CB360T problems

[Cramer]

I am rewiring a 76 CB360T and have run into an issue.

First of all my right hand control does not have a headlight on/off switch, and had 5 wires going to it. A blk and blk/w for the kill switch, and a blk and Ylw/r for the start button, and a blk/r to kill the headlight when the starter is engaged.

I connected 12V to the blk for the kill switch and then the blk/w to the ignition coils, kicked it over and it started. That was great but then I decided to wire in the starter solenoid.........I connected the ylw/r to the coil on the starter solenoid. I also connected 12V to the other side of the solenoid coil. As my diagram shows, and now when I turn the key on the starter engages. Does the other blk for the start button go to ground, how do I keep the ylw/r from being hot when the key is on?

 

[Turnturtle]

The y/r is hot when the key is on. The starter switch grounds out to the bars, completing the circuit. It sounds like the switch isn’t working correctly. Disconnect the y/r and check the switch with a multi meter. You should have continuity only with the button pushed. Black wires are hot on Honda’s. Connect it to ground and bad things will happen.

 

[Cramer]

Hey man thanks! Yeah I have a feeling I may have wired the button itself wrong. I had to replace it with an aftermarket. I’m going to tear back into it tomorrow.

 

[Cramer]

So the three wires going to the start button should be a black and a black/red for 12v to the headlight, they yellow/red for the starter coil. And then the switch itself grounds to the housing right?

 

[irk miller]

Please explain what you mean by "coil on the starter solenoid". Your starter is controlled by a relay. The solenoid is on the motor itself. Your relay is an electromagnetic switch with two poles- one to battery and one to the starter motor. The relay operates when power crosses the red/yellow to black circuits to pop the switch and allow direct battery power to the starter motor. You should have the battery positive and reg/rec red wire to one post on the relay and the other going to the starter motor. Red/yellow to your handlebar switch and black to your switched 12v circuit, which itself is ungrounded. There are a few scenarios that cause your issue, including what Turnturtle suggests.

 

[Cramer]

yes I was calling the relay a solenoid, and the yellow/red and 12V switch wires were what I was referring to as the “coil” that energized the relay.

 

[raptormeat]

buy this. read instructions. really helps to leave light off when starting up on weak battery.

Welcome to Common Motor Collective - Vintage Honda Motocycle Parts, Information, Support

www.common-motor.com

 

[Cramer]

Ok I did some more testing. The start button works as it should, based on checking the continuity across those three wires. But somehow when I run 12V to my controls, I get 12V going to the yellow/red wire. The headlight cuts out when the button is pressed, but yellow/red are hot all the time, maybe the switch is bad? It’s one I wired in from radio shack based on another thread I found on here about a broken starter switch. At this point I may just put it back together as a kick only and then order a new control like raptormeat suggested. Thanks guys!

 

[Cramer]

Also can you guys explain how the main switch functions? It seems like I only get 12V to the black wire on the main switch when it is in the middle position?

 

[irk miller]

The black wires are "switched" power, which means you complete the circuit when you put the ignition key into the correct position. The yellow/red wire is technically switched too, but really it completes a circuit with the black circuit at the starter relay. The black wires all have 12v positive, but the circuit itself is ungrounded. Each item it powers is individually grounded, which allows power to flow to that part. You ground the starter when you push the starter button. If your starter wants to run regardless of whether you are pushing the starter button or not, that means you have grounded the starter somewhere. It could be in your handlebar switch. It could be somewhere else.

 

[raptormeat]

yeh red/yellow should not have any voltage until you press the button that sounds like a short in your solenoid. im guessing starter doesnt work or we havent gotten that far to diagnose but probably bad solenoid. switch couuld be grounding inside handlebar, but doubt it.

 

[irk miller]

yeh red/yellow should not have any voltage until you press the button that sounds like a short in your solenoid. im guessing starter doesnt work or we havent gotten that far to diagnose but probably bad solenoid. switch couuld be grounding inside handlebar, but doubt it.

The issue is that the starter goes off when he turns on the key, which probably means something is wired wrong. I wouldn't assume bad parts until wiring is confirmed correct.

 

[Cramer]

yeh red/yellow should not have any voltage until you press the button that sounds like a short in your solenoid. im guessing starter doesnt work or we havent gotten that far to diagnose but probably bad solenoid. switch couuld be grounding inside handlebar, but doubt it.

The starter works, it just runs constantly.

 

[Cramer]

The issue is that the starter goes off when he turns on the key, which probably means something is wired wrong. I wouldn't assume bad parts until wiring is confirmed correct.

I rewired it last night and get the same result. When testing continuity of the starter button wires themselves, the button functions as it should. But I tested it when I connect 12V to the black wires and the yellow/red is hot anytime the key is switched on.

 

[Cramer]

Ok so I will follow raptormeats advice and get a new switch, I am fairly certain that’s where my problem is. Now I have another question about the main switching. It seems I only have spark when the key is in the second position, and my brake light works in the second position, but my tail light only comes on in the third position. My wiring diagram shows the brown/white from the main switch going to the tail light fuse, then a brown/blue going to my right control. What does that have To do with the tail light, and I don’t have a brown/blue at my controls? There has to be something I am missing that will tie it all together, but I am at a loss. Send help.

 

[raptormeat]

if ur certain theres an issue in the kill switch dont chase anything else up until thats fixed, (whatver is happening it sounds like black circuit and yellow/red circuit are connected somhow they shouldnt be).
your key/ignition switch is probably fine, but easy to test continuity on that.
power goes from batter (red) through ignition switch to black, that goes to kill switch/ then everything, coils (black/white), headlight (brown/white), and the brown/blue connects into black/red.
if u wire it exactly as shown in the diagram i originally posted above u should be golden. totally typical gremlin to have continuity with a tester, only to short out when some real wattage runs through switch.
happens on the points cover and the left point, which is reason #100 why u should get e-ignition. Black, Black/Red, and Blue/Brown should ALL CONNECT together, either inside the OEM switch, or outside. i have my blue/brown going into my black circuit. i dont think it matters if blue/brown is connected to black or black/red since they all connect eventually one way or another.

 

[raptormeat]

This will help too. It makes it more clear those 3 (black, black/red, and brown/blue) all should connect in the switch, or on the way to it like in the common motor diagram. BUT (this is important), look at the starter button on this diagram below, he's using the OEM switch, and its supposed to just ground THROUGH THE HANDLEBARS on OEM switch locating pin for the starter button circuit, wheras on your new one, it will ground through green/red (from switch) wired into any green wire/frame ground somewhere.

 

[Cramer]

Ok so part of the issue may be that I don’t have a brown/blue wire at all. I have a black and black/white for the kill switch, and then a black and black/red for the headlight and the yellow/red for the starter. So right now I have my TL wired directly to the brown wire from the main switch. The black/red is tied together through the starter button for the headlight. So if I just wire the TL to black it should work when everything else does, but then I am still not tying anything in to the brown or brown/white from the main switch. What is the difference between second and third positions on the main switch? Or are you saying that the brown and brown/white at the main switch both need to be tied to black?

 

[irk miller]

What do you mean by the black/red tied through the starter button? The yellow/red should go from the starter button to the starter relay. No other wire should be attached to the starter button, nor should that wire be attached to any other circuit. Otherwise, you will have constant 12 volt power, since it's ground to the handlebar. This would make your starter go off every time you turn your keyswitch on.

 

[Cramer]

The button I am using has a C, NO, and NC terminals. So I have 12V going to C, and the black/red going to NC and the yellow/red going to NO, so that when I press the button, it cuts out the headlight. And now that I type that out I realize that I am trying to send 12V from the starter button when what I need is for it to go to ground. And since it is getting 12V from the black wire going to the coil, that means that it is grounded through the switch by default, so no matter what position the switch is in, the relay is getting 12V...........does that make sense?