1982 KZ440 Turbocharged, intercooled, and fuel injected Cafe.

Nebr_Rex,
To a degree your right in your thinking. Forged and Forged billet are different. A forged billet is a block of material that is formed under pressure to create the forged billet plate. The Plate is then machined into a connecting rod, piston, or whatever is being designed. A Forged rod is a piece of metal that is beat into a shape and then machined to specifications. Just forging a rod will increase its density and strength but this process is not consitent throughout the rod. A Forged Billet rod has a uniform density and strength and has much better quality control. Plus several rods or components can be made from one plate minimizing waste material. As for the factory components I will have to double check the crank but the rods are definately not forged but actually a cast rod. The parting lines and grain structure are clearly visible on my factory rods. The ring package is a custom standard steel type ring that Ross Racing pistons guarantees to work as high as 20lbs of boost. I spoke with them about several different ring options and in the end their experience with boosted race engines lead to an agreement as to the type of ring to use. I hope this is helpful and thank you for the questions.


kz440 rods by KZsALL, on Flickr
 
Cast crank
 

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When I am wrong I am wrong. I offer my sincerest apologies to you. I would love to know how the forgining process is done to result in that. Thank you for clarifying this for me. I did find it odd that the factory manual refered to the cranks and rods as forgings but the rods "appeared" to be castings to me. Glad to know they are forged. Now my concerns about durability can be minimized. Although I am still ordering the billet rods from Crower. Modern metal composition versus 32 year old composition. Plus the rods are being lengthened from the factory 113mm center to center to 124mm center to center as well as moving from the factory 15mm pin to a 16mm pin. This will give me a rod to stroke ratio of 2:1 and drastically minimize the piston cylinder side loading. I can have this modification done only because Ross Racing pistons is making a custom 7.5:1 compression ratio forged piston for me. Custom billet rods $484 for the set, piece of mind priceless. lol
 
KZsAll said:
When I am wrong I am wrong. I offer my sincerest apologies to you. I would love to know how the forgining process is done to result in that. Thank you for clarifying this for me. I did find it odd that the factory manual refered to the cranks and rods as forgings but the rods "appeared" to be castings to me. Glad to know they are forged. Now my concerns about durability can be minimized. Although I am still ordering the billet rods from Crower. Modern metal composition versus 32 year old composition. Plus the rods are being lengthened from the factory 113mm center to center to 124mm center to center as well as moving from the factory 15mm pin to a 16mm pin. This will give me a rod to stroke ratio of 2:1 and drastically minimize the piston cylinder side loading. I can have this modification done only because Ross Racing pistons is making a custom 7.5:1 compression ratio forged piston for me. Custom billet rods $484 for the set, piece of mind priceless. lol

I hope you would reconcider your parts order.
The rod you ordered is .433 longer than stock.
There is only .675" above the wrist pin on the stock piston.

.675
-.433
-------
.242 and the bigger pin
-.019
-------
.222" for rings and ring lands
 
Well I haven't ordered them yet but I did go out and get my deck height measured. Measured the pistons, and came to the same conclusion. There is only a very minimal amount of room, as you pointed out, to increase the rod length. Obviously I could do a block spacer and increase my deck height but the factory rod to stroke ratio was 1.82:1 which is actually not bad at all. More than most likely they will just stay at the factory length. It could go into the oil ring land some but I really don't think the benefit is there. The good thing is that it is only one measurement to adjust and they haven't started on the rods yet so the change is not going to cost me anything. I know I am getting really tired of measuring and I am not even close to done with measurements. lol.
 
KZsAll said:
Well I haven't ordered them yet but I did go out and get my deck height measured. Measured the pistons, and came to the same conclusion. There is only a very minimal amount of room, as you pointed out, to increase the rod length. Obviously I could do a block spacer and increase my deck height but the factory rod to stroke ratio was 1.82:1 which is actually not bad at all. More than most likely they will just stay at the factory length. It could go into the oil ring land some but I really don't think the benefit is there. The good thing is that it is only one measurement to adjust and they haven't started on the rods yet so the change is not going to cost me anything. I know I am getting really tired of measuring and I am not even close to done with measurements. lol.

You can use the Wiseco big bore KZ750/4 piston with the stock rod.
Compression ratio comes out to around 8.2/1,69mm,1 1/2mm over,464cc.
To lower the ratio further you could cut down the ridges in the combustion chamber which will help low lift flow.
 
I appreciate the information. I thought about going the old use this from that route but decided I wanted to do a really custom one off build. Yeah custom parts are probably not the most inexpensive route by far but I wanted it designed from the ground up as a race motor. I could probably stick with the factory rods and be safe but I wanted no doubts with the expense going into the bike. Its a crazy amount of money to spend on just a 440 but I want to see just how far I can push the little guy. I will however keep that in mind for future builds. Been thinking, depending on how this one comes out, I may just get into performance 400/440 builds. Not all to this extreme but testing to see how far they can go with factory parts and proper building. Thanks for giving me the heads up.
 
Got a couple new things to update on here. I received an email from ARP today. They have a couple options that they are going to send me to see about how well the specs will match up for usability. They are also looking at doing custom manufacturing for the hardware they don't stock. The hardware won't be in the ARP2000 material but will be 8740. I really am not loosing a lot of strength changing out the hardware to the 8740 but I am going way up from the stock rating in strength. Once I receive the quote I will decide which route I will go. It will take approximately 6-8 weeks for them to get the hardware built but with all the other custom parts its not that big of a deal.
News on other fronts is I located a friend at work who has a mill, and three different lathes which I can get some of my unique parts built. The really good information is that he also has buddies that have machine equipment and one that has a 5 Axis CNC machine. So now its about to get real crazy. LOL.
I would prefer to do the machining myself but the cost of the machines added into the build would have me working on this for years and I dont want to go there. So here is the list of parts in which I will be designing, engineering, and finally have made:
Engine mounts, upper mount with integrated intercooler mount (7075 Aluminium)
Front drive pulley (7075 Aluminium)
Rear drive pulley (7075 Aluminium, 2.2 lbs versus the factory cast iron at 6.30lbs)
Front brake rotor adapters (7075 Aluminium)
Front brake calliper adapters (7075 Aluminium)
Brake master cylinder reservoir (6061 Aluminium)
Rear brake strut rod (7075 Aluminium)
Rear Sets (7075 Aluminium)
Exhaust header flanges (321 Stainless)
Turbo collector (321 Stainless)
Turbo mount flange (321 Stainless)

Well those are the items for now. Here is a little teaser of things to come. I have the CAD drawing for the Turbo Collector and Turbo Flange drawn up and almost ready to move into the 3D design stage for work on the CNC. I also have the rear sprocket designed but not complete for posting a picture but will update as soon as I finish that work out. Until then the work progresses.
 

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A few words on that belt drive. I'm happy to hear those weight figures, as I missed the chance to weigh my own. Ughhhh - I guess I should first explain WHY I can't weigh stuff anymore. Sorry - belt drive discussion after the italics:

((((((((((On the fifth of March 2013, due to a house fire, I lost everything from several years work on two projects, my own '82 DOHC Honda wire wheel project using GL1000 and KZ750B wheels, (good thing I hadn't yet ordered the wider alloy rims in 3x18 Borrani & 4.25x18 Excel, as all alloy melted into little pools) PLUS the KZ440LTD project for my Ex-Daughter's 16th birthday this coming May (we're talking about a DOHC for her too now, just to get riding) The working project title was "Sweet Sixteen" 'cause of the sweet sixteen inch rims I was putting on it front and rear. I'd long wanted to put some KZ400 wheels on the old 'LTD - though I only considered fixing it when at age eleven my lil' GRRL was intimidated by the CB750F I was working on for her 16th. With long term back problems, walking with a cane and consuming 30-40 8mg dilaudids every day for years on end, the KID was gonna have to live out my own motorcycle aspirations, and I'd live vicariously through that. It's a good thing for me she didn't like the DOHC Honda, 'cause it's changed my attitude and for a couple of years now, since seeing her innate scootering skills and dedication in reading huge texts on riding skills since I got her a 50cc for her 14th (& a 125cc Vino "for her mom" heh heh) the dream has been for us both to ride together to Writing-On-Stone THIS SUMMER.... Ugh. At least there are still second-hand bikes out there, and I've got $$$ set aside for stuff I hadn't yet bought for the two projects - ANYWAY like I just said "Sweet Sixteen Inch Rims":

(((Paranoid though it may sound, I've long held out on posting photos of these wheels to DTT out of fear that somebody ELSE gets a bike on "Bike Exif" first, by "stealing my thunder" ha ha . So far, I only talked about it anywhere online AFTER I'd bought my rims and hubs & I still worried about how slow my projects progress because of my screwed up back etc- and now I'm even more idiotic for sharing, in that I'm just now re-purchasing those same parts ha ha - PLEASE don't bid against me? At least wait until I post pics of the assembled wheels, and this time I'm shipping direct to Buchanan's! Ha ha - hopefully you all think they look too "Clown Car" for your tastes, and nobody snaps up the rims I'm buying then enters the thing in one of those "biker build off" shows on TV or something.... Naw, only I'M this fucking crazy. One would hope....)))

The front rim was a Borrani 3.00x16" flanged rim with a more boxy center drop portion parallel to the tops of the flanges, a VERY interesting rim, I got mine in NOS for around $300 and counted that as a bargain! Ha ha - Gorgeous rim, and very very light. I'd bought a pair of rear KZ650CSR & KZ1000CSR wheels (only noticing the 48 spokes when I gathered them up after stripping the wheels down and spending several hours polishing! Ha ha! I take a LOT of pain killers, I'm sure I've mentioned that in other posts. It's my standard excuse for extreme stupidity plus the snails pace of my projects over the years....) Ahem- yes the DID rims on the 'CSR wheels were easily double the weight of the Borrani. Though I didn't have my old bathroom scale anymore, and didn't get around to buying one, even though I've always been OBSESSED with the weights - my Boto-Phucket account is full of pics of comstars vs wire spoked rims on my ex GF's scale.... OKAY so you're probably wondering what the hub was? Yeah - you guys are gonna be pissed that I went into that burning house like six or seven times and didn't save this hub - a '71 GT550J four leading shoe unit. In my own defense, I didn't even get pics of my kid when she was little, or the polaroids of my first "wife" / high-school sweet-heart ... what a beautiful hub. I'm grabbing these parts over again, and just yesterday missed out on a GT750 version when I refused to bid past $680 dollars - I'm convinced that the seller's buddy was in there jacking up the price - shit, it better have been 'cause I'd hate to think they're going that high these days - bidding on one right now again, I'm in the lead but that means nothing. Found another front rim too. My Boto-Phucket, under the same handle, or my CB1100F.net posts have pics of the
...

Okay what the hell I'll post a pic of the hub and rim together just to give an idea how ridiculous this hub and rim combo looks:
Borrani3x16NOSrimGT7504LSdrumfronthub.jpg

You might think it's a real CIRCUS CLOWN CAR type of look, but she's a scooter jockey first of all and was insisting on a bigger scooter rather than a "proper" bike (I'm an old scoot jockey myself, and I kept my C70 passport right alongside my '82 CB750F just for days when I felt like two block long cat-walks, jumping off skateboard ramps, etc etc) I was TRYING to give her more of a small wheel stability, lower center of gravity, etc. Besides, I don't like the look of typical seventeen-inch rims on smaller Japanese twins. Unless they're narrower versions from smaller 125cc race bikes from the '90s - in which case there are also a few choice 16" rims anyway - most builds I've seen that used 17" three spoke rims on KZ400/440 & even other sub-750cc twins just looked disproportional. I figured the narrower 16" should give a more balanced proportional look to the build. I found a pic of an 'LTD that used 250 Ninja rims in 16 inch and I really liked it, other than that I'd wanna drop the forks down a lot lower to narrow the gap between the tire and the lower yoke. Too spindly otherwise. And again, 17" rims with fat rubber tend to make the stock 33mm fork look spindly, even the 37mm & 39mm forks on DOHC Hondas - I'd considered swapping the Hond fork onto the KZ, but instead, in the interests of weight for (wheelies hopefully, maybe possible with my spindly lil' GRRL onboard at around 100lbs or less!) I kept the 33mm fork and bought rubber boots & fork "ears" from GL1100 which I cut down to correct height for clip-ons under the yoke. Mocked up with the hub, rim, KZ400B yokes (slightly wider axle, a coupla mms) boots, ears, clip-ons, spare fork slider etc - it all looked balanced - I just didn't have a free hand for a photo ha ha - the tires should be only as wide as the rims, and not very tall at all so I visualized 'em and liked what I saw. The hub makes the rim look smaller, to be sure. But I like to think the end result would be that the rim would make the HUB look BIGGER! Right?

WHAT TIRES? You might well ask? 110/70x16 and 140/70x16 RADIAL tires, only recently made available for the new crop of Maxi-Scooters. I believe this combo exists in nature on an Aprillia BV250 or BV500 I'm not sure, but it's out there just look at maxi-scooters with a sixteen inch front then find A DIFFERENT maxi-scooter with a sixteen inch rear. Ha ha. It was a total epiphany I didn't even get the idea from the maxi-scooters themselves, as it's an idea I came up with a good four or five years ago and the 3-wheeled thing was probably the only one I'd seen on the rode thus far - but I was simultaneously shopping scooter tires AND radials to fit the DOHC in 110/80ZR18 & 160/60ZR18 when it literally slapped me in the face from the long scrolling lists of numbers - at that time, Michelin was making a dual-compound radial rear in this size, though I don't recall what it was for, or if it was even OEM on anything. Now it looks like only a few others making the low profile radials, but there are still several beautiful tires available in these sizes. Michelin Golden Standard had a cool tread, and lots of Kenda and Maxxis bias ply have a retro grid pattern too - as opposed to the Coker Fire-Stone ribbed BALLOON tires I'd prefer just about any other retro tread sixteen incher!!! Initially, I'd planned on going with KZ400 disc hub, maybe KZ650 dual disc, or MAYBE KZ400S drums front and rear - and using cheap chromed-steel chopper kit rims made for CB750, that you can still pick up with spokes for around $60 or FREE if used ha ha - one day I sat down with my ex and explained the options - one being the same floating CBR floating rotors on GL1000 hub I'd collected for my own DOHC project, and "something not as effective for braking, yet dripping with cool and nostalgia...." Her blank expression cut me off without one word. After the mother of all pregnant pauses she said "I can't believe you just said that...." So I rationalized a middle ground - the floating rotors and CBX caliper hangers on DOHC fork, some kind of custom neck stem I found some NOS Ceriani stems in several different lengths, & considered having my machinist spin down the KZ stem to DOHC specs, then using the alloy lower yoke from the European market '79 CB900F on 37mm CB750F forks etc etc - I added up all of what that would cost and the trouble of it etc, and I'd recently ogled a GT750J drum hub that had auctioned off for $650 - It was settled, I'd go the middle ground "best of both worlds" and furthermore I'd search for a good pair of alloy rims. Within five minutes of getting my first disability cheque, I went on eBay and couldn't find any 4LS hubs - but within a hear-beat I'd snapped up some alloy rims (KZ650CSR & KZ1000CSR- 48 spokes per wheel??? WHOOPS!)
and the NOS belt-drive pulleys. Got screwed on the shipping, but what-EVER. You know how it is.

SPEAKING OF WHICH: Here's a pic of the NOS belt-drive pulley (a STEAL at $150 compared to several I've seen at $400!!!) on the '75 KZ400 rear hub, but -strictly for mock-up purposes - the rim is one of the DID 48-hole ones from KZ650/1000CSR -


KZ440LTD-DBeltdrivepulleyNOSKZ-CSR3x16DIDrim.jpg



AH, BUT I DIGRESS - It's the Belt Drive I wanted to talk to you about! I'd been looking into a belt drive for the DOHC, which is why I was so happy to put one on the kid's bike. Well, that and I never wanted hear the word "JEANS" screamed in high pitch ever again, the way I used to wake up to that word all of those years, jumping up and running to the laundry room like a scrambled interceptor pilot in the Cold War ... I'd planned on a Banana seat for her "Cycle Bitch" whom I'd assumed would be her bestie, I even had them sit together and measured how much room they needed, asked the friend if her mother or aunts had a really big ass, etc etc (& of course at that time I was still involved with the kid's mother so I made some careful measurements of HER pelvis) - but yesterday I was thinking about the different merits of single seat vs dual seat vs two single seats (like the KZ440LTD that came with a split seat pan so the passenger seat was a seperate item - know the one?) And while this was going on in the left hemisphere of my brain, in the right hemisphere I was weighing the entymological origins of "Snatch Pad" & "Banana Seat", contemplating whether they BOTH referred to the passenger's genitalia ... which brought me to the realization that she may decide to carry a MALE passenger on this bike. So NOW I'm thinking of a cafe seat with a nice uncomfortable cowl on it, preferably a round one so that any hanger's on would slip down onto the tire.... Ha ha. What I oughtta do, is build a second bike ... fourth ... tenth bike? For her "Bestie" - in designing passenger pegs, seat, grab-rail for that GRRL, & her always asking how it was progressing, I realized SHE had more enthusiasm for the bike build than my own damned ... okay she's not my off-spring but you get my point. You put in seven years of direct "parenting" and you'd expect at least SOME of your MEMES would have fertilized.... (Which is better than GENES in my book.)
Ahem, yes - the BELT DRIVE on the KZ440LTD, and belt drives in general:

I'd considered one for the DOHC using pulleys made for Honda cruisers that used the same spline - I think it required a VFR three spoke rear wheel - anyway what I'd fixated upon was using a GATES INDUSTRIES belt. They supply the belt and sprockets on the Zero S electric bikes. It's got carbon nano-tube in there, rather than the fibreglas of the old KZ belts - which are all dried up and crusty anyway. What's really cool about those belts, and which relates specifically to THE QUESTION AT HAND (no, not whether this is a complete thread hi-jack!) Whether those alloy belt pulleys can be made as light as humanly possible: The Gates Industries "Poly-Chain GT Carbon" belt is just as strong as a chain in like widths. Which is why the belt on the Zero S electric bike looks like it's made for a bicycle. The even more awesome thing is, in addition to having a tooth profile which lessens the shock loading of the transition from tooth to tooth (exascerbated when using chains, it's a frequency of loading and unloading of torque with each successive link!) they also make their own pulleys AND custom splined collets. Seems like they're not too ridiculously priced, as the systems were originally designed for non-motorcycle industrial applications. But yeah, you get a splined collet for your output shaft and don't have to replace that when the pulley wears out, which is probably NEVER on a KZ400/440 ha ha - we'll all run out of spares far sooner - the rear pulleys are pre-cut and you just tell 'em your bolt hole pattern. The key here, is working with different widths of belt you've either got a belt that's three or four times as strong as a chain, or you've got a decent chain - chain and a half strength belt on a pulley that's optimized for minimum weight!

I think it's a no-brainer. I mean, yeah I considered the rear pulley's weight myself - period Kawasaki advertizing for the LTD claimed the OVERALL weight of the drive-train was better than that of a chain system. Which is to say, SLIGHTLY better. And now all of that weight is right on your rear hub. Great! Ha ha. I had a $20 hub which was heavier than the 36-spoke later era KZ440B spoked drum in the smaller LTD brake diameter etc but I saw that as a plus, in that it was a better drum and I could drill some ventillation holes in it and maybe get the weight around the same - I had already carved up the shoe plate but I'd also contemplated cross-drilling the drum lining itself, to make up for the water infiltration of a well ventillated drum - I talked to anybody and everybody who worked with brakes, and nobody had seen the technique - so I figured a couple of holes OUTSIDE the lining itself, to the left and right of it, should spin "excess" water out of the hub. And maybe just a handful of tiny holes in the lining, we'll see! But yeah, the bigger hub would be lighter than stock, hopefully approaching the weight of the 36-hole version - I'd considered finding one of each when I was looking at using both CSR rims for a spare rear wheel, but that would mean the whole brake etc - not expensive when the first hub cost me $20 and I already had the rims, just an extra set of spokes and custom rim drilling etc - but it's the WORK with all the mods, polishing etc that put me off. Besides, I really wanted that 3.50" rear which I'd been TOLD was on the KZ1000CSR - It was just a fluke really, finding a rear rim in 40-spoke count, as I was also looking at 36-spoke rims etc. The Akront 3.50x16 was such a beautifully LIGHT-WEIGHT rim it settled the whole question for me. Hard to find a rim in this spec you know - not a lot of Harley stuff even, and Buchanan's only offers "Spin Werkes" in sixteen inch, or at that time only the one brand - and only in three inch or five/six inch. It really is an odd-ball. Of course, right when I'd landed it Michelin discontinued the dual compound rear radial in sixteen, and I ALMOST went out and bought a fifteen inch rim off a used cruiser wheel. But then I thought "How would I be able to tell the difference on THIS bike?" Ha ha - the 140/70x16 bias-ply is probably more rubber than the KZ twin could shake off the road ... unless of course you're trying to do cat-walks and endos on it etc.

((((People dis' the drum brakes, but as counter-intuitive as it may may be that huge front hub is actually LIGHER than period disc brake systems, probably as light as a single disc front hub with caliper etc. You've gotta break it down as the whole brake system, right? I mean, there's rolling innertia, but then there's UN-SPRUNG weight which has more bearing on doing a wheelie - of course the 440 would probably benefit most from a dirt-bike front hub with ultra-light single rotor and single-pot caliper, maybe an entire USD dirt-bike front end. But I wanted to go "Period Correct" of course. Because the ultra-light USD fork goes best with a modern FRAME AND ENGINE dammit! Ha ha. Yes, period correctness - though there are some later KX80 triple-trees with an aluminum lower yoke that I was interested in, as well as earlier KX80/KX125 fork caps made for air assist that might have been easy to mod into adjustable pre-load end-caps etc etc. Just a brain fart, but the 33mm KX lower yoke might have made for a WIDER AXLE for this enormous hub. Which, I might add - the GT550J hub is identical to GT750J other than the lugs on the shoe plates which are basically just axle spacers anyway. I mean, they stabilize the plates I'm sure, so you'd only wanna cut 'em down so far. All I'm sayin' is, the GT550 hub is better for the smaller bikes - and smaller bikes are all I'D wanna put the 200mm 4LS hub on anyway. Even on the GT750J itself, heck if it were MINE the only drum I'd use on it would be a 250mm Fontana or Grimeca, maybe the new Smith Kanrin hub, or ideally the Yamaha TZ or Kawasaki KR500 race drums if you could find 'em - you get my point. I see the 550 drum as a perfect match for the KZ400S, KZ440LTD etc - and the 'LTD was the obvious choice to fix for my kid 'cause first of all I already HAD one (a quick fix for an upcoming trip that I swapped off a buddy for some aquarium gear which I would have turfed otherwise ha ha - I had grief with the bike but it actually stood up to a lot of abuse - both me abusing the bike and my ex abusing me into abusing the bike....))))

But damn if I wasn't throwing together a wheel with all sorts of fancy tricks just to wind up as heavy as the 2.50" x " seven spoke mag that's stock on the KZ440LTD. Lemme tell ya, my spoke order to Buchanan's was really looong - I was editing it over and over which is why the second ... no FOURTH ha ha set of rims (not counting four wheels for my old C70 Passport, which I was gonna stick the DID rims on with 12 more spoke holes in the hubs or some kinda 6x6 chopper style lacing pattern - maybe drill the heck out of the rims in classic retro AHRMA style rather than the silicone seal for tubeless ala Team Incomplete BMW style, maybe it would save more weight than the tubeless I dunno) let's call it a SIXTH OR SEVENTH set of rims - 3x18 & 4.24x18 - that didn't get burned in the fire. Money for which was still safely in my pay-pal and just stuck in my bank, from out of the wallet that also burned. Small mercy.

But yeah, like I said - due to the NOS REAR BELT DRIVE PULLEY it would be just as heavy in the end as the damned seven-spoke mag! I was seriously re-considering a chain drive, and I bought a pair of kevlar riding pants for passenger use anyway - so I could get the image out of my head of a passenger wearing new white designer jeans or something. Worried as hell about shoe-laces too, and I'm pissed that the smallest Ikon Elsinore boot is a men's size 8. WTF, do they not want money from female riders and their step-dad characters? Maybe there's a stereotype of female riders as having bigger feet? What's a women's size seven and a half in men's boots anyway?

Ah, but I digress. ALL I wanted to talk about here is the weight of those pulleys. I realize that you'd wanna make your own pulleys, I get that. Oh, and by the way GATES has all of the tooth profile measurements somewhere in their enormous site. Letters back and forth with them seemed promising, but they warned that the belt LENGTH might not be what I was looking for. But they've got these awesome little tensioners, far better than the skate-board wheel thing that the chopper guys use. Little poly wheels in good widths with raised sides to allign the belt etc - in diameters so small a skateboard wheel would look ridiculous in comparison. So it raised a couple of questions: To lengthen the swing-arm or possibly go to a DIFFERENT ALLOY SWINGARM (Mmmmmmm......) - Of course, what I'D do is talk to "JJam" in the CB1100F.net 'F-orum, he makes custom modified swingarms from your choice of used crotch-rocket parts - lots of good stuff from that guy for the past year I've been trying to save up for him to build me a 1100cc DOHC engine. (Mmmmmmm........) OR - whether to go with the tensioner on the belt. I picture something just forward of the rear pulley on the underside, just a welded-on bracket with as small of a tensioner pulley as they make. Depending on how close the belt lengths are available in. The Zero S would indicate that we're not talking about TOO different of a size. Depending on the ratio as well, of course. This is something that the Kawasaki belt doesn't do well: there are 60 tooth and 65 tooth rear pulleys available. With a 22 tooth front standard. I went with 65 because I found an NOS example for cheap, plus I wanted to sacrifice the oomph for speed. Lower case spelling in both cases, I'm afraid, 'cause we're only talking about MY old KZ440Ltd ha ha. But I was planning some good stuff for the engine down the line. Problems I'd had with it have now been clarified for me, at the time I'd taken the top end down and rebuilt it, looking for a piston lower on one side, etc. But of course, it was just the carburetor skirts with the rubber cement repairs I'd done. DUH. Anyway, I was planning on either those replacement skirts some total genius figured out, or the earlier 400 carbs (maybe slightly bored/ported out, hey?) AND I wanted to either start with the 400 lower end or the right hand case and kick-starter mechanism (with several NOS parts included) which I'd just bought (burnt! along with nice fork boots, NOS waffle grips, NOS GT750 dual cable brake perch & early style clutch perch with choke lever affixed etc etc etc - never mind all the DOHC stuff I'd modified & polished by hand -ugh) Sorry - yes in order to make a kick-start ONLY bike, with removed starter and spragg starter clutch etc - for lightened flywheel effect, etc etc - no battery would save several pounds and a good battery eliminator costs less than a good lightweight battery anyway - the overall idea being to strip as much weight from the bike overall, in order to do endos and wheelies on it with stock tuning. Well, with the lower front end maybe an endo would be possible on a first cold-drum braking effort from that 200mm 4LS, I'd sure like to find out! Ha ha. Found a clutch perch with two levers, also some brake levers the same way, some parallel other classic stuff with 90-degrees offset, I'd entertained the notion of a smaller lever on the left bar either under or over the clutch, for a rear brake cable, there are some nice brake drum actuator arms from quads that use this mechanism and have two parallel pivots for both a rod and a cable on the shoe plate. I'd kicked the idea around 'cause first of all, I wanted a shorter arm to match the shortened brake lever (on both bikes, I'd cut and telescoped then brazed on the pad just at the end of the pedal in case it broke there'd still be a lever with no pad on it - the DOHC used the pad from C70 for optimum angle) so I was already shopping for shorter arms when I found that dual brake system. Of course, you'd ask "WTF FOR?" - heh points for those who've already guessed it - Who uses shorty brake levers under their clutch? Jason Britten for one - STUNT RIDERS ha ha. What do you think, a fifty or fifty-five tooth rear sprocket on a chain-drive? I had on hand two or three sprocket carriers for both types of KZ rear hub, four lug or six lug, so I figured why not use 'em for sprocket swaps? Feel like quick city riding? Larger sprocket. Highway touring? Smaller sprocket. Either with an added length to the chain, or a different chain altogether. On the 440 I think it's especially useful, to optimize what power it's got.

Of course, the belt drive has it's own benefits, of which I'm sure you're well aware. It's more efficient, so you can look at it as one step further than a chain drive is superior to a shaft drive, in terms of power transfer to the rear wheel. Once you've already made the bike free-breathing with a pipe and jetting etc, air filter improvements etc - it's easier than a port job, and it's cheaper too - one or the other, depending on who does the porting. In the sense of a home port and polish, it's probably more effective ha ha. It would easily improve your rear wheel horsepower by 5%. Maybe more. What do they say? Shaft does around 80-85% transfer, and chain gives you 85-90%? The belt should give 90-95% then. The only thing is the weight or the cost, maybe even both. These older Kawi systems are cheaper, but heavy. Inverse for newer aftermarket stuff. It's interesting to note that they make a titanium out-put shaft for the Hayabusa that's got a different spline on it - and that spline is identical to the DOHC CB750F & CB750K, CB900F & CB1100F, certain VFR models, the RC30, a couple of Honda cruisers IIRC, the Yamaha FJ ... not sure which maybe all sizes maybe not all years ... a whole bunch of bikes. If Gates were interested in making a belt-drive package for all of the Hayabusa drag bikes out there - and it's a safe bet the Hayabusa dragsters would WANT such a belt - it would have dividends for all of those other bikes as well. Of course, like I say they make a collet for the front spline anyway, but it'd be a lot cheaper if they mass produced them. And heck, those Suzuki three-spoke wheels, lots of 'em have the same sprocket bolt pattern, so if you wanted three-spokes on your FJ or CB-F it'd be a no-brainer. Other than fixing the swing-arm length or tensioner etc. Of course, Hayabusa drag bikes tend to have stretched swingers, but Gates offers the belts in several different tooth counts anyway. It's a safe bet there are several tooth counts that would work great with certain swing-arm and rear pulley ratios etc - me I've stared at pics of the Zero S for hours on end and I figure it's gotta be about right for drive systems on most classic bikes even if there's some concessions with respect to ratios etc etc. Which makes a tensioner an obvious fix, really.

If you've already gone ahead with the Kawasaki belt/tooth profile etc - I'm curious whether the Kawi 440 belt-drive QUAD also uses the same teeth. Not sure of the length, but if it's only slightly longer it might be workable. Of course, unlike most other belt drive systems the KZ440LTD and KZ750LTD had the same slack adjusters as their chain-drive counterparts. Not really needed all that often on the belt-drive ha ha - but it could be used to some effect with fitting odd belts etc. Of course, there's always the quick fix of a slightly stretched swingarm - I've seen a few with only an inch or two stretch, usually done to fit a Honda "Seven-Fifty" to a CB750 etc - shorter alternate swingers brought up to stock length for the bike they're on.

Whaddya think the KZ440LTD could get away with? I don't think I'd ever SHORTEN the swinger. But I could see an inch or two length added. Two inches would probably change the stance so radically I wouldn't like it anymore. Of course, I have yet to see what dual sixteen inch rims and low-profile tires is gonna do to the stance, ha ha. It remains to be seen, and though I'll probably put the kid on an as-bought DOHC CB750F this summer, I still intend to fix up the 440 even if all I save of it is the frame. I hadn't done too much directly ON the bike, as I was working indoors on parts over the winter, amassing collections of parts off eBay etc - and NOW with the nice weather outside was when I'd planned to assemble the whole thing. Sub-assemblies like a polished KZ400B triple tree (wider spacing) and clip-ons with rebuilt/polished switch-pots, perches etc with my own brazed in mirror mounts in bar ends etc on an alloy mountain-bike bar that I'd cut in half (bent bars in fixed clamps: spin 'em and the drop angle as well as forward off-set are adjustable!) ahem SUB-ASSEMBLIES were ready inside to plop right onto the bike. About all I did on the bike itself in the driveway was hack off the rear signal mounts. Both fenders were swapped onto my DOHC which was going for a Sand-Cast Tribute look - anyway, THIS makes the best EVER "Before" OR "After" photos.

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I suppose I should have posted my own thread for that, but I just got into a bit of a ramble about belt drives. I suppose I got into a bit of an OBSESSION with belt drives ha ha. And now, the belt-drive is about the only part of the KZ "Sweet Sixteen" that won't carry over into the "out of the ashes" build. I realize it's POSSIBLE to find a "usable" 440 belt out there, but they're all cracked and old, and most I've seen I didn't even wanna buy for a spare under the seat for my kid to use. At around $150 each too. An NOS one would be astronomical, bid on by pretty much every 'LTD -D model owner out there, and would probably break from incorrect storage and 30+ years of oxidation anyways. So the alternative/aftermarket belt was the only viable option for me after all. I'd considered cutting new tooth profiles on some used pulleys, but then you'd still have the six and a half pounds of CAST IRON, right? Funny, I thought those 'CSR wheels were the stupid purchase I'd made that day. Ha ha.

-Sigh.
 
Man, I leave for a few months and this balls out kz comes out of nowhere haha. caught up now though can't wait to see more!
 
Sorry for the absence guys. Was dealing with some medical issue's which in the end turned out to be Fibromyalgia. Got some meds to help and they have been working well so I am back at it. So let me catch you guys up on the goings on here with the bike. Its a long work in progress as you all know with the crap load of custom parts. Alot of the engine internals are custom made and with each having to be manufactured in series to verify specs and fitment it will take quite some time to get them. In the mean time I am going to be finishing up the frame and getting it ready for paint, working more on the tank and seat plugs for the carbon/kevlar work, etc etc... Newest addition to the project is a CNC machine for the house. Have all the components planned out, software is ready, parts are almost finished modeling, and have the motor controller hardware. Making a trip to the metal store in the next couple weeks to pick up the steel for the machine. Turns out what it was going to cost me to get the turbo collector machined I can buy my own machine and have it for other parts as well. No brainer there. So as it is warming up and my energy level is returning I will be getting back into the work on the bike. This will not be a short process but I will continue to update as things progress.

I did look into the Gates belt systems and havent decided on using that or sticking with the factory $400 belt. I will investigate that further and let you guys know what I end up deciding there. Sourced a good place to buy my 7075 Aluminium for the pulleys that wasn't going to cost me an arm and a leg to buy so tooth profile is easily changed on the model in CAD. Have already generated the G-code for most of the parts and ran them through simulation to verify they will cut as advertised. Need to make a couple adjustments here and there to the code but nothing to bad. All in all things are progressing but not nearly as fast as I would like. But doing something right means doing it right once.

I will try and get back in the habit of updating more regurlarly now that I am feeling better and will keep you guys informed. Until then enjoy the spring/summer and ride the hell out of your bikes.

How about a couple renderings of the exhaust parts to come for a teaser. Need to do a little work on the headpipe design still but these will give you an idea of where I am going with the system. The little port in the top of the head pipe is for EGT. Dont like the fin design so I will be improving that. But here is the teaser.
 

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Sorry to hear about the Fibromyalgia but I'm glad it's being treated and you're feeling better. With you going all in on a CNC machine and Customize It building a machine shop in his shed/garage my head is spinning over the possibilities! I'm glad you're well and I hope to meet you soon - Cincy Mods & Rockers is only a little more than a month away!
 
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