Which is better (on the track) - NSR 250 or RGV 250?

Hey guys.

Been toying with the idea of entering the 250cc two-stroke classic amateur racing class. I'm meeting up with one of the guys heading up the class at our local track on Saturday morning.

My intention is to have fun, and if I'm any good, well, we can cross that bridge later. The main point is to just get racing. If I'm right at the back of the pack, and chances are that's where I'll be for a while, as I'm not planning on spending big money on hardware. In fact, I'm looking at spending as little as possible. Also, I'm too old to seriously consider a career in racing , and I just want to have fun.

I think I've narrowed my choice down to an early 90's Honda NSR250, or the Suzuki equavalent (RGV 250 VJ22).
Do you know anything about these bikes, and do you have any advice for me? Good choice? Bad choice? A better option I havent thought of?

I hear the RGV's are prone to certain failures in race conditions? Bear in mind - I'm hoping to spend under $2K on a race ready bike. My friend who heads up the class says its not uncommon to come off as much as four times in a day, so I cant be precious about the thing.

Now Ive been searching for a NSR locally, and currently what is available is either 1. Expensive, 2. Trashed, and still too much. The RGV's are more widely available, and prices are all over the place, but a few bikes are priced decently and running.

I've found a 1989 RGV 250, but its a VJ21, that the guy is willing to give me for a *very* good price. Its got a fresh motor, and the frame is perfect. This allows me to spend money on engine mods. The motor will be hotted up using the standard tricks you can do to them. I've got a lot of Suzuki GSX 400 spares which as far as I know will fit this RGV. I've also got some race body kit parts that will fit the Suzuki.


Here's the bike - pretty rough around the edges, but the basics are there.
(I've flipped the image for easier comparison to the real deals below).




Ok, some *real* race bikes for inspiration.

Can you identify the following two Suzuki RGV's for me? What model type, year, etc?





Biaggi's Honda. A better bike than the Suzuki?




And here's the glamour section. Beautiful, raw race bikes styled to perfection, with a heart full of two-stroke.

This is why these bikes have cult status - whoever restored this baby did a great job.



Max Biaggi's NSR 250. Magnificent.



Dale.

Re: Which is better - NSR 250 or RGV 250?

I'm biased, but if you get an RGV, i'll be forever jealous of you. If you read Motorcycle Classics magazine and/or any similar, you'll notice the RGV has had a huge/more recent fan base with plenty of great articles on these bikes. An RGV is one of my dream bikes, that i'd probably be too afraid to ever really take "knee dragging" with.


I vote RGV.

Re: Which is better - NSR 250 or RGV 250?

All gorgeous bikes, including the one youre thinking about buying.

I honestly dont know much about either bike, outside of the fact that Id kill to own one!

If cost is an issue though, any thoughts on vintage racing? A nice RD250/350 would be much cheaper to buy/build. For well under 3k you could build a nice racer.

TZ race rep built from a '75 RD350.

Re: Which is better - NSR 250 or RGV 250?

Between the NSR street bike and RGV street bike it's a no brainer - get the Suzuki. There are more of them around a lot more parts and pool of knowledge.

RGV's drop the powervalves when pins wear, so strip them out regularly to see what's going on. Replacements are available for Europe I think but I can't remember all the details. In theory you need a race kit ignition system and they are rarer than rocking horse manure.

If the motor has to come apart, clean up the ports in the crankcase - they tend to have bad changes in section and casting flash. match barrel heights and squish from one side to the other and they can stand more compression than stock so cc the heads in case they are already machined.

Spend time to adjust the power valve steps and check the results on a dyno. Always use a good well lubed chain. Old chains cost HP. Check the oil tank for molding flash too. Partial blockage in a feed line will cost you a complete motor.

Can you run an RS250 or TZ in that class? They are both much faster - even old ones but the really old ones are much slower around a race track unless you are an expert rider.

BTW, love the reversed graphics...Who flipped the picture?

Re: Which is better - NSR 250 or RGV 250?

Sounds like you're trying to be competitive and possibly get serious about racing, I would vote against the vintage thing. While you will have a blast and pick up some racing skills, a floppy old rd suspension is a different skill set than a from the factory "modern" GP bike.

I think theNSR and RGV are both pretty equal, both have their share of championships under their belts. I would do some research on availability/ cost of spares: Racing is expen$ive and requires constant replacements/ rebuilds, especially an exotic two-stroke.

I personally think a 600cc four stroke bike would be a better entry level choice than a 250cc GP bike because of the cost/ availability of parts thing, pretty much the same buy in cost for a used racer, but I don't blame you one bit for going forth with an rgv, nsr, or even a tzr, the fun factor of an ultralight bike with a kick in the pants powerband is probably hard to beat!

Which is better - NSR 250 or RGV 250?

I had a rothmans nsr250 when I was 17, fastest vehicle at my school, haha. I'm lucky to still be here I think.

Re: Which is better - NSR 250 or RGV 250?

• Hey there, apologies for the late response. I don’t have regular internet access at the moment.
  
  Chimera, , well I hope to make you jealous then! Definitely plan on some knee dragging!
  
  Von - that’s a cool idea, and I love those older Tz's! But I want to enter this class because it’s so well organized, and there are plenty of guys doing it. Very well supported. The bike I've found is ok mechanically - certainly not competitive as is, but the guy is willing to let it go for a 1K. So it’s relatively affordable as well.
  
  teazer - thanks for the good info. yes, I'd heard about the powervalve issue with these bikes, and that is basically my biggest fear with regards maintenance. I believe the Honda is much more robust, and as a result easier to live with.
  
  Thanks for all the advice on that - makes me feel a bit more comfortable with the RGV choice.
  
  TZ's and RS's certainly are allowed, and both are options. The Aprilia definitely comes with a price premium though.
  
  At first I thought the RS was just a RGV with an Armani suit, but my buddy Rhett, who owns one reckons it’s a much better bike, as the frame etc is on a different level completely. I actually rode his RS250 last weekend. Tucked in and slight downhill, I hit just on 200 Km/h. (125 mp/h) at one point. I haven’t had more fun on a bike. Its super light, handles like a dream and the powerband is subliminal.
  
  crush, the two strokes are easy to work on and the parts are relatively cheap. The tech allows regular garage guys like myself to mess around with them quite easily. Personally I find the 600's (which are very good) kinda boring, very predictable and linear. That’s just me! Also, the 600 class is much more pro, whereas this 250cc two-stroke class has a lot of
  
  
• amateur guys having fun.
  
  julian5000, that’s a sweet ride man. Seen a bunch of them while researching this...
  
  Thanks again guys for your feedback!

Re: Which is better - NSR 250 or RGV 250?

Sounds like you've done your research, I wish you success and traction, except when you intend to break it! $1k is a great buy in for that bike. I am jellyous!

Don't know why I assumed you were in the states, my mistake! 2-strokes are pricey here.

Re: Which is better - NSR 250 or RGV 250?

RACE DAY PICS

Was at regional races on Saturday at Kyalami Race Track.

Not a single RGV. Spoke to the guys there. The Pin that holds the power valves fail, and the power valve hits the piston head, essentially destroying a lot of internals. General consensus is that it’s not a matter of "if" but "when". A titanium pin set is available for around $850.00, and still isn't fail safe.

So I’m looking at an Honda NSR.

Interestingly, the 400 four-strokes are now going to be combined with the 250 two-stroke class. So a VFR400 is an option. Not sure how competitive they actually are compared to the 250's, but you do have the convenience of a four-stroke. The two-strokes require jetting setup from one day to the next and one track to the next.

I'm looking at an NSR, as well as an VFR now. There is something about the two stroke bike that I love, but living with a four stroke is always easier...


PITS ON SATURDAY



HONDA NSR 250













And some more Aprilia beauty queens off the internet...

Re: Which is better - NSR 250 or RGV 250? **RACE DAY PICS**

Well I think I found my bike today. Its one of a guy's spare race bikes. He has 3.
Well, he's about to have 2 if everything goes according to plan.

Its a 1993 MC21 NSR 250 SE (Super Edition).


- Its De-restricted.
- Racing exhaust system fitted.
- Currently pushes out around 60bhp according to the guy
- Weighs in at around 140kg *Wet*
- Fully adjustable Showa forks
- Fully adjustable Ohlins shock
- Steering damper, but he may take it off.
- Pirelli Diablo Corsa tires have one race on them, and are good for another 2.
- Braided hoses
- etc


Included in the price, the motor is going in for fresh pistons and rings.










Going to need about 20 main jets according to the guy.
Awesome!

<<<<JEALOUS ; )

4eyes said:

<<<<JEALOUS ; )

Click to expand...

Yeah. Well don't be too jealous. >

- Tires, fuel and race fees for the year on this bike are around $5K.
- Fixing parts due to crashes and blown motors are another expense.
- I don't have one piece leathers, and that is a requirement at some tracks.

Well. I decided to get the NSR250. It will have a full mechanical check and top end rebuild early next month. The owner agreed to do this, so will hopefully be getting the bike by mid May. Running the new motor in is around 30 laps, so that should be fun.

Well, seeing as the bike is basically going to be mechanically sound, I cant resist a bit of blinging up, and I've been thinking about cleaning up the bike in general, polishing a few aluminium parts, and then painting up the body kit myself.

These are some possibilities:

(love this one)

I love the Shell scheme, dude.

Congrats to you, sir. Enjoy the track.

Thanks man.

Yeah, that Shell theme is cool huh?

Been wanting to do this for probably on 5 years now, so really looking forward to it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdP1KmW-CdU&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Just a quick follow up.

I ended up rebuilding the bike in August, and its seen two track days in this state so far.
Its pretty quick, and handles very well.
The NSR motors are super strong, and its good fun all round.

Dale