CL360 rescue

[drummingpariah]

Hey guys, now that my xs650 is running and reliable, I need to keep myself from going hog-wild on it and putting it out of commission.

... so I'm picking this up tonight for $650:

The clutch (or possibly clutch cable?) is completely kaput, it only engages at the very END of the lever travel. The kickstarter does nothing, but the electric start works fine, and it idles, revs, and rides fine (with the exception of the dead clutch). The 360 isn't a bike most people are in love with, and doesn't have the classic following that the 350 does, and this one's already a bit hacked so I don't feel bad about chopping it up into a lean, fun little machine. I've looked around to find out what the actual differences between the 350 and 360 are, and all I can find is a bunch of whining about how "the 350 was superior and perfect in every way and the 360 changed things that didn't need changing" ... but I don't have any specifics. Anyone who can shed some light on this with hard facts would have my thanks. I understand that the head design differs somehow, it's almost 20cc difference in combustion chambers, the frame has some differences of some kind, and the 360 has a 6speed while the 350 has a 5speed.

Right now, the goal is to have my girlfriend use it for parking lot practice, then replace the clutch, fix the kicker, delete the electric starter, and put some good rubber under it. I might put clubman/ace bars on it and rear sets, but the stock lines really aren't bad on this little guy.

The paint job is pretty low-quality, it looks like someone brushed acrylic paint on it to dress it up. I don't really care at this point, but once it's mechanically solid I'll probably start to notice.

 

[jrswanson1]

Nice. The handlebars on my 74 are chrome with a cross bar, the wiring goes through the handle bars. You can bump the displacement up to 383cc.

 

[drummingpariah]

Picked it up last night (in a "tropical storm") and rode it home without any issues.

I'll take some more photos throughout the day, and expect to get through a fair amount of teardown.

Nice. The handlebars on my 74 are chrome with a cross bar, the wiring goes through the handle bars. You can bump the displacement up to 383cc.

It looks like some of my wiring goes through the handlebars as well, just like on my friend's cb350. I'm just going to stick with these bars for awhile since swapping them is such a hassle, I kind of like them anyway.

 

[frogman]

As far as differences between 350/360s very few parts for the engine interchange. Even those CL pipes will not swap back and forth.

The frames are different, the swingarms are different.

Now, the front suspensions will change out if you trade the later year 350s. Wheels and tires are the same more or less. Handlebars may or may not fit depending on models. Shocks are the same. Some of the electrics are the same.

Clutch issue just sounds out of adjustment. Kicker might require a tear down depending on what its action is.

Looks like a decent bike for the money.

 

[drummingpariah]

I have more info!

I pull the right cover and had a look around. The first thing I noticed was that the gasket is new and seems to have some extra material (baffle, perhaps?) toward the front of it, and less than 1l of oil came out of the entire engine (after hopping on and leaning it toward the right side). I believe that could be a part of my clutch woes, because (correct me if I'm mistaken) wet clutches depend on oil to engage.

I realized that I have no idea how I'm supposed to measure these clutch disks for wear, so I just snapped a photo instead:

I re-adjusted the clutch, and got the best engagement possible, but that was still extremely slippery. Something is actually wrong, and I'm hoping it's just low oil.

Spinning the kicker by hand with the right cover off rotated the clutch but NOT the drive gear attached to it. I have no idea what that actually indicates, if anything (a quick look at the parts diagram on bike bandit just told me it was a more complicated mechanism than I had assumed). My Clymer manual is on its way to me, but right now I'm flying by the seat of my pants and didn't want to dig too deep into this (there were too many springs holding everything together to fill me with confidence).

General photo, in case anything looks wrong that I wouldn't immediately notice:

The battery's on the charger, and I'll get more info later tonight or tomorrow when I have more to work with.

frogman, thanks for the overview. That's really all I needed to know (for now), you've given me enough to be able to hunt down the specifics if I need them.

 

[frogman]

Here's a link to a PDF version of the Honda Shop manual. It's 100 times better than the Clymer. It's a pretty big file so may take a bit to download.

http://198.57.59.10/manuals/360/Honda_CB250_CB360_CL360_CJ250T_CJ360T_Shop_Manual.pdf

It has all the specifications and tolerances and torque values and what ever else you need to know to keep the bike running well.

The clutch issue is likely your kicker issue, if the kicker shaft spins some of the clutch but not the back half then the clutch is disengaged or slipping badly. There is a procedure for adjusting the actuator mechanism in the sprocket cover, follow the manual to a T for it. Clutch plates can be bought all day long on ebay or MC sites on the net.

 

[drummingpariah]

That manual (and a day of tinkering) did it. Runs and rides perfectly. The other end of the clutch cable was adjusted as wrong as it could've been. I couldn't have had a better time riding it up and down the block correctly. I'll get it registered tomorrow, and with some new tires it should pass inspection without any problems.

 

[frogman]

Good deal!

 

[drummingpariah]

First real ride
I just took it for a proper throttling around the neighborhood (not through, as that would be annoying for my neighbors this late). I was already planning to get new tires because these are a bit dry-rotted and tires are something I REALLY don't want to skimp on ... but after going for a spirited ride, I'm convinced that I also need to upgrade to stickier rubber. I managed to lock both the front and rears several times. I'm looking at 90/90-18 and 100/90-18 Michelin Pilot Activ Sports, because they're some of the only modern tires I can find that will fit. Any feedback on that size, or those tires specifically (or better recommendations) are much appreciated. I expect lots of low-speed hard-input riding in the near future, if I can get more than 5k miles out of $250 worth of tires this summer I'll be ecstatic.

Phillip is a dick
I had to cut my ride short because (as I often say) "phillip is a dick." All the phillips cover screws were stripped, and I had a fairly hard time tightening them down again, so there was still a bit of an oil leak on the right side cover. So, I headed home, broke out the vise grips, and did the best I could to crank it down to take it to work tomorrow. New allen bolts are already coming in, so it's just a stopgap for a few days.

More updates to come as the week goes on!

 

[drummingpariah]

The cl360 is running great. There were some issues with the battery's positive strap screw during a shakedown run last night, but I sorted that out in short order. I also decided to zip tie all the electrical gear down that resides under the seat, and that seems to be an improvement in every direction. My friend Laurie had agreed to go on a proper ride this weekend, and we set out this morning. It was the first time she had gone over 30mph on a bike, and it was a pretty awesome experience overall.

She was dealing with carb issues all day, and it seems like her mains are way too rich and bog the engine down at WOT. For a first-time rider, that's a big confusing problem to have, and it led to some (understandable) frustration. Somewhere around 100 miles into the ride, she got into the groove and started to feel the bike out, and the remaining 50 miles or so went swimmingly. I expect to get a call from her this week to help walk her through rebuilding her carbs over the weekend.

As for the cl360, I really can't complain about anything. I'd like a better foot position, and I rotated the handlebars a little so I could keep my elbows bent a bit more in a comfortable riding position. My tires should terrify me, and both are trivial to lock up under hard braking. I ordered some replacements at a local shop, but don't know/care what brand they were (I'm just trusting him to get this bike to pass inspection and not waste my time/money on getting an ideal tire yet). One of the bulbs in my directionals decided it was time to explode, and I couldn't find a replacement at Advance Auto so I just stuck with hand signals for the rest of the day. The electric starter also gave up on me, which was a non-issue since I only ever use the kicker (it's just satisfying to kick a bike to life). Also, the scrambler exhaust is FAR less of an inconvenience than I had expected it to be. I can rest my leg against it without any fire/melting, and that's a huge win in my book.

Tire selection
I've started researching different rim sizes that I could fit on here, so I have a better tire selection, but I've had a hard time coming up with any firm data. I'd really like to just swap out the rims, spokes, and tires, but without swapping forks/brakes/swingarm/etc my options are pretty limited. More research is required. For now, I'll just stick with the tires my local mechanic ordered (should come in this week).

Grips
I didn't wear gloves today, and realized just how horrible the grips that came on the bike are. They simply need to be replaced ... but with what?

No tach
I assume I have a good feel for the bike, but really don't know how high I'm revving it. I have no baseline to compare to, and simply going by sound could indicate that I'm shifting at 6k or 10k (I really can't tell). Is it normal for cl360's to come without a tach?

Seat
The seat I have on there isn't horrible, but it's nothing to write home about either. It wobbles a lot, isn't particularly comfortable, and leans over to the left. I haven't seen too many compelling aftermarket options, and I'm not even sure what I'd like instead of this (yet) but it's on the to-do list for sometime in the future.

Overall, it was a fantastic day. I had no issues, and assuming my odometer is close-ish, I averaged around 110mpg over this trip (mostly low-speed cruising around 40mph). That sounds pretty fantastic to me, especially with pod filters. I'll have to look into that math some more, and test my speedo with a GPS, but I'm definitely encouraged. This might just be the best $650 I've ever spent.

 

[drummingpariah]

Not a big update, but I ordered a new fuel tank that I can recondition off the bike, am getting my tires mounted up on Saturday, and have new grips coming in.

Does anybody know where I can find the kickstarter detent screw that keeps it from swinging out? mine was all munged up and doesn't do its job any more.

 

[edukaycheon]

Enjoyable read, and also it looks like you have a decent camera and know how to use it Will follow with interest

 

[drummingpariah]

Sorry for the lack of recent updates, I've been busy using this as my daily driver since picking this up. I have a big box of parts that I could install, but really don't want to take it off the road while riding is still a possibility. We just published a feature on it recently on Driven Daily:
http://drivendaily.org/humble-honda-cl360/

We're definitely looking for other daily/utility/commuter motorcycles (especially older bikes) to feature, if you (or anyone you know) are interested in being featured, shoot me a PM or email at jesse@drivendaily.org

Head Noise
I've been chasing down a head-noise issue while riding it. It doesn't get loud until the bike has warmed up, and seems isolated to the right cylinder. I haven't adjusted the valves yet (I only have one set of feeler gauges right now, and don't want to bend them up), but I think that's the most likely culprit. I also need to order a manual for this, since I don't see a 'standard' cam chain tensioner on the back of the jugs. Based on a little bit of searching on the inter-webs, it seems to be a big design flaw with the 360's, but I hope to have an update on that after this weekend.

I'm hoping to ride out to Mt Ascutney in Vermont on this next weekend to work a safety corner for a hillclimb event (super excited about that). This will be my first hillclimb event, which is what I'm building my Datsun 240z for (next season). If it still has this head-rattle though, I may have to take the car or possibly my xs650 instead.

 

[frogman]

Head Noise
I've been chasing down a head-noise issue while riding it. It doesn't get loud until the bike has warmed up, and seems isolated to the right cylinder. I haven't adjusted the valves yet (I only have one set of feeler gauges right now, and don't want to bend them up), but I think that's the most likely culprit.

Feeler gauges are pretty tough, I've used the same set for about 5 years now. Don't have to bend them per-say just fit them in place.

I also need to order a manual for this, since I don't see a 'standard' cam chain tensioner on the back of the jugs. Based on a little bit of searching on the inter-webs, it seems to be a big design flaw with the 360's, but I hope to have an update on that after this weekend.

That's because the "STANDARD" cam chain tensioner adjustment is on the FRONT of the crankcase. There are plenty of shop manual links on the interwebs for download, I know of at least 2 on Honda twins and I think at least one here. ANY other manual than a Honda manual is garbage.

 

[drummingpariah]

Feeler gauges are pretty tough, I've used the same set for about 5 years now. Don't have to bend them per-say just fit them in place.

That makes sense, but isn't it tough to see if they're binding since the valves aren't quite as straight-on as I'm used to?

That's because the "STANDARD" cam chain tensioner adjustment is on the FRONT of the crankcase. There are plenty of shop manual links on the interwebs for download, I know of at least 2 on Honda twins and I think at least one here. ANY other manual than a Honda manual is garbage.

I've been too busy riding to read a manual I'll get some work done on it in the morning, it's due for an oil change as well.

Suggestions on tires? I'd like something stickier than d404's if I can find 'em, but pickings seem pretty slim.

 

[Spring_Chicken]

Sounds like you may have the same tire size as I do on my CB350. If that's the case this link may help. I am looking around at tires too.

http://www.hondatwins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=25932&sid=4502493beff1d8e8389d198628fa6b94&p=200143#p200143

 

[drummingpariah]

Sounds like you may have the same tire size as I do on my CB350. If that's the case this link may help. I am looking around at tires too.

http://www.hondatwins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=25932&sid=4502493beff1d8e8389d198628fa6b94&p=200143#p200143

That pretty much settles it for me. D404's then find a way to put some 17" wheels on it for modern rubber. I assume aluminum 17" wheels from a dirtbike would fit, as long as the spoke count is the same, but I haven't really looked their street tire availability.

 

[drummingpariah]

Today I finished rewiring my turn signals, slid on new grips (which don't really fit, they're too short), and tossed my battery on the charger (10.7v is not enough!). I also ran new fuel line from the petcock to the carbs, and routed in the float bowl overflow lines. Changed the oil, adjusted the idle. I also swapped out a bunch of old and stripped phillips screws for shiny new stainless allen-heads.

Then I took a stab at adjusting the cam chain, but haven't started it up again since then. I'm going to be honest here: I don't know how the hell that thing works. The FSM doesn't really tell me anything either, there are two adjustment bolts and one lock nut. I can't figure out which of the bolts is the adjustment ... and have no idea what the other one does. I have no confidence that I've adjusted it right, and assume the consequences of running it mis-adjusted are pretty dire. Once I've got that dialed in, I'll adjust the valves, lube the chain, and hope that it stops making bad engine noises for awhile.

 

[frogman]

I agree the cam chain adjuster can be a little vague when it comes to adjusting it. Most important part is making sure that you got the engine in the right part of the rotation. 90 degrees past TDC on the compression stroke on the LEFT side. OR, if you feel like pulling all the tappet adjustment caps, when every tappet is LOOSE. It happens ONE time.

Next part is simple, loosen the nut on the lock bolt on the front of the engine, loosen the lock bolt, you may or may not hear something move. I go a step further and gently tap the crankcase near the adjuster with a hammer handle, just in case something got stuck. Then lightly snug the lock bolt and tighten the lock nut.

DONE. My usual next step, since I'm already there is do to the valve gaps. Then the points. Since all of that requires that the cam chain be tight.

The other bolt in the bottom is a cap that allows you access to the plunger on the adjuster, don't need to mess with it unless you need to change the tensioner blade.

Which manual do you have? Its pretty well explained in the Honda Shop Manual.

 

[drummingpariah]

Which manual do you have? Its pretty well explained in the Honda Shop Manual.

It is the Honda Shop Manual 250-360 circa 1976, oddly enough. They have a pretty descriptive technical drawing right in the beginning, but I guess it's something I'll have to go through a couple times before it sinks in. Those instructions help clear the fog a lot, I'm going to do my best to make some time to adjust it tonight.