CL360 rescue

[drummingpariah]

At long last, I've circled back on the humble little Honda. I thought about selling it many times, but I just like this little bike, and it's so simple that coming back to it should be a no-brainer.

So into the garage, and off with the (ruined) tank and (not quite ruined yet) seat.

The first problem is that I must've yanked a few wires loose over the time I've been moving it around and whatnot. The lighting wires were on the fritz the whole time I owned it (especially the back ones), and a couple of those wires had simply fallen apart. I started going through everything back there with a test light to see what it all was. Simple enough.

Everything behind that junction is unsalvageable. A lot of it looked like it had been spare wire that was lying around someone's shop with butt connectors all over the place for no reason, with un-shrunk shrink wrap covered with electrical tape. That's pretty easy, all the lighting circuits are straightforward. The other side is pretty straightforward as well, and I started going through and identifying grounds to start with (not disconnecting anything in that mess though).

I don't know which circuits are absolutely necessary, so I made sure the key was providing power to its output, then tried kicking it over with a spark plug tester. I certainly didn't see a spark, and I'm assuming I should have something at this point. I also found that I only have power to the MAIN fuse, not the HEAD or TAIL sections (despite the brake light working just fine). The main electrical doohickey I couldn't identify was this gizmo.

The only connector I really couldn't make sense of was this. The others are pretty straightforward.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/348/18947927969_ee2c0632b9_b.jpg

I can't help but wonder if the lights only turn on after it's running. I don't really remember what that behavior was the last time I had it running. I'll try to make a little more time for further diagnosis tomorrow, and I'll spend a little time looking through the manual for a wiring diagram tonight.

Once it's running, I'll check the tappets.

 

[drummingpariah]

According to p104 of the Service Manual, it looks like that's the starter magnetic switch. I think I can toss it altogether. More reading has to happen.

 

[frogman]

Starter relay/magnetic switch what ever you want to call it can go if you have removed the starter. The 2 Red wires attached to the post on the relay need to go the the POSITVE on the battery.

Wiring is pretty easy on these guys if you have the color coded wiring diagram. One thing nice about Honda's is you really don't have to label the wires, Like colors go with like colors, sometimes just good cleaning of all the connectors solves your issues as well.

http://oldmanhonda.com/MC/WiringDiagrams/MCwiring.php#class

Scroll down to the cb/cl 360 and click the link it will open up a color diagram. It should help but I would not trust it 100% I think its for a 74-early 75 model bike.

 

[drummingpariah]

I'm pretty sure it's ready to run once I pop the new fuel tank on and a good charge on the battery (it's pretty worthless, I'm strongly considering just going to a capacitor). I chopped a few parts off last night, and disconnected some extra electronics that I don't really care about. I'd like to replace all the hand controls on this, does anyone have any suggestions?

The ignition tumbler wasn't working properly, so I made a temporary ignition key.

 

[drummingpariah]

It's amazing how something as minor as a new gas tank can change a bike so drastically.

 

[drummingpariah]

I'm back! After letting the poor thing sit for awhile, I watched "Long Way Round" and thankfully found some inspiration to dig back into this. I started tearing down the stuff that's bothered me since buying the bike.

I pulled off the mangled hand levers and sad old switches, removed all the lights, and pulled the wiring harness entirely.

I knew a basic tune-up was a necessity, as I've never touched the valves, plugs, or points on this bike. Service intervals are 1,500 miles, and I put 4,000 miles on it in the first year I had it. None of it came apart easily.

I pulled the exhaust to see how much rust the moisture-trapping heat-wrap had caused. Not nearly as bad as I was expecting.

The carbs certainly needed some love, as I hadn't touched those since purchasing it either ... they had just been sitting with fuel in them.

I'm going to be honest here: I've never liked those Keihin carbs. Not one bit. The push/pull throttle is wonky, the sync is inconvenient, they're a bit temperamental as far as tune, and I'm not already familiar with their jetting/settings. I headed down to my basement, and grabbed a few sets of carbs I am familiar with, to see if I had something else that might work.

As it happens, I did.

These are Mikuni BST carbs, off one of my 4cylinder GSXR750's. That's ~185cc/carb, which isn't too far out of the ballpark for the cl360's 180cc/carb. There's a massive power difference per cylinder, which equates to a massive flow difference, but if I can figure out the right jetting, this could make life a whole lot easier moving forward. These are better supported, more modern designs, and they just ... fit. I'll have to make some spacers, and make a throttle plate extender to connect the left carb's throttle to the right.

I have to admit, I'm excited to be able to standardize this bike a little bit and remove one of the pain points I have with it. Once parts start to come in, I should have a new wiring harness put together (loosely based on this, which is missing the front brake switch - http://www.hondatwins.net/forums/attachments/22049d1362759212-revised-wiring-diagram-honda-twin-rewire-rne.jpg ). If anyone has recommendations for a nice simple, street-legal wiring diagram, I'm all ears.

 

[iatethepeach]

"Long Way Down" is pretty good, too. I hope they do a Central and South America trip soon.

That new tank (from last summer) looks really nice.

 

[drummingpariah]

"Long Way Down" is pretty good, too. I hope they do a Central and South America trip soon.

That new tank (from last summer) looks really nice.

Just started watching Long Way Down tonight, hahaha!

The new tank is clean on the inside, and that's what I really care about. It was a little sad scrapping the last two tanks. I'm trying not to get too carried away with the 'adventure bike build' idea, and just focus on getting what's there to the point where it's right. Most of the bike is getting modernized, but I'm not going crazy with skid plates or engine guards or a larger capacity tank or anything. I think it will end up with some saddle bags/boxes, since they're just generically useful and I can totally justify them.

 

[iatethepeach]

I'm making ammo can panniers for my CL100. I'll post photos later this week- maybe you'll dig them.

Wouldn't it be nice to cruise around the world with a dozen corporate sponsors behind your back and a production company with fixers in every country? Still, those guys are cool.

 

[drummingpariah]

I was thinking about doing something similar to ammo cans. It'd be nice to find something that's aluminum though, if possible. Definitely interested to see your design, I haven't done a whole lot of research yet.

I don't think the funding detracts from their trips at all. That just increases the likelihood that they'll actually finish the trip. If you go on enough trips like that, you'll eventually get kicked out of Argentina for offensive license plates ... or so I've heard.

 

[drummingpariah]

I took another look at the GSXR carbs I've been considering, and found a problem. These are designed to live at a pretty steep angle (45 degrees or so), and I don't want to make new boots for them. Bummer.

These BST's should work well, but don't have the convenient side-idle adjust, and aren't quite as nice of a design overall. They're a bit more oversized as well.

My third set may be good too, but if I remember correctly these are flat slides (I'd have to look at them again to confirm). Flat slides are a bit of a pain to ride, compared to CV designs. Faster, but not quite as forgiving if you aren't paying attention.

 

[drummingpariah]

I've tabled the carbs problem for now, and a few parts have started to come in. Hopefully I've been ordering the right stuff.

It turns out the 350 and 360 engines have completely different ignition systems, and I'm already fond of the 360's. It's pretty easy to get dead-on, and I love that the crank (stator gear thingy?) has markings on it for exactly where each cylinder should ignite. Nice work, Honda.

• Keyed ignition set (Yamaha, in this case): $18.74 shipped
• Control levers: $15.16 shipped (finding a cable brake lever was a bit of a trick)
• Points: $38.97
• Shinko 705 tires: $160.42 shipped (more on these further down)

Tires
I'll be honest here, and admit that I don't like the idea of tubed tires. I also don't like the selection of 18" tires (almost all of them are tubed radials). I have a fantasy of going on an 'adventure' or two in this (weekend trips that include a little trail riding, if I'm being honest) so I wanted something that would be easy to change myself while having decent dirt/gravel performance. In the end, I decided to go with the Shinko 705 radials (120/70-17), and ended up getting two fronts because there isn't a rear in the same size, and I've always liked interchangeable tires. It's not ideal for performance, and will hurt both turn-in and stability, but I'm willing to take a small gamble on it. The worst case scenario is that I order a wider rear tire, and end up with a spare front.

Wheels
You may have noticed that I have 17" tires ... which certainly won't fit the 18" wheels that the cl360 came with. I have some more math to take care of, but I'm going to have a go at lacing up some 17" wheels for this. I've done enough research to know that it's a thing people do, but haven't looked at any specifics or taken measurements. I just know that I have 36-spoke wheels and I'm keeping the stock 36-spoke hubs/brakes/etc. Advice is heartily welcomed.

That which has not arrived yet:

• Aluminum throttle: $9.49 shipped
• Headlight/turn/horn switch: $15.95 shipped
• Metal footpegs (remember the fantasy of 'adventure' I mentioned?): $15.85 shipped
• Excel 17x3 front wheel: $99.99 shipped
• Warp9 17x3.5 rear wheel: $151.99 shipped (new)
• Carb repair kit (pair): $29.95

Yet to be sorted:

• Throttle cable/linkage
• Gauges
• Wheel balancing/truing stand
• Wheel sealing
• Tire mounting spoons
• Tire valves
• Spoke kit
• Fenders

I can't think of too much more that this bike might need, and I have to think this list is pretty complete. If I'm missing anything though, don't hesitate to shout it out. Now is definitely the time to do so.

Total investment, including the bike and everything that's en route: $1156.51

 

[drummingpariah]

... and then there were two. My girlfriend has been interested in getting her license for awhile. Now she has an excuse, and a bike (birthday present). $300 and 3,000 miles on it. Some disassembly required.

I just gave her a can of PB Blaster and told her to go to town on every bolt on the thing. Anything that didn't move freely needs PB.

Many rodent corpses later, we crammed them both into the garage, where they'll generally be forgotten until this weekend.

 

[trek97]

Awesome, the girlfriends bike looks complete. I would do everything possible to keep it as stock as possible. Save the airboxes and exhaust. New rear shocks, sprockets/chain, brakes/bearings, CB350 HD clutch springs/discs from bore-tech.com, sparckmoto R/R, Stock size Avons, etc... Once tuned you'll be asking permission to ride hers.

I know the stock CL headers are triple wall pipes. If the CB head pipes are also triple wall...That thing had to be running crazy HOT to turn blue. Definitely look into the cause of the Blue head pipe on her bike. (Running lean and/or timing.)

Look at clearance issues w the ginormous tires. Chain, forks/fender to be specific.

Sounded like yours was running pretty good in earlier posts, why mess w the carbs now?

Dont make typical 360 mistakes...electric start and center stand will be your best friends one day. :

 

[drummingpariah]

That's generally the plan, leave the bike alone as much as possible. Just run it as Honda intended. I've ridden a few friends' stock 350's and 360's, and while they're just good bikes all around. I definitely enjoy a more trimmed-down bike though, especially when the engine is as power-limited as these are.

Mine was running, but it wasn't running well. One of the cylinders was notably lean, and after opening up these stock carbs, I can see why. There's a bunch of multi-colored gunk in the float bowls, and through all the jets. Why put time/energy into fixing a thing when a more effective design is right on hand? That's like keeping a flat-head engine in a car, just because that's what it came with.

Look at clearance issues w the ginormous tires. Chain, forks/fender to be specific.

Stock tires on the cb360 or the smaller tires on the cl360? 120/70-17 is a pretty compact tire. The front will be a little wider, but it's far from ginormous. I don't expect any real issues, other than figuring out how to lace and seal these wheels.

 

[trek97]

Ah yep a little better than the 170/70-17 you posted earlier. Typo.
Keep on keepin on.

 

[drummingpariah]

Ah yep a little better than the 170/70-17 you posted earlier. Typo.
Keep on keepin on.

Totally missed my typo (fixed now). I can barely squeeze a 170 on my GSXR, that'd be practically unrideable on a ~30hp little thing like this.

 

[trek97]

Ha, thats what I was talkin bout! But I also thought...seen guys try weirder things than that. ;D

 

[drummingpariah]

I dug into the cb360 (my girlfriend's) and started some fact gathering. The kicker spins, and it spins the rear wheel if in gear. From that, I can tell that the transmission spins freely.

There is no valve popping sound, so I can assume the clutch isn't engaging the engine, so I tried pulling the plugs, and rotating by hand. Both of the plugs were stuck, but one was REALLY stuck.

As soon as I started turning the crank bolt (center of the stator) it came loose. It could be that someone has gone through this process before.

I suppose I could just short the starter motor to rotate it that way. I assume the starter is direct drive on these? I dumped mystery oil into both plug holes, and I'm going to let that work for an hour or so before I try anything drastic. If I have to crack the case on this, I may as well just buy a new engine for it instead. I'm sure a 40 year old engine with 3000 miles on it has no secrets I want to know.

Back to work though, I suppose I can wire the cl360 while I wait for wheels and tires.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[trek97]

Well that stinks. I am amazed the plug broke off...Rather than, tearing the threads out along w the plug.
If I were you I would pull the head cover and check the condition on the cam lobes and journals. That one may be worth saving. Before looking at buying someone elses ebay junk. (theres plenty of them out there). Or is somebody now making a "new" 360 clone?

Soak the plug remains w penetrant a few days and heat it up w torch a few cycles more penetrant then try and easy out...or take it to a machine shop.