Re drilling spoke hole question

Uglyrabbit

Active Member
So I have bought myself a truing stand to true my wheels:
Rd350 hubs
Rd350 NOS spokes
MikesXS 18x2.15in high shoulder front and rear rims

I have laced the rims and got them as close to true as I can but my spokes are bending because the spoke angle is not correct. Does anyone have any nuggets of wisdom on how to re drill or file the holes to make sure the holes are at the correct angle? I thought about removing all the outer spokes and leave the inner so I can sight through the rim to hub and then do the opposite for the inners. Any advise is appreciated.





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So I unlaced my outer spokes and sighted down the hole. It appears the hole is correctly drilled. As seen in the pic. But for some reason the nipple head is seating on only part of the rim as seen in the second pic. I don't think it is laced wrong. But I am a rookie at wheel building.


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The nipple may be too large for the hole. Buchanan's can provide different sized nipples or you may be able to drill the hole slightly larger to allow the nipple to seat.
 
After looking at a few picks of other wheels with MikesXS rims I think the problem may be the spoke length. I think the spokes are too long changing the angle at which they exit the hole.


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The problem is not the spoke length. There are four possibilities regarding spoke length. 1) they are too short and do not reach or do not engage enough threads. 2) they are the correct length. 3) they are too long, but not so long that the threads pass too far through the nipples, in which case they can simply be cut shorter to keep from piercing the inner tube. 4) they are too long and threads in the nipple overlap the smooth shank of the spoke wire in which case they ca not be used. Realize that the threads on spokes are rolled, not cut, so the threads stand proud of the base wire diameter. This makes it possible for the nipple to thread on past the threads on the spoke in many cases.
You are correct in assessing that the holes drilled in the rims are not angled correctly for the diameter hub you are using. The critical thing to understand is that it is not only the hole, which often is sufficiently larger than the nipple diameter as to be if no consequence, but the machined "countersink" that the head of the nipple bears against. This is the surface that needs to be machined at the proper angle for the spoke to "aim" properly at the right hole in the hub. When the hole/countersink (for lack of a better term) is not angled correctly, the spoke will curve so that the nipple end is aimed as the hole is aimed, and then curve/bend to reach the hole in the hub. I doubt that this causes much of a structural issue unless really severe, but personally I find any bending unacceptable if only for looks.
I have corrected this problem by making a cutter to re-machine the landing or countersink to the correct angle. It was actually pretty easy, albeit pretty crude. The result was fine though. First I laced up half the spokes and somewhat trued the wheel. Then I made a cutter from a woodworkers drill/countersink. The type that has a set screw and a replaceable drill bit. They are commonly available - I got one at Home Depot. I took out the drill and re-ground the countersink cutting angle to match the nipple flange. Then replaced the drill with a steel rod long enough to almost reach the hole in the hub from the corresponding hole in the rim. Then it was a simple process to re-cut the nipple seat by putting the modified cutter in a drill motor and "aiming" the rod at the correct hole in the hub. So you can see why you need to lace up half the spokes so you have your "target" in the right place. Once you have half of the new seats cut, you lace up those spokes, remove the first half and then cut the rest. This was actually a lot faster and easier to do than it no doubt sounds. You do need to take care to not over cut, as the rim is only so thick. I have done this on rims from Mikes and had no problems. If your nipples are a close fit to the holes themselves, you will have to angle the holes as well to match. This is vastly less critical, as it is the seat that aims the nipple and hence the spoke, so you can simply take the correct drill and re-angle the hole by eye. Easy enough to do one at a time after you get the seats cut properly and have the wheel assembled.

Reproduce this pic on your own wheel. This is an 18" Chinese rim and an RD350 rear hub. The rim is drilled for a front disc brake hub that is much smaller in diameter. Simply seat the nipple in the rim and see how it aligns. If it looks like this, you either need to re-machine the rim or replace it with one that is correctly machined for your hub. The spokes in this pic look straight only because they are super loose. When tight, the nipples will all aim like the one I am holding and the spokes would be very obviously curved. I re-cut this rim and it was fine.
 

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You may also find the following of help. On some rims, the area where the extrusion is welded together makes for a rather large hump/recess in the concentricity of the rim. In some cases making it rather severely difficult/frustrating/impossible to true the rim. The tire will actually average out quite a bit of a spot deviation, but I have ended up carving a pretty substantial amount of aluminum from the tires' bead seating surface at the weld to smooth this area out and get a true wheel. Remember, it is the bead seating surface that needs to be true because that is what controls how round and true the tire will be. You need to true the wheel as close as possible and to some degree ignore the welded area first. Don't try to correct the problem by overdoing the spoke tension - you can't tweak the rim enough over such a short span. It looks like your dial indicator is set up at the edge of the flange. It needs to be where the tire sits.
 
Mobius,
Thanks for the reply. I tried to use a countersink tool on the front rim to no avail. But after reading your post I'll have to try it again, I tried to do it without the rim laced so I'll try your method


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