FZR1000 - Start button, nothing happens

tahitianrider

Been Around the Block
Hey guys,
So I got a 1988 FZR 1000 Genesis, when I got it, it wasn't starting "normally", ignition, etc. works, but in order to start it, you have to short circuit the starter solenoid with a screwdriver, because the start button has no effect.
The start button does work! because when pressing it, the oil light comes on, as it should, so the button itself is working.
I though of a bad starter solenoid, but I just replaced it, and the bike will still not start with the button, only by bypassing the solenoid...

What could it be ? I have followed the blue/white "start signal" wire from the solenoid and it goes onto the big flasher relay unit, could the problem be the flasher relay unit ?
Or maybe a defective kickstand switch ?

The neutral switch is OK because the neutral light works wells.

My guess would be the flasher relay... but since that part is rare and expensive, I'd like to be sure...

The seller (if telling the truth...) told me that the morning I bought the bike, there wasn't any problem, then after riding, suddenly the starter button stopped working for no reason...
 
Well I just did a continuity test with an ohmeter on the plug of that flasher relay (which is involved in the start of the engine) and according to a service manual I have here the relay is defective...
 
Between the side stand cut out and clutch cut out and gear selector cutout, there's a lot that can go wrong that isn't strictly necessary as long as you don't try to start it in gear.

You could replace the offending stock part with a replacement, or re-wire it to eliminate those safety features.
 
Yeah all those safety, clutch, sidestand, etc. were already removed by previous owners, I've seen the sidestand wires plugged all together to eliminate the switch,
I've ordered a used relay, we'll see if it is the issue.
 
Usually the start button carries 12v power from the OFF-RUN switch and it usually goes directly to the starter solenoid (relay). The opposite low current side goes to ground. On the high current side, one is to the battery and the other direct to the starter motor that grounds through the engine.

On our bikes the starter solenoid is just a high current relay. Unlike cars where it also pulls in the bendix.

Do you have a Factory Service Manual and wiring diagram? On an FZR400 the blue white goes to the starter shut off solenoid first and from there to the starter solenoid. Try taking a lead from Blue/white to the starter solenoid and see if that works. I suspect that the safety switch elimination may not be correct/complete.
 
Oh okay,
So the blue/white wire on the solenoid that activates the solenoid, is it suppose to get positive 12V ? or a ground signal, to activate the solenoid ?

yes I have the wiring diagram of the FZR1000, which I believe is the same as the FZR 400, the blue/white wire goest through the starter shut off first indeed, and it is that starter shut off (which I call flasher relay) that I suspect to be defective and I ordered another one.

I tried to connect the blue/white wire from the solenoid directly to ground, because it seems on the wiring diagram that the starter button was connecting blue/white to ground? But nothing happens, should I try to connect the blue/white wire from the solenoid directly to +12V to see if the starter goes on?
 
Check the wiring diagram and confirm that the Blue and white connects to ground at the push button. It looks to me like the L/W lead carries 12v at the solenoid and the button grounds that to complete the circuit.

On the 400 wiring diagram in front of me it looks like it is always ON up to the Shut Off and all the other systems that allow that to operate are OFF until the main switch is turned to ON.

If I am right, then the L/W wire would have to be rewired to switched 12v if the other safety switches are disconnected.

To test that, try bridging the shut off and with the key to OFF, push the button. If the bike turns over but doesn't fire, you know that's how it's wired and what to do with it.
Try to bypass the starter shut off by connecting the two blue/white leads to each other.
 
Well according to the wiring diagram I have, pressing the start button connects the blue/white wire with the black wire, that is connected to the ground pole of the battery.

I am not 100% sure if I understood what you said correctly (sorry I'm french), but I tried to : remove the shut off relay and connect the 2 blue/white wires together, then press the start button with both the key to OFF, and ON, nothing happens.

The troubleshooting guide I have in my French service manual says that to test the shut off relay, if the engine does not start, you need to unplug it, then, on the plug (wiring harness side) you need to connect a 12V battery to the 2 blue/white wires, then the continuity with an ohmmeter between the red/white and blue/yellow wires. There should be continuity with the battery plugged in, and no continuity when the battery is not plugged in (on the blue/white wires). Otherwise, the shut off relay is defective.

I did the test and I have continuity when the battery is not plugged in.
 
Let's stay with English please. My French is terrible.

Yes correct that when you push the button it connects the L/W to Ground. L/W should have 12v when switch is ON. Try wiring a lead from a switched 12V supply straight to the solenoid and from the other side directly to the L/W at the button.

OR
Check that you have switched 12v at the Shut off and if yes, wire straight from that same terminal to the button.

Eliminate the shut off relay completely.
 
teazer said:
Try wiring a lead from a switched 12V supply straight to the solenoid and from the other side directly to the L/W at the button.

OR
Check that you have switched 12v at the Shut off and if yes, wire straight from that same terminal to the button.

Eliminate the shut off relay completely.

You mean finding a switched 12V, wire it to the solenoid, but I don't get it about the other side? Another switched 12v to the L/W wire?

I have checked and I do have switched 12v at the shut off (between the 2 L/W wires), but again I don't understand how to wire that 12v straight to the button, because one of the 2 L/W on the shut which has 12v is already the wire from the button.

Shouldn't I just wait to receive my new shut off relay to see if it fixes the issue ?
 
Stock wiring is +12v from battery to starter solenoid. at that same connection is Blue/white which goes to the Shut off. The other side of the shut off is also Blue white and it goes to the button.

In that stock arrangement, the button only has power when the safety circuits are active and activate the shut off relay. The connections that activate that shut off relay are Black/white and Red/white.

With power OFF, there should be no connection across the two Blue/white connections on the shut off relay. If that has connectivity when not connected, it is faulty.

It is a really convoluted complicated wiring arrangement.

Yes, you can wait for a new Shut off relay.

What I was suggesting was to disconnect the Blue/white from each side of the shut off relay. connect them to each other. Press the button and see if the starter turns.

That was just to test the starter and solenoid.
 
Oh ok I get, I'll test continuity between the two blue/white wires with power off, I know that there is no power and then 12v on the 2 blue/white wire with power ON, I will test continuity with power OFF.

Oh okay I get it, well I tried to do that, connect the two blue/white together then press start but nothing happens, I did this while the shut off was completely removed though, which might explain why nothing happened (the black/white and red/white wires not being connected)
 
So I just got my new cut off relay... and the problem is still there :(

I don't know what could be the issue... I asked the seller again and he keep telling me that the start button stopped working just 2 hour before I bought the bike... and that it worked fined before...

I also notice a new electrical problem: the oil light is now always on, although the oil level is OK and the oil level sensor seems OK too. Even more strange: when I unplug the oil level sensor, the light is still on! it should be off because it oil sensor is a grounding switch. Something interesting: when I unplug the red/black wire from the oil sensor, the oil light is still on, but when I touch the ground with that red/black wire (to simulate the oil sensor), the light go brighter! it is always on anyway, but brighter when I connect red/black to ground!

So there is definitely something weird in the wiring harness of that bike but can't figure what :( the most problematic thing being the start button not working...
 
I noticed something interesting: when I unplug the blue/white wire from the solenoid, the oil light goes off, then when I plug it to the solenoid, the oil light goes on... so the 2 problems are definitely connected!

On the wiring diagram, the only area where the blue/white wire from start button (and solenoid) and the red/black from the oil light wire seems to connect is the diode assembly. So I have ordered another diode assembly to test it...
The diode assembly on the bike already seems like it has been replaced because it is written "FZR1000" on it with a marker which indicate that it's a part bought used online off a wrecked bike.
 
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