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Author Topic: "the Mooch"  (Read 40047 times)

Online J-Rod10

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Re: "the Mooch"
« Reply #810 on: Oct 13, 2018, 15:47:22 »
I've never understood the argument against voter id laws. One was upheld here by the state Supreme Court last week as well. You have to have an ID to do virtually anything, and that never seems to be an issue. But, something as important as voting, showing an ID is the end of the world.

Side bar on that. They let people use a P.O. Box as an address on a government issued ID in ND? That's odd. You have to give a physical address, and show an ID to get a P.O. Box.

Both sides gerrymander. They draw, redraw, draw again, and on and on when it comes to voting districts. Nothing new. Both sides do it when they have the power to do so. Not saying that makes it right, but you certainly can't solely lay that at the feet of the GOP.


Let me ask you this. You said the deal on CNN isn't a big deal to you. If that happened on Fox, say Ben Carson, Candace Owens said what the 3-4 of them said, would it be a big deal then?

Re: "the Mooch"
« Reply #811 on: Oct 13, 2018, 16:32:33 »
I've never understood the argument against voter id laws. One was upheld here by the state Supreme Court last week as well. You have to have an ID to do virtually anything, and that never seems to be an issue. But, something as important as voting, showing an ID is the end of the world.

Side bar on that. They let people use a P.O. Box as an address on a government issued ID in ND? That's odd. You have to give a physical address, and show an ID to get a P.O. Box.

Perhaps you should look into it a little. Don't you think it's curious that voter ID laws tend to disenfranchise minorities at a disproportionate rate? Isn't that more than a little troubling?

My US ID, from Arizona, has a PO box on it. It's not strange, it's not weird, it's easy -- because that's where I get my mail. Yes -- you need a physical address to get a PO Box. That's kind of the point -- Native Americans in North Dakota who live in rural areas used a physical address to get a PO box, so why shouldn't their ID work?

Let me ask you this. You said the deal on CNN isn't a big deal to you. If that happened on Fox, say Ben Carson, Candace Owens said what the 3-4 of them said, would it be a big deal then?

That would never happen because of the completely different racial dynamics of the dems and reps. But yeah, if Carson said someone was, what -- "Obama's token negro"? That would actually be kind of funny.
"Remember when Goldwings were sexy? Me neither" -- Comet Tavern bathroom, Seattle.

Online J-Rod10

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Re: "the Mooch"
« Reply #812 on: Oct 13, 2018, 16:53:52 »
So, I could use my Florida drivers license to get a P.O. Box in Arizona, use that P.O. Box address to get an Arizona ID, use that Arizona ID to register to vote in Arizona along with being registered in Florida?

More or less, I could become an Arizona citizen, without actually living in Arizona, and vote there.
« Last Edit: Oct 13, 2018, 16:57:01 by J-Rod10 »

Re: "the Mooch"
« Reply #813 on: Oct 13, 2018, 16:58:23 »
So, I could use my Florida drivers license to get a P.O. Box in Arizona, use that P.O. Box address to get an Arizona ID, use that Arizona ID to register to vote in Arizona along with being registered in Florida?

Now you're being silly. No, you can't get a PO box in Arizona without an Arizona address.

Worth mentioning here, I suppose, that the GOP fear of nearly non-existent voter fraud might be party based on ideas such as yours.
"Remember when Goldwings were sexy? Me neither" -- Comet Tavern bathroom, Seattle.

Online J-Rod10

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Re: "the Mooch"
« Reply #814 on: Oct 13, 2018, 17:02:01 »
Now you're being silly. No, you can't get a PO box in Arizona without an Arizona address.

Worth mentioning here, I suppose, that the GOP fear of nearly non-existent voter fraud might be party based on ideas such as yours.
I had no issue getting a P.O. Box in Starkville, MS when I was in college with an Arkansas ID.

Offline irk miller

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Re: "the Mooch"
« Reply #815 on: Oct 13, 2018, 17:15:48 »
No rules on getting a PO Box out of state, except that you have to be physically present to get one.  You cannot use a PO Box address to register to vote, though.

Online J-Rod10

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Re: "the Mooch"
« Reply #816 on: Oct 13, 2018, 18:52:40 »
No rules on getting a PO Box out of state, except that you have to be physically present to get one.  You cannot use a PO Box address to register to vote, though.
So basically, ND wants to make sure people with ND IDs that have P.O. Boxes on them actually live in ND in order to vote in ND elections. Makes sense to me.

Re: "the Mooch"
« Reply #817 on: Oct 13, 2018, 21:38:45 »
I had no issue getting a P.O. Box in Starkville, MS when I was in college with an Arkansas ID.

There's no requirement for using an in-state ID, but there is a requirement to be present in person as well as to have a local physical address. So yeah, you can get a PO Box in MS with an AR ID. And as IM points out, you can't register to vote without a local physical address.

So do you seriously think there is a problem with rural Native Americans getting mail at a PO Box and using that as the address on their ID, and somehow -- what? -- committing voter fraud? Or do you think that people from Montana are somehow getting PO Boxes in North Dakota and then, somehow, getting registered to vote in that state? And that this law is somehow preventing that? That's not happening.

What is happening, as I pointed out, is the disenfranchisement of 70,000 Native Americans and more of other groups.

Does the disenfranchisement of huge parts of the population "make sense" to you?

How do you feel about Jack Kemp disenfranchising tens of thousands of African Americans in Georgia? Especially when it looks like he might lose by a close margin of African American voters? That's good practice for American democracy?

And all this time I thought that the Republicans were supposed to be the party of fewer regulations, keeping the "nanny state" out of people's business. So they invent a "threat" out of thin air, one that is proven not to be happening on any kind of large scale or that affects elections --voter fraud -- and create legislation that will have instead the effect of bolstering their position by disenfranchising minorities. Does that "make sense" to you as well?
"Remember when Goldwings were sexy? Me neither" -- Comet Tavern bathroom, Seattle.

Online J-Rod10

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Re: "the Mooch"
« Reply #818 on: Oct 13, 2018, 23:21:33 »
So, I read a bit about the North Dakota deal.

North Dakota does not require, nor have, voter registration.

So, ensuring folks voting actually live in North Dakota, and are voting in the districts that they live in seems to be the goal here.

Still, don't much see a problem with that.

Re: "the Mooch"
« Reply #819 on: Oct 13, 2018, 23:45:40 »
So, I read a bit about the North Dakota deal.

North Dakota does not require, nor have, voter registration.

So, ensuring folks voting actually live in North Dakota, and are voting in the districts that they live in seems to be the goal here.

Still, don't much see a problem with that.

You're ignoring the point: this law disenfranchises tens of thousands of people, with no evidence that any meaningful voter fraud has occurred.

"Only one accusation of fraud a man charged with voting in two counties in the 2016 election has been prosecuted in the past several decades, Silrum said." http://www.startribune.com/no-voter-registration-point-of-pride-unease-in-north-dakota/485071011/

The goal here is disenfranchisement.

Frequently it seems the "sounds good to me" test really means "it doesn't affect me, but helps my political party." 
"Remember when Goldwings were sexy? Me neither" -- Comet Tavern bathroom, Seattle.