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Author Topic: Pamco Electronic Ignition for CB360 (rotor interference issue)  (Read 1593 times)

Offline MHDesign

  • Posts: 139

I'm setting up a Pamco electronic ignition for a cb360 and have run into an issue that I just can't seem to account for (with no luck searching DTT / elsewhere):

According to The instructions, the included rotor should be a direct-swap using the original hardware (just a bolt w/ washer into the threaded shaft).



With the "plate" (which replaces the points /w 2 circuit boards) seated properly, I have interference between the rotor and the screws that run through the circuit boards into the plate; the screws rub on the rotor.



The rotor is "keyed" to the shaft, so there's no room for a missing washer.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

...I did confirm that I ordered the correct (for a 360) Pamco ignition, but wonder if I was sent a rotor meant for a different application(?)



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Offline Duchat

  • Posts: 414
Re: Pamco Electronic Ignition for CB360 (rotor interference issue)
« Reply #1 on: Jul 08, 2017, 23:16:41 »
I didn't have that interference with mine, but personally I would grind down those screws just a smidge. Better the screws than the balanced rotor.

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Offline Turnturtle

  • Posts: 70
Re: Pamco Electronic Ignition for CB360 (rotor interference issue)
« Reply #2 on: Jul 10, 2017, 16:19:18 »
It is possible that the thrust washer to adjust side clearance on the camshaft was installed on the left (points side) of the engine.
this would move the end of the camshaft closer to the pick-up plate at least 1mm. You would have to pull off the rocker box to check.

Offline MHDesign

  • Posts: 139
Re: Pamco Electronic Ignition for CB360 (rotor interference issue)
« Reply #3 on: Jul 10, 2017, 22:58:06 »
I didn't have that interference with mine, but personally I would grind down those screws just a smidge. Better the screws than the balanced rotor.

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I'm hesitant to start shaving the screw heads because the difference in clearance isn't minor and I assume the gap is relatively important.

Any idea what the gap between the rotor and screw-heads (which serve as a contact) should be?

MORE IMPORTANTLY-

Does anyone know who actually makes PAMCO ignitions? They don't have a website / customer service / a tech-line. Google only yields results of sellers, and the company I bought the kit from does not cover any tech questions...

Thanks again for any input!

-Mike


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Offline MHDesign

  • Posts: 139
Re: Pamco Electronic Ignition for CB360 (rotor interference issue)
« Reply #4 on: Jul 10, 2017, 23:14:05 »
It is possible that the thrust washer to adjust side clearance on the camshaft was installed on the left (points side) of the engine.
this would move the end of the camshaft closer to the pick-up plate at least 1mm. You would have to pull off the rocker box to check.

I just posted a few minutes ago before seeing your response @turnturtle...

I think you may have hit the nail on the head. I'll refer back to the factory manual to be sure I understand before doing anything else.

The question remains (for anyone) though, who actually makes these PAMCO units? Do they have a tech line or point of contact?

Thanks again


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Online irk miller

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Re: Pamco Electronic Ignition for CB360 (rotor interference issue)
« Reply #5 on: Jul 10, 2017, 23:23:58 »
Pamco Pete makes the ignitions.  It's just one dude.  He's never been really good at communication.  Even in the beginning, weeks could go by before you got a response.  I'd refer to the vendor you bought it from.  You'll get where you need to go much quicker.

Offline MHDesign

  • Posts: 139
Re: Pamco Electronic Ignition for CB360 (rotor interference issue)
« Reply #6 on: Jul 11, 2017, 00:19:36 »
I just posted a few minutes ago before seeing your response @turnturtle...

I think you may have hit the nail on the head. I'll refer back to the factory manual to be sure I understand before doing anything else.

The question remains (for anyone) though, who actually makes these PAMCO units? Do they have a tech line or point of contact?

Thanks again


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Absolutely right @turnturtle.

This was a mistake on my part when completing the top end rebuild. I was so sure I hadn't missed anything...




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Offline MHDesign

  • Posts: 139
Re: Pamco Electronic Ignition for CB360 (rotor interference issue)
« Reply #7 on: Jul 11, 2017, 00:30:27 »
Pamco Pete makes the ignitions.  It's just one dude.  He's never been really good at communication.  Even in the beginning, weeks could go by before you got a response.  I'd refer to the vendor you bought it from.  You'll get where you need to go much quicker.

I saw his name come up a number of times, but (naively) figured he was just "some guy" that knows these ignitions and didn't want to bother some dude I don't know (assumed it was a bigger operation).

Thanks for the info - I should be all set, but will complete the job and report back with photos / results for the future reference of others...


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Offline Supergyro

  • Posts: 55
Re: Pamco Electronic Ignition for CB360 (rotor interference issue)
« Reply #8 on: Jul 11, 2017, 00:35:32 »
Great catch on the thrust washer! Going to be installing mine in a bit here so I'll be tracking your progress.

Offline MHDesign

  • Posts: 139
Re: Pamco Electronic Ignition for CB360 (rotor interference issue)
« Reply #9 on: Jul 12, 2017, 00:01:32 »
Great catch on the thrust washer! Going to be installing mine in a bit here so I'll be tracking your progress.

Great catch indeed! I could have been chasing my tail on that for a while (or worse)...Thrust washer is now (correctly) installed.



I'll continue to update as I set the static timing/reassemble the rocker assembly/go through the process of setting up the ignition.


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Offline frogman

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Re: Pamco Electronic Ignition for CB360 (rotor interference issue)
« Reply #10 on: Jul 12, 2017, 09:55:08 »
Highly suggest filling those bath tubs with oil before you try to crank that poor thing over, it will run quite a while without any oil pressure up top on first start up and those tubs are meant to hold oil for the cams during that time.

Offline MHDesign

  • Posts: 139
Re: Pamco Electronic Ignition for CB360 (rotor interference issue)
« Reply #11 on: Jul 12, 2017, 21:50:45 »
Highly suggest filling those bath tubs with oil before you try to crank that poor thing over, it will run quite a while without any oil pressure up top on first start up and those tubs are meant to hold oil for the cams during that time.

This was on my checklist before reassembly - but definitely worth noting @frogman.

I already filled the case to capacity with oil, so I bought a syringe and some clear tube so I can suck some oil out of the bottom end and squirt oil into the oil baths.


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Offline MHDesign

  • Posts: 139
Re: Pamco Electronic Ignition for CB360 (rotor interference issue)
« Reply #12 on: Jul 12, 2017, 22:53:21 »
For the sake of wrapping up the subject of the thread:

The incorrectly installed thrust washer was the culprit (and I'm glad I had a symptom to make me realize it!)

The rotor and plate for the Pamco ignition now seats properly with no interference.



Now...

Although a bit off topic (and I know it's been covered elsewhere) I'll plan to document cam timing and reassembly. Feel free to jump in if it looks like I'm doing something silly.

This follows a top-end rebuild of the motor and (nearly finished) complete ground-up build of the bike itself.






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Offline MHDesign

  • Posts: 139
Re: Pamco Electronic Ignition for CB360 (rotor interference issue)
« Reply #13 on: Jul 12, 2017, 23:55:58 »
Timing the cam to the rest of the rotating assembly:

With the cam resting in place and the cam sprocket loose (not attached to the cam, but holding the chain), I first slowly rotated the crank counter-clockwise with a 14 mm socket on a breaker bar so that the "LT" mark on the stator aligns with the reference point.



Under this condition, the left cylinder should be at TDC (top dead center). I confirmed this with a borescope from work (just "because"...), but you can really just look into the cylinder with a small flashlight through the spark plug hole to confirm that the piston is on the correct stroke):



Next, I installed the cam with the a light coat of general purpose grease on all points of contact, including the cam sprocket.



The timing marks on the cam sprocket are aligned horizontally with the head:



The cam lobes for the left cylinder are "down" so that the valves are not engaged (both are closed for the instant of spark and combustion):



With all of the above aligned, the cam should be timed with the rest of the motor.

I'll follow this up with final assembly, but if this strays too much farther from the original topic (setting up a Pamco Ign.), I'll go back to posting in my original build thread.

Comments, questions and, most importantly, criticisms are welcome!



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Offline MHDesign

  • Posts: 139
Pamco Electronic Ignition for CB360 (rotor interference issue)
« Reply #14 on: Jul 13, 2017, 01:31:12 »
Next up- initial assembly:

With all of the components timed together, the cam sprocket bolts can now be installed. (Note: in the previous photos, the sprocket was installed on the cam with the bolts "finger-tight", so that the entire rotating assembly could be rotated/adjusted).

Now I'll properly install the cam sprocket...

First, install the (accessible) sprocket bolt with a bit of blue, removable loctite thread locker.





After you snug the first bolt, turn the crank 180 degrees counter-clockwise to gain access to the second sprocket bolt (by using a 14mm socket and ratchet or breaker bar on the crank bolt).



Apply loctite to the second sprocket bolt.



Snug the bolt:



Grab a torque wrench, 10mm socket and an extension-

To complete the cam / sprocket installation, the sprocket bolts must be torqued to between 13.1 and 15.2 lb/ft. I chose the "middle " at 14 lb/ft.



I'm using a Snap-on digital Torque Wrench to make things easier, but really, the key is to be within a range - and not down to .100 foot-pounds...

Torque the bolts:

Lock the crank bolt first so the motor can't turn over:



Now torque both sprocket bolts to 14 lb/ft. You'll have to rotate the motor (again) 180 degrees to access both bolts.




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I may wrap this up with the install of the valve cover, but that's all for now...
« Last Edit: Jul 13, 2017, 02:38:26 by MHDesign »

Offline Supergyro

  • Posts: 55
Re: Pamco Electronic Ignition for CB360 (rotor interference issue)
« Reply #15 on: Jul 18, 2017, 08:57:37 »
Those Snap-On digital wrenches sure are the easy button! I'm thankful to have the world's best neighbor to loan me his.