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Author Topic: The Amalgam: honda past meets present, take 2! or 3?  (Read 28247 times)

Offline jag767

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Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build
« Reply #50 on: Jun 08, 2016, 14:56:44 »
Is one the racing version?

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The guy I'm talking to mentioned nothing about either being for racing. Waiting for prices

Offline Tune-A-Fish©

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Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build
« Reply #51 on: Jun 08, 2016, 15:18:02 »
Well... the nice thing is if we can nail it for a 450, we get most of the other Honda twins for free. :)

What about an inverter generator just enough to run the ecu and charge a separate battery 
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Offline Tune-A-Fish©

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Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build
« Reply #52 on: Jun 08, 2016, 15:19:41 »
Also modern dirtbikes (450's) run efi... what do they use for power
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Offline Sonreir

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Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build
« Reply #53 on: Jun 08, 2016, 15:23:41 »
Also modern dirtbikes (450's) run efi... what do they use for power

Stronger alternators than what the CB450 originally came with.

CB450 is good for about 110W-130W while the new XR650L is about 190W.
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Offline Tune-A-Fish©

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Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build
« Reply #54 on: Jun 08, 2016, 15:30:14 »
Stronger alternators than what the CB450 originally came with.

CB450 is good for about 110W-130W while the new XR650L is about 190W.

So a welder and a machinist could retrofit the mechanics for the crank then the electronics are plug and play no?

All the players are here: but a tall order for $

 http://www.hondarestoration.com/for_sale_motoqs.asp?md=Electrical%20Components&p=Motorcycle%20Parts&c=179853&k=CRF450&pn=3
« Last Edit: Jun 08, 2016, 15:39:50 by Tune-A-Fish »
"I didn't come here and I ain't leavin"  Willie Nelson

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Offline Sonreir

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Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build
« Reply #55 on: Jun 08, 2016, 15:32:47 »
So a welder and a machinist could retrofit the mechanics for the crank then the electronics are plug and play no?


More or less, yup. :)

Adapting an EFI setup from one bike to another isn't super simple, though. It's like pulling the carbs from one bike and putting them on another and expecting it to work out of the box. Depending on the system, things can be tweaked, however.
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Offline Sonreir

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Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build
« Reply #56 on: Jun 08, 2016, 15:36:38 »
That said, I'd be willing to bet than with a good O2 sensor, bikes with similar displacement and redlines would work once they were warmed up. They might run a little rough on idle, though.

EFI electronics usually only kick in after the engine is warm. They're running from pre-programmed values until that point. Running from sensors is called "closed loop operation" and running from pre-programmed maps is called "open loop operation". In reality, motorcycles tend to run a bit more in open loop (even when warmed up) since running variables (load, rpms, etc) change a lot more quickly than they do in cars.
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Offline jag767

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Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build
« Reply #57 on: Jun 08, 2016, 16:04:54 »
That said, I'd be willing to bet than with a good O2 sensor, bikes with similar displacement and redlines would work once they were warmed up. They might run a little rough on idle, though.

EFI electronics usually only kick in after the engine is warm. They're running from pre-programmed values until that point. Running from sensors is called "closed loop operation" and running from pre-programmed maps is called "open loop operation". In reality, motorcycles tend to run a bit more in open loop (even when warmed up) since running variables (load, rpms, etc) change a lot more quickly than they do in cars.

Hey! Now we're talking about things I know! Ideally, with the right data logging it would be possible to find exactly where to tweak the maps to keep the ratio in the sweet spot.  Now if I stick with the electronics from the cb500x, I can plug in the Power commander, and their auto tune setup that comes with its own 02 sensor. From what I understand it takes the guess work out of tuning. As far and charging, I'm leaning towards the 180 watt setup, and using the pamco ignition. I'm not sure what the power needed for the components is, but I'm thinking this is my best shot. I'm guessing I am in the ballpark.

After a call with Rick yesterday (who thinks I'm nuts to be fuel injecting a 450 btw) apparently the greatest limiting factor in the twins is the magnets in the rotors. He said he could make a 3 phase setup, but it'd be useless without making a new rotor. He also looked at the power dynamo units and felt that should give a nice bump in charging.

I also have some questions in to Ecotrons and microsquirt, figured a backup is a nice idea.

Offline clem

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Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build
« Reply #58 on: Jun 08, 2016, 16:42:05 »
I can tell you that I have run my DS7 with the power dynamo and no battery and the lights and blinkers all worked fine. For me the simplicity of the install, setting timing and no worries is worth the money over some other options available. Zeel makes a programming box to set curves on the PD ignition also.
There was another thread on 2strokeworld where a guy purchased the ecotrons setup but I don't think that he followed through with all of the posts to a completed product. This is definitely interesting though.

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Offline jag767

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Re: Fuel injected Cb450 build
« Reply #59 on: Jun 09, 2016, 05:45:54 »
Alright got pricing. 290 euros for the 180 watt no ignition, 450 euros for the 150 watts with ignition. I think I am going to do the 180 watt and the pamco ignition, just want to make sure I can get the pamco to work in my setup. Also, I put the throttle bodies up to the head to see what kind of manifold I'm going to need to make them fit. This is going to be a bitch, need someone who is aces with aluminum tube to weld something up for me. I think I can make the pieces just fine, will buy some aluminum tube, and flat material and will cut all the pieces, but I can't weld aluminum for shit  ::)
« Last Edit: Jun 09, 2016, 05:54:46 by jag767 »