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Author Topic: My first build - 75 Honda CL360 Scrambler  (Read 22416 times)

Offline crazypj

  • Posts: 13178
  • Split personality, I fake being smart
Re: My first build - 75 Honda CL360 Scrambler
« Reply #140 on: May 09, 2018, 19:47:32 »
Sound (pressure) waves move at the speed of sound and that varies with temperature of the gas it's traveling through.  The gas itself moves way slower.  Large pipes hurt gas velocity and disrupt harmonics.

Long pipes restrict flow and gas velocity, but with pipes that are way larger than ideal, that is not an issue. In fact it helps considerably.  Exhaust harmonics are generally well understood by exhaust manufacturers but there's a lot of incorrect info out there.  In theory, you want the wave to travel down the pipe and be reversed at the open end and to reach the head as both valves are open to pull burned gas out of the head and to pull fresh mixture in.  Then that wave travels back down the pipe and this time it is reflected as a positive (stuffing) wave which should be timed to arrive just before the exhaust valve closes. 

In practice that is just not really an available option, so exhaust designers start to look at timing of second and 4th and 6th harmonics as the waves go back up and down the pipe.  For us mere mortals, it's possible to get a copy of articles by David Vizard on exhaust design or refer to the book by AG Bell or even better look at some of the more technical publications for inspiration.

And for the rest of us, think of exhausts as short and large let the motor rev but with no guts - just empty noise. Longer smaller diameter pipes tend to sound better and to add torque which is the ability of an engine to do work i.e. to get our sorry asses into motion. That's a gross oversimplification, but close enough.

Long works better.  Short looks sharper but doesn't work or sound as good on the road.

I kinda knew someone would comment on that but couln't think of any other way to keep things short and 'simple'  ;)
If your building it to ride you will get fed up with various issues and end up re-building various parts to get better 'drivability'
If you only intend to ride it until you can sell it, it's then someone elses problem but it would be better for any reputation your trying to build to do it right whatever your going to do with it
 
« Last Edit: May 09, 2018, 19:53:50 by crazypj »
'you can take my word for it or argue until you find out I'm right'
Best thing I ever overheard
"yep, PJ's my boss, he taught me everything I know, just didn't teach me everything he knows"
Brian Morgan, 1982

CB360's,  http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=11736.0
XS650,  http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=11922.0

Offline trek97

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Re: My first build - 75 Honda CL360 Scrambler
« Reply #141 on: May 09, 2018, 20:13:33 »
Essentially, you need the length of pipe to scavenge the exhaust.  Running shorty's or more open pipes take away most of the performance from the bottom 3/4 of the throttle range, but it's possible to gain on the top end if you can jet it right.  If you're running non-stock carbs, you'll probably be able to more performance through jetting with any set of pipes.  There isn't enough adjustment in a set of stock carbs to find peak performance.

+1. The most reliablity I can get out of stock and modified Kiehins is 10-12 to 1 air fuel ratio.  I "believe" it could be made to perform better and still be a reliable runner at (12-14 to 1) if a better selection of needles were available.

If I jet mine up to run in the the 12-14 to 1 range w the needles I have.  it will die on decel due to running too lean overall throughout primary and pilot jetting range.

If jetted to richen up pilot AND OR primary to prevent dying on decel, then its too rich approx 3500rpm when the slide starts to rise.   

You cant jet your way around the necessity for needle change.  longer shaft w a shorter more aggressive taper would be the cats pajamas for Kiehins.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2018, 20:19:14 by trek97 »

Offline crazypj

  • Posts: 13178
  • Split personality, I fake being smart
Re: My first build - 75 Honda CL360 Scrambler
« Reply #142 on: May 09, 2018, 22:19:53 »
Is that with stock or modified carbs?
'you can take my word for it or argue until you find out I'm right'
Best thing I ever overheard
"yep, PJ's my boss, he taught me everything I know, just didn't teach me everything he knows"
Brian Morgan, 1982

CB360's,  http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=11736.0
XS650,  http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=11922.0

Offline ridesolo

  • Posts: 1178
  • "Illegitimi non carborundum"
Re: My first build - 75 Honda CL360 Scrambler
« Reply #143 on: May 09, 2018, 23:21:57 »
Your photo doesn't seem to work for me. Are the EMGO shorty mufflers the shortest ones you could find? They're 12"? 

OK, sorry... I moved the pix hosting from Photobucket to hosting here on DTT you should be able to see it now.

Anyway, as for comments on the length, yes, I'd like to have them longer and I may switch to longer mufflers that turn down.  A long-term goal is to do up a custom system for it that goes down and under the engine, side by side and then turn out and then up right behind the rear sets at around a 45 degree (or so) angle and then go into mufflers that end at or beyond the axle.
“Fight on and fly on to the last drop of blood and the last drop of fuel, to the last beat of the heart.”
— Baron Manfred von Richthofen

Please check out:  http://www.VetTix.org

These are on a low simmer out in the shop:
'75 Honda CL360: http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=56547.0
'70 Rupp Roadster: http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=67459.0

Online MiniatureNinja

  • Posts: 470
Re: My first build - 75 Honda CL360 Scrambler
« Reply #144 on: May 10, 2018, 13:46:46 »
OK, sorry... I moved the pix hosting from Photobucket to hosting here on DTT you should be able to see it now.

Anyway, as for comments on the length, yes, I'd like to have them longer and I may switch to longer mufflers that turn down.  A long-term goal is to do up a custom system for it that goes down and under the engine, side by side and then turn out and then up right behind the rear sets at around a 45 degree (or so) angle and then go into mufflers that end at or beyond the axle.

This is exactly what I plan to do with mine, but not very "scrambler"
'75 Honda CB360 - thread

Offline djsmiles

  • Posts: 180
Re: My first build - 75 Honda CL360 Scrambler
« Reply #145 on: May 10, 2018, 19:25:52 »
PJ, this is my bike forever. It shares my birth year so how could I sell it? I was in a pretty bad accident about 23 years ago and haven't ridden since. I'm scared of these machines. I just want a bike to get around town, drive to work, practice getting my balls back. I'm sure I'll make changes to this one and probably  get another bike for the highway someday.


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Offline crazypj

  • Posts: 13178
  • Split personality, I fake being smart
Re: My first build - 75 Honda CL360 Scrambler
« Reply #146 on: May 10, 2018, 21:41:28 »
Good to hear your getting back on bike .
360's are a load of fun and will cope with highway speeds  but it is easier to just get something more modern if your using bike daily or 'long distance' commute (more than about 30 miles each way )
Even 1200's get tired pretty quick doing 150~200 miles a day 'commuting' (had a few students at MMI who racked up crazy mileage)
'you can take my word for it or argue until you find out I'm right'
Best thing I ever overheard
"yep, PJ's my boss, he taught me everything I know, just didn't teach me everything he knows"
Brian Morgan, 1982

CB360's,  http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=11736.0
XS650,  http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=11922.0

Offline djsmiles

  • Posts: 180
Re: My first build - 75 Honda CL360 Scrambler
« Reply #147 on: Jun 17, 2018, 17:09:17 »
Ok so I got the wiring in a pretty good place, as far as I can test right now everything is working correctly except for the starter. This is my 2nd starter (got it on eBay, seller said it was tested and guaranteed) because I thought the first one was bad. When I hit the start button the starter spins, it makes a whirring sound but doesn't engage the engine. Actually it did once, I heard one turn and a pop from the open exhaust ports. I have the 8 cell Antigravity battery and just fully charged it. I shorted the starter solenoid by putting a screwdriver across the terminals and get the same result.
Any suggestions as to what to look for next?

Offline trek97

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Re: My first build - 75 Honda CL360 Scrambler
« Reply #148 on: Jun 17, 2018, 17:51:50 »
Easiest...If your close to Autzone.  IDK they can do this.  But they may be able to load test it.

If its bad rebuild it.

If the starter checks good.

You pull the entire right cover off and ensure the crankshaft starter clutch sprocket is working properly.

It freewheels smoothly one direction then locks up instantly tight to the crankshaft in the opposite direction.

« Last Edit: Jun 17, 2018, 17:55:27 by trek97 »

Offline djsmiles

  • Posts: 180
Re: My first build - 75 Honda CL360 Scrambler
« Reply #149 on: Jun 27, 2018, 19:36:34 »
I've called around and no one knows how to test a motorcycle starter. I took the cover off and the starter spins the chain fine but there's no resistance. It spins counter clockwise


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