it would ruin look when parked. Moving footrests slightly further back will make it easier to control front end when 'drifting' (looks and feels great when it works, sucks when you high-side off a pothole  ;) ) As for changing bars, best way I've found for height and position is to block bike upright, sit on it in 'best' position, raise arms above your head, close eyes and lower hands/arms to where they feel right. You'll need helper to measure width and height from top yoke. It won't be perfect but is a good starting point., being centralised on a  'real' dirtbike makes life simpler, you can always adjust for riding style after basic set up, generally tilt bars slightly is enough
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Jimbonaut on May 01, 2019, 17:17:26
I have those Pro Taper ATV High rise bars on my KLR - absolutely love them.  I have a different ride than you, sure, but I'm a similar height and never liked the lower, narrower Moose bars I had on there before.  I feel stable, planted and totally comfortable. 
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 02, 2019, 17:45:49
Do those pro taper bars actually have a taper? As in, are they thicker at the grips than at the mounting points?


And just because I may not have expressed it enough, to anyone that has chimed in and given advice or helped in anyway id like to say thank you. Yall are some cool dudes.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Jimbonaut on May 02, 2019, 18:23:25
My bars are from the SE range (SE = Seven Eighths, the thickness of the bar).  No contour, but the SE range seems to have the widest selection of bends, and the only one I could find with the ATV High bend.  They also make contoured bars (the EVO and Contour, maybe others) which are thicker (1⅛" at the clamp) but tapered to the grip.  Good luck man, choosing bars can be a bit of a ballache!
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 02, 2019, 18:26:22
My bars are from the SE range (SE = Seven Eighths, the thickness of the bar).  No contour, but the SE range seems to have the widest selection of bends, and the only one I could find with the ATV High bend.  They also make contoured bars (the EVO and Contour, maybe others) which are thicker (1⅛" at the clamp) but tapered to the grip.  Good luck man, choosing bars can be a bit of a ballache!

Yeah it kinda is proving to be. I hate all the bars I currently have (all stock). And I don't want to order something and then not like it lol
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Jimbonaut on May 02, 2019, 18:39:48
Here's an eyeball on how the ATV High bend looks on my ride -

(https://i.imgur.com/ZbZzCGe.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/uW6o6Sg.jpg)

Next time I'm in the garage I can take a measurement of the end to end.  They're wide, I know that.  I'm fairly broad shouldered and felt too cramped with the Moose bars I had on there before, and these things are nice and high too without being ludicrous.  They're good mate.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 02, 2019, 18:41:06
I am convinced
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Jimbonaut on May 02, 2019, 18:44:52
Right on!  (if you hate them, I was never here...)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 02, 2019, 21:20:12
In the mean time of waiting for parts to arrive, I decided I wanted to make a leather tool roll. Just for the essentials when I break down on this machine, cause I Will.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 07, 2019, 20:51:40
So this happened.... I was riding and then I heard a clanking so I pulled in the clutch and hit the kill switch as fast as I could.... this breaks my heart.
can I use the least strong loctite on these things so they NEVER come out unless I want them to?
Cam gear destroyed, cam chain destroyed, cam chain tensioner arms destroyed. Does replacing the cam chain constitute removing entire top end? Or do I need to take everything including the jugs off?
I guess it could always be worse.. :)

Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on May 07, 2019, 22:00:21
Well dagnabbit. 

Seems a drop of purple locktite should do the trick.

I imagine a complete teardown would be in order and easy as any other approach.  Gotta fit the chain around crankshaft.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on May 08, 2019, 19:33:01
Well that totally sucks ass. Just got it 'finished and it 'F***** up.  :(   
 Tappet adjusters are adju8sters, you need to be able to loosen them. If they back off, they were either not tight or were too tight at some time and have damaged threads (very common) Loctite isn't really a good idea. Is the cam sprocket cracked? (looks like it is)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 08, 2019, 21:00:31
Well that totally sucks ass. Just got it 'finished and it 'F***** up.  :(   
 Tappet adjusters are adju8sters, you need to be able to loosen them. If they back off, they were either not tight or were too tight at some time and have damaged threads (very common) Loctite isn't really a good idea. Is the cam sprocket cracked? (looks like it is)

Even purple loctite? Itís made to be undone. But yes, when I said cam gear thatís what I meant. Itís wrecked, the tensioners are obliterated too, sorta funny to look at really.

I guess the plus side of doing all this work to get hear is that I can do it all over again in a fairly short amount of time haha. Iíll post some really good photos of the carnage once I get it all replaced.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: advCo on May 08, 2019, 22:18:18
Actually, You can leave the top end bolted together. Flip it over and split the cases. The cam chain is endless and the crank will need to be removed and the cam chain fit over it. Then put the crank back in, clean and re-seal the cases and torque them up.

Its actually not a bad job. I had to re-do mine for some reason, and I had it done in an afternoon.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on May 08, 2019, 22:23:35
Yup. I flipped mine to do the transmission. Could have been worse.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 09, 2019, 05:52:48
The chain common motor sells comes unlinked, itís the press fitting type, so I think I will go that route. Attach it to the old cam chain, pull them both through, then press the last link in. Unless..:: you guys donít think that is the best chain for this

For your consideration:
https://www.common-motor.com/honda-360-cam-chain
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on May 09, 2019, 08:32:41
Sounds great.  Could be just the ticket.

I installed a heavy duty cb750 cam chain on my 360, took 3 masters before I got a peen I was happy with.  Using a hammer and punch. 
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 09, 2019, 08:44:11
Sounds great.  Could be just the ticket.

I installed a heavy duty cb750 cam chain on my 360, took 3 masters before I got a peen I was happy with.  Using a hammer and punch.

Do most cam chains work for these bikes? Example could I use a cb550 chain?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: advCo on May 09, 2019, 09:25:13
Do most cam chains work for these bikes? Example could I use a cb550 chain?

Just confirm that the # of links are the same. When you count links on a chain each pin is a "link"

I prefer the endless type for a cam chain as you don't have to worry about peening and you just throw it in and forget about it forever.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on May 09, 2019, 11:14:14
Do most cam chains work for these bikes? Example could I use a cb550 chain?

Whatís the advantage?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 09, 2019, 11:17:24
I have a spare cb550 engine I could rip apart.... but the chain is only $40.. I think I will just buy it
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on May 09, 2019, 11:50:13
Do most cam chains work for these bikes? Example could I use a cb550 chain?
I've used CB750 'race' chain but it does need a few links cut off. ( iCB750 chain is same as CB 350 though so direct fit on 350)
Actually, You can leave the top end bolted together. Flip it over and split the cases. The cam chain is endless and the crank will need to be removed and the cam chain fit over it. Then put the crank back in, clean and re-seal the cases and torque them up.

Its actually not a bad job. I had to re-do mine for some reason, and I had it done in an afternoon.
Isn't possible to do it without stripping top end, connecting rods are one piece on 360.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 16, 2019, 07:17:52
For your viewing pleasure. Cam chain wasn't as ruined as I imagined, still had a few broken links. Tensioners are destroyed though. And the sprocket is bad. Highlighted where the damage was.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 17, 2019, 09:00:59
Fully reassembled the engine last night. I got to the point of adjusting my valves and I noticed the engine was a little bit more difficult to turn over, and was "falling past" tdc way quicker.. if that makes sense. When rotating to left cylinder tdc and placing my finger over the spark plug hole it isn't making much compression. I will need to get a tester to verify. But when rotating through the intake stroke, it is not "sucking" as hard as it normally would on the left cylinder as well.

I am taking it back apart today after work. And it would make sense that if my valves were not adjusted properly then the compression could be off right? Just thought it was strange it was not "intaking" correctly either. I guess it isn't out of the question there could be a bent valve causing this?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: advCo on May 17, 2019, 09:21:43
Fully reassembled the engine last night. I got to the point of adjusting my valves and I noticed the engine was a little bit more difficult to turn over, and was "falling past" tdc way quicker.. if that makes sense. When rotating to left cylinder tdc and placing my finger over the spark plug hole it isn't making much compression. I will need to get a tester to verify. But when rotating through the intake stroke, it is not "sucking" as hard as it normally would on the left cylinder as well.

I am taking it back apart today after work. And it would make sense that if my valves were not adjusted properly then the compression could be off right? Just thought it was strange it was not "intaking" correctly either. I guess it isn't out of the question there could be a bent valve causing this?

The tappet would have to be adjusted super tight in order to keep a valve open for the entire stroke, in theory. I don't even know if its possible to adjust it that far on a 360. You're 100% sure you have the cam timed correctly?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 17, 2019, 09:27:50
The tappet would have to be adjusted super tight in order to keep a valve open for the entire stroke, in theory. I don't even know if its possible to adjust it that far on a 360. You're 100% sure you have the cam timed correctly?

That was my first thought before I took the head off. Was to retime the cam, then try everything again.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 17, 2019, 09:28:19
And then if it isnt fixed at that point.. take it all the way down lol.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: advCo on May 17, 2019, 09:32:40
And then if it isnt fixed at that point.. take it all the way down lol.

Probably just pull the head. From what happened I find it unlikely you have a bent valve (hopefully not), but there's only one way to find out.

At least you're probably getting fast at tearing it down LOL
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 17, 2019, 10:30:31
Probably just pull the head. From what happened I find it unlikely you have a bent valve (hopefully not), but there's only one way to find out.

At least you're probably getting fast at tearing it down LOL

Lol thats for sure! I swear I can pull the entire engine out in twenty minutes then have the bottom end taken off in another 20 or less. There was one day when I was replacing the kickstart shaft that I removed then stripped the bottom end 2 times in just a few hours. Then I had to again when I felt like it didn't feel right.. again.. And then there was the first time I took it out of the frame. And ive taken the top end apart at least 7 times. cb360s are the most labor intensive motorcycles I swear
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: advCo on May 17, 2019, 11:10:22
Lol thats for sure! I swear I can pull the entire engine out in twenty minutes then have the bottom end taken off in another 20 or less. There was one day when I was replacing the kickstart shaft that I removed then stripped the bottom end 2 times in just a few hours. Then I had to again when I felt like it didn't feel right.. again.. And then there was the first time I took it out of the frame. And ive taken the top end apart at least 7 times. cb360s are the most labor intensive motorcycles I swear

Ha, you'll get it right eventually. I had to open my 360 engine up 3 times before I got it all squared away - it was also my first build so there was a learning curve.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on May 17, 2019, 11:13:20
Only three times? I think I'm on iteration 20.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on May 17, 2019, 15:33:48
Lol thats for sure! I swear I can pull the entire engine out in twenty minutes then have the bottom end taken off in another 20 or less. There was one day when I was replacing the kickstart shaft that I removed then stripped the bottom end 2 times in just a few hours. Then I had to again when I felt like it didn't feel right.. again.. And then there was the first time I took it out of the frame. And ive taken the top end apart at least 7 times. cb360s are the most labor intensive motorcycles I swear
Nope, 350, 450/500 are much worse in my opinion. With those you have to remove engine every time you need top end off. As you've found out, pulling engine is a quick process on 360  >:(
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 17, 2019, 16:12:31
Maybe labor intensive wasnt the right word. They are the most finicky. They refuse to run right unless very very particular conditions are met lol, they remind me of drawing in solidworks. I am constantly having to fix rebuild errors.  I had a 2001 ducati 749 that when removing the fairing, though it was little twisty d ring things... WERE SUCH A PAIN TO PUT BACK ON. Changing the oil on it was even a little annoying,.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on May 17, 2019, 19:41:30
You'll be a 360 expert soon enough then 'everything' on them is quick and simple  ;D
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on May 18, 2019, 07:43:16
They refuse to run right unless very very particular conditions are met


Once you hit her sweet spot.  She will run super for years of fun.

Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on May 18, 2019, 17:49:13
Yeah, makes life a little boring when they get reliable  ;D
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on May 18, 2019, 21:02:48
Yeah, makes life a little boring when they get reliable  ;D

Ha, Im currently planning phase restoration #4 for Cherry bomb now! 

Making her into a completely different machine...AGAIN.

Kinda overwhelmed at the moment though.  As I'm Also planning phase #2 for the Black Knight.

Then Id also like to re-paint Piglet.  hahaha
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: irk miller on May 18, 2019, 21:14:03
Ha, Im currently planning phase restoration #4 for Cherry bomb now! 

As I'm Also planning phase #2 for the Black Knight.
These statements made my day.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on May 18, 2019, 22:49:09
These statements made my day.

 8). Ever evolving sculptures my man.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 18, 2019, 23:14:52
Back up and running! :) Soooooooo last night I took the top end back part, the cam chain tensioner (the actual bottom piece) had moved when the initial destruction happened. So I threaded a piece of all thread in it and pulled it down. Fixed it. Compression still seems low, and I think A leaking head gasket could be to blame. I can see some bubbles coming from between the head and the jugs when itís running for a little bit.
Also,  got a little bit of popping out of the exhaust. And fuel comes back out the left carb a little. Any ideas? Maybe a bad head gasket is to blame?
Iím gonna retime it tomorrow to hopefully elimate the popping. Also going to re set the valves just to cure some boredom, and hopefully that will make the fuel stop coming out the back.

These stupid points that I bought from common motor, after the last set broke, are beginning to break exactly like the last set so Iím a little irritated with that. Iíll have to try and find a genuine Honda set.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on May 19, 2019, 07:00:13
Did you use a split cam chain w master?

You could have checked valves for leaks by filling the intakes and exhaust ports w alcohol, letting them sit for 30min - 1hr.

Head bolts can benefit from being torqued to spec then sit 24 hours, then, one at a time - relieve and retorque again to required spec.

Ive got OEM Honda points - never an issue.

If it has a bent valve there's a chance you will need a new valve guide since running it.

Example of testing for valve leaks in my 400F w alcohol through intakes and exhausts filled w alcohol, after honing valves.

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/11494-031118094009-462054.jpeg)

(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/11494-031118094009-46221419.jpeg)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on May 19, 2019, 12:14:45
OEM or aftermarket head gaskets are not designed to be re-used, (although people do and 'get away' with it) it's another reason I much prefer solid copper , they pretty much last forever. Check the 6mm bolts at ends of head are torqued properly plus are not stretched or otherwise damaged.  (pull, plugs and use a box end, they should only be about 9/ft /lbs) It's VERY easy to over tighten and either strip thread or stretch bolts, I remember checking 6mm bolts (long time ago, probably 1980's?) of the techs in shop everyone (averaged) about 14ft/lbs, myself included. I got a lot more careful after that, 72~110 inch pounds feels like it's going to fall out but is correct (although it was probably another 20+ yrs before I bought an inch pound torque wrench- which I rarely use - even today) I would re-check everything before deciding to pull it apart again, rushing means you may have something close but not right. When testing valves with alcohol, 30 seconds is more than enough, in fact may books used to say 10 seconds as valve is never closed that long in a running engine plus valve head and seat work harden as engine is running
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 19, 2019, 12:44:36
I did use a split cam chain with a press in master link. Donít let anyone tell you itís easier, itís just as hard as splitting the engine.

Iím thinking Iím going to take the engine apart, though I donít have a compression tester I donít feel any compression on my finger when rotating through on left cylinder. , it would just make sense to check the rings and the valves anyway. Hopefully I donít have a bent valve, even though it would be the easiest to fix... the machine shop here takes forever to get things done and if Iím replacing one valve would it make sense to go ahead and do every single one of them?
Iím just speculating since nothing is apart at the moment
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 19, 2019, 12:46:36
Well, maybe Iíll recheck the head bolt torques. Thatís not a bad idea.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on May 20, 2019, 03:27:34
It doesn't make economic sense to replace all the valves if they are OK although fitting oversize intake valves is a good idea (exhaust valves don't need the 1mm oversize, they could be even smaller than 28mm and you wouldn't loose power) Because the valve stem is pretty big diameter it's very difficult to bend valve bad enough to crack the guides, I've only changed them when worn oversize and even then rarely as very few engines got high enough miles (but a lot of abuse)I don't mind revving pretty stock motors to 11,000 or more in my bikes (but the 390 didn't get much over 9500 as it had 'heavy' pistons, wasn't sure rods would take  it))
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 20, 2019, 18:21:55
Question:

In the manual it doesn't say anything specific about when adjusting the cam timing that when you tighten down the cam sprocket to the cam, the left cylinders lobes need to be pointed down towards the engine. Is this something that is absolutely necessary? I didn't pay attention to this when assembling, just set the cam timing, then bolted the sprocket on, then turned the engine over where the lobes were all pointed down then re installed everything.

Could this be the reason I was getting fuel pushed out the carb? The valves work properly. Ah! Just keep finding reasons to take everything apart. that will ensue this afternoon.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on May 20, 2019, 20:19:01
If you did cam timing properly it will be exactly like in manual. As long as the 'line' on cam sprocket was completely level (or very very slightly tilted down at front to compensate for new chain) it will be fine as on the 360degree rotation the lobes will be up at TDC. (valves on overlap) The only time its a problem is when your a tootrh out (as you found out already)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 20, 2019, 22:27:51
Well. The cam timing was perfect. I had a sneaking suspicionabout that left cylinder intake valve since it was pushing fuel out of the carb.
Bent valve. It was super difficult to pull out of the valve guide.

I pulled the head off. And looked and the valve was sorta pushed up. I shined a light in the intake and light shines all the way around.
The framing square is all that I had that was perfectly straight for reference. When I roll it on a piece of granite it ďbumpsĒ every time it rolls. So to me that means bent. All the other have no issues though.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 20, 2019, 22:28:10
Does anyone know where I can get one single valve
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on May 20, 2019, 23:11:35
valve

https://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-HONDA-CB350-CL350-SL350-CB360-CL360-CJ360-INTAKE-VALVE-BRAND-NEW/392262008210?epid=1011810962&hash=item5b54a33d92:g:Tf0AAOSwM7lccELj

Guide

https://www.ebay.com/p/12205-362-305-NOS-Honda-Valve-Guide-Cj360-Xl175-Y381e/1163497972
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on May 20, 2019, 23:25:19
Ho hum, I was pretty convinced it was exhaust side hitting piston. Intakes, having the 34mm head have more leverage to bend. You did de-burr around the cotter groove before trying to pull valve from head? If the top end of stem is bent that's an assembly issue. The adjuster screw caught on the 1/2mm or so sticking out from spring retainer. It's the reason I've always taught people to back off adjusters before stripping engine and have tips level with bottom of rocker arm on re-assembly. (since the early 70's when I was teaching my brothers and sister) $38.00 seems a bit high for stock valve? (guess I'm still in the 70's  ;D ) I wish sellers would give stem diameter, head diameter and length, it would make finding replacements or oversize valves too easy.  ;)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: advCo on May 20, 2019, 23:32:37
Bummer but at least you found the problem. Might as well check that your other valves have a really good seal. I'd really be considering just sending the head to a machine shop and having them work it over, cut new seats and all at this point.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on May 21, 2019, 02:40:50
If you can't DIY it you better have a good job to pay for something like that.   
I would guess around $250 ~$450.? 10~15 yrs ago it cost about $25.00 'per hole' to have valve seats cut, valve guide replacement $20 each, cutting, etc extra.  $200 or more a set ( think that may be with 45deg seats done?) To do it properly is going to take at least 4 hrs so I guess it depends on labor rates? 
  Unless you know the shop very well I would be very wary of a cheep price. You can get automotive done cheaper as they can set up for at least 8 valves of much larger diameter, many automotive shops won't even look at motorcycle stuff and many bike shops are only interested in high dollar restorations or Harley's (in which case equipment would be too big) If I could get my head together (and I mean mine not a cylinder head) I would offer but I've had a 360  head here about 3 yrs so far. I made a set of aluminum bronze guides but my step-grandson has hidden them somewhere, he loves the garage and workshop. Also looking into 35mm intakes from something different, may not work but I'll find out. 
 I think I have ordinary bearing bronze but would prefer to use 'the good stuff', particularly since they are already done. If you do fit new guide, make sure head is heated to about 250f, and guide is either drawn in with bol and shaped washer on valve seat or pressed in with correct holder sitting on valve seat. Hammering the iron guides is likely to crack them even though it was 'correct' in 1970's.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 21, 2019, 07:25:30
Are bronze guides worth it? Or am I better going with the stock nos ones?

When I had my cylinders bored and matched to my pistons, i had a valve job done as well. I will look again tonight, but I really don't think I gave them new guides for the valves. Which makes me think it is best I go ahead and replace them all for good measure, as I want to ride this bike worry free from now on. Plus I dont have the right tools to install a new guide. I could definitely lap the valve myself, but the new guide I dont think so.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 21, 2019, 15:08:16
Talked to a machine shop today, the one that did the work for me previously. $125 for the labor, $12 per valve guide install. So $175 is reasonable... But add up the cost of the valve, which I bought, plus all the other damage done.. $226 plus the $175... man breaking stuff costs lots of money. My dad likes to say "being stupid hurts huh?".

Oh, and the shop recommended bronze valve guides only because they don't wear out as quickly as iron. So bronze guides here I come.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on May 21, 2019, 19:32:50
Should be able to get a set of CB350/360 bronze guides cheaper than the NOS 360 Honda ones. They have way better heat transfer and wear about the same as original cast iron. (depending on type of bronze) Don't know how long I've recommended getting hold of a cheap single to play with when doing any sort of modifications, it's way cheaper to only buy one or two of anything but  the amount of education you get is the same as if you had a $10,000 engine
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: WhyNot on May 22, 2019, 08:37:48
Should be able to get a set of CB350/360 bronze guides cheaper than the NOS 360 Honda ones. They have way better heat transfer and wear about the same as original cast iron. (depending on type of bronze) Don't know how long I've recommended getting hold of a cheap single to play with when doing any sort of modifications, it's way cheaper to only buy one or two of anything but  the amount of education you get is the same as if you had a $10,000 engine

I've never gone into engines as far as I'm about to go into.

Good advice, I bought a CL350 trashed engine for cheap, and am practicing on it to get a feel for when I break into the CB350 engine I intend to rebuild and use.

Helps to gain confidence too.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 23, 2019, 15:15:29
Let it be known, valve seals are to expensive for what they are. $10 a piece??? Gotta be kidding me
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: advCo on May 23, 2019, 16:08:46
Let it be known, valve seals are to expensive for what they are. $10 a piece??? Gotta be kidding me

Here's a set for $10. Also on ebay you can get all 4 valve guides and seals for like $45.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HONDA-CB360-CL360-CJ360-CB-CL-CJ-360-VITON-VALVE-SEALS/232457755799?epid=26004701708&hash=item361f8fdc97:g:~PIAAMXQ9qpRSUQW:sc:USPSFirstClass!77357!US!-1
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on May 23, 2019, 16:10:00
Should be able to get better than OEM as they are still being made and used on something. I think I paid $12.00 for 4 for the blue ones which are higher temp 'plastic rubber'  ;D Crikey, that's unusual, price is lower now than 3~4 yrs ago
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 23, 2019, 16:18:43
I wish i had found those before. Thankfully, i had a gift certificate for one of the dealerships here in town that my sister gave me, so I only ended up spending like $13 or something.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: trek97 on May 23, 2019, 20:18:57
Here's a set for $10. Also on ebay you can get all 4 valve guides and seals for like $45.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HONDA-CB360-CL360-CJ360-CB-CL-CJ-360-VITON-VALVE-SEALS/232457755799?epid=26004701708&hash=item361f8fdc97:g:~PIAAMXQ9qpRSUQW:sc:USPSFirstClass!77357!US!-1

Same ones I installed maybe 7yrs ago.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 24, 2019, 15:14:38
Welp, Sloanís called me (the local dealer) and said they couldnít get my valve seals so they refunded me. And then with the gift certificate I got a pair of 100% goggles, since I needed some new ones anyway. And got those for free, which is dope!
Then just ordered the seals yíall recommended.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 31, 2019, 17:42:45
Top end went to the machine shop today. Bad news.
The other intake valve is worn badly and needs to be replaced. One exhaust valve has a large burn spot that took a chunk from it. So if Iím replacing three valves I might as well replace the 4th.
And also, he said he was checking the valve springs and they are no longer in spec. I figure I can find valves fairly easy, but I have no idea where to get springs. Does anyone have any inclination as to where?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 31, 2019, 17:45:20
WOuldit be worth buying a new (used head) all together and then using the parts off of it? My only worry is that it might have the same problems.

Are there any parts that are compatible from other bikes? Like the springs off a 550 or 450 or 350? Even a 750 maybe
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on May 31, 2019, 20:09:27
350 and 360springs are the same and dead easy to find. Very doubtful you'll find a good head cheap and even then it will most likely have 40 yr old valve springs. They should have a spring tester will know fitted length poundage and 'over the nose pressure. Honda probably still have something in production that uses same spring although finding it may not be easy. Stock wire diameter varies slightly, about 4.33mm for outer and 3.05 for inner springs. Outside of windings seems to be 32.00 nominal but measured at 32.20 to 32.30mm outer and 21.25 to 21.30 for inner springs . What lengths did he give you? I forget service spec but the ones I've measured are in the 47.75 to 48.50mm range. 'Race' springs are often shorter but have very slightly thicker wire (maybe 0.005"~0.010") better material? If I could afford it I would contact Comp Cams and see if they haev a single 'behive' or newer conical spring that could be fitted, lower poundage but better valve control as they don't surge or get into valve bounce so easily.  Long (Very long) time ago I actually did the math for 360 valves, they should be 'safe' up to 37,000 rpm ???
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on May 31, 2019, 22:54:48
Pj my dad said the same thing about contacting comp cams. I also found that boretech makes valve springs for a cb350 so thatís an option. I just donít want to drop an arm and a leg on these things.
What information do you figure comp cams would need? Would I need to send them an old valve for comparison
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Jun 01, 2019, 12:20:57
You can get valves for CB350. For springs, you could probably send a pair of old ones, valve weights and max expected rpm? Never know, you may be the newest supplier of 'race' springs for AHRMA CB350 since Bore Tech shut up shop. Todd Hennings ain't getting any younger either  ;D Several businesses here started with small parts for CB360's or similar......... If they don't have a stock part I doubt they will be interested in order for less than a few thousand though Some manufacturers are happy to get into a different market while others (Piper cams, Quaife transmissions) who built their businesses on motorcycles won't even answer e-mails about the stuff they made 40~50 yrs ago for motorcycles (since they got into WRC, F1, etc)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Jun 02, 2019, 17:43:17
http://www.rdvalvespring.com/
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jun 03, 2019, 07:02:53
http://www.rdvalvespring.com/

Thank you!! I have been searching online all weekend.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jun 03, 2019, 08:53:10
https://www.dimecitycycles.com/kibblewhite-titanium-racing-valve-spring-kit-fits-cb-cl-350t-68-73.html

This set or a set from

http://www.rdvalvespring.com/spring-kits.html


The prices are very comparable, within $20 of one another. So quality will be the deciding factor.

Any recommendations? 
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: advCo on Jun 03, 2019, 09:15:40
https://www.dimecitycycles.com/kibblewhite-titanium-racing-valve-spring-kit-fits-cb-cl-350t-68-73.html

This set or a set from

http://www.rdvalvespring.com/spring-kits.html


The prices are very comparable, within $20 of one another. So quality will be the deciding factor.

Any recommendations?

Or you could go NOS for a fraction of the price:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/14751-286-000-NOS-Honda-Spring-Valve-CB350-CJ360-CL350-CL360-W12022/312543855613?epid=1211844836&hash=item48c510c3fd%3Ag%3AdfsAAOSwtAlcmj7Q&LH_ItemCondition=3
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jun 03, 2019, 09:26:43
I like that with the kits I can get all 8 springs needed, plus the new seats and stuff at the same time instead of having to buy each individual part separately. Call it laziness I suppose, but sometimes I am willing to pay a convenience fee haha

I found on David Siler Spares he has the valves for sale. He has an aftermarket valve at $20 a piece. Is aftermarket for this an ok thing to go for?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Jun 03, 2019, 12:13:38
Dave Silver is in Britain, if the aftermarket were bad he would go broke there as the consumer protection laws actually do what they say unlike USA where it's up to you to pay atorney
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jun 03, 2019, 12:22:09
Then aftermarket valves are an ok thing lol.

So R/D just contacted me and said they have beehive style springs for $309.... are these spring worth that? Would they really be worth going to for my engine that isn't super "built" ? It's not a race bike, and it wasnt built to be on. Only .50 over wiseco pistons.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Jun 03, 2019, 12:24:30
Should be, Dave Silver has been in business too long to risk screwing up reputation (unless anyone in Britain knows better?) I may have lived in Florida too long, been here since 1999
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jun 06, 2019, 08:05:29
All parts purchased. Tired of things breaking, keeps setting me back for buying parts for the cb550.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Jun 06, 2019, 12:42:54
I bought a new CB550F1 in 1977. Still have it but it hasn't run in probably 30 yrs. I kinda retired it at 106,000 miles It's a bit quicker than 360 when over 100mph but not much difference to 80 unless 550 gets up around 10K (it's been a bit worked on over the years).82mph in second gear was about 13,500rpm, not too much lived with it back in the day
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jun 06, 2019, 12:48:40
I bought a new CB550F1 in 1977. Still have it but it hasn't run in probably 30 yrs. I kinda retired it at 106,000 miles It's a bit quicker than 360 when over 100mph but not much difference to 80 unless 550 gets up around 10K (it's been a bit worked on over the years).82mph in second gear was about 13,500rpm, not too much lived with it back in the day

I have had two cb550s. One being a 1975 Supersport. Neither of them have as accelerated as quickly as my cb360 (before it self destructed) did, I would assume because the 360 barely weighs anything and had a little bit of a horsepower/torque increase with the larger pistons and your carb rebuild lol

On the current 550 project I am really hoping that Murrays carbs gets together a kit for the 550s. If the engine isn't needing a complete rebuild (new pistons and rings instead of just honing and replacing rings) that would be cool, as 550 pistons are so expensive unless I found an ebay kit that i don't trust.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: crazypj on Jun 06, 2019, 19:37:08
I've got a bunch of NOS CB750 pistons I started modifying for a 591 kit (often sold as 605 mbut it's really 591) No rings, pins or clips though. Will have to make a new piston holder, I sent ther one I made last year with set of pistons I modified. Don't like the way many people just hold piston in lathe chuck andtight enough to hold is tight enough to distort it.. Looked it up. http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=11736.900 (http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=11736.900) reply 935. I don't modify mine to 'Gentleman's Express' specs, never even heard of that when I did my first set. I forgot the specs so had to re-measure things, pics are in there.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jun 18, 2019, 10:39:24
Machine shop is finished up, won't be able to pick up the head until Friday since I work in Murfreesboro and they are in Nashville. Excited to show you guys complete product.
Once it is picked up Friday, it will be a rush home to see if I can get it all back together and running.
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jun 21, 2019, 17:29:13
Everything complete. Gonna try and get it running by tonight!
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: Sonreir on Jun 21, 2019, 17:48:26
Be mindful of your rocker arm angles before you torque everything down. ;)
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jun 21, 2019, 19:27:27
Top end back together. Compression is perfect. Now to time, put manifolds and exhaust then carbs. A little fuel and see what she sounds like. Havenít been riding all season and I miss it
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: pidjones on Jun 21, 2019, 19:48:29
What's that I hear? A sound coming from West of me.... Could it be? Could it be?
Title: Re: Cb360 Reassembly Help
Post by: cb360j on Jun 24, 2019, 15:18:34
Bikes up and running. A little more fine tuning on the carb, again, and all should be good to go! Going to check valves every single ride for a while though lol.

Made a bottom mount headlight bracket with lots of holes in it for speed..... well I didnít make it.... but a laser cut it from .125Ē aluminum and I bent the piece. Have a couple more that I might try if I donít like this one.