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Author Topic: FRANKENHONDA II the 1982 DOHC CB 750F2 Build  (Read 81906 times)

Offline cb250nproject

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Re: FRANKENHONDA II the 1982 DOHC CB 750F2 Build
« Reply #780 on: Jul 08, 2019, 03:38:26 »
Right so Im looking at the ricks Motorsport reg /rec and the wiring if different to the cycle x one I had which is pictured first. It has 3 yellow which got to the rotor stator and a red and a black which go to the battery.

My new reg/rec has 3 yellow , 2 black, 1 white , 1 green and 1 white with a red stripe on it. My wiring is all new using the m unit so Im not really sure where these additional wires should go.

Any auto elec in the house ??
first cafe build was an incomplete learning experience, more of a test run for the real thing FRANKENHONDA II

Offline Sonreir

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Re: FRANKENHONDA II the 1982 DOHC CB 750F2 Build
« Reply #781 on: Jul 08, 2019, 11:26:16 »
For sure.

All of the colors should match up to the stock setup.

Red/white -> Battery positive terminal
Green -> Ground
Black (in connector) -> Switched power. Needs 12V when ignition switch on and no power when ignition switch off
Yellow x3 -> Alternator (color should match)
Loose black -> Alternator (color should match)
White -> Alternator (color should match)
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Offline cb250nproject

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FRANKENHONDA II the 1982 DOHC CB 750F2 Build
« Reply #782 on: Jul 08, 2019, 19:14:44 »
For sure.

All of the colors should match up to the stock setup.

Red/white -> Battery positive terminal
Green -> Ground
Black (in connector) -> Switched power. Needs 12V when ignition switch on and no power when ignition switch off
Yellow x3 -> Alternator (color should match)
Loose black -> Alternator (color should match)
White -> Alternator (color should match)
Hey Sonreir

Unfortunately there is nothing stock in my wiring loom its all new, Im running a m-unit, m-lock, dyna ignition and cycle x charging system

Im not sure if I can omit using the redundant wires and still have the reg / rec work properly

I sent an email to Rick at Rick Motorsport last night, but I think I may have purchased the wrong one based on my set up.

Unfortunately Im electrically challenged


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« Last Edit: Jul 08, 2019, 19:18:42 by cb250nproject »
first cafe build was an incomplete learning experience, more of a test run for the real thing FRANKENHONDA II

Offline teazer

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Re: FRANKENHONDA II the 1982 DOHC CB 750F2 Build
« Reply #783 on: Jul 08, 2019, 19:32:43 »
Aha!  A Lucas alternator.  That explains everything.  All jokes aside, it's why the R/R must be matched to that alternator.   Can Cycle X provide a wiring diagram and even better a system diagram or at least can they provide a matching Regulator and rectifier?

Rex's speed shop shows a bunch of them for RM21 stator.  https://www.rexs-speedshop.com/product-category/classic-bikes/rectifiers-voltage-control/


Matt (sonrier) at Sparck probably has something suitable.
« Last Edit: Jul 08, 2019, 19:35:43 by teazer »

Offline cb250nproject

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Re: FRANKENHONDA II the 1982 DOHC CB 750F2 Build
« Reply #784 on: Jul 08, 2019, 19:40:15 »
Hey Teazer

Cycle x provided the matching Reg /rec pictured first, but it was later on that they noted "not compatible with lithium ion batteries". This is what prompted me to purchase the Ricks Motorsport one that was lithium ion compatible. At the time of purchase I didn't even think about the different charging system etc (my own fault).

Does anyone here run a normal reg / rec with a lithium ion battery without issue ?? The whole reason I upgraded all the electrics and especially the charging system was to be able to safely run a lithium ion battery. 
first cafe build was an incomplete learning experience, more of a test run for the real thing FRANKENHONDA II

Offline teazer

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Re: FRANKENHONDA II the 1982 DOHC CB 750F2 Build
« Reply #785 on: Jul 08, 2019, 21:13:25 »
I don't know enough about the voltage output of that alternator and available Regulators to make an educated guess as to whether they would be suitable for a LiPo battery.  I have used that alternator with Zener diode years ago but that was before anyone invented LiPo batteries.

The ones I looked at on Rex's Speed shop talk about being suitable for AGM and they mention peak voltage of 14.7.  I thought that LiPo were safe up to 14.5 vols but not above that, so maybe not.

http://www.sparckmoto.com/Products/Detail/7  suggests that it will work with your stator and is OK with Lithium batteries, but contact Sonrier to be sure.  Also check that yours is an RM18 or RM21 or whatever it is to be sure that it's single phase.

Looks like one of the others is for electromagnet type and one for permanent magnet.  Beyond that I am getting perilously close to the edge of my knowledge.
« Last Edit: Jul 08, 2019, 21:16:09 by teazer »

Offline cb250nproject

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Re: FRANKENHONDA II the 1982 DOHC CB 750F2 Build
« Reply #786 on: Jul 08, 2019, 23:12:32 »
So this is the reg /rec box so the alternator is a permanent magnet alternator


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first cafe build was an incomplete learning experience, more of a test run for the real thing FRANKENHONDA II

Offline teazer

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Re: FRANKENHONDA II the 1982 DOHC CB 750F2 Build
« Reply #787 on: Jul 09, 2019, 02:08:46 »
As the old saying goes - I know just enough to be dangerous, so let's go slowly and please check my work with someone who knows what they are talking about.

OK so that Podtronics reg/Rect is for the 3 phase stator.  How many wires does your stator have and what color are they?  The Cycle-X site says their stator is 16 amp three phase, so in theory the Podtronics R/R and Stator are a perfect match for each other. 

The question we couldn't answer was what maximum voltage does that set up generate.  And maybe all you have to do is to hook it up with an AGM or wet cell first and run the motor to measure voltage at say 4500 revs and see if it's too high or OK for Lithium.

Next question - which is where we came in - how to hook it all up.

The Ricks looks like it works on an OEm electro magnet system and Lucas/Cycle-x Podtronics is indeed permanent magnet, so those are not compatible.

After connecting the stator to the 5 wire R/R, I would expect there to be two wires left over, red to the battery feed and probably black or maybe green to ground (earth).

What wires are on the stator and what on the R/R?  Both should have three yellow leads to connect to each other. And there should be a Red +12v and black ground on the r/r. 

On the stock wiring harness you should have two wires that used to go from the stock OEM r/r to the oem field coils (electro magnet).  In theory they are no longer connected to anything, but check your FSM wiring diagram.  That appears to be why the NEW R?R has extra wires that will not work with your alternator. 
« Last Edit: Jul 09, 2019, 02:20:35 by teazer »

Offline cb250nproject

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FRANKENHONDA II the 1982 DOHC CB 750F2 Build
« Reply #788 on: Jul 09, 2019, 04:28:07 »
As the old saying goes - I know just enough to be dangerous, so let's go slowly and please check my work with someone who knows what they are talking about.

OK so that Podtronics reg/Rect is for the 3 phase stator.  How many wires does your stator have and what color are they?  The Cycle-X site says their stator is 16 amp three phase, so in theory the Podtronics R/R and Stator are a perfect match for each other. 

The question we couldn't answer was what maximum voltage does that set up generate.  And maybe all you have to do is to hook it up with an AGM or wet cell first and run the motor to measure voltage at say 4500 revs and see if it's too high or OK for Lithium.

Next question - which is where we came in - how to hook it all up.

The Ricks looks like it works on an OEm electro magnet system and Lucas/Cycle-x Podtronics is indeed permanent magnet, so those are not compatible.

After connecting the stator to the 5 wire R/R, I would expect there to be two wires left over, red to the battery feed and probably black or maybe green to ground (earth).

What wires are on the stator and what on the R/R?  Both should have three yellow leads to connect to each other. And there should be a Red +12v and black ground on the r/r. 

On the stock wiring harness you should have two wires that used to go from the stock OEM r/r to the oem field coils (electro magnet).  In theory they are no longer connected to anything, but check your FSM wiring diagram.  That appears to be why the NEW R?R has extra wires that will not work with your alternator.

The Pod Tronic reg/ rec came with the cycle x stator so the 3 wires that come out from it correspond perfectly.

The Ricks is perfect for the OEM wiring harness (which I no longer run) it has the 3 yellow wires which would still go to the stator

(there is also a black and a white wire that would have gone to the original OEM stator which are now redundant)

In addition to this there are 3 more wires white with red line that is meant to go to the starter relay a black to the ignition switch and a green that goes to earth.

Rick hasnt responded to my email with an answer yet but the more I look at it the more Im thinking I need a different reg / rec

So Im thinking youre right teazer she aint gonna work with the new stator

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« Last Edit: Jul 09, 2019, 04:30:00 by cb250nproject »
first cafe build was an incomplete learning experience, more of a test run for the real thing FRANKENHONDA II

Offline Sonreir

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Re: FRANKENHONDA II the 1982 DOHC CB 750F2 Build
« Reply #789 on: Jul 09, 2019, 11:17:35 »
I didn't realize you had the CycleX PMA setup. Sorry about the confusion.

This unit will work for you: http://www.sparckmoto.com/Products/Detail/103

I'll pre-wire it to match your alternator, I just need some pics of the connectors and some measurements.
Sparck Moto - http://www.sparckmoto.com

Audaces fortuna iuvat.

1977 Honda CJ360 - Caf SOS - Stage One, Caf SOS - Stage Two
1976 Puch Maxi - APuchalypse Now
Suzi T500 Cobra Resto

Custom Gauge Graphics
Custom Wiring Harnesses

DTT Red, White, and/or Black 360 Club - Better than those Blue guys