Lazarus - 1975 Cl360 - STATUS: STOLEN

Re: Lazarus - 1975 Cl360

so i checked the timing and it was a little bit off. adjusted it as well as i could (i think i did a good job but it's my first time doing it so i can't guarantee my work) and still she only ran on one cylinder.
so i took the carbs out of both bikes and opened up the float bowl on the CL carb on the side that wasn't running. everything looked good in there so i kind of assumed it wasn't a carb problem.
so i swap carbs on the two bikes to double check (having 2 of the same bike is pretty freakin' awesome). first i put the CL carbs (lazarus) into the CB.

i guess at this point i need to mention that the CB runs well but only idles on one cylinder.

i fire up the cb and it's only idling on one cylinder but both of them are getting hot when i rev the engine so they're both working to some degree or another. so at this point i assume that the CB only idling on one cylinder is not a carb issue like i thought it was.

then i put the CB carb into lazarus. she fires up, idles on one cylinder but runs on both.

so i guess the CB carb is causing idling on one cylinder
and the CL carb even though it appeared to more or less run on both cylinders must be why lazarus wasn't running correctly and it's some kind of weird fluke that both cylinder were getting hot on the CB.

sheesh.

so i guess i'll be ordering some jets to replace the handmade ones and see if that fixes anything. for now i'm happy with one running bike, even if it only idles on one cylinder.

here's some pics of the tail light:

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it's a little crooked but the turn signals are REALLY crooked so until i get new ones i'm not gonna worry about it


from the side you can see that i really need to cut the crossbar down to make it look good.

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and here's a pic of the bike, it's got the CB tank on there because it doesn't have a crossover cable and makes working with it a lot easier than the other one.

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the black tank does look good though, even though the PO did a really crummy rattlecan job on it.

someday i'd like to paint the frame and have it end up looking something like this:

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apologies to mysta2!
 
Re: Lazarus - 1975 Cl360

so i've been thinking about these carbs.

i realize it's probably confusing so here's a synopsis:

CB carbs idle on one cylinder run on two.

CL carbs have home made main jets. started out working but a week later only running on one cylinder.

i ordered some new jets for the CL carbs so i'm not gonna worry about that one yet.

the CB carbs though...
i've put in a a carb rebuild kit and cleaned the heck out of them. to no avail. my buddy and i hooked them up to a vacuum carb syncer thingy and in order to get the carbs pretty closed to synced we had to dial the adjustment screw all the way in. but still only idling on one carb. and the idle is very high, about 2K and that's as low as it goes. today when i had the carbs off i could see that the left carb's (the carb that does idle) throttle plate is a little bit open and the right carb is closed.

so my question is are my carbs out of sync and there was something wrong with the vacuum gauge? or is it possible that while visually they look different that's required for them to be working correctly?

and regardless... why do my carbs only idle on one cylinder?
 
Re: Lazarus - 1975 Cl360

Let me start by saying I've never worked on 360 carbs but that 2k rpm idle is kinda concerning. I hate to point out the obvious but do you have the slides pointing the correct direction? Floats set to the correct height? Are those homemade jets the same size as the CB jets? I know you said you have new ones coming. The carb sync. really shouldn't be off unless you have a vacuum leak somewhere else.

Oh, are the needles/shims the same? If the needle is at 2 different heights that could throw you off too. Trying to think what else could make that not idle..... gotta be something in the idle jet. I know you said you cleaned + rebuilt but maybe something is lodged in a little brass tube somewhere. How is the spark at idle on that cylinder? Maybe it's not getting enough at idle but gets a stronger spark when running?

Good luck and keep us posted!
 
Re: Lazarus - 1975 Cl360

took the carbs off both bikes again and put the good (non-homemade) jets in the CL carb. fired right up, runs on both, idles on both. although not perfectly. one cylinder definitely works harder than the other. if i pull the left spark plug cable while the bike is running the rpms drop but the bike still idles. if i pull the right cable the bike dies. i didn't have any luck w/ adjusting the air mixture screws. is this normal? or should it be able to idle on either cylinder independently?
 
Re: Lazarus - 1975 Cl360

Big R said:
Let me start by saying I've never worked on 360 carbs but that 2k rpm idle is kinda concerning. I hate to point out the obvious but do you have the slides pointing the correct direction? Floats set to the correct height? Are those homemade jets the same size as the CB jets? I know you said you have new ones coming. The carb sync. really shouldn't be off unless you have a vacuum leak somewhere else.

Oh, are the needles/shims the same? If the needle is at 2 different heights that could throw you off too. Trying to think what else could make that not idle..... gotta be something in the idle jet. I know you said you cleaned + rebuilt but maybe something is lodged in a little brass tube somewhere. How is the spark at idle on that cylinder? Maybe it's not getting enough at idle but gets a stronger spark when running?

Good luck and keep us posted!


looking closer it's definitely the (out of) sync screw that's causing the high idle. floats and set needles are the same get's good spark. i'll have to wait for those new jets to come in before i work on it again.

thanks for the help!
 
Re: Lazarus - 1975 Cl360

this motorcycle loves giving me a hard time. she was popping fuses for quite awhile but i think i got that straightened out. now she's just running like crap. starts up. idles on both cylinders. get going and there's just no power. it doesn't feel like it's only running on one cylinder, more like a cylinder and a half. it lurches a little like power is cutting in and out.
carbs are clean. i adjusted the timing a couple months ago.

what gives?

it's frustrating. i'd much rather be spending my time making my bike look the way i want it, not constantly trying to get it running.
 
Re: Lazarus - 1975 Cl360 (my bike hates me)

Hang in there man! It can def be frustrating. When you said it's lurching, does it run up to about 3000 rpm and start popping in and out with power? And how old is your coil? There's a way to check for a bad coil, easiest is replace it.

And what was up with the fuses? Probably nothing to do with it, but just curious.

Usually it's just something small that you are overlooking. Have any luck with the air/fuel mixture screws?
 
Re: Lazarus - 1975 Cl360 (my bike hates me)

you said the one butterfly is closed and the other is open at closed throttle right? they should be pretty close to even when closed. sounds like you closed the right one as much as possible to match up with the left. I would check the linkage your cables those emulsion tubes are really hard to get clean.and they cause issues when they are not.
 
Re: Lazarus - 1975 Cl360 (my bike hates me)

You are sure its not a motor problem?
You do have some slack in cables?
Throttle plates should be pretty close to identical position, wind the throttle stop screw out and 'bench syc' (basically, set both plates closed and make sure they open together)
To 'test' sync gauges, just connect hoses one at a time to one cylinder, should give same reading on each gauge.
Needles, throttle valve (slide) doesnt have ANY efect at idle (if its running right you can remove slide, its not doing anything until butterfly opens)
If the mixture screw adjustment has no effect on idle, circuit is still blocked

PJ
 
Re: Lazarus - 1975 Cl360 (my bike hates me)

Big R said:
Hang in there man! It can def be frustrating. When you said it's lurching, does it run up to about 3000 rpm and start popping in and out with power?

yeah pretty much

And how old is your coil? There's a way to check for a bad coil, easiest is replace it.

pretty sure both my coils have been replaced (albeit with old parts off of another bike)

And what was up with the fuses? Probably nothing to do with it, but just curious.

didn't find which wire it was but the rubber grommet on my headlight had come off and the fuse only pops when the headlight is on so i'm pretty sure that's where the problem lies.

Usually it's just something small that you are overlooking. Have any luck with the air/fuel mixture screws?

twiddled them a little and they don't have a lot of effect but do seem to be giving me the highest rpms where they are now.
 
Re: Lazarus - 1975 Cl360 (my bike hates me)

thompsonmx100 said:
you said the one butterfly is closed and the other is open at closed throttle right? they should be pretty close to even when closed. sounds like you closed the right one as much as possible to match up with the left. I would check the linkage your cables those emulsion tubes are really hard to get clean.and they cause issues when they are not.

that's actually my other bike but what are the emulsion tubes. forgive my ignorance. figuring out most of this stuff as i go along.
 
Re: Lazarus - 1975 Cl360 (my bike hates me)

crazypj said:
You are sure its not a motor problem?
i'm not sure about anything :p

You do have some slack in cables?
Throttle plates should be pretty close to identical position, wind the throttle stop screw out and 'bench syc' (basically, set both plates closed and make sure they open together)
To 'test' sync gauges, just connect hoses one at a time to one cylinder, should give same reading on each gauge.
Needles, throttle valve (slide) doesnt have ANY efect at idle (if its running right you can remove slide, its not doing anything until butterfly opens)
If the mixture screw adjustment has no effect on idle, circuit is still blocked

PJ

again this was the problem on my other bike. having 2 of the (more or less) same bike, both with problems makes this thread a little confusing!
 
Re: Lazarus - 1975 Cl360 (my bike hates me)

the emulsion tubes are the brass tubes that extend into the float bowl they have a very small orfice. they are pretty long also. I am not totally familiar with your particular carbs but most carbs are similar. do you have access to compressed air for your carb cleaning? These things are very difficult to clean and if one passage is dirty then they dont work. I still wouldnt rule out electrical either. Can you post a video of the thing running that may help. Or may just make us more confused. Just keep plugging away read your manual very thoroughly and if you dont understand something ask ?
 
Re: Lazarus - 1975 Cl360 (my bike hates me)

I've had six CB/CL 360's and the one cylinder popping and general pain in the ass of syncing the carbs is an old foe of mine.

My advice is to "reset" everything and do a full tune up to rule out all the 360 gremlins. Put EVERYTHING to spec. Adjust cam chain tension (make sure the cam chain isn't slopping around and causing an intermittent timing problem), valve clearance (make sure a valve isn't staying open or not enough), timing, then the gap on the points and check that the spark is strong. With all that out of the way, the ONLY thing left would be carbs. If it clears it all up then it was one of the general tune up procedures that fixed it.

Check out the compression if you can..... I had one that had a bad valve that caused the one weak cylinder problem for me....

If it's still giving you problems, and you know it's not timing or electrical, you can diagnose the problem a lot better because the only thing left is air/fuel (carb).
- Try to Sync the carbs. If its still a problem getting them even, use a float guage to check the float bowl levels. If the one cylinder is off, it would make it difficult to sync to the other one. It might explain your maxing out the mixture screw on the one side. While you're checking the float bowl make sure they are solid and don't have a leak.
- CB360's use a constant vacuum carb setup. If the diaphragm has a leak, it sends the whole house of cards out of whack. The same goes for blocked or occluded emulsion tubes like someone had mentioned.

You'll be pleasantly surprised how much more you get out of the 360 motor when it's in good tune. I weigh 230lbs and it'll wheelie pretty effortlessly.... ;D

Unless you're weak cylinder condition is caused by poor compression, the order of things from doing a full tune up, and checking/adjusting/rebuilding the carbs HAS to solve the problem.
 
Re: Lazarus - 1975 Cl360

i broke down and took it to a mechanic. diagnosis: bad coil, worn out points. so he replaced those and i'm back in business (just in time for about 10 straight days of rain.). hopefully i'll get a chance to do some work on it in the near future. next step is removing the gauges and lowering the head light. stay tuned!
 
Re: Lazarus - 1975 Cl360

did a little work and the bike looks a lot different. super light weight.

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actually i just bought a honda mb-5.

i did pull the guages off but it looks a little goofy with the headlight's current location.

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i've got clamps to move the headlight down though, so that's the next step.
 
Re: Lazarus - 1975 Cl360

put the headlamp on new clamps and moved it down.
removed the front blinkers temporarily.

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looks a lot better.

i didnt' realize that the blinkers were two pieces. i thought i'd just buy new ones but now i'm thinking i'll just cut down the shaft and use the stock ones.
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the bike is kind of screaming for clip-ons now...
and a solo seat...
and pod filters...
and...
and...
sheesh.
 
Re: Lazarus - 1975 Cl360 (i don't know what i'm doing but i'm having a good time)

i looked at roccity seats and they all look great but seem to be designed for bigger bike than the 360. so after some looking around i think i've decided on one from glass from the past, the UNIBTF (the first seat on their web page http://caferacingparts.com/)

i'll probably paint it black and just do some minimal padding.

i'll probably go with roccity clip ons though. anybody have a picture of the adjustable ones mounted?
 
Re: Lazarus - 1975 Cl360 (i don't know what i'm doing but i'm having a good time)

lazarus is in the shop again. turns out the other coil has gone bad. man i sure would like for this bike to run properly. i took the carb off my mb5 to try and fix an idle problem and somehow managed to make it not run at all.

in happier (but still money draining) news i think i've picked out a seat for the bike:

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it's this one from glass from the past but minus the upholstery.

i'll need to relocate my battery box to accomplish mounting it though. i've got an acquaintance who welds i'm going to need to hit up.

i'll probably do the clipons first since that'll be a much easier job (he says hoping-ly)
 
Re: Lazarus - 1975 Cl360 (i don't know what i'm doing but i'm having a good time)

ordered a set of clip-ons:

Clipon_Cat_pic.jpg


to mount them i need to remove the triple tree... i assume i just remove the three bolts and it pops off?
 
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