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Author Topic: '82 Moto Guzzi v50 Rebuild/Redesign  (Read 56771 times)

Offline zachattach

  • Posts: 87
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Re: '82 Moto Guzzi v50 Rebuild/Redesign
« Reply #160 on: Dec 30, 2016, 00:24:17 »
Cheers Brad,

I actually just took a look at the shop manual you provided a link for.  Completely different than the one I have been using for years, which is presumably for the v50 I given the alternator cover depicted and the reference to points.  It has been easy to work around the subtle difference between the models, but much better to have a III specific manual.  Also very interesting to see the different advance curve referenced therein.

Excuse my ignorance, but what is the the "fly wheel lump" to which you are referring?

Thanks

Offline brad black

  • Posts: 148
Re: '82 Moto Guzzi v50 Rebuild/Redesign
« Reply #161 on: Dec 30, 2016, 04:08:49 »
sorry, i was thinking ducati.  i forget what the ignition rotor looked like now.

Offline zachattach

  • Posts: 87
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Re: '82 Moto Guzzi v50 Rebuild/Redesign
« Reply #162 on: Mar 29, 2018, 21:55:57 »
Posting this to respond to an unusually routed private message I received:

Hi Harris,

In the event my response email doesn't make it back to you:  I am glad you found the thread helpful.

Regarding the starter motor, it really isn't anything special that I purchased.  An ebay search for starter motors for a V50 Guzzi, or whatever it is that you are working with, will turn up numerous possibilities identical to what I purchased.

Hopefully this link simply takes you to such a search: https://www.ebay.com/b/Motorcycle-Starter-Motors-Relays-for-Moto-Guzzi-V50/177959/bn_21310706

If not, here is an example product:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-OEM-STARTER-FITS-BMW-MOTORCYCLE-R60-MOTO-GUZZI-1000-750-0-V35-40-50-65-75/222756615756?fits=Make%3AMoto+Guzzi%7CModel%3AV50+Monza&hash=item33dd54364c:g:l2QAAOSwkrFaYRIM

My main goal was shedding weight, and the new starter definitely accomplished that.  It also really wasn't very expensive.  I don't have great cranking power with it, though.  It barely gets the bike started, and I don't know if that is an issue with the starter, the ground, or some issue with my electrical/wiring system.  I have a hunch it is a ground issue, but I haven't had the chance to sort it out.  I was going to go and add diodes into my electrical system too to ensure I am not pumping current in some funny direction and eating up cranking power.

The shop I purchased the starter from was the source of the commentary that it would have less draw and spin faster.  I can't confirm that.  I can only confirm that it starts the bike (barely) and is much lighter, which is all the more I was hoping to achieve.

In regards to the battery packs I made.  They certainly work, but they are expensive, time consuming, and fragile.  I already need to go in and replace a few of the cells in the packs I believe.  To avoid further expense, when working on the bike I have taken to disconnecting the battery packs and instead connecting an simply lead-acid personal water craft battery, which has a massive amount of power and is quite durable.

Having heard that a 4 cell Li battery pack can get the bike going, purchasing a commercially available one of these would be the easy and simple route.  But, I do like the detail of my custom battery packs.  Whenever I take show someone new the electronics they always initially think I actually worked out the design of the flux capacitor:

As a side note, I also considered using capacitors instead of Li cells, or a pack of each.  The capacitors should be cheaper, more durable, and pack more of a punch if they are being charged regularly.  They may well dissipate charge, though.  I don't really know.  True electrical engineering is unfortunately not a subject I am versed in.

Good luck.  Would be glad to receive pics of your project.

I should be able to get back to mine soon, and I have a post about the ultimate design of the bike that I have been looking forward to writing for awhile.

Also, fun to receive the message from a location a world away.  I am spent some time in Athens and I came away with a most favorable impression of the country and the people.  I can only imagine what Corfu is like.  Looks like a beautiful home for a v50.

-Zach

Offline zachattach

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Re: '82 Moto Guzzi v50 Rebuild/Redesign
« Reply #163 on: Mar 30, 2018, 00:31:42 »
It has been a long time since I have been able to work on this project on the regular, and I think/hope that I am within 6 months of being able to get back to it.

In the time that has elapsed since the project has last been able to be truly active, missing the project has lead me all over the internet in an attempt to live vicariously through others.  I have learned a lot through all of that and I have been really impressed the work being done out there.  There are some people in this forum doing really brilliant work in their home shops, and then there are always the professional types turning out the bikes that show up on BikeEXIF and the like.

Through all of this, I have refined my eye a bit, I believe.  And, while my hand isn't trained up to transfer the ideas collecting in my head onto paper through drawing nor am I proficient in Photoshop or the like, I do know me some PowerPoint, and in an effort to try to explore some of my ideas further, I pushed that software package way past the point of diminishing return to produce the following.

In terms of the fundamental principals governing the ascetics I now hope to achieve, it is my believe that to achieve a visual sense of balance in the design of a cafe racer, the end of the rear seat and any cowl needs to end before the centerline of the rear wheel.

For example, Marcus Walz of Walswerk understands this, and the Guzzi produced by his shop is a shining example of this and most all else holy:

From here: http://www.bikeexif.com/marcus-walz

Conversly, Axel Budde of Kaffeemaschine demonstrates time and again that he does not.  Viz:
 
From here:http://www.bikeexif.com/tag/kaffeemaschine
Further, I don't know how you leave those stock tabs in place at the back end of the frame and still call yourself a pro shop.

Don't believe me that this has significant impact?  Well, look what happens if we shorten up the seat on Axel's daughter's future ride:

See how it all comes together now?  Balance...ahhhh.

The guys over at Autofabrica, who do hands down amongst the best work I have seen, really drive home the point nicely with this "sex machine":

Ugh. So good. From here:https://www.autofabrica.com/type-9

I do note that at times there is a back-swept look achieved with a pair of riser bars and a longer tail that does work, but if the look is to be clip ons, I do think that rear axel to seat or cowl rule is a golden one.

Anyways, Axel isn't the only person to start a Guzzi project without knowing this, and I am guilty of the same.  While I really like the design of my project from most angles (see the prior video of it idling) The straight on side profile of my build has bothered me since taking this picture way back in 2013:

My build and design is breaking this rule and suffering for it. 

Here is a true measure, perhaps even optimistic given the vantage point of the camera, of where the critical meridian lies in relation to the design I have constructed:
\
Errr...fail...

With this in mind, I fired up my copy of MS Office, and set about exploring what the project would look like if I corrected this.  I certainly could have had a better photo for conducting all of this, but I am 1500 mi away from the project, so I had to work with what I had.

For step one I doubled checked to see if simply adding the headlight on could save the balance, and it it helps, but it doesn't save truly save the day:


Accepting this, I began exploring what shorting the rear subframe, although it is really not a subframe, would look like.  There are brackets that attach the the transmission that I had previously shortened, and with these shortened, it leaves a section of pointless hanging frame rail, which has long bothered me.  This exercise provided the perfect opportunity to imagine what the bike would look like if I cut all that out.  So, I explore that here:


Personally I thought that this actually brought about the effect we previously observed with the KaffeMaschines bike, so I worked with it further.

An exact dimensional check is achieved with the following, and I included a specific eye to the impact on the rear suspension (will result in a ~3-5 CM drop on the rear end using the stock shocks):


All seemed to be going well, so I toyed with paint.  Here is a Dale inspire version:

In my humble opinion, not bad and certainly better.

The next matter at hand in my musings was the observation that, well I love many aspects of the current take design, the upswept lines of the tank don't jive with the clip on bar look, and in fact the Monza version of the V50 specifically include a different tank so that it would flow much better with the cafe look.  There is also a side panel that just makes the otherwise elegant tank look cheap below a nice paint job.  For example:

From here: http://thebikeshed.cc/pistonrings-guzzi/

The crappy masking job I am doing in powerpoint hides this issue, but if one is really going to go the distance on one of these (and since I am six years into this, why not?), I think this needs to be addressed.  So, I further played with paint schemes in this version and reimagined the tank:

I found the result pleasing, so I began focusing my explorations on other aspects while continuing to tamper with paint along the way.

Up next was exhaust concepts.

There was the "keep it stock" solution:


And the "keep it a shortened version of stock" solution:

Both a little lack luster in my own opinion.

I really like the look of the mistral-style exhausts (http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=26_105&products_id=2577) such as those used on the Walz Werk bike, so I sampled one of those:

Hazza. And this really pleases my eye.

So, after two years of dreaming of designs for the project that is painfully far away, this design, I think, is really pretty sweet.  And, this is the direction I would like the project to head in when it is time to pick back up.  Actually pulling this off will require me to go much further with fabrication matters than I have gone to date, but I am up for at least trying.

At the moment my idea is to finish a version 1.0 of the current setup and begin tinkering with how it rides while I work on fabricating v2.0.  The latter intended to capture the above design.  Towards these ends, I picked up a second frame for ~$25 on ebay, and it can be the basis of the shortened version.  It is a bit tweaked too (hence the price), so I won't feel to bad having at it.

I am also planning to produce the slash-tip exhaust system that exits just behind the rear sets first because I think there is something to it that is not showing up in power point.  I also think it will be really fun to build.

Anyways, those are the day dreams I am having while I am sitting half a continent away from the project.  Fingers crossed that I can actually get to it.  And, fingers crossed that I can find the super lucky future girlfriend that I envision ultimately owning/riding this bike.  But, if the past 6 years since I started this have taught me anything, it is that all these designs will take their own course and time.

Lastly, I continue to give a nod to Dale's originals (somewhere here: http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=21821.50) as a source of inspiration.

Oh, and frame color TBD.






 

Offline zachattach

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Re: '82 Moto Guzzi v50 Rebuild/Redesign
« Reply #164 on: Mar 30, 2018, 00:41:18 »
Also, I am aware that the floating cans and rear sets in the final design pic are physically impossible.  I haven't figured out how to address that yet.

Offline kagraves

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Re: '82 Moto Guzzi v50 Rebuild/Redesign
« Reply #165 on: Apr 12, 2018, 22:23:57 »
Just stumbled upon this thread and awesome work! I am an industrial designer and fabricator. Sadly i do not have a bike anymore and am itching to get working on one again. I have access to the computer design tools, ie. photoshop, illustrator and a handfull of CAD software that I would be willing to help with if you are so inclined.

Offline zachattach

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Re: '82 Moto Guzzi v50 Rebuild/Redesign
« Reply #166 on: Oct 11, 2018, 00:06:57 »
So, in the past few months I made it back to where the project resides at present.  Managed to get a better shot for playing around with designs.

For the fun of it, here is a concept that expands upon prior designs:

I think I finally got the concept of the shorty slash-tip exhaust looking as good in the mock ups as it does in the pvc model I built.

I also spent a bit of time goofing around frame concepts.  Need to graft those ideas onto this new stock photo.