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Author Topic: 2 stroke oil in gas in 4 stroke engine: myth?  (Read 678 times)

Offline tahitianrider

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    • tomracingdesigns.com
2 stroke oil in gas in 4 stroke engine: myth?
« on: Mar 16, 2019, 18:19:14 »
Hi,
So I met another rider the other day, which also had many bikes, classic and newer ones, etc. like me and he told me something I had never heard off before but it actually seems that multiple people actually does that.
He basically told me that he mixed full synthetic 2 stroke oil in his gas at a very low ratio (200:1) in all of his 4 stroke bikes, whether they are modern, old, fuel injected, carburated... and he told me that he did notice a lot of improvement, engine running smoother, he said he felt more power on smaller cc bikes too...
So I did some research online and found this guy:

https://inspirationmomentsblog.wordpress.com/2015/12/27/2-stroke-oil-in-a-4-stroke-motorcycle/

So it does seems that some people use 2 stroke oil in their 4 stroke bikes... anyone here already tried that?

The guy I met seemed to know a bunch about oil.. he also told me that he uses some silicone "super lubricant" as an additive to his engine oil and that he notice a 10hp power increase on a dyno bench on a NTV650.

I'm just curious
'94 BMW K75 Racer
'84 Yamaha XJ 600 "Rocket" Racer
'76 CB 360 old school cafe
'96 CM 125 Brat bike
'80 CX 500 Racer
'73 CB350F Scrambler
'77 CB750F2
'70 CZ 125 vintage 2 stroke!
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Offline wozza

  • Posts: 59
Re: 2 stroke oil in gas in 4 stroke engine: myth?
« Reply #1 on: Mar 16, 2019, 18:47:39 »
Some bikes already suck oil vapor through the airbox :)...way way back we use to run a tablespoon of castor oil in the fuel, this was for the smell no increase in power!...it did cause issues with the injected bikes...only time we saw any increase in performance was when we went to the local airport and filled up with avgas :D     
Us oldies miss the lead they put in fuel, we tend to think that engines need an upper lubricant or they will explode...Its just an old woman's mens tale ;) 
« Last Edit: Mar 16, 2019, 18:53:32 by wozza »

Offline Sav0r

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Re: 2 stroke oil in gas in 4 stroke engine: myth?
« Reply #2 on: Mar 17, 2019, 09:42:44 »
You can find evidence for anything you want to believe on the Internet.

Correlation isn’t causation and butt dynos are good for nothing. If adding a small amount of motor oil to fuel made any difference every car, motorcycle, bus, airplane, boat would already be doing it. Truth is, all the highest powered engines run negative pressure crank cases and deliver oil via positive pressure exactly where it needs to go. Premix not required.
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Offline teazer

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Re: 2 stroke oil in gas in 4 stroke engine: myth?
« Reply #3 on: Mar 17, 2019, 11:40:00 »
+1

So called "Upper Cylinder lubricants" used to be popular about 50 years ago.  Modern oils and modern engine designs made them irrelevant a long time ago. 

As to super oils, sure some oils work better than others for all sorts of reason, but there is no way that a change of oil made a 10hp difference to an NV650. 

Offline tahitianrider

  • Posts: 94
    • tomracingdesigns.com
Re: 2 stroke oil in gas in 4 stroke engine: myth?
« Reply #4 on: Mar 17, 2019, 15:01:36 »
Some bikes already suck oil vapor through the airbox :)...way way back we use to run a tablespoon of castor oil in the fuel, this was for the smell no increase in power!...it did cause issues with the injected bikes...only time we saw any increase in performance was when we went to the local airport and filled up with avgas :D     
Us oldies miss the lead they put in fuel, we tend to think that engines need an upper lubricant or they will explode...Its just an old woman's mens tale ;)

Haha I'm not old enough to know the smell of leaded fuel ^^

You can find evidence for anything you want to believe on the Internet.

Correlation isn’t causation and butt dynos are good for nothing. If adding a small amount of motor oil to fuel made any difference every car, motorcycle, bus, airplane, boat would already be doing it. Truth is, all the highest powered engines run negative pressure crank cases and deliver oil via positive pressure exactly where it needs to go. Premix not required.

Yeah that is for sure. But cost also has an effect, like some the additive like octanes booster or VP racing fuel, it sure is better for high engine, but they won't just sell this at the gas station because it would cost a lot and people just don't need it.

+1

So called "Upper Cylinder lubricants" used to be popular about 50 years ago.  Modern oils and modern engine designs made them irrelevant a long time ago. 

As to super oils, sure some oils work better than others for all sorts of reason, but there is no way that a change of oil made a 10hp difference to an NV650. 

Yeah I was very skeptical about this too... thing is here in France, they are few manufacturer of "super oil additives" that have been around for about 20 years. And reading about people try them, they did notice much difference, I'm not talking about a 10hp which does seems crazy to me too. But less heat in the cranckase, less vibration, and less humidity.
'94 BMW K75 Racer
'84 Yamaha XJ 600 "Rocket" Racer
'76 CB 360 old school cafe
'96 CM 125 Brat bike
'80 CX 500 Racer
'73 CB350F Scrambler
'77 CB750F2
'70 CZ 125 vintage 2 stroke!
www.tomracingdesigns.com

Offline clem

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Re: 2 stroke oil in gas in 4 stroke engine: myth?
« Reply #5 on: Mar 17, 2019, 15:08:46 »
Years ago I was heading to some  out of state motocross races and ran out of fuel in my toyota pickup. 2 o'clock in the morning on the dark side of the interstate I quickly took my 5 gallon jug of 32:1 112 octane and dumped 1 gallon in the truck. It got me to the next exit but the truck wasn't any quicker, just smelled better 😂

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Offline trek97

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Re: 2 stroke oil in gas in 4 stroke engine: myth?
« Reply #6 on: Mar 17, 2019, 17:30:37 »
I would be afraid of anything added to the oil causing the clutch slip.

Ive heard of adding a cap full of Marvel Mystery to the gas helps prevent sticky slides.

Offline teazer

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Re: 2 stroke oil in gas in 4 stroke engine: myth?
« Reply #7 on: Mar 19, 2019, 12:47:53 »
STP was around for years.  Slick 50 is another that used to be advertised as another miracle cure, that didn't seem to work as well in the real world as it did on TV.  There have been others including all sorts of Moly based lubes and things that supposedly bond at a molecular level with the engine parts.  So far I have yet to see any scientific proof that any of them work or are worth the cost.

Modern motors work well with relatively low viscosity oils and that is about as good as it gets.

Race gas with high octane is only a benefit if the ignition is advanced to take advantage of the extra knock resistance.  That said, VP U4.4 makes a difference to throttle response even on a regular car or truck but it costs around $20 bucks a gallon.  Not that I would ever tip the end of a can of race gas into a street car, but ........

Offline tahitianrider

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Re: 2 stroke oil in gas in 4 stroke engine: myth?
« Reply #8 on: Mar 20, 2019, 11:53:56 »
I would be afraid of anything added to the oil causing the clutch slip.

Ive heard of adding a cap full of Marvel Mystery to the gas helps prevent sticky slides.

Yeah they do advice only to put small amount in motorcycle with wet clucth to prevent slipping.

STP was around for years.  Slick 50 is another that used to be advertised as another miracle cure, that didn't seem to work as well in the real world as it did on TV.  There have been others including all sorts of Moly based lubes and things that supposedly bond at a molecular level with the engine parts.  So far I have yet to see any scientific proof that any of them work or are worth the cost.

Modern motors work well with relatively low viscosity oils and that is about as good as it gets.

Race gas with high octane is only a benefit if the ignition is advanced to take advantage of the extra knock resistance.  That said, VP U4.4 makes a difference to throttle response even on a regular car or truck but it costs around $20 bucks a gallon.  Not that I would ever tip the end of a can of race gas into a street car, but ........

Yeah I think slick 50 is the US equivalent of what we have in France here, they do not seem to procure the benefits from the ads, except from the lower cranckase temperature, I've video test online (I love the "Project Farm" channel on Youtube) and Slick 50 do reduce engine temp a bit.
'94 BMW K75 Racer
'84 Yamaha XJ 600 "Rocket" Racer
'76 CB 360 old school cafe
'96 CM 125 Brat bike
'80 CX 500 Racer
'73 CB350F Scrambler
'77 CB750F2
'70 CZ 125 vintage 2 stroke!
www.tomracingdesigns.com

Offline advCo

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Re: 2 stroke oil in gas in 4 stroke engine: myth?
« Reply #9 on: Mar 20, 2019, 12:02:50 »
I've put a cap full of 2 stroke oil in the gas on my 4 stroke machines before. If nothing else it keeps the ethanol fuel from varnishing as fast.