A Triumph from the shed (stripped to crank)

Hello!

As if I didnt have enough projects I did a little trade this summer. A guy posted an ad with a 500cc 1962 Triumph Speed Twin - non runner - that he was selling. But he would consider trading it for a CB500 or T500. Since I had a suzuki 1971 T500 in sitting in the bicycle basement of my building and no time to ride it because I ride my XS650 cafe racer, I offered it in a clean deal. And we swapped bikes 8)

I have never owned, ridden or wrenched a British bike... So I knew that I was in for a learning experience!








the good: Compression was ok, the gears shifted, original condition, not too much rust
the bad: the electrics were dead ( the PO who had bought it as his own project but never gotten it to run didnt even know which wire was ground for the battery...) and the clutch stuck, and it had been sitting for a long time. Oh, and all chrome on wheels etc had been painted with "poor man's chrome", hence no rust :-\

First thing I did was redoing almost the whole wiring. Surprisingly easy after I spent many hours making one for the XS. Just got to keep the positive grond in mind Then I had lights and spark.


The carb was in bad shape internally but I cleaned it out as good as I could in the kitchen sink.






And then it fired up on 2nd kick! Sounded pretty healthy too...

Then I opened the primary case and found that 4 of the clutch plates that had stuck together from sitting so long. Took a little force to get them seperated. Then a smear of oil and back in. Adjusted the springs visually to minimize drag, then put the cover on, gave it some oil and adjusted the chain. And took the first test drive.


It ran ok, but didnt advance the ignition so well. Probably also needs a thorough cleaning. I got it through the inspection, got a registration (it was still on UK papers) and was ready for the road. I thought. After a few days of small test runs with different ignition settings, it started to get this metallic ratte from the timing wheels. And oil was pouring out of the cases when the engine got warm... Not so good. Now it was obviuous that I was facing a complete engine teardown. And from what I could read from forums the dreaded sludge trap in the crankshaft was probably part of the problem.

I've know my way around the XS650 twin now but these motors are like most things Britsh: just different. So it took me 4 months to get myself together and buy a set of Whitworth tools plus assorted pullers and extractors necessary to take it apart. And yesterday night I spent an hour outside in -4 C taking the motor out of the frame. But now it's out and I'll let you guys know how it goes when an absolute newbie rebuilds a British twin ;D


snow....


here's the challenge.

Re: A Triumph from the shed

Sounds like you're up for it! 8)

Re: A Triumph from the shed

Sounds like quite a project but it will be worth it when you are done!

Re: A Triumph from the shed

I was in a class in high school were we did a topend rebuild on to nonrunning 1970's Triumph's. One was a Tiger and the other a Boneville. They are cool bikes to work on, hopefully some day all pick up my own to wrench on and rebuild. Good luck with the engine.

Re: A Triumph from the shed (engine teardown phase 1)

So, the project begins.

First step: get the motor to the workhop. Good thing I have a friend with a practical bicycle...

U-Haul, Copenhagen style:


then getting set for the work. I got myself a nice reproduction workshop diagram - to keep motivated


top end came off relatively easy. Only a few stubborn bolts. There was a slight carbon buildup but nothing crazy (sorry for cell phone photos)


the head with brown-colored valves


and finally the part I had been most worried about: the timing gears. That's where the rattle was coming from and it looks like it's the exhaust gear. But why? It didnt make noise from the timing gears to begin with and they looked well lubricated. Anyone has an idea I'm all ears! (would be sad to replace them just to have the same thing happen again)


that's it for now. Wednesday the real fun begins, when I start wrestling the primary drive and maybe even get the cases apart...

Re: A Triumph from the shed (engine teardown phase 1)

Brave individual, doin that stuff in the cold & snow! When I lived in Illinois, I spent many a frigid night doin brake jobs & other shit like that in apartment parking lots. Then I got smart & moved to Arizona. Looking forward to watching your progress on it, once I get some gaskets I'll be starting a build thread on The Norton. The teardown part was done about 20 years ago, but thankfully everything was pretty well bagged & tagged.

Re: A Triumph from the shed (engine teardown phase 1)

I am sure you are aware that you made out like a BANDIT

I hate it when I hear crap like this! Haaha > kidding<

Re: A Triumph from the shed (engine teardown phase 1)

Looks like a great project and a lot of fun. Good luck. Looks like you are up for the task.

Re: A Triumph from the shed (engine teardown phase 1)

I remember doing a starter on my 76 Dodge D100 in the rain. I so far have never been as miserable as then... cold rain running all the way down my arm while trying to wiggle the damned thing in place. That's how I work on my sleds too, -30 out side, cant use gloves to work... outside for 5 min in for 10.

Re: A Triumph from the shed (engine teardown phase 1)

@basement rat: I used to never wear gloves as well (except for welding) but then I found these gloves http://www.jwcgloves.com/maxiflex.html

best fit I have ever tried. you can spin on nuts and pick up a washer from the table - they have a great feel and are resistant to water, oil and all the other things we tend to be soaked in 8)

they really saved me when I spent an hour outside wrenching with tools that were cold as ice!

Re: A Triumph from the shed (engine teardown phase 1)

Youre nuts. I live in Fl and were in a cold snap right now and I can hardly get out in my garage to work on my bike. Good luck with the engine I don't know a damned thing so i can't help. Try a triumph forum if you haven't already. then come back here and let us know what they tell ya. So then we'll know for the next time. Good luck

Re: A Triumph from the shed (engine teardown phase 1)

more engine teardown, including:

Water seeping out of gearbox!
Stupid Whitworth tools!
Damaged threads!

When I loosened the bolts for the gearbox cover, a clear fluid started seeping out. As I removed the bolts it literally poured out! Seems like the oil cap hadnt sealed properly so the rain had free access to the gears. Not so good.



I was also looking for a reason why my timing side was noisy. If you look at the top of this pinion you'll get a hint


And here's the oil from the gearbox


then I got the camshaft pinions off but the crank pinion thread it beat up so the extractor wont screw on...


it's the couple of mm thread right next to the teeth.


I'm a little stuck on that one. I cant use force/"special tools" (hammer) because it sits on the crank... To keep moving I decided to remove the clutch


I also wanted to take the stator and rotor off but the British tools I bought are close to worthless. I got them form a Triumph workshop and they do have the right sizes according to the book but they are too bulky for hard-to-reach bolts... like the stator. :-[

So, next step is to find a place to borrow a set of better tools and get those cases split! Cant wait to see how much sludge is hiding in the crank

Re: A Triumph from the shed (engine teardown phase 1)

If you need something, let me know. This guy will have everything you need.

If you want to calculate shipping, T9M 2C1 Canada

http://dotheton.com/index.php?topic=12511.0

Good Luck!

Re: A Triumph from the shed (engine teardown phase 1)

Looks like somebody pooped in your drip pan! Making some good progress though...

Re: A Triumph from the shed (engine teardown phase 1)

Basement rat said:

If you need something, let me know. This guy will have everything you need.

If you want to calculate shipping, T9M 2C1 Canada

http://dotheton.com/index.php?topic=12511.0

Good Luck!

Click to expand...

Thank you for the tip - that's an amazing collection!

I'll make a list of things I need when I'm done tearing into the motor and start sourcing. So far i'm hangin' out on ebay UK quite a bit

Re: A Triumph from the shed (engine teardown phase 1)

more progress (finally!)

I have had some serious battles with this motor. Most frustratingly, the rotor key in the crankshaft did not want to leave the crankshaft...

here's what we did:



... which only made the key chip, when we pulled it. Then we welded directly onto the key and hit it with a chisel while it was still red hot - and finally it gave up

Such a little thing. So much work

then, to get the cylinder head nuts off I had to adjust my wrench a little:



and then, finally, I could crack the cases apart. next up is the sludge trap nut that has been drenched in loctite and looks like another project...



also removed the gearbox. neat that you can pull it out as one..



and here's the rest of the puzzle:


one piston is damaged, the timing gears are damaged. I dont know about the crank yet but looks like I will have to go shopping. I will see if I can get the crank measured this week.

More pics to follow when I get the crank open!

Keep fighting the good fight. They are very simple engines and very easy to work on once you get used to things. It looks like you are fighting with years of neglect and not British engineering. Keep up the good work.

If you need inspiration you should check the TriumphDayt-owners group on Yahoo. There is a guy on there who is putting one together and doing a photoessay on it. I think it an early 70's so there is a bit of difference but it is excellent work.
Okay I found the link.
http://bullfire.net/Triumph/TOC.html

Hey strange_dk, you didn't give up on this did you?

Nice find and nice bike!

I assume you are going to pull the sludge trap from the crankshaft and clean it and the oilways. You will not believe the crap in there.