collapse

www.dimecitycycles.com

www.cognitomoto.com

https://www.townmoto.com/collections/vanson-leathers

www.speedmotoco.com

www.CITYLIMITMOTO.com

www.jadusmotorcycleparts.com

www.lostapostlejewelry.com

www.sparckmoto.com

www.pistonsociety.com


Author Topic: Forward mount and clip ons? Feedback sought.  (Read 1468 times)

Offline brad black

  • Posts: 198
Re: Forward mount and clip ons? Feedback sought.
« Reply #20 on: Jul 22, 2019, 23:09:08 »
one of my other monsters is back in original trim and almost ready to be sold, and sitting on it my knees stick out past the dent relief with the footrest in front of my heel.  my knees fit under if i have the ball of my foot on the footrest, but that's not a normal suburban position for me.  so i figured that it didn't really matter so much having my knees poking out.

then, after i'd done a road test on a customer's s4rs, it occurred to me that it was different.  sure enough, the plastic tank relief is both higher and further forward.  my knees fit inside it just fine with footrests in front of heel.  the footrests on both are in the same place afaict, although the s4rs had a different seat that is maybe an inch higher than the one on my yellow monster.  looks like the 2v model plastic tanks are the same as the 4v ones topside wise at least.

i was going to use the black fuel injected model tank that is on this bike now on another monster i have, and fix the dented early tank originally from the yellow bike to use on this bike, as the seat shape is being modified anyway and that's the main difference between early and late carby (early efi) model tanks.  but maybe i could just get a plastic tank instead.  cheap and no panel beating required.  maybe just some sticks to plastic filler.


Offline brad black

  • Posts: 198
Re: Forward mount and clip ons? Feedback sought.
« Reply #21 on: Jul 28, 2019, 10:03:00 »
had some more play over the weekend.  i keep being drawn to this thing, but mainly the motivation was to get the 17mm front axle out of it as it's from my 400ss and i want to start putting it back together soon.  so i needed something else for this.

i found a later 20mm axle, and i have the captive nut pieces to go in the end of the axle for either  and conveniently the tdm850 front wheel bearings as 6303 - 17/47/14 and 6204 are 20/47/14, so all i had to do was replace the original bearings, which were unsealed and had to be replaced anyway.  i cut down another 20mm bearing spacer i had to the right length and bang in it went.

i was going to get a 282mm yamaha fzr250r front disc from metalgear locally, which has gold steel centres.  i sent them an email last week asking if they could do a black or silver centre, and they said their next run of that disc is silver aluminium centre.  like they read my mind.  so when they arrive i'll be able to centre the wheel and make spacers and caliper brackets.

anyway, this is sort of where i'm going.  probably.  the stance here is with the rear at about the height it'll be with me on it, but the front is unloaded so is about 30mm too high.  i'll possibly have to reduce the total fork travel a bit to be able to get a front guard under the lower triple at full compression, but it'll still have at least 100mm i'd think.  muffler will pick up the upper frame / bottom of seat line using an multistrada 620 header pipe for a donor.  the paint stripes on the tank i don't know whether to run vertical or match the angle of the forks.  i think i'll cut the shit out of the little front fairing and use "normal" bars of some sort.
maybe a very dark blue matt or satin paint or black under gloss stripes?  dunno.


Offline brad black

  • Posts: 198
Re: Forward mount and clip ons? Feedback sought.
« Reply #22 on: Aug 25, 2019, 08:52:09 »
i rode a new 659 monster (learner 797) this week after a service, first time i've ridden that model, and it has the footrests moved forward compared to the older ones, and the bars felt noticeably too low for the feet position to me, which was interesting.  so if i go forward with the feet i'm going to have to go up and back with the hands.

i saw i think a harley iron 1200 on the way to work one morning, with high bars and a fairing and that's sort of what i was thinking of might work.  the fairing i'd like to use to get rid of, but it'll need to be cut down a heap.

i was thinking about a slightly different base colour, maybe a very dark matt blue or flat aluminium, like the high temp header paint.  not sure what gloss clear looks like over matt.  but i see just looking at the harley site that the 2020 iron 1200 has a dark blue with red/orange/yellow stripe option.  bastards.  could keep it pure ducati with the pantah tl / s2 shitty grey/silver colour, but i don't think i could stomach that.

i was going to run the paint stripes down the centre of the tank from the rear 3 stripes, so from the top/rear it looks like the mid 70's ducati T font.  not sure if the masking is something i can accomplish though, never having done anything like that before.

anyway, the front discs i want are available this week, so i can get them and start playing with the front end caliper and wheel spacing wise.  even if it ends up being a scrambler thing it'll still have the same front end so progress to be made.  i have a 400ss to reassemble too, but it's kind of straight back together boring and this thing is much more interesting.

Offline brad black

  • Posts: 198
Re: Forward mount and clip ons? Feedback sought.
« Reply #23 on: Aug 29, 2019, 08:37:02 »
discs arrived.  not as small as i'd thought they might look, esp compared to a 320.  couldn't help myself, so i dodged real work for an hour or so and fitted them to the wheel, then cut the lh axle spacer down to centre the wheel and went the cardboard aided design for caliper brackets.  turns out the lower mounting hole on the fork and the upper caliper mount are at right angles to the planes of mounting screws.  certainly floats my symmetry boat.

did a solidworks caliper bracket and hopefully have that water cut soon.  will have to piss off the 90 series front tyre at some point and fit an 80.  it just looks like a balloon.

i think i've found somewhere i can put some forward mounts too.  will have to knock something up.

Offline brad black

  • Posts: 198
Re: Forward mount and clip ons? Feedback sought.
« Reply #24 on: Sep 01, 2019, 02:07:42 »
i have a spreadsheet i started ages ago when i went through the rear suspension linkage to map it out and see what might be the consequences of lowering it.  chart from that is below.  spring loads are all kg/10.  everything else is mm i think. 

when i first got it my other m600 years ago it had 46mm of sag on the rear, with 10mm of spring preload.  i upped the preload to 16mm and got 35mm sag, which is what i wanted.  measuring the spring and calculating the spring rate (it's a progressive spring) over the 140mm of wheel travel / 67mm of shock travel it starts at 9.3kg/mm, then goes to 11.5 and then 15kg/mm at full compression.  based on the spring curve i plotted out i worked out that the sag load with me on it is around 275kg.  full compression load was 800kg with the preload before and 900 after - surprising how much difference 6mm of preload can make to the fully compressed load, but 6mm is 9% of the total shock travel i guess.

when the shock is shortened to 47mm total travel, to replicate that load at full compression an 18.6kg/mm spring with 1mm of preload would work, but it's a pretty stiff spring.  i know some people run an 8 on the back of a monster that's a single person bike, so in terms of the final load on an 8 with the std travel a 15 with the reduced travel would give about the same result.

the swingarm angle is probably no longer accurate as i've been raising the front to get clearance above the front tyre, making the swingarm more negative for any given position.  the linkage ratio varies from 0.40 to 0.52 or so.  all fun stuff to play with, but riding it with the shortened shock and heavier spring will be the ultimate test.
« Last Edit: Sep 01, 2019, 02:18:14 by brad black »

Offline brad black

  • Posts: 198
Re: Forward mount and clip ons? Feedback sought.
« Reply #25 on: Sep 08, 2019, 00:50:20 »
caliper mounts cut!  i like this waterjet business.

now i have to make up some "nuts" to go behind the original holes on the fork legs to mount the brackets to.  individual nuts i'm not so keen on because even if i lockwire the bolts holding the brackets to the forks - more as a visual reminder to "don't undo these" i guess than a real safety concern - the nuts are another degree of freedom again.

last one i did i had some threaded blocks cnc'd up.  you can see them with the cnc'd caliper mounts from the yellow monster.  i can either get that done again, or maybe just weld a little plate between two nuts to make them captive and call it done.  the price last time equalled the impressiveness of the part.  it was somewhat eye watering overall getting a heap of stuff cnc'd
« Last Edit: Sep 08, 2019, 01:03:19 by brad black »