Cb450 new coil. Weak spark!

Big Rich said:
Get yourself a wiring diagram and start from the plugs and work your way back. You do need a kill switch (or at least power to the coils).
Click to expand...

I have one...
What you don't understand is that I had spark before... now I don't... Its not the plugs, it not the coils... (Don't think so) so it could be the dyna-s that fried. I could change it back to point. What I'm thinking now... is that not all my electric system is wired up... should I wire all the cable (Flasher, horn etc) or it doesn't mater? Thats why i'm inquiring about what needs to be plugged it to have a spark.
 
So you have a wiring diagram- do you have a multimeter? It could be any number of things stopping the spark. That's why I said test each part of the system.
 
Big Rich said:
So you have a wiring diagram- do you have a multimeter? It could be any number of things stopping the spark. That's why I said test each part of the system.
Click to expand...

:( I HATE ELETRIC SHITTTSSS!!! Give me mecanical stuff and I'll sort it out...

:( I don't know how to use a multimeter and I have 2 units!!!! :( How can I test the system...
 
If you connected the DYNA S back to front you may have fried it.

To test it, I'd suggest that you disconnect all the existing wiring to the coil and to the dyna and mark it all so you remember where it came from. Take a bunch of wires and connect the DYna to the coil and to the battery as shown in the DYNA installation guide and then rotate the rotor (kick the motor over or take out the drive pin and spin the rotor on its shaft. You should get a fat blue spark at the plug as long as it's all grounded.

Another possibility is that the rotor has to be in just the right place in terms of depth so that the magnet triggers the circuit. If you moved the rotor and it's now too deep or too far out, it may not be triggering.

I fried a modules recently when i was wiring the bike up and I managed to get one connected back to front. No blue smoke bit that one was dead from that day on.

What did you change form the day it was running to the day it died - what changed?
 
I found this
http://www.webgrafex.com/roundcase/ducati/Electrickery.html[ half way down the page are DYNA's instructions

This may help if you don't have one. It was on a forum, so you can ignore the questions the OP added.

dynasbadinstall.jpg
 
No offensive but try Hondatwins.net those guys know everything about these 450's no offensive to anyone one on this site, there are lots of smart people on here, but honda twins is more specialized.
My .02
 
teazer said:
If you connected the DYNA S back to front you may have fried it.

To test it, I'd suggest that you disconnect all the existing wiring to the coil and to the dyna and mark it all so you remember where it came from. Take a bunch of wires and connect the DYna to the coil and to the battery as shown in the DYNA installation guide and then rotate the rotor (kick the motor over or take out the drive pin and spin the rotor on its shaft. You should get a fat blue spark at the plug as long as it's all grounded.

Another possibility is that the rotor has to be in just the right place in terms of depth so that the magnet triggers the circuit. If you moved the rotor and it's now too deep or too far out, it may not be triggering.

I fried a modules recently when i was wiring the bike up and I managed to get one connected back to front. No blue smoke bit that one was dead from that day on.

What did you change form the day it was running to the day it died - what changed?
Click to expand...

Ok and how should I connect the dyna-s to test it? ...
 
The link I posted included the Dynatech approach to testing.

You could also connect a power lead to the coils and to the dyna red lead and connect the other side of the coils directly to the dyna as shown in that diagram and turn the rotor. It should spark to ground from the end of the HT lead (pull the plug and cap off for this test). Don't leave them connected to power for long though as you will cook the coils.

But what did you change from when it ran to now or did it not ever run?
 
teazer said:
The link I posted included the Dynatech approach to testing.

You could also connect a power lead to the coils and to the dyna red lead and connect the other side of the coils directly to the dyna as shown in that diagram and turn the rotor. It should spark to ground from the end of the HT lead (pull the plug and cap off for this test). Don't leave them connected to power for long though as you will cook the coils.

But what did you change from when it ran to now or did it not ever run?
Click to expand...

Never ran... lots of upgrades... :( Anyway i'll give it a try and see if she spark... if not then dyna-s is gone :(
 
Joe, if it never had a good spark, then I think that either teh Dyna is bad or there's some bad connections. Here's some simple things to check.

Start with the lead that supplies power to the red DYNA lead. Test for volts from that lead to ground with the switch ON.

Then go to the coils. One side is connected to teh DYNA and the other should be power. Locate that lead and test for volts between there and ground.

Both tests should be 12v or so.

If one or other of those tests is less than say 11.5v, there's a bad connection in the system. My ghetto way to clean switches like the kill switch and ignition switch is to spray lots of WD40 in as you switch it on and off. (best without the battery in system) That is often enough the clean the surfaces.

Check and clean the ground for the battery and try running a lead from an engine bolt to a clean point on the frame and see if that improves things.

Can you give me a link to your build and DYNA fitting threads so I can see if there's anything obvious.
 
On most bikes, when your checking for spark, best thing to do is remove plug cap and jamb lead between fins.
It gives you about a 4mm gap and no resistance (other than gap)
If you have a spark it will be in the 10~15,000 volt range, may not be high enough to spark in combustion chamber but will tell you if things are connected right and working.
Primary peak voltage will be lower than expected if you have any specs for it (and peak volt adapter)
It's also a good idea to have a voltmeter on battery while testing, voltage shouldn't drop too quick (even with lights on) but any faults will cause battery voltage to drop fast
 
Re: Re: Cb450 new coil. Weak spark!

crazypj said:
On most bikes, when your checking for spark, best thing to do is remove plug cap and jamb lead between fins.
It gives you about a 4mm gap and no resistance (other than gap)
If you have a spark it will be in the 10~15,000 volt range, may not be high enough to spark in combustion chamber but will tell you if things are connected right and working.
Primary peak voltage will be lower than expected if you have any specs for it (and peak volt adapter)
It's also a good idea to have a voltmeter on battery while testing, voltage shouldn't drop too quick (even with lights on) but any faults will cause battery voltage to drop fast
Click to expand...
Great thanks for advice. Do you have a pic of the actual lead jammed in the fins?

Sent from my Nexus One
 
most aircooled bikes have around 6mm between cylinder fins. (most wo stroke MX bikes more for mud clearance)
Most leads are 7mm, never took a picture of it
 
I just went back to your thread to check out that dyna install. Before I get to that though,
what are the coils resistances?
Are you still running the cap or is there a battery in system now?
What are the Leads - copper core or resistance (carbon filament)?
What is the plug cap resistance - 5k (LB05) or zero?

A good way to check the spark as PJ mentioned is to simply remove the plug cap and take the raw HT lead and jam it between a couple of head fins. Or go to your local auto repair shop and pick up a pair of ignition testers. One end goes into the plug cap and the other end clips to a fin. Adjust teh gap and watch teh big fat blue sparks.

PB140001.JPG


I'd fit a battery in place of the capacitor if you haven't already tried that.

I can't see from your photos but there are several different DYNA rotors. One difference is magnet placement. Some are close to the outside edge and some are further in. The one you have looks like it's too far out but that may be an optical illusion of course. Just to test that theory, loosen the backing plate screws and place an 1/8" thick spacer under the plate to move the pickups out relative to the magnet. There's a raised porting on the inner face of each pickup and it does not extend all teh way out. The magnet must be over that raised lump.

When you look at it, it will be clear what I mean.
 
teazer said:
I just went back to your thread to check out that dyna install. Before I get to that though,
what are the coils resistances?
Are you still running the cap or is there a battery in system now?
What are the Leads - copper core or resistance (carbon filament)?
What is the plug cap resistance - 5k (LB05) or zero?

A good way to check the spark as PJ mentioned is to simply remove the plug cap and take the raw HT lead and jam it between a couple of head fins. Or go to your local auto repair shop and pick up a pair of ignition testers. One end goes into the plug cap and the other end clips to a fin. Adjust teh gap and watch teh big fat blue sparks.

PB140001.JPG


I'd fit a battery in place of the capacitor if you haven't already tried that.

I can't see from your photos but there are several different DYNA rotors. One difference is magnet placement. Some are close to the outside edge and some are further in. The one you have looks like it's too far out but that may be an optical illusion of course. Just to test that theory, loosen the backing plate screws and place an 1/8" thick spacer under the plate to move the pickups out relative to the magnet. There's a raised porting on the inner face of each pickup and it does not extend all teh way out. The magnet must be over that raised lump.

When you look at it, it will be clear what I mean.
Click to expand...

Thanks for all the adivice! Now update on my problem.

I've checked with my multimeter and the actual ground where my dyna is plugged in is wrong.

When I turn my key off and I check the ground with the + on the battery, I got 12.66v... WTF! and when I turn it on I get 00.01v... anyone have some idea to help me pinpoint the problem?

Thanks!
 
If I understood you correctly, you connected one side of the meter to the DYNA ground and the other to battery + and you got 12.66v which is correct - you are measuring battery to any frame ground, so that's fine. Turn the ignition on and voltage drops to zero makes no sense to me at this time. That would be a dead short condition. Am I understanding you correctly or did I misunderstand something in your description.?

Please tell us how the dyna pickups are connected. Each pickup should have a RED lead connected to switched 12V. The BLUE/WHITE/BLACK/YELLOW leads connect to the coils and the other side of the coils is also connected to switched 12V. Capacitors should be out of circuit completely. Is that how yours is wired?

BTW a couple of pictures of what you are testing might shed some light.
 
teazer said:
If I understood you correctly, you connected one side of the meter to the DYNA ground and the other to battery + and you got 12.66v which is correct - you are measuring battery to any frame ground, so that's fine. Turn the ignition on and voltage drops to zero makes no sense to me at this time. That would be a dead short condition. Am I understanding you correctly or did I misunderstand something in your description.?

Please tell us how the dyna pickups are connected. Each pickup should have a RED lead connected to switched 12V. The BLUE/WHITE/BLACK/YELLOW leads connect to the coils and the other side of the coils is also connected to switched 12V. Capacitors should be out of circuit completely. Is that how yours is wired?

BTW a couple of pictures of what you are testing might shed some light.
Click to expand...

No capacitor installed at all.

Red lead shoud be connected to power on ignition or to the ground?... I have them on the black cable witch is the ground. It should be on the white/black cable? :(

Thanks! Dyna is connected to coils.

You are right, voltage drop to zero but thats from the + of the battery to the red cable of the dyna or ground. So when key is on! I have no ground on the back cable. When the key is off... I have 12v on ground.. :( I'm all messed up.

Just confirm that the red cables from DYNA should be connected to the white and black which would be the power on iginiton.
 
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