Electronics AND Air Filtration box?

[CupidsDeathDay]

So i don't know if this is a new concept, as i could not find anything in the forums or anywhere else on this topic. But based on your opinions, what are your thoughts?

I am working on creating an air box that holds my electonics inside.
So it would essentially be protecting the electronics from the outside elements, and i can hide my filter(s) at the same time. While still remaining accessible to the user under the seat.

I attached a quick drawing of what i am referring to.
This concept may also work with a single/dual Pod filter instead of an oval filter.

Pros that i can think of:
1. Protected from elements like dust, water, etc.
2. No need for stock air box/filters.
3. Adjustability of airflow for tuning purposes.
(Ex. Adding/removing/closing off holes or louvers. Or in the case of the pods; Place a restrictor on the intake ports at the filter or add an adjustable rotating restrictor where the box meets the 2-1 adapter)
4. Air flow into the Carbs from the rear of the bike will be cooler than being right behind the engine.
5. Air flow from the rear intake will travel across the electronics to keep them cooled.
6. Air flow will be smoother or less turbulent, when incoming to the Carbs.

But what are the cons?
What are your thoughts?

 

[pidjones]

The only cons that I can think of are; even though the air is filtered, there would be a lot more flow and it would possably junk up the electronics and I would check that the rapidly varying pressure won't effect electrolytic (although they could be epoxy encapsulated) capacitors or batteries in the box. Oh, and ALL of the wiring feed-throughs would need to be somewhat airtight. Make sure the electronics are right before sealing it up.

 

[DesmoDog]

A couple questions I have are why would you want to intentionally restrict the air coming into the airbox, and have you ever looked inside an airbox on a carb'd bike? They're often not nearly as clean as you might expect due to reversion from the carbs and/or the crank case being vented into them. You may end up with the electronics coated in an oily mist.

I'd also wonder if the location you are now drawing air from is a low pressure area when the bike is at speed. The piston doesn't suck air into the engine while it's running, the atmosphere forces air into it. Lower atmospheric pressure and there's less air being forced in.

 

[Sonreir]

Seems a little bit like a solution in search of a problem.

 

[MiniatureNinja]

reasons to do this:
it's a show bike, with a focus on a simple and uncluttered design. it's a clever way to hide everything and people will be wondering where all the necessary electronics are hidden.

reasons not to do this:
it's something you want to drive for real on the street, ever want to service, want to perform at or above stock power levels, or basically anything that isn't a display only motorcycle.

 

[trek97]

Air boxes do suck water and they do have drain tubes.

 

[CupidsDeathDay]

Thanks for yall's inputs. I thought i was being clever. But didn't think of everything i guess. That is why i have you guys. Lol

I forgot to mention, this will be for a 1981 Suzuki GS450 street tracker/cafe bike. It has the original Mikuni CV Carbs on it.

@pidjones
-I already took into consideration that my capacitor is enclosed. But i was planning on sealing the hole for the wiring loom with a grommet and some sealant.

@DesmoDog
-Not necessarily restrict, but find optimal airflow to keep it consistent when moving. I tried a ram air and couldn't keep the bike from bogging down or idle bad. I went through almost a full range of different Pilot and Idle jets, and needle positions. But no matter what i did it just didn't like the ram style air intake. It would still bog down in idle, and would bog on the throttle when changing gears. Also, i have the crank case vented elsewhere on the bike hidden under the tank. On the topic of the kick back/reversion of the carbs, i figured the downward sloping intake pipe would keep this from happening, as long as airflow is good.
-The air pressure draw would be based on the direction of the louvers/holes created for the filter. If i set up the louvers to face forward of the bike, the air flowing passed the engine and between my legs would be enough. Or at least that was my logic. Maybe i am wrong.

I always thought that the pressure from downward motion of the piston is what sucks air into the carburetors?..

PS: I have no side covers or fairings obscuring the air on or around my engine. So i figured it would get sufficient airflow.

@Sonreir
I just like coming up with new ideas for efficiency of use. Plus i figured it would look super clean and keep excess dirt and shit away from the filter and electronics. Just tossing the idea out there. Kind of a "Maybe it will work, maybe it won't" thing. It could be really dumb, but that is why i asked. Haha. Didn't want to ruin my bike without asking someone that knows more.

@miniatureNinja
I took into consideration, the services on the bike. I didn't draw it up, but i planned to make a port on the top that has a gasket and the door is screwed/bolted onto the top. So to access would only require lifting the seat, and unscrewing the porthole to swap filter/electronics. Obviously rewiring would take a bit more work, as i would have to unseal the grommet from the wiring hole. But good points.

Thanks for the input and many good points. I may ditch the design and keep the current set up with electronics and battery under the seat. I thought about doing a 1-2 intake. But didn't know the pro's or con's so i will look through the forum on that one.

 

[DesmoDog]

@DesmoDog
-Not necessarily restrict, but find optimal airflow to keep it consistent when moving. I tried a ram air and couldn't keep the bike from bogging down or idle bad. I went through almost a full range of different Pilot and Idle jets, and needle positions. But no matter what i did it just didn't like the ram style air intake. It would still bog down in idle, and would bog on the throttle when changing gears. Also, i have the crank case vented elsewhere on the bike hidden under the tank. On the topic of the kick back/reversion of the carbs, i figured the downward sloping intake pipe would keep this from happening, as long as airflow is good.
-The air pressure draw would be based on the direction of the louvers/holes created for the filter. If i set up the louvers to face forward of the bike, the air flowing passed the engine and between my legs would be enough. Or at least that was my logic. Maybe i am wrong.

I always thought that the pressure from downward motion of the piston is what sucks air into the carburetors?..

Again, I've never heard of restricting/regulating airflow into the airbox for performance reasons. "Optimal airflow" into the airbox meaning what? The airbox is letting in too much air at low revs??? How? What are you trying to keep consistent? Every other bike made idles fine without screwing with the airbox inlets, I don't understand what problem you're trying to address here. I've had a bike with an open velocity stack - no airbox or filter - and it idled just fine. Pulled from idle just fine too. No regulation needed.

Why would a "ram air" intake make any difference at idle? Are you idling at speeds where ram air has an effect? The bike may not have run well with that intake, but it sounds like it had nothing to do with any ram air effect.

The angle of the intake pipe has little effect on reversion from the carb. Your bike is going to have a pulsating flow, just like every other piston engine so I'm not sure what you mean by "good airflow" here either.

If your setup is anything like I'm envisioning the flow around your airbox intake will be turbulent so the direction of the louvers wouldn't matter much. As drawn above, only the first louver will be in the airflow, assuming the air is flowing down the sides of the box at that point.

The downward motion of the piston creates a lower pressure in the cylinder and the higher pressure in the intake forces air into the intake port. It sounds like splitting hairs, but that's how it works. Air travels from high pressure to low pressure because the higher pressure forces it to move. This seems obvious when we're talking about a boosted engine, but it's the same with a naturally aspirated engine. Probably doesn't matter so much in intakes, but it's the same story with how carbs deliver fuel. People think the air moving over the jet pulls fuel from the float bowl, but it doesn't... the pressure in the float bowl forces fuel up into the lower pressure intake flow. This can be an important detail if you're messing with the location of the vent tubes on the carbs.

1-2 intake... not sure what you mean there? Isn't that what you're showing in your sketch? Or do you mean one carb for two cylinders? Millions of Harley Davidsons are running that set up.

Basically you can make just about anything work, but it's not the optimum set up. Truth is even you had the resources to develop the optimum intake from a performance standpoint, it wouldn't fit the bike when you were done anyway. There are always compromises. Pick your poison.

 

[CupidsDeathDay]

Okay. So maybe there is a misunderstanding in my current knowledge of CV carbs. I was under the understanding that turbulence and changes of the air/pressure(Altitude/elevation, heat, and moisture/humidity) into the carbs can cause issues or changes in vehicle performance. This is based on information i was provided from my research and information from others. So maybe, again, i am overthinking the process. I figured that if you keep incoming air "regulated", to the degree, that the air is less turbulent, hot, or moist/humid it would remove, at least a few, of these issues. I am not super well versed in this category, outside of general adjustments to air/fuel as it is received into the carb, and eventually the cylinder. I also understand general Atmospheric Air-pressure, and how it can affect carbs based on altitude/elevation. But also, in my research found that release/restriction of air to the intake can adjust the mix; As there is less/more air getting into the system. I was basing this design under this particular understanding. This was to essentially do away with having to rejet for minor issues, altitude, or atmospheric changes based on adjustments to the intake or more simple issues like not being able to adjust for a bad idle after changing all the jets and trying every adjustment to the A/F mixture screw. So if you have a filtration system with adjustments that can be made on the fly external from the carb. I was told the best way to verify lean/rich mix(on idle or throttle) is to cut off some of the air to the box or the filters. If less air flowing through the system makes it rev, then you are lean. But if it bogs and dies you are too rich. So why wouldn't this work for a filtration that is adjustable? But i guess that's not how it works. I figured if it could be adjusted this way, it would fix my idle issue, since i feel like i have tried everything. But maybe not.

Its dumb. I will go back to the normal filters and just start from scratch. I will probably try to rebuild my carbs, again, to figure out why its idling wrong. I made all necessary adjustments as recommended by a bike mechanic. Including, but not limited to, changing all my jets to what is necessary for my exhaust and intake set up. Maybe i just need new A/F mixture screws. But they seem to be difficult to find the right size for my bike.

Thanks for the information. I am ditching the idea and starting over. Just thought it was an interesting idea. Guess not...

 

[irk miller]

You have a lot of it backwards. CV carbs are less affected by the environment. That's much of the point of them. It's all about air flow and vacuum. If you restrict, they don't work as well. A slide carb, such as a Mikuni VM, can be hugely affected by altitude, pressure, temp and all that.

 

[CupidsDeathDay]

@irk miller
Thanks. Thats where my confusion is then. Glad we could clear that up. So it probably is something as stupid as a bad A/F Mixture screw then. I plan on starting from scratch at a general base-line on the jets, and trying to find a A/F Mixture screw that fits. The last 2 i bought don't fit, as they were too thick at the tip. Even though the site, i bought them from, indicated it was a direct fit to my bike. I will look further into it.