CB360 - Penelope

[The Red Wonder]

You need to re-think the angle the rear shock is mounted, thats the position about halfway through travel.
BTW, that is the correct hole to drill.
It doesn't completely cure the cam problem but it definitely helps

What do you mean that is the position half way through the travel? As in, that is where the bike should sit when it is half way compressed? Because I can set and determine all of that with the rear swingarm...also this the beauty of drawing everything before making sparks! In that picture, the shock is fully extended. I was trying to that figure out actually, what is a standard ground clearance for one of these bikes? I never took measurements on mine when it was still together :-\ . From scaling photos of other bikes, I have come up with about 7-8 inches to the bottom frame rail from the ground, and about 4 inches from the top of the rear tire to the bottom of the rear of the frame. I was shooting for aligning the rear shock along a line from its top mount, to the rear axle when it is static.

I just calculated out the ratio, and for every 1 inch the damper compresses, the frame drops 2.1...so a rocker ratio of 2.1, which mean that the spring rate might not be too far off.

You are right in that I won't use the full travel of the shock, but it will be close enough. I figure with me sitting on it, the bike should only drop about an inch, but that is just a guess. I have no idea what the spring rate is for that shock so I can't calculate it. If anyone knows what it is, please let me know!

Can you elaborate on what you mean PJ? Thanks!

if you have access to a machine shop, why not convert the cam to roller bearings. widening those holes I figured out, decreases the flow to the bottom half of the engine, starving the bottom end, which it turns out, starts to destroy your small end bearings... with the needle rollers, the only oil needed is excess from the cam tubs, and they won't chew the head to pieces if they fail

I read your blog about that, and it is something that I have seriously considered. I saw that you had to press a steel sleeve on to the cam because the cam metal itself was too soft. When you machined those parts, did you do it with the head and the rocker box bolted together, or apart? I have a spare head and rocker box that I could try this on before committing to eating the newish head that I just bought.

Are there any parts that I am missing from the list to do this mod:
1 - 28mm OD x 22mm ID x 20mm width needle roller bearing
1 - 28mm OD x 22mm ID x 12mm width needle roller bearing
2 - Sizes?? Thrust bearings for the side to keep cam centered

Machining -
- Machine 28mm holes for cam journal needle bearings
- 28mm plug to fill the hole
- .090" from each side in head to allow larger thrust bearings

I've tried to do my homework as much as possible for this and if I find that it is all with in reason, than I will go ahead and do it!
I had actually posted a reply to the original thread of yours hoping to get some answers too, so if you could help me out, that would be great! http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=17373.10

I have been admiring your work and looking to mimic some of the mods you made, even the spare rocker box cam aligning trick! Thanks again for the help!!
Also, can you provide a little more enlightenment on what you did to help oil the center journal? I couldn't see that in any of your pics, thanks again!

 

[Hot Rod Troy]

Red,
I think you illustrated what PJ meant in your drawings. Look at the shock angles. In the lower dwg you can see that the shock is at a point where it is ready to extend again. More of a horizontal angle would work best.

 

[The Red Wonder]

Red,
I think you illustrated what PJ meant in your drawings. Look at the shock angles. In the lower dwg you can see that the shock is at a point where it is ready to extend again. More of a horizontal angle would work best.

I am still confused as to what you are trying to say by "the shock is ready to extend again"...can you elaborate? Are you saying that the shock is not being compressed linearly along its axis? Or that the application of the force is "camming" over?

In other words, when fully compressed, with a line drawn from the rear axle to the upper shock mount, that the shock should be above this line at all times?

I am trying to interpret what you are saying, but just not following.

 

[bikeboy]

excellent work with that front end.

This is going to be nice

ian

 

[jmemmert]

I think it looks good. by looking at the drawings, I don't see how it could "cam over"

 

[The Red Wonder]

Painted the engine halves today, baked one, still need to bake the other...house gets kind of stinky :-\

Pre-heating the engine for paint...it was the first day of real cold today

VHT Titanium Blue High temp engine paint. I think it should go well with the color scheme, we'll see. I like it!

Sandblasted the head and smoothed out the runners a little. There wasn't that much that needed smoothing. I had seen pictures of other Hondas that had massive steps, but there wasn't anything too crazy

Before:

After

It looks rough, but it is pretty smooth...but not too smooth, cause thats bad. It should work just fine. I pick the cylinders up tomorrow with the +2.5mm oversize pistons fitted and will drop this off to have a valve job done. Then I will most likely cut in to it to accept some needle bearings...still hoping to get some more info from Sean at Roc City about the specifics of bearings before I commit...

 

[crazypj]

Red,
I think you illustrated what PJ meant in your drawings. Look at the shock angles. In the lower dwg you can see that the shock is at a point where it is ready to extend again. More of a horizontal angle would work best.

what he said
In lower picture you can see shock angle pretty good.
The pivots don't move in a straight line but an arc, it puts things at bad angles and something will either break or bend, neither of which is a good thing.
I did a CB400F about 20 yrs ago, had to cut top mount out and completely re-do it, plus, ended up welding extensions onto swing arm to put shock more horizontal.
Worked phenomenally well after the mods

 

[The Red Wonder]

excellent work with that front end.

This is going to be nice

ian

Thanks! I am excited too! Tons of work done today...update coming later tonight...back out to the garage!

 

[Rocan]

im fucking amazed at two things...

one, your ability at using solidworks. HOLY SHIT MAN! do you do it for a living?


two, you sandblasted the mating surfaces of the cases, as well as the valve seats... EVERYTHING...

wont that cause sealing problems? wont valve seats be totally fucked?

my understanding was to tape all that shit up! dont tell me ive been wasting my time...

 

[rockcitycafe]

i'd wonder how the sandblasting affects the valve seats...

 

[The Red Wonder]

Thanks for the input guys, and I hope that I know what I'm doing...

im fucking amazed at two things...

one, your ability at using solidworks. HOLY SHIT MAN! do you do it for a living?


two, you sandblasted the mating surfaces of the cases, as well as the valve seats... EVERYTHING...

wont that cause sealing problems? wont valve seats be totally fucked?

my understanding was to tape all that shit up! dont tell me ive been wasting my time...

Thanks man, I just graduated school with my Mech Eng degree...I was in the Formula SAE program at my school, and we modeled the WHOLE car in SW (detailed engine model included)... I've been using Solidworks for a solid 6 years now...its get soo much easier with time, not that it is too hard to learn, but you just learn how to use it to it's full potential.

Well I hope that the cases will be fine with a proper amount of Hondabond. If anything, I would think that/ hope that the rougher surface has now given the Hondabond a better surface to creep into/ bond to.

I am going to blast the cylinders tomorrow and prep them for paint and I will for sure tape those off, I should have blasted them before having them bored... :-\ ooooo well.

i'd wonder how the sandblasting affects the valve seats...

Valve seats just got recut today, along with the valves, thats why I wasn't too worried about those. :

I have not done the lacquer thinner check to see if they seal, they will probably need some lapping, but that is for tomorrow.

Keep those comments coming, I don't always know what I am doing, so this is helping me learn!

And roc city cafe, any numbers for the thrust washers you used on the cam when you did the needle bearing swap?

 

[The Red Wonder]

Got a good deal accomplished today

I got the cylinders back from the machine shop with the +2.5mm pistons fitted along with the head and a fresh valve job

the "0.5" stamped on the pistons is on top of the +2mm oversize they are

PRETTTTY!

Pressed out the old races for the steering stem and pressed in the new All Balls kit:

Looks a little deep, and it was, so I had to cut the frame down a little so that the bearings on the stem would actually contact the race. I will need to figure out a new system for the steering stops too, as I had to cut the stock tab off to shorten the frame up around the stem.

I was also able to machine the spacer for the front wheel:

I thought the scrap material I found was pretty awesome. The Baja SAE team that our Formula team shared a shop with made their own drivetrain last year this little piece was a scrap cut off of a gear...so it has it's own "Browning" gears stamp on it, as well as a serial number....HAHA ;D

Soooooo we put all of these pieces together and get this!!!!!

These pictures have me pretty excited! I can't wait to see this build all the way through.

This bike has given me new inspiration for my rear suspension as well as some "fun" exhaust routing:

Source: http://www.bikeexif.com/ducati-350

 

[arsey]

such a beautiful name.. peenie loap.

I was in EE school for a bit; this sorta makes me wish I had tried mechanical instead
bike looks awesome with just the front end, keep up the work!

 

[diesel450]

Mad skills man! Really nice work! I also like the liberal use of wide angle lens!

so, easy off on aluminum, huh? I'll give that a try!!

 

[The Red Wonder]

such a beautiful name.. peenie loap.

I was in EE school for a bit; this sorta makes me wish I had tried mechanical instead
bike looks awesome with just the front end, keep up the work!

Thanks man! I wish I had some EE skillz...I have been talking with some guys that are still in school (EEs) about helping me with a project for this bike that includes lots of LEDs and some fancy wiring, I hope I can make it work ;D

Mad skills man! Really nice work! I also like the liberal use of wide angle lens!

so, easy off on aluminum, huh? I'll give that a try!!

Thanks! It is a fish eye lens, on my Sony NEX-5. Awesome setup, I 100% recommend this camera to anyone!

One thing to look out for with the Oven Cleaner is that it leaves a nasty surface finish. I kind of wish I hadn't used that to remove the anodizing actually. Last night, one of the bolts in the top tripple clamp got stuck and when I finally got it out, some aluminum (I'm guessing that had been weakened by the Easy Off) got lodged in the threads of the bolt and pulled out lots of the other threads with it I should still be able to use the part and if I have to, I will use a Heli-coil.

 

[The Red Wonder]

such a beautiful name.. peenie loap.

I was in EE school for a bit; this sorta makes me wish I had tried mechanical instead
bike looks awesome with just the front end, keep up the work!

Thanks man, I love it too, close to how I always say it in my head...I like "PEA-nay-loww"

 

[thompsonmx100]

Looks good. I think there is supposed to be a spacer under that bearing race. But problem solved either way. That inspiration bike is pretty cool i like the eccentric lower shock mount.

 

[The Red Wonder]

Looks good. I think there is supposed to be a spacer under that bearing race. But problem solved either way. That inspiration bike is pretty cool i like the eccentric lower shock mount.

Hmmm...well I had to cut the original stock bearing race off of the stem so that this one could press on. There wasn't anything provided with the All Balls kit...so o well, its on

The guy who made that bike really thought it through. The only reason he put the eccentric on the shock mount was to counter the changes (if any) made by the eccentric chain tensioner holding the rear axle. I mean, the change in ride height from the chain tensioner would be minimal but he went to all lengths to ensure that bike stays where he wants it...pure genius/ overkill!

 

[JRK5892]

man she is coming right along! i am really diggin this so far!

 

[Slice]

I have a feeling this build is one I should watch closely... got a good feeling its going to turn out nice!
-Slice