small 2 stroke honda h100 cafe and suzuki gp
- Thread starter manchestermichael
- Start date
Re: small stroker honda h100 cafe
id say that the hubs should be fine... the stress really isnt inbetween the spoke holes.
i was a bit skeptical about that rear drum though... thats a lot of material to take off a part that gets flexed as much as it does.
love the painted brakes... i will be following suit
crazypj said:
id say that the hubs should be fine... the stress really isnt inbetween the spoke holes.
i was a bit skeptical about that rear drum though... thats a lot of material to take off a part that gets flexed as much as it does.
love the painted brakes... i will be following suit
crazypj
Split personality, I fake being smart
Re: small stroker honda h100 cafe
If you look at picture top of page 4, you'll see spokes leave hub at about 40 degree angle.
Originally it was pulling into a 20mm+ section of alloy, now its down to 12~14mm?
Even though the hubs were originally overbuilt, cast aluminium is still pretty brittle, I've seen section break out of a stock hub after hitting pothole (unusual but it does happen)
The radial holes below spoke holes are definite 'race' though and shouldnt weaken hub.
You can see in pics on this page that rear spoke flange didnt get such radical treatment. (manchestermichael, did you file them out?)
Brake plate is cut between ribs so loss in strength there will be minimal, plus, rear brake doesnt need to do much on such a light bike.
Its easy to make/fit internal brace to reduce/prevent flex if required, usually done on front TLS to prevent posts cracking.
Its why I asked if MM is engineering student (or knows one?)
I think if 'every other' was radiused it would still leave spoke 'pairs' with full amount of metal.
I know there's a hell of a lot of work gone into it.
Kudos
BTW, done a hell of a lot of work on GP100/125, (TWS, Bridgend)
you can carve rotary valve to get all sorts of asymmetric intake timing, open crankcase 'hole' fit bigger carb, open/ match ports to case and look for a Micron or Allspeed 'spannie' for it.
PJ.
If you look at picture top of page 4, you'll see spokes leave hub at about 40 degree angle.
Originally it was pulling into a 20mm+ section of alloy, now its down to 12~14mm?
Even though the hubs were originally overbuilt, cast aluminium is still pretty brittle, I've seen section break out of a stock hub after hitting pothole (unusual but it does happen)
The radial holes below spoke holes are definite 'race' though and shouldnt weaken hub.
You can see in pics on this page that rear spoke flange didnt get such radical treatment. (manchestermichael, did you file them out?)
Brake plate is cut between ribs so loss in strength there will be minimal, plus, rear brake doesnt need to do much on such a light bike.
Its easy to make/fit internal brace to reduce/prevent flex if required, usually done on front TLS to prevent posts cracking.
Its why I asked if MM is engineering student (or knows one?)
I think if 'every other' was radiused it would still leave spoke 'pairs' with full amount of metal.
I know there's a hell of a lot of work gone into it.
Kudos
BTW, done a hell of a lot of work on GP100/125, (TWS, Bridgend)
you can carve rotary valve to get all sorts of asymmetric intake timing, open crankcase 'hole' fit bigger carb, open/ match ports to case and look for a Micron or Allspeed 'spannie' for it.
PJ.
manchestermichael
hello
Re: small stroker honda h100 cafe
pj i see what you are saying about the spokes pulling on less alloy never thort of it like that . :-[ but i think i should be ok as the hub flanges are really thick the closer to the hub it gets . there is still lots of meat there and the bike is not going to have super hp motor to stress the spokes,wheels and the hole bike should be vey very light . i thort the hub was really really over built and took as much as i thort was safe but i will keep a close eye on them once its going
i would normally build up the wheels my self but with these will go to a pro to make shure thay are not built over or under stressed.
i set the hubs up in a lathe but was having big trubble geting them to stay still so i used a threaded rod and spacers and nuted it down tight thorugh the axel hole if i run the stock motor i will defo have to look into the disc valve setup as i have never worked on that type of system and i dont really undrestand how it works
on the honda h100 the motor is back out for a full rebuild every seal and bearing replaced i have got the cases matched and the barrel is geting ported even more theres is lots of alloy to remove in the intake area so i can to a honda cr reed block and swop the carb for a much bigger one and i have my eye on a micron pipe to match cant wate to see if i get more power
pj i see what you are saying about the spokes pulling on less alloy never thort of it like that . :-[ but i think i should be ok as the hub flanges are really thick the closer to the hub it gets . there is still lots of meat there and the bike is not going to have super hp motor to stress the spokes,wheels and the hole bike should be vey very light . i thort the hub was really really over built and took as much as i thort was safe but i will keep a close eye on them once its going
i would normally build up the wheels my self but with these will go to a pro to make shure thay are not built over or under stressed.
i set the hubs up in a lathe but was having big trubble geting them to stay still so i used a threaded rod and spacers and nuted it down tight thorugh the axel hole if i run the stock motor i will defo have to look into the disc valve setup as i have never worked on that type of system and i dont really undrestand how it works
on the honda h100 the motor is back out for a full rebuild every seal and bearing replaced i have got the cases matched and the barrel is geting ported even more theres is lots of alloy to remove in the intake area so i can to a honda cr reed block and swop the carb for a much bigger one and i have my eye on a micron pipe to match cant wate to see if i get more power
Big R
Heaven is so far away.
Re: small stroker honda h100 cafe
Let me just say now - I'm not trying to contradict PJ, Rocan, or anybody else. How much does that bike weigh in at? Figure about 150-200 pounds and with you on there it might double it (all guessing). Once you get it running just jam on that back brake a couple of times with no traffic around and maybe a friend supervising. If it shears apart, that sucks. If it doesn't, celebrate!
Let me just say now - I'm not trying to contradict PJ, Rocan, or anybody else. How much does that bike weigh in at? Figure about 150-200 pounds and with you on there it might double it (all guessing). Once you get it running just jam on that back brake a couple of times with no traffic around and maybe a friend supervising. If it shears apart, that sucks. If it doesn't, celebrate!
crazypj
Split personality, I fake being smart
Re: small stroker honda h100 cafe
Its not about weight, it inertia and shock loading.
I feel the rear will be fine, no problem with brake plate and minimal on hub
Its the front that concerns me.
Get well padded up and run it through a couple of potholes at 20mph, if it survives it should be OK on 'smooth' roads.
Disc valve is easy to understand, as piston rises it creats a 'vacuum' in crankcase, set edge of disc so it opens the hole direct to crank. (you can actually measure degrees before BDC)
Its actually better for performance than a reed valve set up (reeds need 'higher' vacuum to open) but, it does make cases a lot wider (becasue carb is mounted sticking out sideways)
This is a 12~14bhp 50cc bike, 170 km is about 106~107mph
You can open up the holes and fit bigger carbs though, should be able to get about double original HP pretty easy
I used to build 80+mph GP125's all the time,('allegedly', wasnt me ossifer ;D)
Is 12bhp learner law still in effect in UK?
PJ
Big R said:
Its not about weight, it inertia and shock loading.
I feel the rear will be fine, no problem with brake plate and minimal on hub
Its the front that concerns me.
Get well padded up and run it through a couple of potholes at 20mph, if it survives it should be OK on 'smooth' roads.
Disc valve is easy to understand, as piston rises it creats a 'vacuum' in crankcase, set edge of disc so it opens the hole direct to crank. (you can actually measure degrees before BDC)
Its actually better for performance than a reed valve set up (reeds need 'higher' vacuum to open) but, it does make cases a lot wider (becasue carb is mounted sticking out sideways)
This is a 12~14bhp 50cc bike, 170 km is about 106~107mph
You can open up the holes and fit bigger carbs though, should be able to get about double original HP pretty easy
I used to build 80+mph GP125's all the time,('allegedly', wasnt me ossifer ;D)
Is 12bhp learner law still in effect in UK?
PJ
boingk
Standard gearhead.
Re: small stroker honda h100 cafe
Love those world record 50cc bikes, insane stuff...love to have one. Then again, probably not.
Cheers - boingk
Love those world record 50cc bikes, insane stuff...love to have one. Then again, probably not.
Go easy on this. I'd recommend going no bigger than a 28mm carb. Thats currently what my 125 is running and it revs out to 11,000rpm. What size is the standard unit? Also, if you remove material from the intake you sacrifice low and midrange power for top end power. It'll have zero response unless your gunning it in the powerband, and this may even cause problems with the stock gearing if you take it too far.
Cheers - boingk
manchestermichael
hello
Re: small stroker honda h100 cafe
that thing is sick just the look i am going for and that motor looks crazzy
if i do fit the ktm motor i should have 50ish bhp i will not be riding this thing on the road maby it might be my start to some tracks and sprints i am going to try and get a bike ready for an event 15 miles from me called the thunder sprint its a super good event and lots of amazing bikes chek out the vids if you have never seen it
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that thing is sick just the look i am going for and that motor looks crazzy
if i do fit the ktm motor i should have 50ish bhp i will not be riding this thing on the road maby it might be my start to some tracks and sprints i am going to try and get a bike ready for an event 15 miles from me called the thunder sprint its a super good event and lots of amazing bikes chek out the vids if you have never seen it <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WHQAOxGtWXA&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WHQAOxGtWXA&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
manchestermichael
hello
Re: small stroker honda h100 cafe
yea the limmit is still 14bhp uk but as long as its no higher than a 125cc it dont really matter as the police never no and thay dont really cair as long as your not riding like a fool
as for the carb thats for the honda h100 that i have finished but i am going for moor power from the motor
i had the motor ported when i stripted it but only a small port and rebored,
now striping it agn i am going crazzy on it full bottom end ,cases matched ,head skimmed , ports opened, the reed block and intake on the h100 are really restrictive single reed , i have read that honda cr80 mx reed block will work with lots of work : then i can chose a nice carb set up so it all works with each outher and as for the gear box the stock h100 is a 5 speed and really under geared i am looking for a cr80 six speed box to fit i think i should make anouther build log for the suzuki gp to keep thinks on track
yea the limmit is still 14bhp uk but as long as its no higher than a 125cc it dont really matter as the police never no and thay dont really cair as long as your not riding like a fool
as for the carb thats for the honda h100 that i have finished but i am going for moor power from the motor
i had the motor ported when i stripted it but only a small port and rebored,
now striping it agn i am going crazzy on it full bottom end ,cases matched ,head skimmed , ports opened, the reed block and intake on the h100 are really restrictive single reed , i have read that honda cr80 mx reed block will work with lots of work :
then i can chose a nice carb set up so it all works with each outher and as for the gear box the stock h100 is a 5 speed and really under geared i am looking for a cr80 six speed box to fit i think i should make anouther build log for the suzuki gp to keep thinks on track
crazypj
Split personality, I fake being smart
Re: small stroker honda h100 cafe
While you have cases split, fit cylinder to one half at a time and take a look at transfer port match.
You may need a little work on case.
With a rotary valve you can get a bit stupid with carb sizes and porting because there is a real strong pulse when port opens Better than a fourstroke valve opening (takes time to get to full open and time to get closed) and way better than reed motor-its either open or closed with virtually no transition.
Piston port has same effect but that has symmetrical timing, rotory valve is asymmetrical, you can decide where it opens and where it closes by cutting leading/trailing edge.
PJ
While you have cases split, fit cylinder to one half at a time and take a look at transfer port match.
You may need a little work on case.
With a rotary valve you can get a bit stupid with carb sizes and porting because there is a real strong pulse when port opens Better than a fourstroke valve opening (takes time to get to full open and time to get closed) and way better than reed motor-its either open or closed with virtually no transition.
Piston port has same effect but that has symmetrical timing, rotory valve is asymmetrical, you can decide where it opens and where it closes by cutting leading/trailing edge.
PJ
boingk
Standard gearhead.
Re: small stroker honda h100 cafe
Geez, sounds like you've done some good work to it! Around here they're used in the lowest class of motorcycle racing 'bucket racing' (derived from the term "bucket 'o sh!t"), officially called the motolite and superlite classes. They're favoured for their head design as it has very good cooling fins, and are reasonably reliable up to around 20hp. I've heard of a guy who used his fully kitted 17hp H100 as a daily ride! Apparently 30hp is doable if you're willing to pay frequent attention to it
Anyway, hope it goes well with the whole thing, love seeing this come together as its a bit of a dream for me to have one of these and then get it on the track.
Cheers - boingk
Geez, sounds like you've done some good work to it! Around here they're used in the lowest class of motorcycle racing 'bucket racing' (derived from the term "bucket 'o sh!t"), officially called the motolite and superlite classes. They're favoured for their head design as it has very good cooling fins, and are reasonably reliable up to around 20hp. I've heard of a guy who used his fully kitted 17hp H100 as a daily ride! Apparently 30hp is doable if you're willing to pay frequent attention to it
Anyway, hope it goes well with the whole thing, love seeing this come together as its a bit of a dream for me to have one of these and then get it on the track.
Cheers - boingk
H100
what i'm starting with..... stay tuned!
Re: small stroker honda h100 cafe
awesome to see an h100 getting the racer treatment.
i've just got hold of an australian delivered one (i'm in oz) that's a 5 speed. only 4,600k from new, running and rideable for $400! stoked with that.
will be doing the racer look with it too.
well done!!!
awesome to see an h100 getting the racer treatment.
i've just got hold of an australian delivered one (i'm in oz) that's a 5 speed. only 4,600k from new, running and rideable for $400! stoked with that.
will be doing the racer look with it too.
well done!!!
Re: small stroker honda h100 cafe
This is a very nice bike. i like what youve done with it. i have recently bought a h100 and plan on doing the same to it. i noticed that you bought your clip on bars from ebay relatively cheap but ive been looking all over ebay and the internet and cant find any that will fit =/
This is a very nice bike. i like what youve done with it. i have recently bought a h100 and plan on doing the same to it. i noticed that you bought your clip on bars from ebay relatively cheap but ive been looking all over ebay and the internet and cant find any that will fit =/
manchestermichael
hello
Re: small stroker honda h100 cafe
yea i think i got a one off with the clip ons on ebay :-\ but theres losts of 30mm ones on there you could just make a small 2mm shim or i have a link ill dig out that a place that sells them but thay are about $80 witch is a bit steep .post a pic up of yours.....
i just picked up anouther gr8 part a chamber from a gp125 this is a race pipe so no baffels so is going to be super loud so might have to make a baffle with packing and its about 90% lighter thank stock and only £17 posted anouther gr8 fined ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
yea i think i got a one off with the clip ons on ebay
:-\ but theres losts of 30mm ones on there you could just make a small 2mm shim or i have a link ill dig out that a place that sells them but thay are about $80 witch is a bit steep .post a pic up of yours.....i just picked up anouther gr8 part a chamber from a gp125 this is a race pipe so no baffels so is going to be super loud so might have to make a baffle with packing and its about 90% lighter thank stock and only £17 posted anouther gr8 fined ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
boingk
Standard gearhead.
Re: small stroker honda h100 cafe
Nice find with the pipe, but if thats not running an external skin then that stinger is in-freakin'-sane! Like...it'll be more than loud, they'll hear you across the Channel!
Be very interested to see how that goes when you fit it.
Cheers - boingk
Nice find with the pipe, but if thats not running an external skin then that stinger is in-freakin'-sane! Like...it'll be more than loud, they'll hear you across the Channel!
Be very interested to see how that goes when you fit it.
Cheers - boingk
manchestermichael
hello
Re: small stroker honda h100 cafe
haha i no i think it will be crazzy but most of the rear of the pipe is open so i can just stick in a baffle with lots of packing witch i hope should quiet it down cant wate to try it out just wating on my modded motor to get finished but i am in no ruch to ride it on the roads as its way to cold and icey now 
and still looking for a front ends set up so i can get my alloy wheels on
haha i no i think it will be crazzy
but most of the rear of the pipe is open so i can just stick in a baffle with lots of packing witch i hope should quiet it down cant wate to try it out just wating on my modded motor to get finished but i am in no ruch to ride it on the roads as its way to cold and icey now and still looking for a front ends set up so i can get my alloy wheels on 
