1972 DT 250 - First Project EVA

[papakopp]

As long as nothing changes, tomorrow evening I will be the owner of one horrible piece of dookie.

I've been a member over here for a little while but have yet to make the dive into motorcycle building. Finally, I have reached that point.

After scouring the Atlanta motorcycle section of Craigslist for about two years I finally have some extra cash and am completely fed up with dreaming. Which prompted me to offer $200 for a 1972 DT-1 250 in all its glorious potential as a disastrous money pit. Here's the only picture I have of it, straight from Craigslist:


As you can see, it's missing A TON of stuff. He did say he had some DT360 motors and carbs that he'd be willing to throw in for some extra dough. But even so, its still missing the exhaust, throttle, I'm sure a bunch of other miscellaneous stuff and literally everything to make it street legal. I have a feeling this is going to be a terrible purchase and I'm going to end up parting everything out, but to be honest I don't care. I have been itching to work on a bike for the last 6 years. And when your only 21, six years is a good chunk of your life to be sitting around dreaming up bike builds.

ANYWAY, first course of action: get the damn thing back to Atlanta and get it running. Which of course will require a few parts. Where do y'all recommend I look for parts. I know that there's always Ebay, but it seems like prices over there can get crazy ridiculous.

Essentially, I'll just be wrenching around on this thing till I get it running alright, then I'll worry about cosmetics/legality issues. But when I do get to that point I'm looking to do some sort of tracker-esque bar runner. Living in the city means I shouldn't have to worry about freeway speeds too often, though I would like to take it on a few longer trips here and there.

Well I can tell already I'm going to be unnecessarily long-winded, and because I have no more pics for you guys (which I know y'all love) I will just leave this alone for now. More updates/pictures to come in the next few days. If anybody has ANY sort of advice for me I'm going to need all that I can get.

 

[makotosun]

Www.yamahaenduro.com is a good place for info. Sometimes difficult to get registered and on, but tons of two stroke knowledge there.

Lots of parts are still available from Yamaha. Try Partzilla.com and search for your bike. You will be pleasantly surprised.

Northwest Vintage Cycle Parts is a great source for NOS. http://www.nwvcp.com/

I recently finished a 71 DT1 gravel tracker project and it is a really killer fun playbike. Mine is more off road designed, but is destined to be mainly an around town rider.

Next hopefully is a DT400/Mx400-based street legal tracker . . .

-

 

[papakopp]

Holy friggin killer bike dude! That thing is baad! That is going smack to the top of my list of inspirational bikes. If I could get anything close to that I would be ecstatic. Little 2stroke street trackers are so friggin killer.

Also, I really appreciate all the links. I'll definitely be utilizing some of those. Ya know, I haven't posted too much to DTT but everyone I've encountered has been crazy helpful and super nice. This is the internet right? Where's all the ignorant intolerance?

 

[bradj]

I built this 250 a few years back i sold it unfinished. there is a mono shock hidden under the seat

 

[papakopp]

Brad, that expansion chamber is nuts haha. Looks like it would have run like bat though. It's pretty badass you replied to my thread, your RD is actually one of the bikes that got me interested in yamaha 2strokes. That monoshock is pretty killer too man. It's too bad you got rid of it haha.

 

[makotosun]

Glad you liked the bike. Here is a link to the short build thread here: http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=47531.msg525858#msg525858

The bike was a long term project and was my firsts attempt at a lot of things, including custom paint.

Do you have a good manual? They are really helpful for the mechanical stuff. There is a fellow in North Carolina who does a lot of neat restoration work on these (wiring harnesses, ignition restoration, etc). You can also get some neat parts interchange software from Zedder Enterprises, as many parts interchange between models, and often items can be found on e-bay with a different application.

These old bikes are great fun. I and a motley crew of 5 others rode some of them across the US on the Trans America trail a few years back. Quite an adventure. You can read more about one section of that ride at : http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/features/122_1005_trans_america_trail/viewall.html

Let me know if you need any specific information. I may have a PDF of a factory manual somewhere . . .

 

[bradj]

If you can get ahold of any of those 360 motors do it do it do it justinlonghorn has a pretty kool dt that i helped him build i think is in the tracker section pm me if you need any help

 

[papakopp]

Once again, super killer bike. I was planning on ordering a clymer, but wanted to be extra sure and check the vin before I end up ordering the wrong manual. That cross country trip looks so fuggin cool man. My buddy and I are actually planning on something like that for next summer. So incredibly tempting. Also, if you have that pdf, I would be eternally grateful.

I'll definitely try to snag up one of the 360's. They drop right into the 250 frames right? My understanding leads me to believe it would just be a one for one swap. How much should I be paying the dude for an extra 360 motor and carb? Justin's dt looks bad ass too man. All these dt's are giving me so many ideas it's making me a little giddy haha.

 

[bradj]

The difference in hp is great enuff that i your try real hard to get one if i cpuld afford it example dt250 come up for sale all the time for reasonable amounts of money but dt/mx360's ....not so much i know guys that owned them new and they would all buy another im pretty sure the motor drops in but if npt its not the end of the world if ypu can get a motor with the bike it will never be cheaper. check ebay you will see

 

[BoJordan]

Nice man, better condition than mine when I bought it! I got a honda xl250s that was used as a farm bike for ages. Cost me $200 and I've been chipping away at it since march. It's great fun! Keep up the updates and I dunno about everyone else, but I love pics, so keep them coming!

 

[makotosun]

Any 360 motor up through 1973 will bolt right in. 74 and later have different mount setups.

You should be aware that the 71 and earlier "should" be piston port motors (no reed valves) and the 72-73 models are reeded. Either is fine. Some of the later 360 motors had factory compression releases which you NEED! Seriously.

Wiring is plug and play between the 250 & 360, though there may be some subtle differences between years. Most all other parts of the 360 and 250 of same years are interchangeable.

They all can use aftermarket voltage regulators when running lights.otherwise they are notorious for blowing bulbs. You absolutely need a battery if running lights without one as it is part of the regulating setup. They did a factory retrofit starting in 1976 (75 in Canada).

They are pretty simple bikes, but when set up right are bullet proof.

I will look for the manual.

 

[makotosun]

Here is a factory service manual in PDF:

http://s93795793.onlinehome.us/pdf/dt1_2_3_RT1_2_3_manual.pdf

Here is a 1970 or 71 owners manual:

http://s93795793.onlinehome.us/pdf/RT1_Rider_Manual_SM.pdf

Here is a color wiring diagram in PDF:

http://s93795793.onlinehome.us/pdf/DT_RT_Wire_diagram_Color.pdf

And another in just an image file . . .

I obviously have issues . . .

 

[papakopp]

I'm definitely gonna try to snag a 360 motor when I meet up with the guy this evening. I have no idea what he's got so I don't necessarily have any expectations, but we'll find out soon enough.

Makoto, after reading through your build thread I am going to take special care in making sure I have a good compression release. That ankle looked pretty brutal. I've heard about the notorious bulb blowing without voltage regulation. Unfortunately, wiring and electrical stuff is something I have literally zero experience with and something I'm not looking forward to. Especially after taking a look at the wiring diagrams. This shit is daunting.

I really appreciate all the help y'all. And all the pdf's. You guys are ok in my book

Anyway, more updates and pictures to come this evening when I get back with the bike. Trying to figure out where I'm gonna keep the thing. Living in an apartment complex in the city is not an ideal place to be working on a bike. But we'll make it work.

 

[catsy]

Ive played a lot with the DT's.
maybe i missed it if someone already posted it,
but snag the 360! it should bolt straight in! and their an absolute weapon.
ill do my best to help if you need any!

 

[papakopp]

Ok just a quick update. My camera hasn't been working so I don't have any pictures. Maybe I'll go out with my camera phone and snap a few a little later today.

But anyway, I went and picked up the bike. Not too terrible. Looks like there's some broken parts and some hella jerry rigged stuff (both the seat and the tank were held on with wire) but the condition was about as I had expected. The fuel tank was apparently drained so it looks like it won't need a crazy amount of attention, just a little bit of surface rust. I also took home two 360 motors. Well, more like one and a half. The first seems pretty complete minus a crankcase cover but it does look like it was dropped a few times. There's a piece broken off the cylinder head and some fins are broken or bent. But it turns over never the less. The other 360 motor is more or less just junk. Looks like an older model I can't really tell. It's seized up and missing a lot of shit. Again, I'll try to get y'all pictures later today so you can get a point of reference.

He also threw in a couple carburetors (Mikuni, but I'm not sure what year/if they'll fit) and some other miscellaneous things. A set of shocks, ignition points still in the box, an extra cylinder head, a couple speedos, and some nuts and bolts.

My question is this, what should be my first course of action? The 250 was missing one of the oil drain plug screws and other residents in my apartment were getting pissed that I was leaking oil in the parking garage, so I went ahead and just drained the rest of the oil. I guess I should probably go ahead and drain the injection oil as well just to start fresh. But then what? I guess this is going to be my to do list; 1. Find essential parts (intake manifold to fit one of the carbs, throttle, clutch cable) 2. Get the 250 running? Or should I focus my attention on the 360? Should I do the old switch-a-roo now while everything seems to be disconnected?

I've got a Clymer's manual in the mail, so I'll be working from that. Last question, how can I tell whether or not one of these carbs will work with the 360, or the 250 for that matter? Do I only have to worry about the size?

 

[papakopp]

Alright so I took some pictures with my phone, not the best quality, but pictures nevertheless.

Here's the 250 as she sits in her new home.





This is the better 360 motor. It appears to be out of a 1972 RT3. I think.
Before minor cleaning:




After destroying a wire brush and a scotch brite pad:








Here's the other 360 motor. I'm not really sure what year its from but it's got to be earlier. Or at least that's what my instincts are telling me. The pictures don't really show how bad it is, but I'll show y'all anyway:






Here are some of the other things I got from him. Fox Shox, a couple extra heads, a couple Mikuni carbs, a couple speedo's:







The crowning jewel of the extras are those fox shox. Looking like they're coming straight out of the 70's. America as hell.

More pics to come as more things happen. I've got some parts on their way, but in the mean time I'll be doing more cleaning of stuffs. I'm also gonna be working on my buddy's cb360 this weekend cause he just got a butt load of parts. Anyway, more to come.

 

[makotosun]

Great score on the Shox!

You are correct in guessing the second 360 is an earlier motor. It is an RT1 piston port (non-reed) motor.

The other is either an RT2 or RT3 motor with the reeds. The reeds are inside the 4 bolt flange where the carb bolts on. You can still get Boyesen reeds for them - try EBay.

My suggestion, would be a slightly different path than you initially described. Did you get a title with it? If not, you need to sort that out BEFORE investing time and money into something you might not be able to street tag.

Once you have a licenseable frame, get one of the motors running. Then go for the fun cosmetics.

I did one without getting papers done, then spent a year getting paperwork so I could ride the damn thing.

The tank tells me it is a '72 DT2 so the motor should have reeds. If you need a new fuel tap, there is a current OEM part that is about $17 - don't get the cheap Repops or try to rebuild the old one.

Determine what you need, and let me know. I can direct you to the best (cheapest!) sources. Start with Partzilla for OEM stuff first - especially for mechanical and seals. Engine seals are NLA from Yamaha, but there is a good eBay seller with current versions.

Looks like you have a good setting point!

 

[hunterkey]

I was eyeing this bike too ha, I have a 1973 dt250 (dt3) all stock though. Such a fun bike when she is running! we should hit some trails once yours is rolling! I live up in dawsonville

 

[papakopp]

Ok so I ordered a ton of parts like 2 weeks ago and they still haven't arrived. So not a whole lot to update y'all on thus far.

My suggestion, would be a slightly different path than you initially described. Did you get a title with it? If not, you need to sort that out BEFORE investing time and money into something you might not be able to street tag.

Once you have a licenseable frame, get one of the motors running. Then go for the fun cosmetics.

I did one without getting papers done, then spent a year getting paperwork so I could ride the damn thing.

I have the good fortune to live in Georgia where only a bill of sale is necessary to register a bike of certain age. Which mine qualifies for. But you're probably right, i should probably go ahead and get it registered and everything before I spend too much time and effort getting it running.

Quick question though. And this will probably showcase my ineptitude. There was a leak coming from the bottom of the engine, so I replaced the drain plug. But I realized that I was missing a different bolt on the bottom. Specifically, this bolt:

I took this one from one of the 360 motors. First of all, what is this? More importantly though, the hollowed out section of this bolt is still screwed into the female end on the 250 motor, with the head of the bolt broken off and missing. So my question then is; how the hell do I get it out of there?? Should I take a small chisel and hammer to it? Pliers weren't really working too well and I'm running out of ideas. Someone please help!

Also, Hunter I would be so down to hit some trails man. I was hoping to find some once I got this badboy up and running. I'll have to hit you up when it is man.

 

[hunterkey]

any updates? i will try to check my bike for that bolt.