Down under, an idiot and a 400F

Personally, I think so, your monitoring the oil going to mains and big ends
It will probably be around 130~150 C when running

Not too much to report at the moment as I am saving the pennies to have the whole motor vapour blasted. I've bought a replacement oil gallery bolt which (fingers crossed) works as a replacement for the one with the damaged head (where I've tapped it for the oil temp gauge):





I checked the other gallery plugs (one on front and one behind stator) and they unscrew or pull out fine, hopefully there aren't any other hidden or ones I've missed.

I have yet to pull all the rocker arms ready for blasting but will have to do that soon as the motor goes in for its makeover on the 12th Oct (and it needs to be completely stripped). Whilst I am getting the whole motor blasted I suspect I may paint the barrels and head fins black and look to polish the edge of the fins as I absolutely love the look.

Can't wait to get it back.

I can't remember if there is an oil jet for transmission feed or if it's just a drilling to restrict flow?
It will be on left side lower case half.
Pretty sure that's the only thing left on oil feed when gallery plugs are removed

Given I'm only a few days away from getting the motor blasted I thought I would direct my attention to parts/work required to rebuild the internals.

Currently I have:
1. New DID cam chain
2. Cam chain slider rubber ends

I also have reconditioned a cam slider mechanism and have some good sliders although I may look at getting a new tensioner blade as the ones I have here are showing wear. I have 2 primary chains so was going to reuse one of them. I am also in 2 minds as to which cam and big end bearings I am going to replace. I was going to do all of them, but only 2 show any signs of wear so I think that may be a little over the top.

Checking out David Silver Spares and eBay I was going to order the following, does anyone have any inputs on this (eg quality, if it's necessary?):

1. Vesrah engine gasket kit (eBay)
2. Engine oil kit (DSS http://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/CB400F-SUPER-SPORT-FOUR/part_28468/)
3. Select cam bearings (DSS)
4. Select big end bearings (DSS)
5. Cam chain tensioner blade
6. Clutch kit

I am not sure which things are not included in the kits for 1 & 2. Eg would I need to buy any other seals or o-rings (like oil control valves?)

Looking to get most of what I need from DSS to bundle it all together into 1 order.

Between the gasket set and oil seal set you should have everything you need
400F doesn't have replaceable cam bearings, do you mean main bearings for crank?

crazypj said:

Between the gasket set and oil seal set you should have everything you need
400F doesn't have replaceable cam bearings, do you mean main bearings for crank?

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Oops, yeah I meant crank bearings. What about the oil pump o-rings, would they come in the kit too or would I need to source some of those too.

Want to replace all the consumable parts.

Read up on crank bearings for they are colour coded from the factory indicating slightly different sizes. Be sure you are replacing them wit the correct ones.

swan said:

Read up on crank bearings for they are colour coded from the factory indicating slightly different sizes. Be sure you are replacing them wit the correct ones.

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Yeah, noted that. DSS have brown, yellow, black, green. I assume I put the old bearings in, plastigauge them against the crank, if they are in spec but with slight wear marks I buy the same colour, if not I buy the right one to bring the clearance back to spec?

My bearings didn't have any colour left on them, can you use the codes on them to identify them? To be honest the Haines manual I have isn't easily understood when it comes to the bearing shells.

There is page and chart in the Honda Service manual for fitting and measuring the correct crankshaft bearings. I think (?) it is in the Haynes manual too? Anyways I can send you a copy in a couple of days when I am back home if you still need it.

In preparation for getting the motor back from vapour blasting I am turning my attention to the insides, making sure I can get everything together I need to button the motor up. I have a shopping list together including:

1. New DID cam chain
2. Cam chain slider damper rubbers
3. Vesrah engine gasket kit
4. Engine oil seal kit
5. Cam chain tensioner blade
6. Clutch kit

I am thinking I may need to replace all my bearings too so turned my attention to them this evening so I could work out what state they were in and also what replacements I would need.

First up I assume these letters stamped on the cases identify the bearing locations and what their starting dimensions are (BBBBC)?



Looking at my Haynes manual here are the 400F crank and big end bearing specifics:



I am assuming the letters on the case are the crankcase allowance, however I'm going to need some help working this out.

I made a note of each bearing when I took it out of the motor so I could put them back in where they should go:



However on inspection of the bearings it doesn't look like they are in great shape. Not sure if they got this way in the ziplock bag or if they were like this when I took them out of the motor. Some bearings are scuffed and most have what looks like pitting on them:







Doesn't appear like the crank is damaged at all:







I suspect these are beyond service levels which means I need 10 crank bearings and some if not all big end bearings too. This is looking like it's going to be a brand new motor when I'm finished!

Also checked one of the big ends while I was checking the crank and whilst the wear appears uniform there are also the pits at the far ends, I'm going to need some help identifying whether these also need replacing:





Looks like the motor could suck up a bit of cash.

Here is what I have out of the Honda manual... if it helps

Not too bad, that's probably from using the wrong oil, when it's too thick you can get cavitation in the bearings which etches the surface when the 'vacuum bubble' implodes
The rod you can see number on is 2 and crank number is 2 so just follow the lines.
Same with the main bearings, case code is B B B B C and crank looks like 2 B (or not 2 B, that is the question ;D )
I'm not sure that chart is correct, if you have 5 letters and 4 numbers you just swap A for 1
'We' almost always ended up with brown and black bearing shells to get correct clearances, I've never used (or even seen) a 'blue' code bearing

Thanks PJ. Funny but there were 2 rods on the cam with 2 on them, didn't check the others. Is this normal? Writing was across both halves on 1 side only.

Is it wise to replace all the bearings given I'm at this point or are some serviceable?

Neevo,

"I suspect these are beyond service levels which means I need 10 crank bearings and some if not all big end bearings too. This is looking like it's going to be a brand new motor when I'm finished!"

- don't be tempted to replace part of the big end set .................false economy when the motor is stripped this far !!!

Yeah that's a fair call. Can I reuse the big end bolts and nuts with some Loctite?

Rod bolts are re-useable without any problems.
Use a good magnifier to check threads though for damage or distortion (if motor hasn't been apart before everything will be fine)
It's completely normal to have rods numbered across the join, makes it easier to see if the pairing is correct
Because of the locating tab on bearing shell, the rod only fits on crank one direction
You don't use Loctite on big end bolts, I forget why

At the torque value they are set at LocTite won't do much.

crazypj said:

Because of the locating tab on bearing shell, the rod only fits on crank one direction

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How do I know which direction is correct, I would have thought they could have gone one the crank any way.

crazypj said:

Rod bolts are re-useable without any problems.
Use a good magnifier to check threads though for damage or distortion (if motor hasn't been apart before everything will be fine)
It's completely normal to have rods numbered across the join, makes it easier to see if the pairing is correct
Because of the locating tab on bearing shell, the rod only fits on crank one direction
You don't use Loctite on big end bolts, I forget why

Click to expand...

I'm going to show my ignorance here, but isn't the bearing round and thus can be turned around on the crank journal. I know the bearings may only fit one way in the rod because of the locking tab, but on the crank?

I used to know the reasoning but I forget stuff I haven't needed to use for a few years.
It has to do with thrust loadings and con-rod angularity
It's 'easier' to spin bearings if rods are on backwards, instructions should be in service manual
In the pic you can see end cap has been 'flipped', on the rod there is a witness mark where tab was sitting